Thanks, and thanks for the blog. There is nothing wrong with being critical of reddot, in fact it's refreshing to hear that others are having similar frustrations. Also, too many people are too willing to accept bad and bloated software design, especially with large enterprise apps. We should expect more. Sure you figure it out after a year or two, but in my world, software that takes a year or two to learn well enough to properly manage has some interface, engineering and documentation problems, and ain't nothing wrong with talking about them! It could be said it takes less time to learn html.
That said, I am also currently enjoying RedDot's many benefits, features and flexibility, along with it's frustrations. I look forward to reading your blog. -Dino On Nov 24, 3:47 pm, Jonathan Frazier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry: as mentioned in the thread, it was changed to: > > http://reddotmusings.blogspot.com/ > > in order to convey a less-biased outlook. > > ~ Jonathan > > On Nov 24, 7:24 pm, dino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hey, the blog link doesn't seem to work, how do I see your blog? > > > On Nov 19, 11:29 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues > > > relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying > > > to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs > > > and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion > > > - to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my > > > thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam. > > > > On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, "Adam Boyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question. > > > > > You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve > > > > with > > > > your blog? > > > > > What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will serve? > > > > > Adam > > > > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my > > > > > responses > > > > > to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not "how do I > > > > > do > > > > > this" type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a > > > > > blog > > > > > format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its > > > > > design. > > > > > > 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or > > > > > will be, > > > > > addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws > > > > > of the > > > > > software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for > > > > > those > > > > > who are considering adopting RedDot for their website. > > > > > > 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the > > > > > outcome > > > > > is. > > > > > > 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks. > > > > > > 2008/11/18 theHam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >> Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > > > > >> 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog posts, > > > > >> are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with the > > > > >> issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that > > > > >> have > > > > >> contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated that > > > > >> there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from the > > > > >> sounds of your comment "I cannot see how I could possibly get a > > > > >> positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are > > > > >> pretty fundamental" have you made a decision and will not be > > > > >> interested in the comments from people here? If you could let > > > > >> everyone > > > > >> be aware of your position i think it will help the more passionate > > > > >> people here and hopefully stop this becoming an unproductive flame > > > > >> war > > > > >> (as these things types of threads tend to become) > > > > > >> 2. "I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of these > > > > >> comments." RedDot have taken notice of these comments. The next > > > > >> version of reddot coming out will be addressing your gripe #1 as the > > > > >> text editor is being replaced. Gripe #2 is being addressed (i believe > > > > >> around may next year) with a cms frontend rewrite based on usability > > > > >> fundamentals. Yes these have not been released yet and do not address > > > > >> your issues "right now" but based on my previous comment other gripes > > > > >> like the ones you have been mentioned have in the past been > > > > >> progressively acknowledged and addressed - there is hope. > > > > > >> 3. You asked earlier whether reddot would charge for upgrades, I'm > > > > >> unaware of what region you are from but from ours if you are up to > > > > >> date with your software support and maintenance upgrades are > > > > >> generally > > > > >> provided under those costs (N.B. this may be different region to > > > > >> region) > > > > > >> 4. I posted in the comments a reference to this link. If possible > > > > >> could you directly edit your post to refer to this discussion? If > > > > >> people do not view the comments of the post they may miss the link. > > > > > >> Cheers, > > > > > >> - Morgan > > > > > >> On Nov 19, 1:01 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > > > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >> > Thanks for the thoughtful comments, "theham". I'll be dealing with > > > > >> > a > > > > >> > lot of what you say later on, but - in the meantime: > > > > > >> > "all software is frustrating and flawed" - I think this is either > > > > >> > not > > > > >> > the case, or an awful indictment of our craft if it is. I > > > > >> > personally > > > > >> > make regular use of software that is neither flawed nor > > > > >> > frustrating; > > > > >> > as I alluded to earlier, maybe that should be