Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[Bill Johnson]

Roy, I owned and will soon have Kpa1500.  Yes power will drop if heat becomes 
an issue and you will fault.  The amp logs the condition when it faults.

Have a great day,
Bill J


From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on 
behalf of Roy Morris, Jr. via Elecraft 
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 2:36:52 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

Noone has responded to my previous inquiry about the KPA1500 power drop-off due 
to heat.  I would like to know if the KPA1500 power output actually drops off 
due to heat build-up or because the SWR display was erroneously showing a power 
drop before it was fixed.  Thanks,  Roy Morris W4WFB
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Jim Shepherd]

Just get a weekly delivery of a large container of liquid nitrogen and rig
up a way to spray it on the  heatsinks... It can be very quiet, it has a
large temperature difference, so it will be efficient, and it may drive the
chips into superconducting status which will further improve the efficiency.

Jim  W6US
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[Roy Morris, Jr. via Elecraft]

Noone has responded to my previous inquiry about the KPA1500 power drop-off due 
to heat.  I would like to know if the KPA1500 power output actually drops off 
due to heat build-up or because the SWR display was erroneously showing a power 
drop before it was fixed.  Thanks,  Roy Morris W4WFB
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Edward R Cole]

Frankly I agree with Bob-K4TAX:

If you ever have chance to visit the sound booth at either a 
broadcast station or recording studio, note the use of acoustic tile.


The Super-Contest station of KL7RA (sk) is lined with acoustic tile 
and you note immediately how quiet the room sounds (even with radios 
turned off).  Not sure how many of you knew Rich Strand but he was a 
radio astronomy consultant to NASA, flying world-wide to "fix" things 
at remote dish sites (thus his call sign).


Since I had also worked for NASA at Goldstone and at JPL, Rich and I 
had many enjoyable conversations.



73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[WILLIE BABER]

I imagine that if enough heat can be removed fast enough KPA1500 would run 
key-down forever at 1500 watts output.  That is why fan levels 4 and 5 are so 
loud, to give those five minutes on (and take five minutes off) without the 
amplifier overheating and forcing a hard fault.  Hard faults force KPA1500 into 
standby, to protect itself.  

If you generate excessive forward power the amp will attenuate the excessive 
power and warn you with a yellow LED.  If you continue to demand excessive 
power then you will get a hard fault and what sounds like a scream, along with 
a red LED.  This must mean STOP!

"Dave, Dave.  What are you doing Dave?"

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Tue, 6/5/18, Walter Underwood  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue
 To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
 Date: Tuesday, June 5, 2018, 1:01 AM
 
 I would recommend reading the
 specs. As I remember, it is ICAS, five minutes on, five
 minutes off. But you should check for yourself.
 
 wunder
 K6WRU
 Walter Underwood
 CM87wj
 http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my
 blog)
 
 > On Jun 4, 2018,
 at 5:06 PM, Paul Baldock 
 wrote:
 > 
 > Can the
 KPA1500 run brick down 100% duty cycle at 1500W while
 maintaining the temperature in a safe range? Anybody tried
 it?
 > 
 > - Paul
 > 
 >
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Walter Underwood]

I would recommend reading the specs. As I remember, it is ICAS, five minutes 
on, five minutes off. But you should check for yourself.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jun 4, 2018, at 5:06 PM, Paul Baldock  wrote:
> 
> Can the KPA1500 run brick down 100% duty cycle at 1500W while maintaining the 
> temperature in a safe range? Anybody tried it?
> 
> - Paul
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

Oh, I was just reminded of an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  I 
think that ratio is 16 to 1. Only issue is look carefully at the application 
and plan accordingly or spend a lot of time and money trying to fix it.
Mel, K6KBE

  From: Jim Brown 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 4:19 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue
   
That's fine if cost is no object. Acoustics is part of the problem -- 
ignore it at your peril. :)

73, Jim K9YC

On 6/4/2018 3:06 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
> While I appreciate all of the sound proofing suggestions, the old rule keeps 
> coming back.: " Stop the source as much possible FIRST."  I hate patches..
> Mel, K6KBE


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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[Roy Morris, Jr. via Elecraft]

Does the KPA1500 drive power output actually drop off due to heat build-up or 
because the SWR display was erroneous before it was fixed.  Thanks,  Roy Morris 
 W4WFB
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Paul Baldock]

Can the KPA1500 run brick down 100% duty cycle at 1500W while 
maintaining the temperature in a safe range? Anybody tried it?


- Paul

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

A properly damped acoustic environment will enhance the SSB voice on the 
air.  While a poor acoustic environment will sound like crap, and no 
amount of EQ , processing or microphone will correct the undesirable 
artifacts. Give some thoughts to improving your radio room 
acoustics.   Even a drape hanging on a wall or doorway makes a 
difference.  And if you have a window, close the drapes to make an 
improvement reducing reflections from the glass.   It helps on receiving 
as well by reducing reflections {just like SWR} making for less 
fatiguing listening.


73

Bob, K4TAX



On 6/4/2018 6:17 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
That's fine if cost is no object. Acoustics is part of the problem -- 
ignore it at your peril. :)


73, Jim K9YC

On 6/4/2018 3:06 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
While I appreciate all of the sound proofing suggestions, the old 
rule keeps coming back.: " Stop the source as much possible FIRST."  
I hate patches..

Mel, K6KBE



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Jim Brown]

That's fine if cost is no object. Acoustics is part of the problem -- 
ignore it at your peril. :)


73, Jim K9YC

On 6/4/2018 3:06 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

While I appreciate all of the sound proofing suggestions, the old rule keeps coming 
back.: " Stop the source as much possible FIRST."  I hate patches..
Mel, K6KBE



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

While I appreciate all of the sound proofing suggestions, the old rule keeps 
coming back.: " Stop the source as much possible FIRST."  I hate patches..
Mel, K6KBE

  From: Bob McGraw K4TAX 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 2:20 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue
   
One of my favorite methods of sound treatment is the products in the 
link following: http://www.sonex-online.com/Pro%20Audio.htm

There are many other products, and many individuals use their own 
creative means to be effective in sound absorption.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 6/4/2018 1:00 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 6/4/2018 8:34 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> Room acoustics play a big part of the "how loud" factor. Absorptive 
>> materials applied to the walls an ceiling of a room, specially small 
>> rooms,  do reduce the build up of sound / noise emitted from fans and 
>> blowers.
>
> YES! This is excellent advice. Indeed, the first place to put 
> absorptive material is on wall surfaces around the amp, treating other 
> wall surfaces can also help a lot. Hard surfaces contain the sound, 
> causing it to bounce around the room. Soft surfaces absorb the sound, 
> causing it to die out more quickly.
>
> Mechanical coupling of vibration to the desk increases the audibility 
> of noise, so it can also help to isolate the amp from the shelf it is 
> sitting on.
>
> Fan noise on the transmitted signal can be minimized in several ways, 
> all of which are pretty simple.
>
> First, keep the mic close to your mouth -- sound falls off by 6dB per 
> doubling of distance. Boom mics, like the CM500, are great for this. 
> For best sound quality, I try to keep the mic an inch or two above and 
> to the side of my mouth. The principle is to maximize speech and 
> minimize noise -- a simple signal to noise problem.
>
> Second, don't turn mic gain up higher than needed, and don't overdo 
> compression. This is the primary cause of excessive noise on 
> transmitted signals.
>
> Third, set TXEQ to emphasize the speech range and de-emphasize other 
> sound. My guideline EQ settings do this -- max cut of the three lower 
> bands, 6 dB cut of the fourth band (400 Hz), and then get reports from 
> a careful listener.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

One of my favorite methods of sound treatment is the products in the 
link following: http://www.sonex-online.com/Pro%20Audio.htm


There are many other products, and many individuals use their own 
creative means to be effective in sound absorption.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 6/4/2018 1:00 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 6/4/2018 8:34 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
Room acoustics play a big part of the "how loud" factor. Absorptive 
materials applied to the walls an ceiling of a room, specially small 
rooms,  do reduce the build up of sound / noise emitted from fans and 
blowers.


YES! This is excellent advice. Indeed, the first place to put 
absorptive material is on wall surfaces around the amp, treating other 
wall surfaces can also help a lot. Hard surfaces contain the sound, 
causing it to bounce around the room. Soft surfaces absorb the sound, 
causing it to die out more quickly.


Mechanical coupling of vibration to the desk increases the audibility 
of noise, so it can also help to isolate the amp from the shelf it is 
sitting on.


Fan noise on the transmitted signal can be minimized in several ways, 
all of which are pretty simple.


First, keep the mic close to your mouth -- sound falls off by 6dB per 
doubling of distance. Boom mics, like the CM500, are great for this. 
For best sound quality, I try to keep the mic an inch or two above and 
to the side of my mouth. The principle is to maximize speech and 
minimize noise -- a simple signal to noise problem.


Second, don't turn mic gain up higher than needed, and don't overdo 
compression. This is the primary cause of excessive noise on 
transmitted signals.


Third, set TXEQ to emphasize the speech range and de-emphasize other 
sound. My guideline EQ settings do this -- max cut of the three lower 
bands, 6 dB cut of the fourth band (400 Hz), and then get reports from 
a careful listener.


73, Jim K9YC




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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Signals attenuated in OPER

[Tom Schaefer]

For some reason, when I switch to operate, signals are significantly 
attenuated. I know there is an attenuator if reflected power is high but this 
is just from a fresh start. 

What am I doing wrong?

Tom NY4I


Principal Solutions Architect
Better Software Solutions, Inc. 
727-437-2771
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Jim Brown]

On 6/4/2018 8:34 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
Room acoustics play a big part of the "how loud" factor. Absorptive 
materials applied to the walls an ceiling of a room, specially small 
rooms,  do reduce the build up of sound / noise emitted from fans and 
blowers.


YES! This is excellent advice. Indeed, the first place to put absorptive 
material is on wall surfaces around the amp, treating other wall 
surfaces can also help a lot. Hard surfaces contain the sound, causing 
it to bounce around the room. Soft surfaces absorb the sound, causing it 
to die out more quickly.


Mechanical coupling of vibration to the desk increases the audibility of 
noise, so it can also help to isolate the amp from the shelf it is 
sitting on.


Fan noise on the transmitted signal can be minimized in several ways, 
all of which are pretty simple.


First, keep the mic close to your mouth -- sound falls off by 6dB per 
doubling of distance. Boom mics, like the CM500, are great for this. For 
best sound quality, I try to keep the mic an inch or two above and to 
the side of my mouth. The principle is to maximize speech and minimize 
noise -- a simple signal to noise problem.


Second, don't turn mic gain up higher than needed, and don't overdo 
compression. This is the primary cause of excessive noise on transmitted 
signals.


Third, set TXEQ to emphasize the speech range and de-emphasize other 
sound. My guideline EQ settings do this -- max cut of the three lower 
bands, 6 dB cut of the fourth band (400 Hz), and then get reports from a 
careful listener.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise

[David Gilbert]

Roughly speaking, both an i7 CPU and a GTX 1070 GPU have power 
dissipation ratings 150 watts or less, making them each about an order 
of magnitude less than the likely dissipation in the KPA1500. I actually 
do like the idea of liquid cooling since it's efficient and flexible if 
designed properly, but it uses much more space ... the liquid tubes 
alone guarantee that and if you want quiet the radiator is much larger.  
I don't think that weight is the real issue here ... space certainly is, 
though.  Liquid cooling for the KPA1500 would be unrealistic on a 
commercial basis for a small amp.


But if you extract the heat via liquid cooling and transfer it to a 
large enough fan-cooled heat dissipator with larger and slower running 
fans, you can make the noise almost imperceptible.  I have liquid CPU 
cooling on my desktop computer and I can't even hear the two CPU fans 
over the relatively quiet case and power supply fans.


73,
Dave   AB7E


On 6/3/2018 6:11 AM, Drew AF2Z wrote:
There are liquid cooling systems available for CPUs and graphics 
cards, used by gamers and overclockers. Have no idea how this would 
compare to cooling a 1500 watt RF power amplifier but probably more 
analogous than an airplane engine.


73,
Drew
AF2Z


On 06/02/18 17:09, Dauer, Edward wrote:


I have been following this thread with interest because I have a 
KPA1500 on order, and I have very limited flexibility as to where the 
RF deck can go compared to where I will have to sit.


Don's video was very well done and a great help in understanding the 
realities.


I know zero about thermodynamics, and so wanted only to say thanks to 
everyone who is contributing ideas, and to make but two comments.


First, as to water cooling, I suspect it would be a huge weight 
penalty to get the cooling fluid everywhere it needs to be.  So far 
as I know there is only one reciprocating engine made for aircraft 
that has a water jacket.  (There might be others nowadays - I haven't 
owned an airplane for some years.)  The reasons others don't are 
reliability, safety, complexity, and - mostly - weight.  Second, 
isn't this largely a contest-operating issue?   I believe we are 
still governed by the rule that we may use only that amount of power 
necessary for the communication.    I contest too, so I'll face the 
problem on those occasions, but not for casual ragchews.  I plan to 
make some graphs of when in terms of time, power, mode and band the 
fans on mine kick up a notch, and use it as a general operating 
guideline if I need to.


Ted, KN1CBR




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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Room acoustics play a big part of the "how loud" factor. Absorptive 
materials applied to the walls an ceiling of a room, specially small 
rooms,  do reduce the build up of sound / noise emitted from fans and 
blowers.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 6/4/2018 10:04 AM, Richard Thorne wrote:

Don,

Thanks for the updated information.  It's quite helpful.

For those of you that don't think that fan noise is a potential 
problem, you need to understand my point of view on this.


I've tried very hard to get a good clean noise free signal to my 
speaker or head phones..  This starts with a good antenna system 
followed by a good ground system and chokes as needed to reduce any 
induced noise into the system.  i still have work do in this area.


It doesn't make much sense to get the above done, only to have the 
audio portion of the signal interfered with.


So before I lay down significant $ for another device, I want to find 
out all the pro's and con's for that device so I don't later regret 
the decision.


In my case I'm not interested in getting a set of headphones (that 
includes a boom mic) that clamps on to my head that causes 
discomfort.  If I'm going to use a set of headphones it will continue 
to be the Yamaha CM-500.  The mic is outstanding and it's the most 
comfortable headset I've ever used.  I use the headset for cw and ssb, 
but I prefer to use my external speakers for RTTY with the volume low.


While I'm not all that interested in remoting the amp, I may end up 
going this direction.  I have the room to build a sound proofing wall 
that can be located between my operating desk and external wall to the 
shack where my entrance panel is.  This may be a good option, if 
needed, in order to have a quality piece of equipment in my shack.
I've spent time on my antenna system to mitigate noise, I may have to 
do the same thing on the audio side.


So the folks who don't mind the extra fan noise (if in deed it exists) 
fine, but understand where some of us are coming from that don't want 
to deal with the noise (if in deed it exists).


At this time I'm still looking forward to taking delivery of the 
KPA-1500 in the very near future.


