Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On Wednesday 22 May 2013 00:10:40 Michael Bohlender wrote:
> I guess we could really use a "formal" list for testing so I started one
> with the things that Thomas usually tests:
> 
> community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Testing

Thanks!
I've added some test cases.

> 
> I'm trying this as a live disk on my lenovo s10-3t and notice that the
> 
> > about screen says it's version 3 still, instead of version 4.
> 
> good catch. I submitted a patch.

Great!
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Paul S]

On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:

> I'd just like to initiate a shift in mindsets: From "PA on Mer does not
> work correctly on my device!", which we hear from pretty much everyone who
> tries to use it on a device where nobody used it before, to "I see that a
> lot of work still has to be put into making it work on this device. How do
> we get that work started?"
>
> Of course the problem is: How do users distinguish bugs related to
> hardware integration from actual PA- or Mer-Bugs? This is a problem I have
> no solution for yet. One indicator might be that it's a fairly obvious and
> critical bug which has not yet been reported on bugs.kde.org. In this
> case, it's unlikely that it happens on the devices we use as well without
> having been reported yet.
>

I think there's big potential for the x86 users like my lenovo s10-3t to
use pa4. However, there's a an xorg bug holding back x86 users since
January 2012. But, the bug is close to being fixed.
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56578 for you info. Perhaps it
will be done for the fall distro updates.

Right now the best x86 touchscreen experience is androidx86, but it has the
same problems that mer does, for example, you can't even print and the eth0
does not work on android.

Now that I understand mer better, let me ask the question, would it be
possible for the xorg server used on mer to be ported to another distro?
For example, if kubuntu-active ran like mer, I think it would attract a
huge touchscreen user base.
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Wolfgang Romey]

Am Montag, 20. Mai 2013, 14:16:55 schrieb Marco Martin:

> 
> also, new repositories are enabled in the image:
> * mer-updates: it will contain bugfix updates for the base system if neede
> (hopefully none)
> * kde:apps : it will contain 3rd party apps and packages based on kde.
> being enabled on pa4 new packages can land there post release and will be
> easy installable on pa4 systems
> 
Do I have to enable the new repros or have to change repros, if i use PA4 on 
my weTab and have updated it nearly every day and want to test the release-
candidate. If yes, were do i find them?

Wolfgang
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Hillel Lubman]

On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:

> - Wait for the Vivaldi. If you read Aaron's blog, you know how much time
> was already put into getting Plasma Active on Mer to work on that device
> (which is not Mer's fault!) and afaik it's still not finished, but when
> it's out, you'll know it will work well.
>

In one of the videos about Vivaldi Aaron mentioned that it'll be using
libhybris, which was a bit of a surprise, since Vivaldi was expected to be
crafted specifically for PA and to use the best available options. Does it
mean that it won't have native X11/Wayland drivers? Were there problems
with obtaining them? It's supposed to be Mali-400 as far as I know.

Thanks,

Hillel.
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 22.05.2013 18:26, Paul S wrote:

On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Thomas Pfeiffer mailto:colo...@autistici.org>> wrote:

It seems like you are confusing MeeGo and Mer. Mer is a community
continuation of MeeGo. Our images do not use MeeGo, it's just Mer,
with Plasma Active on top and the Nemo Mobile integration parts
(e.g. the kernel) below.


Yes I was, thanks for correcting my ignorance.


No problem, just wanted to make clear we're talking about the same things.


Complaining is the one thing that won't help you.

I apologize if it sounds like just complaining. I was trying to provide
useful feedback of an early image. Perhaps my words aren't as good as
they should be. I hope no hard feelings.


No hard feelings on my side, I didn't make Mer ;)
I'd just like to initiate a shift in mindsets: From "PA on Mer does not 
work correctly on my device!", which we hear from pretty much everyone 
who tries to use it on a device where nobody used it before, to "I see 
that a lot of work still has to be put into making it work on this 
device. How do we get that work started?"


