Re: [Fwd: Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9]
On 12/26/2010 02:08 PM, Ramon Sole wrote: But Alexandro is involved in some way in TDF, as it seems he manages the official es.libreoffice.org site. Doesn't he? This has happened during the last two days, but we are going to take care of this unfortunate mess. Thanks for pointing this out. Anyway, thanks again for your previous answer, as I understand you don't have any duty on doing so. Why not? I think that the Spanish project deserves a better structure, anyway. -- Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com Mobile +39.348.5653829 VoIP: +39.02.320621813 Skype: italovignoli - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
[Fwd: Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9]
Hello Italo, * thanks for your response. But Alexandro is involved in some way in TDF, as it seems he manages the official es.libreoffice.org site. Doesn't he? See http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/es/discuss/msg00057.html where he asks for contributions to the http://es.libreoffice.org/ site, as he were the site manager. Furthermore, oooes.org is being promoted in the site too. The local archive list for the site es.libreoffice.org is pointed to oooes.org: http://es.libreoffice.org/contribuye/ Sincerely, I'm atonished about the mess. Anyway, thanks again for your previous answer, as I understand you don't have any duty on doing so. Best Regards, Ramon Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 02:23:06 +0100 From: Italo Vignoli it...@italovignoli.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9 On 12/21/2010 12:21 AM, Ramon Sole wrote: well, documentfoundation.es was registered by Alexandro, and he stated himself in the OpenOffice.org Spanish lists he was in thight relationship with the TDF about that domain. We have registered only the international domains for TDF, while we have registered the national domains for LibreOffice (because it makes sense to have local product web sites). Alexandro has tried to get involved, but has not managed to get involved. Unfortunately, Internet rules allow some mess, and the registration of the web site is part of this mess. If you can read a little Spanish you will find interested that message, about a (one more) discussion with Alexandro and his involvement in TDF (regarding the documentfoundation.es domain that time) while keeping, in OpenOffice.org, the Spanish NLP leadership. http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=usersmsgNo=9186 Alexandro states Yo hablo directamente con el webmaster de DocumentFoundation.org -- Florian Effemberg. It translates to I talk directly to the webmaster of DocumentFoundation.org -- Florian Effemberg So I inferred Alexandro was involved with TDF, at least in some way, just because he himself stated it. If not, sorry for my mistake. I can definitely read Spanish (I'm Italian, and in addition I speak a little Spanish). Everyone in the OOo community knows Florian, so it's easy to say that you speak with him. But if you look at TDF web site, you will realize who are the people behind the project. And I agree, the mess concerns just the OpenOffice.org Spanish Community. I apologize for involving TDF on it and I thank you for your message. The mess, unfortunately, refers to the entire Spanish speaking community, because the situation risks to make it under represented in every free software project. BTW, if Alexandro has no relationship with TDF then you have a problem with the domain documentfoundation.es, it has been kidnapped. See below. This is a minor problem. We own the trademark, and no one can use the trademark unless authorized by TDF. A domani without a chance of being associated with a trademark is just empty. -- Italo Vignoli tel +39.348.5653829 VoIP: +39.02.320621813 it...@italovignoli.com skype italovignoli - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [Fwd: Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9]
Dear Ramon, Italo will answer but allow me to bring my 2 eurocents. Le Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:08:24 +0100, Ramon Sole ramon.s...@opscons.com a écrit : Hello Italo, * thanks for your response. But Alexandro is involved in some way in TDF, as it seems he manages the official es.libreoffice.org site. Doesn't he? See http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/es/discuss/msg00057.html where he asks for contributions to the http://es.libreoffice.org/ site, as he were the site manager. Furthermore, oooes.org is being promoted in the site too. The local archive list for the site es.libreoffice.org is pointed to oooes.org: http://es.libreoffice.org/contribuye/ Sincerely, I'm atonished about the mess. Anyway, thanks again for your previous answer, as I understand you don't have any duty on doing so. Alexandro seems to try hard to act as if he were an official member of the Document Foundation. I have repeatedly pointed out that indeed the ES pages look like OOES is the official representative of the Document Foundation. Although they're welcome to contribute they have no mandate to represent us nor to act on our behalf. It is indeed confusing and I'm sorry for this, but it seems some people strive on ambiguity, unfortunately. Merry Christmas to everyone, Charles-H. Schulz. Best Regards, Ramon Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 02:23:06 +0100 From: Italo Vignoli it...