Rich - N5ZC

On 6/3/2018 6:33 PM, Don Butler wrote:
A post this afternoon refered to KPA1500 fan noise as an "issue" that 
might

need to be addressed.   I personally think that is an unfair suggestion.
Fan noise with this amplifier is NOT an issue to me.   I have made 
previous
comments and have also posted a video on this thread, and if I have 
given
the impression that fan noise is a problem in my shack I apologize, 
because

that is simply not the case.
   Quite frankly, I think all the hubbub about KPA1500 fan noise is a 
huge
overreaction.  The reality is that the fans will NEVER be required in 
most
operating situations.   I've had my amplifier for three months now, 
and it
has gotten many hours of use.   Typically, with the amp idling in 
standby as

I tune and complete occasional short CW QSOs, the fans NEVER do kick on.
And if they do they will rarely rise above Level  2.   Levels 3, 4 
and 5 may

be required during very heavy duty only, and, at least at my station, I
cannot foresee that happening more than 1 or 2 percent of the time.   
I have
manually selected level 3 on just two occasions, and have never had 
to use

levels  4 or 5.   I personally believe that folks out there are fretting
over fan noise that may never occur.
  IMHO the KPA1500 is a great amp.   Amps are going to get hot. The 
more an
amp is put into transmit mode the hotter it's going to get.   So it 
has to

be cooled.  There's no free lunch.   When my amp does get hot enough to
require speed level 3 or above I will simply put on my earphones and
continue to operate (I use earphones most of the time anyhow). As I
mentioned above, in the three months that I have owned this amplifier, I
have manually switched to level 3 just two times (once while CQing 
for hours
while running in a CW contest and once when I spent about 30 minutes 
chasing

a DX station in a major CW pileup).
  To me, increased fan cooling capability is one of the KPA1500's 
uniquely
great features.  Yes, the fans create noise, but they also rapidly 
cool the
heat sink (probably better than any other amplifier out there).   But 
folks
seem to be more concerned about this noise thing when (I think) they 
should

really be appreciating the KPA1500's superior cooling capabilities.
  I think we should get over this fixation on noise and just enjoy our
amplifiers.

As far as I'm concerned fan noise is NOT as issue with the KPA1500.

Don, N5LZ
KPA1500 S/N 45

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Richard Thorne]

Don,

Thanks for the updated information.  It's quite helpful.

For those of you that don't think that fan noise is a potential problem, 
you need to understand my point of view on this.


I've tried very hard to get a good clean noise free signal to my speaker 
or head phones..  This starts with a good antenna system followed by a 
good ground system and chokes as needed to reduce any induced noise into 
the system.  i still have work do in this area.


It doesn't make much sense to get the above done, only to have the audio 
portion of the signal interfered with.


So before I lay down significant $ for another device, I want to find 
out all the pro's and con's for that device so I don't later regret the 
decision.


In my case I'm not interested in getting a set of headphones (that 
includes a boom mic) that clamps on to my head that causes discomfort.  
If I'm going to use a set of headphones it will continue to be the 
Yamaha CM-500.  The mic is outstanding and it's the most comfortable 
headset I've ever used.  I use the headset for cw and ssb, but I prefer 
to use my external speakers for RTTY with the volume low.


While I'm not all that interested in remoting the amp, I may end up 
going this direction.  I have the room to build a sound proofing wall 
that can be located between my operating desk and external wall to the 
shack where my entrance panel is.  This may be a good option, if needed, 
in order to have a quality piece of equipment in my shack.
I've spent time on my antenna system to mitigate noise, I may have to do 
the same thing on the audio side.


So the folks who don't mind the extra fan noise (if in deed it exists) 
fine, but understand where some of us are coming from that don't want to 
deal with the noise (if in deed it exists).


At this time I'm still looking forward to taking delivery of the 
KPA-1500 in the very near future.


Rich - N5ZC

On 6/3/2018 6:33 PM, Don Butler wrote:

A post this afternoon refered to KPA1500 fan noise as an "issue" that might
need to be addressed.   I personally think that is an unfair suggestion.
Fan noise with this amplifier is NOT an issue to me.   I have made previous
comments and have also posted a video on this thread, and if I have given
the impression that fan noise is a problem in my shack I apologize, because
that is simply not the case.
   
Quite frankly, I think all the hubbub about KPA1500 fan noise is a huge

overreaction.  The reality is that the fans will NEVER be required in most
operating situations.   I've had my amplifier for three months now, and it
has gotten many hours of use.   Typically, with the amp idling in standby as
I tune and complete occasional short CW QSOs, the fans NEVER do kick on.
And if they do they will rarely rise above Level  2.   Levels 3, 4 and 5 may
be required during very heavy duty only, and, at least at my station, I
cannot foresee that happening more than 1 or 2 percent of the time.   I have
manually selected level 3 on just two occasions, and have never had to use
levels  4 or 5.   I personally believe that folks out there are fretting
over fan noise that may never occur.
  
IMHO the KPA1500 is a great amp.   Amps are going to get hot.  The more an

amp is put into transmit mode the hotter it's going to get.   So it has to
be cooled.  There's no free lunch.   When my amp does get hot enough to
require speed level 3 or above I will simply put on my earphones and
continue to operate (I use earphones most of the time anyhow).  As I
mentioned above, in the three months that I have owned this amplifier, I
have manually switched to level 3 just two times (once while CQing for hours
while running in a CW contest and once when I spent about 30 minutes chasing
a DX station in a major CW pileup).
  
To me, increased fan cooling capability is one of the KPA1500's uniquely

great features.  Yes, the fans create noise, but they also rapidly cool the
heat sink (probably better than any other amplifier out there).   But folks
seem to be more concerned about this noise thing when (I think) they should
really be appreciating the KPA1500's superior cooling capabilities.
  
I think we should get over this fixation on noise and just enjoy our

amplifiers.

As far as I'm concerned fan noise is NOT as issue with the KPA1500.

Don, N5LZ
KPA1500 S/N 45

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU TUNE/MODE button Q.

[Dick Dievendorff]

If you HOLD the ATU TUNE button, you switch the ATU between IN and BYPASS.  
When you tap ATU tune, and provide some RF from the exciter, the ATU searches 
for a match.  If the SWR of the antenna is good enough without ATU reactances, 
the ATU discovers that the best tuning solution for that frequency is 
“bypassed”. And when that happens, both ATU LEDS are illuminated.  If you tune 
further up or down the band, and your antenna SWR is above 1.2, the ATU will 
insert reactances and if it does, the ATU BYP LED is not illuminated.

73 de Dick, K6KR

> On Jun 3, 2018, at 18:06, Bill Hassan  wrote:
> 
> I was noticing that when I hold the  ATU TUNE/ATU MODE button, the BYPASS
> led above it always stays on.
> The IN led will switch on and off as I hold the button a second time, but
> the bypass led will always remains on.
> I don't hear any relays latch.
> 
> This happens on all bands, except for 30m.
> 
> On 30m, holding in the button, releasing it and holding it again will turn
> on the IN led, and then the BYPASS led.
> I can hear the relays latch into place as it goes from in to bypass to in...
> 
> On all bands tapping the button will put the amp into tune mode. All normal
> there.
> 
> Something doesn't seem right with the ATU if the bypass and the in led are
> on at the same time.
> 
> Perhaps this could explain my other problems.
> 
> SN 209. Arrived 6/2, ordered late Oct.
> 
> Thoughts, ideas?
> 
> Bill, K1SM
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[Elecraft] KPA1500

[Larry Boekeloo]

For everyone complaining about the fan  noise, I would gladly trade my KPA500 
and KAT500 for your noisy KPA1500 at a reduced rate.

With 40% hearing loss, I'd love to hear the KPA1500.

I mounted an IBM mainframe cooling fan on top of my SB200 to keep it cool while 
working DX.  You want to hear fan noise?


Larry, KN8N

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[K9MA]

Now I'm really confused.  I observed the power drop when operating 
several times, as described below. However, I just ran a test, both with 
an antenna and a dummy load, and saw only a very small change in output, 
perhaps 50 W, which is inconsequential.  I even tried simulating CW 
operating in QSK mode.  I can't think of anything else which has 
changed.  In each case, I'm reading the power output on the KPA1500 
display, but it appears consistent with the P3 TX monitor.  Any ideas?


BTW, the specs I've seen for LDMOS FET's like the ones I presume are 
used in the KPA1500 show quite a small variation in gain with 
temperature.  Feedback should reduce that further.  That would be 
consistent with my test results, but not the operating ones.


I'll do some more "real" operating in a couple days and report the results.

73,
Scott K9MA

On 5/30/2018 15:19, K9MA wrote:
I'm using the K3 with the Elecraft interface cable.  I've noticed the 
the CW drive power required by mine varies considerably, both with 
temperature and SWR.  If I set the K3 output for a KPA1500 output of 
1500 W output initially, the output will drop to perhaps 1100 W when 
the temperature stabilizes at around 65 C.  (I've ruled out any change 
in antenna impedance, etc.)  A similar change occurs if the SWR goes 
from 1:1 to 1.2:1 when changing frequency or switching antennas.  I 
haven't changed the ALC from the default setting.  Has anyone else 
noticed this?


73,

Scott K9MA



--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

 Well said, Don, and I agree.  Its not an issue with me either.  Even though 
its my first solid state amp I realize the need to cool it.  They're already up 
to suggestingwater cooling.  I think we need to talk about hydrogen cooling, 
something the radio room on the Enterprise from Star Trek might have, hi.
The future firmware change might ease some of the "issues" some may have.  Even 
with that change I will still manually set the fan speed to 2 or maybe 3 
duringheavy contesting depending on the situation at the time.  I still prefer 
tube amps like my Acom 2000a but am glad I bought and own the kpa1500.

BillK3WJV

On Sunday, June 3, 2018, 7:36:52 PM EDT, Don Butler  
wrote:  
 
 A post this afternoon refered to KPA1500 fan noise as an "issue" that might
need to be addressed.  I personally think that is an unfair suggestion.
Fan noise with this amplifier is NOT an issue to me.  I have made previous
comments and have also posted a video on this thread, and if I have given
the impression that fan noise is a problem in my shack I apologize, because
that is simply not the case.
  
Quite frankly, I think all the hubbub about KPA1500 fan noise is a huge
overreaction.  The reality is that the fans will NEVER be required in most
operating situations.  I've had my amplifier for three months now, and it
has gotten many hours of use.  Typically, with the amp idling in standby as
I tune and complete occasional short CW QSOs, the fans NEVER do kick on.
And if they do they will rarely rise above Level  2.  Levels 3, 4 and 5 may
be required during very heavy duty only, and, at least at my station, I
cannot foresee that happening more than 1 or 2 percent of the time.  I have
manually selected level 3 on just two occasions, and have never had to use
levels  4 or 5.  I personally believe that folks out there are fretting
over fan noise that may never occur. 
 
IMHO the KPA1500 is a great amp.  Amps are going to get hot.  The more an
amp is put into transmit mode the hotter it's going to get.  So it has to
be cooled.  There's no free lunch.  When my amp does get hot enough to
require speed level 3 or above I will simply put on my earphones and
continue to operate (I use earphones most of the time anyhow).  As I
mentioned above, in the three months that I have owned this amplifier, I
have manually switched to level 3 just two times (once while CQing for hours
while running in a CW contest and once when I spent about 30 minutes chasing
a DX station in a major CW pileup). 
 
To me, increased fan cooling capability is one of the KPA1500's uniquely
great features.  Yes, the fans create noise, but they also rapidly cool the
heat sink (probably better than any other amplifier out there).  But folks
seem to be more concerned about this noise thing when (I think) they should
really be appreciating the KPA1500's superior cooling capabilities.
 
I think we should get over this fixation on noise and just enjoy our
amplifiers.

As far as I'm concerned fan noise is NOT as issue with the KPA1500.

Don, N5LZ
KPA1500 S/N 45

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU TUNE/MODE button Q.

[Bill Hassan]

I was noticing that when I hold the  ATU TUNE/ATU MODE button, the BYPASS
led above it always stays on.
The IN led will switch on and off as I hold the button a second time, but
the bypass led will always remains on.
I don't hear any relays latch.

This happens on all bands, except for 30m.

On 30m, holding in the button, releasing it and holding it again will turn
on the IN led, and then the BYPASS led.
I can hear the relays latch into place as it goes from in to bypass to in...

On all bands tapping the button will put the amp into tune mode. All normal
there.

Something doesn't seem right with the ATU if the bypass and the in led are
on at the same time.

Perhaps this could explain my other problems.

SN 209. Arrived 6/2, ordered late Oct.

Thoughts, ideas?

Bill, K1SM
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Bill Johnson]

Thanks for your report.  I am a future owner.  Paid for it and am awaiting 
delivery.  As a FT of KPA500, I cannot imagine the 1500 would be any less and 
in fact appears to be much more... as it should given the additional technology.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Don Butler
Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2018 6:33 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

A post this afternoon refered to KPA1500 fan noise as an "issue" that might
need to be addressed.   I personally think that is an unfair suggestion.
Fan noise with this amplifier is NOT an issue to me.   I have made previous
comments and have also posted a video on this thread, and if I have given the 
impression that fan noise is a problem in my shack I apologize, because that is 
simply not the case.
  
Quite frankly, I think all the hubbub about KPA1500 fan noise is a huge 
overreaction.  The reality is that the fans will NEVER be required in most
operating situations.   I've had my amplifier for three months now, and it
has gotten many hours of use.   Typically, with the amp idling in standby as
I tune and complete occasional short CW QSOs, the fans NEVER do kick on.
And if they do they will rarely rise above Level  2.   Levels 3, 4 and 5 may
be required during very heavy duty only, and, at least at my station, I
cannot foresee that happening more than 1 or 2 percent of the time.   I have
manually selected level 3 on just two occasions, and have never had to use
levels  4 or 5.   I personally believe that folks out there are fretting
over fan noise that may never occur. 
 
IMHO the KPA1500 is a great amp.   Amps are going to get hot.  The more an
amp is put into transmit mode the hotter it's going to get.   So it has to
be cooled.  There's no free lunch.   When my amp does get hot enough to
require speed level 3 or above I will simply put on my earphones and continue 
to operate (I use earphones most of the time anyhow).  As I mentioned above, in 
the three months that I have owned this amplifier, I have manually switched to 
level 3 just two times (once while CQing for hours while running in a CW 
contest and once when I spent about 30 minutes chasing a DX station in a major 
CW pileup). 
 
To me, increased fan cooling capability is one of the KPA1500's uniquely great 
features.  Yes, the fans create noise, but they also rapidly cool the
heat sink (probably better than any other amplifier out there).   But folks
seem to be more concerned about this noise thing when (I think) they should 
really be appreciating the KPA1500's superior cooling capabilities.
 
I think we should get over this fixation on noise and just enjoy our amplifiers.

As far as I'm concerned fan noise is NOT as issue with the KPA1500.

Don, N5LZ
KPA1500 S/N 45

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise - Not An Issue

[Don Butler]

A post this afternoon refered to KPA1500 fan noise as an "issue" that might
need to be addressed.   I personally think that is an unfair suggestion.
Fan noise with this amplifier is NOT an issue to me.   I have made previous
comments and have also posted a video on this thread, and if I have given
the impression that fan noise is a problem in my shack I apologize, because
that is simply not the case.
  
Quite frankly, I think all the hubbub about KPA1500 fan noise is a huge
overreaction.  The reality is that the fans will NEVER be required in most
operating situations.   I've had my amplifier for three months now, and it
has gotten many hours of use.   Typically, with the amp idling in standby as
I tune and complete occasional short CW QSOs, the fans NEVER do kick on.
And if they do they will rarely rise above Level  2.   Levels 3, 4 and 5 may
be required during very heavy duty only, and, at least at my station, I
cannot foresee that happening more than 1 or 2 percent of the time.   I have
manually selected level 3 on just two occasions, and have never had to use
levels  4 or 5.   I personally believe that folks out there are fretting
over fan noise that may never occur. 
 
IMHO the KPA1500 is a great amp.   Amps are going to get hot.  The more an
amp is put into transmit mode the hotter it's going to get.   So it has to
be cooled.  There's no free lunch.   When my amp does get hot enough to
require speed level 3 or above I will simply put on my earphones and
continue to operate (I use earphones most of the time anyhow).  As I
mentioned above, in the three months that I have owned this amplifier, I
have manually switched to level 3 just two times (once while CQing for hours
while running in a CW contest and once when I spent about 30 minutes chasing
a DX station in a major CW pileup). 
 
To me, increased fan cooling capability is one of the KPA1500's uniquely
great features.  Yes, the fans create noise, but they also rapidly cool the
heat sink (probably better than any other amplifier out there).   But folks
seem to be more concerned about this noise thing when (I think) they should
really be appreciating the KPA1500's superior cooling capabilities.
 
I think we should get over this fixation on noise and just enjoy our
amplifiers.

