Re: [DNG] Interesting Read on Linux Permissions

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 6:48 AM Linux O'Beardly via Dng
 wrote:
>
> I was "aware" of this, but I don't know that I understood it. I'm actually 
> not sure that I understand it now, but I'm more aware of it than I was before.
>
> https://medium.com/@boutnaru/linux-security-capabilities-part-1-63c6d2ceb8bf
>

Couple of interesting 'networking' articles too.

HTH
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Re: [DNG] Question re: screen blanking and shutoff

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Sep 3, 2022 at 6:26 AM onefang  wrote:
>
> For what it's worth I just discovered that xscreensaver now has
> xscreensaver-systemd, and is running on my Chimaera desktop.  "The
> xscreensaver-systemd program is a helper program to integrate
> xscreensaver with systemd(1)."
>

I dunno if this will help mr onefang but here is a present day report.

I have found that there is a large difference in screensaver operation
depending upon the browsers being used.
There are 'only' some 7 - - - or is that 8 different browsers available for
use in my system. Four of which I use most all the time.

Perhaps my use of system resources also adds to the issue so will also
describe this.

I have some 5 monitors (4 - 1920x1080s and 1 4k) running from a
Ryzen 570X. I have a plethora of desktops (well over 25!!!).

Firefox allows me to use browser windows on more than one desktop
and only occasionally causes issues (usually when there is a version
update but that's a different peeve). The other three all use a
Chrome (maybe a Chromium but their literature says Chrome) backend
with their 'stuff' as a frontend. For these three the windows are only used
one 1 () desktop as a reboot does NOT place the windows on the
previous desktops used. These three browser are Opera, Brave and
Vivaldi. Opera is the most pita out of the three in that it likes blocking
the use of a screensaver (will not allow a screen shut off just goes
to the pretty blips part of the screen saver).

When I first reported this behavior the suggestion was given to just
use a 'kill' on the browsers, followed by a restart on each, to get the
screensaver system operational. Well for the last about month I
just kill Opera and restart it and my screensaver system is back.

IMHO the programming to requires this kind of usage - - - well its
most definitely NOT good.

I do have a relatively easy work around (as outlined in this email)
but it sure would be nice if it were fixed.

I'm guessing that it never will be fixed as that would require putting
some limits on Javascript - - - and why would anyone want that - -
- - - right.

Thank you to monsieur Ludovic Bellière and this community for
their assistance.

Keep on keeping on!
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Re: [DNG] Init respawns - was: Be prepared for the fall of systemd

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:37 AM Steve Litt  wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2022-08-04 at 17:36 -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 04, 2022 at 04:06:18AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > ...
> > >
> > > When I write Free Software, I'm one of those "meh, good enough" guys, 
> > > although
> > > I'd
> > > phrase it "Awww Riiight, good enough!". The reason is that perfectionists 
> > > never
> > > finish.
> >
> > Might this be why we're using linux instead of Hurd?
>
> I never thought of it, but it's a possible cause of Hurd never taking the 
> lead.
>
> One of the very smart things Linus did was to forego the pie-in-the-sky dream 
> of the
> theorists, the microkernel, to do the kernel he could actually get done all by
> himself, the regular kernel.
>
> I'm reminded of Perl6, which in 1999 we all knew was going to take over the 
> world.
> Heck, Sams Publishing offered to have me be the main author of an upcoming 
> Perl6
> Unleashed. But instead of just fixing a few of Perl 5's biggest problem, they 
> shot
> for the moon, during which time Python and Ruby gladly claimed all of Perl's
> mindshare. Today Perl 6 is a language called Raku, and for all I know it's a 
> great
> language, but in the persuit of the perfect at the turn of the century they 
> gave up
> the good, and now Raku is a minor league player.

There is an update to perl5.xx being worked on IIRC.
>
> When I started the VimOutliner project, instead of writing it from scratch, I 
> used
> Vim as the engine and just added a few scripts. So I was able to create and 
> release
> it in about a week.
>
> Examples abound: Eric Raymond's fetchmail. Runit, which is so simple I could
> maintain it if I had to. The various NetworkManager alternatives that have 
> sprung up
> at Devuan.
>
> Perfectionists never finish, and the perfect is the enemy of the good.
>

My motto has been - - - I'll aim for perfection but I will settle for
excellence.

Insisting on perfection is like statistically asking for 100% or 0% results -
- - - impossible and (I'll let you insert your favorite adjective).

Regards
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Re: [DNG] article about devuan

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 7:29 AM Peter Duffy  wrote:
>
> On Sat, 2022-07-30 at 06:07 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Fri, 2022-07-29 at 14:27 +0200, tito via Dng wrote:
> > > https://linuxiac.com/best-systemd-free-linux-distributions/
> > >
> > > I think the author knows nothing about devuan and spreads FUD
> > >
> >
> > I thought most of the Devuan review was accurate and complimentary.
> > However, I've
> > never thought of Devuan as "retro" or particularly inconvenient for
> > newbies.
> >
> > SteveT
>
> Very strange article. On one hand, he does include devuan in his "five
> best proven . . . ". On the other - some of his comments are just
> baffling.
>
> "many of the useful graphical tools that modern Linux users are used to
> are absent." Eh? I wonder if the author isn't aware of the fact that
> there's a range of different window managers and front-ends, each with
> a different look-and-feel, and that all of them are available in all
> distros. The author describes himself as a "linux professional", so he
> should be aware of it.
>
> "To use and understand Devuan, you must change your mindset and
> perception of the distribution’s core beliefs". That's just bizarre. Is
> he talking about the "core beliefs" of debian, or of linux in general?
> Either way - devuan reinstates and re-emphasises the "core beliefs".
>
> "However, as is fortunately always the case in open source software,
> users always have a choice." Except that in the case of systemd-based
> distros, it's Hobson's choice: use any init system you want, provided
> it's systemd. If the author had ever become aware of this, he's looking
> the other way now.
>
> Is it worth while considering putting a link to the article on
> devuan.org, together with a response answering the criticisms in
> detail?
>
Good idea.

Maybe even try to post such where he posted his 'opinion'.

Regards
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Re: [DNG] article about devuan

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 7:26 AM Fernando M. Maresca via Dng
 wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 01:14:10PM +0200, tito via Dng wrote:
> > On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 06:07:53 -0400
> > Steve Litt  wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 2022-07-29 at 14:27 +0200, tito via Dng wrote:
> > > > https://linuxiac.com/best-systemd-free-linux-distributions/
> > > >
> > > > I think the author knows nothing about devuan and spreads FUD
> > > >
> > >
> > > I thought most of the Devuan review was accurate and complimentary. 
> > > However, I've
> > > never thought of Devuan as "retro" or particularly inconvenient for 
> > > newbies.
> > >
> > > SteveT
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > FUD:"And now we come to the last Linux distro on our list, where things get 
> > extreme.
> >  This is because we’re not just discussing another systemd-free Linux 
> > distribution,
> >  but one on a mission against systemd. But first, let me explain what this 
> > is all about."
> > ...
>
>
> +1
>
> I, however, really don't know if the author is malicious or simply ignorant;
> these days there's a hord of people that think Debian's difficult. I
> don't know why.
>

My guess regarding why people find Debian difficult is that its still not a
'pure' gui solution. In other words everything is measured against M$ Win
where almost everything done by joe average user is gui. I haven't been in
the Mac world for over 20 years and it was that way there then - - - dunno
about today.
The author is one who bemoans the loss of his beloved windows even as
her runs a linux distro - - - that would be my understanding. Likely he
switched to a linux distro to keep up with what he perceived as the 'cool
guys' not for any other real reason.

Dunno as to the real reason but I've given up on trying to get others to
switch from M$ Win  - - - - the argument always gets to 'the majority
of users just can't be wrong' to which there is no real effective counter.

Regards
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Re: [DNG] Question re: screen blanking and shutoff

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 9:41 AM o1bigtenor  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 9:21 AM Ludovic Bellière via Dng
>  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 29 Jul 2022, o1bigtenor wrote:
> >
> > >On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 8:23 PM Ludovic Bellière via Dng
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> You need to understand how your Desktop environment is being 
> > >> initialized. It is
> > >> started by the Display Manager, thus inherit whatever environment 
> > >> variable is
> > >> sourced by the DM. To have the DM be aware of custom variables, it needs 
> > >> to
> > >> source that information from a file from your home directory. The file 
> > >> itself
> > >> depends on the DM and/or DE, on how it's been written, because this 
> > >> hasn't been
> > >> standardized.
> > >>
> > >> At the core, all they are doing is starting a Xorg session. Which means 
> > >> that
> > >> /etc/X11/Xsession is being involved. I remember having to change 
> > >> something in
> > >> order to make xfce aware of additional PATH entries, but I since then 
> > >> changed my
> > >> DE to KDE. I can't remember the steps I had to take. It probably has to 
> > >> do with
> > >> a file present in /etc/xdg/xfce4
> > >>
> > >> You could try your luck with ~/.xsessionrc though.
> > >>
> > >No ~/.xsessionrc present.
> >
> > https://wiki.debian.org/Xsession#User_configuration
> >
> > >
> > >Did find the following in the update log - - - seems like systemd is
> > >working on sneaking
> > >in the back door even if the front door is bolted shut! (in the
> > >Debian/xscreensaver files.)
> > >
> > > - X11: `xscreensaver-systemd' now detects when a video player has
> > >  inhibited screen blanking and then exits without uninhibiting.
> > >
> >
> > IIRC, It's a dbus component to xscreensaver because it can't talk to 
> > systemd,
> > otherwise. It's not systemd itself though.
> >
> Just looks like systemd trying to sneak in the back door by making itself
> totally ubiquitous - - - to a not totally knowledgeable person - - - me.
>
> > >I'm finding things are goofy though - - - I made my xrnadr settings
> > >permanent by
> > >writing the commands to a file and saving it (trying to remember where
> > >1 -0 - - argh!)
> > >and found that I needed to modify that placement.
> > >Changed the file but I still need to change the setup using xrandr
> > >after every restart.
> > >The bulk of things is correct but it would be nice if it all were.
> > >
> > >This issue is frustrating.
> > >I do a reboot and take that 1/2 hour to set everything up the way I want. 
> > >Then
> > >the screensaver works for 4 days - - - then it quits - - - like every
> > >stinking time!
> >
> > Restart it. Kill the processes and restart them.
>
> I'll try that.
> That should be easier than the rebooting.
>

OK - - - did just that.
Did a killall for all three browsers and yippee yippee kiyay - - - -
we now have
the screensaver working.

Thank you - - - - but

its a temporary fix - - - I would very much like to get to what is slipping so
that the screensaver no longer functions.

I've been thinking all along that the issue is buried deep in the guts of
our (imo!!) most flabbily coded programs run by most everyone every
stinking day - - - - our browsers.

Does anyone out there in Devuan land  that has any ideas as to where
to look to curtail this unwanted behavior in browsers?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Question re: screen blanking and shutoff

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 9:21 AM Ludovic Bellière via Dng
 wrote:
>
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2022, o1bigtenor wrote:
>
> >On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 8:23 PM Ludovic Bellière via Dng
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> You need to understand how your Desktop environment is being initialized. 
> >> It is
> >> started by the Display Manager, thus inherit whatever environment variable 
> >> is
> >> sourced by the DM. To have the DM be aware of custom variables, it needs to
> >> source that information from a file from your home directory. The file 
> >> itself
> >> depends on the DM and/or DE, on how it's been written, because this hasn't 
> >> been
> >> standardized.
> >>
> >> At the core, all they are doing is starting a Xorg session. Which means 
> >> that
> >> /etc/X11/Xsession is being involved. I remember having to change something 
> >> in
> >> order to make xfce aware of additional PATH entries, but I since then 
> >> changed my
> >> DE to KDE. I can't remember the steps I had to take. It probably has to do 
> >> with
> >> a file present in /etc/xdg/xfce4
> >>
> >> You could try your luck with ~/.xsessionrc though.
> >>
> >No ~/.xsessionrc present.
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/Xsession#User_configuration
>
> >
> >Did find the following in the update log - - - seems like systemd is
> >working on sneaking
> >in the back door even if the front door is bolted shut! (in the
> >Debian/xscreensaver files.)
> >
> > - X11: `xscreensaver-systemd' now detects when a video player has
> >  inhibited screen blanking and then exits without uninhibiting.
> >
>
> IIRC, It's a dbus component to xscreensaver because it can't talk to systemd,
> otherwise. It's not systemd itself though.
>
Just looks like systemd trying to sneak in the back door by making itself
totally ubiquitous - - - to a not totally knowledgeable person - - - me.

> >I'm finding things are goofy though - - - I made my xrnadr settings
> >permanent by
> >writing the commands to a file and saving it (trying to remember where
> >1 -0 - - argh!)
> >and found that I needed to modify that placement.
> >Changed the file but I still need to change the setup using xrandr
> >after every restart.
> >The bulk of things is correct but it would be nice if it all were.
> >
> >This issue is frustrating.
> >I do a reboot and take that 1/2 hour to set everything up the way I want. 
> >Then
> >the screensaver works for 4 days - - - then it quits - - - like every
> >stinking time!
>
> Restart it. Kill the processes and restart them.

I'll try that.
That should be easier than the rebooting.

Thanks for the continuing ideas.

Regards
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Re: [DNG] Question re: screen blanking and shutoff

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 8:23 PM Ludovic Bellière via Dng
 wrote:
>
> You need to understand how your Desktop environment is being initialized. It 
> is
> started by the Display Manager, thus inherit whatever environment variable is
> sourced by the DM. To have the DM be aware of custom variables, it needs to
> source that information from a file from your home directory. The file itself
> depends on the DM and/or DE, on how it's been written, because this hasn't 
> been
> standardized.
>
> At the core, all they are doing is starting a Xorg session. Which means that
> /etc/X11/Xsession is being involved. I remember having to change something in
> order to make xfce aware of additional PATH entries, but I since then changed 
> my
> DE to KDE. I can't remember the steps I had to take. It probably has to do 
> with
> a file present in /etc/xdg/xfce4
>
> You could try your luck with ~/.xsessionrc though.
>
No ~/.xsessionrc present.

Did find the following in the update log - - - seems like systemd is
working on sneaking
in the back door even if the front door is bolted shut! (in the
Debian/xscreensaver files.)

 - X11: `xscreensaver-systemd' now detects when a video player has
  inhibited screen blanking and then exits without uninhibiting.

I'm finding things are goofy though - - - I made my xrnadr settings
permanent by
writing the commands to a file and saving it (trying to remember where
1 -0 - - argh!)
and found that I needed to modify that placement.
Changed the file but I still need to change the setup using xrandr
after every restart.
The bulk of things is correct but it would be nice if it all were.

This issue is frustrating.
I do a reboot and take that 1/2 hour to set everything up the way I want. Then
the screensaver works for 4 days - - - then it quits - - - like every
stinking time!
Sorry people but this aspect of technology is part of my - - - -can't
stand - - -
so I have a lot of sympathy for those who just throw up their hands and just
conform to the majority case - - - - do little and just play with the
toys. I am still
fighting that though.

Regards
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Re: [DNG] Question re: screen blanking and shutoff

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 8:44 AM Ludovic Bellière
 wrote:
>
> That would be an environment variable. It has to be written into a file 
> sourced
> by your DM, each has their own standard. For KDE/sddm, you can look into
> /etc/sddm/Xsession to see which file correspond to your system (it's different
> whether you use bash or zsh or whatever else).
>
Hm - - - - did some snooping around in /etc/ . . .   where I see that lxdm is
the default-display-manager yet when I'm looking in the lxqt session settings
there I'm told that xfwm4 is my window manager.
(This doesn't help me figuring out what's wrong - - - that's for sure.)

Dunno what having these two things different does.

I can't find a neat place where anything is said about xscreensaver
and that it
run like this and do this (except in the xscreensaver setup dialog boxes).

I'm thinking this is somehow browser related but I can't find anywhere to
kick the browsers in their collective pants (don't care if I perhaps
break their
necks in the process either) so that the screensaver can shut of the screens.

Appreciate the ideas and am chasing any one of them as far as I can - - grin!

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Question re: screen blanking and shutoff

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 7:33 AM onefang  wrote:
>
> On 2022-07-28 07:24:46, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 3:53 AM onefang  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On 2022-07-27 21:24:42, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 6:26 PM onefang  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2022-07-27 18:04:26, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > > > > > Greetings
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Running a AMD 3800X with a Radeon RX570X graphics card using
> > > > > > opensource amdgpu drivers (version compiled for 1.21.1.3, module
> > > > > > version = 22.0.0, Module class: X.Org Video Driver, ABI class: X.Org
> > > > > > Video Driver, version 25.2) running xorg-server 2:21.1.3-2+b1.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think my system is reasonably upto date running Daedalus. (Last 
> > > > > > apt
> > > > > > update check done this morning.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The issue - - -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After a system reboot the screens will enter screensaver pretty
> > > > > > picture mode and then blank to off at the chosen times. I've got 5
> > > > > > monitors set up to display most of a 7680x3000 virtual desktop.
> > > > > > Also run a lot of desktops and tend to accumulate a lot of tabs in 
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > browsers. Run at least 3 browsers at once (Opera, Brave and Firefox)
> > > > > > with Firefox as the default and have in the past also run Vivaldi.
> > > > > > Firefox is the default browser.
> > > > > > Firefox is the only browser that will place its windows where I had
> > > > > > them on the various desktops. Finding this I have reduced every 
> > > > > > other
> > > > > > browser to windows on at most one 'desktop'. That is the only way 
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > I can get any time at all where the screensaver just does its job.
> > > > > > The problem is that after about 80 hours (or so - - - - haven't
> > > > > > defined that time with any precision) the screensaver will move to 
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > pretty pics screens but does NOT move to screen off.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been trying to find what in either the browsers is hindering
> > > > > > the screen 'blanking' (if I'm using the correct term) or is breaking
> > > > > > on my system - - - dunno. Have been looking at xset as well but 
> > > > > > really
> > > > > > don't know what the bleeping blazes I'm doing and don't want to 
> > > > > > create
> > > > > > an even bigger mess!
> > > > > > I am using lxqt still on version 0.16.0 trying to wait patiently for
> > > > > > version 1.01 which is supposedly going to move from experimental to
> > > > > > unstable and testing hopefully very soon but that timing is NOT up 
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there someone out there in Devuan land who has any idea of how to
> > > > > > change this annoying behavior?
> > > > > > Can I change something in Xset to make this happen?
> > > > > > Something else?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (I can reboot and set up things the way I want (takes about 1/2 hour
> > > > > > in total to do everything) so I find that this time every 4 days is 
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > nuisance. )
> > > > >
> > > > > That sort of thing was driving me crazy for ages, screensaver would 
> > > > > blank
> > > > > the screen, but not turn the monitors off.  I finally tracked it down.
> > > > > In my case it was running SDL based programs, the fix is -
> > > > >
> > > > > export SDL_VIDEO_ALLOW_SCREENSAVER=1
> > > > >
> > > > > That may or may not be your problem though.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Hmmm - - - - will dig into that but I don't run any steam connected
> > > > items - - - at least AFAIK but - - - thanks!
> > >
> > > SDL is a popular graphics layer, nothing to do with steam.  Though
> > > perhaps steam and lots of games use it.  Some video players use it, lots
> > > of games use it, in my case it was a 3D virtual world client that I leave
> > > runnig all day, coz I run virtual worlds.  So non games use it to.
> > >
> >
> > Have used the command both as user and as root and there is no
> > perceivable change. Maybe a system reboot is also needed?
>
> Do it before running any SDL programs, so that they can see that
> environment variable when they run.  But if you don't know which are SDL
> programs, then setting it system wide might help.
>

H - - - -setting it system wide - - - - would that not be running as
root the command export SDL_VIDEOALLOW_SCREENSAVER=1 ?

