I think there are too many unknowns here. All we get to do is look at the finished frame and speculate as to the quality we cant see. We don't get to see the tubes being mitered, prepped, brazed or anything else until it is done. We don't know the brazers or the amount of time they spend on each frame. I have no idea if the brazers at Toyo are as good as the brazers at Waterford and how those compare to the Maxway guys. Does anyone besides GP? So I take Riv's word that they are all good. Sure my Bleriot is not as fancy as my wife's Ram but there is no quality difference I can see and I have inspected the both pretty closely. Are the lugs less fancy? Is the paint not quite as nicely done? Yes and yes but I dont see those as quality differences in terms of how well the bike is built. I do feel like there is value in buying US made things, but after that it doesnt matter to me if they are made in Japan or Taiwan. I think that someone in Taiwan can braze just as well as someone in Japan who can braze just as well as someone in the US. I think Rivendell oversold the fact that their frames were made at Toyo and are having to overcome the idea that frames from other places (excluding Waterfrod/US) are inferior.
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