Re: [arr] There is nothing average about Blue's music!
On 9/12/2009 4:15 AM India Time, _Arijit Debnath_ wrote: Listeners seem to be average. sometimes...�lack of�knowledge of music are evident in some posts... � Rahman is musicians' composer... �not an average listener's composer. � I think who doesn't like Mozart's or Rahman's composition. they should not open their mouth...it's their shame... � Arijit ha ha ha. I don't know how to convey that I am NOT attacking you back for you telling me that I have no music knowledge and that I should keep my mouth shut, and that it is my shame. I concede that I have no formal education in the field of music, and that is, if not shame, is the biggest disappoint for me. Though I have been listening to music for about half a century, but of course, eating omelette for half a century does not make us capable of laying eggs. I have praised our man endlessly for the songs I have liked - and those are dozens. I didn't have music knowledge even then when I praise. He has been my only fav living personality (not just in the field of music, but among all living beings in all areas) for 18 years. I have met him. And yeah, I have attacked his songs that I didn't like - there are just very few like that. So saying that some individual song lacks in one individual aspect should not distort your sense of proportion. We are the biggest authentic group of fans of our man. I think we should permit people to express their view even if someone just says bad things occasionally. By telling that Rahman is musicians' composer... �not an average listener's composer. we are alienating our man from billions of humans who are average listeners. I think that is more of a disservice done to our man than criticizing him citing real examples. By telling people not to open their mouth, you have thrown the constitution of your country to a gutter, whether you are an Indian or not, I think the constitution of almost every country must be empowering individuals with freedom of speech, and your statement snatches that freedom from people. I did not violate any law or caused any riots by saying thusly. It boils down to the difference between a fan and a fanatic. -- Rawat
Re: [arr] There is nothing average about Blue's music!
On 9/12/2009 8:42 AM India Time, _Vinayak_ wrote: Its not fair to compare the lyrics of the dubbed works of ARR with his current output. I think his recent Hindi works have far superior lyrics than heard in other works. Blue is average on the lyrics with some gems in between. Saagar ke dil me jitne khazaane Dil ke saagar me utne fasaane Yua. This is not the only one. There are indeed many gems like this. That is what I said. These are tiny diamonds the some total of which does not make a Kohenoor. These are sort of diamond dust that is at best usable in grinding wheel, an that is an indication of the value/ worth. Of course, every one must agree that poor or average or slightly above average lyrics are not ARR's fault, and is the lyrics writers' weakness, just the way that great lyrics are not ARR plus point but the plus points of a Gulzar or a Rahat Indori or an occasional Javed Akhtar. Still, ARR has given 100+ albums now, several hundreds of songs - probably reaching a thousand soon, it has been 18 years, and still ARR has not make a name for him in the department of lyrics. Everything said, it is the MD whose baby a song is. It is the MD who impresses upon the lyrics writer what type (level) of lyrics he expects and approves and modifies or rejects lyrics. Seems that lyrics writer have understood that ARR doesn't care for lyrics so he can be passed on with average lyrics also, except for a few who refuse to compromise with the quality of their lyrics even for an ARR. While everybody here always seems to go gaga about greatness and perfection of ARR, which in the most part is indeed true and deserved and earned by him. Still, I feel that there are some areas in which ARR lacks and he should put additional efforts to improve them drastically are: 1. quality of lyrics of his songs 2. pronunciation of words in his songs (don't allow music to drown words, don't distort words to fit in the music) Warm Regards ~~~ Vinayak I feel that by highlighting areas of improvements, I am not harming or hurting our man. Thanks. -- Rawat
[arr] There is nothing average about Blue's music!
I am hearing the words mediocre and average being thrown around in some places to describe Blue's music in some reviews. Guys, how can such brilliant work be average? The depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is anything BUT average or below. Even saying above average is a huge understatement. Keep in mind, I'm not downing anyone who doesn't like the music due to personal taste...have no problem with that. But to call the music average when it is clearly musically superior in compositional terms is just false. I can't believe how much I'm posting about Blue's music. You can tell I'm very excited and very happy.almost bubbling with joy and can't contain myself from posting here to express it! Thanks Gopal for creating a group that allows me to post my thoughts and feelings so freely!!