Is that only invoked with a system restart?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Question re: screen blanking and shutoff

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 3:53 AM onefang  wrote:
>
> On 2022-07-27 21:24:42, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 6:26 PM onefang  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On 2022-07-27 18:04:26, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > > > Greetings
> > > >
> > > > Running a AMD 3800X with a Radeon RX570X graphics card using
> > > > opensource amdgpu drivers (version compiled for 1.21.1.3, module
> > > > version = 22.0.0, Module class: X.Org Video Driver, ABI class: X.Org
> > > > Video Driver, version 25.2) running xorg-server 2:21.1.3-2+b1.
> > > >
> > > > I think my system is reasonably upto date running Daedalus. (Last apt
> > > > update check done this morning.)
> > > >
> > > > The issue - - -
> > > >
> > > > After a system reboot the screens will enter screensaver pretty
> > > > picture mode and then blank to off at the chosen times. I've got 5
> > > > monitors set up to display most of a 7680x3000 virtual desktop.
> > > > Also run a lot of desktops and tend to accumulate a lot of tabs in my
> > > > browsers. Run at least 3 browsers at once (Opera, Brave and Firefox)
> > > > with Firefox as the default and have in the past also run Vivaldi.
> > > > Firefox is the default browser.
> > > > Firefox is the only browser that will place its windows where I had
> > > > them on the various desktops. Finding this I have reduced every other
> > > > browser to windows on at most one 'desktop'. That is the only way that
> > > > I can get any time at all where the screensaver just does its job.
> > > > The problem is that after about 80 hours (or so - - - - haven't
> > > > defined that time with any precision) the screensaver will move to the
> > > > pretty pics screens but does NOT move to screen off.
> > > >
> > > > I have been trying to find what in either the browsers is hindering
> > > > the screen 'blanking' (if I'm using the correct term) or is breaking
> > > > on my system - - - dunno. Have been looking at xset as well but really
> > > > don't know what the bleeping blazes I'm doing and don't want to create
> > > > an even bigger mess!
> > > > I am using lxqt still on version 0.16.0 trying to wait patiently for
> > > > version 1.01 which is supposedly going to move from experimental to
> > > > unstable and testing hopefully very soon but that timing is NOT up to
> > > > me.
> > > >
> > > > Is there someone out there in Devuan land who has any idea of how to
> > > > change this annoying behavior?
> > > > Can I change something in Xset to make this happen?
> > > > Something else?
> > > >
> > > > (I can reboot and set up things the way I want (takes about 1/2 hour
> > > > in total to do everything) so I find that this time every 4 days is a
> > > > nuisance. )
> > >
> > > That sort of thing was driving me crazy for ages, screensaver would blank
> > > the screen, but not turn the monitors off.  I finally tracked it down.
> > > In my case it was running SDL based programs, the fix is -
> > >
> > > export SDL_VIDEO_ALLOW_SCREENSAVER=1
> > >
> > > That may or may not be your problem though.
> > >
> > >
> > Hmmm - - - - will dig into that but I don't run any steam connected
> > items - - - at least AFAIK but - - - thanks!
>
> SDL is a popular graphics layer, nothing to do with steam.  Though
> perhaps steam and lots of games use it.  Some video players use it, lots
> of games use it, in my case it was a 3D virtual world client that I leave
> runnig all day, coz I run virtual worlds.  So non games use it to.
>

Have used the command both as user and as root and there is no
perceivable change. Maybe a system reboot is also needed?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Question re: screen blanking and shutoff

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 6:26 PM onefang  wrote:
>
> On 2022-07-27 18:04:26, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > Greetings
> >
> > Running a AMD 3800X with a Radeon RX570X graphics card using
> > opensource amdgpu drivers (version compiled for 1.21.1.3, module
> > version = 22.0.0, Module class: X.Org Video Driver, ABI class: X.Org
> > Video Driver, version 25.2) running xorg-server 2:21.1.3-2+b1.
> >
> > I think my system is reasonably upto date running Daedalus. (Last apt
> > update check done this morning.)
> >
> > The issue - - -
> >
> > After a system reboot the screens will enter screensaver pretty
> > picture mode and then blank to off at the chosen times. I've got 5
> > monitors set up to display most of a 7680x3000 virtual desktop.
> > Also run a lot of desktops and tend to accumulate a lot of tabs in my
> > browsers. Run at least 3 browsers at once (Opera, Brave and Firefox)
> > with Firefox as the default and have in the past also run Vivaldi.
> > Firefox is the default browser.
> > Firefox is the only browser that will place its windows where I had
> > them on the various desktops. Finding this I have reduced every other
> > browser to windows on at most one 'desktop'. That is the only way that
> > I can get any time at all where the screensaver just does its job.
> > The problem is that after about 80 hours (or so - - - - haven't
> > defined that time with any precision) the screensaver will move to the
> > pretty pics screens but does NOT move to screen off.
> >
> > I have been trying to find what in either the browsers is hindering
> > the screen 'blanking' (if I'm using the correct term) or is breaking
> > on my system - - - dunno. Have been looking at xset as well but really
> > don't know what the bleeping blazes I'm doing and don't want to create
> > an even bigger mess!
> > I am using lxqt still on version 0.16.0 trying to wait patiently for
> > version 1.01 which is supposedly going to move from experimental to
> > unstable and testing hopefully very soon but that timing is NOT up to
> > me.
> >
> > Is there someone out there in Devuan land who has any idea of how to
> > change this annoying behavior?
> > Can I change something in Xset to make this happen?
> > Something else?
> >
> > (I can reboot and set up things the way I want (takes about 1/2 hour
> > in total to do everything) so I find that this time every 4 days is a
> > nuisance. )
>
> That sort of thing was driving me crazy for ages, screensaver would blank
> the screen, but not turn the monitors off.  I finally tracked it down.
> In my case it was running SDL based programs, the fix is -
>
> export SDL_VIDEO_ALLOW_SCREENSAVER=1
>
> That may or may not be your problem though.
>
>
Hmmm - - - - will dig into that but I don't run any steam connected
items - - - at least AFAIK but - - - thanks!

Reassuring to know that I'm not the only one with a similar problem!!!

Regards
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[DNG] Question re: screen blanking and shutoff

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Running a AMD 3800X with a Radeon RX570X graphics card using
opensource amdgpu drivers (version compiled for 1.21.1.3, module
version = 22.0.0, Module class: X.Org Video Driver, ABI class: X.Org
Video Driver, version 25.2) running xorg-server 2:21.1.3-2+b1.

I think my system is reasonably upto date running Daedalus. (Last apt
update check done this morning.)

The issue - - -

After a system reboot the screens will enter screensaver pretty
picture mode and then blank to off at the chosen times. I've got 5
monitors set up to display most of a 7680x3000 virtual desktop.
Also run a lot of desktops and tend to accumulate a lot of tabs in my
browsers. Run at least 3 browsers at once (Opera, Brave and Firefox)
with Firefox as the default and have in the past also run Vivaldi.
Firefox is the default browser.
Firefox is the only browser that will place its windows where I had
them on the various desktops. Finding this I have reduced every other
browser to windows on at most one 'desktop'. That is the only way that
I can get any time at all where the screensaver just does its job.
The problem is that after about 80 hours (or so - - - - haven't
defined that time with any precision) the screensaver will move to the
pretty pics screens but does NOT move to screen off.

I have been trying to find what in either the browsers is hindering
the screen 'blanking' (if I'm using the correct term) or is breaking
on my system - - - dunno. Have been looking at xset as well but really
don't know what the bleeping blazes I'm doing and don't want to create
an even bigger mess!
I am using lxqt still on version 0.16.0 trying to wait patiently for
version 1.01 which is supposedly going to move from experimental to
unstable and testing hopefully very soon but that timing is NOT up to
me.

Is there someone out there in Devuan land who has any idea of how to
change this annoying behavior?
Can I change something in Xset to make this happen?
Something else?

(I can reboot and set up things the way I want (takes about 1/2 hour
in total to do everything) so I find that this time every 4 days is a
nuisance. )

TIA
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Re: [DNG] UEFI, software RAID1, LVM and encryption

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 6:24 AM Olaf Meeuwissen
 wrote:
>
> Hi o1bigtenor,
>
> o1bigtenor writes:
>
> > On Sat, Jul 23, 2022 at 10:19 PM Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi list,
> >>
> >> I lost the single SSD on my mini PC and am in the process of rethinking
> >> its storage.  So far, I've got myself two brand new and identical PCIe
> >> NVMe SSDs (256GB) for use in a software RAID1 setup.  I think I need to
> >> enable UEFI to get access to the BIOS from the GRUB menu.
> >>
> >> I want my /home directory on a partition of its own, at a minimum, and
> >> encrypt it.  I don't see a need to encrypt much else as I am not after
> >> plausible deniability.  It's mostly to be able to return a broken disk
> >> for a replacement and still sleep in relative peace of mind ;-)
> >>
> >> I haven't quite made up my mind as to a need for other partitions.  I
> >> use containers and VMs quite a bit.  Perhaps these are better stored
> >> some place other than the partitions for / or (an encrypted) /home.
> >>
> >> With 64GB of RAM, I don't see much need for swap.  If needed, I could
> >> always add a swapfile instead of a partition.
> >>
> >> Given the above,
> >>
> >>  - what are your expert(?) opinions on partitioning for this?
> >
> > Well - - - expert - - - lol - - maybe in my mind but not really even
> > there - - -grin
> > but I've just done something like this!
> >
> >>  - how do I make (and keep) both disks bootable?
> >
> > I used the partitions
> > 1. small (4M) empty in between each partition
> > 2. ESP on each disk (partiion #1)
> > 3. see #1
> > 4. partition on each disk
> > rolled each partition into a raid 1 array.
> > 5. see #1
> > 6. see #4
> > 7. repeat until complete
>
> I don't really understand why you used the "small" unused partitions in
> between.  Some kind of buffer to prevent "out-of-range" writes?

I first used gpt to partition a uefi setup some over 10 years ago.
At that time there was a recommendation of (IIRC) 2 MB spaces between
the partitions. Seemed to work and I moved to 4 MB as that is the (again
IIRC) block size on the items. So I have an empty block between every
partition. Given that I don't use anything smaller than 1 TB losing even
20 blocks of space imo is minimal. (Again) IIRC the idea was that if one
needed to rescue the partition have the empty space on either side was
to make things go better - - - dunno as to the legitimacy of such but
until its thoroughly debunked for me - - - I'll likely continue. (I
run a raid-10
array for my main storage (/home is more short term although I need to
do some serious cleanup) as I was serious security and like the speed
compared to raid-6 anyway. If I had need for a lot more space (would be
a lot more $$$) I think I would go to raid-60 for my main storage anyway.
>
> >>  - can I put the ESP on RAID1?
> >
> > I couldn't find a practical way to do this.
> > Read of some who built their system on disc 1 and then
> > copied everything to disc 2 then did some kind of interesting and, for me
> > anyway, confusing manipulations and then they had a raid-1 array where
> > one array had everything.
>
> I came across
>
>   https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/EFI_system_partition#ESP_on_software_RAID1
>   https://outflux.net/blog/archives/2018/04/19/uefi-booting-and-raid1/
>
> which indicate it is possible but not without taking some extra care.
>
> >>- if not, how do I keep the copies in sync?
> >
> > Using the copy and then manipulate to make raid1 then supposedly does
> > that but I didn't do that so - - - dunno.
> >
> >>  - do I need a separate partition for /boot?
> >
> > I gave it one.
>
> In other follow up, Antony Stone and I concluded that it would not be
> needed for my needs.  In that case, I prefer to go without and keep it
> simple.
>
> >>- if so, can it be put on RAID1?
> >
> > My stuff has a raid1 array for every partition except ESP.
>
> I think that's what I'll end up using too.

IMO its not elegant to need to use a raid partition for each of my
partitions. I would think I could specify raid-1 for my partitions and
there would be one raid device instead of my bulging portemanteau
of them! But - - - I think I'm a fringe thinker for raid use. The linux
raid list denizens have at least indicated such. They see little need
for more than raid-5. Maybe I've been a business owner too long and
really really hated the last time I had to redo a years worth of data
for my business (recordkeeping) but once is enough!

>
> >>  - if not, how do I keep the copies in sync?
> >>  - should I use LVM?
> >
> > Me - - - maybe I'm just deficient but I didn't want to deal with one more
> > possible point of failure so I did NOT use LVM. (I tend to not only like
> > but practice the K.I.S.S. principle.) Maybe I should have but don't see the
> > value in adding complexity.
>
> Hmm, if I were to practice KISS (and I usually do), I'd leave out the
> unused partitions and keep /boot as part of the partition mounted on /
> :-P
>
> The 

[DNG] Further question on graphics drivers

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Have completed an install onto a AMD Ryzen 7 5800X  and am
running a Radeon 570x graphics card.


Driver comes up as amdgpu .

https://amdgpu-install.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install-prereq.html

If I followed the above url;'s destructions it is possible to add
further 'enhancements'
like opencl, opengl, vulkan and maybe more.
This is now called 'workstation' where before it was 'pro'.

Opencl I think is used in CAD programs (FreeCAD and libreCAD here) so
1. install the further options

or

do not install the further options

Please (advice is requested)

TIA
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Re: [DNG] moving to a new system

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 8:39 AM Adrian Zaugg  wrote:
>
> In der Nachricht vom Saturday, 25 June 2022 15:32:21 CEST schrieb Marjorie
> Roome via Dng:
>
> > (1) Replicate your existing system on the new hardware, maybe with a
> > different disk/partition structure from what you have now. And then
> > upgrade to Devuan.
>
> This is the easiest method mentioned, because you keep all your installed
> programs, special settings and all your modifications. More detailed, but
> certainly not complete:
>

Well - - - - reporting time.

I might have used this method but my move was already happening when
this suggestion appeared.

Setup new system (partitioning) to newer ideas.
Installed devuan daedalus (testing).
Once system was working I then copied /home from the previous system
using # rsnyc -avxrKSH user@oldsystem(192.168.x.x):/home/ /home/
that only took some 6ish hours.
Next step was to backup my raid-10 array to a new 2 TB HDD, which will
be pulled from the new system and only used for this purpose.
So - - - back to waiting for a PCIe card for more SATA spots, and the
cabling for such. (Mobo seemed to have lots of ports at 8 but I've got
5 used before the raid array or the previous system disc so more ports
are needed.)

I will have to look into rsync some more - - - - seems like a useful tool
- - - thanks to those that suggested its use.

Thanks to one and all that gave input.

Kudus!!! (Finding this to be a very responsive group Thanks!!)

Aj
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Re: [DNG] moving to a new system

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 10:19 AM Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng
 wrote:
>
> Anno domini 2022 Fri, 24 Jun 09:05:39 -0500
>  o1bigtenor via Dng scripsit:
> > Greetings
> >
> > Hoping that I'm not asking too many questions.
> >
> > (moving from debian testing to devuan testing (daedalus)
> > the old system is under 5.17.xx and the new one is on 5.18
> > if that makes for differences)
> >
> > (I've learnt the hard way that just winging things means a LOT more
> > work and even a greater chance for issues.)
> >
> > My existing system has been a work in progress for over 10 years. So
> > I've gotten things
> > set up quite the way that I like them so things change slowly but in
> > that there are also
> > less 'terror' moments when everything has gone 'goofy'.
> >
> > Is there any way to move over things like settings (and all the other
> > pamphernania) for browsers and libreoffice and the like?
> >
> > I was thinking of doing things by using scp from the old system to the new 
> > one.
> >
> > Dunno if that would create issues or not.
> >
> > Any better ideas - - - - well I'm all ears!!!
>
> Move your home directory to the new system ... and use rsync, not scp.
>

That seems simple - - - - except I've never used rsync yet.

Suggestions for a good recipe to follow- - - please?

TIA
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[DNG] moving to a new system

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Hoping that I'm not asking too many questions.

(moving from debian testing to devuan testing (daedalus)
the old system is under 5.17.xx and the new one is on 5.18
if that makes for differences)

(I've learnt the hard way that just winging things means a LOT more
work and even a greater chance for issues.)

My existing system has been a work in progress for over 10 years. So
I've gotten things
set up quite the way that I like them so things change slowly but in
that there are also
less 'terror' moments when everything has gone 'goofy'.

Is there any way to move over things like settings (and all the other
pamphernania) for browsers and libreoffice and the like?

I was thinking of doing things by using scp from the old system to the new one.

Dunno if that would create issues or not.

Any better ideas - - - - well I'm all ears!!!
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[DNG] new system + graphics

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Managed to get the new system running - - - yee haw!!!
Now trying to get everything set up - - - lots of software to install
- - - working on things.

How do I get the open source drivers for my RX570 gpu installed AND working?

lsmod says that I have amdgpu running - - - multiple instances.
I can't figure out how to change my monitor settings from some 1080 x
768 to the actual resolution of 3840x2160.
This graphics stuff has always seemed to be linux's achilles heel!!

TIA for any assistance

(Please mr Steve- - - !)
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Re: [DNG] install on a raid 1 array

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Jun 4, 2022 at 3:03 PM Simon  wrote:
>
> o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
>
> > I have not ever installed like this so first the configuration.
> >
> > Ryzen 7 3800X
> > Asus TUF Gaming X570-Pro   mobo
> > 64 GB ram
> > 2 - 1 TB M2 drives
> > 2 - 1 TB SSDs
> >
> > I want to set the system up so that the drives are 2 sets of Raid-1 with
> > (proposed)
> > set 1
> > /efi, /boot, /, /usr, /usr/local, /var, swap
> > set 2
> > /home
> >
> > How do I set up the raid arrays?
> > Are they set up first and then the system is installed?
> > Or do I set up what I want on one of each of the sets and the copy
> > that setup to the second (of the set) and make it raid after system
> > install?
> >
> > I can't seem to find anything done within the last 2 years talking about 
> > this.
> > Don't see where it should be difficult but then - - - well I've
> > thought that before() and had a boat load of male bovine excrement
> > to wade through!
> > (So I'm asking before doing to forestall issues - - - I hope!)
>
> Others have given good information. Unless things have changed since I last 
> did an install (couple of years I think), you can just go into manual disk 
> partitioning and do it from there. Unfortunately, to do an optimum install 
> means getting the calculator out as the defaults are sub-optimal …
>
> AFAIK, all disks these days are 4k sectors, or for SSD, probably bigger. 
> Ideally you want your partitions aligned to these boundaries. So for example, 
> leave sectors (unix 512 byte sectors) 0-63 unused, and start your first 
> partition at sector 64. If you know that your SSD uses (say) 64k blocks 
> internally, then leave sectors 0-127 unused and start the first partition at 
> sector 128. From memory the partitioning tool in the installer doesn’t do 
> this alignment unless you manually calculate all your partition start & end 
> blocks.
> Everything will work fine if things are not aligned, but performance will be 
> sub-optimal in some situations.


