Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2023-Aug-08
On 2024-08-08 21:42, Eyal Rozenberg wrote: First, let us return to a point that I thought was already settled: Changes to help/documentation text are not a solution for problems with the LibreOffice UI. If a control or a label is confusing or inconsistent, that needs to be improved in the app itself, as best we can; and whatever the UI has - the documentation is for elaboration in greater detail, with more context and examples. Whilst good documentation is not a solution, it can describe workarounds for when things that the naive user does not expect to happen, do occur. For various reasons, the unexpected are more likely to be seen in CJKV, than other writing systems, but they do pop up elsewhere, with even more frustration in trying to figure out why things are not as expected. Let me rephrase the suggested changes briefly, here: * Split off writing mode control from direction control, using consistent and clearly-phrased labels. +1 Question: will rotation of glyphs be part of the writing mode control, or direction control, or independent of both? For some writing systems, glyph rotation has an impact on how to construct a document. For example, Boustrophedon Egyptian Hieroglyphics. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2023-Feb-15
On 15/02/2023 21:41, Eyal Rozenberg wrote: objections or claims which I would probably be able to convincingly rebut or disprove are stated and accepted with no retort or objection. An RFE masquerading as a bug report has to stand on its own merits. It has to provide a number of datapoints: * What the benefits of the enhancement are; * What the downsides of the enhancement are; * How to minimize the negative impact of those downsides; * How to minimize the negative impact of the enhancement; * Reasons why the enhancement would be declined; ** Explain why the reasons for declining the enhancement are insufficient to warrant doing so; * Present multiple use-cases showing how the enhancement aids usage; * Provide alternative choices of action to attain the desired outcome(s) that the RFE requests; * Demonstrate an understanding of how and why the current framework exists; jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Requirements for extension site
On 10/13/18 7:52 AM, Heiko Tietze wrote: > these insights we created a new document for a new hosting platform. The > document is shared on > https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/E5RX5xK6jxQPLdK and open for > discussion. Responding here, cause it is easier for me. (Not sure why the site let me download it once, without logging in, but when I tried to downloading it from my main system, it insisted on a password. And of course I failed the ReCapcha.) (For starters, why on earth is everything "default style"? All markup done manually‽‽‽ ) >If an extension is broken would be reported by users not the author. Some authors are pro-active, in determining if their extension is broken in a new version of LibO. There are also edge cases where an extension may run: * Only on one platform; Eg: Windows, but not Linux or Mac OS X. Android, but not Linux, Windows, or Mac OS X, etc. * Only with a specific language User Interface. IIRC, JILT is an example; * RUn only when another extension is also installed. By way of example, CMath requires CMathCAS to be installed. >Most of those are already in the metadata of an extension. Neither the current collected set of meta data, nor the set proposed within the document include every datapoint from Dublin Core, nor of its successor. If metadata is to be provided, at least do Dublin Core, if not its successor. >homepage. Is this really needed? Yes. It isn't uncommon for developer/creator to use something other than their email address for: * providing alpha/beta versions of extensions/templates; * feedback mechanism, be it a mailing list, or bugzilla or something else; * Additional documentation; For when the extension, or template appears to be abandoned, the homepage as oft as not: * states that the extension is no longer being developed, maintained, or supported; * has switched to commercial distribution and support only; * However, there is at least one vendor who declaims all knowledge of a LibO extension for their product; >Categories: Would strongly recommend to change this into single selection of category (dictionary, clipart, color palette...) with single selection and scope (Writer, Calc..) with multi selection. In essence I agree. There are a couple of corner cases, but they can be solved as they come up. Off hand, the only three examples I can think of, are an Accounting package, and a Project Management Package, both of which utilise Base, Calc, and Write, and a Business Startup package, which either utilises Calc, Impress, and Write, or just Impress and Calc. No extension may have more than one top level category. Do templates delivered as an extension belong under "extension" or "template"? Examples can be found at http://sourceforge.net/projects/ooop/files/Extension/2.4.0.4/ . I've seen reference to a corporate house style that appear to include colour palettes, dictionaries, fonts, and templates for Write, Calc, Impress, Draw, Math, and Base. If anything along those lines escapes from their corporate guard, simply make "House Style" a top level category. >Logo: As a user, I like seeing the logo, because it makes it more apparent if I found the extensions/template I want. By way of example, there are two extensions that assist with Greek characters _Ancient Greek_ and Polytonic Greek_. In a pinch, they sort of overlap, but for writing in Biblical Greek, the former is slightly more functional. Telling a Bible Study class that they want the extension with a red logo makes it far more likely that everybody in the class will get the "correct" extension. On the flipside, both Simplified Chinese Punctuation bar, and Traditional Chinese punctuation bar use the same logo. Really hard to differentiate between the two, by logo alone. Furthermore, as oft as note, taht logo is the identifier on whichever toolbar it places itself upon. >Extension most certainly contain a description of themselves. They do, but as oft as not, that description is inadequate. By way of example: * Which versions of GedCom does the GedCom Import extension support? * Which playback devices does the Transcriber extension support? * Which Braille printers does ODT2Braille support? (Ignoring that that extension appears to be abandoned.) >If the release would be a property of the project we could remove a lot of needed interactions. At the expense of requiring yet more volunteers, and cash, perhaps setting up extensions.git.libreoffice.org that is used exclusively to create extensions, templates, palettes, fonts, clip-art, etc. that is used by LibO should be done. This way, if the item has the appropriate license, a LibO volunteer could take over maintaining the item. Umm, maybe not extensions, per se, but certainly templates, sound-effects, and all the other things that are deliverable as .oxt files. Either a bot, or an individual could walk through each project, flagging it for missing items license.md, readme.md, metadata.md, etc. >Publishing Data, Expiration
Re: [libreoffice-design] Requirements for extension site
