Fw: [abcusers] Clarification wanted on abc draft standard 2.0 (fwd)

[Neil Jennings]

Hi,
(I am not sure exactly how to reply to threads, please let me know if I am
doing it wrong.)

Spoken words are not at all uncommon in songs, so I think there is a
reasonable case for the facility.

I would not like to see it on percussion if that means there will always be
some kind of sound implied by the note.
My program handles percussion as well as melody (though does not yet import
it from abc).

An indicator in the file header may be better, although existing files won't
have it, of course.
Neil Jennings

-Original Message-
From: Phil Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 02 October 2003 16:44
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Clarification wanted on abc draft standard 2.0 (fwd)


>>In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, I. Oppenheim
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>>>In most cases, lyrics are NOT wanted on rests, but I have seen some
>>>files which DO use lyrics on rests. There is obviously no indication as
>>>to which is intended when reading a file. The abc standard (draft 2.0)
>>>says nothing about lyrics on rests, but the need DOES occur in some
>>>circumstances.
>>>
>>>Is it possible to state, and include in the standard, what should be
done?
>>
>>I think it is valid. The reasoning is as follows:
>>a) Symbols can be on notes, rests and bar lines
>
>Bad Idea.  This breaks all existing programs which support aligned words,
>and any existing files which include aligned words and rests.
>
>If such a fundamental change from existing practice is to be contemplated
>we will need some way of marking files to show that they are to be
>interpreted in the new way.
>
>
>This is an awful lot of trouble to achieve something which can be achieved
>much more easily by restricting non-musical lyrics to percussion notation.
>
>It is not manadatory for abc to support every strange construction which
anyone
>has ever used in staff notation.
>
>Phil Taylor
>
>
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Re: [abcusers] mup

[Neil Jennings]

Problem is that the 'independent format' needs to accommodate all
functionality required from all formats.
I don't think MusicXML fits the bill yet. It doesn't seem to support some of
the constructs that I need (unless I have missed something).

Agree that when we have a 'Universal Music format' then this would be the
preferred approach.

Neil Jennings


- Original Message -
From: "Dave Holland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 13 October 2003 12:28
Subject: Re: [abcusers] mup


> On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 01:03:23PM +0200, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
> > Would be nice to start working on a commandline tool that can take many
> > types of music notation formats as input and produces any other of these
> > formats as output.
>
> I think it would be more use to have a program for each format that
> would convert files of that format to and from an independent format
> such as MusicXML. That way, when a new notation program is released
> (with its own new format!) you just have to produce an appropriate
> MusicXML converter and all the existing files become available.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
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Re: [abcusers] Re: mup

[Neil Jennings]

My program HARMONY certainly knows the difference between Modes, Minor and
Major, as does the abc format.
MIDI does NOT distinguish modes, but the key meta-event is only for
documentation anyway, makes no difference to the audio output.


- Original Message -
From: "Laura Conrad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 14 October 2003 14:20
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Re: mup


> > "David" == DavBarnert  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> David> pdf). The problem with compatibility with abc for this format
> David> (and I believe all the others) is support for modes. I don't
think
> David> any of the other formats know the difference between C major
and A
> David> minor.
>
> Lilypond does.
>
> --
> Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ )
> (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574
> 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139
>
>
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Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files

[Neil Jennings]

My program HARMONY can present the list of files within an abc tunebook in
either title or number sequence.
If anyone wants the file written out in a new sequence, I could easily add
that facility.
Neil Jennings

(Download HARMONY shareware from www.greenhedges.com. Its original function
was to add chords to a tune but it now does much more)


- Original Message -
From: "Phil Headford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 16 October 2003 03:34
Subject: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


> I've written a little routine which runs under Windows 3.1, 95, 98
> It's a bit like Noddy, wobbles a bit, but the bell on the hat still rings.
>
> Phil (Flos) Headford
> fiddle: Old Swan Band, The English Country Dance Band, Cwm Dancing, Big
Bad Contra
>
>
>
>
>
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
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Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC to HTML viewer

[Neil Jennings]

May be interesting to note that my program HARMONY provides tablature for
Anglo Concertina (and Melodeon). I don't know of any other abc program which
does.
Neil Jennings
www.greenhedges.com

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 14 October 2003 13:54
Subject: [abcusers] Re: ABC to HTML viewer


> Norman Schmidt wrote:
>
>  >After not finding a plugin for my browser to read abc files
>  >directly from the internet, I have taken the viewing engine I
>  >wrote for ABassC on the Palm and PockePC and ported it to HTML.
>  >
>  >The result is at www.normanschmidt.net/abassc.php .
>  >
>  >You have to copy/paste the ABC text and press a button; but I
>  >find it useful when, say your on a machine without BarFly or
>  >abcm2ps installed.
>
> Nice. Thank you. Note, however, that similar functionality already
> exists at <http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html> with the
> added features of being able to select various formats for return
> (jpg, midi, pdf, ps).
>
> __  /\/\/\/\
><__> | | | | |  David Barnert
><__> | | | | |  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
><__> | | | | |  Albany, NY
><__> \/\/\/\/
>
>   Ventilator   Concertina
> Bellows  Bellows
>   (Vocation)   (Avocation)
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
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Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC to HTML viewer

[Neil Jennings]

Norman
Glad you like it.

An earlier version (abc arranger) is advertised at the abc home and I have
sent updated details. But it doesn't seem to have got through yet.

I originally planned it as a tune PROCESSOR, not a scoring or playback
program, and it does not yet support the complete abc syntax.

Neil

- Original Message -
From: "Norman Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 18 October 2003 10:59
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC to HTML viewer


> Your program does a great number of things that no other ABC program does.
> The random tune generator and midi accompaniment are wonderful.
> I was only suprised not to see it at http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc
> and suggest you contact Chris.
>
> Norman
> http://www.normanschmidt.net
>
>
> Neil Jennings wrote:
>
> >May be interesting to note that my program HARMONY provides tablature for
> >Anglo Concertina (and Melodeon). I don't know of any other abc program
which
> >does.
> >Neil Jennings
> >http://www.greenhedges.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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Re: [abcusers] Drone notes

[Neil Jennings]

My program HARMONY will soon allow import of multi-voice abc files (this is
currently under development), and it can display multiple voices in the Bass
clef.
I will let you know when it is ready.
Neil Jennings
www.greenhedges.com



- Original Message -
From: "Frank Nordberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 25 October 2003 09:20
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Drone notes


>
>
> Bill Taffe wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Please excuse a novice question.   I have some music where I'd like to
put
> > in drone notes.
>
> You can write the drone notes as a separate abc voice.
> Unfortunately, BarFly and abcm2ps are the currently only abc
> applications that allow you to notate multiple voices on a single staff.
> Here's an example how you can do it with BarFly. Maybe some abcm2ps user
> here can give the syntax for abcm2ps.
>
> Frank Nordberg
> http://www.musicaviva.com
>
> X:4249
> T:Ungarescha
> C:anon.
> O:Hungary/Italy
> B:Giorgio Mainerio: Il primo libro de balli (1578)
> N:Repeats written out in full in the original
> R:Ungarescha
> Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://www.musicaviva.com
> V:1 Up
> V:2 Down Merge
> M:C|
> L:1/4
> Q:1/2=125
> K:Gmix
> V:1
> G{F}GAG|GD{G}DE/F/|G{D}GAG|D2{G/E/}D2::B{A}B{A}BA/B/|
> V:2
> G,4-|G,4-|G,4-|G,4::G,4-|
> %
> V:1
> cBAG|B{A}B{A}BA/B/|cBAc|BGAG/F/|G2{D}G2:|
> V:2
> G,4-|G,4-|G,4-|G,4-|G,4:|
> %
> V:1
> M:3/4
> L:1/4
> Q:3/4=125
> "^Saltarello"G2{D/E/F/}G|{D}G2A|G2D|{G}D2E/F/|G2A|G2D|{G}D2E/F/|
> V:2
> M:3/4
> L:1/4
> G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|
> %
> V:1
> G2A|G2D|{G}D2E/F/|G2A|G2D|{G}D2E/F/|G2A|
> V:2
> G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|
> %
> V:1
> G2D|{G}D3|:B2{D/G/A/}B|{D}B2A/B/|c2B|A2G|B2{D/G}B|
> V:2
> G,3-|G,3|:G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|
> %
> V:1
> {D}B2A/B/|c2B|A2c|B2G|A2G/F/|G3|{D}G3:|
> V:2
> G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3:|
> W:
> W:
> W:  From Musica Viva - http://www.musicaviva.com
> W:  the Internet center for free sheet music downloads.
>
>
>
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
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Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files

[Neil Jennings]

I will try and get it ino the next release, due sometime before Christmas

(v 3.2.5 will also support multi-voice abc files and font directives, to
name just a few improvements)
Neil

- Original Message -
From: "Derek Bone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 16 November 2003 21:50
Subject: RE: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


> Neil
>
> I'd like that facility to be able to rewrite the file in the new
alphameric
> sequence
> If you could add this I would be very grateful
> I've been after this facility for some time to enable me to make up one
big
> alphameric
> file for use on my handheld
>
> Thanks
>
> Derek Bone
>
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil Jennings
> Sent: 16 October 2003 09:08
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files
>
>
> My program HARMONY can present the list of files within an abc tunebook in
> either title or number sequence.
> If anyone wants the file written out in a new sequence, I could easily add
> that facility.
> Neil Jennings
>
> (Download HARMONY shareware from www.greenhedges.com. Its original
function
> was to add chords to a tune but it now does much more)
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Phil Headford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: 16 October 2003 03:34
> Subject: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files
>
>
> > I've written a little routine which runs under Windows 3.1, 95, 98
> > It's a bit like Noddy, wobbles a bit, but the bell on the hat still
rings.
> >
> > Phil (Flos) Headford
> > fiddle: Old Swan Band, The English Country Dance Band, Cwm Dancing, Big
> Bad Contra
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
> http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
>
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
> http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
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Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files

[Neil Jennings]

Rewriting the abc file sorted alphabetically has now been implemented, and
will be available in the next release of HARMONY
Neil
- Original Message -
From: "Neil Jennings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 23 November 2003 09:51
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


> I will try and get it ino the next release, due sometime before Christmas
>
> (v 3.2.5 will also support multi-voice abc files and font directives, to
> name just a few improvements)
> Neil
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Derek Bone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: 16 November 2003 21:50
> Subject: RE: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files
>
>
> > Neil
> >
> > I'd like that facility to be able to rewrite the file in the new
> alphameric
> > sequence
> > If you could add this I would be very grateful
> > I've been after this facility for some time to enable me to make up one
> big
> > alphameric
> > file for use on my handheld
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Derek Bone
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil Jennings
> > Sent: 16 October 2003 09:08
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files
> >
> >
> > My program HARMONY can present the list of files within an abc tunebook
in
> > either title or number sequence.
> > If anyone wants the file written out in a new sequence, I could easily
add
> > that facility.
> > Neil Jennings
> >
> > (Download HARMONY shareware from www.greenhedges.com. Its original
> function
> > was to add chords to a tune but it now does much more)
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Phil Headford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: 16 October 2003 03:34
> > Subject: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files
> >
> >
> > > I've written a little routine which runs under Windows 3.1, 95, 98
> > > It's a bit like Noddy, wobbles a bit, but the bell on the hat still
> rings.
> > >
> > > Phil (Flos) Headford
> > > fiddle: Old Swan Band, The English Country Dance Band, Cwm Dancing,
Big
> > Bad Contra
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
> > http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
> >
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
> > http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
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> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Re: [abcusers] Bar Lengths

[Neil Jennings]

Don't know if it helps, but the next release of HARMONY will implement
parts, so you can put in a formula such as

A  ( (AB)*2  (AC)*2 )*3

Neil Jennings

- Original Message -
From: "John Chambers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 02 December 2003 22:20
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Bar Lengths


> Richard Robinson writes:
> | On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 09:26:40PM -, Phil Headford wrote:
> | > I may have missed this from an earlier discussion; apologies if so.
> | > Real, working musicians in bands need to be able to choose (often in a
matter of seconds) a tune to go with the next dance.
> | > With a repertoire of hundreds (or a thousand or two) of tunes, the
characteristics of each tune or set are not always easy to bring to mind.
> | > So, many of us have little 5 or 6 page lists, which give some of our
favourite tunes aranged by the following criteria:
> | >
> | > Tune type (polka, jig, reel, etc)
> | > Key (and modulations)
> | > Bar length
> | >
> | > So which field in ABC do I use for bar structure? I have been putting
this info into a J: header field - eg 32=8*2+8+8 for Galopede, 40=8*2+12*2
for Herbert Smith's Polka,
> | > 40=8*2+8+8*2 for Waterloo Dance. Some might think this academic, but
for practical musicians, it's the second thing you want to know about a
tune.
> |
> | It's a good question. I've wished, several times, that I'd done such a
> | thing from the start. And maybe one day I'll get round to it, but in the
> | meantime I've occasionally cheated, with things like "R:32-bar Jig";
> | which is better than nothing, but not the Right Way.
>
> I've often thought of this, too. It does seem like these two could be
> combined in a form like:
>   R: Jig 32=8*2+8+8
> This  would  have  the  advantage  that programs looking only for the
> basic rhythm's name would find it where they expect it, and  programs
> wanting  more details could look at the rest and try to make sense of
> it.
>
> OTOH, the modifier first makes more sense in English and  many  other
> languages.  Thus, I have a number of tunes with rhythms like:
>   R: Boda-polska
>
> I like to include the hyphen to separate the modifier  off  from  the
> basic rhythm, though Swedes would of course not use the hyphen.
>
> In any case, I'd also have the criticism that I often  want  to  know
> more  about the internal rhythm of measures, so I can find tunes that
> truly match.  Thus, single and double  jigs  often  don't  work  well
> together,  for the same reason that marches and reels don't work well
> together.  I have a "strathspey" directory that includes  tunes  used
> under  that  name  at  Scottish dances, but it's a jumbled mixture of
> true strathspeys with shottishes and airs.  They come from a  lot  of
> sources,  and the borderlines are fuzzy, making it difficult to label
> them so that you can select just one kind of tune.
>
> I'd imagine that most rhythmic terms in most musical styles have  the
> same sort of problem.  I don't know how to handle it well.
>
>
> --
>O
>  <:#/> John Chambers
>+   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   / \  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: [abcusers] unfolding og repeats