Of course the problem is: How do users distinguish bugs related to 
hardware integration from actual PA- or Mer-Bugs? This is a problem I 
have no solution for yet. One indicator might be that it's a fairly 
obvious and critical bug which has not yet been reported on 
bugs.kde.org. In this case, it's unlikely that it happens on the devices 
we use as well without having been reported yet.


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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Paul S]

On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:

> It seems like you are confusing MeeGo and Mer. Mer is a community
> continuation of MeeGo. Our images do not use MeeGo, it's just Mer, with
> Plasma Active on top and the Nemo Mobile integration parts (e.g. the
> kernel) below.
>

Yes I was, thanks for correcting my ignorance.

Complaining is the one thing that won't help you.

I apologize if it sounds like just complaining. I was trying to provide
useful feedback of an early image. Perhaps my words aren't as good as they
should be. I hope no hard feelings.
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 21.05.2013 16:48, Marco Martin wrote:

On Monday 20 May 2013 16:13:47 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:

hopefully there will be soon images based on this kickstart


I'd suggest to start a collaborative intense testing phase as soon as the
images are available. Everyone with a device should test hell out of it.
A group of students has been trying out my tablet recently (they will be
conducting usability tests with it) and still found quite a few problems,
and I did not have the chance to systematically test recently.




and here's the link

https://share.basyskom.com/plasma-active/deployment/wetab-exopc/tablet/mer/testing/basyskom-plasma-active-four-wetab-exopc-tablet-mer-release-rc.iso


I'll start testing when I get my WeTab back on Friday. The students have 
already found quite a few problems while getting to know it, some of 
them quite ugly. I'll try to reproduce them with the stable image and 
report them if I can.


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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 22.05.2013 00:59, Paul S wrote:

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Michael Bohlender
mailto:michael.bohlen...@kdemail.net>>
wrote:


I'm trying this as a live disk on my lenovo s10-3t and notice
that the about screen says it's version 3 still, instead of
version 4.


I didn't realize how crippled meego is for something like my netbook.
Even though I loaded my wireless module bcrmsmac and got no errors in
dmesg, I can't find a way to create the wlan0 device. So no wifi here.
Also, I notice it takes 8 to 9 minutes to get it to wake up from sleep.
I've done this 3 times, so it's not a fluke .. Also, I tried installing
firfox from mozilla.org , and can't get it to run.
Why would anyone with X86 hardware want to run this crippled meego? I
think you should stop producing it.

On the other hand, I tried kububu-active sausy iso from yesterday and it
won't give me a usable screen. It boots to a screen that's divided into
3 or 6 of the same image in each third or 6th of the screen.

It's too bad you can't use the mer from your meego distro with kubuntu.

The mer part seems pretty useful and stable. I didn't have any crashes
yet and the touchscreen is working fine. These are the parts that never
work on kubuntu.


It seems like you are confusing MeeGo and Mer. Mer is a community 
continuation of MeeGo. Our images do not use MeeGo, it's just Mer, with 
Plasma Active on top and the Nemo Mobile integration parts (e.g. the 
kernel) below.


Plasma Active on Mer works pretty well on WeTab/ExpPC devices now, I'd 
say way better than on Kubuntu or openSUSE, because it's optimized for 
mobile devices.


The problem is: Things hardly ever work well out of the box on tablets. 
There always has to be someone who irons out the quirks of each device 
until a system runs smoothly on it. This is a whole lot of work to do. 
For WeTab/ExoPC, that someone has been Maurice de la Ferte and is now 
Marco Martin. For Nexus 7, that someone is Ruediger Gad.
Maurice and Marco have already spent a lot of time on getting Mer to run 
well on WeTab/ExoPC, that's why it works pretty well now. Ruediger 
started working on the port to Nexus 7 much later, that's why there are 
still more problems there.


For the  lenovo s10-3t, nobody did that work yet, so it's to be expected 
that many things don't work yet. In fact, I'm very surprised that it 
boots into PA at all!

Welcome to the mobile world! Sadly, this is how things roll here.
Even communities or companies building an operating system for one 
specific device struggle in the beginning (remember OpenMoko? They 
worked on that for years and it still had lots of problems!).
And I am very certain that it costs even the engineers at Samsung quite 
a few grey hairs until they get Android to run smoothly on a completely 
new device.