On 10/13/18 9:13 AM, Cor Nouws wrote: > Thanks, I added some comments, suggestions. And text (Ctrl+Shft+E starts Picking up a comment made by Heiko: «If the release would be a property of the project we could remove a lot of needed interactions. Drawback is that only one release is stored. Does that make sense?» This raises the idea that perhaps extensions.git.libreoffice.org should be a thing. A self-hosted git repository. Bot-driven, it would clone the developer's site, build the extension, and create the catalogue. Lot more thinking needs to be done about how to construct it, write the automation bots, etc. Still doesn't solve the issue of "not enough volunteers". Also means yet another piece of software that TDF has to look after. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Topic for design team to investigate: Content hosting consolidation on ask.libreoffice.org
On 10/12/18 8:05 PM, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: > site is already capable to host templates, and allows some of the things > missing on the current extension site. Until/unless the search function on ask.libreoffice is fixed, migrating there is going to ensure that absolutely, positively ensure that nobody will ever find the extension that they are looking for. (What on earth does setting up margins in Write have to do with Impress templates? Yet that was the first response to my search for Impress templates.) > But IMHO we should also look into what can be done with AskBot starting with > evaluating template hosting. Evaluating means just that: to learn what is > possible. a) Can you describe any existing template with enough specificity that somebody who is unfamiliar with ask.libreoffice will see the template, as the first hit, when they search for it? b) Are there enough _active_ moderators, so that the inevitable spam being presented as templates, get culled often enough so as to not pollute and render ask.libreoffice completely useless across the board? Now wondering if those so-called templates that were nothing more than the name of stores in small towns across the US, have been removed. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Topic for design team to investigate: Content hosting consolidation on ask.libreoffice.org
On 10/12/18 11:36 AM, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: > The second question then is how to get that metadata. E.g. the license has to > be in the extension itself. So why bothering to ask the uploader about it, > possibly causing even mismatched metadata, because the manual entry had a > different value than what is in the metadata of the extension itself. FWIW, I've come across several instances where the page displaying the extension, the page that displays the license when installing the extension, the license within the package, and the actual license were all very different. In one instance, the real license was a very restrictive ARR, whilst the others were either Open Source, or could have passed as being an open source crayon license. > Having a metric ton of metadata "just in case" we _might_ _possibly_ use it > one > day is BAD. Asking uploaders for huge amount of metadata in errorprone manual > entry is WORSE, esp. if that metadata is not useful for meaningful queries. Based on more than a decade of browsing various repositories, I have strong doubts that the uploader can provide accurate meta-data. > that metadata is not needed for a relevant and useful query to find > extensions. For an extension, the minimum required information is: * What version of LibO was it created for; * What component of LibO does it work with; * A description, in less than five English words, of what the extension does; * What License is it distributed under; * How big is it? I'm including that last one, because some extensions are huge: * CASS comes in at just under 1 GB; * A full blown installation of Language Tool is the best part of 40 GB. (I'm currently at 32 GB, and haven't finished installing it.) * One of the clip-art extensions comes in at just under 1 GB in size; > [1] E.g. Sure: we can query extension for the license they are published under > and only list those that have one specific license. But is there a > realistic use case for that? How many people will do that really? I for one, don't want to download what looks like a promising extension, or template, that claims to use an OpenSource license, only to discover that it really uses a a closed source license along the lines of "All your Bases, they belong to us". (In either the LibO or AOo extension repository, there is an extension with a crayon license along those lines.) > [2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_Viable_Product Where does that leave the template/extension combination that masquerades as an accounting package, whose license prohibits usage within a commercial context? jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Topic for design team to investigate: Content hosting consolidation on ask.libreoffice.org
On 10/12/18 9:28 AM, kainz.a wrote: > Template contributor: Share his template, don't care about LibO version As a template contributor, in theory, I'm not concerned about the specific version of LibO that is used. Two of the templates I've uploaded, haven't been broken by changes within LibO. For the third set of templates I've uploaded, every recent point release of LibO has broken something within the template. Usually trivial, and easy to fix. For template bug reports, LibO version number is mandatory and template version number is irrelevant, simple because the LibO version is the only thing I need, to fix 99.% of reported issues. In that 0.0001% where LibO isn't the culprit, I usually have an updated version of the template, that has a fix for their issue. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-Sep-05
On 2018-09-12 2:00 p.m., Pedro Rosmaninho wrote: > It´s nice to vote to keep something in, but when that something is constantly > breaking Why is it constantly breaking? Part of it is that it relies on a site operated and controlled by The Mozilla Foundation, using a product there that that organization has depreciated. Once upon a time, persona could be configured to use files on one's system. More specifically it was either /opt/libreoffice.version.number/share/gallery/ or /home/user-name/.config/libreoffice/4/user/gallery/persona or ~/share/gallery/persona/. Indeed, going into Expert Configuration, it looks like it can still be configured from there. However, like everything else in Expert Configuration, there is no user documentation. Is the "no" next to string, for Persona a boolean value, and if so, why isn't it marked as such. Or is it supposed to be the file? Playing with those values, doesn't enable Persona. Did I use "bad values"? Has the ability to configure it from the expert setting been completely removed? Has something else been broken? I can't tell. >and there's minimal dev interest to fix or improve it According to Archive.org, the average lifespan of a webpage is under 18 months. As such, relying on a third party website to provide functionality is incredibly short-sighted. >Would any of the people in favor be willing to fix it and improve it? It's as >simple as that. Personally, I'd rip out the "Select Firefox Theme", and at ">LibreOffice >Paths" under Type add "Persona", and set path "/home/toki/.config/libreoffice/4/user/gallery//persona" as the default. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Terminology modifications to Paste Special format
