Good luck with the sale Paul! Can’t wait to see the Rosco builds to come. 
Another cool looking bike!

On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 1:19:24 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Correctumundo, the shortest Clems in both styles have the bendy seatstays 
> on the smaller sizes, the H went through at least (I think only) two 
> incarnations. The big difference now when looking at used H and L bikes is 
> the newer Ls are markedly stretched in comparison to any H you will find. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 1:15:13 PM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I’m not at all sure, but I think the H had at least one run with the new 
>> longer geo in 2019. It has more cream accents than the older ones is the 
>> only other thing I have noticed. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 9:48:41 AM UTC-7 Paul Choi wrote:
>>
>>> This might be premature but I have a FFHS 52 Clem H in Grilver that I 
>>> will be selling once my Roscoe comes in. I bought the bike last year from 
>>> the original owner. It has some damage to the drive side chainstay and 
>>> outside of the bottom bracket. The touch up job was very low quality. I 
>>> didn't care about the cosmetic issues. I think the damage was due to the 
>>> chain falling off and then some pedaling. I can provide photos if someone 
>>> is interested and will post an official FS later if there is no interest 
>>> now. I think this bike was purchased from RBW back in 2019. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:27:31 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... but i I guess I still don't know that short Hs were ever produced 
>>>> again, after the Ls got longer.  This chart may have just included the 
>>>> then-defunct H for reference or aspirational purposes.
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 9:21:18 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I stand corrected.  Here's a geomety chart from the archive that 
>>>>> DOES simultaneously show the shorter H and the longer L.  
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20200413014654/https://www.rivbike.com/pages/geometry
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:20:47 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's interesting.  I'd  put my money on Eric being right and bike 
>>>>>> insights being wrong.  The wayback machine internet archive should hold 
>>>>>> the 
>>>>>> answers.  The Hs didn't last all that long before they decided to just 
>>>>>> do 
>>>>>> Ls.  They may even have dropped the upper bar an H version BECAUSE they 
>>>>>> wanted to lengthen them, and maybe something got whacky with the 
>>>>>> proportions or angles.  I remember that we were all surprised to learn 
>>>>>> that 
>>>>>> they'd gotten longer, so it wasn't talked about in the typical, public 
>>>>>> way 
>>>>>> that ,say, the decision to drop the clementine name was.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 1:06:21 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for the messages Dustin and John! I love that mustard 
>>>>>>> color and would have liked to find one in it. I did pick up the one but 
>>>>>>> don’t know the exact year. It is supposed to be here Friday! 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eric, when I looked on bike insights it showed the fork rake and 
>>>>>>> head tube angle being the main difference on the two. Steeper by about 
>>>>>>> 2 
>>>>>>> degrees on the H I think with less rake. Trail numbers are still very 
>>>>>>> similar though. It would be fun to spend a weekend riding both on the 
>>>>>>> same 
>>>>>>> paths and trails to decide!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 11:01:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, 
>>>>>>>> but I always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model 
>>>>>>>> years. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eric 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson <johnemer...@gmail.com> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed 
>>>>>>>>> right away there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, 
>>>>>>>>> longer front center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube 
>>>>>>>>> length means bars fit differently, stem lengths will need to be 
>>>>>>>>> adapted, 
>>>>>>>>> etc. This is not insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful: 
>>>>>>>>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16
>>>>>>>>> ,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L 
>>>>>>>>> so I sold the H and bought an L.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being 
>>>>>>>>> a bit stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what 
>>>>>>>>> you're 
>>>>>>>>> looking for.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> cheers,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like 
>>>>>>>>>> the idea of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up 
>>>>>>>>>> while 
>>>>>>>>>> pulling my daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting 
>>>>>>>>>> a leg 
>>>>>>>>>> over but sometimes it could be a benefit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 5:59:11 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have an “L” and I do notice the flex when loaded - but only 
>>>>>>>>>>> standing still or just “pushing off”. Once moving the flex 
>>>>>>>>>>> disappears. Of 
>>>>>>>>>>> course any frame bags you might have are useless on the “L”. So I 
>>>>>>>>>>> sold mine 
>>>>>>>>>>> & have invested in traditional racks & bags. It’s all been worth it 
>>>>>>>>>>> though 
>>>>>>>>>>> as the step through is my favorite feature of the many features I 
>>>>>>>>>>> love 
>>>>>>>>>>> about this bike. Not saying don’t get the “H”, but the “L” is just 
>>>>>>>>>>> so nice.
>>>>>>>>>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> 
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's basically the same, just a little stiffer. The L has a 
>>>>>>>>>>> smidge of flex in the frame that shows up if you load a bunch of 
>>>>>>>>>>> weight on 
>>>>>>>>>>> it (some folks I've mentioned this to say they don't notice it, 
>>>>>>>>>>> YRMV). Grab 
>>>>>>>>>>> that H, it's a good frame! 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 9:02:34 AM UTC-7 
>>>>>>>>>>> fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I just finished my Susie build (first Riv) and I have never 
>>>>>>>>>>>> ridden a bike like it. It brings comfort and riding enjoyment to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> an all 
>>>>>>>>>>>> time high for me! I do however find it to be almost too nice! 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was interested in waiting for a Clem L to come back in stock 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to use as my grocery getter/winter bike to keep fenders on and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> haul more 
>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff. I found a Clem H for sale that I’m interested in though so 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was 
>>>>>>>>>>>> hoping for some opinions about the differences here! From what I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> can tell, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the H just has a sleeper head tube angle and everything else seems 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>> about the same. Do they ride similar? The H is a better deal as 
>>>>>>>>>>>> far as 
>>>>>>>>>>>> parts go than a complete. I’m also almost certain the complete 
>>>>>>>>>>>> will get a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> decent price bump on the next run. The step thru is cool but not a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> huge 
>>>>>>>>>>>> deal for me. Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>  
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>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>

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