[Neil Jennings]

In what context?
My program HARMONY will play repeats as written, and if you export as a MIDI
and then re-import, the repeats will have been 'unfolded'
Neil Jennings

(Sorry, it is Windows based)

- Original Message -
From: "Atte André Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 13 January 2004 22:39
Subject: [abcusers] unfolding og repeats


> Hi
>
> I asked this question some time back but would like to know what the
> situation is right now:
>
> Is there any (pref. linux-based, commandline and  open-source) software
> outthere that will unfold repeats?
>
> --
> peace, love & harmony
> Atte
>
> http://www.atte.dk
>
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Re: [abcusers] unfolding og repeats

[Neil Jennings]

If you really want a program to unfold abc directly, I could do that, but it
would be Windows, not Linux.
Would take a little time to do.
Neil
- Original Message -
From: "Atte André Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 24 January 2004 21:15
Subject: Re: [abcusers] unfolding og repeats


> Atte André Jensen wrote:
>
> > Is there any (pref. linux-based, commandline and  open-source) software
> > outthere that will unfold repeats?
>
> Thanks for the replies. So you're all suggesting that I go
> abc->midi->abc. This is not really ideal since *alot* of information
> obviously gets lost along the way.
>
> Are there other options? how about abc->musicxml->abc?
>
> --
> peace, love & harmony
> Atte
>
> http://www.atte.dk
>
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Re: [abcusers] unfolding og repeats

[Neil Jennings]

Sorry, I don't know Python.
Any solution I had would be based on my existing code
Neil

- Original Message -
From: "Exu Yangi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 26 January 2004 06:39
Subject: Re: [abcusers] unfolding og repeats


> Hello, Neil
>
> Just a quick comment, and a question:
>
> The question: Would you be willing to run Python 2.3 program to do that ?
I
> could fairly quickly give you something that would let you copy text into
> the clipboard, and then run the program to expand the repeats.
>
> The Comment: would you be interesting in helping Beta an ABC catalogger
and
> editor ? Right now, it doesn't expand repeats, but with a bit of
convincing,
> I could probably get it to do that ...
>
> The editor (and IDE) is over at
>
> http://www.geocities.com/exuyangi/LiveFrogSynthesizers.html
>
> Anyway, if you would not mind the cut/paste cycle, and can do Python, let
me
> know. BTW, why ?
>
> Phil
>
> >From: "Neil Jennings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >If you really want a program to unfold abc directly, I could do that, but
> >it
> >would be Windows, not Linux.
> >Would take a little time to do.
> >Neil
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "Atte André Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: 24 January 2004 21:15
> >Subject: Re: [abcusers] unfolding og repeats
> >
> >
> > > Atte André Jensen wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is there any (pref. linux-based, commandline and  open-source)
> >software
> > > > outthere that will unfold repeats?
> > >
> > > Thanks for the replies. So you're all suggesting that I go
> > > abc->midi->abc. This is not really ideal since *alot* of information
> > > obviously gets lost along the way.
> > >
> > > Are there other options? how about abc->musicxml->abc?
> > >
> > > --
> > > peace, love & harmony
> > > Atte
> > >
> > > http://www.atte.dk
> > >
> > > To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
> >http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
> >
> >To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
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>
> _
> Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up - fast & reliable Internet access with
prime
> features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1
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Re: [abcusers] Exporting to Midi.

[Neil Jennings]

My program HARMONY imports abc, including multiple voices, and writes MIDI.
It also has facilities to add MIDI effects (modulation, pitch bend etc) to 
individual notes via 'note styles'
The latest release also lets you play tunes in via MIDI keyboard (in step 
time only)
See my web stie www.greenhedges.com
Neil

At 07:03 PM 3/16/04, you wrote:
I'm sure this has been covered before, but does anyone have a favored way 
of generating a midi file from abc?

I own ABC2Win, and have been playing with BarFly.   I've been unable to 
redirect PlayQABC output to the midi synth to a file... I would think it's 
possible, but I've not been able to figure it out.

So.. looking for favorite methods... preferably a player that's aware of 
the Rhythm R: field, rolls and repeats and the like and plays them 
correctly   PlayQABC may be primitive, but it does alright :)

Thanks   Oh.. btw..  operating systems avail are Win2k, MacOsX, and 
*nix, provided admin access is not necessary.

--

 //Christian

Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned &
[EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980  | are nesting; In the hollow of
371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once
65203-2202 573.999.2370   | had been; And he lifts up his
Computer Support Specialist, Sr.  | arms in a blessing; For being
University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins
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Re: [abcusers] somebody on this list has a virus

[Neil Jennings]

I too have had messages bounced back to me that I didn't send.
I am using Eudora - don't think it is susceptible.
At 10:26 AM 3/30/04, you wrote:
I just got a virus bounce message from Freeserve; their virus checker
was under the impression that [EMAIL PROTECTED] had sent one of
their users an infected message.  This list was not itself involved:
they quoted some of the headers back to me and they show that the
virus used my address as the putative sender.  That address is only
used for this list, and it's unlikely that messages containing it
will have propagated far beyond it.
So, there must be a list reader using Windows and Outlook Express with
a virus.  Among the readers of this list that is *not* a common setup,
most of us know better - so if that's what you've got, check what your
system is doing.
-
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
 * food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM "Embro, Embro".
--> off-list mail to "j-c" rather than "abc" at this site, please <--
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Re: [abcusers] File Conversion

[Neil Jennings]

Have you tried importing the MIDI to my program HARMONY?
This can also write abc. (But is only available for Windows)
(download from www.greenhedges.com)

If I had the MT format to hand, or some sample files, I could probably 
write a direct import to HARMONY - would there be a large market for it? 
How widely used is Musictime? What OS does it use?
Neil

At 07:37 PM 3/30/04, you wrote:
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Don 
Parrish-Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
We have a very early version of MusicTime that is getting quirkier and 
quirkier as Windows "mutates".  It "sort of works" with Windows XP, but 
one more "downgrade" from Microsoft and it may be curtains for it.
Ah, great, another MT die-hard :-) My version of 2.0 still works fine on 
XP BTW.

The only MT -> conversion route I've found is save the file from MT as 
MIDI and put it through Midi2abc - but actually, I find the output from 
Midi2abc so much in need of editing that just retyping the tune in abc is 
usually far quicker :-)

--
Steve Mansfield
Contact me off-list using lists AT lesession DOT co DOT uk
http://www.lesession.co.uk - abc music notation tutorial,
  the uk.music.folk newsgroup FAQ, and other goodies
http://www.trebuchetmusic.co.uk - Trebuchet


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Re: [abcusers] File Conversion

[Neil Jennings]

There is a manual included in the download, a little out of date on the 
newer options but still valid for most.
There is also a comprehensive help file in the program - see the help menu
To edit notes, click on one with the RIGHT mouse button - you will get an 
edit menu which includes adding notes,
You can also copy & paste using the toolbar
The download is the full version, you just get an unlcok key for the 
program when you register
Regards
Neil





At 10:32 PM 3/30/04, you wrote:
Ok, I installed your Harmony program.  I only had a few minutes to play 
with it, but I was able to convert a couple of midi songs to scores.

I couldn't figure out how to edit or add notes in this brief session, 
though.   Do you have documentation that is downloadable when you register 
this program?

Don

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Re: [abcusers] File Conversion

[Neil Jennings]

Oh yes, and if you find it useful, or are impressed by it's facilities, 
PLEASE let us all know!
Thanks
Neil

At 10:32 PM 3/30/04, you wrote:
Ok, I installed your Harmony program.  I only had a few minutes to play 
with it, but I was able to convert a couple of midi songs to scores.

I couldn't figure out how to edit or add notes in this brief session, 
though.   Do you have documentation that is downloadable when you register 
this program?

Don

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Re: [abcusers] File Conversion

[Neil Jennings]

No sarcasm at all, a genuine request for positive feedback.

I don't know of such a program, but might be able to write one. The only 
difficult point is finding out how to assign the data stream.
Once that is done, I can easily capture the MIDI events to a file.

At 06:29 PM 3/31/04, you wrote:
Do I detect a bit of sarcasm there, Neil?

Ok, so one part of my problem is easily solvable by various means (import 
a MIDI file to extract a workable source score), so my next question for 
all of you is does anyone know of a program that will record a MIDI stream 
that is being played through the sound card and store it into a MIDI 
file.  Since Music Time seems too limited to export a score into a 
MIDI-formatted file, this might be a solution.

thank you,
Don
At 11:17 PM 3/30/2004, you wrote:
Oh yes, and if you find it useful, or are impressed by it's facilities, 
PLEASE let us all know!
Thanks
Neil
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Re: [abcusers] ABC and MusicXML

[Neil Jennings]

MusicXML is plain text, just as all the markup languages are, but that 
doesn't mean you don't have to decode it.
Can you decode even simple HTML by just reading it?.
MusicXML needs to be read along with the DTD.

(By the way, I am slowly adding MusicXML export to HARMONY)
Neil


At 05:05 PM 4/1/04, you wrote:
On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 03:33:01PM +, John Chambers wrote:
> P J Headford comments:
> | Just a reminder ...
> | ABC is not just a computer thing.
>
> This is worth repeating periodically as a reminder of  one  of  ABC's
> main  features
>
> One of the benefits of any plain-text data format is that  you  don't
> necessarily  need  any  fancy tools to read it.  Plain text does work
> against the fancy formatting, fonts, etc.  that you can get with more
> complex  tools.  But if you just want the information, plain text can
> be a lot better than the fancier formats.
>
> | >From what is being said on the list, I gather MusicXML would not 
have this
> | interface to the real world.
>
> MusicXML is intended as a computer-friendly music notation.  It's not
> at  all  a replacement or competitor for ABC.

But it's still plaintext ? You could read it if you had to, but no-one
here would want to (by definition. It's an ABC list). Myself included.
"Verbosity is not considered a drawback" they say. Not what we want.
As the starter of this thread, I can only point out that I wasn't
proposing MusicXML as a competitor or a replacement for ABC, I was
proposing it as a complement. ABC is nicer for humans, xml is nicer for
machines. Since we do hand our tunes over to computers to do things
with, as well as writing them on the backs of envelopes, some things
might be nicer for them to do in xml, if we could get the ABC back from
it next time we want to interact with it directly.
Though, having gone further into investigating this, I'm getting
my original enthusiasm into perspective . XSLT makes it _really_
easy to parse notes (or anything else) out of musicxml, which is the
tricky bit for abc. But having done that, it's not easy to see what you
can do with it. Have W3C really given us a toy language with next to no
storage ? The only variable type is a scalar, and they can only be assiged
to on creation; nor can functions return values. Odd. I think I must be
missing some sort of mindset thing.
--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem
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Re: [abcusers] something that ought to work...

[Neil Jennings]

If you make a couple of small changes, my program HARMONY can deal with it

a) Put [ and ] around the v:1 and v:2 in the body (But not in the header)
b) remove Hp from the key signature - Harmony does not support pipes key 
signatures
c) replace the back quotes by upright quotes - maybe HARMONY got this 
wrong? please let me know.
I was working from the abc v2 draft, which does seem to leave a lot out.
d) remove the word merge (What does it do?)