OK - - - finally have a working system - - - -lots of joys - - - first
a dead psu then
a cabling issue (the usb3.0 front panel connector on the mobo has a specific
installation orientation) and then the mob said there was room for 8 SATA drives
and 2 M2 drives - - - well when you use the M2 slots you lose a SATA drive for
each - - - lots of joys and time wasted - - - if only these gotchas
were easier to find!!!

Now I come to the install.

First attempt
set up 2 raid 1s
except now I can't partition the drives
second attempt
set up 2 drives with some spacer partitions (4.0 MB each) and some 8 partitions
set up 2 drives with same spacer partitions and a large /home partition
then wanted to make 2 raid arrays
- - - - except I'm only allowed to use 2 partitions  - - - -  one from
each member
   of the array.
   (There was also complaining that there were 2 /root partitions
before I tried to
create the array.)

Neither of these options is what I want.
(This is only some couple hours down the drain - - - argh)

So - - - how do I achieve 2 raid 1 arrays?
#1 has partitions for /efi, /boot, /root/, swap, /tmp, /var, /usr, /usr/local
   with a spacer of 4.0 MB between (and before the first and after each)
#2 has a partition for /home
   with a spacer of 4.0 MB between (and before the first and after)

The destructions that I have been able to find are - - - - well - - - -
they're mostly talking about using LVM - - - - which I have not ever used.

So - - - please - - - - what do I do besides abandon my idea?

(There must be some kind of mystery step someplace - - - and I can't
find it)

TIA
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Re: [DNG] do I need drivers for

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 11:53 PM Tomasz Torcz  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 09:13:35PM -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 5:16 PM tito via Dng  wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 17:10:51 -0500
> > > o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Greetings
> > > >
> > > > Bought a mobo that said that there was room for 8 SATA ports and 2 M2 
> > > > drives.
> > > >
> > > > It took looking in the fine print to find that when using M2 drives
> > > > that one loses an
> > > > SATA port for each M2 drive.
>
>   They may be SATA-only M.2, not NVMe. Read the manual closely.
>
> > > > Have found some PCIe 3.0 cards with 16 SATA port count.
> > > >
> > > > Do I need any kind of special driver to use  this many SATA ports?
> > >
> > > What kind of SATA cards (brand, model, chip)?
> > >
> >
> > SATA PCIe Adapter 16 Port SATA III to PCI Express 3.0 X1 Controller
> > Expansion Card ASM1064 JBM575 Chip
>
>   Best try is always to search for the chip markings. You would find
> this thread:
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-ide/05f0db0a-e961-0f68-4302-68be03459...@opensource.wdc.com/T/
> There's a slight difference (ASM1062 vs ASM1064) but the card should work with
> standard AHCI driver (you may need to add pciids or bind the driver to
> the card).

In inverse order:
This particular chip '1064' is not listed in the pci.id directory
although the company is.
Will that cause problems for my use?
Binding the driver to the card does not look at all straightforward.
If this is something that
I would need to do - - - - would I be able to get assistance (please)?

Reading in ASMedia Technologies web site.
in ascending order:
1061 - - - 2 ports
1062 - - - Gen 2 x 2 (pcie)  - 2 ports
1064 - - - Gen 3 x 1 (pcie) - 4 ports
1164 - - - Gen 3 x 2 (pcie) - 4 ports
1166 - - - Gen 3 x 2 (pcie) - 6 ports

The AHCI driver lists the ASM1062 and also the ASM1062 with the JMB575.
There is no listing for the 1064 or the other two newer chips.
Does this mean that I might have issues using this card?

Greatly appreciating the gentle introduction to the arcane arts of 'under the
hood tinkering' (!!!).

Thank you greatly for your assistance.

Aj

>
>
> --
> Tomasz Torcz   72->|   
> 80->|
> to...@pipebreaker.pl   72->|   
> 80->|
>
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Re: [DNG] do I need drivers for

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 5:16 PM tito via Dng  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 17:10:51 -0500
> o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
>
> > Greetings
> >
> > Bought a mobo that said that there was room for 8 SATA ports and 2 M2 
> > drives.
> >
> > It took looking in the fine print to find that when using M2 drives
> > that one loses an
> > SATA port for each M2 drive.
> >
> > So in a system with 2 M2s and a pair of SSDs for the operating system
> > I've only got space left for 4 SATA drives - - - - and I have 5 that
> > are to be placed in the case after everything is set up.
> >
> > The case has room for some over 20 more drives than I'm starting with
> > so space is NOT an issue.
> >
> > Have found some PCIe 3.0 cards with 16 SATA port count.
> >
> > Do I need any kind of special driver to use  this many SATA ports?
>
> What kind of SATA cards (brand, model, chip)?
>
>

SATA PCIe Adapter 16 Port SATA III to PCI Express 3.0 X1 Controller
Expansion Card ASM1064 JBM575 Chip
from newegg  .ca at under $140 w/o taxes.

There is only some $20 difference or so from some of the 8 port cards
to this one.
There are drivers mentioned for Windows but I can't find anything when
I'm searching
for linux + PCIe + card + SATA controller + drivers + ASM 1064 so
thought I would
tap the community to find answer(s).

TIA
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[DNG] do I need drivers for

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Bought a mobo that said that there was room for 8 SATA ports and 2 M2 drives.

It took looking in the fine print to find that when using M2 drives
that one loses an
SATA port for each M2 drive.

So in a system with 2 M2s and a pair of SSDs for the operating system
I've only got space left for 4 SATA drives - - - - and I have 5 that
are to be placed in the case after everything is set up.

The case has room for some over 20 more drives than I'm starting with
so space is NOT an issue.

Have found some PCIe 3.0 cards with 16 SATA port count.

Do I need any kind of special driver to use  this many SATA ports?

I've tried looking - - - - can't seem to find anything.

Please

TIA
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[DNG] any gotchas in a new install?

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Am having entirely too much fun (doa psu followed by the mobo) but
hoping to be very soon installing Devuan testing (daedalus - - - -
sic!) on a AMD 5800X cpu with a Radeon 570X gpu.

When I've been looking for info there seems to be lots of chatter
about how the Radeon gpus aren't installing or working well on Debian
testing.

Any tips from those that have assembled a system in the last year?

(Its been quite a while since I did a new bare system install so I'll
bet things have changed from then.)

TIA
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Re: [DNG] recommendations for filesystem

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 4:57 PM Rod Rodolico via Dng  wrote:
>
> You did not say what you wanted to do with this. Workstation? Dedicated
> file server? That makes a big difference.

My main machine is sorta weird.
Its a workstation and it supervises servers so its clearly everything
and nothing
at the same time.
At present I've only got one test server (where I'm testing software, processes
and trying things) but likely will be up to at least 4 inside of 6 to 8 months.

Life is interesting.

It would seem that the official skuttlebutt is dependent upon whether one is a
debian family or a redhat family fan. It would be oh so nice if there was just
even a wee bit of 'get along' in the Linux family but the oneupmanship game
is very much alive and well.

Regards
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[DNG] recommendations for filesystem

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Setting up a 'non-simple' system - - -
raid 1 arrays - 2 - - used for the operating system
raid 10 array - 1 - - used for longer term storage

last iteration I used ext4 for system file(s) (/ IIRC) and then btrfs
for most everything else (raid-10 array uses ext4 because that's what
I set it up on and it'll stay that way until the array is replaced - -
I think.)

What is the current recommendation(s) for filesystem with the best
combination of features (they all seem to have some 'issues')?

ext4 or btrfs or even ZFS (understand that one isn't as high on the
recommendation pole - - IIRC)

Please advise


TIA
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Re: [DNG] install on a raid 1 array

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 4:57 PM tito via Dng  wrote:
>
> On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 16:34:21 -0500
> o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
>
> > Greetings
> >
> > When the parts get here I'm going to be installing Devuan testing on
> > the system.
> >
> > I have not ever installed like this so first the configuration.
> >
> > Ryzen 7 3800X
> > Asus TUF Gaming X570-Pro   mobo
> > 64 GB ram
> > 2 - 1 TB M2 drives
> > 2 - 1 TB SSDs
> >
> > I want to set the system up so that the drives are 2 sets of Raid-1 with
> > (proposed)
> > set 1
> > /efi, /boot, /, /usr, /usr/local, /var, swap
> > set 2
> > /home
> >
> > How do I set up the raid arrays?
>
> They could be easily setup during installation process in the disk 
> partitioning step if I recall
> it correctly. See https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/SoftwareRaidRoot
> for more info (just the first part).

Interesting - - - that wiki is current as of 2012.
That's why I wasn't trusting the information - - - - the newest stuff
I could find was
some 3 or 4 years old and I've found that newer stuff has different
gotchas than
the older versions.

The assumption is that LLVM is used on top of the array. (from the wiki)
Is that necessary?
(I've never used LLVM to date!)

My idea was to partition the disks just like normal after the array was built.
Is that possible?

TIA
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[DNG] install on a raid 1 array

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

When the parts get here I'm going to be installing Devuan testing on
the system.

I have not ever installed like this so first the configuration.

Ryzen 7 3800X
Asus TUF Gaming X570-Pro   mobo
64 GB ram
2 - 1 TB M2 drives
2 - 1 TB SSDs

I want to set the system up so that the drives are 2 sets of Raid-1 with
(proposed)
set 1
/efi, /boot, /, /usr, /usr/local, /var, swap
set 2
/home

How do I set up the raid arrays?
Are they set up first and then the system is installed?
Or do I set up what I want on one of each of the sets and the copy
that setup to the second (of the set) and make it raid after system
install?

I can't seem to find anything done within the last 2 years talking about this.
Don't see where it should be difficult but then - - - well I've
thought that before() and had a boat load of male bovine excrement
to wade through!
(So I'm asking before doing to forestall issues - - - I hope!)

TIA
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Re: [DNG] New build + extras

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 10:48 AM Arnt Karlsen  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 31 May 2022 09:18:43 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote in message
> :
>
> > On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 8:46 AM Steve Litt
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > o1bigtenor via Dng said on Mon, 30 May 2022 17:03:56 -0500
> > >
> > > >Greetings
> > > >
> > > >I am investing in a new system.
> > > >(Ryzen 7 5800X + Ryzen 570 gpu)
> > >
> > > You're going to be very, very pleased with your finished product. 16
> > > high speed threads can tame the toughest online video chat or
> > > javascript-encumbered website.
> >
> > I am finding that web browsers are quite greedy when its comes to
> > system resources - - - especially the cpu but so far it seems like the
> > most I'm seeing is maybe 2 cores in use rarely more.
>
> ..starve them!  No web browser deserve more than 2 to 4 cpu threads
> or more than 4GB of ram.  I watch youtube videos on Google's chromium
> web browser at nice -n 17 at 1920x1200@60Hz on my 2 Dell Precision
> M4400 (8GB ram, one has an Intel Core 2 Duo T9600 @ 2.80GHz and the
> other a T9400 @ 2.53GHz cpu, both has NVIDIA's G96GLM [Quadro FX 770M]
> running the nouveau driver.  (I usually prefer youtube at 1280x800,
> less stutter in rain, wireless ISP.)

Like that idea - - - but - - -  how?

(Are there any other ramifications to doing this?)
>
> ..ok, 4K video games etc might need more, just keep them in qemu etc
> vms, no need to let any of that crap crash your hardware.  RT, nice
> etc is there to help you kill the crap you keep in virtual machines.
>
> > Between most software not using more than a few cores and cost
> > was what decided me on this particular proc.
> > None of the more core procs run at 3.8 GHz base (I think there is
> > a bump up available too on the chosen model) so until a lot of
> > programs make use of multi-core I thought it not worth going for
> > more cores.
>
> ..I'd lean towards more cores rather than higher speeds, you can much
> more easily throw things into vms and let them chew thru with a dozen
> cpu treads, with 2, virtualization approaches virtual uselessness. ;o)
>

I got badly burned (imo anyway) digging into containers (LXD) a while ago
now and am quite cured of any curiosity in that regard at present. So
at present
virtualization and I are not really on speaking terms (nevermind actually
running some kind of containerization).

Looking forward to finding out how to starve browsers from devouring
all system resources!!!

TIA
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Re: [DNG] New build + extras

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 8:46 AM Steve Litt  wrote:
>
> o1bigtenor via Dng said on Mon, 30 May 2022 17:03:56 -0500
>
> >Greetings
> >
> >I am investing in a new system.
> >(Ryzen 7 5800X + Ryzen 570 gpu)
>
> You're going to be very, very pleased with your finished product. 16
> high speed threads can tame the toughest online video chat or
> javascript-encumbered website.

I am finding that web browsers are quite greedy when its comes to
system resources - - - especially the cpu but so far it seems like the
most I'm seeing is maybe 2 cores in use rarely more.
Between most software not using more than a few cores and cost
was what decided me on this particular proc.
None of the more core procs run at 3.8 GHz base (I think there is
a bump up available too on the chosen model) so until a lot of
programs make use of multi-core I thought it not worth going for
more cores.

> I have a couple suggestions:
>
> 1) 105 watts is a hot, hot processor. Make sure you have a CPU cooler
>more than capable of cooling it, and make sure that cooler is built
>to work for years, because if it stops working, it could damage your
>CPU. Because the CPU is throwing off so much heat, you'll need extra
>fannage to cool your entire box. If you can fit 200mm fans, those
>are excellent CFM/noise ratio.

CPU cooler is to be a 150 mm Noctua cpu cooler

>
> 2) You've got a spectacular processor, so make sure it's got RAM to
>match. I'd recommend 64GB RAM. You never know what VMs you'll need
>to spin up in the future, or the bloaticity of future software.

I only put in 64 GB (have 64 GB in the old box already) but did it as 2 x 32 so
that I could add more if warranted.
>
> In December 2021 I built a box with AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6-Core 12-thread
> processor, 64GB RAM, a 2TB NVMe for /, and a 14TB 7200 spinning rust
> for mountpoints (I use my computer as a file cabinet, among other
> things). I can't tell you how pleased I am with this setup. Yours is
> going to be even more powerful than mine.
>
Going to use mirrored 1TB M2 drives for system info and another set of
mirrored 1TB SSDs for /home.  Moving the previous raid array over after
up and running.
Hopefully not too much fighting to get the graphics working the way I want.
I've never used the open source Radeon drivers so that could be 'interesting'.

Any suggestions on how to move over all the stored stuff like from
rednotebook, browsers, and the like?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] New build + extras

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 7:12 AM tito via Dng  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 31 May 2022 05:27:37 -0500
> o1bigtenor  wrote:
>
> > On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 1:00 AM tito via Dng  wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, 30 May 2022 17:03:56 -0500
> > > o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Greetings
> > > >
> > > > I am investing in a new system.
> > > > (Ryzen 7 5800X + Ryzen 570 gpu)
> > > >
> > > > The old system has a raid 10 array that I would like to put into the 
> > > > new system.
> > > >
> > > > The new system is going to add 2 M2 drives that I want to set up as 
> > > > raid 1
> > > > and this is for use for /EFI, /boot, /, /var, /usr and swap.
> > > > There are 2 2.5" SDDs that are going to be set up as raid 1 for /home.
> > > > Want to be running Devuan daedalus.
> > > >
> > > > The idea is to transfer the previously used drives from the old system
> > > > into the new system.
> > > >
> > > > The question:
> > > > is it better to load the system and then add the hard drives
> > > >
> > > > or
> > > >
> > > > do I move the drives into the system and then install the system with
> > > > the drives at the same time.
> > > >
> > > > (2 step process or 1 step process.)
> > > Hi,
> > > I've done this before and it could be done in both ways
> > > without problems, but to avoid confusion in the install
> > > and disk format step I nowadays prefer to do it in multiple steps:
> > > 1) install system with only the needed system drives.
> > > 2) when the system is installed and fully setup add the raid arrays one 
> > > by one
> > > 3) assemble the array
> > > 4) modify /etc/fstab, /etcmdadm/mdadm.conf, update-initramfs
> > > 5) add scrubbing to crontab
> > > 6) add the drives to smartd.conf
> > > 7) reboot, check that array is up at boot
> > > 8) go to step 3 for the next array and so on until done.
> > >
> >
> > Thank you for the recommendations!!
> >
> > I'm not sure what # 4 through 6 are doing and how to do them or
> > why to do them.
>
> 4) you should add the newly added arrays to /etc/fstab so that they are 
> mounted at boot, run as root:
>
> blkid /dev/mdX
> /dev/mdX: UUID="-x---" BLOCK_SIZE="4096" 
> TYPE="ext4"
>
> then open /etc/fstab with ab editor of your choice and add the line:
>
> UUID=-x---  
> /dir_where_you_want_it_to_be_mounted   ext4defaults0  
>  2
>
> then to update /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf run as root:
>
> mdadm --examine --scan
>
> and copy any missing ARRAY definitions to /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf
>
> then to update you initramfs with the updated files run as root:
>
> update-initramfs -k all -u
>
> 5) about  drive scrubbing read 
> https://raid.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Scrubbing_the_drives
>   This is done in some longer time intervals automatically by devuan but 
> on systems
> where I care I run scrubbing daily when the system is idle and 
> therefore I add
>   a line to /etc/crontab:
>
> 00 11   * * *   rootecho check >> /sys/block/mdX/md/sync_action
>
> 6) You should install smartmontools to monitor your harddisks's health status
>   see man smartd and man smartd.conf
>
>
Thank you mr Tito!!

Have smartmontools running at present.

Thank you very much for explaining!!

Regards
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Re: [DNG] New build + extras

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 1:00 AM tito via Dng  wrote:
>
> On Mon, 30 May 2022 17:03:56 -0500
> o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
>
> > Greetings
> >
> > I am investing in a new system.
> > (Ryzen 7 5800X + Ryzen 570 gpu)
> >
> > The old system has a raid 10 array that I would like to put into the new 
> > system.
> >
> > The new system is going to add 2 M2 drives that I want to set up as raid 1
> > and this is for use for /EFI, /boot, /, /var, /usr and swap.
> > There are 2 2.5" SDDs that are going to be set up as raid 1 for /home.
> > Want to be running Devuan daedalus.
> >
> > The idea is to transfer the previously used drives from the old system
> > into the new system.
> >
> > The question:
> > is it better to load the system and then add the hard drives
> >
> > or
> >
> > do I move the drives into the system and then install the system with
> > the drives at the same time.
> >
> > (2 step process or 1 step process.)
> Hi,
> I've done this before and it could be done in both ways
> without problems, but to avoid confusion in the install
> and disk format step I nowadays prefer to do it in multiple steps:
> 1) install system with only the needed system drives.
> 2) when the system is installed and fully setup add the raid arrays one by one
> 3) assemble the array
> 4) modify /etc/fstab, /etcmdadm/mdadm.conf, update-initramfs
> 5) add scrubbing to crontab
> 6) add the drives to smartd.conf
> 7) reboot, check that array is up at boot
> 8) go to step 3 for the next array and so on until done.
>

Thank you for the recommendations!!

I'm not sure what # 4 through 6 are doing and how to do them or
why to do them.

Please advise.