@italovignoli.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9 On 12/21/2010 12:21 AM, Ramon Sole wrote: well, documentfoundation.es was registered by Alexandro, and he stated himself in the OpenOffice.org Spanish lists he was in thight relationship with the TDF about that domain. We have registered only the international domains for TDF, while we have registered the national domains for LibreOffice (because it makes sense to have local product web sites). Alexandro has tried to get involved, but has not managed to get involved. Unfortunately, Internet rules allow some mess, and the registration of the web site is part of this mess. If you can read a little Spanish you will find interested that message, about a (one more) discussion with Alexandro and his involvement in TDF (regarding the documentfoundation.es domain that time) while keeping, in OpenOffice.org, the Spanish NLP leadership. http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=usersmsgNo=9186 Alexandro states Yo hablo directamente con el webmaster de DocumentFoundation.org -- Florian Effemberg. It translates to I talk directly to the webmaster of DocumentFoundation.org -- Florian Effemberg So I inferred Alexandro was involved with TDF, at least in some way, just because he himself stated it. If not, sorry for my mistake. I can definitely read Spanish (I'm Italian, and in addition I speak a little Spanish). Everyone in the OOo community knows Florian, so it's easy to say that you speak with him. But if you look at TDF web site, you will realize who are the people behind the project. And I agree, the mess concerns just the OpenOffice.org Spanish Community. I apologize for involving TDF on it and I thank you for your message. The mess, unfortunately, refers to the entire Spanish speaking community, because the situation risks to make it under represented in every free software project. BTW, if Alexandro has no relationship with TDF then you have a problem with the domain documentfoundation.es, it has been kidnapped. See below. This is a minor problem. We own the trademark, and no one can use the trademark unless authorized by TDF. A domani without a chance of being associated with a trademark is just empty. -- Italo Vignoli tel +39.348.5653829 VoIP: +39.02.320621813 it...@italovignoli.com skype italovignoli - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org -- Charles-H. Schulz Associé / Founding Partner Ars Aperta. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [Fwd: Re: Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9]
Hi Ramon, Ramon Sole wrote: Hello Peter, BTW, you cc'd d...@es.openoffice.org on your message, but I can't find any message about that thread in the archives of that list. AFAIK, messages are getting only archived when they have been send TO, but not as CC. I'm currently working myself through the ES mailing lists archives --which are *not* visible at [1] as they should-- with the help of Google Translate and it seems like there are interesting things to learn. So I'm not sure if anyone in d...@es.openoffice.org received your message. I guess they should be receiving my messages. Best regards, Peter [1] http://es.openoffice.org/comunidad/listas.html Best Regards, Ramon Original Message Subject: Re: Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 01:44:50 +0100 From: Ramon Sole ramon.s...@opscons.com To: dev@marketing.openoffice.org CC: mar...@marketing.openoffice.org, d...@es.openoffice.org, discuss...@es.openoffice.org References: 4d0e8d6b.7090...@openoffice.org Hello Peter, Alexandro is one of the main sponsors of oooES. Threre was a lot of discussion and disagreement in the Spanish list about the promotion of the oooES project, privately held by a few people, as an alternative to OOo, as the promotion has been done inside of OOo itself. There has not been any consensus in the Spanish Community about how the Spanish site has been managed. On the contrary, a bitter discussion has been started about the attempt to migrate OOo users to the oooES site and the way the lists have been used to try to get that. If anyone browses the discuss Spanish list recent archives he will find lots of messages claiming for a conflict of interests with Alexandro and other Southamerican regional marcom leaders because of the oooES site and their involvement in TDF. I essentially agree your POV and I'm sure many other people who doesn't read the English lists would too. Best Regards, Ramon --- Hola Peter, Alexandro