Re: [arr] There is nothing average about Blue's music!
On 9/11/2009 6:56 PM India Time, _ichord_ wrote: I am hearing the words mediocre and average being thrown around in some places to describe Blue's music in some reviews. Guys, how can such brilliant work be average? It is a person's personal judgment whether a work is brilliant. Similarly, it is some other person's personal judgment whether a work is not brilliant, and is mediocre, below average. The depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is anything BUT average or below. Even saying above average is a huge understatement. You started with lyrics are said to be bad, then you take a switch to music is good to say that thus, lyrics also have to be good. see for yourself. It is not really logical line of thinking. depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is one aspect of the song, and that may be brilliant. Similarly, words/ lyrics are another a different aspect of the song and they may be mediocre/ below average while other aspects of songs are brilliant. One part being great doesn't make an entire song great. One part being wanting doesn't make overall song lacking. For example, in recent times, chak de india's song kuch kariye had such lovely, heart touching, earthly lyrics by an unknown Jaideep Sahni that would do even a Gulzar or Ghalib or Meer proud, but the music, was just ok, went too fast to let people absorb the lyrics, and the khichdi of loud in comparison chak de India refrain, and female chorus, backgroun just killed/ murdered/spoiled the beauty of the mukhda/ stanza portion of lyrics. This song should be taught in class room as the perfect case how to kill great lyrics. Similarly, Taare Zameen Par, had excellent hearth touching lyrics in dekho inhein hain os ki boondein, tune, music also good, still the song went a tad slow, too soft, introvert, subdued that it didn't get the prominence it could have deserved. Maa of the same movie were too emotional in lyrics, music and singing that it deserve to not get popular, irrespective of award it fetched for the singer. Again, all these are my personal judgment. ARR's Zindagi of Yuvraj has everything great, music, lyrics, whatever else. However, Ghajini's Kaise mujhe though we all like that a lot, now I think that that song is lacking something that I can't pinpoint really. may be, it went a tad too loud, sort of a declaration for a emotional song that should have been introspective - a la zindagi. But, other songs of ghajini -- and I am not speaking of latto and bachchoo which were intentionally kept cheap, had poor lyrics. The most popular guzarish had lyrics that a 10th standard child poet might write, just putting rhyming words matching scale - no thought, no concept, no inner beauty, no content - that was wordsmithing, words being fitted to give the shape of a song like a menial worker putting physical things to fit in a shape. Even then it got popular. Coming to lyrics of ballooo, blooo, ullooo, falloo, there are good urdu words put at places, that had not earlier been used much in ARR songs, so they sound good. But that is it and that is all. There is not much depth vibrating through entire song. These are just individual separate pieces that are good lyrics, but none of the entire song is a single whole entity having a life of its own, no single thought or line of thought peeking from the entire songs. It is a general feeling that ARR is quite confident (though I think too proud would have explained it better but that would hurt several of you) about his musical instincts and creativity, and I concede that rightly so, but that makes him ignore lyrics intentionally. Seems as if he considers lyrics are necessary evil and he is compromising the greatness of his music by putting lyrics in it. Sometimes he gets good poets so good lyrics come up but not as a rule of ARR songs, just because of the individual presence of a good lyrics writer who is not ready to compromise. Seems ARR's standard of lyrics is as low as jurrasic park mein sundar se jode rap music gaaye jam ke or patti rap or latka jhatka or telephone dhun mein hansne wali sort of cheapness presented in the name of lyrics. Again, all these are my personal judgment. Blue lyrics are better than Ghajini's, but still writer is appeaing as novice who might have good potential in future, but is a kid learning and experimenting at present. Again, all these are my personal judgment. Coming to music, I have been hearing Blue now for most of some 48 hours, and my conclusion is this. Blue music sounds so rich and complex as none of ARR's earlier album had been in toto till now. But, it lacks content, it is showbiz, it is decorative, it is soulless, it is all glitter and nothing else. I am listening to it and liking the beats etc., but it is not giving me internal intellectual emotional satisfaction that several of ARR's earlier words had given me. I don't know how
Re: [arr] There is nothing average about Blue's music!