As far as I'm concerned fan noise is NOT as issue with the KPA1500.

Don, N5LZ
KPA1500 S/N 45

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise

[Clay Autery]

"Water cooling" has come a LONG way from the days back in the 90s when 
we were machining out own water blocks from aluminum and copper, and 
trying to construct flow loops that didn't leak, find suitable 
radiators, etc.


But I don't think there are any current CPU/GPU coolers on the market 
that would touch the heat rejection requirements of the combined LDMOS 
modules, assuming you could find a model that could be adapted, and 
somehow managed to find a way to get it attached  You'd ALMOST HAVE 
to cool the copper heat spreader, since the LDMOS are I suspect soldered 
to it.  Don't know if the heat spreader is soldered or mechanically 
attached to the heat sink..  It is possible that you could gang multiple 
large OTS CPU coolers onto the heat spreader in place of the massive 
heatsink.


Then you'd need to figure out what you were going to do with the 1- "n" 
number of sets of hoses and radiators and 1-3 times n number of 
radiators in very large fans.


And THEN, remember that there are other thermal loads inside the 
chassis...  You'll still need to provided some airflow to those loads, 
so you'll still need case fans.


Certainly and interesting and intriguing project for someone deep of 
pockets and most grande of huevos  but not a trivial task certainly.

I personally would not risk my $6k amp to do it... If I had one.  :(

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 06/03/18 08:11, Drew AF2Z wrote:
There are liquid cooling systems available for CPUs and graphics 
cards, used by gamers and overclockers. Have no idea how this would 
compare to cooling a 1500 watt RF power amplifier but probably more 
analogous than an airplane engine.


73,
Drew
AF2Z


On 06/02/18 17:09, Dauer, Edward wrote:


I have been following this thread with interest because I have a 
KPA1500 on order, and I have very limited flexibility as to where the 
RF deck can go compared to where I will have to sit.


Don's video was very well done and a great help in understanding the 
realities.


I know zero about thermodynamics, and so wanted only to say thanks to 
everyone who is contributing ideas, and to make but two comments.


First, as to water cooling, I suspect it would be a huge weight 
penalty to get the cooling fluid everywhere it needs to be.  So far 
as I know there is only one reciprocating engine made for aircraft 
that has a water jacket.  (There might be others nowadays - I haven't 
owned an airplane for some years.)  The reasons others don't are 
reliability, safety, complexity, and - mostly - weight.  Second, 
isn't this largely a contest-operating issue?   I believe we are 
still governed by the rule that we may use only that amount of power 
necessary for the communication.    I contest too, so I'll face the 
problem on those occasions, but not for casual ragchews.  I plan to 
make some graphs of when in terms of time, power, mode and band the 
fans on mine kick up a notch, and use it as a general operating 
guideline if I need to.


Ted, KN1CBR




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[Elecraft] KPA1500 low output problems on15, 17, & 20 meters.

[Bill Hassan]

Just received SN 209 yesterday. Ordered late Oct 2017.

Removed the KPA500 and put the big boy into place, using the same KPA cable
to the K3.

The K3 controls the amp and the amp band switches the K3, like it should.

With between 30 and 40 watts drive I get full power out... except for the
following:

On 15 meters, I get less that 50w out. If I increase the drive pwr the 1500
goes into fault mode.
On 20m, I have to increase the drive to 50w to get 900w out, then the amp
goes into fault mode.
On 17m,  I have to increase the drive to 40w to get 150w from the amp, then
fault mode.

All other bands work fine,

The amp ATU is bypassed, and the results are similar into a dummy load or a
well matched antenna.

The ATU in the K3 in bypassed. I have not changed any K3 settings since I
pulled the KPA500 and plugged in the 1500.

Also, when I tried to reset the amp as per the manual, (Hold edit when
tapping the on button) nothing resets to factory defaults.
I tested this by lowering the display brightness and contrast, and after
the reset attempt, my dim settings did not change.

I also downloaded and reloaded the firmware ver 1.4 from Elecraft, and
reset it to factory defaults.

Any ideas? Is this another case of equipment superior to operator?

Bill Hassan, K1SM
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise

[Drew AF2Z]

There are liquid cooling systems available for CPUs and graphics cards, 
used by gamers and overclockers. Have no idea how this would compare to 
cooling a 1500 watt RF power amplifier but probably more analogous than 
an airplane engine.


73,
Drew
AF2Z


On 06/02/18 17:09, Dauer, Edward wrote:


I have been following this thread with interest because I have a KPA1500 on 
order, and I have very limited flexibility as to where the RF deck can go 
compared to where I will have to sit.

Don's video was very well done and a great help in understanding the realities.

I know zero about thermodynamics, and so wanted only to say thanks to everyone 
who is contributing ideas, and to make but two comments.

First, as to water cooling, I suspect it would be a huge weight penalty to get 
the cooling fluid everywhere it needs to be.  So far as I know there is only 
one reciprocating engine made for aircraft that has a water jacket.  (There 
might be others nowadays - I haven't owned an airplane for some years.)  The 
reasons others don't are reliability, safety, complexity, and - mostly - 
weight.  Second, isn't this largely a contest-operating issue?   I believe we 
are still governed by the rule that we may use only that amount of power 
necessary for the communication.I contest too, so I'll face the problem on 
those occasions, but not for casual ragchews.  I plan to make some graphs of 
when in terms of time, power, mode and band the fans on mine kick up a notch, 
and use it as a general operating guideline if I need to.

Ted, KN1CBR




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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted

[Peter Hall]

Don

Thanks for the video and the noise comparison with your other amplifiers.

I've had my KPA1500 (s/n 083) a few weeks and have enjoyed using it on the air, 
as well as subjecting it to IMD and other tests at a variety of power levels.  

Individual tolerance of acoustic noise varies and I put myself in the 
"sensitive" category.  When I first set up the amplifier and power supply, I 
realised that I was going to have to do something  more than simply stacking 
the units alongside my operating position: the PSU fan was just too annoying.  
Lacking any immediate "remote" options, I settled for putting the PSU on top of 
a small chest of drawers, located under my operating desk, which is made of 
thick, dense laminated particle board.  The room is carpeted, and rather dead 
acoustically.

I found that acoustically shielding the PSU helped enormously, while the chosen 
position still allows good airflow and access to the PSU.   I did also 
experiment with some heavy felt drapes pinned under a section of the desk but, 
when the airflow to the PSU was good enough, there was no worthwhile 
improvement over just positioning the PSU under, and slightly towards the back, 
of the desk.

As far as the RF deck fans go, I can live with the Level-1 speed but, in 
situations giving more than an occasional burst at Level 2,  I'd be looking to 
locate the unit further from my desk.  I do wear headphones from time to time, 
and that would certainly help with the acoustic noise issue, but it wouldn't be 
a long-term fix in my circumstances.  The upside is that Australian power 
levels, and my operating modes, mean that the RF deck fans do not routinely get 
beyond Level 1.  Even when doing the dummy load tests mentioned earlier, I 
paused the measurements if the fans hit Level 3.

I'd add that the KPA1500 is likely one of a very small number of amplifiers of 
its class suitable for desk installation in my small shack.  Notwithstanding my 
earlier comments about noise, I find it a nicely engineered product which meets 
my requirements for a high power, solid state gain block for use with a variety 
of exciters.  My other amplifier is a Collins 30L-1 (4x811A), which now sits 
permanently attached to an S-line station.  Fan noise was never a problem 
there, but 30L-1 cooling is less than generous, being helped by a single fan, 
the motor of which has aptly been described as a refugee from a record player.

As an aside, I'm looking forward to the KPA1500 firmware upgrade, having also 
identified the occasional SWR bar graph errant excursion as most likely a 
firmware bug (aka algorithmic anomaly).

73 to all,
Peter.

 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Don Butler
Sent: Saturday, 2 June 2018 2:01 PM
To: 'Richard Thorne' ; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted

In response to N5ZC’s request  I just made this short video to provide a listen 
to the KPA1500's fans ... at least as they sound in my shack.  Follow this link 
to view: https://vimeo.com/273064144

In addition to the KPA1500 the video also includes footage of my Alpha 9500 and 
Icom PA1 … each running with their fans at maximum speed … to provide a simple 
rather crude comparison.

What do I think?   I think that fan speed 1 and fan speed 2 on the KPA1500 are 
probably comparable to the fans that are installed on the other amplifiers as 
far as sound and efficiency are concerned and likely provide a similar degree 
of cooling at those speeds.   And, I think that fan speeds 3, 4, and 5 (which 
are indeed noisy) provide the KPA1500 with enhanced cooling capability that is 
simply not available on other amplifiers.

Don, N5LZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Richard Thorne
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 5:55 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Fan Noise - YouTube ?

This fan noise issue has me concerned to the point that I’m considering 
cancelling my order.

While the amp won’t be on my operating desk, it will be on a rack next to my 
operating desk.  Remoting the amp is not an option. Quite frankly I have no 
interest in remoting the amp.

Is there anyone out there that has a KPA-1500 willing to post a YouTube video 
so we can hear the fan in action and judge the noise for ourselves?

From the research I’ve done it appears that if you want a solid state amp, 
regardless of make, you need to be prepared for fan noise.

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC

Sent from my iPhone
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise

[John Perlick]

Every amplifier has some level of fan noise.  My new KPA1500 is seriously 
quieter than my former Expert 2KFA.  

My Henry 2K Ultra fans were so loud that I couldn't keep it in the radio room.  
Luckily I had the remote version. 

My Harris RF-3230 (all solid state) had 8 six-inch muffin fans!  It sounded 
like a DC-9 warming up for a takeoff.  I was two rooms away from the shack and 
I could still hear those fans!

I run my KPA1500 at 1500 Watts SSB/CW and I have never heard the fans go past 
setting #2.  If you want to run 1500 Watts of RTTY or AM, then expect the fans 
to be running hard to keep the amp cool.  If you want a quieter shack, put the 
amp in another room.  

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fault

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Hi Steve,

When plugging in the large 50V power cables between the power supply and rf 
deck, make sure they are pushed in firmly with -two- distinct insertion clicks. 
After feeling the first click, push them in further for the second click.

We are finding some customers mistakenly think they are fully inserted after 
just the first click, which can lead to intermittent 50 V to the amp. 

If you still have problems after checking this, please contact 
supp...@elecraft.com so we can help you resolve it.

73,
Eric
elecraft.com
_..._

> On Jun 3, 2018, at 6:09 AM, Steve  wrote:
> 
> Turned on #121 tonight. Keyed K3 with 15 Watts. Amp immediately went into 
> hard fault mode showing ‘50 VOLTS: 4.5 volts’ recycled and relayed. Immediate 
> hard fault showing ‘50 VOLTS: 2.5 volts’. Next recycle fault shows ‘50 VOLTS: 
> 2.1 volts’
> 
> Sounds ominous. Anyone have any ideas?
> 
> 73
> Steve AA4V 
> 
> 
> Sent from my I-Phone
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 fault

[Steve]

Turned on #121 tonight. Keyed K3 with 15 Watts. Amp immediately went into hard 
fault mode showing ‘50 VOLTS: 4.5 volts’ recycled and relayed. Immediate hard 
fault showing ‘50 VOLTS: 2.5 volts’. Next recycle fault shows ‘50 VOLTS: 2.1 
volts’

Sounds ominous. Anyone have any ideas?

73
Steve AA4V 


Sent from my I-Phone
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

Hello Ted,
I haven't owned an airplane in years either, 1995 when I sold my BD-4, Darn.
However, As I grow older and the ears get weaker, having to listen to fan noise 
mixed with SSB voice is a concern.  I am an engineer of sorts and know that 
there are ways to control the noise from fans.  Efficient vane design for lower 
RPM operation and still produce the required CFM.  So what is the dBa of the 
1500 at 0-5 levels?  My ears like to hear <25 dBa noise.  The noise in the 
Utube video WAS way above that.  NOT good.
Mel, K6KBE

  From: "Dauer, Edward" 
 To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net"  
 Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 2:15 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise
   

I have been following this thread with interest because I have a KPA1500 on 
order, and I have very limited flexibility as to where the RF deck can go 
compared to where I will have to sit.

Don's video was very well done and a great help in understanding the realities.

I know zero about thermodynamics, and so wanted only to say thanks to everyone 
who is contributing ideas, and to make but two comments.    

First, as to water cooling, I suspect it would be a huge weight penalty to get 
the cooling fluid everywhere it needs to be.  So far as I know there is only 
one reciprocating engine made for aircraft that has a water jacket.  (There 
might be others nowadays - I haven't owned an airplane for some years.)  The 
reasons others don't are reliability, safety, complexity, and - mostly - 
weight.  Second, isn't this largely a contest-operating issue?  I believe we 
are still governed by the rule that we may use only that amount of power 
necessary for the communication.    I contest too, so I'll face the problem on 
those occasions, but not for casual ragchews.  I plan to make some graphs of 
when in terms of time, power, mode and band the fans on mine kick up a notch, 
and use it as a general operating guideline if I need to.

Ted, KN1CBR



Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 08:48:46 -0600
    From: Don Butler 
    To: Paul Baldock ,     "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net"
        
    Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted
    Message-ID: 
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
    
    Paul ?. The PS noise is minimal from my point of view.  The power supply 
fans do run continuously while the amp is switched on ?. You can hear the PS 
fans at the beginning and end of the video when the fan speed is set at ?0? .. 
all you?re hearing at that time is the PS fan ? at power down right at the end 
you can hear when the PS fans stop.
    
    Don, N5LZ
    
    

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise

[Dauer, Edward]

I have been following this thread with interest because I have a KPA1500 on 
order, and I have very limited flexibility as to where the RF deck can go 
compared to where I will have to sit.

Don's video was very well done and a great help in understanding the realities.

I know zero about thermodynamics, and so wanted only to say thanks to everyone 
who is contributing ideas, and to make but two comments.

First, as to water cooling, I suspect it would be a huge weight penalty to get 
the cooling fluid everywhere it needs to be.  So far as I know there is only 
one reciprocating engine made for aircraft that has a water jacket.  (There 
might be others nowadays - I haven't owned an airplane for some years.)  The 
reasons others don't are reliability, safety, complexity, and - mostly - 
weight.  Second, isn't this largely a contest-operating issue?   I believe we 
are still governed by the rule that we may use only that amount of power 
necessary for the communication.I contest too, so I'll face the problem on 
those occasions, but not for casual ragchews.  I plan to make some graphs of 
when in terms of time, power, mode and band the fans on mine kick up a notch, 
and use it as a general operating guideline if I need to.

Ted, KN1CBR



Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 08:48:46 -0600
From: Don Butler 
To: Paul Baldock ,"Elecraft@mailman.qth.net"
    
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Paul ?. The PS noise is minimal from my point of view.  The power supply 
fans do run continuously while the amp is switched on ?. You can hear the PS 
fans at the beginning and end of the video when the fan speed is set at ?0? .. 
all you?re hearing at that time is the PS fan ? at power down right at the end 
you can hear when the PS fans stop.

Don, N5LZ



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

 So far for the short time I've had the 1500, I've used it very heavily in WPX 
CW recently.  At constant running , sometimes getting no answers which is 
probably max duty cyclefor this kind of operating, I never went over about 74 
degrees C which kicks in fan speed 3 (I think, hi, I had it manually on 3 
anyway in this situation and of course 1500 watts).

BillK3WJV

On Saturday, June 2, 2018, 6:47:03 AM EDT, j...@kk9a.com  
wrote:  
 
 Nice video Don. Speed 4 and 5 might be like trying to operate with the XYL
vacuuming around you. I wonder what duty cycle and power level it takes
for these speeds to kick in. It was good to see a comparison with the tube
amps. My Alphas were hardly noticeable when running but remember they are
significantly larger and do not require a 3, 4 or 5 fan speed setting.