es uno de los promotores principales de oooES. Ha habido mucha discusión y desacuerdo en las lista españolas sobre la promoción del proyecto oooES, bajo el control de unas pocas personas, como una alternativa a OOo, dado que la promoción se ha realizado internamente desde OOo. No ha habido consenso en la conunidad española sobre como se ha manejado el sitio español. Al contrario, se ha abierto una discusión bastante agria sobre el intento de mover los usuarios de OOo al sitio oooES y la forma como se han utilizado las listas para probar de conseguirlo. Cualquiera que hojee los archivos recientes de la lista de discuss en español encantrará muchos mensajes quejándose por un conflicto de intereses por parte de Alexandro y otros marcom lideres de regiones sudamericanas por el caso del sitio oooES y su involucración con TDF. Yo estoy esencialmente de acuerdo con tu punto de vista y estoy seguro de que muchas otras personas que no leen las listas en inglés también lo estarían. Un saludo, Ramon --- Peter Junge wrote: div class=moz-text-flowed style=font-family: -moz-fixedAlexandro The problem I have with oooES is that it seems to build a parallel universe to OOo. As I said before, the oooES project (I assume you are one of the persons in charge) is using the mailing list page of the ES project to detour users, while the native mailing lists are blanked out although they are still active. ... My concern is, that you seem to leave OOo to do your own thing with OOoES. Hence, what would be the interest of OOo to be funding you? ... Would be great if others could comment on this, especially those from the ES project. Of course, my POV may be wrong as I'm only taking an outside view. Maybe it's not apparent, but the Marketing Project is insofar concerned and an auditor --not for the NLCs, but for e.g. you-- as travel funding are coming from the Marketing budget. Best regards, Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
[marketing] Re: [d_es] Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9
+1 El 20/12/10 03:59, Ariel Constenla-Haile escribió: Hello * On Sunday 19 December 2010, 23:16, Roman Gelbort wrote: Peter. Both, Ariel and Ramón, are 2 of 4 or 5 dissatisfied users in one list of hundreds of users. please quote links to those hundreds of user supporting Alexandro's recent decisions. I can only count one -1 on http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss_esby=threadfrom=2436682 and another one -1 on http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss_esby=threadfrom=2436683 (I guess that if this had been decisive, Alexandro would no longer be our Project Lead). But they speak english and another users not. The Alexandro's job in NLC Spanish is titanic. You can see the number of posts in the lists (users, discuss and dev) in spanish. Nobody help more users in spanish like Alexandro... ¿How many does a person like him? Ariel and Ramón... and 3 or 4 more can speak about to the bad leader, but none of them work in the community like the community need. Only speak and protest. please go search the archives by author before speaking (and also read the content! not only numbers matter) If you believe that Alexandro can't ask the budget for promote and help one community in SCALEx... ok, is your prerogative. This don't have relation with NLC ES. Please, don't criticize oooES if you don't know oooES. oooES is for the users... no, it's you and a limited group of people. Please stop abusing the term user and Community to justify yourself. and the users that nobody help in your languaje. We, the founders of oooES, aggregated teens of thousands of migrated desktops in our professional works. And we can and want help the community, beyond of this distro war (OOo, LibO and OOo4Kids). We want help to anybodies, without irritate to OOo or LibO... ¿Is this possible? Best regards. Regards -- José Carlos Simón Vallejo Técnico de Grado Medio Informático Departamento de Informática Junta de Andalucía Consejería para la Igualdad y Bienestar Social Delegación Provincial de Málaga Avda. Manuel Agustín Heredia, 26 29001-Málaga Tel. 951036463 Corp. 936463 Email: josec.s.vallejo (a) juntadeandalucia.es PAntes de imprimir este e-mail piense bien si es necesario hacerlo. Imprima a doble cara siempre que pueda. Este correo electrónico y, en su caso, cualquier fichero anexo al mismo, contiene información de carácter confidencial exclusivamente dirigida a su destinatario o destinatarios. Queda prohibida su divulgación, copia o distribución a terceros sin la previa autorización explícita del Servicio de Informática de la Consejería para la Igualdad y Bienestar Social. Si no es Ud. el destinatario del mensaje le ruego lo destruya sin hacer copia digital o física, comunicando al Servicio de Informática de la Consejería para la Igualdad y Bienestar Social vía e-mail o fax la recepción del presente mensaje. Toda declaración de voluntad contenida deberá ser tenida por no producida. Gracias. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9