TIA
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Re: [DNG] New build + extras

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 3:44 AM Marjorie Roome via Dng
 wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, 2022-05-30 at 17:03 -0500, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > Greetings
> >
> > I am investing in a new system.
> > (Ryzen 7 5800X + Ryzen 570 gpu)
> >
> > The old system has a raid 10 array that I would like to put into the
> > new system.
> >
> > The new system is going to add 2 M2 drives that I want to set up as
> > raid 1
> > and this is for use for /EFI, /boot, /, /var, /usr and swap.
> > There are 2 2.5" SDDs that are going to be set up as raid 1 for
> > /home.
> > Want to be running Devuan daedalus.
> >
> > The idea is to transfer the previously used drives from the old
> > system
> > into the new system.
> >
> > The question:
> > is it better to load the system and then add the hard drives
> >
> > or
> >
> > do I move the drives into the system and then install the system with
> > the drives at the same time.
> >
> > (2 step process or 1 step process.)
> >
>
> I recently updated my CPU to AMD5600G from a 10 year old Phenom II 910
> x4.This required a new AM4 B550 motherboard and DDR4 RAM.
>
> Initially I just installed these in my existing case, connected up the
> old SATA drives (2 x 500 SSD GB RAID1 and 2 x 1TB HDD RAID1+LSB) and it
> booted up fine.
>
> Worth checking that your fstab and grub identifies your drives/RAID by
> UUID or LABEL, rather than /sdX and /MDx, as these can change order
> when connected to different SATA ports.
>

Thanks miss Marjorie!
One thing I hadn't thought of!!
My present system drives and raid are all identified by UUID so that
should help things!

Thanks!!!
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[DNG] further new build questions

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Can you tell I don't do this very often? (Its been some number of
years and I'm not remembering most of the details and I just don't
like oopses!!)

One of the things that I'm doing different in my new install is that
the system itself is going to be on a raid-1 (mirror).
So how can I start by setting up the mirrors?
(4 drives - - - 2 mirrors)

Then - - - I've got a lot of software that I have installed on my present box.
How do I generate a list of stuff, easily human readable, so that I
can set up the new box with most of the stuff that I have on the
present system?
(I am moving from debian testing to devuan testing as well if that
presents any gotchas.)

I have used partitions for /efi, /boot, /, /usr, /usr/local, /var and
/home for a long time now.
Any need to change this practice?

Had used btrfs for my latest filesystem instead of ext4 upon
recommendation by a mentor (who is now deceased).
Is this a good idea or are other options 'better'?

Hopefully not too many questions!

TIA
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[DNG] Fwd: New build + extras

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 8:55 PM Steve Litt  wrote:
>
> o1bigtenor via Dng said on Mon, 30 May 2022 17:07:44 -0500
>
> >On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 5:03 PM o1bigtenor 
>
> >Not trying to start any kind of 'holy war' but was thinking of using
> >SysV init unless there are some great arguments where another option
> >is better - - - that is something that needs its own advice.
>
> Before I continue, I was quite happy with sysvinit 1998 to whenever
> upstart took over. Sysvinit does the job.
>
> In my opinion the difference between sysvinit and OpenRC is not enough
> to walk away from the familiar sysvinit.
>
> Now, because runit exists, I would never again start up my daemons
> using sysvinit. Instead, I would do one of the two following:
>
> 1: Use sysvinit for PID1, and:
> A: Start runit in /etc/inittab as a respawn
> B: For each daemon:
> i: Disable the daemon in sysvinit
> ii: Enable it in runit
>
> 2: Use runit as a complete init system
>
> If I were using Devuan (my Daily Driver Desktop (DDD) is Void), I would
> choose alternative 1 because it's simple and sticks with what I know. If
> I were using a native runit distro like Void I'd use alternative 2.
>
> I think #1 is a great way to slowly wade from the shallow end of to the
> deep end.
>
So on a complicated system - - - - this sounds like things could get
sorta interesting. I have some 14+ GB of software in my /usr partition
so I don't think I'm into straightforward stuff (LOL). Dunno what this
would be like in real life.

I need to make a decision quickly because the new system will
hopefully be here by the end of the week and then its assemble
and start the loading!!

How does runit improve things from SysV?

Have you tried running devuan on 64 bit SOCs yet?

Am thinking of using some such for servers - - - dunno where to
get info - - - - looking at some interesting logging for a fairly large amount
of inputs and then afterward looking at the data for determining a
number of different things. The software - - - looks like I'm going to
have to roll my own. Just isn't much that I think is good stuff at
prices I'm willing to pay (ag related stuff).

Thanks for the tip!

Regards
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Re: [DNG] New build + extras

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 5:03 PM o1bigtenor  wrote:
>
> Greetings
>
> I am investing in a new system.
> (Ryzen 7 5800X + Ryzen 570 gpu)
>
> The old system has a raid 10 array that I would like to put into the new 
> system.
>
> The new system is going to add 2 M2 drives that I want to set up as raid 1
> and this is for use for /EFI, /boot, /, /var, /usr and swap.
> There are 2 2.5" SDDs that are going to be set up as raid 1 for /home.
> Want to be running Devuan daedalus.
>
> The idea is to transfer the previously used drives from the old system
> into the new system.
>
> The question:
> is it better to load the system and then add the hard drives
>
> or
>
> do I move the drives into the system and then install the system with
> the drives at the same time.
>
> (2 step process or 1 step process.)
>
> Any gotchas I should be aware of - - - have not ever installed AMD
> procs nor gpus (want to run the open source drivers and will be quite
> happy to leave the nvidea world behind).

Not trying to start any kind of 'holy war' but was thinking of using
SysV init unless there are some great arguments where another option
is better - - - that is something that needs its own advice.
>
> (If further information is needed please advise.)
>
> Regards
>
> Aj
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[DNG] New build + extras

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

I am investing in a new system.
(Ryzen 7 5800X + Ryzen 570 gpu)

The old system has a raid 10 array that I would like to put into the new system.

The new system is going to add 2 M2 drives that I want to set up as raid 1
and this is for use for /EFI, /boot, /, /var, /usr and swap.
There are 2 2.5" SDDs that are going to be set up as raid 1 for /home.
Want to be running Devuan daedalus.

The idea is to transfer the previously used drives from the old system
into the new system.

The question:
is it better to load the system and then add the hard drives

or

do I move the drives into the system and then install the system with
the drives at the same time.

(2 step process or 1 step process.)

Any gotchas I should be aware of - - - have not ever installed AMD
procs nor gpus (want to run the open source drivers and will be quite
happy to leave the nvidea world behind).

(If further information is needed please advise.)

Regards

Aj
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[DNG] assistance sought to repair install - - re:python

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

I was trying to clean up my /usr/bin directory so was discarding older
versions of software.
Had python3.10 available so thought (foolishly - - now clear) that
python3.9 was a great candidate for discard.
Nope nix and no way.

Now I have myself more than a bit of a mess with my installed python systems.

Suggestions as to how to repair my 'mess'?

(Following is what the apt update upgrade process barfs up.
Please - - - I'm not any kind of programmer just an over eager user
who tends to beat his systems up - - - hard!!)

Setting up python2.7-minimal (2.7.18-13.1) ...
Could not find platform independent libraries 
Could not find platform dependent libraries 
Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to [:]
/usr/bin/python2.7: can't open file
'/usr/lib/python2.7/py_compile.py': [Errno 2] No such file or
directory
dpkg: error processing package python2.7-minimal (--configure):
 installed python2.7-minimal package post-installation script
subprocess returned error exit status 2
Setting up python3.9-minimal (3.9.12-1) ...
update-binfmts: warning: /usr/share/binfmts/python3.9: no executable
/usr/bin/python3.9 found, but continuing anyway as you request
/var/lib/dpkg/info/python3.9-minimal.postinst: 51: /usr/bin/python3.9: not found
dpkg: error processing package python3.9-minimal (--configure):
 installed python3.9-minimal package post-installation script
subprocess returned error exit status 127
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of python3.9:
 python3.9 depends on python3.9-minimal (= 3.9.12-1); however:
  Package python3.9-minimal is not configured yet.

dpkg: error processing package python3.9 (--configure):
 dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of python2.7:
 python2.7 depends on python2.7-minimal (= 2.7.18-13.1); however:
  Package python2.7-minimal is not configured yet.

dpkg: error processing package python2.7 (--configure):
 dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of python3.9-dev:
 python3.9-dev depends on python3.9 (= 3.9.12-1); however:
  Package python3.9 is not configured yet.

dpkg: error processing package python3.9-dev (--configure):
 dependency problems - leaving unconfigured

Errors were encountered while processing:
 python2.7-minimal
 python3.9-minimal
 python3.9
 python2.7
 python3.9-dev
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Re: [DNG] information request

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 6:37 AM Antony Stone
 wrote:
>
> On Wednesday 20 April 2022 at 13:17:48, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
>
> > Greetings
> >
> > In the process of upgrading my system I now am stuck at a point where
> > I don't know how to resolve the conundrum.
> >
> > /bin/sh: 1: /usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found
> > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10
> > returned an error code (1)
> > E: Failure running script /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10
> >
> > when I go to look at the files and folders in /usr/bin/  I can find
> > this apt-listchanges but somehow the apt 'system' isn't seeing it or
> > is seeing it poorly.
> >
> > When I try apt --fix-broken install  I the same message.
> >
> > How do I resolve this - - - - -please?
>
> I found myself in exactly this situation recently.
>
> I had a machine running Beowulf with all mounted file systems as LVM logical
> volumes.  I created a duplicate LV of the root file system and rebooted from
> it, then performed an upgrade to Chimaera.
>
> I wasn't happy (for reasons that don't matter here) with the result, so I
> simply re-booted back into the untouched Beowulf root FS.
>
> Unfortunately I had neglected to consider the consequences of my having
> created a separate /var partition in the first place, which got used by the
> Chimaera upgrade, and was then thoroughly corrupted as far as Beowulf was
> concered (mainly due to /var/dpkg, I'm sure).
>
> It turned out that the "/usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found" message is highly
> misleading, and means that the script could not find the Python interpreter it
> expected to, not that the script itself could not be found.
>
> So, I think if you look at the first line of that script on your system, it
> will point to something like /usr/bin/python3, which is probably a symlink to
> something else in /usr/bin, which does not exist.
>
> I hope this should at least give you some pointers as to what it is you need
> to fix - get the correct version of Python3 installed.
>

I had just previously deleted the folder python3.9 but python3.10 was
right beside so thought deleting the previous would make more room (which I
desperately need!!).

When looking at the first lines in apt-listchanges - - - well I'm no programmer
but the code looks more like Perl to me with the use of the :: directives but
I dunno much about programming so that could be right out to lunch!!!

Not seeing anything like what you're describing - - - sorry.

When the tools to fix the broken tools don't work - - - - what are the options?
Is there only a re-install?
(That would be scary - - - - this is a complicated system and I've got piles
of software installed!! - - - last time I did this things were quite hairy for
quite a while  Not fun at all!)

Thank you for the information - - - good to know that the error message
really doesn't connect with the real world - - - - I wasn't even able
to find any
references on the web - - - - ZERO - - - which - - I thought was sorta unusual!

Regards
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[DNG] information request

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

In the process of upgrading my system I now am stuck at a point where
I don't know how to resolve the conundrum.

/bin/sh: 1: /usr/bin/apt-listchanges: not found
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10
returned an error code (1)
E: Failure running script /usr/bin/apt-listchanges --apt || test $? -lt 10

when I go to look at the files and folders in /usr/bin/  I can find
this apt-listchanges but somehow the apt 'system' isn't seeing it or
is seeing it poorly.

When I try apt --fix-broken install  I the same message.

How do I resolve this - - - - -please?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] 'safe browsing'

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

mz googly is now pushing for her 'safe browsing' tool to be enabled.

Methinks this is quite a trojan horse.

What do those who really do know what they're doing (ie NOT me!!)
think of this initiative?

TIA
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[DNG] browsers

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Firefox is quite ticking me off.
It has this penchant for NOT remembering the previous session even
when the click box has been 'enabled'.

I am quite uncomfortable with ms googly's desire to know everything
about me but maybe I would use chromium IF I can stop the trackers. In
FF I use ublockorigin and privacy badger.

Someone who is using chromium - - - - is it possible to harden chromium?

Please - - - I'm quite frustrated with Firefox.

(I've also got Vivaldi, Opera and Falkon available.
Find that all the other browsers except firefox-esr expect one to
update almost daily - - - sorry I find that that kind of behavior is
usually a waste of my time!)

TIA
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[DNG] moving from Debian testing to Daedalus

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Looking at moving more systems from Debian over to Devuan.
(Sorry - - - - I'm slow at this and the have been long running systems!)

Are there any tools (process scripts) for switching like there are for
moving from Debian stable to Chimaera?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] online purchasing (dunno - - - maybe OT)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 10:44 AM Ken Dibble  wrote:
>
> On 3/9/22 11:11, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > Greetings
> >
> > Wondering what others are noticing.
> >
> > I made a purchase from an online store - - - its a smaller entity that
> > covers some interesting niches - - therefore the order.
> >
> > In doing the purchase - - - noticed, using uBlockOrigin and
> > PrivacyBadger, that paypal 'only' has some 9 domains linked into the
> > transaction. Hmmm - - - that's not all - - - that's what PrivacyBadger
> > was picking up - - - uBlockOrigin noted that there were some 15
> > domains of which it blocked some 4. Still linked were crackbook and a
> > bunch of ms googly's garbage.
> >
> > So I called the company to tell them that I found this concerning.
> >
> > I asked the person that I was talking to if they were into internet
> > privacy and security - - - very much so was the answer. So I asked him
> > why he needed all these domains connected. The long and short of it
> > was that he got quite huffy and asked me to cancel my order (and
> > without saying so) get lost. It is more important to him that everyone
> > and his dog know about his transactions that it is for him to make
> > transactions.
> >
> > I do wish there were a way of warning other customers - - - - his
> > website is likely a magnet for web bottom feeders and he doesn't think
> > its worth things about.
> >
> > Oh well - - - for me - -
> > - once and not again.
> >
> > Its bloody hard not to purchase online - - - what are any of you
> > seeing, think about this, doing about this?
> >
> > What can be done to minimize the negative effects of dealing with this
> > kind of website?
> >
> > Hopefully not just adjudged as noise!
> >
> > TIA
> > ___
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> > Dng@lists.dyne.org
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>
> I am not sure what you mean by "domains linked in".

For giggles I grabbed the list from uBlockOrigin right here reading
gmail's stuff:
all
images
3rd-party
inline scripts
1st-party scripts
3rd-party scripts
3rd-party frames
google.com
aa.google.com
apis.google.com
clients2.google.com
addons-pa.clients6.google.com
appsgrowthpromo-pa.clients6.google.com
people-pa.clients6.google.com
signaler-pa.clients6.google.com
contacts.google.com
mail.google.com
mail-ads.google.com
ogs.google.com
googleusercontent.com
ci3.googleusercontent.com
ci4.googleusercontent.com
ci5.googleusercontent.com
ci6.googleusercontent.com
lh3.googleusercontent.com
gstatic.com
fonts.gstatic.com
ssl.gstatic.com
www.gstatic.com


Each line is another domain.


Regards
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Re: [DNG] online purchasing (dunno - - - maybe OT)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Wondering what others are noticing.

I made a purchase from an online store - - - its a smaller entity that
covers some interesting niches - - therefore the order.

In doing the purchase - - - noticed, using uBlockOrigin and
PrivacyBadger, that paypal 'only' has some 9 domains linked into the
transaction. Hmmm - - - that's not all - - - that's what PrivacyBadger
was picking up - - - uBlockOrigin noted that there were some 15
domains of which it blocked some 4. Still linked were crackbook and a
bunch of ms googly's garbage.

So I called the company to tell them that I found this concerning.

I asked the person that I was talking to if they were into internet
privacy and security - - - very much so was the answer. So I asked him
why he needed all these domains connected. The long and short of it
was that he got quite huffy and asked me to cancel my order (and
without saying so) get lost. It is more important to him that everyone
and his dog know about his transactions that it is for him to make
transactions.

I do wish there were a way of warning other customers - - - - his
website is likely a magnet for web bottom feeders and he doesn't think
its worth things about.

Oh well - - - for me - - - once and not again.

Its bloody hard not to purchase online - - - what are any of you
seeing, think about this, doing about this?

What can be done to minimize the negative effects of dealing with this
kind of website?

Hopefully not just adjudged as noise!

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Change to Devuan package version policy

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 3:27 AM Mark Hindley  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> At the Devuan Dev meeting on Thursday 3rd February at 2030 UTC, it was agreed 
> to
> change the Devuan package version numbering policy. The Devuan version that is
> appended to forked packages will change from '+devuanN' to 'devuanN'. For the
> full rationale behind this decision see below.
snip

Thank you for including the explanation.
Help me, at the very least, to understand the whys and whatfors.
Rather unlike what I've found to date.

Thanking you very very much for your consideration

Regards
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Re: [DNG] IPv6 for dummies by a dummy (was: Configuring ethernet port for IPv6)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

I hope that others might also contribute even questions and thereby
a document in the 'how to' class is created.

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 5:03 PM Simon  wrote:
>
> o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
>
> > Not only do I want to echo mr Joel but for mr Simon.
> > This gives great information - - - all together AND in a fashion that
> > I think I may even be understanding this.
>
> Thanks, that makes it worthwhile having written it.
> As you might have guessed, I’m in the IPv6 is good camp. Frustratingly my ISP 
> ran IPv6 trials several years ago but has since gone quiet - even though 
> their parent company (a larger ISP) rolled out IPv6 by default several years 
> ago !
>
> > Please would you fashion perhaps 2 or three more messages for
> > intermediate and maybe even extend this into more of the
> > 'advanced' networking country.
>
> I’m not sure there’s all that much I can add. One of the problems of not 
> using it often enough is that I’ve forgotten a lot of what I learned when I 
> worked through the tunnelbroker certification - which BTW will (if it’s still 
> part of the deal) will get you what must be one of the geekiest tee shirts 
> ever created !
>
snip

> You will want to configure an IPv6 firewall. I used Shorewall for this - it’s 
> an amazing package. It’s still usable, but it’s time is now limited as it’s 
> deeply entangled with iptables which is now deprecated and replaced with 
> nftables. I imagine that at some point the iptables compatibility shim will 
> go away and that will stop Shorewall.
>
I am looking at (have the hardware waiting for pickup) running something
like Pfsense or Opnsense for a firewall. It seems that either support
ipv6 as well.

snip
>
> > I am not needing ipv6 at present but likely this spring fiber optics
> > are happening (finally some decent speed options) and they are
> > in the process of moving to ipv6 likely within a year or so. I would
> > prefer to know at least some more before I 'need' it.
>
> Good news then - the more ISPs do IPv6 the better. The main thing to remember 
> is that IPv4 vs IPv6 is orthogonal to the rest of the stack - the physical 
> layer underneath (fibre, ethernet, xDSL, cable, dial-up, damp string, carrier 
> pigeon, ...) and the session layers higher up (DNS, HTTP, SMTP, ...).
> Things are not completely disconnected as things need to support the 
> differences - e.g. handling 128 bit long addresses, doing  lookups as 
> well as A, and so on. But (and not speaking as someone who’s had to deal with 
> that), I think a lot of that is handled by the standard libraries.
>

Wondering about physical setup.

I had thought of running my network (part of it at least) like this:

WAN == router == firewall == managed switch == complicated network

It has been suggested to me that I should combine the router and
the firewall functions into the same machine. Which option (combining
functions or separating functions) gives a more robust network?

Where would a pihole function in this scenario?

An air gapped machine is considered the most secure.
Doing this makes updating the system more difficult and could
make some tasks more difficult. (Business reasons for wanting
as high a security as possible.)

