We buy from Waytek Wire, about $0.33 each for stainless. http://tinyurl.com/k32wwbx
Larry Crutcher (928) 342-9103 www.starlightsolar.com la...@starlightsolar.com Retail Store & Warehouse 2998 Shari Ave. Yuma, Az 85365 USPS Postal Mail Only 11881 S Fortuna Road, #210 Yuma, AZ 85367 On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Ray Walters <r...@solarray.com> wrote: Where are you buying them from? I am so ready to move away from plastic zip ties. 59 cents is quite a bit, but that's actually doable. Last time I looked at SS ties, they were a couple bucks each. Thanks, R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 11/14/2013 9:41 AM, Kirpal Khalsa wrote: > Bill.....we have been using the Hellerman Tyton Sunbundler cable ties....They > are braided stainless steel wire with a UV resistant vinyl jacket....We have > been getting them in quantities of 500 for approximately $.59 each....for the > 12" length ties....We like them alot....they do not have any sharp edges and > are easy to install.... > Hope that helps.... > > > Sunny Regards, > Kirpal Khalsa > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Renewable Energy Systems > www.oregonsolarworks.com > 541-218-0201 m > 541-592-3958 o > > > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 7:46 AM, frenergy <frene...@psln.com> wrote: > William, Bill....from another Bill, > > Two things: For the rest of us (maybe it's just me?!) that's still > trying to figure out how (or why) to stuff a MC4 connector into conduit and > my hesitation in using SS wire ties for fear of the sharp edges cutting or > chaffing into cables, I'm open for advice. Any wire I use on the roof is > rated for that type of service and I have some off-grid systems that have > been in the sun for some 25 years where the wire still looks nearly new even > when flexing it to look for checking/cracks. It seems the wire/insulation > can take it, thus it seems like the key to "wire management is to keep the > wire from moving and off the roof, secured to the racking, thus not > compromising the insulation. > > I know many on this list are way past this point in their > installation skills. However my living in a county in the bush of just 20K > folks, I haven't had the opportunity to install 100's of systems....yet. > Again, I express my humble appreciation of experienced wrenches to help those > of us working to install the tightest systems possible despite living in the > boonies. > > Details on where to source appropriate SS wire ties (rounded edges?, > plastic coated?) would be appreciated. My goto place for such things > (Grainger) has "regular" SS wire ties that range from $1.50 to $3 each, but > none that I can see that address the sharp edge issue...or is that an issue? > Have people been using regular SS wire ties in the field for 10-20 years, > behind a roof mounted array without any issues related to the wire ties? > Thanks for your help and patience, > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 / 6544 fax > "solar powered since 1982" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Loesch" <solar1onl...@charter.net> > To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 1:34 AM > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Wiring methods > > > > > Hi William (and any other person who wishes to describe themselves as > > professional (designer, installer, etc.)), > > > > Please accept this note as confirmation that your evangelism on wire > > management has not fallen on entirely deaf ears. > > > > Additionally, I'm curious how the practice of requiring a ten year > > equipment warranty squares with the acceptance of plastic wire ties. > > > > Sincere thanks from one convert, > > > > Bill Loesch > > Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 3:41 PM, William Miller wrote: > > > >> Bill: > >> > >> > >> I respectfully disagree with your logic: Define "perfectly > >> installed." If > >> your connections are tight and permanent and the conductors are > >> protected > >> from damage, you have a great chance of a reliable, safe lifetime of > >> service. How can you guarantee that your leads will stay protected > >> after > >> the ties fail? Studies show that even UV resistant wire ties will > >> fail well > >> before the life expectancy of the system has expired. When the ties > >> fail, > >> your PV leads are hanging on the roof. Even before the ties fail, > >> rodents > >> can chew on them. Conduit was invented for a reason and we should be > >> using > >> it. > >> > >> > >> I agree that arc-fault breakers will improve the situation, but I > >> don't > >> think any form of OCPD is a substitute for good wiring practices. I > >> think > >> wire protection is just as important on PV circuits as it is on any > >> other > >> high voltage circuit. Try getting away with wiring a rooftop air > >> conditioning unit by tying the conductors to some metal framework with > >> plastic ties and see how long it takes to get red-tagged by your local > >> inspector. > >> > >> > >> I suspect we've gotten to where we are on lax wire protection > >> standards for > >> two reasons: > >> > >> 1. In the early days, PV was low voltage, 12 to 24 volts, and was > >> treated > >> as such, even though current capabilities exceeded that of > >> conventional low > >> voltage thermostat, door-bell and telephone wiring. > >> > >> 2. It is my understanding that PV wiring standards in Europe are > >> not > >> stringent, and European demand drove the PV market for many years. > >> Products > >> were built to satisfy the European market and US standards had to work > >> with > >> the equipment available. > >> > >> > >> Some would say: "if it is under the array, it is protected." We have > >> seen > >> PV wire getting damaged under arrays and it is possible to get damaged > >> under > >> BPIV components as well. I believe that protecting PV wire is more > >> important than protecting conventional AC circuit wiring because PV > >> circuits > >> are more prone to create and sustain arcing. > >> > >> > >> Some say that protecting PV wire in conduits will add too much expense > >> to PV > >> installations. Consider the cost of fires and, inevitably, injuries > >> and > >> deaths. One news story about an obscure, rarely used product is > >> already > >> causing many of us headaches. Statistically, it is inevitable that > >> more > >> accidents will happen. I don't want that on my conscience. > >> > >> > >> I would suggest that we need to expand the discussion beyond fire > >> hazards. > >> I also worry about electrocution hazards in high voltage PV circuits. > >> Good > >> wire protection is essential in preventing contact with high voltages. > >> > >> > >> Unprotected PV wiring is an irresponsible practice. I am fighting an > >> uphill > >> battle to develops methods to protect PV wiring because the industry > >> is not > >> helping at all. The trend has been to make it harder to protect > >> wiring. > >> This trend will result in accidents. I think we should do better. > >> > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> > >> > >> William Miller > >> > >> > >> > >> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > >> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill > >> Brooks > >> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:38 PM > >> To: 'RE-wrenches' > >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 6, Issue 423 > >> > >> > >> William and David, > >> > >> > >> This particular problem goes away with arc fault detection. The longer > >> we > >> wait to introduce arc fault detection into our systems, the more we > >> will > >> have opportunities for news reports such as the one William brings > >> forward. > >> Wire ties are not the problem. Could a wire tie cause a problem-sure, > >> just > >> like anything improperly installed. > >> > >> > >> At the end of the day, you can a have a perfectly installed system, > >> but if > >> it does not have arc fault detection and high resolution ground fault > >> detection, it can still catch on fire. You have no control over > >> product > >> failures other than buying from large companies that can actually > >> insure > >> their products in a failure. > >> > >> > >> Fires are not that common, but it didn't take much to get all the > >> viewers of > >> this news report up in arms did it? > >> > >> > >> Bill. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >> > >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> Change email address & settings: > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List-Archive: > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List rules & etiquette: > >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >> > >> Check out participant bios: > >> www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
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