John KK9A


Don Butler n5lz wrote:

In response to N5ZC’s request  I just made this short video to provide a
listen to the KPA1500's fans ... at least as they sound in my shack. 
Follow this link to view: https://vimeo.com/273064144

In addition to the KPA1500 the video also includes footage of my Alpha
9500 and Icom PA1 … each running with their fans at maximum speed … to
provide a simple rather crude comparison.

What do I think?  I think that fan speed 1 and fan speed 2 on the KPA1500
are probably comparable to the fans that are installed on the other
amplifiers as far as sound and efficiency are concerned and likely provide
a similar degree of cooling at those speeds.  And, I think that fan
speeds 3, 4, and 5 (which are indeed noisy) provide the KPA1500 with
enhanced cooling capability that is simply not available on other
amplifiers.

Don, N5LZ

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted

[Richard Thorne]

Don,

That was an excellent video and comparison.

Thanks for taking the time to make it and post it.

I’m only a few weeks away from shipment and really would like the kpa-1500 in 
my RF chain.  I have a kpa-500 and it’s been an outstanding performer.

If the noise ends up being an issue I may consider building a sound barrier 
wall between my op desk and my exterior wall.

Thanks again Don

Rich - N5ZC
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 2, 2018, at 7:48 AM, Don Butler  wrote:
> 
> Paul …. The PS noise is minimal from my point of view.  The power supply fans 
> do run continuously while the amp is switched on …. You can hear the PS fans 
> at the beginning and end of the video when the fan speed is set at “0” .. all 
> you’re hearing at that time is the PS fan … at power down right at the end 
> you can hear when the PS fans stop.
> 
> Don, N5LZ
> 
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
> From: Paul Baldock
> Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:38 AM
> To: Don Butler; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted
> 
> Does the power supply make any significant noise?
> 
> - Paul
> 
> At 11:01 PM 6/1/2018, Don Butler wrote:
>> In response to N5ZC’s request  I just made 
>> this short video to provide a listen to the 
>> KPA1500's fans ... at least as they sound in my 
>> shack.  Follow this link to view: 
>> https://vimeo.com/273064144 In addition to the 
>> KPA1500 the video also includes footage of my 
>> Alpha 9500 and Icom PA1 
> each running with 
>> their fans at maximum speed 
> … to provide a 
>> simple rather crude comparison. What do I 
>> think?   I think that fan speed 1 and fan speed 
>> 2 on the KPA1500 are probably comparable to the 
>> fans that are installed on the other amplifiers 
>> as far as sound and efficiency are concerned and 
>> likely provide a similar degree of cooling at 
>> those speeds.   And, I think that fan speeds 3, 
>> 4, and 5 (which are indeed noisy) provide the 
>> KPA1500 with enhanced cooling capability that is 
>> simply not available on other amplifiers. Don, 
>> N5LZ -Original Message- From: 
>> elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On 
>> Behalf Of Richard Thorne Sent: Friday, June 01, 
>> 2018 5:55 PM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
>> Subject: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Fan Noise - YouTube 
>> ? This fan noise issue has me concerned to the 
>> point that I’m considering cancelling my 
>> order. While the amp won’t be on my operating 
>> desk, it will be on a rack next to my operating 
>> desk.  Remoting the amp is not an option. Quite 
>> frankly I have no interest in remoting the amp. 
>> Is there anyone out there that has a KPA-1500 
>> willing to post a YouTube video so we can hear 
>> the fan in action and judge the noise for 
>> ourselves? From the research I’ve done it 
>> appears that if you want a solid state amp, 
>> regardless of make, you need to be prepared for 
>> fan noise. Thanks Rich - N5ZC Sent from my 
>> iPhone 
>> __ 
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>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft 
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>> by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted

[Don Butler]

Paul …. The PS noise is minimal from my point of view.  The power supply fans 
do run continuously while the amp is switched on …. You can hear the PS fans at 
the beginning and end of the video when the fan speed is set at “0” .. all 
you’re hearing at that time is the PS fan … at power down right at the end you 
can hear when the PS fans stop.

Don, N5LZ


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Paul Baldock
Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:38 AM
To: Don Butler; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted

Does the power supply make any significant noise?

- Paul

At 11:01 PM 6/1/2018, Don Butler wrote:
>In response to N5ZC’s request  I just made 
>this short video to provide a listen to the 
>KPA1500's fans ... at least as they sound in my 
>shack.  Follow this link to view: 
>https://vimeo.com/273064144 In addition to the 
>KPA1500 the video also includes footage of my 
>Alpha 9500 and Icom PA1 … each running with 
>their fans at maximum speed …… to provide a 
>simple rather crude comparison. What do I 
>think?   I think that fan speed 1 and fan speed 
>2 on the KPA1500 are probably comparable to the 
>fans that are installed on the other amplifiers 
>as far as sound and efficiency are concerned and 
>likely provide a similar degree of cooling at 
>those speeds.   And, I think that fan speeds 3, 
>4, and 5 (which are indeed noisy) provide the 
>KPA1500 with enhanced cooling capability that is 
>simply not available on other amplifiers. Don, 
>N5LZ -Original Message- From: 
>elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On 
>Behalf Of Richard Thorne Sent: Friday, June 01, 
>2018 5:55 PM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
>Subject: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Fan Noise - YouTube 
>? This fan noise issue has me concerned to the 
>point that I’m considering cancelling my 
>order. While the amp won’t be on my operating 
>desk, it will be on a rack next to my operating 
>desk.  Remoting the amp is not an option. Quite 
>frankly I have no interest in remoting the amp. 
>Is there anyone out there that has a KPA-1500 
>willing to post a YouTube video so we can hear 
>the fan in action and judge the noise for 
>ourselves? From the research I’ve done it 
>appears that if you want a solid state amp, 
>regardless of make, you need to be prepared for 
>fan noise. Thanks Rich - N5ZC Sent from my 
>iPhone 
>__ 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted

[Paul Baldock]

Does the power supply make any significant noise?

- Paul

At 11:01 PM 6/1/2018, Don Butler wrote:
In response to N5ZC’s request  I just made 
this short video to provide a listen to the 
KPA1500's fans ... at least as they sound in my 
shack.  Follow this link to view: 
https://vimeo.com/273064144 In addition to the 
KPA1500 the video also includes footage of my 
Alpha 9500 and Icom PA1 … each running with 
their fans at maximum speed …… to provide a 
simple rather crude comparison. What do I 
think?   I think that fan speed 1 and fan speed 
2 on the KPA1500 are probably comparable to the 
fans that are installed on the other amplifiers 
as far as sound and efficiency are concerned and 
likely provide a similar degree of cooling at 
those speeds.   And, I think that fan speeds 3, 
4, and 5 (which are indeed noisy) provide the 
KPA1500 with enhanced cooling capability that is 
simply not available on other amplifiers. Don, 
N5LZ -Original Message- From: 
elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On 
Behalf Of Richard Thorne Sent: Friday, June 01, 
2018 5:55 PM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Fan Noise - YouTube 
? This fan noise issue has me concerned to the 
point that I’m considering cancelling my 
order. While the amp won’t be on my operating 
desk, it will be on a rack next to my operating 
desk.  Remoting the amp is not an option. Quite 
frankly I have no interest in remoting the amp. 
Is there anyone out there that has a KPA-1500 
willing to post a YouTube video so we can hear 
the fan in action and judge the noise for 
ourselves? From the research I’ve done it 
appears that if you want a solid state amp, 
regardless of make, you need to be prepared for 
fan noise. Thanks Rich - N5ZC Sent from my 
iPhone 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted

[N2TK, Tony]

There had been some talk about adding a pair of slow running fans on top of the 
amp over the vent holes to help suck out the air. Any comparisons done if the 
main fans run at a lower speed?
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Butler
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2018 2:01 AM
To: 'Richard Thorne' ; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted

In response to N5ZC’s request  I just made this short video to provide a listen 
to the KPA1500's fans ... at least as they sound in my shack.  Follow this link 
to view: https://vimeo.com/273064144

In addition to the KPA1500 the video also includes footage of my Alpha 9500 and 
Icom PA1 … each running with their fans at maximum speed … to provide a simple 
rather crude comparison.

What do I think?   I think that fan speed 1 and fan speed 2 on the KPA1500 are 
probably comparable to the fans that are installed on the other amplifiers as 
far as sound and efficiency are concerned and likely provide a similar degree 
of cooling at those speeds.   And, I think that fan speeds 3, 4, and 5 (which 
are indeed noisy) provide the KPA1500 with enhanced cooling capability that is 
simply not available on other amplifiers.

Don, N5LZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Richard Thorne
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 5:55 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Fan Noise - YouTube ?

This fan noise issue has me concerned to the point that I’m considering 
cancelling my order.

While the amp won’t be on my operating desk, it will be on a rack next to my 
operating desk.  Remoting the amp is not an option. Quite frankly I have no 
interest in remoting the amp.

Is there anyone out there that has a KPA-1500 willing to post a YouTube video 
so we can hear the fan in action and judge the noise for ourselves?

From the research I’ve done it appears that if you want a solid state amp, 
regardless of make, you need to be prepared for fan noise.

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC

Sent from my iPhone
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted

[j...@kk9a.com]

Nice video Don. Speed 4 and 5 might be like trying to operate with the XYL
vacuuming around you. I wonder what duty cycle and power level it takes
for these speeds to kick in. It was good to see a comparison with the tube
amps. My Alphas were hardly noticeable when running but remember they are
significantly larger and do not require a 3, 4 or 5 fan speed setting.

John KK9A


Don Butler n5lz wrote:

In response to N5ZC’s request  I just made this short video to provide a
listen to the KPA1500's fans ... at least as they sound in my shack. 
Follow this link to view: https://vimeo.com/273064144

In addition to the KPA1500 the video also includes footage of my Alpha
9500 and Icom PA1 … each running with their fans at maximum speed … to
provide a simple rather crude comparison.

What do I think?   I think that fan speed 1 and fan speed 2 on the KPA1500
are probably comparable to the fans that are installed on the other
amplifiers as far as sound and efficiency are concerned and likely provide
a similar degree of cooling at those speeds.   And, I think that fan
speeds 3, 4, and 5 (which are indeed noisy) provide the KPA1500 with
enhanced cooling capability that is simply not available on other
amplifiers.

Don, N5LZ

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted

[turnbull]

The Valve amps do not require such cooling.   73 Doug EI2CN


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: Don Butler  Date: 
02/06/2018  08:01  (GMT+01:00) To: 'Richard Thorne' , 
Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted 
In response to N5ZC’s request  I just made this short video to provide a listen 
to the KPA1500's fans ... at least as they sound in my shack.  Follow this link 
to view: https://vimeo.com/273064144

In addition to the KPA1500 the video also includes footage of my Alpha 9500 and 
Icom PA1 … each running with their fans at maximum speed … to provide a simple 
rather crude comparison.

What do I think?   I think that fan speed 1 and fan speed 2 on the KPA1500 are 
probably comparable to the fans that are installed on the other amplifiers as 
far as sound and efficiency are concerned and likely provide a similar degree 
of cooling at those speeds.   And, I think that fan speeds 3, 4, and 5 (which 
are indeed noisy) provide the KPA1500 with enhanced cooling capability that is 
simply not available on other amplifiers.

Don, N5LZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Richard Thorne
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 5:55 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Fan Noise - YouTube ?

This fan noise issue has me concerned to the point that I’m considering 
cancelling my order.

While the amp won’t be on my operating desk, it will be on a rack next to my 
operating desk.  Remoting the amp is not an option. Quite frankly I have no 
interest in remoting the amp.

Is there anyone out there that has a KPA-1500 willing to post a YouTube video 
so we can hear the fan in action and judge the noise for ourselves?

From the research I’ve done it appears that if you want a solid state amp, 
regardless of make, you need to be prepared for fan noise.

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC

Sent from my iPhone
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Fan Noise Video posted

[Don Butler]

In response to N5ZC’s request  I just made this short video to provide a listen 
to the KPA1500's fans ... at least as they sound in my shack.  Follow this link 
to view: https://vimeo.com/273064144

In addition to the KPA1500 the video also includes footage of my Alpha 9500 and 
Icom PA1 … each running with their fans at maximum speed … to provide a simple 
rather crude comparison.

What do I think?   I think that fan speed 1 and fan speed 2 on the KPA1500 are 
probably comparable to the fans that are installed on the other amplifiers as 
far as sound and efficiency are concerned and likely provide a similar degree 
of cooling at those speeds.   And, I think that fan speeds 3, 4, and 5 (which 
are indeed noisy) provide the KPA1500 with enhanced cooling capability that is 
simply not available on other amplifiers.

Don, N5LZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Richard Thorne
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 5:55 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA-1500 Fan Noise - YouTube ?

This fan noise issue has me concerned to the point that I’m considering 
cancelling my order.

While the amp won’t be on my operating desk, it will be on a rack next to my 
operating desk.  Remoting the amp is not an option. Quite frankly I have no 
interest in remoting the amp.

Is there anyone out there that has a KPA-1500 willing to post a YouTube video 
so we can hear the fan in action and judge the noise for ourselves?

From the research I’ve done it appears that if you want a solid state amp, 
regardless of make, you need to be prepared for fan noise.

Thanks

Rich - N5ZC

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 LCD Color

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi John,

Amber is not a standard color for this particular display. Sorry about that.

Wayne
N6KR



> On Jun 1, 2018, at 3:44 PM, John Perlick  wrote:
> 
> I love the backlight color on my K3/K3S and KX3.  I also love my new KPA1500. 
>  But, why oh why did you change to a blue backlight on the KPA1500?  Dang, I 
> love that amber color--reminds me of that faded amber color of those old 
> radios, like my RME-45 that I had before my Novice days.  Let me know if you 
> do change to Amber! 
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 LCD Color

[John Perlick]

I love the backlight color on my K3/K3S and KX3.  I also love my new KPA1500.  
But, why oh why did you change to a blue backlight on the KPA1500?  Dang, I 
love that amber color--reminds me of that faded amber color of those old 
radios, like my RME-45 that I had before my Novice days.  Let me know if you do 
change to Amber! 
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Serial Number 207 delivered

[Thomas Schaefer]

A brand new KPA1500 Serial number 207 (ordered 10/16/2017) arrived safely 
today. Great packing job and I was surprised the amp was heavier than the power 
supply. But they are both lighter than I expected. Now I understand the handle 
as they are each light enough to trust the handle.

Regards,

Tom NY4I
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[Jim Brown]

On 5/31/2018 1:14 PM, Michael Blake wrote:

Are you sure that it is not the K3(s) itself that has unstable output power.  I 
see this occur on my KPA500 and it is not getting hot.


Me too.

Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[K9MA]

Absolutely. I have never seen such fluctuations of either output or grid 
current with my other amplifiers. 

Scott K9MA 

--

Scott Ellington

 --- via iPad

> On May 31, 2018, at 3:14 PM, Michael Blake  wrote:
> 
> Are you sure that it is not the K3(s) itself that has unstable output power.  

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[Michael Blake]

Are you sure that it is not the K3(s) itself that has unstable output power.  I 
see this occur on my KPA500 and it is not getting hot.

