If you weren't opposed to writing positive articles about RedDot, your blog would probably be really great and I'd read it regularly. If you used your real name, it would have a legitimacy to it that your anonymous blog can never have.
Adam Boyle On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Gavin Cope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've been reading this post with great interest. Not to discount anything > you've said because they're all valid points but nothing you've said in your > blog is a big secret. Any potential customer that talks to a reference site > will more than likely find about the cons of RedDot. Indeed I know from > experience that we have lost bids to other CMS products due to a customer's > requirements around say usability. So the information is there for any > company that does it's due diligence. On the flip side, other customers > "love" the product and have been using it for years, it meets their needs > and the misgivings of the product are either small enough not to worry about > or there are sufficient work arounds. So in a nutshell, I agree with what > you're saying in your blog in principle. I would also encourage you to keep > writing your blog because the more information gets out there, the more > likely we'll reach a critical mass where a few interested people snowball > into a caring, sharing developer community. I would however also encourage > you to write some articles on what you LIKE about RedDot as well. So without > sounding like a sales person, I think your blog would benefit from a > balanced dicussion because at the end of the day, you're positive and > negative opinions as a customer TO a potential customer mean more than any > sales person's spiel. > > Cheers, > > Gavin > > 2008/11/20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> I am blogging about some of the negative sides of RedDot to counter >> balance the positives put forward by, among others, the RedDot sales >> team themselves. I would not suggest anyone take either my or their >> comments in isolation. I'm focussing on RedDot because that is the CMS >> I've been forced to work with. I would be utterly astounded if an >> existing RedDot customer read my blog and decided to stop using the >> software purely based on its content. I merely wish to give all the >> relevant information for potential customers, who have no opportunity >> to trial the software themselves, and no other means of evaluating it. >> >> On Nov 19, 8:38 pm, "Adam Boyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > Blogging exclusively about bugs and flaws isn't helpful to those who >> might >> > be evaluating RedDot. >> > >> > It's not fair to write about only the negative stuff without also >> mentioning >> > some of the positive things that RedDot does too. >> > >> > If you were honestly trying to foster a debate about what features a CMS >> > should have, then why did you name your blog RedDotGripes? >> > >> > Isn't it more honest to say that you created your blog in the hopes that >> it >> > will pursuade current and/or potential RedDot customers against using >> > RedDot? >> > >> > Isn't that the real purpose of your blog? >> > >> > Adam >> > >> > On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] < >> > >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > >> > > I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues >> > > relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying >> > > to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs >> > > and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion >> > > - to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my >> > > thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam. >> > >> > > On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, "Adam Boyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question. >> > >> > > > You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to >> achieve >> > > with >> > > > your blog? >> > >> > > > What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will >> serve? >> > >> > > > Adam >> > >> > > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more < >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > wrote: >> > > > > 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my >> > > responses >> > > > > to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not "how do >> I do >> > > > > this" type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in >> a >> > > blog >> > > > > format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its >> design. >> > >> > > > > 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or >> will >> > > be, >> > > > > addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine >> flaws of >> > > the >> > > > > software as it stands right now, and will be useful information >> for >> > > those >> > > > > who are considering adopting RedDot for their website. >> > >> > > > > 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the >> > > outcome >> > > > > is. >> > >> > > > > 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks. >> > >> > > > > 2008/11/18 theHam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > >> > > > >> Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], >> > >> > > > >> 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog >> posts, >> > > > >> are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with >> the >> > > > >> issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that >> have >> > > > >> contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated >> that >> > > > >> there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from >> the >> > > > >> sounds of your comment "I cannot see how I could possibly get a >> > > > >> positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, >> are >> > > > >> pretty fundamental" have you made a decision and will not be >> > > > >> interested in the comments from people here? If you could let >> everyone >> > > > >> be aware of your position i think it will help the more >> passionate >> > > > >> people here and hopefully stop this becoming an unproductive >> flame war >> > > > >> (as these things types of threads tend to become) >> > >> > > > >> 2. "I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of >> these >> > > > >> comments." RedDot have taken notice of these comments. The next >> > > > >> version of reddot coming out will be addressing your gripe #1 as >> the >> > > > >> text editor is being replaced. Gripe #2 is being addressed (i >> believe >> > > > >> around may next year) with a cms frontend rewrite based on >> usability >> > > > >> fundamentals. Yes these have not been released yet and do not >> address >> > > > >> your issues "right now" but based on my previous comment other >> gripes >> > > > >> like the ones you have been mentioned have