How secure can a system be made using firewall(s)?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] questions further into networking

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 9:41 AM Michael Neuffer via Dng
 wrote:
>
>
>
> On 1/30/22 20:05, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > Greetings
> >
> > (Growing out of the 'Configuring ethernet port of ipv6' thread.)
> >
> > I have been considering setting up a 'Pihole' to enhance my network here.
> >
> > Is a Pihole a useful addition into a ipv6 network or ?
>
>
> I've been using it for quite a while. It blocks about 30-45% of my daily
> DNS requests IPv4 & IPv6
>
> It is quite an effective DNS based pre-filter
>
> And you get warnings like this
> 2022-01-28 00:00:48 RATE_LIMIT  Client fd00::9b3a:1467:d7db:58c9 has 
> been
> rate-limited (current config allows up to 1000 queries in 60 seconds)
>
> which might help you in case of problems. (In this case this was my
> laptop starting an odd job)
>
>
Seems like  to Pis are going to be needed for here - - - grin.
One for a pihole and another for voip services (asterisk + )

Thank you for your help!!!

Regards
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Re: [DNG] questions further into networking

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 2:42 PM Simon  wrote:
>
> o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
>
> > I have been considering setting up a 'Pihole' to enhance my network here.
> >
> > Is a Pihole a useful addition into a ipv6 network or ?
>
> (As already mentioned) The Pihole works at the DNS level, so it simply blocks 
> DNS lookups for “stuff you don’t want”. So it’s agnostic to the transport 
> layer - IPv4 or IPv6.
> I can’t help thinking that one (of several) reasons for things like 
> DNSoverHTTPS, and as I recently read on another mailing list that (at least) 
> one of the TV streaming devices only works with the vendor’s DNS service is 
> to bypass protections like DNS filtering/blocking.
>

Hmmm - - - very interesting!

When this (streaming device only works with the vendor's DNS) happens
- - - is there a way to
counter or change that particular behavior?

(Fascinating what's all connected!!!)

Regards
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[DNG] questions further into networking

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

(Growing out of the 'Configuring ethernet port of ipv6' thread.)

I have been considering setting up a 'Pihole' to enhance my network here.

Is a Pihole a useful addition into a ipv6 network or ?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Configuring ethernet port for IPv6

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 8:14 AM Simon  wrote:
>
> Joel Roth via Dng  wrote:
>
> > My problem is connecting via dhcp over ethernet.  On IRC
> > I was advised to try
> >
> > ping ff02::1%eth1
> >
> > which fails to get a response, indicating IPv6 is not enabled in my client.
> >
> > I tried setting "iface eth1 inet6 dhcp" in /etc/network/interfaces,
> > then "ifup eth1".  This fails with
> >
> > no link-local IPv6 address for eth1
> >
> > References suggest that "ifconfig eth1 up" or "ip link set dev eth1 up"
> > will trigger the kernel to assign an IPv6 address. Since
> > this is not happening, I'm asking the wisdom of the list VUAs
> > how to enable IPv6 for this port.
>
> You don’t actually need DHCP to configure IPv6.
snip
> As an aside, and not specifically in response to either of the above emails, 
> I recommend the certification scheme run by HE at 
> https://ipv6.he.net/certification/, and if your ISP doesn’t yet offer IPv6, 
> then their tunnel service will provide you with good IPv6 connectivity. It’s 
> true that there is some learning you need to do for IPv6, but this course 
> will take you through things in steps - start with the basics and work up to 
> the more complicated stuff. The only bit I thought was a p.i.t.a. is a stage 
> where you have to provide ping and traceroute results to 100 different IPv6 
> destinations over 100 days. The hardest part if finding 100 different 
> destinations - at the time I did it, I did some grepping of DNS server logs 
> at work to find them ;-)
>
>
Not only do I want to echo mr Joel but for mr Simon.
This gives great information - - - all together AND in a fashion that
I think I may even be understanding this.
Please would you fashion perhaps 2 or three more messages for
intermediate and maybe even extend this into more of the
'advanced' networking country.

I am not needing ipv6 at present but likely this spring fiber optics
are happening (finally some decent speed options) and they are
in the process of moving to ipv6 likely within a year or so. I would
prefer to know at least some more before I 'need' it.

TIA
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Re: [DNG] connecting to a chromebook (OT??)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 1:04 PM Rod Rodolico via Dng  wrote:
>
> FYI, I'm doing the same thing. I have spent some time setting up a
> Chromebook "securely" (in theory), though mainly to access a Linux
> Terminal Server over a VPN.
>
> First, are you using the built in Linux subsystem? When I bring up the
> ChromeOS terminal (ctrl-alt-T, not the linux subsystem), the crosh
> prompt does not have the ip or the ifconfig commands. However, when I
> look at my network connection (via the GUI), I'm seeing an IP in my
> network range.

I have used the 'dev' mode and set up debian in it.
Not used to pure command line (long ago Mac background spoiled me for
that) so I'm trying to install a dual boot system. One issue is that the
screen keyboard doesn't (on a Lenovo 10e (IIRC) chromebook anyway)
have control and alt keys so that means there are some things that are
too 'kinky' to do.
>
> I went ahead and installed the Linux subsystem again (I'm spending a lot
> of time playing on it) and my IP for that is 10.115.92.205/28, so it
> looks like the Linux subsystem is using using some kind of virtual IP,
> similar to what virtlib does by default.
>
Well - - - the MAC address the machine gives is different than that at
the router and the ip address at the router keeps changing - - argh!
I would like to use this thing for reading pdfs away from my desk but
I'm not sure how to get things onto it. The expectation is that I'm going
to use ms googly's drive or dropbox - - - no cottin pickin way!! to
both. I use scp on my network but that means I need to know the ip
address and be able to ssh into or out of it - - - I can't.
The ssh port (#22 IIRC) is blocked - - - how's that for stupid. Likely
everything is blocked but ms googly's stuff - - - that's the idea behind
android anyway AFAIK - - - I'm not impressed. Although - - - if I really
don't like this thing I think my wife might like it but then I wanted a tablet
she's already got one (LOL)!

Thanks for the tips!!

Regards
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Re: [DNG] connecting to a chromebook (OT??)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 8:31 AM Antony Stone
 wrote:
>
> On Wednesday 26 January 2022 at 15:24:35, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
>
> > Greetings
> >
> > If this is too far off topic - - - please advise.
>
> It's not on-topic, but I'm pretty sure people will try to advise :)
>
> > Just got myself a chromebook
>
> > My routher is at 192.168.1.1 and all my other hardware is visible there.
> > The chromebook says it is at 100.115.92.204/28.
> >
> > How did it get there?
>
> That range is reserved by IANA for certain types of connectivity providers;
> maybe yours is one of them.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4#Special-use_addresses

I had looked there and had noted that the ip address fell into that range - -
- - but  - - - -
>
> > How is it connecting to and through the router?
>
> Well, *IS* it connecting through the router?  Can you access Internet websites
> or log in to thing by SSH etc?

Its using a wireless connection from the router.
Yes - - - access the weather report so connectivity is there.
>
> What does "route -n" tell you?

route -n
Kernel IP routing table
Destination   Gateway   Genmask   more
0.0.0.0 100.115.92.1930.0.0.0
100.115.92.1920.0.0.0  255.255.255.240
>

thought I'd check if I was connected by IP address - - meant I had to
know the MAC
address of the puppy. Supposedly you do chrome://system in the browser - -
except that didn't work - - got me some fluff page.
Then there was the suggestion that you find your hardware page at the log in.
That also wasn't as depicted.
Found a page listed as diagnostics - - - there  I found listed a
BSSID: but it doesn't match what my router table has !!!
Included was an IP address which does fit on my router - - -
so I was able to find the address - - - - what an ordeal.
Seems like the machine was only made to be run and controlled
from afar - - - pity. Might be a decent tool otherwise!

(Touch keyboard doesn't have Control or Alt keys so need to find a
different touch keyboard or add a bluetooth keyboard - - - I may do both.)

Thanks for the tools - - - - I wouldn't have gotten things done without
the help

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[DNG] connecting to a chromebook (OT??)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

If this is too far off topic - - - please advise.

Just got myself a chromebook - - - - lots of hoopla la about tablets
and though I'd try one.
Its a fairly brain dead POS so I'm trying to find ways to make it useful!

So I go into the terminal ad do ifconfig and ip  a and what I'm
getting is a weird ip address.

My routher is at 192.168.1.1 and all my other hardware is visible there.
The chromebook says it is at 100.115.92.204/28.

How did it get there?

How is it connecting to and through the router?
Chromebook docs seem very light - - - hugely the 'trust us' modus - -
- which means that I don't.

I am wanting to use this thing to read pdf's when not at my computer
(ie lunch or other such times).

Not even sure what to do - - - ideas/suggestions - - please?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] software question

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 3:02 AM Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng
 wrote:
>
>
> Hendrik Boom  writes:
>
> > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 07:29:27PM +0100, Florian Zieboll via Dng wrote:
> >> On January 21, 2022 7:15:06 PM GMT+01:00, o1bigtenor via Dng 
> >>  wrote:
> >> > Greetings
> >> >
> >> > For a non-profit - - - this is not bulk email for sales - - - - bulk
> >> > email for connection.
> >> >
> >> > Is there a linux program (foss hopefully) that will allow me to do this?
> >> >
> >> > (Sending regualr emails to a group of people (from 15 to 50 recipients).)
> >>
> >> With LibreOffice you can send personalized bulk mail. IIRC it was
> >> quite annoying to set up, but once done, it worked.
> >
> > I just use /etc/aliases
>
> That was my first reaction too ;-)

OK - - -  I'm not a programmer in any shape way or form.
My guess would be when using /etc/aliases - - - - that's some
form of bash programming? using awk or ?

Please advise? (purdy (sic) please.

I just use the tools in the computering universe so far - - - have
barely begun anything any deeper. (Starting with hardware - - -
putting together stuff for control and now starting for sensors.)

TIA
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Re: [DNG] software question

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 7:59 AM Curtis Maurand via Dng
 wrote:
>
> How about PHPList?  It works like constant contact or mailchimp.
> mailchimp has a "free" level of service.  So far mailchimp has been
> enough for the small concert choir I do work for.
>

Hm - - - did a took a look at phplist - - - -
3rd post (IIRC) was titled:

Being marked as spam on all @hotmail, @outlook, @live, and @yahoo addresses

it sounds like a somewhat common issue - - - that would mean that
phplist is a little
short - - - - many people have their email accounts with one of those
providers. (Most
of the people I know in fact.)
Mailchimp seems quite widely used and even their website feels sorta
like its into
the data slurp.
Will have to take a look at this 'constant contact'.

thanks for the ideas!

Regards
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[DNG] software question

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

For a non-profit - - - this is not bulk email for sales - - - - bulk
email for connection.

Is there a linux program (foss hopefully) that will allow me to do this?

(Sending regualr emails to a group of people (from 15 to 50 recipients).)

TIA
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Re: [DNG] The Daedalus desktop needs some love

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 6:33 AM Hendrik Boom  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 02:08:12PM -0700, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote:
> > goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> > > Lars Noodén wrote:
> > > > What quality of display(s) and color calibration are required?
> > >
> > > In all the years I have been doing this, that question has never entered 
> > > my
> > > mind and I have no idea how to even begin answering it. I do "eye" art not
> > > "machine" art. I can perceive even one increment change in a hex.
> > >
> > > Problem is . . . no one can know exactly what color another person is
> > > seeing. Add to that the vagaries of the monitor and . . .
> > >
> > > I don't know if a screenshot would capture the hex or what's showing on 
> > > your
> > > monitor but maybe you could give it a try for the chimaera desktop and let
> > > us have a look.
> >
> > I just want to comment that I have two identical model displays side
> > by side in a dual monitor configuration on my desktop.  Both are
> > identical as far as any model vendor and number are concerned.  Yet
> > side by side it is pretty obvious to me that they have a difference in
> > color tone between them.  They are definitely not the same even though
> > by specification they will be the same.
> >
> > The first order difference in my two monitors I think is that the
> > backlight is not identical between them.  One shows a slightly warmer
> > color hue to the backlight from the other.  I think that swamps other
> > effects causing differences in my "matched pair".
> >
> > None of this really has any effect on how nice a color theme looks on
> > the displays though.  That's an art project more than a science project.
> >
> > Bob
>
> It's nice if the desktop colours look good on a perfectly calibrated monitor.
> But what's more important for it to look good on the variety of monitors
> regular users use.
> So we should test the imagery on the ordinary, everyday laptops and
> monitors we have at home and work.
> And it's important the the colours work even if one is colourblind.
> I'd suggest viewing it converted to greyscale as a first try at testing
> this, bt a friend of mine who is colourblind tells me it's far more
> complicated than this.
>
AIUI there are not only different forms of color blindedness but also
different levels. Putting that all together means a very large amount
of complexity.

Likely an easy path to avoid most difficulties - - - use only strong
primary colors - - - does that solve the possible issues - - - nope
but those that are color blind have learned to cope with those specific
issues (I'm thinking of red like in stop lights).

HTH
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[DNG] Question re: security/info sent with emails and more

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

When I look at the headers from my emails and sometimes available
in websites all this information about my system is included.

Is there a way to block the sending of this particular information?

Please??

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Qt, KDE, unbelievable

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 4:49 AM Steve Litt  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Read this:
>
> https://www.neowin.net/news/ads-may-be-coming-to-kde-the-popular-linux-desktop/
>
> LOL, I removed every bit of KDE, its executables and libraries, in
> 2012. Mostly for the same reasons I refuse to host systemd. Now comes
> the possibility of ads on KDE applications.
>
> But it's even worse, because Qt is doing it, so non-KDE apps might be
> involved, including the LXQt I've recommended as an alternative to
> the deprecated LXDE.
>

Now if all that advertising was actually good for something except making rich
people richer - - - -

Is it time for me to start begging the high quality programmer types for
tools to block advertising - - - period?

Just was reading today about some kind of graphics coding that when one
opened an email that notice was sent back to somewhere with info regarding
me and my system.

Please - - - this is one time where I think I would even pay for quality stuff.
The advertising behemoth is so pernicious that I really want 'Jack the Giant
killer' level applications!!!

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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 4:23 PM Steve Litt  wrote:
>
> Antony Stone said on Wed, 19 Jan 2022 22:03:23 +0100
>
> >On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 21:59:46, Steve Litt wrote:
> >
> >> goli...@devuan.org said on Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:49:41
> >> >
> >> >Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> >>
> >> For the first 36 hours after you posted this, I thought "if" was the
> >> English word "if", not "Internet Freedom" or whatever. Short and to
> >> the point works only if you don't need an accompanying explanation.
> >
> >So, maybe two different colours (or at least shades) for the two
> >letters?
> >
> >That could be enough to make people think of them separately.
>
> I doubt it. You and I think about init freedom daily. The person
> reading the logo? Not so much. Also, what does "init freedom" give
> them? We know, but do they?
>
> Honestly, I know it's hip today to say nothing negative,

Today its considered part of political correctness to say nothing
negative.

It was the norm for many many years - - - in fact - - - I remember the
phrase "If you've nothing good to say say nothing!" - - - in fact I heard
that a lot (I tend to nit pick at stupid idiocies that I find!).

So in some ways emphasising the positive benefits is a return to
society's roots. The blatant, all too often infantile, spewing that has
become far too common is a product of having too many persons
with huge skills and tiny people experience lashing out at what
they see as a personal attack, even when it isn't (although sometimes
it is). Computer society seems to be fraught with this - - - changing
this kind of behavior - - - - well the current political correctness
male bovine excrement is mostly incitement for more spewing
and not for changing hearts and minds.

In regards to the present topic - - - one only needs to look at the
response(s) from the author of this systemd malaise when he
was challenged (sometimes in a fashion that was itself unacceptable).

> but I think
> maybe the best motto is "Don't get stuck with systemd", with that
> phrase being an obvious link, leading to a short list of reasons why
> you don't want to get stuck with systemd:
>
> * Systemd is DIY hostile
> * For problems not on the systemd diagnostic "script", systemd makes
>   troubleshooting much more difficult
> * Systemd has a gargantuan attack surface
> * Systemd affirmatively and intentionally stumbling-blocks other init
>   installations.
> * Systemd replaces working solutions with new, questionable solutions
>
This is a great 'second' step - - - pulling in the uninformed is the first
step.

If you think legislating morality works I would suggest you review the
prohibition - - - the legislation really helped little (except for some who
became filthy rich at it) and changed nothing - - - at least not that I
can tell!

I hope I haven't been a serious pot stirrer in this but this discussion
seems to be polarizing - - - and if  it escalates any more it will only
divide an already small group. Wondering if its time to close the topic.
I will try very very hard not to respond further!

HTH
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:37 AM Andrew McGlashan via Dng
 wrote:
>
>
>
> On 20/1/22 1:03 am, Antony Stone wrote:
> > On Wednesday 19 January 2022 at 15:02:00, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59:35PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
>  Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png
> >>>
> >>> Or this might be even better https://transfer.sh/CeUT0r/if-rev3.png
> >>
> >> I do not see a difference between rev 2 and rev 3.
> >
> > "take"
>
> Yeah, I never noticed the "hidden" text around the circle either.
>

Watermark type of text is only useful if it is visible enough to be
seen without needing special equipment imo.

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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 3:55 AM  wrote:
>
> Curtis:
> > > On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:49 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > >> Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "
> ...
> > “Your first step matters”
>
> I'd prefer something that say that you as an owner is in control and
> has the final say. That you are not subjected to random choises by
> some clique.
>

I agree that that is what I want - - - - but I really like the idea of
nothing negative. There has been a lot of very negative stuff flying
around - - - somehow I think it is possible to make a point without
having to destroy the opposing one. Maybe I'm assuming people
would 'get it' and they don't. Just find it frustrating to be treated like
I'm an idiot as some persons have seemed to want me to think that
I am (for not finding their way as being 'wonderful' just because its
theirs).

HTH
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:59 AM Antony Stone
 wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> I wanted to check the current list of init systems supported by Devuan, so I
> went to the website to find out.
>
> I noticed the prominent motto "init freedom - watch your first step!" there,
> and wonder whether this is an entirely positive thing for new visitors to the
> Devuan world to see?
>
> It could easily, I think, be taken to mean "be careful about taking a first
> step in an unknown direction" (which is what Devuan is for a newcomer), and
> could possibly make some people decide "oh, I'm not so sure about this; maybe
> not, after all".
>
> I'm sure there can be some more positive phrase we can use about init freedom,
> to emphasise what it _gives_ people, not to emphasise being cautious about the
> unknown.
>
>
> Thoughts / opinions?
>
Agreed.

Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . .  "

I don't like promising - - -especially too much but I agree
even a hint of uncertainty is not a great idea.

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Re: [DNG] Youtube is slow and advertisement laden: Was: Early Days at Bell Labs - Youtube, the systemd of video

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 2:41 AM Mike Tubby  wrote:
>
> I have Adblock Plus installed and never see adverts on Youtube at
> home... only on the mobile.
>

So where are you installing the Adblock Plus to achieve this?

This person does want to know - - -grin!
(You know - - - 'inquiring minds want to know'.)