Michael Blake
k9...@mac.com 






> On May 31, 2018, at 4:09 PM, K9MA  wrote:
> 
> I agree with Rick:  A way to slowly adjust the drive power automatically to 
> maintain constant peak output would solve the problem. I'd think the KPA1500 
> firmware could do this with the K3 via the accessory cable. Probably the K3 
> should revert to its original output when the KPA1500 is cold, or power would 
> initially overshoot.  Better yet if the amp could remember drive power for 
> each band as a function of temperature. 
> 
> While it's annoying to have to keep fiddling with the power control, I can 
> understand that there are higher priorities now. 
> 
> 73,
> Scott K9MA 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Scott Ellington
> 
> --- via iPad
> 
>> On May 31, 2018, at 1:06 PM, Rick Tavan  wrote:
>> 
>> I've seen some gain drift with temperature, too. I've wondered if there
>> might be a way to feed back drive power change requests to a K3, or other
>> radio with adequate command capabilities, to maintain a target output power
>> (say, 1500w) as the amp warms and cools. This should be done slowly - on
>> the order of seconds, not milliseconds like ALC. KPA1500 Utility knows its
>> output power and could be programmed to generate the requests. I don't know
>> how to get commands into a K3 that has its serial port connected to a
>> logging program. There are some port-sharing tools out there that might
>> work, but I'm not familiar with them. In any case, it would require some
>> engineering at Elecraft. In the meantime, I keep an eye on output and tweak
>> the drive manually to stay both powerful and legal.
>> 
>> /Rick N6XI
>> 
>> 
>> Rick Tavan
>> Truckee, CA
>> 
>>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:01 AM, j...@kk9a.com  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My KPA500 also has slightly inconsistent output. If I recall output drops
>>> a little after the first few seconds of key down. Perhaps it is normal for
>>> solid state amps as I have never noticed this with a tube amp. This may be
>>> more of a concern with a legal limit amp if you want to keep it as close
>>> to 1500 watts without going over.
>>> 
>>> John KK9A
>>> 
>>> Bill Stravinsky k3wjv wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yup, as the temp climbs the output drops some.  Even though I'm glad I
>>> got the solid state amp I still prefer tubes, hi.  The drop is anywhere
>>> between 100 to maybe 300 watts.I never really noted the exact numbers.
>>> BillK3WJV
>>> p.s. I'm thinking its a normal solid state thing.
>>> 
>>>   On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 4:23:47 PM EDT, K9MA >> sdellington.us> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm using the K3 with the Elecraft interface cable.  I've noticed the
>>> the CW drive power required by mine varies considerably, both with
>>> temperature and SWR.  If I set the K3 output for a KPA1500 output of
>>> 1500 W output initially, the output will drop to perhaps 1100 W when the
>>> temperature stabilizes at around 65 C.  (I've ruled out any change in
>>> antenna impedance, etc.)  A similar change occurs if the SWR goes from
>>> 1:1 to 1.2:1 when changing frequency or switching antennas.  I haven't
>>> changed the ALC from the default setting.  Has anyone else noticed this?
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> 
>>> Scott K9MA
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Scott  K9MA
>>> 
>>> k9ma at sdellington.us
>>> 
>>> __
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>>> Message delivered to rta...@gmail.com
>>> 
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[K9MA]

I agree with Rick:  A way to slowly adjust the drive power automatically to 
maintain constant peak output would solve the problem. I'd think the KPA1500 
firmware could do this with the K3 via the accessory cable. Probably the K3 
should revert to its original output when the KPA1500 is cold, or power would 
initially overshoot.  Better yet if the amp could remember drive power for each 
band as a function of temperature. 

While it's annoying to have to keep fiddling with the power control, I can 
understand that there are higher priorities now. 

73,
Scott K9MA 



--

Scott Ellington

 --- via iPad

> On May 31, 2018, at 1:06 PM, Rick Tavan  wrote:
> 
> I've seen some gain drift with temperature, too. I've wondered if there
> might be a way to feed back drive power change requests to a K3, or other
> radio with adequate command capabilities, to maintain a target output power
> (say, 1500w) as the amp warms and cools. This should be done slowly - on
> the order of seconds, not milliseconds like ALC. KPA1500 Utility knows its
> output power and could be programmed to generate the requests. I don't know
> how to get commands into a K3 that has its serial port connected to a
> logging program. There are some port-sharing tools out there that might
> work, but I'm not familiar with them. In any case, it would require some
> engineering at Elecraft. In the meantime, I keep an eye on output and tweak
> the drive manually to stay both powerful and legal.
> 
> /Rick N6XI
> 
> 
> Rick Tavan
> Truckee, CA
> 
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:01 AM, j...@kk9a.com  wrote:
>> 
>> My KPA500 also has slightly inconsistent output. If I recall output drops
>> a little after the first few seconds of key down. Perhaps it is normal for
>> solid state amps as I have never noticed this with a tube amp. This may be
>> more of a concern with a legal limit amp if you want to keep it as close
>> to 1500 watts without going over.
>> 
>> John KK9A
>> 
>> Bill Stravinsky k3wjv wrote:
>> 
>> Yup, as the temp climbs the output drops some.  Even though I'm glad I
>> got the solid state amp I still prefer tubes, hi.  The drop is anywhere
>> between 100 to maybe 300 watts.I never really noted the exact numbers.
>> BillK3WJV
>> p.s. I'm thinking its a normal solid state thing.
>> 
>>On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 4:23:47 PM EDT, K9MA > sdellington.us> wrote:
>> 
>> I'm using the K3 with the Elecraft interface cable.  I've noticed the
>> the CW drive power required by mine varies considerably, both with
>> temperature and SWR.  If I set the K3 output for a KPA1500 output of
>> 1500 W output initially, the output will drop to perhaps 1100 W when the
>> temperature stabilizes at around 65 C.  (I've ruled out any change in
>> antenna impedance, etc.)  A similar change occurs if the SWR goes from
>> 1:1 to 1.2:1 when changing frequency or switching antennas.  I haven't
>> changed the ALC from the default setting.  Has anyone else noticed this?
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Scott K9MA
>> 
>> --
>> Scott  K9MA
>> 
>> k9ma at sdellington.us
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[Rick Tavan]

I've seen some gain drift with temperature, too. I've wondered if there
might be a way to feed back drive power change requests to a K3, or other
radio with adequate command capabilities, to maintain a target output power
(say, 1500w) as the amp warms and cools. This should be done slowly - on
the order of seconds, not milliseconds like ALC. KPA1500 Utility knows its
output power and could be programmed to generate the requests. I don't know
how to get commands into a K3 that has its serial port connected to a
logging program. There are some port-sharing tools out there that might
work, but I'm not familiar with them. In any case, it would require some
engineering at Elecraft. In the meantime, I keep an eye on output and tweak
the drive manually to stay both powerful and legal.

/Rick N6XI


Rick Tavan
Truckee, CA

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:01 AM, j...@kk9a.com  wrote:

> My KPA500 also has slightly inconsistent output. If I recall output drops
> a little after the first few seconds of key down. Perhaps it is normal for
> solid state amps as I have never noticed this with a tube amp. This may be
> more of a concern with a legal limit amp if you want to keep it as close
> to 1500 watts without going over.
>
> John KK9A
>
> Bill Stravinsky k3wjv wrote:
>
>  Yup, as the temp climbs the output drops some.  Even though I'm glad I
> got the solid state amp I still prefer tubes, hi.  The drop is anywhere
> between 100 to maybe 300 watts.I never really noted the exact numbers.
> BillK3WJV
> p.s. I'm thinking its a normal solid state thing.
>
> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 4:23:47 PM EDT, K9MA  sdellington.us> wrote:
>
>  I'm using the K3 with the Elecraft interface cable.  I've noticed the
> the CW drive power required by mine varies considerably, both with
> temperature and SWR.  If I set the K3 output for a KPA1500 output of
> 1500 W output initially, the output will drop to perhaps 1100 W when the
> temperature stabilizes at around 65 C.  (I've ruled out any change in
> antenna impedance, etc.)  A similar change occurs if the SWR goes from
> 1:1 to 1.2:1 when changing frequency or switching antennas.  I haven't
> changed the ALC from the default setting.  Has anyone else noticed this?
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>
> --
> Scott  K9MA
>
> k9ma at sdellington.us
>
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[j...@kk9a.com]

My KPA500 also has slightly inconsistent output. If I recall output drops
a little after the first few seconds of key down. Perhaps it is normal for
solid state amps as I have never noticed this with a tube amp. This may be
more of a concern with a legal limit amp if you want to keep it as close
to 1500 watts without going over.

John KK9A

Bill Stravinsky k3wjv wrote:

 Yup, as the temp climbs the output drops some.  Even though I'm glad I
got the solid state amp I still prefer tubes, hi.  The drop is anywhere
between 100 to maybe 300 watts.I never really noted the exact numbers.
BillK3WJV
p.s. I'm thinking its a normal solid state thing.

On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 4:23:47 PM EDT, K9MA  wrote:

 I'm using the K3 with the Elecraft interface cable.  I've noticed the
the CW drive power required by mine varies considerably, both with
temperature and SWR.  If I set the K3 output for a KPA1500 output of
1500 W output initially, the output will drop to perhaps 1100 W when the
temperature stabilizes at around 65 C.  (I've ruled out any change in
antenna impedance, etc.)  A similar change occurs if the SWR goes from
1:1 to 1.2:1 when changing frequency or switching antennas.  I haven't
changed the ALC from the default setting.  Has anyone else noticed this?

73,

Scott K9MA

-- 
Scott  K9MA

k9ma at sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[Don Butler]

I have experienced power level changes with s/n 45 since day one.  I had 
envisioned setting the K3s config to ‘power per band’, adjusting the power 
level to just below 1500 watts on each band, and then being able to switch 
bands and magically find that the power level is still sitting exactly where I 
left it ….. but no deal … typically, after I return to a band where the level 
had previously been right at 1500 watts, the first couple transmissions (CW) 
will often jump up to 1600-1700 watts …. It drops a little after the first 
couple dits, but I almost always have to readjust and crank down the drive 
power   so I now crank down the drive and readjust every time I change 
bands ….. not what I had hoped for …  and yes,  I also see small decreases in 
power level as the temperature increases as others have noted.

Don, N5LZ


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: K9MA
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 9:42 AM
To: Paul Baldock
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

Yes, turning the drive up a bit restores the output to 1500 W.

I haven't recorded it, but drive seems fairly flat band to band. (The K3, of 
course, saves the drive levels for each band.)

73,
Scott K9MA 

--

Scott Ellington

 --- via iPad

> On May 31, 2018, at 10:16 AM, Paul Baldock  wrote:
> 
> Can you safely increase the drive to get it back to 1500W?
> 
> Another question: Is the drive requirement (amp gain) pretty flat from band 
> to band?
> 
> - Paul  KW7Y
> 
> At 08:10 AM 5/31/2018, Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft wrote:
>> Yup, as the temp climbs the output drops some.  Even though I'm glad I got 
>> the solid state amp I still prefer tubes, hi.  The drop is anywhere between 
>> 100 to maybe 300 watts.I never really noted the exact numbers. BillK3WJV 
>> p.s. I'm thinking its a normal solid state thing. On Wednesday, May 30, 
>> 2018, 4:23:47 PM EDT, K9MA  wrote:  I'm using the K3 
>> with the Elecraft interface cable.  I've noticed the the CW drive power 
>> required by mine varies considerably, both with temperature and SWR.  If I 
>> set the K3 output for a KPA1500 output of 1500 W output initially, the 
>> output will drop to perhaps 1100 W when the temperature stabilizes at around 
>> 65 C.  (I've ruled out any change in antenna impedance, etc.)  A similar 
>> change occurs if the SWR goes from 1:1 to 1.2:1 when changing frequency or 
>> switching antennas.  I haven't changed the ALC from the default setting.  
>> Has anyone else noticed this? 73, Scott K9MA -- Scott  K9MA 
>> k...@sdellington.us 
>> __ Elecraft 
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> 

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[K9MA]

Yes, turning the drive up a bit restores the output to 1500 W.

I haven't recorded it, but drive seems fairly flat band to band. (The K3, of 
course, saves the drive levels for each band.)

73,
Scott K9MA 

--

Scott Ellington

 --- via iPad

> On May 31, 2018, at 10:16 AM, Paul Baldock  wrote:
> 
> Can you safely increase the drive to get it back to 1500W?
> 
> Another question: Is the drive requirement (amp gain) pretty flat from band 
> to band?
> 
> - Paul  KW7Y
> 
> At 08:10 AM 5/31/2018, Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft wrote:
>> Yup, as the temp climbs the output drops some.  Even though I'm glad I got 
>> the solid state amp I still prefer tubes, hi.  The drop is anywhere between 
>> 100 to maybe 300 watts.I never really noted the exact numbers. BillK3WJV 
>> p.s. I'm thinking its a normal solid state thing. On Wednesday, May 30, 
>> 2018, 4:23:47 PM EDT, K9MA  wrote:  I'm using the K3 
>> with the Elecraft interface cable.  I've noticed the the CW drive power 
>> required by mine varies considerably, both with temperature and SWR.  If I 
>> set the K3 output for a KPA1500 output of 1500 W output initially, the 
>> output will drop to perhaps 1100 W when the temperature stabilizes at around 
>> 65 C.  (I've ruled out any change in antenna impedance, etc.)  A similar 
>> change occurs if the SWR goes from 1:1 to 1.2:1 when changing frequency or 
>> switching antennas.  I haven't changed the ALC from the default setting.  
>> Has anyone else noticed this? 73, Scott K9MA -- Scott  K9MA 
>> k...@sdellington.us 
>> __ Elecraft 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[K9MA]

Yes, it does sound like a solid-state thing.  Not enough negative feedback?  It 
may be a reason NOT to run the fans continuously: Once it reaches 60 C, the fan 
control keeps the temperature fairly stable. 

73,
Scott K9MA 

--

Scott Ellington

 --- via iPad

> On May 31, 2018, at 10:10 AM, Bill Stravinsky  wrote:
> 
> Yup, as the temp climbs the output drops some.  Even though I'm glad I got 
> the solid state amp I still prefer tubes, hi.  The drop is anywhere between 
> 100 to maybe 300 watts.
> I never really noted the exact numbers.
> 
> Bill
> K3WJV
> 
> p.s. I'm thinking its a normal solid state thing.
> 
> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 4:23:47 PM EDT, K9MA  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm using the K3 with the Elecraft interface cable.  I've noticed the 
> the CW drive power required by mine varies considerably, both with 
> temperature and SWR.  If I set the K3 output for a KPA1500 output of 
> 1500 W output initially, the output will drop to perhaps 1100 W when the 
> temperature stabilizes at around 65 C.  (I've ruled out any change in 
> antenna impedance, etc.)  A similar change occurs if the SWR goes from 
> 1:1 to 1.2:1 when changing frequency or switching antennas.  I haven't 
> changed the ALC from the default setting.  Has anyone else noticed this?
> 
> 73,
> 
> Scott K9MA
> 
> -- 
> Scott  K9MA
> 
> k...@sdellington.us
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[Paul Baldock]

Can you safely increase the drive to get it back to 1500W?

Another question: Is the drive requirement (amp 
gain) pretty flat from band to band?


- Paul  KW7Y

At 08:10 AM 5/31/2018, Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft wrote:
 Yup, as the temp climbs the output drops 
some.  Even though I'm glad I got the solid 
state amp I still prefer tubes, hi.  The drop 
is anywhere between 100 to maybe 300 watts.I 
never really noted the exact numbers. BillK3WJV 
p.s. I'm thinking its a normal solid state 
thing. On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 4:23:47 
PM EDT, K9MA  wrote:  I'm 
using the K3 with the Elecraft interface 
cable.  I've noticed the the CW drive power 
required by mine varies considerably, both with 
temperature and SWR.  If I set the K3 output 
for a KPA1500 output of 1500 W output 
initially, the output will drop to perhaps 1100 
W when the temperature stabilizes at around 65 
C.  (I've ruled out any change in antenna 
impedance, etc.)Â  A similar change occurs if 
the SWR goes from 1:1 to 1.2:1 when changing 
frequency or switching antennas.  I haven't 
changed the ALC from the default setting.  Has 
anyone else noticed this? 73, Scott K9MA -- 
Scott  K9MA k...@sdellington.us 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

 Yup, as the temp climbs the output drops some.  Even though I'm glad I got the 
solid state amp I still prefer tubes, hi.  The drop is anywhere between 100 to 
maybe 300 watts.I never really noted the exact numbers.
BillK3WJV
p.s. I'm thinking its a normal solid state thing.