rephrased as "all > > > > >> > complex software is frustrating and flawed". I take the point, of > > > > >> > course, that RedDot is not the only culprit. > > > > > >> > "If you can please update your blog post" - you beat me to it - > > > > >> > thanks :) > > > > > >> > "Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently > > > > >> > negative > > > > >> > experience?" - of course, that would be ideal. I guess I'm feeling > > > > >> > pessimistic at the moment - I cannot see how I could possibly get a > > > > >> > positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are > > > > >> > pretty fundamental. So far, I've just dealt with the text editor > > > > >> > creating invalid markup. As someone who has, over the last couple > > > > >> > of > > > > >> > years, really embraced web standards and clean, semantic markup, > > > > >> > this > > > > >> > DOES feel like a MASSIVE deal. However, there are other topics > > > > >> > I'll be > > > > >> > discussing which, I believe, will be more significant to some of > > > > >> > you > > > > >> > (gripe #2 - just posted - probably doesn't fall under this > > > > >> > category, > > > > >> > unfortunately). I'm talking core aspects of the RedDot CMS model > > > > >> > which > > > > >> > I consider flawed. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took > > > > >> > some > > > > >> > notice of these comments. I would also love it if an alternative > > > > >> > CMS > > > > >> > (preferably open source) could be suggested, or developed if there > > > > >> > really is a gap in the market. > > > > > >> > On Nov 18, 11:19 am, theHam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > > > > >> > > I understand your pain and frustration. I'm a 3 y.o reddoter > > > > >> > > with a > > > > >> > > love/hate relationship with the wonderful world of reddot. I try > > > > >> > > to > > > > >> > > make sure that my clients never have to experience the hate and > > > > >> > > i deep > > > > >> > > down love the challenge. One thing i have noticed is that the > > > > >> > > biggest > > > > >> > > gripes i have with the product have been resolved progressively > > > > >> > > through the years. > > > > > >> > > 1. Complex workaround asp driven navigation has been replaced by > > > > >> > > (imo) > > > > >> > > a much flexible approach with navman > > > > >> > > 2. user syncronisation has been significantly improved with the > > > > >> > > user > > > > >> > > sync templates > > > > >> > > 3. page definitions which has simplified and sped up the > > > > >> > > building out > > > > >> > > of content > > > > > >> > > A soon to be resolved issue on my gripe list will be the text > > > > >> > > editor > > > > >> > > which is to be replaced by the telerik asp.net/ajax driven text > > > > >> editor > > > > >> > > (i heard this month but could be wrong). Though we also have had > > > > >> > > success with the ephox text editor and will be sad to see it go. > > > > > >> > > As a few people mentioned all software is frustrating and > > > > >> > > flawed.. a > > > > >> > > good example of this is that reddot will do things significantly > > > > >> > > better than other product and significantly worse than others. If > > > > >> > > reddot themselves don't move fast enough to bridge the gap that > > > > >> > > is > > > > >> > > where people on this group and consultants can assist. > > > > > >> > > A couple of things i think a lot of people on this group would > > > > >> > > appreciate if you could do: > > > > > >> > > 1. If you can please update your blog post with a link to this > > > > >> > > discussion. That way at least people who find blog post via > > > > >> > > google can > > > > >> > > come to this post to read an open discussion and maybe even find > > > > >> > > some > > > > >> > > solutions to the issues that you have experienced whilst working > > > > >> > > on > > > > >> > > reddot. > > > > > >> > > 2. Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently > > > > >> > > negative > > > > >> > > experience? it sounds like your implementation partner is not > > > > >> > > communicating or assisting as best as they can to help workaround > > > > >> > > these issues. How about changing the blog to a weekly/fortnightly > > > > >> > > reddot gripe challenge? Post your issues to your blog (if that > > > > >> > > is the > > > > >> > > format you prefer) and cross reference it to the group. That way > > > > >> > > we > > > > >> > > call all attempt to outdo each other in trying to find the most > > > > >> > > efficient and/or creative solution possible. I think we'll all > > > > >> > > learn a > > > > >> > > thing or two as we all try and outdo each other! Through that > > > > >> > > process > > > > >> > > i hope you will get the assistance you require. > > > > > >> > > Best of luck with your reddot or all other cms experiences in the > > > > >> > > future. > > > > > >> > > - Morgan > > > > > >> > > On Nov 18, 7:11 pm, Frederic Hemberger > > > > > >> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >> > > > On the last RedDot Usergroup meeting in Frankfurt (Germany), > > > > >> > > > Mr. > > > > >> > > > Trageser (Head of RedDot support Germany) paid us a visit to > > > > >> > > > talk > > > > >> > > > about the support process. RedDot is aware of the problems with > > > > >> their > > > > >> > > > knowlede bases. I say "bases" as he told us that some RedDot > > > > >> > > > departments in different countries set up their own knowledge > > > > >> > > > base, > > > > >> > > > which is a > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RedDot CMS Users" group. To post to this group, send email to RedDot-CMS-Users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/RedDot-CMS-Users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