On 04/05/2018 01:22 PM, Heiko Tietze wrote: > * HTML (HyperText Markup Language) -> Web formatting (HTML) > + Samuel: I would just call this HTML, that's a common term > + Heiko: common but not according the convention > * HTML format -> Simple web formatting (HTML) > + Samuel: What exactly does this do in comparison to the HTML above? > + Heiko: no idea, the internal format is SIMPLE_HTML (and it's not shown in > the usual list) In theory, Simple HTML throws out the SPAN tag, CSS styles, and a couple of similar things. In practice, it depends. I've seen one implementation that threw out everything but a core of around 20 tags. I've also seen an implementation rewrite CSS styles into every tag, then throw away the CSS StyleSheet. Ideally, either online documentation, or a user manual created by the documentation team would list the tags and attributes used by Simple HTML. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] GSoC'17: Customization
On 06/04/2017 09:24 PM, Heiko Tietze wrote: >The question to me is why disabled persons would customize menu, toolbar, and >shortcuts. So it works with their A11Y software. Shortcut customization is related to which keystrokes, or keystroke sequences their software intercepts and sends to /dev/null. Menu and Toolbar customization is to make it easier to select items using a joystick, or similar tool. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] GSoC'17: Customization
On 05/30/2017 12:23 PM, Heiko Tietze wrote: > The project has started this week, so we need quick feedback. A simple > thumbs up or down is okay, explanations are better. Just want to make explicit my preference of Variant 2. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] GSoC'17: Customization
On 06/02/2017 11:35 AM, Alex ARNAUD wrote: > Also the variant 2 seems to take into account keyboard-only users like blind > persons. Not just blind people. With variant 2, automated tools/software can more easily interact with the program·, without using the normal APIs.(There are a couple A11Y tools that mimic human interaction, rather than software interaction.) FWIW, as a general rule of thumb, if a feature can be accessed via keyboard, and via mouse, it is going to be accessible for most people who have A11Y requirements, assuming that the A11Y software supports LibO.) jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Chart Colors
On 05/28/2017 11:01 AM, Heiko Tietze wrote: >as the chart colors are hard-coded. Going by http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/officecfg/registry/schema/org/openoffice/Office/Chart.xcs#30 it looks that users don't have the ability to change them. if so, that is unacceptable. In some industries, there are standard colour schemes for charts, and changing them will result in "bad interpretations". Corporate branding requirements include taboo colours. Colours that may not be used under any circumstances. By way of example, one of the universities in the United States prohibits black to be used in any content produced and distributed by it. This prohibitions extends to the student newspaper, academic thesis presented as part of the requirements of a degree, college advertising (^1), and presentations given by students, staff, faculty, and others, at conferences, conventions, and the like, if the name of the University is included as part of the identifier on the presenter. The official university colour palette has a shade named "dark text", which is to be used as a replacement for black. A different university has the colour "light text" in its official branding palette, to be used instead of white. Somebody else can go into the cultural, ethnic, and national taboos regarding colour. >The only advantage of the chart palette today is that users can find the color >directly (after switching to it). With a user selectible palette, the user can have a 12 colour palette just for use with charts. One that works with the corporate branding palette of 4 colours. To me, it seems simpler to use the same mechanism for selecting chart colours, as for the other places where users have that option. ^1: Even though the exclusive use of four-colour advertising wrecks havoc on the budget, doing so drives home the point that the official branding palette is used everywhere a message is presented for, by, or on behalf of the university. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Reason for creating document
On 04/20/2017 01:01 PM, Sławomir Lach wrote: > My idea is about fit UI of LO for current use reason. Whilst the only implementation (^1) of that I've seen, looked workable, two issues I saw were: * Confused users, because an unexpected, unfamiliar UI was presented. (^2); * Users of A11Y tools lost both functionality, and capabilities, due to the inability to access the relevant triggers; > so UI is fit for selected use reason. An example -- even if only mockups --- would be extremely useful here. Your example uses work-product delivery format. Something originally written for hard copy, could end up being printed to PDF, or more exotic, like DAISY.(^3) The implementation I saw, used document type (Invoice, Memo, Presentation Report, etc.) When the user can add document types, and make the appropriate UI modifications, it works. It totally falls apart, when one wants to use Draw for the Presentation Report, rather than Impress, Write, or Calc. For example, writter could show text in > webpage view mode, etc. The reason should been written into document. ^1: Third party add-on that is only available for the commercial vendor that created it. ^2: In as much as changing the TCIP Classification of a document can confuse users, an actual change in the UI will confuse users. ^3: Unless things have improved a lot in the last six months, DAISY support is a lost cause. This is one of those "nice to have" but "incredibly difficult to develop without a lot of financial backing" features. (Part of the financial backing is to pay the danegeld.) jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Numbering & Bullets
On 04/04/2017 07:59 PM, jan wrote: > Intuitively, I would say, my biggest issue with the bullets is that they are > big and ugly*: Create your own bullets using List Styles. That way, you get to control everything. > to talk about the default image ones (shapes in bright colors). You can use your own images in creating list styles. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] "LibreColour" palettes for LibreOffice
On 16/11/16 10:53, Heiko Tietze wrote: > I forward your message to the ML. As you may know we will have better user > palette management in 5.3. Meaning you can add colors in the area style > dialog to the newly introduced 'custom palette'. The former palette > management at Tools > Options > Color has been removed. Also document > colors will work now. Have those changes been incorporates into the 5.3 alpha version that is available from https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/?type=deb-x86_64&version=5.3.0&lang=af ? jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Aw: Re: [libreoffice-design] "LibreColour" palettes for LibreOffice