So don't blame the Mer community. You have a few options to solve your 
problem:
- Invest the time (probably quite a few days or maybe even weeks) 
necessary to get Mer (or Kubuntu Active or whatever distro that offers 
PA packagaes) to work well with your device

- Get someone else to do it (you'll need quite a good incentive for that)
- Wait for the Vivaldi. If you read Aaron's blog, you know how much time 
was already put into getting Plasma Active on Mer to work on that device 
(which is not Mer's fault!) and afaik it's still not finished, but when 
it's out, you'll know it will work well.

- Get a WeTab/ExoPC
- Wait until the Nexus 7 images work well (there are quite a few PA 
users with Nexus 7 devices already, so chances are more people will step 
up to help Ruediger in the near future) and then get one of those


Complaining is the one thing that won't help you.

Cheers,
Thomas
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Paul S]

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Michael Bohlender <
michael.bohlen...@kdemail.net> wrote:

>
> I'm trying this as a live disk on my lenovo s10-3t and notice that the
>> about screen says it's version 3 still, instead of version 4.
>>
>
I didn't realize how crippled meego is for something like my netbook. Even
though I loaded my wireless module bcrmsmac and got no errors in dmesg, I
can't find a way to create the wlan0 device. So no wifi here. Also, I
notice it takes 8 to 9 minutes to get it to wake up from sleep. I've done
this 3 times, so it's not a fluke .. Also, I tried installing firfox from
mozilla.org, and can't get it to run. Why would anyone with X86 hardware
want to run this crippled meego? I think you should stop producing it.

On the other hand, I tried kububu-active sausy iso from yesterday and it
won't give me a usable screen. It boots to a screen that's divided into 3
or 6 of the same image in each third or 6th of the screen.

It's too bad you can't use the mer from your meego distro with kubuntu.

The mer part seems pretty useful and stable. I didn't have any crashes yet
and the touchscreen is working fine. These are the parts that never work on
kubuntu.
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Michael Bohlender]

I guess we could really use a "formal" list for testing so I started one
with the things that Thomas usually tests:

community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Testing


I'm trying this as a live disk on my lenovo s10-3t and notice that the
> about screen says it's version 3 still, instead of version 4.
>
>
good catch. I submitted a patch.
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Paul S]

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Marco Martin  wrote:

>
>
> https://share.basyskom.com/plasma-active/deployment/wetab-exopc/tablet/mer/testing/basyskom-plasma-active-four-wetab-exopc-tablet-mer-release-rc.iso
>

I'm trying this as a live disk on my lenovo s10-3t and notice that the
about screen says it's version 3 still, instead of version 4.

Also, I can connect using the wired eth0 connection, but my wireless is
greyed out. It's a broadcom brcmsmac open source module on other linux.

Boot time was about 1 min 45 sec from boot screen to usable.

I'll try some more stuff with it.
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Marco Martin]

On Monday 20 May 2013 16:13:47 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > hopefully there will be soon images based on this kickstart
> 
> I'd suggest to start a collaborative intense testing phase as soon as the
> images are available. Everyone with a device should test hell out of it.
> A group of students has been trying out my tablet recently (they will be
> conducting usability tests with it) and still found quite a few problems,
> and I did not have the chance to systematically test recently.
> 


and here's the link

https://share.basyskom.com/plasma-active/deployment/wetab-exopc/tablet/mer/testing/basyskom-plasma-active-four-wetab-exopc-tablet-mer-release-rc.iso
-- 
Marco Martin
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Ruediger Gad]

Hi,

last night, I gave it a quick try to create images for Nexus7.
Unfortunately, both versions, devel and testing didn't run well out of
the box.
I cannot promise anything as I am very busy with other stuff these days
but I'll try to look into this again tonight.
At least for the testing version the UI came up. Unfortunately, it froze
pretty soon afterwards.

I'll keep you updated.