On 12/20/2010 01:44 AM, Ramon Sole wrote: There has not been any consensus in the Spanish Community about how the Spanish site has been managed. On the contrary, a bitter discussion has been started about the attempt to migrate OOo users to the oooES site and the way the lists have been used to try to get that. If anyone browses the discuss Spanish list recent archives he will find lots of messages claiming for a conflict of interests with Alexandro and other Southamerican regional marcom leaders because of the oooES site and their involvement in TDF. Let's be very straightforward: there isn't any involvement whatsoever of Alexandro and any other South American marcon in TDF. We feel that the same mess concerns the entire Spanish free software community. -- Italo Vignoli tel +39.348.5653829 VoIP: +39.02.320621813 it...@italovignoli.com skype italovignoli - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
[Fwd: Re: Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9]
Hello Peter, BTW, you cc'd d...@es.openoffice.org on your message, but I can't find any message about that thread in the archives of that list. So I'm not sure if anyone in d...@es.openoffice.org received your message. Best Regards, Ramon Original Message Subject: Re: Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 01:44:50 +0100 From: Ramon Sole ramon.s...@opscons.com To: dev@marketing.openoffice.org CC: mar...@marketing.openoffice.org, d...@es.openoffice.org, discuss...@es.openoffice.org References: 4d0e8d6b.7090...@openoffice.org Hello Peter, Alexandro is one of the main sponsors of oooES. Threre was a lot of discussion and disagreement in the Spanish list about the promotion of the oooES project, privately held by a few people, as an alternative to OOo, as the promotion has been done inside of OOo itself. There has not been any consensus in the Spanish Community about how the Spanish site has been managed. On the contrary, a bitter discussion has been started about the attempt to migrate OOo users to the oooES site and the way the lists have been used to try to get that. If anyone browses the discuss Spanish list recent archives he will find lots of messages claiming for a conflict of interests with Alexandro and other Southamerican regional marcom leaders because of the oooES site and their involvement in TDF. I essentially agree your POV and I'm sure many other people who doesn't read the English lists would too. Best Regards, Ramon --- Hola Peter, Alexandro es uno de los promotores principales de oooES. Ha habido mucha discusión y desacuerdo en las lista españolas sobre la promoción del proyecto oooES, bajo el control de unas pocas personas, como una alternativa a OOo, dado que la promoción se ha realizado internamente desde OOo. No ha habido consenso en la conunidad española sobre como se ha manejado el sitio español. Al contrario, se ha abierto una discusión bastante agria sobre el intento de mover los usuarios de OOo al sitio oooES y la forma como se han utilizado las listas para probar de conseguirlo. Cualquiera que hojee los archivos recientes de la lista de discuss en español encantrará muchos mensajes quejándose por un conflicto de intereses por parte de Alexandro y otros marcom lideres de regiones sudamericanas por el caso del sitio oooES y su involucración con TDF. Yo estoy esencialmente de acuerdo con tu punto de vista y estoy seguro de que muchas otras personas que no leen las listas en inglés también lo estarían. Un saludo, Ramon --- Peter Junge wrote: div class=moz-text-flowed style=font-family: -moz-fixedAlexandro The problem I have with oooES is that it seems to build a parallel universe to OOo. As I said before, the oooES project (I assume you are one of the persons in charge) is using the mailing list page of the ES project to detour users, while the native mailing lists are blanked out although they are still active. ... My concern is, that you seem to leave OOo to do your own thing with OOoES. Hence, what would be the interest of OOo to be funding you? ... Would be great if others could comment on this, especially those from the ES project. Of course, my POV may be wrong as I'm only taking an outside view. Maybe it's not apparent, but the Marketing Project is insofar concerned and an auditor --not for the NLCs, but for e.g. you-- as travel funding are coming from the Marketing budget. Best regards, Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9