On 20/11/16 08:21, "Christoph Schäfer" wrote: >it doesn't make sense to remove most of the previously available palettes >until users can download them separately Which version of LibO will be the first one to ship _without_ the colour palettes? If it is LibO 5.3..0.x (the one that is currently either pre-alpha, alpha, or pre-beta), then that breakage is OK. If it is for a proposed 5.2.4, then removing it now is iffy. My theory is that in the next month or so, somebody will come up with an extension that correctly installs the *.so? files in ~/usr/config/. >the label would be "LibreColo*u*r", because fF / fC is based in Europe, The Spanish word for "Colour" is "Color". However, that doesn't negate using: * LibreKleur; * LibreCouleur; * LibreFarbe; * LibreCor; * LibreDath; instead. Dutch, French, German, Portuguese, and Irish, respectively. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: "LibreColour" palettes for LibreOffice
On 17/11/2016 22:33, V Stuart Foote wrote: > A palette of 16.7 million colors is a bit too many to scroll and pick from, > mind numbing to advance through. It makes a very good test of one's ability to discriminate between shades that are very closely related. > No restart is necessary and renaming standard.soc is the wrong approach as > that _would_ make for a bad UX. Rather, all the color dialogs should now > have option to select the palette to use. I haven't tested LibO 5.3.x, but in 5.2.X if you want to use a different colour palette in Write, you have to rename the desired palette to standard.soc. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] "LibreColour" palettes for LibreOffice
On 16/11/2016 08:24, Heiko Tietze wrote: >But it's hard to imagine how to deal with the 545 (luckily named) colors from the Scribus palette. Go back to 2004, and there were complaints from some people that the palettes for OOo didn't contain enough colours. Those complaints were what prompted me to create the colour palette at https://app.box.com/s/9552x6yjgcdlhbaf356vgmbd21k4oe9p. The second most common complaint I've received about that palette, is that the colours are not named. The most common complaint is the obvious one. # The size of the palette is not an issue, _if_ the colours are consistently ordered by hue ,chroma, and lightness. When colours are randomly ordered, such as by RGB value, or alphabetically, the palette becomes, at best, awkward to use. > Should we limit the number of palettes, Ship with one palette, but have additional palettes available for installation as an extension. ZD_Color_Palettes.oxt being an existing, albeit somewhat dysfunctional example. >have also a manageable size in terms of <50 colors (this is a very arbitrary number), postulate elaborated color names? Personally, I think that the minimum size should be 128 colours. One might be able to get away with a 64 colour palette, if alternative palettes are _easy_ for non-technical people to install. Both ooespalette.1.1.oxt and ZD_Color_Palettes.oxt throw an error, when attempting to install their *.soc files using the extension. For non-techies, this is a fail. # One other item to be considered, is that switching palettes from within LibO usually requires the program to be restarted. (My normal practice is to close LibO, copy the palette I want to standard.soc, then start LibO.) jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Bundled english fonts
On 12/10/2016 06:20, K-J LibreOffice wrote: > Vegur is used in the logo and accompanying text. Logos don't count, because they are images, rather than plain text. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Bundled english fonts
On 12/10/2016 02:12, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: > Am I correct that some of the LO documents used Vegur fonts? I thought that only Liberation fonts were used in the documentation. > maybe LO could suggest different fonts in the online documentation That idea has been tossed out before, but not come to fruition, partially due to the vast array of use cases, and partially because "acceptable" isn't usually an acceptable option. Set the boundaries of the discussion to specific use cases, allow "acceptable" as an option, and when writing up the results, specify the use case for the font. By way of example: * SBL BibLit: Biblical Languages: Usage mandated in _Southern Seminary Manual of Style_; * Times Roman: Manuscripts: Usage mandated in _APA Manual of Style_; * Unifont: Recommended as a backup Pan-Unicode font; > If we could have a good list of free fonts and/or free replacement fonts that > the LO users think would be a good The major issues (^1) I've come across with FLOSS fonts are: * Either Sans only, or Serif only; * One weight only; * One style only --- typically "Normal"; In contrast, for the typeface Helvetia, I have 296 different fonts, from two foundries, consisting of at least a dozen different styles, in a dozen different weights. ^1: Liberation typeface is an exception, coming in Mono, Sans, and Serif, with weights being Bold, Italic, Regular, or BoldItalic, and styles being Regular, or Narrow, for a total of 17 fonts. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Bundled english fonts
On 10/10/2016 20:58, Francisco Adrián Sánchez wrote: > I would for the approach of "2 serif fonts, 2 sans serif font, 1 or none > mono". When you talk about fonts, do you mean fonts, or typefaces? > Furthermore, I don't see the point of bundling Gentium Basic _and_ Gentium > Book Basic. If one is not a a typographer, then the differences between the two probably aren't noticeable. >Besides, *it doesn't count with Greek nor Cyrillic support*... For both Cyrillic and Greek, one needs a typeface designed for that specific writing system. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Default and bundled arabic fonts
On 07/10/2016 19:34, Yousuf Philips wrote: >I'm looking to get some Arabic fonts bundled with LO Droid Arabic *? I was under the impression that Google had dropped support of the Droid* fonts, in favour of NoTo* fonts. More crucially is how the fonts look: * When used with Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux; * Printed out on paper; * Printed to PDF, and read on a different system; I've forgotten which Arabic font is virtually illegible, when printed to PDF, even when embedded in the PDF. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: Color palette generator
On 27/09/2016 20:24, Francisco Adrián Sánchez wrote: > Document Foundation Wiki. Thus, if you are interested please look for the > file: > "File:Palette_Fortran_code.odt". The list strips attachments, and that link doesn't go anywhere. > some of you are already dealing with document themes. So, I think that the > idea behind it could be useful for you also. Suggestion: Rewrite your code as a LibO extension. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Additions (aka extensions and templates)
