On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 5:41 PM kcrisman <kcris...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > We (not just Sage, but you and I!) have been discussing this for > almost 15 years. > > > Haha, true! > > > SageMath has several other long-term contributors who also package > software. We're all roughly on the same page about what it would take > to fix the sage installation for end users. > > > And some of these people (perhaps kiwifb?) have not been as directly > involved in some of the recent disputes. Maybe there is a path forward (I > also presume the CoCC is thinking about this). > > > But so far, every attempt to disentangle the > library/distribution to enable this division of labor has been met > with resistance by essentially one person. > > > Well, more accurately there must be a critical mass of people who, like > Kwankyu in some recent comments (apologies for not having link to hand), > want to trust that the related process undertaken by that person is worth > doing, and to let that proceed. Otherwise they would have spoken up, as > many longer-term developers are not shy of doing so on other matters. > > Regarding WSL in Dima's post, I thought > https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/37184 (and the followups) addressed > this quite a bit - that was what I was referring to. If I could get it to > work, I think anyone could. But I didn't try Jupyterlab, maybe that's not > included in it. Anyway, I was definitely not referring to anyone who knows > what "apt-get" is in WSL. So am I right in your saying that Jupyter > wouldn't work "out of the box" with Sage with the conda-based solution for > WSL? To me, that's an argument *for* batteries, not against. > > Same applies for the MacOS version provided by 3manifolds, my assumption > was that this would work "out of the box" if you do sage -n jupyter or > something. That assumption could be wrong - but again, why put additional > barriers to the user? "Normal" software that "normal" i.e. non-developer > people use in the real world doesn't do that. Why make that a prerequisite > for just doing math? I hate to beat the dead horse of the now-debatable > mission statement, but does Mathematica make you separately download and > install a notebook? > scipy does, sympy does, Macaulay2 does, GAP does, R does, Julia does... > Even LaTeX has this problem - you have to install the distribution > separately from TeXShop or what have you - and just like the developer > friction noted here, it's a little bit of extra friction. > > > What fragmentation are you talking about? > > I meant that it's a bit silly (from the Mac or Windows perspective) that > one even needs Arch, Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora, or anything else on > the massive (and probably incorrect) list on Wikipedia: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions That's a > massive duplication of effort right there. > > > It has to be formulated and agreed upon in general lines, otherwise such > a summit would be a waste of time. > > Agreed. All of my points are irrelevant compared to getting us back on > some consensus track. That means toning down the rhetoric and candidly > saying what sub-optimal concessions might be on the table (to be clear, for > everyone). It's clear now that at least two visions for Sage > packaging/modularization which, in their current technical state, are > viewed by stakeholders as colliding in their purest forms, but it seems > unlikely that Sage is not Turing-complete enough to support a modus vivendi. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/7ebdcd4a-b8fa-4e1a-8f65-687730fa309bn%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/7ebdcd4a-b8fa-4e1a-8f65-687730fa309bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq2ge95V2XtFFtM3gsgyZsgUDZBb0sg%3DcLq%3DRSkqZwj_hg%40mail.gmail.com.