On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 4:23:47 PM EDT, K9MA  
wrote:  
 
 I'm using the K3 with the Elecraft interface cable.  I've noticed the 
the CW drive power required by mine varies considerably, both with 
temperature and SWR.  If I set the K3 output for a KPA1500 output of 
1500 W output initially, the output will drop to perhaps 1100 W when the 
temperature stabilizes at around 65 C.  (I've ruled out any change in 
antenna impedance, etc.)  A similar change occurs if the SWR goes from 
1:1 to 1.2:1 when changing frequency or switching antennas.  I haven't 
changed the ALC from the default setting.  Has anyone else noticed this?

73,

Scott K9MA

-- 
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 issue

[Carl Yaffey]

While calling CQ in 6m, I glanced at the LCD and saw that it was lit up but 
blank. Pushing edit and status didn’t restore it. Turning off and back on did. 
??

Carl Yaffey  K8NU
Recording studio.
cyaffeyno_s...@gmail.com 
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com
http://www.bluesswing.com

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Drive Power

[K9MA]

I'm using the K3 with the Elecraft interface cable.  I've noticed the 
the CW drive power required by mine varies considerably, both with 
temperature and SWR.  If I set the K3 output for a KPA1500 output of 
1500 W output initially, the output will drop to perhaps 1100 W when the 
temperature stabilizes at around 65 C.  (I've ruled out any change in 
antenna impedance, etc.)  A similar change occurs if the SWR goes from 
1:1 to 1.2:1 when changing frequency or switching antennas.  I haven't 
changed the ALC from the default setting.  Has anyone else noticed this?


73,

Scott K9MA

--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

[j...@kk9a.com]

If you like computer control of your station, than I agree that the remote
program is a great solution.  I still have stacks of rotator control boxes
and relay switches on my desk and I can make QSOs without a computer, which
is why I suggested something like this
https://www.arraysolutions.com/om-2500-rem for the Elecraft amp.

John KK9A

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy 7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:15 AM, N2TK, Tony  wrote:

> Hi John,
> For a long time I had the Acom 2000A sitting on a shelf in the basement
> right below my feet in the shack. I used their remote box which worked very
> well. I have a KPA500 on the same shelf using KPA500 Remote which also
> works
> very well for controlling the amp. Once the KPA1500 Remote is available I
> would think it would work as well as the KPA500 Remote program to control
> the amp. I can't think of a reason to have additional hardware in the
> shack.
> I am in the process of removing more of the manual controls to the
> basement.
> 73,
> N2TK, Tony
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of j...@kk9a.com
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 9:14 PM
> To: 'Elecraft Reflector' 
> Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern
>
> I imagine that due to the KPA1500's size it requires a higher volume of air
> than a large amplifier would. Its small size and weight make it appealing.
> The Acom 2000 has a control box that is separate from the amp so you really
> never hear the amp run. I am wondering it something similar can be done
> with
> the Elecraft KPA1500, perhaps an option like the K-Pod, so that the noise
> source is further from the operating position?
>
> John KK9A
>
>
>
> Thanks for the offer, Clay. But we actually did extensive thermal analysis
> of both the heat sink and fans, tested many different fan types and
> configurations, and did comparative noise testing of the KPA1500 vs. a
> number of other amps.
>
> As you allude to, there's no magic bullet. Heat must be removed, with
> various physical and electrical constraints to be satisfied.
>
> We have some pretty amazing thermal imaging devices that we use to examine
> heat signatures of electrical components. These were used during R&D, which
> is how we determined that two LDMOS devices were far better than one for
> heat distribution. We also used it to evaluate the design of our very
> large/very thick copper heat spreader. On the production line, we review
> all
> modules for hot spots during burn-in and make sure the cooling is working
> perfectly (onset temperature, air distribution around modules, etc.).
>
> Of course supplemental cooling of various types has been used with
> amplifiers in the past. I believe we have a couple of customers and staff
> experimenting with this idea, and anything that emerges will be posted
> here.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Remote Program

[N2TK, Tony]

Rick,

Was just thinking, I assume that the KPA1500 utility program is like the KPA500 
Utility Program in that you can’t run in though LP Bridge. The KPA500 Remote 
program works fine with LP Bridge.

I will still be able to remote the KPA1500 right away to the basement till the 
KPA1500 Remote program comes out. I will be able to work around that limitation 
for now.

 

73,

N2TK, Tony

 

From: N2TK, Tony [mailto:tony@verizon.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 7:07 AM
To: 'Rick Tavan' 
Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector' 
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Remote Program

 

Hi Rick,

Tnx for the info. I will check that out to get me going till KPA1500 Remote is 
available.

73,

N2TK, Tony

 

From: rta...@gmail.com <mailto:rta...@gmail.com>  [mailto:rta...@gmail.com] On 
Behalf Of Rick Tavan
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 1:58 AM
To: N2TK, Tony mailto:tony@verizon.net> >
Cc: Elecraft Reflector mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net> >
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Remote Program

 

No idea when KPA1500 Remote will appear, Tony, but you don't need it to operate 
the amp remotely. KPA1500 Utility has a very nice Operate page that I have 
found quite adequate to operate my amp in the mountains from a control site in 
the valley. I use Chrome Remote Desktop to view and manipulate it. Windows 
Remote Desktop or Teamviewer do the same thing or you can have a "long" serial 
port (cable or network device). When it arrives, KPA1500 Remote will add 
client/server operation, pretty bar graphs, and maybe more, but I'm surviving 
for now without it.

 

73,

 

/Rick N6XI 





Rick Tavan
Truckee, CA

 

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:26 AM, N2TK, Tony mailto:tony@verizon.net> > wrote:

Any word on the KPA1500 Remote Program? Once the program is available I can
move the KPA1500 alongside my KPA500 on a shelf in the basement.

73,

N2TK, Tony

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

[N2TK, Tony]

Hi John,
For a long time I had the Acom 2000A sitting on a shelf in the basement
right below my feet in the shack. I used their remote box which worked very
well. I have a KPA500 on the same shelf using KPA500 Remote which also works
very well for controlling the amp. Once the KPA1500 Remote is available I
would think it would work as well as the KPA500 Remote program to control
the amp. I can't think of a reason to have additional hardware in the shack.
I am in the process of removing more of the manual controls to the basement.
73,
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of j...@kk9a.com
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 9:14 PM
To: 'Elecraft Reflector' 
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

I imagine that due to the KPA1500's size it requires a higher volume of air
than a large amplifier would. Its small size and weight make it appealing.
The Acom 2000 has a control box that is separate from the amp so you really
never hear the amp run. I am wondering it something similar can be done with
the Elecraft KPA1500, perhaps an option like the K-Pod, so that the noise
source is further from the operating position?

John KK9A



Thanks for the offer, Clay. But we actually did extensive thermal analysis
of both the heat sink and fans, tested many different fan types and
configurations, and did comparative noise testing of the KPA1500 vs. a
number of other amps. 

As you allude to, there's no magic bullet. Heat must be removed, with
various physical and electrical constraints to be satisfied. 

We have some pretty amazing thermal imaging devices that we use to examine
heat signatures of electrical components. These were used during R&D, which
is how we determined that two LDMOS devices were far better than one for
heat distribution. We also used it to evaluate the design of our very
large/very thick copper heat spreader. On the production line, we review all
modules for hot spots during burn-in and make sure the cooling is working
perfectly (onset temperature, air distribution around modules, etc.).

Of course supplemental cooling of various types has been used with
amplifiers in the past. I believe we have a couple of customers and staff
experimenting with this idea, and anything that emerges will be posted here.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Remote Program

[N2TK, Tony]

Hi Rick,

Tnx for the info. I will check that out to get me going till KPA1500 Remote is 
available.

73,

N2TK, Tony

 

From: rta...@gmail.com [mailto:rta...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Rick Tavan
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 1:58 AM
To: N2TK, Tony 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Remote Program

 

No idea when KPA1500 Remote will appear, Tony, but you don't need it to operate 
the amp remotely. KPA1500 Utility has a very nice Operate page that I have 
found quite adequate to operate my amp in the mountains from a control site in 
the valley. I use Chrome Remote Desktop to view and manipulate it. Windows 
Remote Desktop or Teamviewer do the same thing or you can have a "long" serial 
port (cable or network device). When it arrives, KPA1500 Remote will add 
client/server operation, pretty bar graphs, and maybe more, but I'm surviving 
for now without it.

 

73,

 

/Rick N6XI 





Rick Tavan
Truckee, CA

 

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:26 AM, N2TK, Tony mailto:tony@verizon.net> > wrote:

Any word on the KPA1500 Remote Program? Once the program is available I can
move the KPA1500 alongside my KPA500 on a shelf in the basement.

73,

N2TK, Tony

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Remote Program

[Rick Tavan]

No idea when KPA1500 Remote will appear, Tony, but you don't need it to
operate the amp remotely. KPA1500 Utility has a very nice Operate page that
I have found quite adequate to operate my amp in the mountains from a
control site in the valley. I use Chrome Remote Desktop to view and
manipulate it. Windows Remote Desktop or Teamviewer do the same thing or
you can have a "long" serial port (cable or network device). When it
arrives, KPA1500 Remote will add client/server operation, pretty bar
graphs, and maybe more, but I'm surviving for now without it.

73,

/Rick N6XI


Rick Tavan
Truckee, CA

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:26 AM, N2TK, Tony  wrote:

> Any word on the KPA1500 Remote Program? Once the program is available I can
> move the KPA1500 alongside my KPA500 on a shelf in the basement.
>
> 73,
>
> N2TK, Tony
>
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

[Jorge Diez (CX6VM-CW5W)]

That’s will be great! 

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 29 may. 2018, a la(s) 22:47,   escribió:

> I was suggesting an optional hardware controller separate from the amp, not
> operating it remotely though a computer. OM Power, Acom and Henry have done
> this with some of their models.
> 
> John KK9A
> 
> Bill Stravinsky k3wjv wrote 
> Tue May 29 14:40:43 EDT 2018
> 
> 
> John
> I would imagine the 1500 will be remotable just as the 500 is.  A friend of
> mine remotes his 500 to the basement just as he did with his Acom 2000aand
> he is investigating remoting the 1500 he just got.  As for a control box I
> don't know.  Not sure if the amp faults will be visible in the vfo B area
> ofthe K3.  It tells you its on-off or in standby.
> BillK3WJV
> 
> 
> 
>On Monday, May 28, 2018, 9:18:04 PM EDT, john at kk9a.com  kk9a.com> wrote:  
> 
> I imagine that due to the KPA1500's size it requires a higher volume of air
> than a large amplifier would. Its small size and weight make it appealing.
> The Acom 2000 has a control box that is separate from the amp so you really
> never hear the amp run. I am wondering it something similar can be done with
> the Elecraft KPA1500, perhaps an option like the K-Pod, so that the noise
> source is further from the operating position?
> 
> John KK9A
> 
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

[john]

I was suggesting an optional hardware controller separate from the amp, not
operating it remotely though a computer. OM Power, Acom and Henry have done
this with some of their models.

John KK9A

Bill Stravinsky k3wjv wrote 
Tue May 29 14:40:43 EDT 2018


John
I would imagine the 1500 will be remotable just as the 500 is.  A friend of
mine remotes his 500 to the basement just as he did with his Acom 2000aand
he is investigating remoting the 1500 he just got.  As for a control box I
don't know.  Not sure if the amp faults will be visible in the vfo B area
ofthe K3.  It tells you its on-off or in standby.
BillK3WJV



On Monday, May 28, 2018, 9:18:04 PM EDT, john at kk9a.com  wrote:  
 
 I imagine that due to the KPA1500's size it requires a higher volume of air
than a large amplifier would. Its small size and weight make it appealing.
The Acom 2000 has a control box that is separate from the amp so you really
never hear the amp run. I am wondering it something similar can be done with
the Elecraft KPA1500, perhaps an option like the K-Pod, so that the noise
source is further from the operating position?

John KK9A

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 remote program

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Hi Tony,

We are working on it now and should have a beta version for customer testing in 
the next couple of weeks.

73,

Eric
elecraft.com
_..._



> On May 29, 2018, at 2:21 PM, N2TK, Tony  wrote:
> 
> Any word on the Remote Program for the KPA1500? The KPA500 Remote Program
> works fine and allowed me to move the amp to the basement. I want to do
> likewise with the KPA1500.
> 
> 73,
> 
> N2TK, Tony
> 
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 remote program

[N2TK, Tony]

Any word on the Remote Program for the KPA1500? The KPA500 Remote Program
works fine and allowed me to move the amp to the basement. I want to do
likewise with the KPA1500.

73,

N2TK, Tony

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

 John
I would imagine the 1500 will be remotable just as the 500 is.  A friend of 
mine remotes his 500 to the basement just as he did with his Acom 2000aand he 
is investigating remoting the 1500 he just got.  As for a control box I don't 
know.  Not sure if the amp faults will be visible in the vfo B area ofthe K3.  
It tells you its on-off or in standby.
BillK3WJV



On Monday, May 28, 2018, 9:18:04 PM EDT, j...@kk9a.com  
wrote:  
 
 I imagine that due to the KPA1500's size it requires a higher volume of air
than a large amplifier would. Its small size and weight make it appealing.
The Acom 2000 has a control box that is separate from the amp so you really
never hear the amp run. I am wondering it something similar can be done with
the Elecraft KPA1500, perhaps an option like the K-Pod, so that the noise
source is further from the operating position?

John KK9A



Thanks for the offer, Clay. But we actually did extensive thermal analysis
of both the heat sink and fans, tested many different fan types and
configurations, and did comparative noise testing of the KPA1500 vs. a
number of other amps. 

As you allude to, there's no magic bullet. Heat must be removed, with
various physical and electrical constraints to be satisfied. 

We have some pretty amazing thermal imaging devices that we use to examine
heat signatures of electrical components. These were used during R&D, which
is how we determined that two LDMOS devices were far better than one for
heat distribution. We also used it to evaluate the design of our very
large/very thick copper heat spreader. On the production line, we review all
modules for hot spots during burn-in and make sure the cooling is working
perfectly (onset temperature, air distribution around modules, etc.).

Of course supplemental cooling of various types has been used with
amplifiers in the past. I believe we have a couple of customers and staff
experimenting with this idea, and anything that emerges will be posted here.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

[john]

I imagine that due to the KPA1500's size it requires a higher volume of air
than a large amplifier would. Its small size and weight make it appealing.
The Acom 2000 has a control box that is separate from the amp so you really
never hear the amp run. I am wondering it something similar can be done with
the Elecraft KPA1500, perhaps an option like the K-Pod, so that the noise
source is further from the operating position?

John KK9A



Thanks for the offer, Clay. But we actually did extensive thermal analysis
of both the heat sink and fans, tested many different fan types and
configurations, and did comparative noise testing of the KPA1500 vs. a
number of other amps. 

As you allude to, there's no magic bullet. Heat must be removed, with
various physical and electrical constraints to be satisfied. 

We have some pretty amazing thermal imaging devices that we use to examine
heat signatures of electrical components. These were used during R&D, which
is how we determined that two LDMOS devices were far better than one for
heat distribution. We also used it to evaluate the design of our very
large/very thick copper heat spreader. On the production line, we review all
modules for hot spots during burn-in and make sure the cooling is working
perfectly (onset temperature, air distribution around modules, etc.).

Of course supplemental cooling of various types has been used with
amplifiers in the past. I believe we have a couple of customers and staff
experimenting with this idea, and anything that emerges will be posted here.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

[Wayne Burdick]

Thanks for the offer, Clay. But we actually did extensive thermal analysis of 
both the heat sink and fans, tested many different fan types and 
configurations, and did comparative noise testing of the KPA1500 vs. a number 
of other amps. 

As you allude to, there’s no magic bullet. Heat must be removed, with various 
physical and electrical constraints to be satisfied. 

We have some pretty amazing thermal imaging devices that we use to examine heat 
signatures of electrical components. These were used during R&D, which is how 
we determined that two LDMOS devices were far better than one for heat 
distribution. We also used it to evaluate the design of our very large/very 
thick copper heat spreader. On the production line, we review all modules for 
hot spots during burn-in and make sure the cooling is working perfectly (onset 
temperature, air distribution around modules, etc.).

