Hi Jeff, AES doesn’t list cycles, just the 38 MWh/10 yr warranty of which you can back calculate cycles which works out to around 1.5 per day per 10 years.
jay peltz power > On Aug 11, 2020, at 11:30 AM, Jeff Clearwater <je...@villagepowerdesign.com> > wrote: > > Hey All, > > Great Thread - so does anyone have the missing cycle life information for the > Discover AES and Fortress Eflex below? > > Discover AES (42-48-6650) (Spec sheet does not list cycles) (but does give > 38MWh warranty > see analysis sheet here: > https://aeesolar.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/DISCOVER-AES-The-AES-LiFePO-Battery-Solar-Off-grid-Advantage-20190124-AEE.pdf > > <https://aeesolar.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/DISCOVER-AES-The-AES-LiFePO-Battery-Solar-Off-grid-Advantage-20190124-AEE.pdf> > > that sheet says "With a designed DOD of 50% lead-acid batteries are expected > to last ~1500 cycles or 4 Years of daily cycling. With the Discover AES 10 > Year 38 MWh Warranty, you’ll be half way into your 3rd Set of lead-acid > batteries." > > That would imply 5250 cycles under warranty - but surely it has more in it > than that for an expensive LFP! Can't find a reference anywhere. 38 > MWH/6.65 KWH = 5700 cycles - their own spreadsheet says "Cycle Life (@DOD > rating): NA" Impressive warranty but how much past the warranty they don't > seem to want to venture. It's the most expensive of the options listed here > (well comparable to BI) and comes with highest quality recommendation and has > great closed loop communications - but would love to know the top end cycle > figure. > > Fortress EVault (18KWH) (Spec sheet says 6000) > Fortress EFlex (5.4 KWH) ( Spec sheet does not list cycles) > Simpliphi 3.8 (spec sheet says 10,000+ @ 80%) > Blue Ion 2.0 spec sheet says 8000 @ 100% DOD > Does anyone know why Simpliphi and BI an claim such high cycle life whereas > Fortress says 6000 and AES won't venture it? same chemistry? so is Fortress > underselling or the other folks over selling? > > Has anyone even seen a curve of cycle life vs. DOD for LFP? or is that not > so much a curve as a flat line? > > thanks! > > Jeff > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > VillageLab > Village Power Design > www.villagelab.net <http://www.villagelab.net/> > www.villagepowerdesign.com <http://www.villagepowerdesign.com/> > cell - 413-559-9763 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > Richard Scott wrote on 8/11/20 10:35 AM: >> Also keep in mind that the battery charge/discharge efficiency is much >> higher for lithium batteries compared to lead acid. >> >> Richard >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 8:17 AM Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com >> <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> Hi William, >> >> I dont do the math based on up front kwh cost, but on lifetime kWh based on >> the number of cycles per average DOD that are going to be used. I use this >> same formula to compare all batteries to each other. >> >> Jay >> >> Peltz power. >> >> For example, a Rolls L16 ex has 3500 cycles at 50% DOD, and it’s a 371 amp >> hr at 6v or 2.226 kWh >> Retail is $400 >> >> 3500 cycles x 1.1 kWh At 50 DOD=3850 kWh >> $400 / 3850 kWh = $.10 kWh >> 10 years of 50% cycling daily >> >> Compared to say a mid grade US battery, 1400 cycles to 50%, 400 amp hr. 2.4 >> kWh >> $325/1680 kWh = $.19 kWh. >> 3.8 yrs life >> >> Compare to say BI >> $1000 kWh roughly. >> If you get 10,000 cycles, that works out to same cost. $.10 per kWh. >> 27 yrs, but will the chemistry actually last that long? >> However, you have a massive upfront money cost. >> And for those of us off grid, you can’t really cycle 100%. And many lithium >> in the fine print don’t want you to charge to 100% daily. Let’s assume you >> start the generator at 10% and charge to 95%, now your usable amount is >> actually 85%, not 100%. >> Cost per kWh goes to $.12. >> >> >> >> >>> On Aug 11, 2020, at 6:04 AM, William Miller <will...@millersolar.com >>> <mailto:will...@millersolar.com>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Friends: >>> >>> >>> I am hoping y’all can tell me I am doing something wrong with my >>> arithmetic. I have registered to purchase Blue Planet batteries and priced >>> the product. I come up with math that indicates that comparing usable >>> amp/hours to usable amp/hours, that the Blue Planet is 5 times the cost of >>> a flooded L-16 battery array on a cost per kilowatt/hour. Can this be true? >>> >>> >>> I am using these parameters: >>> >>> >>> 1. DOD for flooded L16s: 50% >>> >>> 2. DOD for Blue Planet: 100% >>> >>> >>> I hope I am wrong. >>> >>> >>> Also, we often install battery arrays that are upwards of 4,000 AH. For >>> example, we installed 5,668 of East Penn flooded batteries on a couple of >>> projects. To acquire the same capacity in Blue Planet would require 9 >>> cabinets (again 50% DOD versus 100% DOD). Is this correct design? Is it >>> practical to install 9 cabinets? Does the system detect and compensate for >>> circulating currents in this many parallel strings? >>> >>> >>> Thanks in advance. >>> >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> >>> >>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of Jerry >>> Shafer >>> Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2020 12:02 PM >>> To: RE-wrenches >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery >>> >>> >>> Wrenchel have been very happy with all my Blue Planet battery systems, best >>> battery you will install. >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 11:19 AM <drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org >>> <mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Wrenches, >>> >>> What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Drake >>> Athens Electric >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/>_______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> >> > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > Village Power Design > linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/> > www.villagepowerdesign.com <http://www.villagepowerdesign.com/> > cell - 413-559-9763 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
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