V:1   midi program 1 11 transpose -12
V:2  midi program 1 46
M:C|
L:1/8
Q:1/2=104
K:E Hp
[V:1]  Be'''eg  ge'''Bg  | gf`''''eBgB''''eg   |[1 
 Be'''eg ge'''Bg  | fd'''Ad  fagf :|
[V:2]   {d}xx{A}xx   {a}xx{g}xx  |  {a}xx{gef}xx 
{a}xx{g}xx   |[1   {a}xx{A}xx  {a}xx{g}xx  |{afg}xx{e}xx   {g} :|




Neil Jennings







At 06:01 PM 4/15/04, you wrote:

Warning, message is this wide 
->|

I sometimes find I'd like to either transcribe the melody notes from
a bagpipe score before adding the gracenotes, or extract a version of
the tune with the gracenotes removed.  One way to do that would be to
put the melody and gracenotes in different voices and merge them for
playback or printing.  Like this (with the added oddity that I've
assigned the melody and gracenotes to dfferent instruments, neither
of them the bagpipe):
X:1
T:The Little Cascade
S:MacLennan's collection
C:G.S. MacLennan
V:1   midi program 1 11 transpose -12
V:2 merge midi program 1 46
M:C|
L:1/8
Q:1/2=104
K:E Hp
V:1  Be```eg  ge```Bg  | gf`eBgB```eg   |[1 
Be```eg ge```Bg  | fd```Ad  fagf :|
V:2   {d}xx{A}xx   {a}xx{g}xx  |  {a}xx{gef}xx 
{a}xx{g}xx   |[1   {a}xx{A}xx  {a}xx{g}xx  |{afg}xx{e}xx   {g} :|
%
V:1  [2 
Be```eg ge```Bg  | fagf f2e3/|:\
g/|  fB```gf  eg```Bg  | fBag g2f>g |
V:2  [2 
{a}xx{A}xx  {a}xx{g}xx  |  {a}{gfg}x2{eA}x3/|:\
x/| {afg}xx{a}xx   {g}xx{a}xx  |{afg}  {a}x2{fe}x>x |
%
V:1 
fB```gf eg```Bg  | fagf f2e3/:|\
g/|: G2   Be  Be```ge  | g2   fg  eg```Be   |
V:2 
{afg}xx{a}xx  {g}xx{a}xx  |  {a}{gfg}x2{eA}x3/:|\
x/|:{aGd}x2{d}xx   {g}xx{a}xx  | {gf}x2{a}xx   {a}xx{a}xx   |
%
V:1  [1  G2   Be  Be```ge  | fd```Ad  fagf :|[2 
G2   Be ge```Bg  | fagf f2e3/||
V:2  [1 {gGd}x2{d}xx   {g}xx{a}xx  |{gfg}xx{e}xx   {g} :|[2 
{gGd}x2{d}xx  {a}xx{g}xx  |  {a}{gfg}x2{eA}x3/||
%
V:1 
f/|  g```efg  efg```e  | f```def  def```d   | 
g```efg efg```e  | fag```f  f2e3/:|
V:2 
x/|  x{a}xxx   {a}xxx{a}x  | x{g}xxx   {g}xxx{g}x   | 
x{a}xxx  {a}xxx{a}x  | xxx{a}x {gfg}x2{eA}x3/:|
%
V:1 
g/|  Be```gf  e2 fd| Be```df  ed```B```A| 
Be```gf  e2 fd| Be```df  f2e3/:|
V:2 x/|   {a}xx{a}xx {GdG}x2  {g}xx|  {g}xx{g}xx 
{gef}xx{g}x{d}x|{d}xx{a}xx {GdG}x2  {g}xx|  {g}xx{g}xx {gfg}x2{eA}x3/:|
%
V:1 
g/|  Gd```Be  df e2| gfge Bega  |[1 
Gd```Be  df e2|
V:2 
x/|   {a}xx{g}xx   {g}xx{gef}x2|  {a}  {g}  |[1 
xx{g}xx   {g}xx{gef}x2|
%
V:1 
Be```df  f2e3/:|\
 [2  gfge fd```ed  | Be```df  f2e2 |]
V:2 
{g}xx{g}xx {gfg}x2{eA}x3/:|\
 [2  {ga}  {g}xx{g}xx  |  {g}xx{g}xx {gfg}x2{eA}x2 |]

In practice, BarFly can play that okay, but display hits one of the
spots where there's a red warning triangle on the roadway and Phil
can be seen standing by it with a shovel.  Does any program get it
right?
-
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack> * food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM "Embro, Embro".
--> off-list mail to "j-c" rather than "abc" at this site, please <--
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Re: [abcusers] something that ought to work...

[Neil Jennings]

Obvoiusly, HARMONY does not yet implement MERGE because I didn't know about 
it. The example can be imported and played, but will display on two 
separate staves - not what is wanted!
Incidentally, HARMONY provides an option to specify the length of grace 
notes. This can make a big difference to the sound.

I will also have to add backquote as a separator.
Is there any other source of abc definition apart from draft 2.0? Things 
like merge do not seem to be in there.
I presume this must be an extension supported by specific software?

At 07:45 PM 4/15/04, you wrote:

On 15 Apr 2004, at 18:54, Neil Jennings wrote:

If you make a couple of small changes, my program HARMONY can deal with it

a) Put [ and ] around the v:1 and v:2 in the body (But not in the header)
OK either way in BarFly, but the way Neil suggests is the way you should have
done it, as the other way is deprecated, and may not be supported in future.
b) remove Hp from the key signature - Harmony does not support pipes key 
signatures
BarFly does support pipes signatures, but you can't have both, so "E Hp" 
is wrong
(they're different keys anyway).

c) replace the back quotes by upright quotes - maybe HARMONY got this 
wrong? please let me know.
I was working from the abc v2 draft, which does seem to leave a lot out.
Back quotes are just text spacers and should have no effect on the 
interpretation of the abc.
Upright quote (ascii apostrophe) shifts the pitch of a note up by an octave.

d) remove the word merge (What does it do?)
It means draw the second voice on the same staff as the first.

Phil Taylor

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Re: [abcusers] something that ought to work...

[Neil Jennings]

Just a thought  - are the text spacers supposed to have any effect on the 
score, or just space the abc listing?



At 07:45 PM 4/15/04, you wrote:

On 15 Apr 2004, at 18:54, Neil Jennings wrote:

If you make a couple of small changes, my program HARMONY can deal with it

a) Put [ and ] around the v:1 and v:2 in the body (But not in the header)
OK either way in BarFly, but the way Neil suggests is the way you should have
done it, as the other way is deprecated, and may not be supported in future.
b) remove Hp from the key signature - Harmony does not support pipes key 
signatures
BarFly does support pipes signatures, but you can't have both, so "E Hp" 
is wrong
(they're different keys anyway).

c) replace the back quotes by upright quotes - maybe HARMONY got this 
wrong? please let me know.
I was working from the abc v2 draft, which does seem to leave a lot out.
Back quotes are just text spacers and should have no effect on the 
interpretation of the abc.
Upright quote (ascii apostrophe) shifts the pitch of a note up by an octave.

d) remove the word merge (What does it do?)
It means draw the second voice on the same staff as the first.

Phil Taylor

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Re: [abcusers] Current specification - Deathlike appearance.

[Neil Jennings]

At 06:10 PM 4/22/04, you wrote:

2.  if I've got this right, it would seem to be like shooting
oneself in the foot to approve (eg)  !pp! now as a dynamic (for
1.7.6) only to deprecate it in v2 and say one must use +pp+,  and
then use ! as a line break, especially as there is nothing in the
file (or is there?) to indicate whether it is an abc1.7.6 or abc2
file.
In 2.0, there is a %% directive in which the version is specified.
I would expect that this would be mandatory if the file is written 
using  2.0 standard or later, otherwise
there wouldn't be much point in having it.
Neil

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Re: [abcusers] !Current specification!

[Neil Jennings]

The draft standard seems to contain many things which make life difficult
for parsers. A bit of proper design could have avoided this.
I shoud throw my parser away and start again - but it would take some time!
There is so much else to write without having to waste time reinventing
wheels.

- Original Message -
From: "Christian M. Cepel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 23 April 2004 15:32
Subject: Re: [abcusers] !Current specification!


> I was thinking about this last night...and I don't see a problem with
> parsing for a *x* token, a !x! token and ! at the end of a line, even if
> there are whitespace characters between ! and your EOL token.  A
> backwards compatible, or version insensitive parser, which would be the
> kindest to your end user who may have grabbed a tune off the net, and
> not even have looked at the abc, or know even how to edit the abc, would
> be the best option not insensitive about all things, but kind enough
> to recognize that !x! is valid 1.7.6 stuff and display it.  You could
> even make your software encourage use of the newer constructs."Your
> tune contains outdated notation that can easily be brought up to date
> w/o changing the way it displays or sounds when played.  Would you like
> to update the notation? Y/N"   A bit Microsoft word-esk, but even so.
>
> Would this not be so?
>
>
> Btw, abcmusicnotation.org and abcnotation.org should be well on their
> way, propagating through dns servers and available to most.
>
>
> David Webber wrote:
>
> >From: "Neil Jennings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
> >>In 2.0, there is a %% directive in which the version is specified.
> >>I would expect that this would be mandatory if the file is written
> >>using  2.0 standard or later, otherwise
> >>there wouldn't be much point in having it.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Ok that helps.  But it still seems pretty silly making a new
> >official standard (1.7.6) with !pp! while the draft 2.0 standard
> >deprecates it in favour of using ! for something else and using
> >+pp+.
> >
> >Dave
> >David Webber
> >Author MOZART the music processor for Windows -
> >http://www.mozart.co.uk
> >For discussion/support see
> >http://www.mozart.co.uk/mzusers/mailinglist.htm
> >
> >To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>   //Christian
>
> Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned &
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980  | are nesting; In the hollow of
> 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once
> 65203-2202 573.999.2370   | had been; And he lifts up his
> Computer Support Specialist, Sr.  | arms in a blessing; For being
> University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins
>
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

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Re: [abcusers] !Current specification!

[Neil Jennings]

Sounds a great idea, but I would probably not be able to contribute, as I am
locked into VB.
I presume any such parser would have to create the output as an object
suitable for use by all the other programs.
Design of this would be a major undertaking.
Neil


- Original Message -
From: "Christian M. Cepel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 23 April 2004 20:34
Subject: Re: [abcusers] !Current specification!


> Might it not be interesting to start a project on Sourceforge with CVS
> tracking for a centralized open source parser module or engine that can
> be utilized by everyone?
>
> If the parser were being written in lockstep with the specification,
> proper design might indeed be the result.  Kindof an evolution meets
> extreme programming approach. (Not that I really ever understood Extreme
> programming).
>
> Would anyone else be interested in such?
>
> Neil Jennings wrote:
>
> >The draft standard seems to contain many things which make life difficult
> >for parsers. A bit of proper design could have avoided this.
> >I shoud throw my parser away and start again - but it would take some
time!
> >There is so much else to write without having to waste time reinventing
> >wheels.
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "Christian M. Cepel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: 23 April 2004 15:32
> >Subject: Re: [abcusers] !Current specification!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>I was thinking about this last night...and I don't see a problem with
> >>parsing for a *x* token, a !x! token and ! at the end of a line, even if
> >>there are whitespace characters between ! and your EOL token.  A
> >>backwards compatible, or version insensitive parser, which would be the
> >>kindest to your end user who may have grabbed a tune off the net, and
> >>not even have looked at the abc, or know even how to edit the abc, would
> >>be the best option not insensitive about all things, but kind enough
> >>to recognize that !x! is valid 1.7.6 stuff and display it.  You could
> >>even make your software encourage use of the newer constructs."Your
> >>tune contains outdated notation that can easily be brought up to date
> >>w/o changing the way it displays or sounds when played.  Would you like
> >>to update the notation? Y/N"   A bit Microsoft word-esk, but even so.
> >>
> >>Would this not be so?
> >>
> >>
> >>Btw, abcmusicnotation.org and abcnotation.org should be well on their
> >>way, propagating through dns servers and available to most.
> >>
> >>
> >>David Webber wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: "Neil Jennings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>In 2.0, there is a %% directive in which the version is specified.
> >>>>I would expect that this would be mandatory if the file is written
> >>>>using  2.0 standard or later, otherwise
> >>>>there wouldn't be much point in having it.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Ok that helps.  But it still seems pretty silly making a new
> >>>official standard (1.7.6) with !pp! while the draft 2.0 standard
> >>>deprecates it in favour of using ! for something else and using
> >>>+pp+.
> >>>
> >>>Dave
> >>>David Webber
> >>>Author MOZART the music processor for Windows -
> >>>http://www.mozart.co.uk
> >>>For discussion/support see
> >>>http://www.mozart.co.uk/mzusers/mailinglist.htm
> >>>
> >>>To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
> >>>
> >>>
> >http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>
> >>  //Christian
> >>
> >>Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned &
> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980  | are nesting; In the hollow of
> >>371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once
> >>65203-2202 573.999.2370   | had been; And he lifts up his
> >>Computer Support Specialist, Sr.  | arms in a blessing; For being
> >>University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins
> >>
> >>To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
> >>
> >>
> >http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
> >
> >To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>   //Christian
>
> Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned &
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980  | are nesting; In the hollow of
> 371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once
> 65203-2202 573.999.2370   | had been; And he lifts up his
> Computer Support Specialist, Sr.  | arms in a blessing; For being
> University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.--Rich Mullins
>
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
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Re: [abcusers] !Current specification!

[Neil Jennings]

Rubbish. To be useful, the parser should be a procedure with an API which
can be called from a standard
executable program. If you produce an acsii file, you have just replaced one
problem with another.


- Original Message -
From: "Bernard Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 25 April 2004 13:29
Subject: Re: [abcusers] !Current specification!


> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Stephen Kellett
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
> >C++ Surely? C is very restrictive in comparison. Writing object based
> >code in C is hard work (read: un-necessary extra code, and lack of type
> >safety) compared to C++.
> >
> >Java and C# are not worthwhile alternatives. Both quite restrictive
> >because nothing is truly passed as a reference (try modifying a string
> >object you pass in and see if it really was changed after the method
> >call - if it was really passed as a reference it would be). Makes
> >things trivial in C and C++ a real pain in Java and C#.
> >
> >Stephen
>
> In my opinion any parser should produce ascii code and be
> self-contained, written as a command-line procedure using stdin and
> stdout
>
> abcparse outputfilename
>
>
> The structure of the outputfile would probably obey some sort of XML
> language (although I hate it).
>
> --
> Bernard Hill
> Braeburn Software
> Author of Music Publisher system
> Music Software written by musicians for musicians
> http://www.braeburn.co.uk
> Selkirk, Scotland
>
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
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Re: [abcusers] AlphabetSoup output data structures

[Neil Jennings]

At 08:21 AM 5/9/04, you wrote:

Or, perhaps, by having a note object contain a list of (zero or 
more) pitch objects rather than just one pitch value. A noteobject with 
a duration and no pitch objects would, of course, be a rest.