Of course supplemental cooling of various types has been used with amplifiers 
in the past. I believe we have a couple of customers and staff experimenting 
with this idea, and anything that emerges will be posted here.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



> On May 28, 2018, at 4:34 PM, Clay Autery  wrote:
> 
> I don't have a fancy schmancy degree in acoustic design, but in my 20+ years 
> of thermal control design for computing and other electronic products, I 
> necessarily dealt with acoustic design as it pertains to device chassis.  
> They are often competing demands.
> One of my main selling points to many of my clients was that while meeting 
> their requirements for thermal control, I could generally improve (reduce) 
> the acoustic stress on their staff.  I had several long-term relationships 
> where they kept adding adjunct projects to the original contract that were 
> primarily acoustic and only secondarily thermal control as a result.
> 
> I'd be happy to trade some "free thermal/acoustic" analysis time on the 
> KPA-1500 in return for the simple pleasure of having one on the bench during 
> the process.  
> Assuming I can produce a viable/economically feasible solution for both the 
> company and customer base, perhaps a deal could be reached on a price to 
> avoid returning the "test bed". 
> 
> Wayne?  Eric?
> 
> 73,
> 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> (318) 518-1389
> 
> On 05/28/18 15:33, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On 5/28/2018 11:24 AM, Ralph Parker wrote:
>>> I ordered the '1500 In the quest to be a couple of instant db louder, but 
>>> if I don't hear some resolution of the noise 'problem', I'm going to put 
>>> the order on hold until it is solved. I do have many headsets which I 
>>> usually wear, including the Bose QC15 noise cancelling model, but I'd hate 
>>> to be FORCED into using them.
>> 
>> This is exactly one of the many issues that Acoustic Consultants address in 
>> the design of buildings that house recording studios, concert halls, and 
>> student practice halls in music colleges. I regularly worked with 
>> world-class guys in my own consulting practice, which only did sound system 
>> design, and I learned just enough to know that I shouldn't try to do their 
>> work. :)  There are many elements to the design problem, and the fan itself 
>> is only one of them. Other elements I'm aware of is turbulence of air flow, 
>> mechanical vibration coupled from the fan to the structure to which it is 
>> mounted, where the fan(s) are located, and so on.
>> 
>> I don't know if one of them was involved with Elecraft, but if not, I'd 
>> suggest that Elecraft buy some time from one of them. And I'd be happy to 
>> provide names of some good people/firms. In the early K3 days, I referred a 
>> good acoustics guy to Wayne to solve the problem of acoustic coupling 
>> between the speaker and the synthesizer that added a sideband to RTTY, and 
>> suggested adding the stiffener to that board solved the problem and became a 
>> running mod.
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

[Clay Autery]

I don't have a fancy schmancy degree in acoustic design, but in my 20+ 
years of thermal control design for computing and other electronic 
products, I necessarily dealt with acoustic design as it pertains to 
device chassis.  They are often competing demands.
One of my main selling points to many of my clients was that while 
meeting their requirements for thermal control, I could generally 
improve (reduce) the acoustic stress on their staff.  I had several 
long-term relationships where they kept adding adjunct projects to the 
original contract that were primarily acoustic and only secondarily 
thermal control as a result.


I'd be happy to trade some "free thermal/acoustic" analysis time on the 
KPA-1500 in return for the simple pleasure of having one on the bench 
during the process.  
Assuming I can produce a viable/economically feasible solution for both 
the company and customer base, perhaps a deal could be reached on a 
price to avoid returning the "test bed". 


Wayne?  Eric?

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 05/28/18 15:33, Jim Brown wrote:

On 5/28/2018 11:24 AM, Ralph Parker wrote:
I ordered the '1500 In the quest to be a couple of instant db louder, 
but if I don't hear some resolution of the noise 'problem', I'm going 
to put the order on hold until it is solved. I do have many headsets 
which I usually wear, including the Bose QC15 noise cancelling model, 
but I'd hate to be FORCED into using them.


This is exactly one of the many issues that Acoustic Consultants 
address in the design of buildings that house recording studios, 
concert halls, and student practice halls in music colleges. I 
regularly worked with world-class guys in my own consulting practice, 
which only did sound system design, and I learned just enough to know 
that I shouldn't try to do their work. :)  There are many elements to 
the design problem, and the fan itself is only one of them. Other 
elements I'm aware of is turbulence of air flow, mechanical vibration 
coupled from the fan to the structure to which it is mounted, where 
the fan(s) are located, and so on.


I don't know if one of them was involved with Elecraft, but if not, 
I'd suggest that Elecraft buy some time from one of them. And I'd be 
happy to provide names of some good people/firms. In the early K3 
days, I referred a good acoustics guy to Wayne to solve the problem of 
acoustic coupling between the speaker and the synthesizer that added a 
sideband to RTTY, and suggested adding the stiffener to that board 
solved the problem and became a running mod.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

[K9MA]

My KPA1500 seems to max out at about 65 C when running and calling CQ.  
At that temperature, the fans are just barely audible with the 
Radiosport headset.  That would be way too loud for me with any other 
headset I've used, let along a speaker.  While it has other big 
advantages, the noise level is about as bad as that of my old AL-82.  Of 
course, the KPA1500 could be located in another room.


73,
Scott K9MA


On 5/28/2018 13:24, Ralph Parker wrote:
I'm on the list for a '1500, expected sometime in August (maybe). 
However, I'm getting concerned about the reported high fan noise level.
I currently have a '500, and following a suggestion a year or two ago, 
I've turned the fans around 'backwards' and they seem to be quieter in 
this configuration. I would give the '500 a "quiet" in the noise 
department. Temperature does not seem to be an issue.


In addition, I have an Acom 1000, which is also a quiet amp - fan as 
well as relays. Hard to hear it in operation (but the 3 minute warmup 
usually seems like three hours. :-)


I ordered the '1500 In the quest to be a couple of instant db louder, 
but if I don't hear some resolution of the noise 'problem', I'm going 
to put the order on hold until it is solved. I do have many headsets 
which I usually wear, including the Bose QC15 noise cancelling model, 
but I'd hate to be FORCED into using them.


A concerned citizen.

VE7XF
(over 30 years of sound recording wearing a headset)

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Scott  K9MA

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

[Carl Yaffey]

Well, I manually set the fan to 2 when I’m going to use the amp heavily. It’s a 
bit noisy but acceptable to me.
73


Carl Yaffey  K8NU
Recording studio.
cyaffeyno_s...@gmail.com 
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com
http://www.bluesswing.com

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

[Jim Brown]

On 5/28/2018 11:24 AM, Ralph Parker wrote:
I ordered the '1500 In the quest to be a couple of instant db louder, 
but if I don't hear some resolution of the noise 'problem', I'm going 
to put the order on hold until it is solved. I do have many headsets 
which I usually wear, including the Bose QC15 noise cancelling model, 
but I'd hate to be FORCED into using them.


This is exactly one of the many issues that Acoustic Consultants address 
in the design of buildings that house recording studios, concert halls, 
and student practice halls in music colleges. I regularly worked with 
world-class guys in my own consulting practice, which only did sound 
system design, and I learned just enough to know that I shouldn't try to 
do their work. :)  There are many elements to the design problem, and 
the fan itself is only one of them. Other elements I'm aware of is 
turbulence of air flow, mechanical vibration coupled from the fan to the 
structure to which it is mounted, where the fan(s) are located, and so on.


I don't know if one of them was involved with Elecraft, but if not, I'd 
suggest that Elecraft buy some time from one of them. And I'd be happy 
to provide names of some good people/firms. In the early K3 days, I 
referred a good acoustics guy to Wayne to solve the problem of acoustic 
coupling between the speaker and the synthesizer that added a sideband 
to RTTY, and suggested adding the stiffener to that board solved the 
problem and became a running mod.


73, Jim K9YC



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[Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noise concern

[Ralph Parker]

I'm on the list for a '1500, expected sometime in August (maybe). 
However, I'm getting concerned about the reported high fan noise level.
I currently have a '500, and following a suggestion a year or two ago, 
I've turned the fans around 'backwards' and they seem to be quieter in 
this configuration. I would give the '500 a "quiet" in the noise 
department. Temperature does not seem to be an issue.


In addition, I have an Acom 1000, which is also a quiet amp - fan as 
well as relays. Hard to hear it in operation (but the 3 minute warmup 
usually seems like three hours. :-)


I ordered the '1500 In the quest to be a couple of instant db louder, 
but if I don't hear some resolution of the noise 'problem', I'm going to 
put the order on hold until it is solved. I do have many headsets which 
I usually wear, including the Bose QC15 noise cancelling model, but I'd 
hate to be FORCED into using them.


A concerned citizen.

VE7XF
(over 30 years of sound recording wearing a headset)

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Remote Program

[N2TK, Tony]

Any word on the KPA1500 Remote Program? Once the program is available I can
move the KPA1500 alongside my KPA500 on a shelf in the basement.

73,

N2TK, Tony

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500, First Contest

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

 Scott
Are you also getting temp fluctuations in xmit and how much?  Mine is dependant 
on the temp, at lower temps the fluctuation is less than if up at 60Cand mine 
only happens on 40 mtrs.  Spoke with an Elecraft engineer and this could 
possibly result in a mod surrounding the temp sensor.
BillK3WJV

On Wednesday, May 23, 2018, 10:22:01 AM EDT, K9MA  
wrote:  
 
 OK, just a CWT mini-test.  Max. temperature when running was 63 C, fan 
noise not an issue with Radiosport headset.  The flashing SWR lights, 
stopped in PTT mode.  Temperature jumping around when transmitting 
persists in PTT mode, but stable on receive.  Power gain seems to drift 
around a bit, probably temperature dependent, not a big deal.  (I'm 
pretty sure the K3 output is stable.)

73,

Scott K9MA

-- 
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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[Elecraft] KPA1500, First Contest

[K9MA]

OK, just a CWT mini-test.  Max. temperature when running was 63 C, fan 
noise not an issue with Radiosport headset.  The flashing SWR lights, 
stopped in PTT mode.  Temperature jumping around when transmitting 
persists in PTT mode, but stable on receive.  Power gain seems to drift 
around a bit, probably temperature dependent, not a big deal.  (I'm 
pretty sure the K3 output is stable.)


73,

Scott K9MA

--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Ethernet

[John Langdon]

Has anyone tried communicating with their KPA1500 via the RJ45 Ethernet 
interface?  Que paso?

73 John N5CQ


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Buck
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 7:14 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU

After you've trained the ATU, switch it to manual mode

k4ia, Buck
K3# 101
Honor Roll  8B DXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 5/21/2018 11:43 PM, K9MA wrote:
> After "training" the ATU across part of the band and, I think, setting 
> up the K3 so it should track, I notice some strange behavior.  As I 
> tune to a different segment of the band, and stop, there's a delay or 
> a second or so before the ATU relays switch. Other times, even though 
> it's already been tuned to the new frequency, it doesn't switch until 
> transmission starts which, of course, garbles the first character.  Am 
> I doing something wrong, or have others notice this behavior?  I 
> assumed that once the ATU has been tuned to each band segment, it 
> would switch as soon as the K3 was tuned to a new segment (if 
> necessary), so it would be ready to go when transmission starts.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Scott K9MA
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU

[K9MA]

I'll try that, but I suspect the delay in switching the ATU will 
persist.  I'd like the option to turn off that delay, so the beginning 
of my call isn't cut off.


73,
Scott K9MA

On 5/22/2018 07:13, Buck wrote:

After you've trained the ATU, switch it to manual mode

k4ia, Buck
K3# 101
Honor Roll  8B DXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 5/21/2018 11:43 PM, K9MA wrote:
After "training" the ATU across part of the band and, I think, 
setting up the K3 so it should track, I notice some strange 
behavior.  As I tune to a different segment of the band, and stop, 
there's a delay or a second or so before the ATU relays switch. Other 
times, even though it's already been tuned to the new frequency, it 
doesn't switch until transmission starts which, of course, garbles 
the first character.  Am I doing something wrong, or have others 
notice this behavior?  I assumed that once the ATU has been tuned to 
each band segment, it would switch as soon as the K3 was tuned to a 
new segment (if necessary), so it would be ready to go when 
transmission starts.


73,

Scott K9MA


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Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU

[Buck]

After you've trained the ATU, switch it to manual mode

k4ia, Buck
K3# 101
Honor Roll  8B DXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 5/21/2018 11:43 PM, K9MA wrote:
After "training" the ATU across part of the band and, I think, setting 
up the K3 so it should track, I notice some strange behavior.  As I tune 
to a different segment of the band, and stop, there's a delay or a 
second or so before the ATU relays switch. Other times, even though it's 
already been tuned to the new frequency, it doesn't switch until 
transmission starts which, of course, garbles the first character.  Am I 
doing something wrong, or have others notice this behavior?  I assumed 
that once the ATU has been tuned to each band segment, it would switch 
as soon as the K3 was tuned to a new segment (if necessary), so it would 
be ready to go when transmission starts.


73,

Scott K9MA


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noises

[Roy Koeppe]

About-

"Take care in the application of added cooling efforts"

Yes, but the proof is in the pudding; watching LEDs display the amp's temp, 
the readings are always cooler with the aux fans running. One reason is that 
between transmissions they continue running and reset the temp back to near 
ambient room temp instead of around 50C where the stock fans shut off. My 
operating is QSK rag-chewing, breaking back forth in round tables. Fans do 
remain off then nearly always. P.S...my 4.5-inch, 48-volt muffins cost a 
whopping $1.86 each! Guess no one wants 48V. If bearings wear out, so what. 
:-)


73,

RoyK6XKIowa 



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[Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU

[K9MA]

After "training" the ATU across part of the band and, I think, setting 
up the K3 so it should track, I notice some strange behavior.  As I tune 
to a different segment of the band, and stop, there's a delay or a 
second or so before the ATU relays switch. Other times, even though it's 
already been tuned to the new frequency, it doesn't switch until 
transmission starts which, of course, garbles the first character.  Am I 
doing something wrong, or have others notice this behavior?  I assumed 
that once the ATU has been tuned to each band segment, it would switch 
as soon as the K3 was tuned to a new segment (if necessary), so it would 
be ready to go when transmission starts.


73,

Scott K9MA

--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan noises

[Roy Koeppe]

"The benefit to putting fans in back blowing through the stock
screen/fans is that you get the slight added benefit of over-pressuring
the chassis which tends to keep the chassis interior cleaner. Assuming
adequate rear spacing, you can hide the fans a bit more"

Yes. and the ultimate is placing them remotely in the closet with a clothes 
dryer hose leading to that plenum sitting at the back air intake coupling. 
Care must be taken so as not to ever restrict air intake to the internal 
fans when they're running at max speed.