My personal judgment. On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:06 PM, V S Rawat vsra...@gmail.com wrote: On 9/11/2009 6:56 PM India Time, _ichord_ wrote: I am hearing the words mediocre and average being thrown around in some places to describe Blue's music in some reviews. Guys, how can such brilliant work be average? It is a person's personal judgment whether a work is brilliant. Similarly, it is some other person's personal judgment whether a work is not brilliant, and is mediocre, below average. The depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is anything BUT average or below. Even saying above average is a huge understatement. You started with lyrics are said to be bad, then you take a switch to music is good to say that thus, lyrics also have to be good. see for yourself. It is not really logical line of thinking. depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is one aspect of the song, and that may be brilliant. Similarly, words/ lyrics are another a different aspect of the song and they may be mediocre/ below average while other aspects of songs are brilliant. One part being great doesn't make an entire song great. One part being wanting doesn't make overall song lacking. For example, in recent times, chak de india's song kuch kariye had such lovely, heart touching, earthly lyrics by an unknown Jaideep Sahni that would do even a Gulzar or Ghalib or Meer proud, but the music, was just ok, went too fast to let people absorb the lyrics, and the khichdi of loud in comparison chak de India refrain, and female chorus, backgroun just killed/ murdered/spoiled the beauty of the mukhda/ stanza portion of lyrics. This song should be taught in class room as the perfect case how to kill great lyrics. Similarly, Taare Zameen Par, had excellent hearth touching lyrics in dekho inhein hain os ki boondein, tune, music also good, still the song went a tad slow, too soft, introvert, subdued that it didn't get the prominence it could have deserved. Maa of the same movie were too emotional in lyrics, music and singing that it deserve to not get popular, irrespective of award it fetched for the singer. Again, all these are my personal judgment. ARR's Zindagi of Yuvraj has everything great, music, lyrics, whatever else. However, Ghajini's Kaise mujhe though we all like that a lot, now I think that that song is lacking something that I can't pinpoint really. may be, it went a tad too loud, sort of a declaration for a emotional song that should have been introspective - a la zindagi. But, other songs of ghajini -- and I am not speaking of latto and bachchoo which were intentionally kept cheap, had poor lyrics. The most popular guzarish had lyrics that a 10th standard child poet might write, just putting rhyming words matching scale - no thought, no concept, no inner beauty, no content - that was wordsmithing, words being fitted to give the shape of a song like a menial worker putting physical things to fit in a shape. Even then it got popular. Coming to lyrics of ballooo, blooo, ullooo, falloo, there are good urdu words put at places, that had not earlier been used much in ARR songs, so they sound good. But that is it and that is all. There is not much depth vibrating through entire song. These are just individual separate pieces that are good lyrics, but none of the entire song is a single whole entity having a life of its own, no single thought or line of thought peeking from the entire songs. It is a general feeling that ARR is quite confident (though I think too proud would have explained it better but that would hurt several of you) about his musical instincts and creativity, and I concede that rightly so, but that makes him ignore lyrics intentionally. Seems as if he considers lyrics are necessary evil and he is compromising the greatness of his music by putting lyrics in it. Sometimes he gets good poets so good lyrics come up but not as a rule of ARR songs, just because of the individual presence of a good lyrics writer who is not ready to compromise. Seems ARR's standard of lyrics is as low as jurrasic park mein sundar se jode rap music gaaye jam ke or patti rap or latka jhatka or telephone dhun mein hansne wali sort of cheapness presented in the name of lyrics. Again, all these are my personal judgment. Blue lyrics are better than Ghajini's, but still writer is appeaing as novice who might have good potential in future, but is a kid learning and experimenting at present. Again, all these are my personal judgment. Coming to music, I have been hearing Blue now for most of some 48 hours, and my conclusion is this. Blue music sounds so rich and complex as none of ARR's earlier album had been in toto till now. But, it lacks content, it is showbiz, it is decorative, it is soulless, it is all glitter and nothing else. I am listening to it and liking the beats etc., but it is not giving me
Re: [arr] There is nothing average about Blue's music!