TIA
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[DNG] Fwd: request for assistance

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

-- Forwarded message -
From: o1bigtenor 
Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: [DNG] request for assistance
To: 


On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM  wrote:
>
> o1bigtenor:
> ...
> > I'm told to:
> >
> > rebuild the kernel with CONFIG_NOUVEAU_DEBUG_PUSH=y
> ...
>
>  That config is used in:
> drivers/gpu/drm/nouveau/include/nvif/push.h
>
> its latest commit is d502297008142645edf5c791af424ed321e5da84
> from 2021-01-19, so you need kernel v5.11-rc6 or later. So
> get a suffiently new kernel and do as they say.
>

Hmm  - - - - and HOW do I do that?
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[DNG] request for assistance

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

When I put this system together ( a LONG time ago) nvidia was not
quite the pariah it has become in the open source community. So I'm
stuck with nouveau for drivers (its a long explanation but trust me
I'm STUCK there!).

Nouveau is really not as wonderful as it purports to be and I would
love nothing better than to move to a Radeon solution except changing
the whole system for that is just a little cost prohibitive and then
newer gpus are mostly limited to at best 4 outputs and I have 5. Don't
really want to buy 2 cards either as that makes things just too bloody
expensive. So a new system is on hold until this one shows definite
signs of imminent demise or somebody drops a bunch of $$$ into my
pocket (fat chance of that!!).

So I have filed a bug report over at nouveau's system and they are
telling me to do something that I just can't find any information on
the web as a how to. Maybe someone here knows this area
(kernel/gpu/drm/whatever other software they're dragging in!) and
could advise.

I'm told to:

rebuild the kernel with CONFIG_NOUVEAU_DEBUG_PUSH=y

followed by:

boot the machine with drm.debug=0x16 log_bug_len=50m nouveau.debug=disp=trace

(the second command is maybe covered here:
https://www.howtoforge.com/tutorial/kernel-boot-parameter-edit/
but if there is a better/easier way please advise!!)

Is there anyone who can help?

(I really want to use that 4k monitor - - - I've been looking at it
for about 8 months now and when I connect it well - - - I get 2 to 16
hours of uptime and then its time to reboot - - - a royal pita()
at best)

TIA
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Re: [DNG] request for assistance

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 10:22 PM Olaf Meeuwissen
 wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> o1bigtenor via Dng  writes:
>
> > On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 6:14 AM wirelessduck--- via Dng
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 7 Jan 2022, at 22:02, o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Greetings
> >>>
> >>> Basic question is: what happened?
> >>>
> >>> I wanted to update a beowulf system.
> >>> So did the apt update, apt upgrade, apt dist-upgrade
> >>> after changing the references in /etc/apt/sources.list
> >>> from beowulf to chimaera.
> >>>
> >>> After reboot - - - well - - - screen says devuan but
> >>> uname -r is 4.19.xx and not 5.10.xx
> >>>
> >>> Any ideas as to how I update the kernel?
> >>
> >> Do you have the linux-image-amd64 package installed? This is the
> >> meta-package that depends on the latest Linux kernel package for the
> >> currently installed release; 4.19 for beowulf and 5.10 for
> >> chimaera. Without this package there is nothing to tell APT to
> >> install the newer kernel package on dist-upgrade.
> >>
> >> https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?cpackage
> >
> > No - - - dunno how but all that was installed was a kernel.
>
> What probably happened is that you selected the versioned kernel in the
> devuan-installer when you first installed that beowulf system.  The
> installer gives you a choice between a versioned kernel and one that
> tracks the latest version.
>
> I don't remember if that choice is available in the default install or
> only in the expert install, though.
>
I was taught by a now deceased very long time *nix user to use a
distributed partition system doing a system install. (Means I have
partitions for root, var, usr, usr-local,swap and home.) This means
that most often I have to use 'expert' install even though I'm no bloody
expert. It is very likely that when I chose expert install that it was
chosen for me to use a versioned kernel. Not recognizing that is
very much a function of me using expert tools where I understand
a very small part of what I'm actually doing.

Thanking you very much for your assistance and also the adding
to my understanding!!

Regards
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Re: [DNG] request for assistance

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 6:14 AM wirelessduck--- via Dng
 wrote:
>
>
>
> On 7 Jan 2022, at 22:02, o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
>
> Greetings
>
> Basic question is: what happened?
>
> I wanted to update a beowulf system.
> So did the apt update, apt upgrade, apt dist-upgrade
> after changing the references in /etc/apt/sources.list
> from beowulf to chimaera.
>
> After reboot - - - well - - - screen says devuan but
> uname -r is 4.19.xx and not 5.10.xx
>
> Any ideas as to how I update the kernel?
>
> TIA
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>
>
> Do you have the linux-image-amd64 package installed? This is the meta-package 
> that depends on the latest Linux kernel package for the currently installed 
> release; 4.19 for beowulf and 5.10 for chimaera. Without this package there 
> is nothing to tell APT to install the newer kernel package on dist-upgrade.
>
> https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package=linux-image-amd64=submit

No - - - dunno how but all that was installed was a kernel.

Thanks for the tip!

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Re: [DNG] request for assistance

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 5:14 AM Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via Dng
 wrote:
>
> Anno domini 2022 Fri, 7 Jan 05:01:46 -0600
>  o1bigtenor via Dng scripsit:
> > Greetings
> >
> > Basic question is: what happened?
> >
> > I wanted to update a beowulf system.
> > So did the apt update, apt upgrade, apt dist-upgrade
> > after changing the references in /etc/apt/sources.list
> > from beowulf to chimaera.
> >
> > After reboot - - - well - - - screen says devuan but
> > uname -r is 4.19.xx and not 5.10.xx
> >
> > Any ideas as to how I update the kernel?
>
> Most likely you have 2 kernels installed, but GRUB loads the old one. Check 
> that with
> $ dpkg -l|grep linux-image
>

Checked that - - - thanks - - - - not the case.
There was only the 4.19.xxx kernel listed.

Thanks
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[DNG] Fwd: request for assistance

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

-- Forwarded message -
From: o1bigtenor 
Date: Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: [DNG] request for assistance
To: Olaf Meeuwissen 


On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 5:12 AM Olaf Meeuwissen  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> o1bigtenor via Dng  writes:
>
> > Greetings
> >
> > Basic question is: what happened?
> >
> > I wanted to update a beowulf system.
> > So did the apt update, apt upgrade, apt dist-upgrade
> > after changing the references in /etc/apt/sources.list
> > from beowulf to chimaera.
> >
> > After reboot - - - well - - - screen says devuan but
> > uname -r is 4.19.xx and not 5.10.xx
> >
> > Any ideas as to how I update the kernel?
>
> Do you by any chance have only a versioned kernel image package
> installed?  Something like linux-image-4.19.xx-y-amd64.
>
> If so, you want to install linux-image-amd64 to keep getting the latest
> version.
>
> Adjust for your architecture if necessary.
>
> Hope this helps,

Dunno how it happened but installed linux-image-amd64 did
a reboot and things are different.

Thank you!
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[DNG] request for assistance

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Basic question is: what happened?

I wanted to update a beowulf system.
So did the apt update, apt upgrade, apt dist-upgrade
after changing the references in /etc/apt/sources.list
from beowulf to chimaera.

After reboot - - - well - - - screen says devuan but
uname -r is 4.19.xx and not 5.10.xx

Any ideas as to how I update the kernel?

TIA
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[DNG] Fwd: Printer trouble again. (slight progress)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

(sorry list - - - Imanaged to send this as private email only - - - - argh!!)

Subject: Re: [DNG] Printer trouble again. (slight progress)
To: Florian Zieboll 


On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 12:22 PM Florian Zieboll via Dng
 wrote:
>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 12:40:24 -0500
> Hendrik Boom  wrote:
>
> > DeviceURI
> > dnssd://Brother%20HL-3170CDW%20series._ipp._tcp.local/?uuid=e3248000-80ce-11db-8000-30055c5516df
>
>
> Hallo Hendrik,
>
> as you mentioned "driverless" earlier in this thread: I remember, that
> "driverless printing" had been mentioned in some de[bi|vu]an release
> notes not too long ago - and indeed, a quick websearch confirms, that
> printing /with/ a driver is even considered as "deprecated" for cups:
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/SystemPrinting#Driverless_Printing
>
> BTW, many printers accept a simple netcat'ed pdf at port 9100:
>

I'm a wondering if the 'experts' (in this case the cups people) are thinking
that no drivers makes things better.

Here - - - - no driver seems to be taking a very long time, sometimes 30
seconds +, to start the printing process. I don't remember printing
hesitating like this in the past.

Is this another example of the new improved being rather otherwise?

Please advise.
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Re: [DNG] more printer questions

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 10:25 AM Maurice McCarthy via Dng
 wrote:
>
> No, no. It is the other way around. A driverless printer means you do
> _not _need any driver or other software to print.

Seems to take a very long time before printing starts though.
Then there is also the goofy ip address - - - or it sure looks
goofy to me.

If I did install a driver - - - might the time to print shrink?

Please advise
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[DNG] more printer questions

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Following the thread 'Priter trouble again' there has
been some discussion on finding the IP address of the
printer.

Thought I would look at my information.
Printer is connected to my lan using a standard (I think
it is anyway) ethernet cable.

When I look in the 'Printers' tab I see the following:

Queue NameDescriptionLocationMake and ModelStatus
HP_Color_LaserJet_M452dw_2AB8D4_HP_Color_LaserJet_M452dw_2AB8D4_Color
LaserJet M452dwIdle
HP_Color_LaserJet_M452dw_2AB8D4_@NPI2AB8D4.localHP_Color_LaserJet_M452dw_2AB8D4_@NPI2AB8D4.localHP
Color LaserJet M452dw, driverless, cups-filters 1.28.10Idle

when I shut the printer off the second line disappears

1. that's a goofy looking address - - - any ideas as to why
the address is listed like that
2. the printer is listed as "driverless"
means that something is not right - - - so what do I do?

(I'm assuming that I need to install drivers but whose and why?)

TIA
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[DNG] request for assistance

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Following the official directions:

https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/upgrade-to-chimaera

I get :

# apt update
Ign:1 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera InRelease
Ign:2 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera-security InRelease
Ign:3 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera-updates InRelease
Ign:4 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera-backports InRelease
Err:5 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera Release
  404  Not Found [IP: 131.188.12.211 80]
Err:6 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera-security Release
  404  Not Found [IP: 131.188.12.211 80]
Err:7 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera-updates Release
  404  Not Found [IP: 131.188.12.211 80]
Err:8 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera-backports Release
  404  Not Found [IP: 131.188.12.211 80]
Reading package lists... Done
E: The repository 'http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera Release' does
not have a Release file.
N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is
therefore disabled by default.
N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user
configuration details.
E: The repository 'http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera-security
Release' does not have a Release file.
N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is
therefore disabled by default.
N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user
configuration details.
E: The repository 'http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera-updates
Release' does not have a Release file.
N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is
therefore disabled by default.
N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user
configuration details.
E: The repository 'http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimera-backports
Release' does not have a Release file.
N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is
therefore disabled by default.
N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user
configuration details.


Hmm - - - not only does that response me that I was unsuccessful
in upgrading but 2> it means I really don't know what to do next.

Please - - - what do I do to succeed at apt dist-upgrade? (from
beowulf to chimera)

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 10:51 AM Steve Litt 
wrote:

> Marc Shapiro via Dng said on Mon, 13 Dec 2021 08:06:15 -0800
>
>
> >Do you have firefox running?  I was under the impression that it
> >requires pulseaudio.  At least it did at one time.  That is why I
> >installed pulseaudio in the first place.
>
> Do what I do and use Chromium. It's a pig but less of a pig and has
> less unexpected behavior than firefox. Chromium doesn't require
> pulseaudio or pipewire.
>
>
Ah - - - but - - - Mr Steve - - - Chromium has this enormous appetite
for my information - - - - and it LOVES to 'call home' (a la ET).
I ran Chromium for a while until I noticed all the from outside my
network solicited connection requests that were happening.
Only found that by looking at router logs. I'm not into iptables
or the newer nftables enough to try and control this behavior
using those tools - - - - just dumped chromium. (Besides chromium
decided it didn't like pages with lots of tabs and wanted to die - - -
so I helped it disappear from my system!!)

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Re: [DNG] Wanting to set up an email system

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 3:26 AM Adrian Zaugg 
wrote:

> In der Nachricht vom Monday, 29 November 2021 23:08:33 CET schrieb Adrian
> Zaugg:
> > Be prepared for a long, long journey setting up an email system with
> > SMTP/ IMAP/Webmail using all the goodies SPF/SRS, BATV, DKIM, DNSSEC, TLS
> > certs, DANE, virusscanning, anti-spam Measures (possibly greylisting,
> > classification, RBLs, dnswl, ...), virtual domain handling, user auth
> from
> > a directory, automatical MUA configuration, backup of the mailstorage,
> asf.
> ...sieve and vacation might also be nice and a solution for an
> addressbook,
> both integrated into the webmail
>


Hm - - - - interesting ideas.
A couple votes for dovecot, lots of roll your own using selected from the
plethora of
options - - - but - - - - - .

I had thought that when I asked about an email system that there might be
words
re: dovecot  (which I did see - - thanks) but what about iRedMail,
Citadel,  Cyrus
- - - - - or are those considered groupware only?

I think I'm getting more confused rather than less!!

TIA

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[DNG] networking thinking

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

In anticipation of a fiber optical connection (moving from a wireless) I
have been planning out and purchasing some bits of hardware. Am finding
that networking is, at least sure seems to be, another black hole for time
and effort.

TL;DR (skip to last paragraphs for the question(s))

At present this is a soho office kind of installation but that will slowly
be morphing into something that is at least somewhat larger. There are a
number of input sensor locations being worked on some of which would be
generating, initially at least, up to 15 data streams sampled possibly
every second (some maybe more often - - - decisions aren't all done as yet)
so there will be a fair amount of data running around on my network which
I'm trying to keep largely a wired affair.

At this point I'm working on the three entry bits of hardware (and their
software) - - - the router, hardware firewall, and the managed switch. The
initial hockup on the fiber system is going to be at 250 Mbps sysmetric.

For the router I'm planning on using OpenWRT running on a Nanopi r4s which
according to the folks over on openwrt capable of even very close to full
Gbps speeds (IIRC tested to some 918 Mbps) which would give some headroom
for future increases although I don't see a need for the foreseeable
future.

For the switch I have found myself a XyZel 1900-48 that I'm working on
getting OpenWRT on. This ability to run a managed switch on OpenWRT is
somewhat new but its open source and I'm not tied (I don't think) to
OpenWRT - - - - except I don't know any other real alternative - - - so
that's not a difficult solution either. I don't 'need' 48 ports but I have
16 at present on a hub and its almost full and that's for stuff only here
in the orifice (sic!). I also want the capabilities of forcing streaming
services and wireless communications to not collect any more data from any
other part of the network (using VLANs) as is possible.

Then lastly to the hardware firewall.
I've been looking at pfsense and opnsense. Both are ipv6 possible although
both are mostly focused on ipv4 at the present. IPfire seems to have gotten
itself into a holding pattern and is not continuing work toward ipv6
functionality. Any one of these options are producing headaches when I'm
trying to figure out how to configure them - - - nothing installed at
present, just researching so far.

So - - - - questions - - - -
1. is my splitting the network system into the three parts a good idea or
should I truncate parts 1 and 2 into the router? If you would please give
reasons - - - please?
2. are there any good sources for information on and about networking?
 debian has moved to nftables from iptables  - - - is devuan doing
similar?
 Where does one find information to enable a firewall that works yet
isn't stupid?

(I've wondered about having some kind of easy 'switch' that when users left
their systems that the system wouldn't be calling home in the overnight at
least a la ms googly. Dunno if that's 'simple' or not - - - so much to
learn and so little time to do it all in!)

TIA
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[DNG] Wanting to set up an email system

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

Started way back when when I got to the web full-time using webmail.
Haven't ever setup an email system and AIUI it is a system - - - there are
a lot of parts that have to work together to have everything working well.

A mentor, now deceased, recommended using Claws but even that's not all
that's needed for an email system. So - - - I'm looking for recommendations
on what and how to setup an email system. The why you're using what you are
is vitally important for me (as are my security and privacy).

Please

TIA
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Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 3:50 PM Bob Proulx via Dng 
wrote:

> Peter Duffy wrote:
> > I've recently been asked to recommend an upgrade route for a number of
> > linux servers, and I proposed going to devuan. In response, I've had a
> > concern raised which took me by surprise. It was suggested that in the
> > future, it may not be possible to find staff who have the skills to
> > administer and manage servers running non-systemd or pre-systemd
> > distros/releases.
>
> That's actually a concern that I think is valid.  Sad.  But valid.
> However it depends upon the scale of the timeline.
>
> You are working with them right now.  Are you expecting to do so over
>
> snip

> Most of us here though are more likely to be the people who do not see
> the defaults as hard limitations.  We will open things up.  We void
> warranties.  We make modifications.  We would rather be pilots than
> passengers.
>
> IMO a fairly cogent response.

< rant on
I'm here not so much because I want to be a pilot but because I want to
build the bloody plane (I'm a doer/tinkerer/fabricator and they're taking
my ability to do what I need to do away from me.
rant off>
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Re: [DNG] Embedded devuan (was Re: Devuan with usr merge?)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 6:39 PM Steve Litt 
wrote:

> Didier Kryn said on Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:36:23 +0100
>
>
> >Yes, very active and with pretty constructive exchanges and
> >collaboration with Glibc. I'm on the mailing list. See
> >http://musl.libc.org 
>
> LOL, from what I hear, a musl compiled Linux will not work with
> systemd.
>


Apologies - - - - - but 'what' is "a musl compiled Linux"?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] etckeeper: was: Er, Not that way ? .Re: Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 1:01 AM Olaf Meeuwissen 
wrote:

>
> o1bigtenor writes:
>
> > On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 6:47 AM Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng <
> dng@lists.dyne.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> [... illustrating etckeeper commit messages ...]
> >
> >  Mr Olaf
> > (and the rest of devuan land)
> >
> > I found apt-cacher-ng to be a useful tool in tracking updates and in
> > minimizing my bandwidth.
> >
> > Would apt-cacher-ng work with etckeeper?
> > Suggestions please.
>
> The etckeeper utility hooks into a few select apt-get commands, those
> that upgrade, install and remove packages on your system.  It has
> nothing to do with updating whatever local APT repository caches you
> use.
>
> That is to say, the two are unrelated.
>
> You can continue using apt-cacher-ng to maintain your local APT
> repository caches and keep your individual systems up-to-date with
> apt-get (apt, aptitude, synaptic, etc.) as you do now.  Adding etckeeper
> to the mix would only create a historical record of what packages you
> have upgraded, installed and/or removed on your system.
>
>
> Thank you for your information
Using apt-cacher-ng and etckeeper sounds like something useful for here.
Appreciate your sharing!

Regards
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Re: [DNG] etckeeper: was: Er, Not that way ? .Re: Announcing Devuan 4.0: Chimaera!