Quoting the document at http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/UX-GHNS i) Please add a title at the top of the document; ii) Define "extension"; iii) Define "template"; >The scope is limited to only extensions and templates My understanding is that the "proper" way to distribute additional palettes, icons, clipart, fonts, templates, etc, is as an extension. If that is not what the reader is to understand, provide definitions, including examples. By way of example: * Palette: Parabolic Colour Palette: http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/parabolic-colour-palette ; * Icons: Classic Theme: http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/classic-theme ; *Clipart: Gallery of Danger Signs: http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/gallery-of-danger-signs ; * Fonts: I don't have an example here. I've a dim recollection that either OOOP-accesories- or OOOP-Accesories-nonfree- included fonts. (I've got too many fonts installed (^1), to tell if fonts are installed by either extension.) Browse https://sourceforge.net/projects/ooop/files/Extension/ , or more specifically, https://sourceforge.net/projects/ooop/files/Extension/2.6.0.2/ for additional extensions. (Due to a hard drive failure, I no longer have my collection of AOo/EO/LibO/NO/OOo/OOoP extensions.) *Templates: OxygenOffice Professional English Templates: http://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/oxygenoffice-extra-english-templates. The LibO template at http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/grabritos-para-cd-pimaco/releases/1.0 does not have an extension, which is why I'm not using it as an example here. I don't know if Infra can correct that omission, or not. >Features/Functional Requirements Two big issues here are: * Keeping the number of options at each level to five, or less. Whilst design theory says one can go to seven,by restricting the number of options to five, an overage of one or two won't result in instant over-choice confusion; * Getting the sequence in which choices are made, logical, relevant, and consistent; + The classic example of bad sequencing is selecting a car, by fist choosing the type of body, then the colour, then type of engine, then the number of doors, and finally the number of seats. If you're like most consumers, you start with a K-Platform, because that is the only thing you recognize, and only when you reach the number of seats, do you realize that an SUV is not available; + Good sequencing starts by asking if you want a pickup truck, SUV, 2 door, 4 door, 5 door, or something else. Then it asks about seats, engine, colour, and the rest of personalizations that one desires.(^2); >Adrian wants to distribute additions for the users in his enterprise only. Something I'd like see, is an option to install all extensions in one directory. A long time ago, there was an extension for FireFox, that did just that. A more specific use-case would be installing dictionaries for three or four languages. For example: * In Vancouver BC, installing French & English (official languages), Chinese (dominant language), and Spanish (South American refugees that escaped from the United States) is more or less normal; * Users in South Africa might want to install dictionaries for each official language. There are either 11 or 13 (^3) of them; >(Benjamin Another use-case would be to filter out extensions & templates that have had no releases. For example http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/storage-made-easy-multi-cloud-file-explorer/releases >Scope > Personas: Yes, please! Can the internal code be modified/rewritten to load personas from one's local system? /home/toki/.config/libreoffice/4/user/gallery/personas/ implies that this functionality was part of the design specs. >Table Styles, Area fill patterns: No need to include and distribute all options I'm not sure if that includes, or excludes: * SOB: Bitmaps: Presumably for Impress backgrounds; * SOC: Colour palettes; * SOD: Dashes; * SOE: Markers. Currently only Arrowheads are available; * SOG: Gradient table; * SOH: Hatch table; Regardless, I think inclusion of those file types _when_ delivered as extensions. Discussion about other modes of delivery/installation might be useful. >New design/Mockup >it should automatically filter out entries that don't reach the additions LO version requirement. * Leave the ability to search by version number, with the default being the most recently released version. There are some users who, for various reasons, have to use an older version; * Have an option to search "All versions", that has to be specifically selected by the user. Some extensions haven't been updated in years, but still work correctly; * Have an option to search "Fresh Version" and "Still Version", that point to the current version, respectively;
Re: [libreoffice-design] Blogging with LibreOffice?
On 30/06/2016 18:37, Blindjourno wrote: > I would like to know if there is a way to blog with LibreOffice directly > within the program either through an extension or some other method? I write/edit blog posts using LibreOffice, then do a cut and paste. If looks OK after pasting it to the blog, I'll leave it as is. However, more often than not, both WordPress and Blogger have mess up the formatting, so I end up hand-editing the HTML that they created. I've a dim recollection of seeing an extension that could post directly to either Blogger or WordPress, but browsing The EuroOffice, Apache Open Office, and LibreOffice extension sites come up with nothing. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [tdf-core] Square Logo for TDF
K-J wrote: > - Text "TheDocumentFoundation" should not be green as TDF does not only > respresent LibO (=DLP). Does the Document Foundation have an unofficial/semi-official/official livery? The search I did using various search engines failed to find one. (Which means squat, because the same search engine using the same set of search strings will present two different users, or the same user using different software/hardware, very different results.) jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] 1024 colour palette
All: As alluded to in my messages about the Draw Survey, the colour palette I use for LibO has more than 1024 colours. (38,120 if "cat standard.soc | grep name | wp -l" is to be believed. Not all colours are unique. If more unique colours are needed, http://libreoffice-environment.blogspot.com/2010/11/ultimate-colour-palette-for-libreoffice.html has the code to take care of that issue.) The largest organized colour palette I have, contains 678 unique colours. Question: * Can somebody point me to an organized palette in the 1000 - 1100 unique colour range? * Is there anybody willing and able to help select colours for a 1024 colour palette, based upon that 678 colour palette? jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Results from the Draw Survey
On 13/04/2016 08:46, Pedro Rosmaninho wrote: > but if you held and released it only when it has a 1024 color > palette it would have bigger impact because you would release something > already much more polished and usable. The marketing team could then give > more emphasis to that. I realize I wasn't clear, but I'm using a Calc template to abuse LibO as a pixel-by-pixel editor. This is very much just because something can be done, does not mean that it should be done. That said, waiting till LibO 6.0 is released, offers some interesting marketing possibilities. FYI, There are 164 colours, 105 colours, and 166 colours in the core AOo 3.x, EO 2014, and LibO 4.3 colour palette, respectively. Getting up to 1024 colours in incredibly time consuming. (I basically have to do it all in one session.) jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Results from the Draw Survey