fastastically written, some very valid points in here.i have some thoughts. Will type them out later On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:06 IST V S Rawat wrote: On 9/11/2009 6:56 PM India Time, _ichord_ wrote: I am hearing the words mediocre and average being thrown around in some places to describe Blue's music in some reviews. Guys, how can such brilliant work be average? It is a person's personal judgment whether a work is brilliant. Similarly, it is some other person's personal judgment whether a work is not brilliant, and is mediocre, below average. The depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is anything BUT average or below. Even saying above average is a huge understatement. You started with lyrics are said to be bad, then you take a switch to music is good to say that thus, lyrics also have to be good. see for yourself. It is not really logical line of thinking. depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is one aspect of the song, and that may be brilliant. Similarly, words/ lyrics are another a different aspect of the song and they may be mediocre/ below average while other aspects of songs are brilliant. One part being great doesn't make an entire song great. One part being wanting doesn't make overall song lacking. For example, in recent times, chak de india's song kuch kariye had such lovely, heart touching, earthly lyrics by an unknown Jaideep Sahni that would do even a Gulzar or Ghalib or Meer proud, but the music, was just ok, went too fast to let people absorb the lyrics, and the khichdi of loud in comparison chak de India refrain, and female chorus, backgroun just killed/ murdered/spoiled the beauty of the mukhda/ stanza portion of lyrics. This song should be taught in class room as the perfect case how to kill great lyrics. Similarly, Taare Zameen Par, had excellent hearth touching lyrics in dekho inhein hain os ki boondein, tune, music also good, still the song went a tad slow, too soft, introvert, subdued that it didn't get the prominence it could have deserved. Maa of the same movie were too emotional in lyrics, music and singing that it deserve to not get popular, irrespective of award it fetched for the singer. Again, all these are my personal judgment. ARR's Zindagi of Yuvraj has everything great, music, lyrics, whatever else. However, Ghajini's Kaise mujhe though we all like that a lot, now I think that that song is lacking something that I can't pinpoint really. may be, it went a tad too loud, sort of a declaration for a emotional song that should have been introspective - a la zindagi. But, other songs of ghajini -- and I am not speaking of latto and bachchoo which were intentionally kept cheap, had poor lyrics. The most popular guzarish had lyrics that a 10th standard child poet might write, just putting rhyming words matching scale - no thought, no concept, no inner beauty, no content - that was wordsmithing, words being fitted to give the shape of a song like a menial worker putting physical things to fit in a shape. Even then it got popular. Coming to lyrics of ballooo, blooo, ullooo, falloo, there are good urdu words put at places, that had not earlier been used much in ARR songs, so they sound good. But that is it and that is all. There is not much depth vibrating through entire song. These are just individual separate pieces that are good lyrics, but none of the entire song is a single whole entity having a life of its own, no single thought or line of thought peeking from the entire songs. It is a general feeling that ARR is quite confident (though I think too proud would have explained it better but that would hurt several of you) about his musical instincts and creativity, and I concede that rightly so, but that makes him ignore lyrics intentionally. Seems as if he considers lyrics are necessary evil and he is compromising the greatness of his music by putting lyrics in it. Sometimes he gets good poets so good lyrics come up but not as a rule of ARR songs, just because of the individual presence of a good lyrics writer who is not ready to compromise. Seems ARR's standard of lyrics is as low as jurrasic park mein sundar se jode rap music gaaye jam ke or patti rap or latka jhatka or telephone dhun mein hansne wali sort of cheapness presented in the name of lyrics. Again, all these are my personal judgment. Blue lyrics are better than Ghajini's, but still writer is appeaing as novice who might have good potential in future, but is a kid learning and experimenting at present. Again, all these are my personal judgment. Coming to music, I have been hearing Blue now for most of some 48 hours, and my conclusion is this. Blue music sounds so rich and complex as none of ARR's earlier album had been in toto till now. But, it lacks content, it is showbiz, it is decorative, it is soulless, it is all glitter and nothing else. I am listening to it and liking the
Re: [arr] There is nothing average about Blue's music!