Cheers,

Ruediger




On 05/21/2013 11:11 AM, Daniel Kreuter wrote:
> I would linke Tod hell Festung, if so eine (maybe Ruediger?) would
> provide an image for the nexus 7 device.
> 
> So long
> 
> Am 20.05.2013 21:46 schrieb "Marco Martin"  >:
>>
>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Hillel Lubman  > wrote:
>>>
>>> May be Plasma Active can set up a donations page so anyone interested
> would help key developers to be equipped with important devices (like
> key x86 and ARM ones). This can even out the effort since right now, ARM
> feels like a lower priority and bugs there are discovered slower.
>>
>>
>> The problem is not really that, I don't think more devices to current
> developers could help much.
>> To scale in a manageable fashion, more devices is completely secondary
> to have more people involved and willing to maintain adaptations.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Maco Martin
>>
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> 
> 
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Daniel Kreuter]

I would linke Tod hell Festung, if so eine (maybe Ruediger?) would provide
an image for the nexus 7 device.

So long

Am 20.05.2013 21:46 schrieb "Marco Martin" :
>
> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Hillel Lubman 
wrote:
>>
>> May be Plasma Active can set up a donations page so anyone interested
would help key developers to be equipped with important devices (like key
x86 and ARM ones). This can even out the effort since right now, ARM feels
like a lower priority and bugs there are discovered slower.
>
>
> The problem is not really that, I don't think more devices to current
developers could help much.
> To scale in a manageable fashion, more devices is completely secondary to
have more people involved and willing to maintain adaptations.
>
> Cheers,
> Maco Martin
>
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Marco Martin]

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Hillel Lubman  wrote:

> May be Plasma Active can set up a donations page so anyone interested
> would help key developers to be equipped with important devices (like key
> x86 and ARM ones). This can even out the effort since right now, ARM feels
> like a lower priority and bugs there are discovered slower.
>

The problem is not really that, I don't think more devices to current
developers could help much.
To scale in a manageable fashion, more devices is completely secondary to
have more people involved and willing to maintain adaptations.

Cheers,
Maco Martin
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Hillel Lubman]

May be Plasma Active can set up a donations page so anyone interested would
help key developers to be equipped with important devices (like key x86 and
ARM ones). This can even out the effort since right now, ARM feels like a
lower priority and bugs there are discovered slower.

Regards,

Hillel.


On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:

> On Monday 20 May 2013 14:31:48 Hillel Lubman wrote:
> The problem is that Marco, who currently does most of the integration
> work, does not have a Nexus 7 so he cannot test on his device.
> The champion of PA on Nexus 7 is Ruediger Gad, so maybe he has time to
> look into the problems there.
>
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On Monday 20 May 2013 14:31:48 Hillel Lubman wrote:
> I can do it on Nexus 7 (which has current devel image though it doesn't
> load the UI anymore after the most recent update %). 

Great! Any help is greatly appreciated!
The problem is that Marco, who currently does most of the integration work, 
does not have a Nexus 7 so he cannot test on his device.
The champion of PA on Nexus 7 is Ruediger Gad, so maybe he has time to look 
into the problems there.

> Is there any list of formal tests, or it's do whatever comes to mind?

We do not have a list of formal tests (yet), so for now it's "do whatever 
comes to mind". Some things I usually check because they often break are
- Creating / editing / deleting Activities
- Adding files to Activities (via Add Items and via SLC) and removing them 
again
- Starting several applications and switching between them
- Files:
- Tagging files
- Copying files from/to an external storage device
- Deleting files
- Using the metadata filters (image size or Artist/Album for music)
- Browsing the Web
- Sending the device to sleep and waking it up again
- Browsing though images
- Changing screen settings
- Downloading Add Ons

Others surely have more things to add to this list, but I hope it already 
helps.

Cheers,
Thomas
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Hillel Lubman]

I can do it on Nexus 7 (which has current devel image though it doesn't
load the UI anymore after the most recent update %). Is there any list of
formal tests, or it's do whatever comes to mind?

Thanks,

Hillel.