Alexandro Colorado wrote: On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:37 AM, Peter Junge p...@openoffice.org wrote: Hi Alexandro, Alexandro Colorado wrote: Hi I want to ask the budget commitee for 500 dls for expenses to SCALEx9. I want to put the petition even if SCALE still have not finished the CFP. I submitted a couple of talks and I am still waiting for the final approval. However budget processes have been a bit slow lately so I want to put an early petition here. maybe the processes are slow because you are sending your request recurrently to the wrong address. AFAIR, Florian had mentioned this many times. A budget request has to raised with the budget custodian, which is currently me. Mailing lists are welcome to be CCed, but it's not mandatory. Last year I participated with a lightning talk on OOo4Kids which you can watch here: http://jza.blip.tv/file/3261755/ After the talk I got to talk with the core organizers which were interested into expanding the participation for communities such as OOo in the US. And geared me to participate next year with a wider talk about OOo/ODF etc. This year I am giving a talk on ODF with an OpenGovernment angle, targeting the success stories gather from South America and Europe. If we fund you to attend the SCALEx9, we have to make sure that you are still with OOo. I had a look at the ES project at the OOo website and I have to say, that there are a couple of issues puzzling me, hence I want to raise some concerns: Firstly, the design of http://es.openoffice.org/ is not as it should be with OOo. Usually one finds the main project links such as member list, mailing lists etc., but they are hidden. They only becoming visible after moving on to Conoce OOo or Servicios. Being there, I have been having a look at Comunidad::Listas de Correos and got really irritated. (http://es.openoffice.org/comunidad/listas.html) The OOo mailing lists have apparently been dropped in preference of other mailing lists hosted as http://oooes.org/. I'm not in favor for such a solution, but it might still be a agreement of the community. However, the worst problem for me is, that the OOo mailing list archives are not reachable from this point. IMHO, that's totally inappropriate. Even more confusing is, that the d...@es mailing list still seems to have significant traffic, see: http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev Can you please comment my above observations. Secondly, I have been visiting http://oooes.org/ then. It promotes both OOo and LibreOffice, which many here see as a competing product and community. So, if you are going to attend the SCALEx9 on behalf and the expenses of OOo, will yo exclusively promote OOo or will you promote the whole ecosystem? The flow chart (http://oooes.org/images/interacciones-oooes.png) on the main page looks a bit like OOoES is closer tight to the TDF and LibO, rather than OOo. (BTW, the way OOoES is using the new OOo logo is IMHO against the guidelines.) $500 would allow me to partially pay for my travel expenses. I would still need to chip from my own money to pay for hotel. Please comment on the above concerns before we proceed. I am not sure, this is a oooES issue at all, nor was intervention at SCALE last year. There is no business for the spanish NLC in the US. The problem I have with oooES is that it seems to build a parallel universe to OOo. As I said before, the oooES project (I assume you are one of the persons in charge) is using the mailing list page of the ES project to detour users, while the native mailing lists are blanked out although they are still active. Last year I was promoting the projects of the Education Project, being ooo4kids. This year it will be a more technical approach than last year -- hopefully. I dont think I ever pushed ES NLC as you might see on the discussion from last year budget request between Cor and myself nor on the video from the talk. So to answer your question, I probably won't be pushing the spanish NLC at any point of the conference. My concern is, that you seem to leave OOo to do your own thing with OOoES. Hence, what would be the interest of OOo to be funding you? Would be great if others could comment on this, especially those from the ES project. Of course, my POV may be wrong as I'm only taking an outside view. About the changes that you see, well most of them have been taken from a community consensus on what is best for the contributors. I am not sure if this concerns marketing project, since I really never seen the marketing project as an auditor for what NLC groups do or dont do. I am confused, can you please explain? Maybe it's not apparent, but the Marketing Project is insofar concerned and an auditor --not for the NLCs, but for e.g. you-- as travel funding are coming from the Marketing budget. Best regards, Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For
Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9
