SS cable ties for ~.33/ea http://electricalwireties.com
benn Sent from a 'smart' phone, with touch screen keys. Please excuse shortcuts and typos. > On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Ray Walters <r...@solarray.com> wrote: > > Where are you buying them from? I am so ready to move away from plastic zip > ties. 59 cents is quite a bit, but that's actually doable. Last time I > looked at SS ties, they were a couple bucks each. > > Thanks, > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > On 11/14/2013 9:41 AM, Kirpal Khalsa wrote: >> Bill.....we have been using the Hellerman Tyton Sunbundler cable >> ties....They are braided stainless steel wire with a UV resistant vinyl >> jacket....We have been getting them in quantities of 500 for approximately >> $.59 each....for the 12" length ties....We like them alot....they do not >> have any sharp edges and are easy to install.... >> Hope that helps.... >> >> >> Sunny Regards, >> Kirpal Khalsa >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >> Renewable Energy Systems >> www.oregonsolarworks.com >> 541-218-0201 m >> 541-592-3958 o >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 7:46 AM, frenergy <frene...@psln.com> wrote: >>> William, Bill....from another Bill, >>> >>> Two things: For the rest of us (maybe it's just me?!) that's still >>> trying to figure out how (or why) to stuff a MC4 connector into conduit and >>> my hesitation in using SS wire ties for fear of the sharp edges cutting or >>> chaffing into cables, I'm open for advice. Any wire I use on the roof is >>> rated for that type of service and I have some off-grid systems that have >>> been in the sun for some 25 years where the wire still looks nearly new >>> even when flexing it to look for checking/cracks. It seems the >>> wire/insulation can take it, thus it seems like the key to "wire management >>> is to keep the wire from moving and off the roof, secured to the racking, >>> thus not compromising the insulation. >>> >>> I know many on this list are way past this point in their >>> installation skills. However my living in a county in the bush of just 20K >>> folks, I haven't had the opportunity to install 100's of systems....yet. >>> Again, I express my humble appreciation of experienced wrenches to help >>> those of us working to install the tightest systems possible despite living >>> in the boonies. >>> >>> Details on where to source appropriate SS wire ties (rounded >>> edges?, plastic coated?) would be appreciated. My goto place for such >>> things (Grainger) has "regular" SS wire ties that range from $1.50 to $3 >>> each, but none that I can see that address the sharp edge issue...or is >>> that an issue? Have people been using regular SS wire ties in the field >>> for 10-20 years, behind a roof mounted array without any issues related to >>> the wire ties? >>> Thanks for your help and patience, >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> Feather River Solar Electric >>> 4291 Nelson St. >>> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >>> 530.284.7849 / 6544 fax >>> "solar powered since 1982" >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Bill Loesch" <solar1onl...@charter.net> >>> To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 1:34 AM >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Wiring methods >>> >>> > >>> > Hi William (and any other person who wishes to describe themselves as >>> > professional (designer, installer, etc.)), >>> > >>> > Please accept this note as confirmation that your evangelism on wire >>> > management has not fallen on entirely deaf ears. >>> > >>> > Additionally, I'm curious how the practice of requiring a ten year >>> > equipment warranty squares with the acceptance of plastic wire ties. >>> > >>> > Sincere thanks from one convert, >>> > >>> > Bill Loesch >>> > Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 3:41 PM, William Miller wrote: >>> > >>> >> Bill: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> I respectfully disagree with your logic: Define "perfectly >>> >> installed." If >>> >> your connections are tight and permanent and the conductors are >>> >> protected >>> >> from damage, you have a great chance of a reliable, safe lifetime of >>> >> service. How can you guarantee that your leads will stay protected >>> >> after >>> >> the ties fail? Studies show that even UV resistant wire ties will >>> >> fail well >>> >> before the life expectancy of the system has expired. When the ties >>> >> fail, >>> >> your PV leads are hanging on the roof. Even before the ties fail, >>> >> rodents >>> >> can chew on them. Conduit was invented for a reason and we should be >>> >> using >>> >> it. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> I agree that arc-fault breakers will improve the situation, but I >>> >> don't >>> >> think any form of OCPD is a substitute for good wiring practices. I >>> >> think >>> >> wire protection is just as important on PV circuits as it is on any >>> >> other >>> >> high voltage circuit. Try getting away with wiring a rooftop air >>> >> conditioning unit by tying the conductors to some metal framework with >>> >> plastic ties and see how long it takes to get red-tagged by your local >>> >> inspector. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> I suspect we've gotten to where we are on lax wire protection >>> >> standards for >>> >> two reasons: >>> >> >>> >> 1. In the early days, PV was low voltage, 12 to 24 volts, and was >>> >> treated >>> >> as such, even though current capabilities exceeded that of >>> >> conventional low >>> >> voltage thermostat, door-bell and telephone wiring. >>> >> >>> >> 2. It is my understanding that PV wiring standards in Europe are >>> >> not >>> >> stringent, and European demand drove the PV market for many years. >>> >> Products >>> >> were built to satisfy the European market and US standards had to work >>> >> with >>> >> the equipment available. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Some would say: "if it is under the array, it is protected." We have >>> >> seen >>> >> PV wire getting damaged under arrays and it is possible to get damaged >>> >> under >>> >> BPIV components as well. I believe that protecting PV wire is more >>> >> important than protecting conventional AC circuit wiring because PV >>> >> circuits >>> >> are more prone to create and sustain arcing. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Some say that protecting PV wire in conduits will add too much expense >>> >> to PV >>> >> installations. Consider the cost of fires and, inevitably, injuries >>> >> and >>> >> deaths. One news story about an obscure, rarely used product is >>> >> already >>> >> causing many of us headaches. Statistically, it is inevitable that >>> >> more >>> >> accidents will happen. I don't want that on my conscience. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> I would suggest that we need to expand the discussion beyond fire >>> >> hazards. >>> >> I also worry about electrocution hazards in high voltage PV circuits. >>> >> Good >>> >> wire protection is essential in preventing contact with high voltages. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Unprotected PV wiring is an irresponsible practice. I am fighting an >>> >> uphill >>> >> battle to develops methods to protect PV wiring because the industry >>> >> is not >>> >> helping at all. The trend has been to make it harder to protect >>> >> wiring. >>> >> This trend will result in accidents. I think we should do better. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Sincerely, >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> William Miller >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill >>> >> Brooks >>> >> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:38 PM >>> >> To: 'RE-wrenches' >>> >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 6, Issue 423 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> William and David, >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> This particular problem goes away with arc fault detection. The longer >>> >> we >>> >> wait to introduce arc fault detection into our systems, the more we >>> >> will >>> >> have opportunities for news reports such as the one William brings >>> >> forward. >>> >> Wire ties are not the problem. Could a wire tie cause a problem-sure, >>> >> just >>> >> like anything improperly installed. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> At the end of the day, you can a have a perfectly installed system, >>> >> but if >>> >> it does not have arc fault detection and high resolution ground fault >>> >> detection, it can still catch on fire. You have no control over >>> >> product >>> >> failures other than buying from large companies that can actually >>> >> insure >>> >> their products in a failure. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Fires are not that common, but it didn't tak > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
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