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 6:47 AM Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng 
wrote:

> Hi wirelessduck,
>
> wirelessduck--- via Dng writes:
>
> >> On 20 Oct 2021, at 20:45, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I really looked into snapshotting but the etckeeper commit messages also
> >> list which packages changed, like so (after I "beautified" the logging a
> >> bit to suit my taste and needs)
> >>
> >>  commit dd9602a525e590f24ec19904248938e6ab76e999 (HEAD -> master)
> >>  Author: olaf 
> >>  Date:   Mon Oct 11 21:48:25 2021 +0900
> >>
> >>  Committing changes in /etc after APT run
> >>
> >>  Package changes:
> >>  - debconf 1.5.71 all
> >>  + debconf 1.5.71+deb10u1 all
> >>  - libgssapi-krb5-2 1.17-3+deb10u2 amd64
> >>  + libgssapi-krb5-2 1.17-3+deb10u3 amd64
> >>  - libk5crypto3 1.17-3+deb10u2 amd64
> >>  + libk5crypto3 1.17-3+deb10u3 amd64
> >>  - libkrb5-3 1.17-3+deb10u2 amd64
> >>  + libkrb5-3 1.17-3+deb10u3 amd64
> >>  - libkrb5support0 1.17-3+deb10u2 amd64
> >>  + libkrb5support0 1.17-3+deb10u3 amd64
> >>  - libmariadb3 1:10.3.29-0+deb10u1 amd64
> >>  + libmariadb3 1:10.3.31-0+deb10u1 amd64
> >>
> >> which gives me a chance to pinpoint any culprits and submit bug reports
> >> if necessary with detailed info on the changed packages.
> >
> > Is this formatting configured in etckeeper or gitconfig? I would like
> > to try and replicate. It looks very useful.
>
> TL;DR: in etckeeper.
>
> The etckeeper utility does a good job of collecting the package changes
> out-of-the-box but the exact output is slightly different from what I
> included above.  The out-of-the-box behaviour includes the output of
>
>   diff -U0 $before $after | egrep '^[-+]'
>
> where $before and $after are "files" with the output of
>
>   dpkg-query -W -f '${Status}\t${Package} ${Version}\n' | \
>   egrep '(ok installed|ok config-files)' | cut -f2,3
>
> I've tweaked that a bit to insert a space after the '^[-+]' and run the
> diff output through `sort -k2` so I get the before and after package
> info closer together.  I've also made a few very minor changes to start
> the message with a capital and capitalized APT.
>
> Without my changes, the above would have looked something like
>
>   commit dd9602a525e590f24ec19904248938e6ab76e999 (HEAD -> master)
>   Author: olaf 
>   Date:   Mon Oct 11 21:48:25 2021 +0900
>
>   committing changes in /etc after apt run
>
>   Package changes:
>   -debconf 1.5.71 all
>   +debconf 1.5.71+deb10u1 all
>   -libgssapi-krb5-2 1.17-3+deb10u2 amd64
>   +libgssapi-krb5-2 1.17-3+deb10u3 amd64
>   -libk5crypto3 1.17-3+deb10u2 amd64
>   -libkrb5-3 1.17-3+deb10u2 amd64
>   -libkrb5support0 1.17-3+deb10u2 amd64
>   +libk5crypto3 1.17-3+deb10u3 amd64
>   +libkrb5-3 1.17-3+deb10u3 amd64
>   +libkrb5support0 1.17-3+deb10u3 amd64
>   -libmariadb3 1:10.3.29-0+deb10u1 amd64
>   +libmariadb3 1:10.3.31-0+deb10u1 amd64
>
> BTW, the version in chimaera (and later) also includes a section that
> lists the packages with configuration changes and includes the command
> line invocation that triggered the changes.
>
> Oh, I've also made a few changes to record package changes if nothing
> below /etc has changed.
>
> Hope this helps,
>

 Mr Olaf
(and the rest of devuan land)

I found apt-cacher-ng to be a useful tool in tracking updates and in
minimizing my bandwidth.

Would apt-cacher-ng work with etckeeper?
Suggestions please.

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Review of documentation needed

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 4:51 PM tempforever  wrote:

> So, my previous test did confirm that Devuan Chimaera without D-Bus is
> still possible using the steps on dev1fanboy's documentation page.
> Note, I don't really have anything against dbus (yet), I'm just checking
> whether this is all still possible for documentation purposes.
> Also note, it may be *possible* to install some of these software
> packages that "depend" on dbus, without actually installing dbus... not
> sure what functionality would be lost though.  As far as adding new
> recommendations to this list, I have none.  Maybe someone else who
> actually uses a dbus-free Devuan can chime in.
>
> The following list is from the "D-Bus free software" link at
>
> https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/dbus-free-software.html
>
> Window managers:
> fluxbox: OK
> blackbox: OK
> openbox: tries to install dbus
> fvwm: OK
> fvwm-crystal: tries to install dbus
> icewm: OK
> metacity: tries to install dbus
> evilwm: OK
> windowmaker: Unable to locate package windowmaker
> mutter: tries to install dbus
> sawfish: OK
> icewm: OK
> dwm: OK
> i3: tries to install dbus
> wmaker: OK
>
> File Managers:
> xfe: tries to install dbus
> pcmanfm: tries to install dbus
> rox-filer: tries to install dbus
> mc: OK
> gentoo: tries to install dbus
> fdclone: OK
> s3dfm: OK
> tkdesk: OK
> ytree: OK
> vifm: OK
>
> Display managers:
> nodm: OK
> ldm: OK
> xdm: OK
> wdm: OK
>

LXQT: 

>
> Web browsers:
> midori: tries to install dbus
> surf: tries to install dbus
> dillo: OK
> links2: OK
> links: OK
> elinks: OK
> lynx: OK
> edbrowse: OK
> w3m: OK
>

Firefox-ESR:

>
> Music players:
> deadbeef: Package has no installation candidate
> cmus: OK
> cdcd: OK
> lxmusic: tries to install dbus
> randomplay: OK
>
> Media players:
> totem: tries to install dbus
> xine-ui: OK
> mplayer2: Package has no installation candidate
> mpv: OK
> melt: tries to install dbus
>
> IRC clients:
> weechat: OK
> irssi: OK
> ekg2-ui-gtk: Unable to locate package
> scrollz: OK
> loqui: OK
>
>
>
Hopefully not inappropriate asking (wry grin face!) - - - -

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Re: [DNG] [OT] Video cards on Linux (was Re: Information request re: wayland)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 5:22 AM hal  wrote:

>
>
> On 9/5/21 14:42, o1bigtenor wrote:
> 
> >
> > https://pastebin.com/NvUtaCnQ 
> >
> >
> > Hmmm - - - - the page shows for about 1/2 a second and then goes blank.
> > tried clicking on the individual sections - - - still no joy.
> >
> > So I destroyed the pastebin cookies in the browser and purged the
> history file of anything to do with pastebin.
> >
> > Sorry - - - no can read.
>>
>>
>> >
> > If you have houveau blacklisted then you pretty much are running the
> proprietary drivers.
> >
> > Are you driving a HDMI monitor?
> >
> > Thanks for the effort!!
>
> Hi,
> How very odd. I will email you the entire paste off-list. Yep, I am
> driving HDMI and Display Port. Here is the screen portion of my xorg.conf
>
> Section "Screen"
> # Removed Option "metamodes" "HDMI-0: 1920x1200 +320+0, DP-0.8:
> nvidia-auto-select +0+1200 {viewportin=2560x1600,
> viewportout=3456x2160+192+0}"
>  Identifier "Screen0"
>  Device "Device0"
>>
>>
>>  Monitor"Monitor0"
>  DefaultDepth24
>  Option "Stereo" "0"
>  Option "nvidiaXineramaInfoOrder" "DFP-1"
>  Option "metamodes" "HDMI-0: 1920x1200 +320+0, DP-0.8:
> 2560x1440 +0+1200"
>  Option "SLI" "Off"
>  Option "MultiGPU" "Off"
>  Option "BaseMosaic" "off"
>  SubSection "Display"
>  Depth   24
>  EndSubSection
> EndSection
>

Very interesting!!!

Reading the file the first couple things that caught my attention also
described
the why and wherefore for the differences.

1. you are running the proprietary drivers not nouveau
2. you are running the latest production brach driver series
(which I could not do because I'm still running a 570 card)
3. you are running only a single gpu
(Nvidia no longer supports running a multi-gpu setup - - - hasn't for
likely over 2 years)


Thank you for your time.

If only I were able to get either/and/or some combination of RX 570 and RX
460 s
running I would pull these nvidia boards in a heartbeat.

When I try to boot the computer with any combination of boards installed I
can't
seem to get the monitor to show anything. (That was with the amdgpu drivers
available - - - - maybe I was supposed to do something more - - - dunno!)

tia
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Re: [DNG] [OT] Video cards on Linux (was Re: Information request re: wayland)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 8:52 AM hal  wrote:

>
>
> On 9/3/21 06:24, o1bigtenor wrote:
> 
> > How did you get your 1050 Ti working under nouveau?
> > How many monitors/sizes are you driving off of it?
> >
> > This is the card that I'm fighting!!
> > Trying to drive 2 - 1920x1080 and 1 - 4k.
> > Its the 4k monitor that seems to cause the issues!!
> >
> > (Please pretty please - - - - do you have any ideas/suggestions!)
>
>
> Hopefully this pastebin helps. I didn't want to attach it to the list
> because this much text becomes impossible to read. Let me know if you need
> more info. I don't really know what else to include here.  Oh, I'm not sure
> why 'nouveau' is blacklisted -- I thought 'nouveau' was another name for
> the freeware build of the proprietary Nvidia driver but maybe I don't
> understand correctly.
>
> https://pastebin.com/NvUtaCnQ


Hmmm - - - - the page shows for about 1/2 a second and then goes blank.
tried clicking on the individual sections - - - still no joy.

So I destroyed the pastebin cookies in the browser and purged the history
file of anything to do with pastebin.

Sorry - - - no can read.

If you have houveau blacklisted then you pretty much are running the
proprietary drivers.

Are you driving a HDMI monitor?

Thanks for the effort!!

Regards
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Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License (upd)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 10:37 AM al3xu5  wrote:

> Sat, 4 Sep 2021 09:44:21 -0500 - o1bigtenor via Dng :
>
> > [...]
>
> > > > >And what use is a verbatim (or any other) license unless you have
> > > > >the financial resources to challenge those who might violate it.
> > >
> > > Hum... Many opensource projects are managed by small organizations or
> > > individuals, and are released with licenses such as Apache, BSD, MIT,
> > > Expat and many others: the authors certainly have no finance resources
> > > to pursue violations, and I doubt that others (the "holders" of these
> > > licenses) they do it for them.
> > >
> > > In this specific case, it is simply a question of using a license that
> > > tells people: know who is the author of this documentation, and that
> > > you can use it, and that if you want to redistribute then you have to
> > > indicate the author and you don't have to change the content...
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yes. The bulk of the feedback here indicates that this documentation
> > > > project is better off allowing distribution of modifications.
> > >
> > > So -- for my experience and knowledge -- good options could be:
> > >
> > > - GNU Verbatim Copying and Distribution
> > >
> > > which states:
> > >
> > > ~~~
> > > Copyright YEAR AUTHOR
> > >
> > > Permission is granted to make and distribute verbatim copies
> > > of this entire document without royalty provided the
> > > copyright notice and this permission notice are preserved.
> > > ~~~
> > >
> > > - Creative commons CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 International
> > >   <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/>
> > >
> > > which states:
> > >
> > > ~~~
> > > You are free to:
> > >
> > > Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
> > >
> > > The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the
> > > license terms.
> > >
> > > Under the following terms:
> > >
> > > Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to
> > > the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any
> > > reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor
> > > endorses you or your use.
> > >
> >
> > I would like to register my disagreement with some parts of this concept!
> >
> > >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>
> al3xu5
>
>
>> --
>
> Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design
>
> restrictions!
>
>
>> 
>
>
>> Public GPG/PGP key: 8FC2 3121 2803 86E9 F7D8  B624 DA50 835B 2624 A36B
>
> > > NonCommercial — You may not use the material for commercial
> > > purposes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>
> al3xu5
>
>
>> --
>
> Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and industrial design
>
> restrictions!
>
>
>> 
>
>
>> Public GPG/PGP key: 8FC2 3121 2803 86E9 F7D8  B624 DA50 835B 2624 A36B
>
> >
> > Most everything I do here is in some shape or way related to something
> > commercial!
> > I use this or I build that or I modify this that and the next thing to
> > either make something
> > happen or build it or whatever and I do hope to make money with this
> > stuff! Its how I
> > provide for myself. Perhaps you are independently wealthy and need
> > absolutely no
> > more to live even reasonably. I need to feed my hobbies some of which may
> > have the
> > potential to feed others well likely far before they contribute to
> > feeding me! This kind
> > of statement is quite upotian and severely limits a lot of stuff imo!
> > (Please note the imo
> > at the end!!!)
> >
> > >
> > > NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the
> > > material, you may not distribute the modified material.
> > >
> >
> > If correct attribution is practiced this is another developmental
> > hinderance.
> > If I can further improve your doc/build/whatever - - - - how is that
> > 'hurting/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>
> al3xu5
>
>
>> --
>
> Say NO to copy

Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 9:40 AM al3xu5  wrote:
https://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/forum-view.asp?fid=12

> Sat, 4 Sep 2021 07:17:11 -0500 - o1bigtenor via Dng :
>
> > On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 3:24 AM Steve Litt 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > o1bigtenor said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 06:19:31 -0500
> > >
> > > [...]
> >
> > - I
> > had to learn how to use xrandr so that I could set up the monitors so
> > they would give my desired configuration and that needs to be entered
>>
>>
>> 
>
> Enrico
>
> > EVERY time I restart the box!
> > I also like to use lots of desktops and
> > too many of the applications
> > are quite stupid so then I need to shuffle things around at EVERY
> > restart.
>
> Not sure what you are meaning here. If you run xrandr commands "manually"
> at every restart, then you shoud use a login script to do this.
>

Well - - - - I have at least two different configurations right now.
One with the 4k and one without.

>
> I have to use xrandr to adjust video output from my audio-video Linux box
> to a old LCD TV: I have a small login script to have xrandr setting up
> things at every login...


I've read about those - - - - just haven't found a good cogent guide to
creating
such. There are so many things that I'm trying to do that I worry about the
low
hanging fruit and what absolutely needs to get done. If I have an up time
of
6 months taking 3 minutes to type out 4 to 7 commands doesn't bug me. Now
when my uptime is measured in single digit hours - - - - - anything to do
with
login and setup bugs me!

Do you know of such a 'guide' (a how to on writing log in scripts. I'm
finding
that when I go looking for stuff that 90% of what the search engine drags
up
was current as of 2010 or earlier and I've been bitten enough times by
stuff
that's out dated - - - - don't need more of that joy!) ?

>
> Incidentally, I would like to share this two useful links:
> - modeline generator:
>   http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl
> - modeline database
> https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Modeline_Database
>
>
> > I can
> > not do most of that in about 30 to 40 minutes but it still a headache
> > (every cotton
> > picking time). Yes when I plug in the 4k monitor my uptime
> > shrinks - - -
> > the bet I"ve had in quite a few tries is 28 hours - - - - sometimes as
> > low as 45
> > minutes - - - it doesn't bother me so much that I need to reboot - - -
> > its the time
> > it takes to get things back to the way I want them - - - - that's the
> > pain. My computers
> > are 'tools' for me - - - - they are not a hidden galaxy where I go to
> > hide myself from
> > the world around me. So I like to do some sorta - - - for most folks
> > anyway
> > - -
> > unusual things - - - - I think that's my issue and not really anyone
> > else's!
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > So please - - - -if anyone knows something about taming this nouveau hdmi
> > issue
> > (I think that's what it is!!!), or how to get my mobo to talk to radeon
> > gpus I really
> > want to talk. (I also am open for questions on my setup but would prefer
> > not to
> > broadcast everything on the web - - - grin!).
>
> Premise: I have never used more than 1 monitor... And excuse me if this is
> of no interest for you.
>
> But, searching in the net (for "linux 4-monitor" or "linux multi-monitor"),
> it seems X can handle up to 16 monitors since years, either Nvidia or
> AMD, either proprietary or free drivers...
>
> Just in case you miss it, here below are some interesting links:
>
> How To Use Multiple and External Displays
> https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/use-multiple-external-displays-linux-ubuntu/
>
>

I gave ubuntu the heave ho when they chose to force updates one their
schedule.
Am finding that they also seem to think that their solutions always work -
- - - they
sure as crap didn't when I was looking for ideas for my system setup the
last time
I was digging (some time ago but Ubuntu's arrogance as only increased so I
now
mostly avoid them except where they do something well (kernel supply is one
interesting exception!).


>
> Quad-Monitor AMD/NVIDIA Linux
>
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=quad_monitor_linux=1


Outdated instructions - - - - nvidia sure as stink no longer supports
multi-gpu systems!
They want you to buy pro gear to do that - - - - have you checked the
pricing on that stuff.

>
>
> Trying Out The Modern Linux Desktops With 4 Monitors + AMD/NVIDIA Graphics
>
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux-quad-desktop=1
>
>

See previous.

>
> xorg - Using many monit

Re: [DNG] License for the DNG created software guide --> Proposal: DNG Verbatim Libre License (upd)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 6:09 AM al3xu5  wrote:

> Sat, 4 Sep 2021 04:14:12 -0400 - Steve Litt :
>
> > goli...@devuan.org said on Fri, 03 Sep 2021 11:18:43 -0500
> >
> > >Jaromil . . . please advise regarding the policy for using the Devuan
> > >trademark and DNG acronym on a license for a document compiled and
> > >written from comments on the DNG list by Steve Litt.
> > >
> > >My .02 . . .
> > >
> > >Whoa! Any license using the Devuan trademark would have to go through
> > >Dyne. Even licensing "DNG" could be debatable. Before any action is
> > >even considered, you'll need to pass it by Jaromil/Dyne.
>
> Just to clarify and avoid misunderstandings:
>
> - I know there are trademarks etc.
>
> - My proposal for one "DNG Verbatim Libre License" was, precisely, just a
> proposal...
>
> - I made the proposal saying "I suggest sometihing like"... So, the
>   proposed text was a "sample", where terms like "DNG" or "Devuan" and the
>   content text were, in fact, to be discuss (in case you were interested
>   in doing so)
>
> [...]
>
>
> > >And what use is a verbatim (or any other) license unless you have the
> > >financial resources to challenge those who might violate it.
>
> Hum... Many opensource projects are managed by small organizations or
> individuals, and are released with licenses such as Apache, BSD, MIT,
> Expat and many others: the authors certainly have no finance resources to
> pursue violations, and I doubt that others (the "holders" of these
> licenses) they do it for them.
>
> In this specific case, it is simply a question of using a license that
> tells people: know who is the author of this documentation, and that you
> can use it, and that if you want to redistribute then you have to indicate
> the author and you don't have to change the content...
>
>
> > Yes. The bulk of the feedback here indicates that this documentation
> > project is better off allowing distribution of modifications.
>
> So -- for my experience and knowledge -- good options could be:
>
> - GNU Verbatim Copying and Distribution
>
> which states:
>
> ~~~
> Copyright YEAR AUTHOR
>
> Permission is granted to make and distribute verbatim copies
> of this entire document without royalty provided the
> copyright notice and this permission notice are preserved.
> ~~~
>
> - Creative commons CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 International
>   
>
> which states:
>
> ~~~
> You are free to:
>
> Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
>
> The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the
> license terms.
>
> Under the following terms:
>
> Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the
> license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any
> reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor
> endorses you or your use.
>

I would like to register my disagreement with some parts of this concept!