Roy


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Re: [Elecraft] kpa1500 new issue

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

 Well, I just spoke with Elecraft and it appears this problem was one they had 
run across in early engineering.  I sent them the config file which might have 
some indicatorsthey can look at and make some determinations.  But if it turns 
out to be what the engineer said it might, there might be a fix that is needed 
to cure this if the temp swing istoo much.
Film at eleven.
BillK3WJV

On Monday, May 21, 2018, 12:58:37 AM EDT, Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft 
 wrote:  
 
 In the last few days I have made about 21 Qso's with the new amp casually and 
about 75 Q's in a few contests over the weekend.  The first night I had a 
problem that seemedto disappear.  It only happened on 40mtrs.  I was xmitting 
and the power dropped like I went into stby but no indications on the front 
panel other than the power LED's showinga power drop.  I chalked it up to maybe 
not having things setup right as it hasn't happened again.
But tonite I was making some 40 mtr Q's and everything looked normal except the 
temp was jumping from 6 to 8 degrees low, meaning the temp was climbing 
normally then itwould fluctuate rapidly down about 6 degrees.  If I stopped 
xmitting the temp was stabile but xmitting it would jump down and back up 
quickly.  And now as I'm typing this postthe temp has gone down to normal but 
the same thing is now happening.  Every time I xmit the temp jumps down about 6 
degrees and fluctuates back and forth.
I checked on 20 mtrs and it doesn't happen there so either I've got some rf 
floating around on 40 or there is a problem in the amp.  I ran the power down 
and it happens all theway down to about 500 watts out but only fluctuates about 
4 degrees.  Just checked on 80 and its OK there.  So will look into this tmrw 
some more.
BillK3WJV
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speeds and fan noise

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

 Feel free to do that with your kpa1500.  While you're at it test how long it 
takes to reach 60C with and without the modified fan system.I'm comfy with 
hearing the fans come on and I even set the fan speed to 1 or 2 if I'm in a 
contest mode.  I don't think there's a thing astoo much cooling for a solid 
state amp running 1500 watts.  The brief time I've played with mine it doesn't 
take too long to get to 60Cif you xmit enough.
Good luck.
BillK3WJV

On Monday, May 21, 2018, 5:11:01 PM EDT, hawley, charles j jr 
 wrote:  
 
 Seems like if the internal fans don't go on, that means the fan on the top is 
cooling the amp.

Chuck Hawley
 c-haw...@illinois.edu

 Amateur Radio, KE9UW
 aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles

From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on 
behalf of Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft [elecraft@mailman.qth.net]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 8:01 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speeds and fan noise

 That doesn't move any air across the heat sink or solid state devices that 
need the air.  The air that comes out of those vents starts at the fans in the 
rear.
BillK3WJV

    On Monday, May 21, 2018, 6:07:22 AM EDT, Roy Koeppe  wrote:

 All,

My solution is two 4.5-inch, 48-volt dc muffin fans sitting on half-inch
tall rubber feet covering the top exhaust vent on amp. They are running on a
19-volt supply at a slow but effective cooling speed and are very quiet
(drawing air upward). During normal CW rag chewing the main fans do not come
on -- a vast improvement for a few bucks. When you go portable, just leave
'em home.

73,    Roy        K6XK












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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speeds and fan noise

[hawley, charles j jr]

Seems like if the internal fans don't go on, that means the fan on the top is 
cooling the amp.

Chuck Hawley
 c-haw...@illinois.edu

 Amateur Radio, KE9UW
 aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles

From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on 
behalf of Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft [elecraft@mailman.qth.net]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 8:01 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speeds and fan noise

 That doesn't move any air across the heat sink or solid state devices that 
need the air.  The air that comes out of those vents starts at the fans in the 
rear.
BillK3WJV

On Monday, May 21, 2018, 6:07:22 AM EDT, Roy Koeppe  wrote:

 All,

My solution is two 4.5-inch, 48-volt dc muffin fans sitting on half-inch
tall rubber feet covering the top exhaust vent on amp. They are running on a
19-volt supply at a slow but effective cooling speed and are very quiet
(drawing air upward). During normal CW rag chewing the main fans do not come
on -- a vast improvement for a few bucks. When you go portable, just leave
'em home.

73,RoyK6XK












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[Elecraft] KPA1500, First Impressions

[K9MA]

So far, all looks good.  My only concern is that the ATU doesn't always 
find a good match, even when the antenna is below 2:1. With the default 
"stop" threshold set to 1.2, it often stops at 1.6:1 or greater.  A 
second tuning sometime helps a bit. Increasing tune power to 20W didn't 
help much. It seems the ATU ought to be able to do better than that with 
a 2:1 load.  Has anyone else noticed this?


That said, integration with the K3 seems to have gone without a hitch.

73,

Scott K9MA

--
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k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speeds and fan noise

[Walter Underwood]

> On May 21, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you are going to depend on those 2 fans sucking hot air out of the amp 
> instead of using the internal fans that push it where it needs to go, I think 
> you arepulling hot air out of the amp and that hot air has already done its 
> damage.
> BillK3WJV


And pulling cool air in, probably through those big holes with fans in them, 
right where it needs to go. And if the amp gets hot, the built-in fans come on.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speeds and fan noise

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

 If you are going to depend on those 2 fans sucking hot air out of the amp 
instead of using the internal fans that push it where it needs to go, I think 
you arepulling hot air out of the amp and that hot air has already done its 
damage.
BillK3WJV

On Monday, May 21, 2018, 3:29:29 PM EDT, Roy Koeppe  wrote:  
 
 Yes it does, normally air flow is from rear to top. The fans placed over the 
exhaust vent on top create a partial vacuum, drawing in air through the idle 
(or running) fans on the rear apron and out the top just like when the 
regular fans are doing that job.

Roy    K6XK


"That doesn't move any air across the heat sink or solid state devices that 
need the air.  The air that comes out of those vents starts at the fans in 
the rear."
BillK3WJV

    On Monday, May 21, 2018, 6:07:22 AM EDT, Roy Koeppe  
wrote:

All,

My solution is two 4.5-inch, 48-volt dc muffin fans sitting on half-inch
tall rubber feet covering the top exhaust vent on amp. They are running on a
19-volt supply at a slow but effective cooling speed and are very quiet
(drawing air upward). During normal CW rag chewing the main fans do not come
on -- a vast improvement for a few bucks. When you go portable, just leave
'em home.

73,    Roy        K6XK



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speeds and fan noise

[Roy Koeppe]

Yes it does, normally air flow is from rear to top. The fans placed over the 
exhaust vent on top create a partial vacuum, drawing in air through the idle 
(or running) fans on the rear apron and out the top just like when the 
regular fans are doing that job.


RoyK6XK


"That doesn't move any air across the heat sink or solid state devices that 
need the air.  The air that comes out of those vents starts at the fans in 
the rear."

BillK3WJV

   On Monday, May 21, 2018, 6:07:22 AM EDT, Roy Koeppe  
wrote:


All,

My solution is two 4.5-inch, 48-volt dc muffin fans sitting on half-inch
tall rubber feet covering the top exhaust vent on amp. They are running on a
19-volt supply at a slow but effective cooling speed and are very quiet
(drawing air upward). During normal CW rag chewing the main fans do not come
on -- a vast improvement for a few bucks. When you go portable, just leave
'em home.

73,RoyK6XK



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speeds and fan noise

[Ed Gray W0SD]

I have a KPA-1500  #171 and when I set the fans at 1 the air is being 
pulled from the back by only the middle fan on  the back. The air is 
exiting out the top cover, front, right.  This exit area is just a 
little over 5" x 8".  I feel a good deal of air coming out the top 
evenly distributed over the 5" x 8" area.


Set at position 2, 3, 4 and 5 all three fans run and the fan speed is 
increased with each setting.  2 is IMHO is not very noisy, 3 is more 
noise than I like if ran continuously. Sporadically would be OK assuming 
it would not be needed a lot. 4 and especially 5 are noisy.  However I 
would think you would only need 4 or 5 with lots of TX in RTTY or WSJT 
modes so one would not need to be concerned about mic pick up however I 
will say 4 and 5 are not pleasant to listen to.  More to be learned by 
me but I suspect letting the fan be regulated by the temperature rather 
than a fixed setting may be the way to go for lots of TX in RTTY or WSJT.


Anyway the air comes in the back and goes out the top cover on the KPA-1500.

Ed W0SD



On 5/21/2018 9:13 AM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

>From the KPA500 kit build manual:

"If airflow arrows are visible on the fan housing, they will show that air will be 
blown out of the back of the KPA500."


It was a bit surprising to me that the KPA500 fan airflow is the opposite of 
natural convective flow but I accepted that was the intended design.  My KPA500 
fan does pull air in the top and exhaust it out of the back.


"They are running on a 19-volt supply at a slow but effective cooling speed and are 
very quiet (drawing air upward)."


Do the KPA1500 fans push air into the box? If so, why doesn't the KPA500 fan do 
that. If the KPA1500 fans pull out of the box why would it be appropriate to 
use an additional fan that opposes this airflow?


73,

Andy k3wyc
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speeds and fan noise

[ANDY DURBIN]

>From the KPA500 kit build manual:

"If airflow arrows are visible on the fan housing, they will show that air will 
be blown out of the back of the KPA500."


It was a bit surprising to me that the KPA500 fan airflow is the opposite of 
natural convective flow but I accepted that was the intended design.  My KPA500 
fan does pull air in the top and exhaust it out of the back.


"They are running on a 19-volt supply at a slow but effective cooling speed and 
are very quiet (drawing air upward)."


Do the KPA1500 fans push air into the box? If so, why doesn't the KPA500 fan do 
that. If the KPA1500 fans pull out of the box why would it be appropriate to 
use an additional fan that opposes this airflow?


73,

Andy k3wyc
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speeds and fan noise

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

 That doesn't move any air across the heat sink or solid state devices that 
need the air.  The air that comes out of those vents starts at the fans in the 
rear.
BillK3WJV

On Monday, May 21, 2018, 6:07:22 AM EDT, Roy Koeppe  wrote:  
 
 All,

My solution is two 4.5-inch, 48-volt dc muffin fans sitting on half-inch 
tall rubber feet covering the top exhaust vent on amp. They are running on a 
19-volt supply at a slow but effective cooling speed and are very quiet 
(drawing air upward). During normal CW rag chewing the main fans do not come 
on -- a vast improvement for a few bucks. When you go portable, just leave 
'em home.

73,    Roy        K6XK












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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speeds and fan noise

[Roy Koeppe]

All,

My solution is two 4.5-inch, 48-volt dc muffin fans sitting on half-inch 
tall rubber feet covering the top exhaust vent on amp. They are running on a 
19-volt supply at a slow but effective cooling speed and are very quiet 
(drawing air upward). During normal CW rag chewing the main fans do not come 
on -- a vast improvement for a few bucks. When you go portable, just leave 
'em home.


73,Roy K6XK












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[Elecraft] kpa1500 new issue

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

In the last few days I have made about 21 Qso's with the new amp casually and 
about 75 Q's in a few contests over the weekend.  The first night I had a 
problem that seemedto disappear.  It only happened on 40mtrs.  I was xmitting 
and the power dropped like I went into stby but no indications on the front 
panel other than the power LED's showinga power drop.  I chalked it up to maybe 
not having things setup right as it hasn't happened again.
But tonite I was making some 40 mtr Q's and everything looked normal except the 
temp was jumping from 6 to 8 degrees low, meaning the temp was climbing 
normally then itwould fluctuate rapidly down about 6 degrees.  If I stopped 
xmitting the temp was stabile but xmitting it would jump down and back up 
quickly.  And now as I'm typing this postthe temp has gone down to normal but 
the same thing is now happening.  Every time I xmit the temp jumps down about 6 
degrees and fluctuates back and forth.
I checked on 20 mtrs and it doesn't happen there so either I've got some rf 
floating around on 40 or there is a problem in the amp.  I ran the power down 
and it happens all theway down to about 500 watts out but only fluctuates about 
4 degrees.  Just checked on 80 and its OK there.  So will look into this tmrw 
some more.
BillK3WJV
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speed interrogation

[Clay Autery]

Oops!  Ouch!!  I don't use the programming functions yet, but I would 
suggest perhaps farming out the updating of the Programmer's References 
for the K3, K3s, KPA500, and KPA1500 to an interested Elecraft user 
willing to stay right on top of the changes and produce change docs, or 
updated base docs for review/approval by Elecraft proper...


Heck, I might even consider volunteering for the task.

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 05/20/18 11:09, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

I received an off list email explaining that ^FS is not included in The KPA1500 
command set but may be added later.


It seems the reason it was not included is that the KPA500 Programmer's 
reference was used as starting point for the KPA1500 command set.  That 
document has not been kept up to date as new commands have been added.


73,

Andy k3wyc


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 fan speed interrogation

[ANDY DURBIN]

I received an off list email explaining that ^FS is not included in The KPA1500 
command set but may be added later.


It seems the reason it was not included is that the KPA500 Programmer's 
reference was used as starting point for the KPA1500 command set.  That 
document has not been kept up to date as new commands have been added.


73,

Andy k3wyc





From: ANDY DURBIN 
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 7:47 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: KPA1500 fan speed interrogation


The KPA500 provides a serial interface command ^FS; which returns the fan 
speed.   This command is not included in the KPA500 Programmer's Reference but 
is mentioned in a firmware release note.


The KPA1500 Programming Reference does not mention  the ^FS; command.   Is fan 
speed interrogation available for the KPA1500?


73,

Andy k3wyc
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 S/N 160 delivered today

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

 Larry
The zero just means that the fans are off (manually).  You can set the fans to 
be on at speeds 1 through 5 regardless of temp.  They will stay on 
continually.That said, the fans will operate automatically according to temp.  
They will ramp up as the temp increases.  I think the first to engage is the 
center fan but youcan easily see this yourself.  I did some CQing in the King 
of Spain contest to get the temp up and test things out.  They indeed came on 
at 60C.  I forgetwhere I stopped, I think at 71C, but the fans will come on 
starting at 60C with the fan speed on zero.
I  will give it a more robust test this Wednesday during the cwts but that is 
only a one hour test.  During WPX at the end of the month I will probably set 
thefan speed to 2 to get more cooling power below 60C.  When the PF1 & PF2 
buttons become programmable I will probably set them to turn the fans on or 
off.For me a fan speed of 2 is acceptable during a major contest situation even 
with headphones off which I really never do normally.

I did find it interesting tonight to see my shack tv get blanked out on xmit.  
I only checked 3 bands.  TV was ok on 80mtrs but blanked the picture and 
soundout on 20 & 40 mtrs, hi.  That never happened with either of my tube amps. 
 I will look into that at a later date.
Good luck with your amp.
BillK3WJV
p.s.  The pwr supply fans run whenever you turn the amp on but fans set at zero 
no amp fans should be on until 60C.

On Friday, May 18, 2018, 6:07:03 PM EDT, Larry (K8UT)  
wrote:  
 
 Bill,

My KPA1500 also defaulted to FAN SPEED MIN = 0, but that is not fans off 
(at least not on my amplifier).

My fans engage at 60c (low), 65c (medium) and 70c (egads).

Is there a menu explanation somewhere about the start/stop temps and 
speeds? I would like a little more hysteresis in the 60c setting: start 
at 60c but continue cooling until temp drops to 50c. That might work a 
little better when running digital modes with long Tx/Rx intervals.

-larry (K8UT)

-- Original Message --
From: "Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft" 
To: "Elecraft Reflector" 
Sent: 2018-05-18 15:41:49
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 S/N 160 delivered today

>After having played with mine extensively last night, I was under the 
>impression that the fans would come on automatically when the temp 
>reached a certain degree.That is not the case. Mine was defaulted at 
>fan speed zero, which is fans off. You have to change the menu item for 
>fans to one of your liking. I had read a few postshere on the reflector 
>about 2 being an acceptable number. I agree.
>If you crank it up to max (5) you might scare the dog, be careful, hi.
>BillK3WJV
>
>On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, 5:59:02 PM EDT, Roy Koeppe  
>wrote:
>
>Works perfectly so far. The fans have never come on during my testing
>periods, including at full power. Power supply fans under the table are
>quiet. Really like! Low drive power. Was ordered 8-25-17 at 0900 CA 
>time.
>
>73, Roy K6XK
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Delivery Time

[Dauer, Edward]

Great news.  Thanks, Eric.

Hope things go well for you at Dayton.  Safe travels.

Ted, KN1CBR


From: Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft 
Date: Saturday, May 19, 2018 at 7:38 PM
To: "Dauer, Edward" 
Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Delivery Time

KPA lead time for -new- orders was posted at 9 weeks on the shipping status 
page just last week, right before we left  for Dayton. (A drop of 2 weeks from 
our prior estimate.)

We’re shipping at a good clip and have been driving it down steadily. We will 
update it late next week after we tally our new backlog total vs shipping rate.

73,
Eric
elecraft.com<http://elecraft.com>
---

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