The problem with this is that the duration would be the same for all notes 
within the object

I'd like to reiterate what I'd suggested earlier, that an application 
processing a tune, whether converting it into sound or into sheet music, 
will want to obtain successive lists of the note objects that occur 
simultaneously across the voices.
Harmony does this by a free standing 'merge' function, which could, I 
suppose, be made into a method
Neil

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Re: [abcusers] File names

[Neil Jennings]

The abc 2.0 draft has the following 


%%abc-charset iso-8859-1  (or
other iso code)

Neil


At 04:25 PM 4/29/04, you wrote:
Jack Campin wrote:

Would
not a charset specifier be a good addition?  (if there is already
such, I shall be most embarrassed... as I am pretty much every 
day).
A rule such as, if you use something specific to a charset, you must
specify it otherwise expect it to be 7bit ascii and display 
wrongly.
   

This is something so basic it really has to be at the start of a
file
or tune.  How about something like

  X:43 [charset=UTF-8]

for tunes or

  X:[charset=UTF-8]

(with no index number) in files?

One problem: what if you want to mix character sets in a tune? -
e.g. to have a Chinese song documented in English? (T: and w:
fields in Chinese, N: and D: fields in English).

 
It was my understanding that all unicode character sets
contain English characters mapped to the same values they're mapped to in
other sets.

-
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131
6604760

* food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM
"Embro, Embro".
--> off-list mail to "j-c" rather than "abc"
at this site, please <--


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-- 

 //Christian

Christian Marcus
Cepel    |
And the wrens have returned &
[EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980  | are nesting; In the hollow
of
371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where
his heart once
65203-2202
573.999.2370  
| had been; And he lifts up his
Computer Support Specialist, Sr.  | arms in a blessing; For
being
University of Missouri - Columbia | born again.    --Rich
Mullins

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Re: [abcusers] 4 Days of absolute silence - AlphabetSoup

[Neil Jennings]

I think this is too low a level to make a start.
Details  of the code should wait until the requirements are agreed.
In the standard development process, high-level requirements are the first 
deliverable, followed by low-level or detailed requirements.

High level requirements define what we want to achive.
They are usually categorised by being Mandatory, Desirable or Optional
Examples:
Mandatory: The parser will accept abc tunebooks of all versions up to 2.0
Mandatory: A tune may be specified by the tune number within the tunebook, 
as identified by the X: command
Desirable: A tune may be specified by tune name. In the case of multiple 
matches, a choice will be offered
Mandatory: The parser will be able to return a list of tunes within a tunebook
Optional: The list of tunes should be capable of being sorted into tune 
name sequence
Mandatory: The parser will be able to find and parse all elements related 
to a single (specified) tune
(i.e file headers, declaratives, and tune definition)

You could include a requirement that the parser should not be affected by 
parallel changes to the abc tunebook.
(i.e in low-level terms it would need to buffer the input in some manner)

Naturally, the requirements may well be subject to constraints imposed by 
the intended platform(s)

Use of file references, URLs etc would be included, if appropriate, in the 
Technical section of the low-level requirements.

The actual design should not be undertaken until the requirements are clear.
The output should probably be a tune object, or some textual equivalent 
such as an XML file.
This will depend on whether all target platforms support suitable objects, 
or not.

Output format:
My program HARMONY has a set of classes which I would be prepared to offer 
as a starting point for discussion (but they are in VB at present).

It has a TUNE class, VOICE class and NOTE class
A TUNE can hold a number of VOICES
A Voice can hold a number of NOTEs, which are structured as a bidirectional 
linked list
(Notes include all musical items, including bars, time and key signatures, 
tempo, instrumentation etc)
NOTE methods include one to return the actual pitch of a note, as modified 
by the current key definition and any preceding accidentals in a bar.

The main restriction at present is that it cannot hold polyphonic voices, 
but this could be overcome by providing multiple threads within a voice.






At 08:18 PM 5/4/04, you wrote:
Kindof quiet 'round here.   Quiet... Too Quiet...
Let us see if this poser will liven things up.  I would see this as being 
the first considerations in our parser project.  Perhaps I am wrong.  I 
want to learn, so if you've a more knowledgeable answer, please speak up!

I had envisioned the parser working with a controlling program thus...
o  Program is responsible for helping the user to navigate the filesystem 
(including url locations) to locate the file to be parsed.

This creates two scenarios.
1.  In the case of a local file, the file is locked for access.  File 
reference is passed to the parser.
2.  In the case of a non local file, or an 'unsaved' buffer in the 
program, a file reference is not appropriate.

Questions.
In scenario 1, would locking the file prevent parser access?   Should the 
parser handle locking/unlocking?  If the file is locked by the program to 
prevent simultaneous access, would the parser then be able to traverse the 
file contents through the reference?  Perhaps in writing a parser, it's 
best that the programmer not _have_ to worry about access rules, and 
should simply write an interface to locate a file and let the parser & OS 
handle file access and such.

In scenario 2, since we are writing a universal parser to be robust and 
scalable, able to handle a tunefile containing 1 or a google tunes as 
efficiently as possible, and probably do not want to assume availability 
of enough allocatable memory to either copy an entire buffer into memory 
to parse, do we want to write out a temporary file to be cleaned up once 
the parse session is terminated?  In the case of a network stream, perhaps 
someone writes a program letting you select a file via URI, that file 
would need to be somewhere locally, and it's not safe to depend on browser 
caching, or to assume universal access to such.

I assume we want the tunefile's state to remain static while the parse 
session is active... Yes?
If the parser on first-pass is simply locating tune extents, we would then 
have some funny results if the file was changed and those extents were 
referenced on a second pass only to find that the extents were altered.


//Christian
--
 //Christian
Christian Marcus Cepel| And the wrens have returned &
[EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980  | are nesting; In the hollow of
371 Crown Point, Columbia, MO | that oak where his heart once
65203-2202 573.999.2370   | had been; And he lifts up his
Computer Support Specialist, Sr.  | arms in a blessing; For being
University of Missouri - Co

Re: [abcusers] AlphabetSoup output data structures

[Neil Jennings]

All this is pretty much irrelevant. Within a polyphonic voice, notes are 
not necessarily related to other simultaneous notes by any of start time, 
end time or duration, therefore trying to put more than one pitch on a note 
object is not a solution.

At 02:08 AM 5/13/04, you wrote:
Bernard Hill writes:
| In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Neil
| Jennings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
| >Or, perhaps, by having a note object contain a list of (zero or
| >more) pitch objects rather than just one pitch value. A noteobject
| >with a duration and no pitch objects would, of course, be a rest.
| >
| >The problem with this is that the duration would be the same for all
| >notes within the object
|
| That's a standard rule of music. You can't put black and white notes on
| the same stem for instance.
Actually, this isn't a rule at all.   Music  printers  routinely  put
white and black note heads on the same stem. They also put dots after
some of the note heads and not others.  You see this all the time  in
keyboard  and guitar music, where damping individual notes in a chord
is fairly easy.  You also see it in choral music, where one voice can
continue after others stop.
The  problem  is  that  standard  staff  notation  has  some  serious
limitations  on  what  note lengths can be combined on a single stem.
They all have to have the same number of flags,  for  instance.   But
this  isn't  really  a  "rule";  it's  just  a defect in the physical
representation.
It's also fairly  common  to  have  a  (dotted)  whole  note  aligned
vertically  with  notes  on  a  stem,  though  there are some obvious
limitations on where you can do this.
Also, it's fairly common to have some (but not  necessarily  all)  of
the notes on a stem have ties to a continuation note.
ABC has a somewhat more general representation of a "chord" of notes,
since  each note can have an arbitrary length.  But it has some other
limitations that aren't present in staff notation.  For  example,  in
guitar  (and  some  keyboard) music, you'll see notes with "dangling"
ties that don't lead to another note. This means "let it ring", which
can be done on those instruments.
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Re: [abcusers] reusable parser

[Neil Jennings]

It's looking promising so far, but as pointed out, maybe not a good idea to 
parse an entire abc tunebook in one go.
It should at least have a selective option.

The main idea behind a common parser would be to enforce a single and 
unambiguous version of the format.
Currently, there are many extensions, some incompatible.

The consequence is that it MUST be available to all the common languages 
and platforms, either as a single executable, or multiple instances of the 
SAME logic, or even source code, Linux style.

This does place restrictions on the output format and design. For example, 
callbacks as suggested in one reply may not be available in the language in 
use.

(I hesitate to suggest it,  as I rejected the idea of ASCII output, but 
MusicXML might be a useful format, at least as an option, as there is 
already an XML parser available)

At 01:15 PM 4/26/04, you wrote:
What a coincidence!
I recently discovered ABC, and decided that writing an ABC parser would be a
great way to get up to speed on Boost's Spirit library. For details on
spirit, see http://spirit.sourceforge.net/
I decided to get on this list to see if there were already resources
available for parsing.
I'm a C++ programmer, so I would want the parser written in C++.
I've just started playing with it, but here are my musings so far:
I see two tasks: agreeing on the data structure that is the output, and
actually writing the parser. I envision a function that looks something like
this:
bool bSuccess = ParseABC(const char* szSource, CMusic& output,
CParsingErrors& errors);
Where output is a complex structure that contains a list of tunes, where
each tune is a list of directives, and a list of lines made up of a list of
notes, bar lines, etc.
Creating the CMusic structure so that anything legal in the current or a
future version of ABC can be expressed is crucial.
CParsingErrors would be a list of errors it found with enough info that a
smart program could help the user identify the problem. If possible, even
with a syntax error, CMusic should contain as much as it can figure out
safely, perhaps with a marker to the places that have syntax errors.
It would be hard for me to envision a way to create the CMusic structure so
that it would be readable in C or VB, because it would probably make heavy
use of container classes. A wrapper could be provided, though.
Anyway, as soon as I started thinking about actually doing something with
this, I got very busy. I won't have much time to do anything except discuss
until mid summer, but after that point, if I can help, I'd be happy to.
Paul Rosen
--- Life is a musical, every once in a while
  the plot stops and you start singing and dancing ---
http://home.earthlink.net/~paulerosen/brbb/
http://home.earthlink.net/~theplums/

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Re: [abcusers] reusable parser

[Neil Jennings]

It is best practice NOT to change an interface once it is established.
You MUST add a new interface for the changes, or risk losing backwards 
compatibility.

At 06:45 PM 4/26/04, you wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2004, at 03:47 pm, Stephen Kellett wrote:
If you needed to change an API, you'd create an Ex() version of it, ala 
Microsoft
Yuk. Please do not fall prey to the habits of an 800-lb gorilla. 
Microsoft's bad
design habits should not be relied upon as any sort of "standard practice."

--
   The penalty that good men pay for not being interested in politics
   is to be governed by men worse than themselves.
-- Plato, philosopher (427-347 BCE)
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Re: [abcusers] reusable parser

[Neil Jennings]

Any sensible project should start with agreed requirements, which will be 
classified as
1. Mandatory
2. Desirable
3. Optional.

I suggest that the first stage should be requirement gathering - initially 
high-level.
Details of code should be left to a later stage.
We should also consider a format Change Request process by which changes 
can be approved later.
Having these in place will assist in management and control


At 04:30 AM 4/27/04, you wrote:
OK, I usually just shut up and lurk, but (perhaps) I might have a suggestion.
From: Jeff Szuhay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Here is yet another approach... It is an API which has the concept of
"opening" a song, getting 1 or more measures from it, and then "closing"
the song. I think in terms of C and C++ so please forgive the syntactical
stricnine.
ABCSong * pSong;
ABCMeasure * pMeasure;
pSong = new ABCSong( ... );  // allocates ABC song object for header 
info, voices, et.c

pSong->Open(  , , ... ); // open file, read song 
contents and info.
pSong->Verify(); // parse song to see if its valid // song is 
good, process it...
//Now, perhaps another way (More C++ ish. Sorry)
SongBookStreamReader sbs(filename);
while(sbs) {
 SongBook sb ;
 sbs >> sb ;
 SongStreamReader ssr(sb);
 while(ssr) {
   Song song ;
   ssr >> song;
   Measure measure ;
   MeasureStreamReader msr(song); // can also MeasureStreamReader(sb), &c
   while(msr) {
 msr >> measure;
 NoteStreamReader nsr(measure); // same can also here ...
 while(nsr) {
   Note note ;
   nsr >> note ;
// OK, do something with the note ...
 }
   }
 }
}
while(  pSong->MoreNotes() )
{
   ...
   ...
   pMeasure = pSong->GetMeasure(...);
   pMeasure.Play();
   pMeasure.Print( , ... );
  ,,,
  ,,,
}
pSong->Close();
while(pSong
...
This assumes defined objects ABCSong and ABCMeasure which I've invented 
surreptitiously.
I'm thinking along these lines because I want an ABC parser that I can 
process a measure
at a time. So this would be my initial stab at these needs; I don't know 
if this is ultimately
what I need.