Hello Peter, * On Sunday 19 December 2010, 19:55, Peter Junge wrote: My concern is, that you seem to leave OOo to do your own thing with OOoES. Hence, what would be the interest of OOo to be funding you? Would be great if others could comment on this, especially those from the ES project. most people on the ES mailing lists do not follow the discussions on the international OOo lists. Of course, my POV may be wrong as I'm only taking an outside view. About the changes that you see, well most of them have been taken from a community consensus on what is best for the contributors. this is not true. Alexandro, please point us to the mailing list archives where all these have been publicly discussed and approved. I can point to the following threads: http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss_esby=threadfrom=2436682 http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss_esby=threadfrom=2436683 unfortunately most people do not speak Spanish. But these threads show that some people do not agree with *yours* decisions. Besides this issues within the ES Project, IMO you are under-qualified to represent OpenOffice.org at any sort of conference or talk; it is unfortunate here too that most people do not speak Spanish, this is the only reason I found why you have gone so far inside a meritocratic Community. Regards -- Ariel Constenla-Haile La Plata, Argentina signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9
Peter. Both, Ariel and Ramón, are 2 of 4 or 5 dissatisfied users in one list of hundreds of users. But they speak english and another users not. The Alexandro's job in NLC Spanish is titanic. You can see the number of posts in the lists (users, discuss and dev) in spanish. Nobody help more users in spanish like Alexandro... ¿How many does a person like him? Ariel and Ramón... and 3 or 4 more can speak about to the bad leader, but none of them work in the community like the community need. Only speak and protest. If you believe that Alexandro can't ask the budget for promote and help one community in SCALEx... ok, is your prerogative. This don't have relation with NLC ES. Please, don't criticize oooES if you don't know oooES. oooES is for the users... and the users that nobody help in your languaje. We, the founders of oooES, aggregated teens of thousands of migrated desktops in our professional works. And we can and want help the community, beyond of this distro war (OOo, LibO and OOo4Kids). We want help to anybodies, without irritate to OOo or LibO... ¿Is this possible? Best regards. -- ~~~ Prof. Román H. Gelbort http://www.piensalibre.com.ar Por 10 años con una oficina Open... desde ahora también LIBRE ~~~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9
Hello * On Sunday 19 December 2010, 23:16, Roman Gelbort wrote: Peter. Both, Ariel and Ramón, are 2 of 4 or 5 dissatisfied users in one list of hundreds of users. please quote links to those hundreds of user supporting Alexandro's recent decisions. I can only count one -1 on http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss_esby=threadfrom=2436682 and another one -1 on http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss_esby=threadfrom=2436683 (I guess that if this had been decisive, Alexandro would no longer be our Project Lead). But they speak english and another users not. The Alexandro's job in NLC Spanish is titanic. You can see the number of posts in the lists (users, discuss and dev) in spanish. Nobody help more users in spanish like Alexandro... ¿How many does a person like him? Ariel and Ramón... and 3 or 4 more can speak about to the bad leader, but none of them work in the community like the community need. Only speak and protest. please go search the archives by author before speaking (and also read the content! not only numbers matter) If you believe that Alexandro can't ask the budget for promote and help one community in SCALEx... ok, is your prerogative. This don't have relation with NLC ES. Please, don't criticize oooES if you don't know oooES. oooES is for the users... no, it's you and a limited group of people. Please stop abusing the term user and Community to justify yourself. and the users that nobody help in your languaje. We, the founders of oooES, aggregated teens of thousands of migrated desktops in our professional works. And we can and want help the community, beyond of this distro war (OOo, LibO and OOo4Kids). We want help to anybodies, without irritate to OOo or LibO... ¿Is this possible? Best regards. Regards -- Ariel Constenla-Haile La Plata, Argentina signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9
Hi Alexandro, Alexandro Colorado wrote: Hi I want to ask the budget commitee for 500 dls for expenses to SCALEx9. I want to put the petition even if SCALE still have not finished the CFP. I submitted a couple of talks and I am still waiting for the final approval. However budget processes have been a bit slow lately so I want to put an early petition here. maybe the processes are slow because you are sending your request recurrently to the wrong address. AFAIR, Florian had mentioned this many times. A budget request has to raised with the budget custodian, which is currently me. Mailing lists are welcome to be CCed, but it's not mandatory. Last year I participated with a lightning talk on OOo4Kids which you can watch here: http://jza.blip.tv/file/3261755/ After the talk