On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Nitebirdz wrote:
>> in Windows (use KDE 2.0 exclusively (with konsole and friends disabled,
>> of course), run autologin (http://www.linux-easy.com/development.php) to
>> log in as root all the time [I know that's stupid, but it's basically what
>> Windows does, and avoids the need to learn anything about permissions],
>> reboot every time something doesn't work right (instead of starting the
>> service), how is Linux more difficult?
>>
>> (This was a serious question, not a rhetoric one. If you can list a couple
>> of points, maybe they can be fixed...)
>>
>
>Try to have your mom configure the printer in the Linux box and then tell
>me what happens. Or even better, configure a scanner or a simple
>modem... or try to change the screen resolution. Those are all simple
>things in Windows.
She doesn't have a printer or a scanner. The screen is text,
there is no resolution to change, and the modem works fine out of
the box after installed. The kernel I have autodetects the
modem. Before you go saying "make her put the kernel there",
keep in mind that a large portion of "computer newbies" have no
idea how to Install Windows at all, and if something goes wrong,
they run to the computer store and pay to have windows installed.
The machine comes preinstalled with windows. Alas, my mom's
machine come preinstalled and set up in Linux because I did so.
The scenario is the same.
As many hardware configuration nightmares as you can provide for
Linux for a end user, I can provide just as many nightmares
configuring hardware in Windows. I'm not kidding either.
I'm trying to get an HP330 plotter to work in Windows over a LAN,
and it simply does not work. Latest drivers, followed
instructions, and it is on a clean fresh Win install. Ever try
to set up an i740 card in Windows? I had to flash the
motherboard BIOS, reinstall Windows from scratch, install the USB
update (despite not needing USB at all for anything), install 2
VIA motherboard drivers, install directX, install the i740 driver
in a specific way, then install the update. I've left out a few
other steps that I forgot. It took 9 hours altogether of
screwing around. Initially I fiddled for an hour with it before
doing anything, and couldn't get it to work despite followign the
instructions to the letter. BEFORE flashing the BIOS or doing
any of the above, I went on the net, found XFree driver on Red
Hat's site, installed it, had to edit a couple lines in
XF86Config, and was running X on the i740 perfectly in 20
minutes.
After the 9 hour Windows episode that followed the Linux install
of the i740 X server, I asked my friend (who has used computers
for about 4 years and is just an end user, but can install and
upgrade a fair number of things for himself) if he could have
possibly got the i740 to work in Windows. He said not a chance
in hell. He couldn't believe how simple it was in Linux, but how
insane it was in Windows.
Had an ACER CDROM in a machine with an HX chipset a while
back. Some software for Windows (Riven) would NOT work on this
drive. Please, oh please tell me why a piece of software running
on the computer will not work on a particular model of
CDROM? The Riven web site blamed it on ACER, who blamed it on
Microsoft. Every other piece of software/game worked fine on the
drive.
I could go on and on and on infinitely about hardware problems in
Windows that were unresolvable, and required actually calling
tech support somewhere, or most of the time reinstalling the
whole OS for one stupid driver. Ever have Windows install a new
video driver for a newly detected video card *EVERY REBOOT*. I
had 6 drivers in control panel. *ALL wrong*. How do you disable
autodetect? You dont.
Ever pull a drive out of a windows box and move it to another one
with a different motherboard? Kiss WIndows goodbye. *IF* you
get it working, youv'e got drivers installed and running for all
of the hardware of both boards. Remove them, and windows puts
them back with ! beside them.
My favorite is under the Driver tabs in control panel:
Driver
No driver currently loaded, nor is one needed.
[Update driver?]
Huh? Then on another tab it says the driver is working
correctly, but it isn't or I wouldn't be in there trying to fix
it.
>Again, please do not believe that I'm defending Microsoft products as a
>solution here. However, it wouldn't be honest for me to maintain that
>Linux is just as easy as Windows right now.
Linux is "different" from windows. Wether or not it is "easy"
depends on your viewpoint and computing background. People say
the "Macintosh" is easy. First time I sat down at one, after
using computers for 15 years, I tried to do stuff on it and
couldn't figure out jack shit. One mouse button, unintuitive
icons, etc.. Totally screwed useless GUI IMHO. However people
say it is user friendly? I'm a tech guy for shit sake and I
couldn't get around to do normal computing things on it. It was
not a modern Mac, but a 68k. I gave up and said "sorry, you'll
have to find a Mac nut for this...".
Easy, and user friendly are completely relative. I say put a new
user in front of GNOME having never touched a computer before,
and they will have no more real trouble with Linux than they
would with windows. The problems will vary in each OS, but
they'll be on a roughly similar learning curve.
I have personally given Red Hat CD's to non-techie people,
including a friend who is dyslexic. He had used MSDOS for 1
month and was very new to computers. He picked up Linux,
including the console, editing files, you name it. IP masq,
etc.. NO BACKGROUND in computers at all.
Easy doesn't mean click the mouse. It means easy for the
individual, who is different from the next individual.
Linux is no harder or easier than Windows RIGHT NOW. It is just
different. If someone comes in KNOWING Windows, then LInux is
hard, because it is not what they know allready and they have to
unlearn some stuff and relearn other stuff.
Certain areas of Linux are much more complex than Windows, but
then the reverse is true too. Sometimes configuring Windows
means REGEDIT. That is hardly "user friendly".
Give me an example of easy in Windows, I give an example of easy
in Linux. Give example of difficult to configure in Linux, I
will counter with an equally difficult to configure item in
Windows, usually that is straightforward and shouldn't be
difficult.
The fact is, BOTH OS's need improvement, and one of them is
ahead in some areas and has a larger userbase, while the other is
advancing new features faster, and is ahead in other areas. You
guess which is which.
Tell me you've never sat for hours in Windows, or days trying to
get a piece of hardware to work. Tell me the process was not a
PITA. If you haven't, then you're lucky. A lot of people have,
and I'm sure a lot of people here will attest to it too.
Lets take this off list though, as it is severely getting major
OT.
--
Mike A. Harris Linux advocate
Computer Consultant GNU advocate
Capslock Consulting Open Source advocate
Try out Red Hat Linux today: http://www.redhat.com
ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/redhat-6.2/
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