Anyway, this simple model could be used for just playing, just 
printing/displaying, or both.

However, the idea of the ABCMeasure as an arbitrary aggregation of notes 
could further be
aggregated into a Line for printing and other notation adjustment.

In this manner, the interface is simple and direct. Versioning info can 
be embedded in the
objects themselves without the need for that nasty ...Ex() convention. 
Instead, there may
be some reflective API's like GetVersion() or GetCapability() on the 
parser/player that
would permit many more variants over a longer lifecycle.

--
   The penalty that good men pay for not being interested in politics
   is to be governed by men worse than themselves.
-- Plato, philosopher (427-347 BCE)
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Re: [abcusers] reusable parser

[Neil Jennings]

We seem to be drifting some way off the topic. (The number of buttons on a 
mouse, the case-sensitivity of filenames, etc.)

Requirements and feasibility should come first
The most fundamental requirement is that a single version of abc is parsed 
in only one way.
All dependent programs can then be sure of working with the same information.

It is very likely that the work for this would in itself result in a new 
version of abc, as many of the ambiguities are addressed.
This would then be THE definitive version, and be maintained under proper 
change control.

Some notes:
Why the need for an output? - as asked earlier
It all depends on whether we want to support non-object environments 
directly, or maybe write some kind of extract process.

Do we need a single executable?
e.g. Although a common executable would be ideal, executables derived from 
a common source would be acceptable.
C++ or a variant of it still looks the strongest contender

Neil
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[abcusers] ANN: New version of HARMONY (3.2.9)

[Neil Jennings]

I have now released a new version of HARMONY
HARMONY is a music editor and player which can import abc, including 
multi-voice files and aligned lyrics. It's original intention was to add 
chords and accompaniments to a melody, but it now does much more.

The latest changes include an Edit Selected menu, to allow the same 
change to be applied to all selected notes. Also chord symbols can now 
be imported from aligned lyrics, for example

w: [G]This is [Am] an [Bb] example
The chord is aligned to the same note as the following word
Harmony is shareware and can be downloaded from my web site 
http://www.greenhedges.com


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Re: [abcusers] What software will translate this correctly?

[Neil Jennings]

My program HARMONY does a reasonable job, although the transpose -24 
isn't  reflected in the score display, and it therefore automatically 
adjusts the clef to Treble! It also looks a bit odd where the tune 
crosses from treble to bass clef  (using Open score mode)

I am not quite sure what (T  signifies, I will have to look it up. The 
program has taken it as a slur

You could also add instrumentation directives for MIDI use.
Harmony is found at www.greenhedges.com, free for a trial period.
Steve Wyrick wrote:
I apologize if this is a duplicate post; I sent this yesterday but haven't
seen it appear on the list, and I discovered a problem with my sending
address which I think prevented it from going out.
I just completed a transcription of Robert Petrie's 1st tunebook (Scottish,
1790), which has parts for violin and cello.  I wrote the code using Phil
Taylor's BarFly, on which this reads and plays correctly, but it appears
that a lot of other abc software can't handle the multiple voices.  Below is
a sample tune; I'd be interested to know what other readers and midi players
can handle this code, especially any PC software (for reference, the 2nd
note in the 3rd staff bass line is middle C).  Thanks for any help, or
suggestions for improving the portability of this code! -Steve
X:2
T:Mrs. Farquharson's Jigg or Quick Step
C:Robert Petrie
S:Petrie's Collection of Strathspey Reels and Country Dances &c., 1790
Z:Steve Wyrick , 3/20/04
N:Petrie's First Collection, page 2
L:1/8
V:1 name = "violin"
V:2 name = "bass" clef=bass middle=d transpose=-24
M:6/8
R:Jig
K:Cm
[V:1] G|(Tc=Bc) GEC|(Tc=Bc) edc|(Tc=Bc) G=A_B| FGE DCB, |
[V:2] z|C3  E3 |  F3G3 | c3 e3   | d2f b2B  |
%Petrie's original does not have the B flatted in the third measure -SW
[V:1]   (Tc=Bc) GEC|cde dec|=BGgfed  | ecc c2  :|
[V:2]   c3  e3 |  a3f3 | g2 e   g2G  | c3  C2  :|
[V:1] c|(Tgfg)  edc|(Tgfg)  fed|(Tgfg)  cde  |=Bcd G3   |
[V:2] z|c3  c'3| =b3g3 | e3 f3   | g3  gaf  |
[V:1]   (Tgfg)  edc|(Tgfg)  fed| efgfed  | ecc c3   |
[V:2]   e3  c3 | =B3G3 | c2eg2G  | c3  CEG  |
[V:1]   (Tgfg)  edc|(Tgfg)  fed|(Tgfg)  cde  |=Bcd G2F  |
[V:2]   c3  c'3| =b3g3 | c3 f3   | g3  G=A=B|
[V:1]   EDC FED| GFEAGF| Gedcd=B | c2c c2  |]
[V:2]   c3  G3 | c3 f3 | e2fg2G  | cGE C2  |]
% The above code was written using Phil Taylor's BarFly abc
reader/composer/player program.
% Other abc readers (e.g. abc2ps) may require everything after the word
"bass" to be 
% deleted in the V:2 header line for correct display of notes the bass clef,
or require that 
% the M: and K: fields be repeated directly under the V:1 header line to
display the meter
% and key signature on both staffs.

 

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Re: [abcusers] What software will translate this correctly?

[Neil Jennings]

I forgot. Yes, HARMONY did recognise the T as a trill, but this is not 
yet displayed. HARMONY was never intended as a scoring package, so many 
of the decorators are ignored.
You CAN implement an audible trill using the Note Style facility, but it 
is not yet integrated with the abc import.

John Chambers wrote:
Neil Jennings writes:
|  My program HARMONY does a reasonable job, although the transpose -24
| isn't  reflected in the score display, and it therefore automatically
| adjusts the clef to Treble! It also looks a bit odd where the tune
| crosses from treble to bass clef  (using Open score mode)
Actually, the "clef=bass middle=d" should suffice to  get  the  notes
positioned  on the staff correctly.  The "transpose=-24" is mostly of
interest when generating a sound file, saying that the notes  are  to
sound  two  octaves below the default pitch.  It can be handy to have
these note-to-staff and note-to-pitch mappings independent. People do
write music for instruments with several different ranges on the same
part of the staff.
| I am not quite sure what (T  signifies, I will have to look it up. The
| program has taken it as a slur
It usually means a trill, the "TR"  ligature  above  the  note.   But
there's a scheme to (re)define ornaments now.  I wonder how widely it
has been implemented?
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Re: [abcusers] What software will translate this correctly?

[Neil Jennings]

I have implemented the transpose clause on the sound, but I wasn't sure 
about the score. You have confirmed that transpose should not be 
reflected there. My progam does not yet implement the 'middle' clause, 
and automatically positions the notes on the score according to pitch. 
There are also differences between the various display modes available.

John Chambers wrote:
Neil Jennings writes:
|  My program HARMONY does a reasonable job, although the transpose -24
| isn't  reflected in the score display, and it therefore automatically
| adjusts the clef to Treble! It also looks a bit odd where the tune
| crosses from treble to bass clef  (using Open score mode)
Actually, the "clef=bass middle=d" should suffice to  get  the  notes
positioned  on the staff correctly.  The "transpose=-24" is mostly of
interest when generating a sound file, saying that the notes  are  to
sound  two  octaves below the default pitch.  It can be handy to have
these note-to-staff and note-to-pitch mappings independent. People do
write music for instruments with several different ranges on the same
part of the staff.
| I am not quite sure what (T  signifies, I will have to look it up. The
| program has taken it as a slur
It usually means a trill, the "TR"  ligature  above  the  note.   But
there's a scheme to (re)define ornaments now.  I wonder how widely it
has been implemented?
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Re: [abcusers] What software will translate this correctly?

[Neil Jennings]

My HARMONY is not to be confused with Harmony Assistant, of course. I 
believe I was first to use the name, back in 1996, but I may be wrong there.

Chuck Boody wrote:
Harmony Assistant makes total hash out of it.  only one part, 4/4 
meter etc...

Chuck Boody
=
On Wednesday, June 9, 2004, at 09:10  AM, Steve Wyrick wrote:
I apologize if this is a duplicate post; I sent this yesterday but 
haven't
seen it appear on the list, and I discovered a problem with my sending
address which I think prevented it from going out.

I just completed a transcription of Robert Petrie's 1st tunebook 
(Scottish,
1790), which has parts for violin and cello.  I wrote the code using 
Phil
Taylor's BarFly, on which this reads and plays correctly, but it appears
that a lot of other abc software can't handle the multiple voices.  
Below is
a sample tune; I'd be interested to know what other readers and midi 
players
can handle this code, especially any PC software (for reference, the 2nd
note in the 3rd staff bass line is middle C).  Thanks for any help, or
suggestions for improving the portability of this code! -Steve

X:2
T:Mrs. Farquharson's Jigg or Quick Step
C:Robert Petrie
S:Petrie's Collection of Strathspey Reels and Country Dances &c., 1790
Z:Steve Wyrick , 3/20/04
N:Petrie's First Collection, page 2
L:1/8
V:1 name = "violin"
V:2 name = "bass" clef=bass middle=d transpose=-24
M:6/8
R:Jig
K:Cm
[V:1] G|(Tc=Bc) GEC|(Tc=Bc) edc|(Tc=Bc) G=A_B| FGE DCB, |
[V:2] z|C3  E3 |  F3G3 | c3 e3   | d2f b2B  |
%Petrie's original does not have the B flatted in the third measure -SW
[V:1]   (Tc=Bc) GEC|cde dec|=BGgfed  | ecc c2  :|
[V:2]   c3  e3 |  a3f3 | g2 e   g2G  | c3  C2  :|
[V:1] c|(Tgfg)  edc|(Tgfg)  fed|(Tgfg)  cde  |=Bcd G3   |
[V:2] z|c3  c'3| =b3g3 | e3 f3   | g3  gaf  |
[V:1]   (Tgfg)  edc|(Tgfg)  fed| efgfed  | ecc c3   |
[V:2]   e3  c3 | =B3G3 | c2eg2G  | c3  CEG  |
[V:1]   (Tgfg)  edc|(Tgfg)  fed|(Tgfg)  cde  |=Bcd G2F  |
[V:2]   c3  c'3| =b3g3 | c3 f3   | g3  G=A=B|
[V:1]   EDC FED| GFEAGF| Gedcd=B | c2c c2  |]
[V:2]   c3  G3 | c3 f3 | e2fg2G  | cGE C2  |]
% The above code was written using Phil Taylor's BarFly abc
reader/composer/player program.
% Other abc readers (e.g. abc2ps) may require everything after the word
"bass" to be
% deleted in the V:2 header line for correct display of notes the 
bass clef,
or require that
% the M: and K: fields be repeated directly under the V:1 header line to
display the meter
% and key signature on both staffs.

--
Steve Wyrick -- Concord, California
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Re: [abcusers] Alternate endings?

[Neil Jennings]

Prog
John Chambers wrote:
Geoff Loker wrote:
| I have a song that has one ending to it for the first two verses, and a
| different
| ending for the last two verses.  What I would like to do is something
| akin to
| this:
|
| [1,2 D>E D4 C2 ||[3,4 D>E F2 z2 z2 ||
|
| in a similar fashion to the first and second repeat notation, but with
| the first
| ending being labeled "1,2" to indicate that it is used the first two
| times through,
| and the second ending being labeled "3,4".  Unfortunately, this doesn't
| appear to
| be kosher ABC.  Any suggestions as to how to do this?
Actually, this was decreed kosher by  popular  demand  several  years
ago,  and  it  has been implemented by a number of abc tools (but not
all of them).  You can use hyphens, too, to write something like
| ... [1-3 D>E D4 C2 :|[4 D>E F2 z2 z2 ||
Maybe we could get a poll of which abc tools implement this?
My abc2ps clone (jcabc2ps) implements it.  I also implemented general
text for endings, but to avoid ambiguity, quotes are required:
| ... [1-3 D>E D4 C2 :|["last time" D>E F2 z2 z2 |]
There wasn't as general agreement on this, but I've found  it  useful
in a few cases. The parse code that I wrote allows the quotes and the
[ to be omitted if the repeat text consists solely of digits,  commas
and hyphens.
It is common for printers to put periods after  the  number  in  this
repeat  text,  but  I  found  that  that produced a difficult parsing
ambiguity with the dot commonly used for staccatto, so  I  didn't  do
that.   (You can use the full ["..." notation if you really want that
final dot.)
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Re: [abcusers] Alternate endings?

[Neil Jennings]

Programs which actually make use of, and play, the chord names which are 
supposed to be in the quotes, wouldn't like this.