I got to talk with the core organizers which were interested into expanding the participation for communities such as OOo in the US. And geared me to participate next year with a wider talk about OOo/ODF etc. This year I am giving a talk on ODF with an OpenGovernment angle, targeting the success stories gather from South America and Europe. If we fund you to attend the SCALEx9, we have to make sure that you are still with OOo. I had a look at the ES project at the OOo website and I have to say, that there are a couple of issues puzzling me, hence I want to raise some concerns: Firstly, the design of http://es.openoffice.org/ is not as it should be with OOo. Usually one finds the main project links such as member list, mailing lists etc., but they are hidden. They only becoming visible after moving on to Conoce OOo or Servicios. Being there, I have been having a look at Comunidad::Listas de Correos and got really irritated. (http://es.openoffice.org/comunidad/listas.html) The OOo mailing lists have apparently been dropped in preference of other mailing lists hosted as http://oooes.org/. I'm not in favor for such a solution, but it might still be a agreement of the community. However, the worst problem for me is, that the OOo mailing list archives are not reachable from this point. IMHO, that's totally inappropriate. Even more confusing is, that the d...@es mailing list still seems to have significant traffic, see: http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev Can you please comment my above observations. Secondly, I have been visiting http://oooes.org/ then. It promotes both OOo and LibreOffice, which many here see as a competing product and community. So, if you are going to attend the SCALEx9 on behalf and the expenses of OOo, will yo exclusively promote OOo or will you promote the whole ecosystem? The flow chart (http://oooes.org/images/interacciones-oooes.png) on the main page looks a bit like OOoES is closer tight to the TDF and LibO, rather than OOo. (BTW, the way OOoES is using the new OOo logo is IMHO against the guidelines.) $500 would allow me to partially pay for my travel expenses. I would still need to chip from my own money to pay for hotel. Please comment on the above concerns before we proceed. Best regards, Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:37 AM, Peter Junge p...@openoffice.org wrote: Hi Alexandro, Alexandro Colorado wrote: Hi I want to ask the budget commitee for 500 dls for expenses to SCALEx9. I want to put the petition even if SCALE still have not finished the CFP. I submitted a couple of talks and I am still waiting for the final approval. However budget processes have been a bit slow lately so I want to put an early petition here. maybe the processes are slow because you are sending your request recurrently to the wrong address. AFAIR, Florian had mentioned this many times. A budget request has to raised with the budget custodian, which is currently me. Mailing lists are welcome to be CCed, but it's not mandatory. Last year I participated with a lightning talk on OOo4Kids which you can watch here: http://jza.blip.tv/file/3261755/ After the talk I got to talk with the core organizers which were interested into expanding the participation for communities such as OOo in the US. And geared me to participate next year with a wider talk about OOo/ODF etc. This year I am giving a talk on ODF with an OpenGovernment angle, targeting the success stories gather from South America and Europe. If we fund you to attend the SCALEx9, we have to make sure that you are still with OOo. I had a look at the ES project at the OOo website and I have to say, that there are a couple of issues puzzling me, hence I want to raise some concerns: Firstly, the design of http://es.openoffice.org/ is not as it should be with OOo. Usually one finds the main project links such as member list, mailing lists etc., but they are hidden. They only becoming visible after moving on to Conoce OOo or Servicios. Being there, I have been having a look at Comunidad::Listas de Correos and got really irritated. (http://es.openoffice.org/comunidad/listas.html) The OOo mailing lists have apparently been dropped in preference of other mailing lists hosted as http://oooes.org/. I'm not in favor for such a solution, but it might still be a agreement of the community. However, the worst problem for me is, that the OOo mailing list archives are not reachable from this point. IMHO, that's totally inappropriate. Even more confusing is, that the d...