On 11/04/2016 06:58, Heiko Tietze wrote: > We run some of the previous studies localized. Even Chinese was > included in one of the surveys. The problem is that not only waiting > for the translation team heavily reduces the velocity but also the > analysis of free text answers needs language expertise. That was partially why I wrote "If the L10N teams are available". My assumption being that an L10N team, or member thereof willing to translate into the target language, would also be willing, and able to translate responses, if needed. (Machine translation can go so far, before it fails spectacularly.) >> I'm finally creating a comprehensive list of use-cases. > UX team decided to compile the results into a couple of bugs. Maybe we can > work together. In as much as reading the responses ended up in me getting side tracked abusing LibO as a pixel-by-pixel editor (export only), I haven't gotten any further than a quasi outline. ### I'm trying to decide if the pixel-by-pixel template should be released as a work in progress, with updates as the colour palette increases, or if I should wait until it has a 1024 colour palette. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Results from the Draw Survey
On 25/03/2016 08:12, Heiko Tietze wrote: > My intention was to summarize in terms of use-cases. And the article should > contain all high-level things. Not sure if it is exhaustive, but you should > be > able to get an idea yourself from the results. Is the only locale in the survey « EN »? If so, may I suggest that going forward, surveys include other locales. I realize that this probably means translating the survey into other languages. I'd suggest adding Japanese, Spanish, and either French or German. (If the L10N teams are available, and willing, I'd include Hindi or Urdu, Arabic or Hebrew, Russian, and Chinese in the list of target locales.) > If you take the text analysis document you may use the auto filter. I'm finally creating a comprehensive list of use-cases. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Results from the Draw Survey
On 24/03/2016 09:29, Heiko Tietze wrote: >> Can you redo the charts in colour, rather than B&W. > Sure. But why? Improve3s readability/ease of understanding. >And what color? Each one a different colour. >> comprehensive, and more complete set of citations. > I'm afraid of making the post lengthy, more than it is. It also might be hard > to find good citations. Most replies are just one-worders. Use numbered end notes. That way people who glaze over notes know that they can stop reading, without losing any content, whilst those who want more information, can have pointers to it. By more comprehensive, I mean things like stating that the House Plan is part of a 3D model, created using LibO. If possible, point to a tutorial that describes how to use Draw to create house plans. "mathematical Constructions" was something I didn't expect to see. I'm assuming this refers to creating a math formula, that is beyond the current capability/functionality of the Math component of LibO. Clarification that that is what is meant would be useful. I don't remember the other points that I would have expected a citation for, if only because they were things that I didn't expect Draw to be able to accomplish what was described. > This floor plan is one of the most complex vector drawing I found. I'd say it is complicated, and a very interesting use-case. Assuming he hasn't yet written one in Spanish, can he be convinced to write a tutorial on how others can use Draw to create house plans. > Thanks for the reminder. Documentation is requested in the outlook section. Missed that one. :( Do you have a list of all of the different use cases that were provided in the survey? If so, can you add them at to the missing documentation page at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Documentation_missing If you don't, then, assuming that https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByWdNpQKVjM8bF91TGJCUXlFUk0/view?pref=2&pli=1 is still live, I can grab the data, and create the use cases to add to that list. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Results from the Draw Survey
On 23/03/2016 16:51, Heiko Tietze wrote: > read critical to make sure that it's not too concise, not boring, and > that you can follow the argumentation. Can you redo the charts in colour, rather than B&W. > The result is a personal conclusion that should be verified. I didn't read the individual survey responses, but based upon what you wrote there, and the comments that came up in discussing the survey, I think the only change would be adding that documentation has not kept up with changes to draw. > Also I suggest to left out the citations in the final publication. If anything, the final publication needs to include a more comprehensive, and more complete set of citations. Whist it was obvious to me that the house plan from 1991 was not originally created with LibO, I couldn't tell from either your report, or from reading the blog it came from, if the new house plan was created with LibO, or if the user thought that they should be able to recreate the house plan using LibO. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] New default fonts
On 20/02/2016 15:44, Tim wrote: > Here is the text from the Unifont web site [reformated for this email]. I only had unifont 7.x.ttf installed, where "x" is the digits I don't remember. (I've since deleted it, and installed all four.) I've since installed the 8.x fonts. I'll play with them later this week. Same basic issue: only one weight, and one typeface, though. > I do not have the 14+ GB fonts installed. I did that on a laptop running both Linux and Win7. It took me a couple of weeks to figure out why windows performance was so pathetic, especially in comparison to Linux. > For me, I do not know how many font names I have since most of them have > several TTF/OTF files for the bold/italic/etc. styles. You don't use a font organizer? OTOH, none of the font organizers for Linux I've come across, will walk specific directories in which one stores uninstalled fonts. > that I use for making signs and posters for a few not-for-profit groups and > organizations. Specific use-case exception. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] New default fonts