John Chambers wrote:
Geoff Loker wrote:
| I have a song that has one ending to it for the first two verses, and a
| different
| ending for the last two verses.  What I would like to do is something
| akin to
| this:
|
| [1,2 D>E D4 C2 ||[3,4 D>E F2 z2 z2 ||
|
| in a similar fashion to the first and second repeat notation, but with
| the first
| ending being labeled "1,2" to indicate that it is used the first two
| times through,
| and the second ending being labeled "3,4".  Unfortunately, this doesn't
| appear to
| be kosher ABC.  Any suggestions as to how to do this?
Actually, this was decreed kosher by  popular  demand  several  years
ago,  and  it  has been implemented by a number of abc tools (but not
all of them).  You can use hyphens, too, to write something like
| ... [1-3 D>E D4 C2 :|[4 D>E F2 z2 z2 ||
Maybe we could get a poll of which abc tools implement this?
My abc2ps clone (jcabc2ps) implements it.  I also implemented general
text for endings, but to avoid ambiguity, quotes are required:
| ... [1-3 D>E D4 C2 :|["last time" D>E F2 z2 z2 |]
There wasn't as general agreement on this, but I've found  it  useful
in a few cases. The parse code that I wrote allows the quotes and the
[ to be omitted if the repeat text consists solely of digits,  commas
and hyphens.
It is common for printers to put periods after  the  number  in  this
repeat  text,  but  I  found  that  that produced a difficult parsing
ambiguity with the dot commonly used for staccatto, so  I  didn't  do
that.   (You can use the full ["..." notation if you really want that
final dot.)
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Re: [abcusers] ABC parser output data structure.

[Neil Jennings]

A few points:

I too use a bidirectional linked list, mine is of note objects within
each voice. (Note objects include bar lines and other musical items)

My program (HARMONY) is written in VB -  I would hope to be able to use
the parser from that.

MusicXML uses the standard XML parser, I am experimenting with DOM3.
This parses the file as defined in its DTDs. But MusicXML has some
restrictions, and the files are VERY large.

For slurs and ties,  I mark all the intervening notes. But that is a
feature of my implementation, I suppose.

My program provides a percussion voice - this could easily be added to
the abc standard, in fact I think some programs provide this extension.
The same approach could be used as in MIDI, that the nominal pitch
actually denotes the type of percussion instrument. A preset bar of 
rhythm could then be applied as default to all bars of the tune. There
are some problems with incomplete lead-inbars though.

My biggest problem at the moment is with polyphonic voices. abc handles
them by a method which doesn't map onto simple linked lists of notes. 


Paul Rosen wrote:

  First of all, thanks for some great insights! I knew that I should post my
ideas here first before doing any coding.

  
  

  3. This is the data structure between the ABC parser and the
application.
There are two main applications: a sheet music formatter, and music
player.
I think other applications (like a transposer) would not have any
unique
demands on the structure.
  

As long as the structure contains all the information present in the
original abc it should be possible to perform any function which could
have
been done starting from scratch.

  
  
Yes, the trick is to contain the original ABC, as well as the
interpretation. We should be able to go backwards from the structure to the
original file, too.

  
  

  4. The goal is to have a flexible enough structure that additional
requirements would be handled without requiring fundamental changes to
the
structure. With luck, some additional requirements may be handled
without
any changes to the structure at all.
  

Anticipating future requirements is the difficult part.

  
  
Yes, that's why I used the words "with luck". In our case, we have the
advantage of being about to look at piles of existing sheet music from many
traditions and spanning centuries. If we're clever

  
  

  7. This structure is for a single tune. To do multiple tunes, you can
simply
have an array of these.
8. Everything possible should be interpreted as much as possible. In
other
words, a chord of "Gm" would be stored as a G minor chord, not the text
"Gm". This allows the player to not need to do any parsing.
9. however, the original wording should be available if needed. In
other
words, "GM" and "G" are both a G major chord. Some formatting programs
may
wish to use one or the other exclusively, or may choose to parrot
whatever
was specified.
  

Not too sure about this.  A guitar chord like "Gm" can imply much more
than
just a Gm chord at that point - the chord continues until the next chord
symbol, and can have a complex rhythmic structure.  Producing this from
the simple text "Gm" is a matter of interpretation, and probably belongs
in a player program, rather than in the first-stage parser.

  
  
I'm not sure I completely understand what you are saying. I think that we
would put the chord in only once, and the player would know to continue the
chord until the next chord is specified. The rhythm is an interesting
problem. I don't think there is a way to indicate what the rhythm is in ABC.
The simplest form would be a header element that would say the equivolent of
"play all chords as boom-chick with alternating bass", and the more complex
form would be to specify an entire rhythm part that varies. That sounds way
beyond the scope of this, but its something to keep in mind so that it could
be added.

  
  
If we are going to write this out to disk, would it not be better to
adopt
an existing public format (e.g. NIFF or MusicXML), rather than create a
new
one?  In any case, pointers are not a problem, as you can simply convert
them to file offsets.

  
  
I wasn't aware of MusicXML (I'm pretty new at this!). I think you are
absolutely right that we shouldn't make up a new disk format.

MusicXML requires its own parser though, so I don't think that is the right
format to pass between the parser and the formatter/player. Figuring out
what goes in the structure just became easier, though. I should support
exactly what MusicXML supports. I've just glanced at it so far, but I plan
to spend some time on it when I can.

  
  

  16. The body is an array of items. These items define a particular
vertical
space on the notation, and a particular time for the player. Note that
the
amount of space and amount of time is variable for each item. A simple
example follows. Three possible items are a whole n

Re: [abcusers] Copyright Issues ... One More Kick At The Can

[Neil Jennings]

Apparently, in the UK, the PRS just split it up amongst the big boys. 
They can't be bothered with  keeping track of small amounts (Except when 
collecting it!), so only the top-selling people get anything at all. 
There have been many discussions of this at The Mudcat Cafe (www.mudcat.org)

Chuck Boody wrote:
I don't mean to extend this discussion.  My one comment and only 
comment is below:

On Monday, July 26, 2004, at 09:35  PM, Paul Rosen wrote:
Therein lies the crux of the matter.  The only one ever
benefiting (at least with the exception of "maybe" 10% or
so) is ASCAP or RIAA or whoever owns the rights to the work.

That is the weird thing about making the Girl Scouts pay a lump sum. Who
gets the money? Let's say a troop in Kansas played a song I wrote. 
How would
I get my pennies?

That is the truly interesting thing.  My community band pays ASCAP and 
BMI licenses to allow us to perform the works we use without problem.  
But, we are not asked for any repertoire lists.  Clearly the split of 
money is a complex issue.  Why is it that I keep thinking the 
licensing agencies get more than their share?  Or that the "big guys" 
get more than their share?  Just cynical I guess.  I'm sure it was 
only happenstance that important copyrights from Disney and from the 
American popular song world were about to expire when the law 
changed.  Doubtless there were WMDs in Iraq too...but then I digress ;-<

Chuck Boody
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Re: [abcusers] ABC parser output data structure.

[Neil Jennings]

Restrictions:
MusicXML is restricted to what is defined in the DTDs as defined by
Recordare. There are many known restrictions, but these may not be in
areas which are important to abc.
The other problem is that musicXML is controlled by Recordare, who
decide what will be supported in each version. That is good in some
ways, but bad in others.

MusicXML can view a single tune in two different ways, partwise, ideal
for scores, and timewise, better for playing,  and you can convert
between them.

My program handles multiple voices, but separate voices do not address
my polyphonic single voice problem.

Neil

Paul Rosen wrote:

  
  
  
  
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Neil Jennings 
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent:
Monday, July 26, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject:
Re: [abcusers] ABC parser output data structure.


A few points:

I too use a bidirectional linked list, mine is of note objects within
each voice. (Note objects include bar lines and other musical items)

My program (HARMONY) is written in VB -  I would hope to be able to use
the parser from that.

MusicXML uses the standard XML parser, I am experimenting with DOM3.
This parses the file as defined in its DTDs. But MusicXML has some
restrictions, and the files are VERY large.

 
  
  Restrictions? What restrictions? At
first glance, it looked like MusicXML was pretty comprehensive. If it
isn't, that changes everything. It does create a large file, but I
don't think that is significant. It would just be an export format.
   
  The biggest advantage of MusicXML
that I see is that they've already figured out what data is important.
I was thinking that there would be a choice of output: MusicXML and the
"compiled" version that would be easy to work with. Both formats should
handle the same data.
  

For slurs and ties,  I mark all the intervening notes. But that is a
feature of my implementation, I suppose.

My program provides a percussion voice - this could easily be added to
the abc standard, in fact I think some programs provide this extension.
The same approach could be used as in MIDI, that the nominal pitch
actually denotes the type of percussion instrument. A preset bar of 
rhythm could then be applied as default to all bars of the tune. There
are some problems with incomplete lead-inbars though.

My biggest problem at the moment is with polyphonic voices. abc handles
them by a method which doesn't map onto simple linked lists of notes. 

  
  One insight I've gotten already from
MusicXML is that they handle multiple voices in two ways, because
different kinds of music use them differently. You can choose to handle
the voices separately or together. That sounds like the voice of
experience.
   
  Paul Rosen
--- Life is a musical, every once in a while
  the plot stops and you start singing and dancing ---
  http://home.earthlink.net/~catharsis.music/
  
  http://home.earthlink.net/~theplums/
  
   

Re: [abcusers] Exchange of songs

[Neil Jennings]

It is also wrong to advertise services for illegal copying!
Ulf Bro wrote:
It seems there are several of us who write sheet music for a band. I do so 
too. It is of course illegal to put any such songs on an internet homepage 
(if it is copyrighted material). But it might not be quite so illegal if we 
could find a method of writing data in Internet, stating who transcribed 
what.

One could then email the person in question and ask for a copy. The way things 
are at the moment there is no way to exchange jazz standards or rock songs or 
any contemporary pop music.

Ulf
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Re: [abcusers] How to transpose abc to abc?

[Neil Jennings]

My program HARMONY can import abc, transpose , and export abc.
The export may not be identical in appearance (e.g. a>b will become 
a3/2b/2) but should sound the same

see www.greenhedges.com for a download
Dijk, Arjan van wrote:
Hi,
Is there an option/switch to transpose abc-files into abc-files?
This can be useful when I want to combine abc-files, 
that have different keys, to form one tune.

Thanks,
Arjan van Dijk 
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [abcusers] ABC parser output data structure.

[Neil Jennings]

The point about using XML is that although it is a text format, parsers 
already exist on all platforms which can parse the XML, and hold the 
data in an object structure. You can then extract whatever information 
your application needs.

The existing MusicXML provides MOST of the features necessary.
The biggest plus about a universal parser is that we will all be working 
from the same abc definition. The project will probably result in a new, 
better, abc definition as some of the errors and omissions will be 
corrected in the process.
Neil

Christian M. Cepel wrote:
Steven Bennett wrote:
I was going to let this idea die quietly... 
If we were talking about creating a data interchange format, I'd 
agree 100%.

But we're talking about creating a general purpose front-end parser 
that can
be linked into assorted ABC programs so they don't have to write 
their own
parser.  Having the output of that be a text format defeats the whole
purpose, because each application would then need to write it's own 
parser
for *that* format.

 

This SPECIFICALLY is what has confused me regarding this whole 
discussion... When I proposed the idea of a universal parser, I stated 
with NO AMBIGUITY that it was not to generate  text.

It was to have a control API which would could be asked questions and 
return answers.

Once the file is parsed, a possible method would be list_titles(1,10) 
to return the primary titles of the first 10 tunes.

This is just an example...  not a well thought out API function...   
Anyways... an API of useful commands to glean information from the 
file, as well as commands to alter it.

I would not object if it had a function to generate_musicxml() or 
something like that, but that would not be it's primary function.


It's been suggested that such a second-stage parser would be a 
trivial job
to write.  As a programmer who has written a number of parsers of 
various
complexity over my career, and looking at the amount and complexity 
of the
data we're talking about, I'd have to say that "trivial" is 
doubtful.  It's
probably not a complex task, assuming the text format is designed 
properly,
is totally unambiguous, comprehensive, and flexible enough to do the 
job.
But it's bound to be tedious and time consuming.

I suggest anyone who thinks this is a trivial job should actually design
such an intermediate text format, and then try and write a parser for 
that
format.  Let me know how long it takes. ;-)

As a final thought - if anyone *really* wants to see text output from 
such a
parser, let the parser be written to output C structures or whatever the
programmers want, then they can write their own back end to the 
parser to
convert the output into any text output format desired.  It should be
relatively easy to do.  And everyone can be happy.

-->Steve Bennett
Jeff Szuhay wrote:
 

On Wednesday, July 28, 2004, at 03:43 pm, Bernard wrote:
[snip]
  

The maximum is ascii. You can even read it without a computer.
Flexibility is maximum in ascii. A new keyword is added and the old
software doesn't understand the keyword and will ignore it. The
problem of upgrading software is old software which won't read the new
software's output at all.

[snip]
I agree completely with this. In fact, for the past 10 years, the whole
of computing has moved towards ascii-based (character-based) data
interchange standards away from binary data formats. To wit, SGML, HTML
and its variants, XML, as well as scripting languages which remain text
based and uncompiled (binary data). As an example, Perl, Python,
Javascript run on more platforms than I know. A powerful database
environment I worked in years go made every record available as text
(it lives on in Universe and
"multi-value" databases). LaTex and PostScript ... text based.
The only (bad) reason to not use ascii for text based data IMNSHO is
when a vendor wants to maintain control of their proprietary data
format. Good for them but a real PITA for everyone else.
  

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Re: [abcusers] ABC parser output data structure.

[Neil Jennings]

This is OK for those with access to the scripts.
I am working in VB, on Windows, and may not be able to make use of 
software which is not compatible. This was because the program was
ported from QBasic.
There is no way in which I could ever rewrite 100k lines of code now.


Remo D. wrote:

  Maybe useful to better understand my previous post!