in the past been >> > > > >> progressively acknowledged and addressed - there is hope. >> > >> > > > >> 3. You asked earlier whether reddot would charge for upgrades, >> I'm >> > > > >> unaware of what region you are from but from ours if you are up >> to >> > > > >> date with your software support and maintenance upgrades are >> generally >> > > > >> provided under those costs (N.B. this may be different region to >> > > > >> region) >> > >> > > > >> 4. I posted in the comments a reference to this link. If possible >> > > > >> could you directly edit your post to refer to this discussion? If >> > > > >> people do not view the comments of the post they may miss the >> link. >> > >> > > > >> Cheers, >> > >> > > > >> - Morgan >> > >> > > > >> On Nov 19, 1:01 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" >> > > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > >> > Thanks for the thoughtful comments, "theham". I'll be dealing >> with a >> > > > >> > lot of what you say later on, but - in the meantime: >> > >> > > > >> > "all software is frustrating and flawed" - I think this is >> either >> > > not >> > > > >> > the case, or an awful indictment of our craft if it is. I >> personally >> > > > >> > make regular use of software that is neither flawed nor >> frustrating; >> > > > >> > as I alluded to earlier, maybe that should be rephrased as "all >> > > > >> > complex software is frustrating and flawed". I take the point, >> of >> > > > >> > course, that RedDot is not the only culprit. >> > >> > > > >> > "If you can please update your blog post" - you beat me to it - >> > > > >> > thanks :) >> > >> > > > >> > "Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently >> negative >> > > > >> > experience?" - of course, that would be ideal. I guess I'm >> feeling >> > > > >> > pessimistic at the moment - I cannot see how I could possibly >> get a >> > > > >> > positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, >> are >> > > > >> > pretty fundamental. So far, I've just dealt with the text >> editor >> > > > >> > creating invalid markup. As someone who has, over the last >> couple of >> > > > >> > years, really embraced web standards and clean, semantic >> markup, >> > > this >> > > > >> > DOES feel like a MASSIVE deal. However, there are other topics >> I'll >> > > be >> > > > >> > discussing which, I believe, will be more significant to some >> of you >> > > > >> > (gripe #2 - just posted - probably doesn't fall under this >> category, >> > > > >> > unfortunately). I'm talking core aspects of the RedDot CMS >> model >> > > which >> > > > >> > I consider flawed. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took >> some >> > > > >> > notice of these comments. I would also love it if an >> alternative CMS >> > > > >> > (preferably open source) could be suggested, or developed if >> there >> > > > >> > really is a gap in the market. >> > >> > > > >> > On Nov 18, 11:19 am, theHam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > > >> > > Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], >> > >> > > > >> > > I understand your pain and frustration. I'm a 3 y.o reddoter >> with >> > > a >> > > > >> > > love/hate relationship with the wonderful world of reddot. I >> try >> > > to >> > > > >> > > make sure that my clients never have to experience the hate >> and i >> > > deep >> > > > >> > > down love the challenge. One thing i have noticed is that the >> > > biggest >> > > > >> > > gripes i have with the product have been resolved >> progressively >> > > > >> > > through the years. >> > >> > > > >> > > 1. Complex workaround asp driven navigation has been replaced >> by >> > > (imo) >> > > > >> > > a much flexible approach with navman >> > > > >> > > 2. user syncronisation has been significantly improved with >> the >> > > user >> > > > >> > > sync templates >> > > > >> > > 3. page definitions which has simplified and sped up the >> building >> > > out >> > > > >> > > of content >> > >> > > > >> > > A soon to be resolved issue on my gripe list will be the text >> > > editor >> > > > >> > > which is to be replaced by the telerik asp.net/ajax driven >> text >> > > > >> editor >> > > > >> > > (i heard this month but could be wrong). Though we also have >> had >> > > > >> > > success with the ephox text editor and will be sad to see it >> go. >> > >> > > > >> > > As a few people mentioned all software is frustrating and >> flawed.. >> > > a >> > > > >> > > good example of this is that reddot will do things >> significantly >> > > > >> > > better than other product and significantly worse than >> others. If >> > > > >> > > reddot themselves don't move fast enough to bridge the gap >> that is >> > > > >> > > where people on this group and consultants can assist. >> > >> > > > >> > > A couple of things i think a lot of people on this group >> would >> > > > >> > > appreciate if you could do: >> > >> > > > >> > > 1. If you can please update your blog post with a link to >> this >> > > > >> > > discussion. That way at least people who find blog post via >> google >> > > can >> > > > >> > > come to this post to read an open discussion and maybe even >> find >> > > some >> > > > >> > > solutions to the issues that you have experienced whilst >> working >> > > on >> > > > >> > > reddot. >> > >> > > > >> > > 2. Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently >> > > negative >> > > > >> > > experience? it sounds like your implementation partner is not >> > > > >> > > communicating or assisting as best as they can to help >> workaround >> > > > >> > > these issues. How about changing the blog to a >> weekly/fortnightly >> > > > >> > > reddot gripe challenge? Post your issues to your blog (if >> that is >> > > the >> > > > >> > > format you prefer) and cross reference it to the group. That >> way >> > > we >> > > > >> > > call all attempt to outdo each other in trying to find the >> most >> > > > >> > > efficient and/or creative solution possible. I think we'll >> all >> > > learn a >> > > > >> > > thing or two as we all try and outdo each other! Through that >> > > process >> > > > >> > > i hope you will get the assistance you require. >> > >> > > > >> > > Best of luck with your reddot or all other cms experiences in >> the >> > > > >> > > future. >> > >> > > > >> > > - Morgan >> > >> > > > >> > > On Nov 18, 7:11 pm, Frederic Hemberger >> > >> > > > >> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > On the last RedDot Usergroup meeting in Frankfurt >> (Germany), Mr. >> > > > >> > > > Trageser (Head of RedDot support Germany) paid us a visit >> to >> > > talk >> > > > >> > > > about the support process. RedDot is aware of the problems >> with >> > >> > ... >> > >> > read more ยป >> >> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RedDot CMS Users" group. 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