On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:

>
>  Everyone with a device should test hell out of it.
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Marco Martin]

On Monday 20 May 2013 19:26:22 Michael Bohlender wrote:
> I tried to build one for the nexus 7 but I didn't get it to work. The
> tegra3/common and tegra3/nexus7 had no packages so I had to change to the
> "devel" repos.
> 
> The last thing I get from systemd is "[OK] Reached target Graphical
> Interface." followed by  "dhd_rx_frame: net device not registered " but
> it never starts a graphical interface.
> 
> I don't have an adapter to attach a keyboard and investigate and I lack too
> much knowledge in this field so I will have to wait for someone else to
> build an Image (unless there is an obvious fix for this).

yeah, unfortunately i can test only on i586 at the moment.

would be good having a bit of integration work done on those branches on 
different device adaptations :)

-- 
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Michael Bohlender]

> > we have a new stable option for images creation.
> >
> > in the plasma-active-kickstart git repo, there is a new yaml for image
> > creation.
> >
> > so, if you do
> >
> > mer-kickstarter -e . -c releases/plasma-active-4.yaml -o
> > plasma-active-latest- ks/
> >
> > it will generate kickstarts from kde:stable:* and "fixed" releases for
> nemo
> > and mer. this will be the basis of pa4.
> >
> > also, new repositories are enabled in the image:
> > * mer-updates: it will contain bugfix updates for the base system if
> neede
> > (hopefully none)
> > * kde:apps : it will contain 3rd party apps and packages based on kde.
> being
> > enabled on pa4 new packages can land there post release and will be easy
> > installable on pa4 systems
> >
> > hopefully there will be soon images based on this kickstart
>

I tried to build one for the nexus 7 but I didn't get it to work. The
tegra3/common and tegra3/nexus7 had no packages so I had to change to the
"devel" repos.

The last thing I get from systemd is "[OK] Reached target Graphical
Interface." followed by  "dhd_rx_frame: net device not registered " but
it never starts a graphical interface.

I don't have an adapter to attach a keyboard and investigate and I lack too
much knowledge in this field so I will have to wait for someone else to
build an Image (unless there is an obvious fix for this).


> I'd suggest to start a collaborative intense testing phase as soon as the
> images are available. Everyone with a device should test hell out of it.
>

+ 1   count me in
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Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On Monday 20 May 2013 14:16:55 Marco Martin wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> we have a new stable option for images creation.
> 
> in the plasma-active-kickstart git repo, there is a new yaml for image
> creation.
> 
> so, if you do
> 
> mer-kickstarter -e . -c releases/plasma-active-4.yaml -o
> plasma-active-latest- ks/
> 
> it will generate kickstarts from kde:stable:* and "fixed" releases for nemo
> and mer. this will be the basis of pa4.
> 
> also, new repositories are enabled in the image:
> * mer-updates: it will contain bugfix updates for the base system if neede
> (hopefully none)
> * kde:apps : it will contain 3rd party apps and packages based on kde. being
> enabled on pa4 new packages can land there post release and will be easy
> installable on pa4 systems
> 
> hopefully there will be soon images based on this kickstart

I'd suggest to start a collaborative intense testing phase as soon as the 
images are available. Everyone with a device should test hell out of it.
A group of students has been trying out my tablet recently (they will be 
conducting usability tests with it) and still found quite a few problems, and 
I did not have the chance to systematically test recently.

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repos and kickstarts for pa4

[Marco Martin]

Hi all,

we have a new stable option for images creation.

in the plasma-active-kickstart git repo, there is a new yaml for image 
creation.

so, if you do

mer-kickstarter -e . -c releases/plasma-active-4.yaml -o plasma-active-latest-
ks/

it will generate kickstarts from kde:stable:* and "fixed" releases for nemo 
and mer. this will be the basis of pa4.

also, new repositories are enabled in the image:
* mer-updates: it will contain bugfix updates for the base system if neede 
(hopefully none)
* kde:apps : it will contain 3rd party apps and packages based on kde. being 
enabled on pa4 new packages can land there post release and will be easy 
installable on pa4 systems

hopefully there will be soon images based on this kickstart

Cheers,
Marco Martin
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