>
> NonCommercial — You may not use the material for commercial purposes.
>

Most everything I do here is in some shape or way related to something
commercial!
I use this or I build that or I modify this that and the next thing to
either make something
happen or build it or whatever and I do hope to make money with this stuff!
Its how I
provide for myself. Perhaps you are independently wealthy and need
absolutely no
more to live even reasonably. I need to feed my hobbies some of which may
have the
potential to feed others well likely far before they contribute to feeding
me! This kind
of statement is quite upotian and severely limits a lot of stuff imo!
(Please note the imo
at the end!!!)

>
> NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material,
> you may not distribute the modified material.
>

If correct attribution is practiced this is another developmental
hinderance.
If I can further improve your doc/build/whatever - - - - how is that
'hurting/
injuring' you. Now if your idea is commercial then you can say this but if
it
truly is open source why would you want to hinder someone from improving
your stuff. Practically - - - - - I did it all the time in the trades - - -
its quite
normal. Some cheap azzed company makes something that with some minor
tweaks works much better. Why wouldn't I get such done? To respect
someone's
'ideas'? Blarney - - - - after I've bought the piece I should be allowed to
improve
it - - - always supposing that one does know something of what one is
doing.
(Companies are generally run by accountants or lawyers with the aim of
making
a profit - - - - making a quality product is most often almost invisible on
the list
its so far down!)

>
> No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or
> technological measures that legally restrict others from doing
> anything the license permits.
> ~~~
>
> or any other similar verbatim license.
>
>
> > >Carving it into a stone tablet might be the best method of pristine
> > 

Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 3:24 AM Steve Litt  wrote:

> o1bigtenor said on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 06:19:31 -0500
>
> >as I plug the 5th monitor (4k) in I've got uptime down to less than 28
> >hours.
>
> Duude!!!
>
> I hereby resign from the conversation. All of my experience is with one
> monitor of less than 4k capabilities. I can't even begin to understand
> the hoops you'd need to jump through to get five monitors, of different
> resolutions, running. When you get it running you should write a
> detailed article for one of the Linux trade magazines, because that
> will be a real accomplishment.
>
>
It was many years ago, likely in the early 2000s that I ran into an article
regards knowledge workers and their screen real estate. The conclusion
was that there was a direct connection between the worker's effectiveness
and their screen real estate.
I had bought a system in 1999 where I was fortunate enough to get a
1600x1200 crt monitor at a pretty good, for then, price. Really liked
having
the space. (At the time I used spreadsheets for my business record keeping
-
- - most call it accounting but that it ain't! - - - with the sheets having
over 250
columns (max was 256 columns at the time!) so being able to see more
columns
meant that I could work faster - - - - a good thing!!!
When I put together my present system (end 2011 very beginning of 2012) I
gave myself a treat and knowing that also thought of getting into some
fairly computationally intensive calculations (lol - - - still working on
that)
chose to drop in 3 gpus and set up 4 24" monitors. The cash spent was
'interesting' to say the least! (The shop that assembled the system - - -a
way to get a pretty good warranty - - - - nicknamed it the beast - - -
there weren't
too many 64 GB RAM systems around in 2012!!)
Started by using the proprietary drivers from nvidia. At that time there
was
support from nvidia for multi-gpu AND multi-monitor usage. I think it was
some time in later 2015 when I went to nouveau. Note that it was AFTER
all of this that Linus gave his all too appropriate salute to nvidia If
I had
only known - - - - but that salute was already 4 years AFTER this system
happened.
In early 2020 I had 2 gpus die in a fairly short time. I had set up the
system
for maximum cooling and the noctua fans (some not all) happened only after
the original ones died. From what I know now I really don't like most of
the
fans installed today - - - - too noisy, not enough air movement and then
cost
too much and far too many have stupid blinky lights or other such rot that
- - - - well - - - for me its for kid's toys - - - not 'work tools!!'. So I
needed to
replace at least one gpu and bought another nvidia because that was what
was already in the box. Even the 'old card(s) had a hdmi port and the new
card (1050 Ti) was rated for hdmi2.0b according to the literature when I
ordered it. I ordered it because it was very reasonable and that it did
have 3 (!!!)
available ports (hdmi, dp (1.4), and DVI - - - - the 4 monitors are all DVI
- - - a
very short lived option imo!).
It may be difficult to believe for those that have limited themselves to
the use
of only one monitor but I found myself hampered by my screen real estate on
my system as I found myself starting to get into some CAD and other design
usage. So I first bought a 4k TV that seemed to have the right specs - - -
that
was a joke and I chose to buy a fairly reasonable 4k monitor. That's when
the
'fun' with hdmi started. I am not sure exactly when things started changing
but I was getting up times in the many month (greater than 4 for sure) on a
regular basis. IIRC (and I may not be) that was with Debian Buster and a
4.9.x kernel yet. Adding the 4k monitor quite changed that. Understand - -
- I
had to learn how to use xrandr so that I could set up the monitors so they
would give my desired configuration and that needs to be entered EVERY time
I restart the box! I also like to use lots of desktops and too many of the
applications
are quite stupid so then I need to shuffle things around at EVERY restart.
I can
not do most of that in about 30 to 40 minutes but it still a headache
(every cotton
picking time). Yes when I plug in the 4k monitor my uptime
shrinks - - -
the bet I"ve had in quite a few tries is 28 hours - - - - sometimes as low
as 45
minutes - - - it doesn't bother me so much that I need to reboot - - - its
the time
it takes to get things back to the way I want them - - - - that's the pain.
My computers
are 'tools' for me - - - - they are not a hidden galaxy where I go to hide
myself from
the world around me. So I like to do some sorta - - - for most folks anyway
- -
unusual things - - - - I think that's my issue and not really anyone
else's!

I've tried remove the nvidia boards and installing a single Radeon 570 (I
thing
it was) tried with a pair of RX 460s and I can't get the system to boot
using either
option. My guess is that the mobo showed up at the beginning of the PCI3.0

Re: [DNG] [OT] Video cards on Linux (was Re: Information request re: wayland)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 5:31 AM hal  wrote:

> On 9/3/21 02:09, Steve Litt wrote:
> > spiralofhope said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:33:35 -0700
> >
> >> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500
> >> o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
> >>
> >>> He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function,
> >>> was really not worth running.
> >>
> >> I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen
> >> tearing when watching videos.  I don't know if that's been implemented
> >> yet though.
> >
> > When I want to eliminate screen tearing in any situation, I take out
> > the nVidia and put in a Radeon.
> >
>
> The GPU companies have been living the thug life for years. First, price
> increase was blamed on bitcoin, then the pandemic, then
> shipping/boat-stuck-in-canal... it all seems a little too convenient to
> argue a 300% price increase is still due to any one/all of these.
>
> Luckily (or un-luckily?) I have a 1050ti that I bought before prices went
> ham. A 1070ti (released in 2017!) refurb is still going for well over $500
> on Newegg ffs...
>

How did you get your 1050 Ti working under nouveau?
How many monitors/sizes are you driving off of it?

This is the card that I'm fighting!!
Trying to drive 2 - 1920x1080 and 1 - 4k.
Its the 4k monitor that seems to cause the issues!!

(Please pretty please - - - - do you have any ideas/suggestions!)

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Information request re: wayland

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 2:09 AM Steve Litt  wrote:

> spiralofhope said on Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:33:35 -0700
>
> >On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 14:16:58 -0500
> >o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
> >
> >> He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function,
> >> was really not worth running.
> >
> >I've been interested in it because of promises of eliminating screen
> >tearing when watching videos.  I don't know if that's been implemented
> >yet though.
>
> When I want to eliminate screen tearing in any situation, I take out
> the nVidia and put in a Radeon.
>
>  I had this system built in early 2012.
I've tried using both a Radeon 570 and a pair of 460s.
Neither time was I able to get the system up.
There is nothing I would like better than to get rid of nouveau - - - as
soon
as I plug the 5th monitor (4k) in I've got uptime down to less than 28
hours.
More commonly the uptime is under 12 hours and as it takes about 35  to 40
minutes to set everything back up that's just far too much time wasted.

If anyone can help me figure out why the pair of 460s won't work (think the
570
needs a newer pci implementation but dunno) I would love to hear it

(I have - - I think -- - - just thrown in the towel on trying to compile a
kernel with
some specific commands to enable nouveau debugging - - - another 5 or 6
hours down the tubes. The 1050 Ti card is from 2016 and one would think
that
it would be fully supported some 4 years later - - - - but not so! - - -
yes I'm
grumpy - - - - far too much time poured down a hole with nothing to show
for
it - - - I use these systems - - - - they are not somewhere I want to live
on!!)

Thanking one and all for their ideas and encouragement
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[DNG] Information request re: wayland

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

My long time mentor in things Linux (described himself as a fossil) is no
longer with us. (He suggested that I strongly consider using Devuan which I
now have on one system.)
He was of the opinion that Wayland - - - whatever its exact function, was
really not worth running.
Yet it is being touted as the X11 replacement and is now supposedly capable
of handling both multi-gpu and multi-monitor setups.

What say you?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Devuan --> Debian?

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 12:42 PM Antony Stone <
antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it> wrote:

> On Thursday 19 August 2021 at 18:53:51, Hendrik Boom wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 01:52:12PM +0200, Antony Stone wrote:
> > >
> > > I've purged eudev and now I'm installing FreeSwitch :)
> > >
> > > Thanks for the pointer - looks like this will get me where I wanted to
> > > be.
> >
> > Do I understand that you didn't switch to Debian but just installed a
> > fake systemd for FreeSwitch to play with?
>
> Correct - although see my subsequent email saying that if you can avoid
> installing "systemd" and instead install "the package that depends on
> systemd", things are a lot simpler :)
>
> > Or did you find a way to switch from Devuan to Debian?
>
> No, this did what I wanted and it's a *far* neater solution.
>
> I didn't want to end up with Debian anyway - the only purpose was to be
> able
> to install FreeSwitch, find out how much of it really depended on systemd,
> and
> then work out how to get the rest of it working on Devuan.
>
> This way was quick, pretty easy, and very educational :)
>
>
>
Hmm - - - very very interesting!!

I was eyeing 'freeswitch' trying to get into an open source managed switch.

Looking at buying a used switch and then installing whatevers to get what I
would like.

Is this what you're working on - - -sorta?

Verry (sic) curious - - - please?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] a how to question (project(s) related)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Funny guy - - - -

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 10:36 AM tito via Dng  wrote:

> On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 09:43:46 -0500
> o1bigtenor via Dng  wrote:
>
> > Greetings
> >
> > I'm finding myself occasionally drowning in information resulting in me
> > trying to improve the connection between what I'm working on AND the
> > information that I'm collecting.
> >
> > An example (followed by some questions).
> >
> > I'm into gardening/raising my own food (simplified for here!!).
> >
> > Create a directory 'gardening' .
> >
> > Inside 'gardening' notes for a particular year (each year in its own
> > directory).
> > Also in 'gardening' are directories for various crops 'potatoes'/'malus'
> > (easier to say apples but I'm
> > including pears and and ).
> > 'Potatoes' includes files (notes) some of which needs to be taken from
> > something like a
> >diary/journal (rednotebook is my preferred tool at this point).
> > 'Potatoes' includes directories like specific
> > varieties/diseases/pests/fertilization/remedies.
> > Further information like cooking/techniques for/health related/other uses
> > (think distilling) as a
> >further level.
> >
> > This is all found in one project - - - - and I have projects - - maybe
> too
> > many but things are what they are.
> >
> > I'm trying to find a way of connecting things.
> >
> > So when I find an idea that I can use for electronic control on movement
> > that I can link that to irrigation and then back to the
> > 'shrubs/trees/plants'.
> >
> > I would rather NOT have 10 different copies of the same information
> stored
> > - - - wastes space - - - but I'm finding that looking for information
> that
> > sometimes I have what I'm found but it was/is connected to a very
> different
> > project.
> >
> > Dig some digging and hard links to directories are a no no (!) -
> -
> > like forbidden.
> >
> > I could see hard links being useful for what I want where soft links are
> > going to break (have had the joy of breaking some myself and causing
> myself
> > all kinds of joy in the process).
>
> Hi,
> I was going to propose file systems with hard and soft links
> (which BTW break only if you yourself break them)
> but as they are taboo the only other and far superior
> system is to use paper and ink. This system showed resilience,
> ease of use and hardware independence for the last 4000 years.
> In conjunction with a physiological process better known as
> learning which transforms your brain in the primary
> storage for pointers to the information stored in
> your papyrus rolls and allows endless recombination
> of the inputted information to achieve what is called progress
> through try and error (let's see what happens if principle).
> In the end this process will make you a expert in the field of your
> choice and your papyrus rolls will be saved in libraries
> for the future generations to study (unless they use
> only wikipedia and instead of studying they just
> print them out wasting loads of paper with no
> result at all).


As I manage to collect some 25 to 40 GB of pdfs and notes in an
'normal' year paper lost its appeal some 30 years ago.
I would likely need to hire a couple people just to store maintain and
index the information - - - if you're paying I'll start tomorrow.

>
> Ciao,
> Tito
>
> P.S.: I suggest for urban gardening: onions, peppers and cucumbers
> they grow in almost every condition.
> Tomatoes are very sensible to lots of diseases and lost their taste
> long time ago in the process to be made solid red.
> With avocado trees in pots I got mixed results,
> with mango trees in pots this year is the first time
> there is a good chance of eating some mangos.
>

 Don't know where you got the information that I'm urban but I can tell
you that tomatoes plucked ripe from the vine - - - they have flavor and
task quite different to what you purchase in your grocery - - - - I call
those 'little rocks' - - - bugs my wife a lot but I really don't like them.
Taste too much like straight cellulose

Please do let me know if you're up for funding the needed help - - -
I would think that some $250k a year for the next 25 years should do
nicely.

Regards
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[DNG] a how to question (project(s) related)

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

I'm finding myself occasionally drowning in information resulting in me
trying to improve the connection between what I'm working on AND the
information that I'm collecting.

An example (followed by some questions).

I'm into gardening/raising my own food (simplified for here!!).

Create a directory 'gardening' .

Inside 'gardening' notes for a particular year (each year in its own
directory).
Also in 'gardening' are directories for various crops 'potatoes'/'malus'
(easier to say apples but I'm
including pears and and ).
'Potatoes' includes files (notes) some of which needs to be taken from
something like a
   diary/journal (rednotebook is my preferred tool at this point).
'Potatoes' includes directories like specific
varieties/diseases/pests/fertilization/remedies.
Further information like cooking/techniques for/health related/other uses
(think distilling) as a
   further level.

This is all found in one project - - - - and I have projects - - maybe too
many but things are what they are.

I'm trying to find a way of connecting things.

So when I find an idea that I can use for electronic control on movement
that I can link that to irrigation and then back to the
'shrubs/trees/plants'.

I would rather NOT have 10 different copies of the same information stored
- - - wastes space - - - but I'm finding that looking for information that
sometimes I have what I'm found but it was/is connected to a very different
project.

Dig some digging and hard links to directories are a no no (!) - -
like forbidden.

I could see hard links being useful for what I want where soft links are
going to break (have had the joy of breaking some myself and causing myself
all kinds of joy in the process).

Any ideas out there on how to find such an ecosystem?

(I don't think a RDMS is what I want because then how does one store
directories inside the topic - - - its almost like a RDMS that has a system
inside it might do - - - argh - - - I think I'm getting more confused
rather than less in trying to set up something - - - argh!!)

TIA
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[DNG] Advice sought on kernel upgrade

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

Greetings

I am running a fairly old rig on debian testing with 2 gpus and want to run
5 monitors.
The 5th is hdmi connected and is a 4k monitor with the other 4 all being
1920x1080.
After I installed the 4k monitor I had regular graphics sub-system freezes
(won't come out of suspend typically) with a normal being a system reboot
at least once every 24 hours.
I filed a bug report. Have subsequently unplugged the 4k monitor - - - - a
lot of headache rebooting and setting up the machine at least 1x per day.

Recommendation is to download and install even a 5.14 (still in beta)
kernel.

The newest kernel (changed just yesterday) for debian in debian
experimental is a 5.13.?? version.

Dunno if I want to try a beta kernel (sorta scared to in fact).

Suggestions from y'all?
(Y'all, or at least quite a number of you, have a lot more experience at
this than I do.)

Please advise.
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Re: [DNG] Microsoft: Really?

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 9:57 PM Mark Rousell 
wrote:

> On 12/08/2021 03:49, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> Check out this article:
> https://www.computerworld.com/article/3628169/windows-365-costs-how-much.html
>
> Windows 365...
>
> So let me get this straight:
>
> [...]
>
> Of course the real effect of this is that Mocrosoft takes possession of
> every single bit of your computing experience, making it extremely hard
> for you to ever escape.
>
> Yup, all that and you still need some sort of computing device to connect
> to their cloud service.
>

No mention of the added availability for any taxation service to 'really'
check out everything that a
business is doing - - - you know - - - just to 'make sure' that everything
is legit! (Don't forget you'll
get to pay for this added service too!)

I'm worried about using a web hosting service - - - - this offering - - - -
- over my dead body!

My present computer - - - wasn't cheap to setup some 9.5 years ago but its
stats would still
blow the doors off that offering!
Oh well - - -- the sheeple will 'love' the convenience
The desire for cheap is going to destroy our society (if it hasn't
already!!!).

Regards
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Re: [DNG] Fwd: display manager problems

[o1bigtenor via Dng]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 4:33 AM Olaf Meeuwissen 
wrote:

> HI,
>
> o1bigtenor via Dng writes:
>
> > -- Forwarded message -
> > From: o1bigtenor 
> > Date: Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 9:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DNG] display manager problems
> > To: Olaf Meeuwissen 
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 8:24 PM Olaf Meeuwissen <
> paddy-h...@member.fsf.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> o1bigtenor writes:
> >>
> >> > On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:27 PM Olaf Meeuwissen <
> >> paddy-h...@member.fsf.org>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >>
> >> >> o1bigtenor via Dng writes:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Greetings
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I've been using lxdm for my display manager.
> >> >> > Yesterday evening after returning to my machine after supper the
> display
> >> >> > wouldn't move out of sleep mode and I found this (see next)  in
> >> >> >  /var/log/lightdm/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > [+101478.18s] DEBUG: Got signal 15 from process 1
> >> >> > [...snip...]
> >> >> >
> >> >> > (Any idea what process 1 might be or how I can find out?)
> >> >>
> >> >> Your init.  Assuming you're using Devuan, that could come from any
> ofdpkg -S /sbin/init
> >> >
> >> > Thanks Mr Olaf
> >> >
> >> > Alas - - - this machine is not yet on Devuan.
> >> >
> >> > So on Debian testing that init would be systemd - - - yes ?
> >>
> >> If your running a recent Debian version then yes, but why don't you
> >> check for yourself using the command-lines I added to my previous mail?
> >> That works a lot better then asking me to look into my crystal ball ;-)
> >>
> >> Hmm - - - - that's very interesting - - -
> >
> >  #  cat /proc/1/cmdline | tr '\0' ' '
> > /sbin/init root@debianbase:~#
>
> That's confirming that your PID 1 is indeed /sbin/init.
>
> > yet there is systemd all over most everything else.
> >
> > Not sure what the above means nor signifies.
>
> Next, `dpkg -S /sbin/init` will tell you which package provides it.
> And given your other information, I expect that to be systemd.
>
>  # dpkg -S /sbin/init
systemd-sysv: /sbin/init

was the result.

What I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is the fact
that systemd somehow shut down or better couldn't bring lightdm
back up after a system 'suspend'.  I'm smelling a very stinky rat!!!

Thanks for the assistance.

Regards
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