Remo
  
  
  



<>

Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files

[Neil Jennings]

I will look into this immediatley. I think it is a hangover from a
previous version, and maybe I can dispense with the limit.
Regards
Neil

Derek Bone wrote:

  Neil

I have just tried the new version of Harmony, which now has the ability
to sort abc files by title, and save them in the new sorted order, and
it works very well, but it has a file size limit of '100'

What does '100' refer to, ie lines, tunes, characters ??

For some time I have been trying to find a way to sort a large tunefile
to use on a handheld, since it really is no use unless it is sorted, since
it is albut impossible to find the tune quickly

The file I have in mind currently has about 15,000 tunes, and will continue
to grow as I merge in new tunes - since the idea is to carry all the tunes
on the handheld for use on 'PalmABC', ahich requires all the abc's to be in
one file

Then if I come across a good new tune while out & about, the chances are
I can look it up and learn it without logging on to net

Is it actually necessary to have a maximum file size in Harmony ??

Any ideas

Regards

Derek

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Neil Jennings
Sent: 30 November 2003 09:39
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


Rewriting the abc file sorted alphabetically has now been implemented, and
will be available in the next release of HARMONY
Neil
----- Original Message -
From: "Neil Jennings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 23 November 2003 09:51
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


  
  
I will try and get it ino the next release, due sometime before Christmas

(v 3.2.5 will also support multi-voice abc files and font directives, to
name just a few improvements)
Neil

- Original Message -
From: "Derek Bone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 16 November 2003 21:50
Subject: RE: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files




  Neil

I'd like that facility to be able to rewrite the file in the new
  

alphameric


  sequence
If you could add this I would be very grateful
I've been after this facility for some time to enable me to make up one
  

big


  alphameric
file for use on my handheld

Thanks

Derek Bone



-----Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Neil Jennings
Sent: 16 October 2003 09:08
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


My program HARMONY can present the list of files within an abc tunebook
  

  
  in
  
  

  either title or number sequence.
If anyone wants the file written out in a new sequence, I could easily
  

  
  add
  
  

  that facility.
Neil Jennings

(Download HARMONY shareware from www.greenhedges.com. Its original
  

function


  was to add chords to a tune but it now does much more)


- Original Message -
From: "Phil Headford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 16 October 2003 03:34
Subject: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


  
  
I've written a little routine which runs under Windows 3.1, 95, 98
It's a bit like Noddy, wobbles a bit, but the bell on the hat still

  

rings.


  
Phil (Flos) Headford
fiddle: Old Swan Band, The English Country Dance Band, Cwm Dancing,

  

  
  Big
  
  

  Bad Contra
  
  




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Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files

[Neil Jennings]

This refers to the number of characters. The limit was imposed because
the program uses fixed size arrays for efficient reading of large
files. I will increase the limit, and also work to replace the arrays
by collections, which do not need bounds or resizing.

How large is your file?

Derek Bone wrote:

  Neil

I have just tried the new version of Harmony, which now has the ability
to sort abc files by title, and save them in the new sorted order, and
it works very well, but it has a file size limit of '100'

What does '100' refer to, ie lines, tunes, characters ??

For some time I have been trying to find a way to sort a large tunefile
to use on a handheld, since it really is no use unless it is sorted, since
it is albut impossible to find the tune quickly

The file I have in mind currently has about 15,000 tunes, and will continue
to grow as I merge in new tunes - since the idea is to carry all the tunes
on the handheld for use on 'PalmABC', ahich requires all the abc's to be in
one file

Then if I come across a good new tune while out & about, the chances are
I can look it up and learn it without logging on to net

Is it actually necessary to have a maximum file size in Harmony ??

Any ideas

Regards

Derek

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Neil Jennings
Sent: 30 November 2003 09:39
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


Rewriting the abc file sorted alphabetically has now been implemented, and
will be available in the next release of HARMONY
Neil
----- Original Message -
From: "Neil Jennings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 23 November 2003 09:51
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


  
  
I will try and get it ino the next release, due sometime before Christmas

(v 3.2.5 will also support multi-voice abc files and font directives, to
name just a few improvements)
Neil

- Original Message -
From: "Derek Bone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 16 November 2003 21:50
Subject: RE: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files




  Neil

I'd like that facility to be able to rewrite the file in the new
  

alphameric


  sequence
If you could add this I would be very grateful
I've been after this facility for some time to enable me to make up one
  

big


  alphameric
file for use on my handheld

Thanks

Derek Bone



-----Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Neil Jennings
Sent: 16 October 2003 09:08
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


My program HARMONY can present the list of files within an abc tunebook
  

  
  in
  
  

  either title or number sequence.
If anyone wants the file written out in a new sequence, I could easily
  

  
  add
  
  

  that facility.
Neil Jennings

(Download HARMONY shareware from www.greenhedges.com. Its original
  

function


  was to add chords to a tune but it now does much more)


- Original Message -
From: "Phil Headford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 16 October 2003 03:34
Subject: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


  
  
I've written a little routine which runs under Windows 3.1, 95, 98
It's a bit like Noddy, wobbles a bit, but the bell on the hat still

  

rings.


  
Phil (Flos) Headford
fiddle: Old Swan Band, The English Country Dance Band, Cwm Dancing,

  

  
  Big
  
  

  Bad Contra
  
  




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Re: [abcusers] abc format to chord chart

[Neil Jennings]

Can you give an example of what tou expect it would look like?
You might be able to do this by using two of my programs
HARMONY to take an abc file with aligned lyrics, and write a Karaoke 
style MIDI
Find MIDI chords to print the chords and lyrics

Richard Walker wrte:
I'm looking for a simple program (DOS, Windows, JAVA, C,
BASIC or FORTRAN - yeah right) that will take an abc format
file and convert it to a chord chart while preserving the
lyrics if they are included in the abc format file.
Does such a program already exist?  I did spot a perl script
written by Anselm Lingnau a few years back that could
certainly be transformed.
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Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files

[Neil Jennings]

I have amended HARMONY to allow files of up to 30Mb, though there may
be some degradation of performance with large files. There is no limit
to the number of tunes in the file, unless it hits some Windows limit
that I don't know about.
This will be in version 3.3.3 when I get the chance to upload it - in
the next few days, I hope.
neil

DEREK BONE wrote:

  
  Neil 
   
  File is approx 7Mb (15,000 tunes), but could get to about 10Mb
eventually I guess
  I don't know how many characters that is, but I suppose each
tune would average about 500 characters
   
  Regards
   
  Derek
  
  Neil Jennings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  This
refers to the number of characters. The limit was imposed because the
program uses fixed size arrays for efficient reading of large files. I
will increase the limit, and also work to replace the arrays by
collections, which do not need bounds or resizing.

How large is your file?

Derek Bone wrote:

  Neil

I have just tried the new version of Harmony, which now has the ability
to sort abc files by title, and save them in the new sorted order, and
it works very well, but it has a file size limit of '100'

What does '100' refer to, ie lines, tunes, characters ??

For some time I have been trying to find a way to sort a large tunefile
to use on a handheld, since it really is no use unless it is sorted, since
it is albut impossible to find the tune quickly

The file I have in mind currently has about 15,000 tunes, and will continue
to grow as I merge in new tunes - since the idea is to carry all the tunes
on the handheld for use on 'PalmABC', ahich requires all the abc's to be in
one file

Then if I come across a good new tune while out & about, the chances are
I can look it up and learn it without logging on to net

Is it actually necessary to have a maximum file size in Harmony ??

Any ideas

Regards

Derek

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Neil Jennings
Sent: 30 November 2003 09:39
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


Rewriting the abc file sorted alphabetically has now been implemented, and
will be available in the next release of HARMONY
Neil
- Original Message -
From: "Neil Jennings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 23 November 2003 09:51
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


  
  
I will try and get it ino the next release, due sometime before Christmas

(v 3.2.5 will also support multi-voice abc files and font directives, to
name just a few improvements)
Neil

- Original Message -
From: "Derek Bone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 16 November 2003 21:50
Subject: RE: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files




  Neil

I'd like that facility to be able to rewrite the file in the new
  

alphameric


  sequence
If you could add this I would be very grateful
I've been after this facility for some time to enable me to make up one
  

big


  alphameric
file for use on my handheld

Thanks

Derek Bone



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Neil Jennings
Sent: 16 October 2003 09:08
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


My program HARMONY can present the list of files within an abc tunebook
  

  
  in
  
  

  either title or number sequence.
If anyone wants the file written out in a new sequence, I could easily
  

  
  add
  
  

  that facility.
Neil Jennings

(Download HARMONY shareware from www.greenhedges.com. Its original
  

function


  was to add chords to a tune but it now does much more)


- Original Message -
From: "Phil Headford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 16 October 2003 03:34
Subject: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


  
  
I've written a little routine which runs under Windows 3.1, 95, 98
It's a bit like Noddy, wobbles a bit, but the bell on the hat still

  

rings.


  
Phil (Flos) Headford
fiddle: Old Swan Band, The English Country Dance Band, Cwm Dancing,

  

  
  Big
  
  

  Bad Contra
  
  

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:

  
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Outgo

Re: [abcusers] On parsers again - Outlook & PHP

[Neil Jennings]

I wasn't for when YOU dropped them so much as when the computer ops 
dropped them (and didn't tell you). Particularly BEFORE the run!

That  was why we put big diagonal lines in felt pen across the tops.

That 72 is especially bizarre.  How many people these days
could even  tell  you where that strange number comes from?
But lots of software does it.>

I used the columns after 72 for sequence numbers so I could
use the sorter to put a deck of cards back in order if
(when) I dropped them.  Up to 72, I used for FORTRAN code.
lol  ... and on a good day I could get two or three runs at
the school computer.
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Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files

[Neil Jennings]

The new version, 3.3.3 , of HARMONY  can now load abc files of up to
30MB. I haven't been able to find a big enough file to try it, so I
don't know how long it would take to load!
Neil

Derek Bone wrote:

  Neil

I have just tried the new version of Harmony, which now has the ability
to sort abc files by title, and save them in the new sorted order, and
it works very well, but it has a file size limit of '100'

What does '100' refer to, ie lines, tunes, characters ??

For some time I have been trying to find a way to sort a large tunefile
to use on a handheld, since it really is no use unless it is sorted, since
it is albut impossible to find the tune quickly

The file I have in mind currently has about 15,000 tunes, and will continue
to grow as I merge in new tunes - since the idea is to carry all the tunes
on the handheld for use on 'PalmABC', ahich requires all the abc's to be in
one file

Then if I come across a good new tune while out & about, the chances are
I can look it up and learn it without logging on to net

Is it actually necessary to have a maximum file size in Harmony ??

Any ideas

Regards

Derek

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Neil Jennings
Sent: 30 November 2003 09:39
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


Rewriting the abc file sorted alphabetically has now been implemented, and
will be available in the next release of HARMONY
Neil
- Original Message -
From: "Neil Jennings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 23 November 2003 09:51
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


  
  
I will try and get it ino the next release, due sometime before Christmas

(v 3.2.5 will also support multi-voice abc files and font directives, to
name just a few improvements)
Neil

- Original Message -
From: "Derek Bone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 16 November 2003 21:50
Subject: RE: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files




  Neil

I'd like that facility to be able to rewrite the file in the new
  

alphameric


  sequence
If you could add this I would be very grateful
I've been after this facility for some time to enable me to make up one
  

big


  alphameric
file for use on my handheld

Thanks

Derek Bone



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Neil Jennings
Sent: 16 October 2003 09:08
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


My program HARMONY can present the list of files within an abc tunebook
  

  
  in
  
  

  either title or number sequence.
If anyone wants the file written out in a new sequence, I could easily
  

  
  add
  
  

  that facility.
Neil Jennings

(Download HARMONY shareware from www.greenhedges.com. Its original
  

function


  was to add chords to a tune but it now does much more)


- Original Message -
From: "Phil Headford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 16 October 2003 03:34
Subject: [abcusers] Sorting ABC files


  
  
I've written a little routine which runs under Windows 3.1, 95, 98
It's a bit like Noddy, wobbles a bit, but the bell on the hat still

  

rings.


  
Phil (Flos) Headford
fiddle: Old Swan Band, The English Country Dance Band, Cwm Dancing,

  

  
  Big
  
  

  Bad Contra
  
  




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Re: [abcusers] spam

[Neil Jennings]

This facility IS provided in the version 2.0 (draft) specification
Neil
John J Foerch wrote:
Hello,
   Brand new abc user here.  I was attracted to abc because it is 
written as ascii text, and so I can keep my music notes on paper and 
in computer files in the same syntax.   I'm more interested in the 
application of hearing my notes as midi than as seeing them on the 
staff.  It seems like one important thing is missing from the abc 
syntax-- some identifier for what standard is complied to by a given 
document.   If an abc document could identify its version compliance 
to the parser, then it would never be obsoleted by changes in the 
standard.  Any thoughts on putting a version identifier into the next 
release of the standard?
thanks,
John J Foerch

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Re: [abcusers] [ABCp] Parts

[Neil Jennings]

Because the P: text appears above the staff, people have mis-used it to add
comments which have nothing to do with parts.

