> On Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 06:22:57PM -0600, Vidiot wrote:
> : > The installer DOES note that it will completely repartition your drives,
> : > thus killing whatever was already there.  Shame on you for not using the 
> : > "Custom" option, which lets you choose what to do with your drives.
> : 
> : That is no excuse for the installation to blindly remove partitions without
> : double-checking with the user that it is OK to destroy that drive.
> 
> There's nothing "blind" about it.  It tells you plain as day.  You didn't
> pay enough attention, and you killed your data.  You have nobody to blame
> but yourself.  It happens to everyone once.  This is your turn.  Next time,
> you will be more careful.

As pointed out by another poster, that is a lousy response.  It doesn't tell
you plain as day.  Redhat has always warned that data will be destroyed,
but never like this and never with warning the user and giving the user the
option to select what happens to what disks.  There is no excuse to treat
your "customers" this way.  If you want someone to use your product, you don't
treat them poorly and blow away their data.  If it indeeds happens to everyone,
that should be warning enough that there is something very wrong with the
installation.

> : RedHat's installation has to take a lot of responsibility in this fiasco.
> 
> Maybe they could put in a "Hey, did you really read what I just said?  I'm
> about to kill all of your data.  You sure about this?" message, but that
> smacks of Microsoft's "Are you sure?  Are you really sure?  Really and 
> truly?  Sure you mean it?".

All they have to do is on the very next screen, before it destroys the data,
it shows all of the disks that it found, and presents the user with a check
box list that tells the installation program which disks IT CAN do it to.
It is such a simple thing to do and it treats the customer's data with
respect instead of distain.

> : Based upon previous RH installs, those kinds of warnings still gave you
> : ample opportunity to tell the installation what drives and paritions are
> : to be destroyed, or just mounted after the install.  There is no excuse for
> : this installation program doing what it did.
> 
> I for one appreciate it.  I'm sick and tired of having to say yes 3 times
> just to get something done.  Throw the message up on the screen, I'll read
> it, think about it, then act.  If I'm not sure, I'll read the docs to find
> out what my answer should be.

Can't read the docs when there aren't any.  Like I said above, no "yes"
involved.  First screen checks "auto" next screen lists available drives
and partitions.  Give the user a chance to save their disk.  Treat them
with respect.

I don't care if you don't like the extra screen, but for everyone that it
ultimately save from destruction, it will be appreciated.

> http://www.redhat.com/support/manuals/RHL-6.1-Manual/install-guide/
> 
> That says it all.  It *clearly* states on the page that discusses 
> Installation Classes that a "Workstation" install will remove ALL
> existing Linux partitions.  It also clearly states that a "Server" 
> install will remove ALL existing partitions of ANY type.

Catch-22.  Just how is someone supposed to read such documentation with
a machine that is NOT working?

> The object here isn't to crucify you, or crucify RedHat for their installer.
> This is about reading the docs, reading the message that's displayed on the
> screen, and not relying on 3 levels of "Are you sure?" messages.  Leave
> that stuff for the Windows boys & girls.

Even the Sun Solaris auto install presents you with the available disks
that you tell it to go ahead an use, before it does the destroy and
install.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with having an auto install
ask the customer which disks it can use.  Like I said, treat the customer
with respect.

> I recently suffered data loss too.  I had a drive fry in my personal 
> server.  Do you see me screaming bloody murder at Western Digital for 
> not warning me that the drive might fry?  No, I accept that disks fry,
> and due to my own lack of diligence (I've got a tape drive I could slide
> in that machine), I lost some of my data.  Some of the data was recovered
> from copies on my workstation, Google's caches, and a couple of individuals
> who sent me copies of stuff they had saved that I wrote.  This time I'm 
> putting the tape in.

Acts of "god" are different that acts of the installer.  The installer HAS
control over its destiny.  Respect, it all comes down to respect.

MB


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