On 20/02/2016 20:29, Tim wrote: > Here is the text from the Unifont web site [reformated for this email] . I only had unifont 7.x.ttf installed, where "x" is the digits I don't remember. (I've since deleted it, and installed all four.) I've installed the 8.x fonts today. I'll play with them later this week. Same basic issue: only one weight, and one typeface, though. > I do not have the 14+ GB fonts installed. I did that on a laptop running both Linux and Win7. It took me a couple of weeks to figure out why windows performance was so pathetic, especially in comparison to Linux. > For me, I do not know how many font names I have since most of them ha ve > several TTF/OTF files for the bold/italic/etc. styles. You don't use a font organizer? OTOH, none of the font organizers for Linux I've come across, will walk specific directories in which one stores uninstalled fonts. > that I use for making signs and posters for a few not-for-profit groups and organizations. Specific use-case exception. > I do not know about OSX, but for Linux you have the option to install > the MS core Fonts - "ms-core-font-installer" or something like that - > from the Linux repository, or at least with Ubuntu. If you are talking about the package from https://sourceforge.net/projects/corefonts/ then: * Fonts distributed with Win10 are missing; * It includes fonts that are not distributed with Win10; Rephrasing, even if one installs and uses those fonts, there is no guarantee that a Win10 user will have those fonts. >The trouble still is that it seems most people have their favorite free font[s] that they want to be part of LO's install. That is because most people think that their specific use-case is the only use-case. Something to pay attention to, is font requirements according to the various style manuals. By way of example, _The APA Publication Manual_ (2010) requires the use of Times New Roman. The _Southern Seminary Manual of Style_ mandates the use of SBL BibLit for Greek and Hebrew text, and Times New Roman for papers written in English. > Choosing the best ones for most users is the tricky part. There are three or four conflicting requirements here: * Include as few fonts as possible, to reduce potential system performance degradation; * Cover all of the common use-cases for each language/writing system combination; * Cover at least some of the unusual use-cases for each language/writing system combination; This is part of the reason why I think it would more suitable for the L10N to construct a country/language/writing system specific extension to install fonts, dictionaries, grammar checkers, and the like for their target language and country. Since I cited the Japanese extension earlier: * http://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/dsfj-takao, which excludes fonts. Oops, it also requires one to set the default language to Japanes e; * http://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/default-settings-japanese, which also excludes the requisite fonts; * http://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/dsfj-ipaex, which also excludes the requisite fonts. I thought one of them also installed the appropriate fonts for writing Japanese. :( I don't know if any of them work with the current version of AOo, EO, or LibO. > I am glad I am the the one who has to make that decision. Can you rephrase that? I'm not sure if the first "the" should be "not", or if the second "the" should be deleted. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] New default fonts
On February 19, 2016 5:03:59 PM PST, Tim wrote: >Personally, I think you cannot have any font that has "everything" for >"everyone's" needs. Three or four core fonts, and an extension similar to the one that optimizes LibO for Japanese, for then 40 or so writing systems that LibO supports. Let the font junkies and the grammatologists install all of those extensions. >I really thing we need to have a good/free unicode font that has many >of the characters/glyphs that are available. Unifont is libre and covers most of the Unicode 7.0 glyphs. IMNSHO, its biggest flaw is its weight. Its lack of slant and type options are also flaws. >LibreOffice [14+ GB worth of TTF and OTF fonts]. I see two major issues with that many installed fonts: * Windows takes forever and a day to start; * Finding the right font is extremely difficult; I have no idea how many fonts I have. My laptop claims an impossibly high figure. >I do wish LO can find a set of the best freely available fonts to >bundle with LO's installations, but that is really easy to say and not easy >to. +1 In an ideal world, each L10N / i18n team would create an extension tbat installs the best libre fonts, along with other useful tools for the language(s) they target. EG: Isreal l10n extension would include fonts, the Nikkud placement extension, along with Hebrew dictionary, and grammar checker. >is being used for, or how long it has been since I last looked as For most people, for most purposes, more then three font families is too many. Within font families, more than 25 fonts is usually excessive. Translating that into LibO: * Unifont: font family #1: only one font is offered; * Gentium: font family # 2: either 3 or 4 fonts are offered; * Courier: font family #3: only be font is offered: This is a monotype font. Those 6 fonts work for the majority of use-cases for Latin writing systems. jonathon -- Multilingual ODF Support -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Reviews of Libre Office focusing on the UI...
On 23/09/15 13:08, Pedro Rosmaninho wrote: > of the functions of the formatting toolbar are present in the Sidebar. > Maybe we could experiment removing the formatting toolbar by default? Whilst I am all in favour of abolishing the formatting bar, including its complete and utter elimination from the sidebar, the issue I see, if the formatting bar is removed, is people that have Stylist, Navigator, and the formatting toolbar open at the same time. Can all three be correctly displayed, in full, in the side bar? > "Data" section in the Sidebar to manipulate Filtering and Ordering (plus a > few other functions only present in menus) and transporting a lot of the Elimination of a toolbar should not result in the elimination of menu items. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Validity of survey data
On 06/15/2015 01:25 PM, Heiko Tietze wrote: > I'm sorry but you get me wrong. I was refering to Dingo-Dog and Tommy as > trolls. The issue with using terms like "troll" is that those not intended to be branded as such, do get branded as such. A second reason is that the term has now come to mean "they advocate that which I do not approve of, but I have no rational, logical, irrational, stupid, or insane point by which their claims can be refuted, because I know that they are 100% correct, but I none-the-less disapprove of what they advocate. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: The Sidebar Problem
On 1/28/2014 2:00 PM, Daniel Hulse wrote: >Some people have said that the sidebar emphasizes direct formatting. Those people are wrong. In as much as it shows that direct formatting is possible, it is an abomination. I would not know there was such a thing as styles if it were not for the sidebar. I take it you never ever looked at the formatting bar --- which is also a thing accursed, but it saved from being an abomination, because it does display the name of the style, and provide similar functionality as whatever WP had, that so many people request, and fail to recognize is already present in LibO, by judicious use of the formatting bar. Many times, people want to make one-page documents that they can quickly make and print out, and direct ad-hoc formatting is perfectly fine for that. If you don't understand why direct formatting is an abomination in a one-off one time only document, you don't understand the virtue of styles. I assume you already know that 70% of the time, that "one-off one time only document" is neither a one time only thing, nor a one-off document". I don't like menus. Menus are a good thing for fully-featured applications Menus are _mandatory_ if LibO is to have any hope of being a11y. As is, LibO is barely a11y. "Barely a11y" is probably overstating how anti-a11y the current setup is. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-users] AOO for Android - not worth the download