??? --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, V S Rawat vsra...@... wrote: On 9/11/2009 6:56 PM India Time, _ichord_ wrote: I am hearing the words mediocre and average being thrown around in some places to describe Blue's music in some reviews. Guys, how can such brilliant work be average? It is a person's personal judgment whether a work is brilliant. Similarly, it is some other person's personal judgment whether a work is not brilliant, and is mediocre, below average. The depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is anything BUT average or below. Even saying above average is a huge understatement. You started with lyrics are said to be bad, then you take a switch to music is good to say that thus, lyrics also have to be good. see for yourself. It is not really logical line of thinking. depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is one aspect of the song, and that may be brilliant. Similarly, words/ lyrics are another a different aspect of the song and they may be mediocre/ below average while other aspects of songs are brilliant. One part being great doesn't make an entire song great. One part being wanting doesn't make overall song lacking. For example, in recent times, chak de india's song kuch kariye had such lovely, heart touching, earthly lyrics by an unknown Jaideep Sahni that would do even a Gulzar or Ghalib or Meer proud, but the music, was just ok, went too fast to let people absorb the lyrics, and the khichdi of loud in comparison chak de India refrain, and female chorus, backgroun just killed/ murdered/spoiled the beauty of the mukhda/ stanza portion of lyrics. This song should be taught in class room as the perfect case how to kill great lyrics. Similarly, Taare Zameen Par, had excellent hearth touching lyrics in dekho inhein hain os ki boondein, tune, music also good, still the song went a tad slow, too soft, introvert, subdued that it didn't get the prominence it could have deserved. Maa of the same movie were too emotional in lyrics, music and singing that it deserve to not get popular, irrespective of award it fetched for the singer. Again, all these are my personal judgment. ARR's Zindagi of Yuvraj has everything great, music, lyrics, whatever else. However, Ghajini's Kaise mujhe though we all like that a lot, now I think that that song is lacking something that I can't pinpoint really. may be, it went a tad too loud, sort of a declaration for a emotional song that should have been introspective - a la zindagi. But, other songs of ghajini -- and I am not speaking of latto and bachchoo which were intentionally kept cheap, had poor lyrics. The most popular guzarish had lyrics that a 10th standard child poet might write, just putting rhyming words matching scale - no thought, no concept, no inner beauty, no content - that was wordsmithing, words being fitted to give the shape of a song like a menial worker putting physical things to fit in a shape. Even then it got popular. Coming to lyrics of ballooo, blooo, ullooo, falloo, there are good urdu words put at places, that had not earlier been used much in ARR songs, so they sound good. But that is it and that is all. There is not much depth vibrating through entire song. These are just individual separate pieces that are good lyrics, but none of the entire song is a single whole entity having a life of its own, no single thought or line of thought peeking from the entire songs. It is a general feeling that ARR is quite confident (though I think too proud would have explained it better but that would hurt several of you) about his musical instincts and creativity, and I concede that rightly so, but that makes him ignore lyrics intentionally. Seems as if he considers lyrics are necessary evil and he is compromising the greatness of his music by putting lyrics in it. Sometimes he gets good poets so good lyrics come up but not as a rule of ARR songs, just because of the individual presence of a good lyrics writer who is not ready to compromise. Seems ARR's standard of lyrics is as low as jurrasic park mein sundar se jode rap music gaaye jam ke or patti rap or latka jhatka or telephone dhun mein hansne wali sort of cheapness presented in the name of lyrics. Again, all these are my personal judgment. Blue lyrics are better than Ghajini's, but still writer is appeaing as novice who might have good potential in future, but is a kid learning and experimenting at present. Again, all these are my personal judgment. Coming to music, I have been hearing Blue now for most of some 48 hours, and my conclusion is this. Blue music sounds so rich and complex as none of ARR's earlier album had been in toto till now. But, it lacks content, it is showbiz, it is decorative, it is soulless, it is all glitter and nothing else. I am
Re: [arr] There is nothing average about Blue's music!
