HellermannTyton has a free solar sample pack with various UV stable cable ties, stainless ties, labels, etc. I got my vendor to send one and from that ordered a bunch of useful items.
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Benn At DayStarSolar <b...@daystarsolar.ca>wrote: > SS cable ties for ~.33/ea > http://electricalwireties.com > > benn > Sent from a 'smart' phone, with touch screen keys. Please excuse shortcuts > and typos. > > On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Ray Walters <r...@solarray.com> wrote: > > Where are you buying them from? I am so ready to move away from plastic > zip ties. 59 cents is quite a bit, but that's actually doable. Last time > I looked at SS ties, they were a couple bucks each. > > Thanks, > > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760 > > On 11/14/2013 9:41 AM, Kirpal Khalsa wrote: > > Bill.....we have been using the Hellerman Tyton Sunbundler cable > ties....They are braided stainless steel wire with a UV resistant vinyl > jacket....We have been getting them in quantities of 500 for approximately > $.59 each....for the 12" length ties....We like them alot....they do not > have any sharp edges and are easy to install.... > Hope that helps.... > > > Sunny Regards, > Kirpal Khalsa > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Renewable Energy Systems > www.oregonsolarworks.com > 541-218-0201 m > 541-592-3958 o > > > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 7:46 AM, frenergy <frene...@psln.com> wrote: > >> William, Bill....from another Bill, >> >> Two things: For the rest of us (maybe it's just me?!) that's >> still trying to figure out how (or why) to stuff a MC4 connector into >> conduit and my hesitation in using SS wire ties for fear of the sharp edges >> cutting or chaffing into cables, I'm open for advice. Any wire I use on the >> roof is rated for that type of service and I have some off-grid systems >> that have been in the sun for some 25 years where the wire still looks >> nearly new even when flexing it to look for checking/cracks. It seems >> the wire/insulation can take it, thus it seems like the key to "wire >> management is to keep the wire from moving and off the roof, secured to the >> racking, thus not compromising the insulation. >> >> I know many on this list are way past this point in their >> installation skills. However my living in a county in the bush of just 20K >> folks, I haven't had the opportunity to install 100's of systems....yet. >> Again, I express my humble appreciation of experienced wrenches to help >> those of us working to install the tightest systems possible despite living >> in the boonies. >> >> Details on where to source appropriate SS wire ties (rounded >> edges?, plastic coated?) would be appreciated. My goto place for such >> things (Grainger) has "regular" SS wire ties that range from $1.50 to $3 >> each, but none that I can see that address the sharp edge issue...or is >> that an issue? Have people been using regular SS wire ties in the field >> for 10-20 years, behind a roof mounted array without any issues related to >> the wire ties? >> Thanks for your help and patience, >> >> Bill >> >> Feather River Solar Electric >> 4291 Nelson St. >> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >> 530.284.7849 / 6544 fax >> "solar powered since 1982" >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bill Loesch" <solar1onl...@charter.net> >> To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 1:34 AM >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Wiring methods >> >> > >> > Hi William (and any other person who wishes to describe themselves as >> > professional (designer, installer, etc.)), >> > >> > Please accept this note as confirmation that your evangelism on wire >> > management has not fallen on entirely deaf ears. >> > >> > Additionally, I'm curious how the practice of requiring a ten year >> > equipment warranty squares with the acceptance of plastic wire ties. >> > >> > Sincere thanks from one convert, >> > >> > Bill Loesch >> > Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 3:41 PM, William Miller wrote: >> > >> >> Bill: >> >> >> >> >> >> I respectfully disagree with your logic: Define "perfectly >> >> installed." If >> >> your connections are tight and permanent and the conductors are >> >> protected >> >> from damage, you have a great chance of a reliable, safe lifetime of >> >> service. How can you guarantee that your leads will stay protected >> >> after >> >> the ties fail? Studies show that even UV resistant wire ties will >> >> fail well >> >> before the life expectancy of the system has expired. When the ties >> >> fail, >> >> your PV leads are hanging on the roof. Even before the ties fail, >> >> rodents >> >> can chew on them. Conduit was invented for a reason and we should be >> >> using >> >> it. >> >> >> >> >> >> I agree that arc-fault breakers will improve the situation, but I >> >> don't >> >> think any form of OCPD is a substitute for good wiring practices. I >> >> think >> >> wire protection is just as important on PV circuits as it is on any >> >> other >> >> high voltage circuit. Try getting away with wiring a rooftop air >> >> conditioning unit by tying the conductors to some metal framework with >> >> plastic ties and see how long it takes to get red-tagged by your local >> >> inspector. >> >> >> >> >> >> I suspect we've gotten to where we are on lax wire protection >> >> standards for >> >> two reasons: >> >> >> >> 1. In the early days, PV was low voltage, 12 to 24 volts, and was >> >> treated >> >> as such, even though current capabilities exceeded that of >> >> conventional low >> >> voltage thermostat, door-bell and telephone wiring. >> >> >> >> 2. It is my understanding that PV wiring standards in Europe are >> >> not >> >> stringent, and European demand drove the PV market for many years. >> >> Products >> >> were built to satisfy the European market and US standards had to work >> >> with >> >> the equipment available. >> >> >> >> >> >> Some would say: "if it is under the array, it is protected." We have >> >> seen >> >> PV wire getting damaged under arrays and it is possible to get damaged >> >> under >> >> BPIV components as well. I believe that protecting PV wire is more >> >> important than protecting conventional AC circuit wiring because PV >> >> circuits >> >> are more prone to create and sustain arcing. >> >> >> >> >> >> Some say that protecting PV wire in conduits will add too much expense >> >> to PV >> >> installations. Consider the cost of fires and, inevitably, injuries >> >> and >> >> deaths. One news story about an obscure, rarely used product is >> >> already >> >> causing many of us headaches. Statistically, it is inevitable that >> >> more >> >> accidents will happen. I don't want that on my conscience. >> >> >> >> >> >> I would suggest that we need to expand the discussion beyond fire >> >> hazards. >> >> I also worry about electrocution hazards in high voltage PV circuits. >> >> Good >> >> wire protection is essential in preventing contact with high voltages. >> >> >> >> >> >> Unprotected PV wiring is an irresponsible practice. I am fighting an >> >> uphill >> >> battle to develops methods to protect PV wiring because the industry >> >> is not >> >> helping at all. The trend has been to make it harder to protect >> >> wiring. >> >> This trend will result in accidents. I think we should do better. >> >> >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> >> >> >> William Miller >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill >> >> Brooks >> >> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:38 PM >> >> To: 'RE-wrenches' >> >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 6, Issue 423 >> >> >> >> >> >> William and David, >> >> >> >> >> >> This particular problem goes away with arc fault detection. The longer >> >> we >> >> wait to introduce arc fault detection into our systems, the more we >> >> will >> >> have opportunities for news reports such as the one William brings >> >> forward. >> >> Wire ties are not the problem. Could a wire tie cause a problem-sure, >> >> just >> >> like anything improperly installed. >> >> >> >> >> >> At the end of the day, you can a have a perfectly installed system, >> >> but if >> >> it does not have arc fault detection and high resolution ground fault >> >> detection, it can still catch on fire. You have no control over >> >> product >> >> failures other than buying from large companies that can actually >> >> insure >> >> their products in a failure. >> >> >> >> >> >> Fires are not that common, but it didn't tak >> > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd www.cometenergysystems.com Cell: 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts
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