On 06/22/2013 04:58 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote: >>What type of features and options are really needed, or People replaced their desktop with a laptop. Now they are replacing their laptop with a tablet. So whatever you used to do on a desktop, or laptop, will be done on a tablet. >> But what editing options will you need? The biggest point of failure of EuroOffice, is that it makes no provision for styles. To me, that is a failure on a par with the mean time of 15 seconds from starting MSO, to seeing the Blue Screen of Death. > This is a little confusing to me. You mention LibreOffice and Apache > OpenOffice for Android, but as far as I know there is no Apache OpenOffice > for Android, The description matches AndrOffice, which is a port of Apache OpenOffice to Android. jonathon -- LibreOffice in a Multi-Lingual Environment. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Font repository integration
On 09/11/2012 11:48 AM, Sveinn í Felli wrote: > Counting the number of used styles and fonts would be nice to have somewhere, some power users may appreciate. Once upon a time, and extension was available that did that. Guessing, it died around the time that OOo 1.1.4 was released. TestFonts lists fonts that are used. However, it didn't install when I last updated LibO. (I didn't look into why it didn't install, but my money is on Ubuntu being the point of failure. (I have this bad habit of assuming that DEB files in the Ubuntu repositories are neither broken, nor will break my system. LibO is one of half a dozen programs that should never be installed from the Ubuntu repository, because the result is guaranteed to be broken somehow, somewhere, when one leasts expect it.)) jonathon -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Screenshots for LibreOffice documentation
On 07/07/2011 04:59 AM, David Nelson wrote: > I somehow *feel* that Microsoft would be much less likely to succeed in such > hypothetical action in European courts. It doesn't matter if Microsoft wins or loses the judicial decision. What matters is if the defendants have the cash to pay for their legal fees. Legal fees that could have been avoided by not using Microsoft's alleged intellectual property in the first place. > feeling that it is not especially beneficial to ensure that all screenshots > look identical (in terms of the theme used). I'm going to argue that consistency of theme is important. Especially for a new user. A change in colouration is usually interpreted as being a change of data. When the colouration changes simply as a result of a change of theme, that simply introduces noise into the content. In a similar vein, the same window manager, and set of utilities should be used. At the best of times, people can be tripped up by the simplest, most trivial differences between what they see on their screen, and what screenshots show. Throw in a mixture of window managers, and you are begging for them to be tripped up. Consider the difference in function and appearance of the default file manager for Xfce(Thunar) and KDE (Konquer). Compare both of those with Windows (Explorer). > Nor do I personally feel it's particularly beneficial to ensure that all screenshots be taken using a theme based on colors from the LibreOffice Design/Marketing pallet. That is called branding. Something that helps establish, and identify the product. Something that needs to be consistently adhered to, even when one can't understand the requirement for doing so. jonathon -- If Bing copied Google, there wouldn't be anything new worth requesting. If Bing did not copy Google, there wouldn't be anything relevant worth requesting. DaveJakeman 20110207 Groklaw. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Usability comes from stability
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/05/2011 20:11, Octavio Alvarez wrote: >> Have you ever tried to copy and paste fifty pages out of a hundred page >> document? It was easy to do in WordStar but difficult with all of the >> scrolling in current era programs. WordStar had a simple command to mark a >> starting spot for selection and another command to mark the ending spot for a selection. > Try placing the cursor in the start of the text block you want to copy,scroll > down to the end of the block, shift+click on the last character. > Adjust with shift+arrows. The OP is looking for the LibO equivalent of: ^KB Use the search function to locate the end of the text. ^KK Where ^KB inserts a text marker to denote the beginning to the text, and ^KK inserts a text marker to denote the end of the text. Furthermore, one could set those markers in any sequence, with any number of operations between them. Additionally, one could delineate two blocks of text that would remain distinct. This is vastly from setting the cursor on the start of the block, then scrolling to the end of the block, especially when the end is more than 2500 lines away. I don't remember if it was WordStar, or one of its competitors that had a function that enabled one to jump "x" lines, where "x" was a number that the user supplied, each time that function was invoked. For people who touch type, or are blind, WordStar was probably the best word processor that has ever been developed and distributed. jonathon - -- If Bing copied Google, there wouldn't be anything new worth requesting. If Bing did not copy Google, there wouldn't be anything relevant worth requesting. DaveJakeman 20110207 Groklaw -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNyhpnAAoJEERA7YuLpVrVknkIAIkHZBF9ORXkH+M0Mla6g8fX 8uHP4SpB7+YgMg463/goaTA2tw0HAK/oy+O6VrKgNJayiDI8x0LtR8nWefzEW3X1 d+Jov4q0BvPHuCBd12d4W0A/j3cNu/cWJ12RQjMKqoMU721uGdTv8tC6zkieVHlE 45dGBrfBMUIhfHnB1RMqwtx0HgyzOAMUo+uhVk8jH4GevW/uV9Yo680HFsjFDEzI RJbF0nqXBJoLiQ1X4ADBiVS6ORPY1GvZxT+ksdjpQcJ/vwdRKDPeCEwVYq5vpCFd FiDeZw94e4l6/E/kYf828X19XnGVzbJdY1d2tnyR13NPSnzLheTwzLtYKH4wNSI= =1tt0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] They need graphic material, WE NEED A MOTIF!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 19/02/2011 23:08, Daniel Merker wrote: > and an overarching color scheme for the suite, not individual programs. Could you more clearly differentiate between what you are proposing, and the LibreOffice colour palette, _without_ using Microsoft, or any other company as an example. jonathon - -- If Bing copied Google, there wouldn't be anything new worth requesting. If Bing did not copy Google, there wouldn't be anything relevant worth requesting. DaveJakeman 20110207 Groklaw. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNYcPjAAoJEERA7YuLpVrVy7EH/0mJkdQgy733PYY7GtuEzqlU m1QpUX9poZFpLgK7mgesR4pgMkIUQyTiwx4E17+U54RXUMZNan/Fi+X8iDm5l6Z4 3qes+dUCHGOhYLefDR1Dm4CYOgkZxQSCV6wwTNX51VWWFjdjsKE8D0GQKUs5W6SM //AYEtcp2PmRo82tLanzTAjL9ZkxAUpwKM5bB/rowIoxfnRcrOEDMN5AJSvA/2v5 oh8vIWx4+Zx0fIqxKJ+SWe0UEFAnGuJqQv2upSyYXKLi86oBObc4y1BwSynNiWCM Y0+6nY1R4nndeIJH7rK2Q0HVDbxqpI+yz2y7a8Gft1MgNOLdoFySm4J0iVTu32E= =BSBp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