Would love to hear your thoughts Wiredbeats. As a musician and composer myself, I can clearly say with factual certainty that in terms of pure compositional and musical terms only for a bollywood soundtrack, Blue is a masterpiece. It's not a personal judgement but a fact. What I will agree to is that whether you like the album due to taste or preference or whatever, that is an opinion, not a fact. Blue's music is compositionally brilliant due to intelligent harmonies, complex chord progressions, intricate orchestral variations, depth of sound, and varied use of sounds and instruments all weaving together at once. If you want to call the music average because you don't like that type of music, fine, but that is only an opinion due to preference, not because the music itself is just run of the mill. A lot of people don't like Mozart's music, but the music is not average by any means.it's intelligent and brilliant on an objective scale. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, wiredbeats wiredbe...@... wrote: fastastically written, some very valid points in here.i have some thoughts. Will type them out later On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:06 IST V S Rawat wrote: On 9/11/2009 6:56 PM India Time, _ichord_ wrote: I am hearing the words mediocre and average being thrown around in some places to describe Blue's music in some reviews. Guys, how can such brilliant work be average? It is a person's personal judgment whether a work is brilliant. Similarly, it is some other person's personal judgment whether a work is not brilliant, and is mediocre, below average. The depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is anything BUT average or below. Even saying above average is a huge understatement. You started with lyrics are said to be bad, then you take a switch to music is good to say that thus, lyrics also have to be good. see for yourself. It is not really logical line of thinking. depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is one aspect of the song, and that may be brilliant. Similarly, words/ lyrics are another a different aspect of the song and they may be mediocre/ below average while other aspects of songs are brilliant. One part being great doesn't make an entire song great. One part being wanting doesn't make overall song lacking. For example, in recent times, chak de india's song kuch kariye had such lovely, heart touching, earthly lyrics by an unknown Jaideep Sahni that would do even a Gulzar or Ghalib or Meer proud, but the music, was just ok, went too fast to let people absorb the lyrics, and the khichdi of loud in comparison chak de India refrain, and female chorus, backgroun just killed/ murdered/spoiled the beauty of the mukhda/ stanza portion of lyrics. This song should be taught in class room as the perfect case how to kill great lyrics. Similarly, Taare Zameen Par, had excellent hearth touching lyrics in dekho inhein hain os ki boondein, tune, music also good, still the song went a tad slow, too soft, introvert, subdued that it didn't get the prominence it could have deserved. Maa of the same movie were too emotional in lyrics, music and singing that it deserve to not get popular, irrespective of award it fetched for the singer. Again, all these are my personal judgment. ARR's Zindagi of Yuvraj has everything great, music, lyrics, whatever else. However, Ghajini's Kaise mujhe though we all like that a lot, now I think that that song is lacking something that I can't pinpoint really. may be, it went a tad too loud, sort of a declaration for a emotional song that should have been introspective - a la zindagi. But, other songs of ghajini -- and I am not speaking of latto and bachchoo which were intentionally kept cheap, had poor lyrics. The most popular guzarish had lyrics that a 10th standard child poet might write, just putting rhyming words matching scale - no thought, no concept, no inner beauty, no content - that was wordsmithing, words being fitted to give the shape of a song like a menial worker putting physical things to fit in a shape. Even then it got popular. Coming to lyrics of ballooo, blooo, ullooo, falloo, there are good urdu words put at places, that had not earlier been used much in ARR songs, so they sound good. But that is it and that is all. There is not much depth vibrating through entire song. These are just individual separate pieces that are good lyrics, but none of the entire song is a single whole entity having a life of its own, no single thought or line of thought peeking from the entire songs. It is a general feeling that ARR is quite confident (though I think too proud would have explained it better but that would hurt several of you) about his musical instincts and creativity, and I concede that rightly so, but that makes him ignore lyrics intentionally. Seems as if he
Re: [arr] There is nothing average about Blue's music!