In the tune header, it can have a formula such as (AB)2(AC)3
In the body, it must be just a single letter

HARMONY can play tunes according to the formula, including nested repeats.
Neil


- Original Message -
From: "Remo D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 23 October 2004 11:22
Subject: [abcusers] [ABCp] Parts


> Most of the examples I've examined (thanks again folks!) use a single
> uppercase letter for denoting each part. P:A in a tune means "this is
> the part 'A'" and "P:ABACAB" at the beginning means, if I understood it
> correctly, "play part A, then B, then C ...".
>
> This is what the standards suggest but in one of the Barfly examples,
> parts are denoted with a more complex syntax: "P:Coda" for example.
>
> I'd like to support it but what should be the exact syntax?
>
> My proposal is the following:
>
> "Each part name MUST begin with a upper case letter and may continue
> ONLY with lowercase letters and numbers"
>
> P:AB-> "play part A then B"
> P:OvertureCoda  -> "play part Overture then part Coda"
> P:OVERTURE CODA -> "play part O then V, then E, ..."
> P:intro -> ERROR
>
> Spaces and dots may separate part names.
>
> How Barfly behaves? Any other suggestion?
>
> R:D
>
>
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Re: [abcusers] [ABCp] Decoration J

[Neil Jennings]

I don't think it is defined in the official specification.
- Original Message -
From: "Remo D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 23 October 2004 21:26
Subject: [abcusers] [ABCp] Decoration J


> I still have to fix parts and continuations with the latest suggestion
> but there's something else that I can do very quickly: can anyone tell
> me what the decoration "J" is?
>
> Tnx.
>
> R.D
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Re: [abcusers] [ABCp] Parts

[Neil Jennings]

My program would reject (ignore) any part specification longer than one 
letter.
Your proposal could lead to ambiguous part specifications, if one name 
matched part of another name.

I can see the need for the part specification to have two 'parts', one 
the single letter identifier to be used in formulas, and the other the 
text which appears on the score.
Perhaps we could propose a new syntax, e.g 
P:A ;Intro
P:B ;Riff
P:C ;Coda
(where ; is used here to indicate a new separator character, not 
necessarily a semi-colon)

The single letter is used in the formula, and the text following the 
separator is displayed on the score
Hopefully, leaving a space would make it acceptable to existing programs?

Neil
Remo D. wrote:
Neil Jennings wrote:
Because the P: text appears above the staff, people have mis-used it 
to add
comments which have nothing to do with parts.

In the tune header, it can have a formula such as (AB)2(AC)3
In the body, it must be just a single letter
HARMONY can play tunes according to the formula, including nested 
repeats.
Neil

Does this mean that my proposal is ok for you?  If you have (like the 
standard says):

% Header
P:(AB)2C
...
% Body
P:A

P:B
It would work. But also it would work if you write:
%Header
P:(Intro Riff)2 Coda
...
% Body
P:Intro

P:Riff
...
As a general rule, my parser tries to accomodate as many synonyms as 
it can. A simple example is with decorations: !f! is equal to +f+ 
which is equal to +forte+.

R.D
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Re: [abcusers] [ABCp] Parts

[Neil Jennings]

I still think my suggestion is more general, as it allows the internal
part name (one letter) to be totally independent of the displayed text
(Part description).

Remo's proposal would only allow one word (part name) to start with
each letter. Therefore if there was a part Coda, there could not be any
other part whose name started with C. (Using letters within a word
would get confusing)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Em 25 Oct 2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu: 


  
  
My program would reject (ignore) any part specification longer than one 
letter. 
Your proposal could lead to ambiguous part specifications, if one name 
matched part of another name. 


  
  
Remo's proposal avoids the ambiguity by distinguishing the letter case. Is 
that not sufficient? Remo said (Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:25:13 -0700): 

  
  
"Each part name MUST begin with a upper case letter and may continue 
ONLY with lowercase letters and numbers" 

P:AB-> "play part A then B" 
P:OvertureCoda  -> "play part Overture then part Coda" 
P:OVERTURE CODA -> "play part O then V, then E, ..." 
P:intro -> ERROR 

  
  

Also, for printing, Neil Jennings proposal - a letter for parts 
identification plus an optional string for parts names - should lead to a 
need of to obtain the parts names in the tune body (i.e. after read the 
header P:), for then write (print) the parts sequency at the begining of the 
piece. 

% header 
P:ABABC 
% ... 
% body 
% ... 
P:B ;Riff 
P:C ;Coda 



Regards. 
Hudson 

_
Quer mais velocidade?
Só com o acesso Aditivado iG, a velocidade que você quer na hora que você precisa.
Clique aqui: http://www.acessoaditivado.ig.com.br

  

Re: [abcusers] abc2xml

[Neil Jennings]

I am currently working on an XML export capability for my program
HARMONY, but no promises when it will be ready!

Richard Robinson wrote:

  On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 09:33:25PM +0200, Kristian Nørgaard wrote:
  
  
Does anyone know if abc2xml is a work in progress?

I myself miss support for lyrics, and according to
http://home.austin.rr.com/johner/abc2xml/abc2xml.htm#features
there are a lot of other limitations.

  
  
I don't know for sure, but don't have the impression it's being actively
maintained. It's buggy, too. Strikes me as one of those little projects
that would be more sensible under an open-source license ...

  

Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software

[Neil Jennings]

Have you looked at my program HARMONY?
It can do a lot of what you want, including points 1,2,3,5,6,8,and 9, 
and can write the result in abc format
I am currently updating the notation entry by adding drag and drop from 
toolbars - some of this is already in place.

Don Parrish-Bell wrote:
This is probably off-topic, but I think the people on this list would 
be most qualified to help me!

I have given up on Sibelius G7 as being tolerable as a notation entry 
tool!   It fights everything you try to do!

I was wondering if anyone on the list has a recommendation for a 
program that allows entering notation graphically for classical guitar 
compositions?   Here's a list of basic features I'm looking for:

1. Allows entering multiple "voices" without messing with what you 
enter (unless you ask it to!)
2. Allows playing back your composition at any point without altering 
what you have entered.
3. Allows easy Microsoft Windows type editing features (cut, paste, 
copy, etc.) without messing up what you have already entered or 
without automatically inserting or deleting measures.
4. It would be nice to be able to convert to and from tabulature.
5. Allows entering key and time signatures wherever you need them 
without messing up what you have already entered.
6. Allows entering lyrics, fingering, chord symbols, etc. without 
messing up what you have already entered.
7. Allows printing out postscript (or other form that an HP laser 
printer will accept).
8. Allows MIDI input and output.
9. Some file conversion utilities (other formats to its native one, 
and vice versa).

You'd think any of the programs out there would allow you to do these 
things.  Am I just asking too much?  I just want a tool that is just 
that ... a tool, not a monster with a mind of its own that you spend 
99% of your time fighting with to do a simple task!

I do skim through the groups e-mails from time to time, and I do 
appreciate all everyone is doing on ABC format.  But ABC format 
doesn't help with my music reading skills (sorry if I am missing 
someone's graphical notation efforts).  Does anyone have some 
recommendations for me?

Or maybe someone can tell me how I go about buying Guitar Studio 
(whose author wants to be paid in Euros) from California?

I appreciate any help I can get!
Thank you,
Don Parrish-Bell
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[abcusers] New version of HARMONY, with improved graphical editing

[Neil Jennings]

News Flash
A new version of HARMONYis now available a my web site www.greenhedges.com
This features drag and drop of chord names from the toolbar onto notes, 
and also drag and drop of accidentals. Watch out for further 
improvements in this area, such as floating toolboxes!
Neil

Neil Jennings wrote:
Have you looked at my program HARMONY?
It can do a lot of what you want, including points 1,2,3,5,6,8,and 9, 
and can write the result in abc format
I am currently updating the notation entry by adding drag and drop 
from toolbars - some of this is already in place.

Don Parrish-Bell wrote:
This is probably off-topic, but I think the people on this list would 
be most qualified to help me!

I have given up on Sibelius G7 as being tolerable as a notation entry 
tool!   It fights everything you try to do!

I was wondering if anyone on the list has a recommendation for a 
program that allows entering notation graphically for classical 
guitar compositions?   Here's a list of basic features I'm looking for:

1. Allows entering multiple "voices" without messing with what you 
enter (unless you ask it to!)
2. Allows playing back your composition at any point without altering 
what you have entered.
3. Allows easy Microsoft Windows type editing features (cut, paste, 
copy, etc.) without messing up what you have already entered or 
without automatically inserting or deleting measures.
4. It would be nice to be able to convert to and from tabulature.
5. Allows entering key and time signatures wherever you need them 
without messing up what you have already entered.
6. Allows entering lyrics, fingering, chord symbols, etc. without 
messing up what you have already entered.
7. Allows printing out postscript (or other form that an HP laser 
printer will accept).
8. Allows MIDI input and output.
9. Some file conversion utilities (other formats to its native one, 
and vice versa).

You'd think any of the programs out there would allow you to do these 
things.  Am I just asking too much?  I just want a tool that is just 
that ... a tool, not a monster with a mind of its own that you spend 
99% of your time fighting with to do a simple task!

I do skim through the groups e-mails from time to time, and I do 
appreciate all everyone is doing on ABC format.  But ABC format 
doesn't help with my music reading skills (sorry if I am missing 
someone's graphical notation efforts).  Does anyone have some 
recommendations for me?

Or maybe someone can tell me how I go about buying Guitar Studio 
(whose author wants to be paid in Euros) from California?

I appreciate any help I can get!
Thank you,
Don Parrish-Bell
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Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software

[Neil Jennings]

Have you tried my program HARMONY?
If so, what does it not do, that you need?
Neil Jennings
www.greenhedges.com
Don Parrish-Bell wrote:
I have played a bit with Harmony Assistant and it does indeed look 
promising ...
It's author wants $70.00 for it, which is probably not too bad, but I 
hate to jump into another program without even knowing how its printed 
output will look.  The eval. version is very wounded  can't save, 
can't print.  I can understand they don't want to give it all away, 
but that is how I got stuck with G7.  Sibelius' demo looks good, but 
only after buying and working with it a bit have I found out how much 
I hate it!

Today's "feature", for example 
I have a simple piece of music that's in 4/4.  The first measure has a 
dotted quarter note, then an eight note, another dotted quarter and an 
eighth note.  G7 lets me place the dotted quarter, fights, but 
ultimately allows entering the 1st eight note.  It allows me to place 
the next dotted quarter, but then deletes the dot when I enter the 
last eighth note.  Now, I'm assuming that my arithmetic (and that of 
the original author of the 16th century piece) is correct ... that a 
dotted quarter = 3 eighth notes, 2 of those make up 6 possible eighth 
note spots and 2 eighth notes finish it off for a complete measure 
without any rests.

G7 also has this weird ghost-note thing that once it puts those in you 
can't delete them.  (I'm really looking forward to a little discussion 
with those people at NAMM this year!).

Don
At 03:32 AM 11/17/2004, you wrote:
From: "Phil Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The OP wanted graphical input.  Not many abc programs will do that -
> offhand I can only think of MUSE, which is very out of date and
> whose author is now sadly deceased.
Harmony Assistant would be worth a try as a program to match his
requirements.
http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/harmony.htm
Jon
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Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software

[Neil Jennings]

Hi,
Yes, there are a few things you can do.
a) Specify 0 bars on the New FIle form, then it doesn't fill with rests. 
You can then drag and drop new notes which are added at the end of the 
score by default
b) Edit the key using the mouse menu. Maybe I can add this to the new 
file form
c) Agreed, you can't move notes. That is REAL heavyweight programming.
d) To set multiple staffs, you have to add voices, and then use Open 
Score mode. This is necessary because of the need to keep sounds in sync 
with score
e) to place a note where you want it, drag from the toobar onto an 
existing note. It will be placed after it.
f) You can play back at any time - try it
g) Copy, cut and paste DO work if notes are selected first
h) You can adjust spacing, by inserting special commands, but these have 
to be added in text edit mode.

Hope this helps, and I can always make improvements if possible
Neil
Don Parrish-Bell wrote:
Got it installed and gave it a quick go.  Here's what I've found so far:
1. Can't seem to specify the key before you start.
2. Transpose seems to cause an error unless there are some notes 
placed.  Once a few notes were placed, it seemed to ignore the 
transpose operation.
3. Note entry is clumsy ... score starts with all rests then you have 
to right-click on a rest and change it to a note.
4. Doesn't seem like you can move notes with the mouse ... had to 
change pitch with the right-click method.

Granted this is only with a 10 minute session, so I'm probably not up 
to speed on some of the more salient features.

Here's what I would hope to have (and working properly without an 
argument!):
1. You can pre-set the key signature, time signature and tempo.
2. You can easily setup multiple staffs
3. You can click on a note value from a menu or toolbar and place it 
right where you want it.
4. You can double-click that note and change its pitch or duration by 
either keystrokes or by selecting a new duration (pitch changed by 
moving the note with the mouse.
5. You can enter notes next to, before on top of (i. e. chords) 
without any argument or "user-friendly" intervention.
6. You can save, cut & paste, etc. ... all the usual editing features.
7. You can playback at any time without disturbing what you have.
8. The program is allowed to adjust note spacing for best appearance, 
but gives you the option of altering that to suit your own tastes.

Do I ask too much?   The $20.00 MusicTime program that I got several 
years back seemed to do all of this ... not without a few quirks here 
and there though.  My short "chat" with Laurie was about MusicTime.  
He told me that he started with that MusicTime program when developing 
his MUSE program.

Don
At 11:03 AM 11/30/2004, you wrote:
Have you tried my program HARMONY?
If so, what does it not do, that you need?
Neil Jennings
www.greenhedges.com

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