@es mailing list still seems to have significant traffic, see: http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev Can you please comment my above observations. Secondly, I have been visiting http://oooes.org/ then. It promotes both OOo and LibreOffice, which many here see as a competing product and community. So, if you are going to attend the SCALEx9 on behalf and the expenses of OOo, will yo exclusively promote OOo or will you promote the whole ecosystem? The flow chart (http://oooes.org/images/interacciones-oooes.png) on the main page looks a bit like OOoES is closer tight to the TDF and LibO, rather than OOo. (BTW, the way OOoES is using the new OOo logo is IMHO against the guidelines.) $500 would allow me to partially pay for my travel expenses. I would still need to chip from my own money to pay for hotel. Please comment on the above concerns before we proceed. I am not sure, this is a oooES issue at all, nor was intervention at SCALE last year. There is no business for the spanish NLC in the US. Last year I was promoting the projects of the Education Project, being ooo4kids. This year it will be a more technical approach than last year -- hopefully. I dont think I ever pushed ES NLC as you might see on the discussion from last year budget request between Cor and myself nor on the video from the talk. So to answer your question, I probably won't be pushing the spanish NLC at any point of the conference. About the changes that you see, well most of them have been taken from a community consensus on what is best for the contributors. I am not sure if this concerns marketing project, since I really never seen the marketing project as an auditor for what NLC groups do or dont do. I am confused, can you please explain? Best regards, Peter -- Alexandro Colorado OpenOffice.org Español http://es.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
RE: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9
Sorry Folks, but we run at different speeds and different tracks...Bill Siler Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:37:32 +0800 From: p...@openoffice.org To: j...@openoffice.org CC: dev@marketing.openoffice.org; mar...@marketing.openoffice.org Subject: Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9 Hi Alexandro, Alexandro Colorado wrote: Hi I want to ask the budget commitee for 500 dls for expenses to SCALEx9. I want to put the petition even if SCALE still have not finished the CFP. I submitted a couple of talks and I am still waiting for the final approval. However budget processes have been a bit slow lately so I want to put an early petition here. maybe the processes are slow because you are sending your request recurrently to the wrong address. AFAIR, Florian had mentioned this many times. A budget request has to raised with the budget custodian, which is currently me. Mailing lists are welcome to be CCed, but it's not mandatory. Last year I participated with a lightning talk on OOo4Kids which you can watch here: http://jza.blip.tv/file/3261755/ After the talk I got to talk with the core organizers which were interested into expanding the participation for communities such as OOo in the US. And geared me to participate next year with a wider talk about OOo/ODF etc. This year I am giving a talk on ODF with an OpenGovernment angle, targeting the success stories gather from South America and Europe. If we fund you to attend the SCALEx9, we have to make sure that you are still with OOo. I had a look at the ES project at the OOo website and I have to say, that there are a couple of issues puzzling me, hence I want to raise some concerns: Firstly, the design of http://es.openoffice.org/ is not as it should be with OOo. Usually one finds the main project links such as member list, mailing lists etc., but they are hidden. They only becoming visible after moving on to Conoce OOo or Servicios. Being there, I have been having a look at Comunidad::Listas de Correos and got really irritated. (http://es.openoffice.org/comunidad/listas.html) The OOo mailing lists have apparently been dropped in preference of other mailing lists hosted as http://oooes.org/. I'm not in favor for such a solution, but it might still be a agreement of the community. However, the worst problem for me is, that the OOo mailing list archives are not reachable from this point. IMHO, that's totally inappropriate. Even more confusing is, that the d...@es mailing list still seems to have significant traffic, see: http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev Can you please comment my above observations. Secondly, I have been visiting http://oooes.org/ then. It promotes both OOo and LibreOffice, which many here see as a competing product and community. So, if you are going to attend the SCALEx9 on behalf and the expenses of OOo, will yo exclusively promote OOo or will you promote the whole ecosystem? The flow chart (http://oooes.org/images/interacciones-oooes.png) on the main page looks a bit like OOoES is closer tight to the TDF and LibO, rather than OOo. (BTW, the way OOoES is using the new OOo logo is IMHO against the guidelines.) $500 would allow me to partially pay for my travel expenses. I would still need to chip from my own money to pay for hotel. Please comment on the above concerns before we proceed. Best regards, Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