Listeners seem to be average. sometimes... lack of knowledge of music are evident in some posts... Rahman is musicians' composer... not an average listener's composer. I think who doesn't like Mozart's or Rahman's composition. they should not open their mouth...it's their shame... Arijit 2009/9/11 ichord purev...@yahoo.com Would love to hear your thoughts Wiredbeats. As a musician and composer myself, I can clearly say with factual certainty that in terms of pure compositional and musical terms only for a bollywood soundtrack, Blue is a masterpiece. It's not a personal judgement but a fact. What I will agree to is that whether you like the album due to taste or preference or whatever, that is an opinion, not a fact. Blue's music is compositionally brilliant due to intelligent harmonies, complex chord progressions, intricate orchestral variations, depth of sound, and varied use of sounds and instruments all weaving together at once. If you want to call the music average because you don't like that type of music, fine, but that is only an opinion due to preference, not because the music itself is just run of the mill. A lot of people don't like Mozart's music, but the music is not average by any means.it's intelligent and brilliant on an objective scale. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com, wiredbeats wiredbe...@... wrote: fastastically written, some very valid points in here.i have some thoughts. Will type them out later On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:06 IST V S Rawat wrote: On 9/11/2009 6:56 PM India Time, _ichord_ wrote: I am hearing the words mediocre and average being thrown around in some places to describe Blue's music in some reviews. Guys, how can such brilliant work be average? It is a person's personal judgment whether a work is brilliant. Similarly, it is some other person's personal judgment whether a work is not brilliant, and is mediocre, below average. The depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is anything BUT average or below. Even saying above average is a huge understatement. You started with lyrics are said to be bad, then you take a switch to music is good to say that thus, lyrics also have to be good. see for yourself. It is not really logical line of thinking. depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is one aspect of the song, and that may be brilliant. Similarly, words/ lyrics are another a different aspect of the song and they may be mediocre/ below average while other aspects of songs are brilliant. One part being great doesn't make an entire song great. One part being wanting doesn't make overall song lacking. For example, in recent times, chak de india's song kuch kariye had such lovely, heart touching, earthly lyrics by an unknown Jaideep Sahni that would do even a Gulzar or Ghalib or Meer proud, but the music, was just ok, went too fast to let people absorb the lyrics, and the khichdi of loud in comparison chak de India refrain, and female chorus, backgroun just killed/ murdered/spoiled the beauty of the mukhda/ stanza portion of lyrics. This song should be taught in class room as the perfect case how to kill great lyrics. Similarly, Taare Zameen Par, had excellent hearth touching lyrics in dekho inhein hain os ki boondein, tune, music also good, still the song went a tad slow, too soft, introvert, subdued that it didn't get the prominence it could have deserved. Maa of the same movie were too emotional in lyrics, music and singing that it deserve to not get popular, irrespective of award it fetched for the singer. Again, all these are my personal judgment. ARR's Zindagi of Yuvraj has everything great, music, lyrics, whatever else. However, Ghajini's Kaise mujhe though we all like that a lot, now I think that that song is lacking something that I can't pinpoint really. may be, it went a tad too loud, sort of a declaration for a emotional song that should have been introspective - a la zindagi. But, other songs of ghajini -- and I am not speaking of latto and bachchoo which were intentionally kept cheap, had poor lyrics. The most popular guzarish had lyrics that a 10th standard child poet might write, just putting rhyming words matching scale - no thought, no concept, no inner beauty, no content - that was wordsmithing, words being fitted to give the shape of a song like a menial worker putting physical things to fit in a shape. Even then it got popular. Coming to lyrics of ballooo, blooo, ullooo, falloo, there are good urdu words put at places, that had not earlier been used much in ARR songs, so they sound good. But that is it and that is all. There is not much depth vibrating through entire song. These are just individual separate pieces that are good lyrics, but none of the entire song is a single
Re: [arr] There is nothing average about Blue's music!
Its not fair to compare the lyrics of the dubbed works of ARR with his current output. I think his recent Hindi works have far superior lyrics than heard in other works. Blue is average on the lyrics with some gems in between. Saagar ke dil me jitne khazaane Dil ke saagar me utne fasaane Warm Regards ~~~ Vinayak http://www.flickr.com/photos/rightplacerighttime/ On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:06 PM, V S Rawat vsra...@gmail.com wrote: On 9/11/2009 6:56 PM India Time, _ichord_ wrote: I am hearing the words mediocre and average being thrown around in some places to describe Blue's music in some reviews. Guys, how can such brilliant work be average? It is a person's personal judgment whether a work is brilliant. Similarly, it is some other person's personal judgment whether a work is not brilliant, and is mediocre, below average. The depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is anything BUT average or below. Even saying above average is a huge understatement. You started with lyrics are said to be bad, then you take a switch to music is good to say that thus, lyrics also have to be good. see for yourself. It is not really logical line of thinking. depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements is one aspect of the song, and that may be brilliant. Similarly, words/ lyrics are another a different aspect of the song and they may be mediocre/ below average while other aspects of songs are brilliant. One part being great doesn't make an entire song great. One part being wanting doesn't make overall song lacking. For example, in recent times, chak de india's song kuch kariye had such lovely, heart touching, earthly lyrics by an unknown Jaideep Sahni that would do even a Gulzar or Ghalib or Meer proud, but the music, was just ok, went too fast to let people absorb the lyrics, and the khichdi of loud in comparison chak de India refrain, and female chorus, backgroun just killed/ murdered/spoiled the beauty of the mukhda/ stanza portion of lyrics. This song should be taught in class room as the perfect case how to kill great lyrics. Similarly, Taare Zameen Par, had excellent hearth touching lyrics in dekho inhein hain os ki boondein, tune, music also good, still the song went a tad slow, too soft, introvert, subdued that it didn't get the prominence it could have deserved. Maa of the same movie were too emotional in lyrics, music and singing that it deserve to not get popular, irrespective of award it fetched for the singer. Again, all these are my personal judgment. ARR's Zindagi of Yuvraj has everything great, music, lyrics, whatever else. However, Ghajini's Kaise mujhe though we all like that a lot, now I think that that song is lacking something that I can't pinpoint really. may be, it went a tad too loud, sort of a declaration for a emotional song that should have been introspective - a la zindagi. But, other songs of ghajini -- and I am not speaking of latto and bachchoo which were intentionally kept cheap, had poor lyrics. The most popular guzarish had lyrics that a 10th standard child poet might write, just putting rhyming words matching scale - no thought, no concept, no inner beauty, no content - that was wordsmithing, words being fitted to give the shape of a song like a menial worker putting physical things to fit in a shape. Even then it got popular. Coming to lyrics of ballooo, blooo, ullooo, falloo, there are good urdu words put at places, that had not earlier been used much in ARR songs, so they sound good. But that is it and that is all. There is not much depth vibrating through entire song. These are just individual separate pieces that are good lyrics, but none of the entire song is a single whole entity having a life of its own, no single thought or line of thought peeking from the entire songs. It is a general feeling that ARR is quite confident (though I think too proud would have explained it better but that would hurt several of you) about his musical instincts and creativity, and I concede that rightly so, but that makes him ignore lyrics intentionally. Seems as if he considers lyrics are necessary evil and he is compromising the greatness of his music by putting lyrics in it. Sometimes he gets good poets so good lyrics come up but not as a rule of ARR songs, just because of the individual presence of a good lyrics writer who is not ready to compromise. Seems ARR's standard of lyrics is as low as jurrasic park mein sundar se jode rap music gaaye jam ke or patti rap or latka jhatka or telephone dhun mein hansne wali sort of cheapness presented in the name of lyrics. Again, all these are my personal judgment. Blue lyrics are better than Ghajini's, but still writer is appeaing as novice who might have good potential in future, but is a kid learning and experimenting at present. Again, all these are my personal judgment. Coming to music, I have been
