Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here!
Rob Sherwood, NC0B, of Sherwood Engineering says that all of the receivers with dsp made since roughly 2000 except for the K3 and one other have agc that is excessively responsive to fast ( narrow width in the time domain) noise impulse noises. According to him, these impulses charge the agc excessively, thus quieting their receivers in an undesirable manner. If the repetition rate of the pulses is low enough, this results in "pumping" of the agc, if the repetiton rate is higher, this might result in apparent quieting of the receiver. Mabe Rob will read this and comment. 73, Dunc, W5DC Julian, G4ILO wrote: > Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote: > >> Hello Hector, >> >> What´s about this W9AC mod? Why do you need it and why not the radio have >> this feature done from the Elecraft company if the radio will be better >> with >> this mod? >> >> I hope to not need to do mods on the K3.! >> >> I have an old TS850 with many mods, but my idea for a new radio is to be >> great from the company that made them and no need to do MODS on it!... >> >> >> > > Just Google "W9AC Hardware Mod" and you will find the information here: > http://n1eu.com/K3/k3audiomod.htm . I don't know if it is the same mod as > now on the updated DSP board but the author states that "Elecraft may offer > a replacement board for those who don't wish to make the mod" so I am > guessing that it is. > > Most products evolve and improve over their lifetime. With some products you > would probably never know about this unless you studiously compare the > schematics of different versions. > > There are two ways of looking at this. You can think that it is good the > information about these mods is out in the open giving you the opportunity > to update your K3 if you wish. Or you can think it bad that these mods > needed to be made at all. > > I don't think they *needed* to be made, because people were happy with the > K3 without these mods. They are just improvements. My K3 #222 still works as > well as it always did. It may not work quite as well as the ones coming out > of the factory now, but the only way to avoid that problem is never to buy > anything until just before it becomes obsolete... > > > - > Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. > * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com > * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html > * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here!
That should answer the question. Many Tnx, Roger. Paul, W9AC - Original Message - From: "Roger Marrotte" To: "'Paul Christensen'" Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:29 AM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here! > Paul, > > I have one of the new DSP boards. I noticed that the new DSP board has a > small (approx. 1/2" x 1 1/2") board tacked onto it. My old DSP board > didn't > have this small board on it. I'm not sure what it's for. It could be the > elusive audio LPF. > > Roger, W1EM > > > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Paul Christensen > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:10 AM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here! > > One outstanding question that's not addressed in the announcement below > relates to whether or not Main DSP Board Rev. C includes the hardware > audio > LPF. So, if a K3 owner purchases the K3DSPUPGD upgrade today, will it > also > contain the audio LPF? > > Paul, W9AC > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here!
The mods are essentially the same, although Elecraft likely re-scaled R values rather than C. The end result is identical. I drafted those mods at a time when the upgrades were not yet implemented by Elecraft. Taking advantage of Elecraft's exchange program is the better choice and leads to less potential for damage to the rig. Paul, W9AC > Just Google "W9AC Hardware Mod" and you will find the information here: > http://n1eu.com/K3/k3audiomod.htm . I don't know if it is the same mod as > now on the updated DSP board but the author states that "Elecraft may > offer > a replacement board for those who don't wish to make the mod" so I am > guessing that it is. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here!
One outstanding question that's not addressed in the announcement below relates to whether or not Main DSP Board Rev. C includes the hardware audio LPF. So, if a K3 owner purchases the K3DSPUPGD upgrade today, will it also contain the audio LPF? Paul, W9AC - Original Message - From: "Bill W4ZV" To: Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here! > > > > Bill W4ZV wrote: >> >> You will not need to modify a new K3. The mod was implemented around S/N >> 3010 last April/May. New unit S/Ns must be approaching 4000 by now. >> > > For the record, here's the information from Elecraft: > > > "We started shipping the latest DSP boards, Rev C, approximately May 1st, > 2009. Any K3 DSP board Rev C or later will have the extended low end > audio > response enhancement. > > This corresponds approximately to K3 serial number 3018, plus or minus > 10-20. > > Since assembled -Fs and kit K3s flow through different manufacturing > paths, > there is a slight variance in s/n for the phase-in. > > If in doubt, check the DSP board Rev as noted above. > > A picture of the Rev label location : > > http://www.elecraft.com/K3/mods/dsp_rev_c_information.htm > > (The 'C', or later, revision letter at the bottom of the label is what is > important.)" > > > To order the mod kit, order K3DSPUPGD here: > > http://www.elecraft.com/order_form_parts.htm#K3%20Parts > > > 73, Bill > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Noisy-Receiver-not-here-tp4181034p4181412.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here!
Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote: > > Hello Hector, > > What´s about this W9AC mod? Why do you need it and why not the radio have > this feature done from the Elecraft company if the radio will be better > with > this mod? > > I hope to not need to do mods on the K3.! > > I have an old TS850 with many mods, but my idea for a new radio is to be > great from the company that made them and no need to do MODS on it!... > > Just Google "W9AC Hardware Mod" and you will find the information here: http://n1eu.com/K3/k3audiomod.htm . I don't know if it is the same mod as now on the updated DSP board but the author states that "Elecraft may offer a replacement board for those who don't wish to make the mod" so I am guessing that it is. Most products evolve and improve over their lifetime. With some products you would probably never know about this unless you studiously compare the schematics of different versions. There are two ways of looking at this. You can think that it is good the information about these mods is out in the open giving you the opportunity to update your K3 if you wish. Or you can think it bad that these mods needed to be made at all. I don't think they *needed* to be made, because people were happy with the K3 without these mods. They are just improvements. My K3 #222 still works as well as it always did. It may not work quite as well as the ones coming out of the factory now, but the only way to avoid that problem is never to buy anything until just before it becomes obsolete... - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Noisy-Receiver-not-here-tp4181034p4181419.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here!
Bill W4ZV wrote: > > You will not need to modify a new K3. The mod was implemented around S/N > 3010 last April/May. New unit S/Ns must be approaching 4000 by now. > For the record, here's the information from Elecraft: "We started shipping the latest DSP boards, Rev C, approximately May 1st, 2009. Any K3 DSP board Rev C or later will have the extended low end audio response enhancement. This corresponds approximately to K3 serial number 3018, plus or minus 10-20. Since assembled -Fs and kit K3s flow through different manufacturing paths, there is a slight variance in s/n for the phase-in. If in doubt, check the DSP board Rev as noted above. A picture of the Rev label location : http://www.elecraft.com/K3/mods/dsp_rev_c_information.htm (The 'C', or later, revision letter at the bottom of the label is what is important.)" To order the mod kit, order K3DSPUPGD here: http://www.elecraft.com/order_form_parts.htm#K3%20Parts 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Noisy-Receiver-not-here-tp4181034p4181412.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here!
Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote: > > Hello Hector, > > What´s about this W9AC mod? Why do you need it and why not the radio have > this feature done from the Elecraft company if the radio will be better > with > this mod? > > I hope to not need to do mods on the K3.! > > I have an old TS850 with many mods, but my idea for a new radio is to be > great from the company that made them and no need to do MODS on it!... > Hola Jorge, You will not need to modify a new K3. The mod was implemented around S/N 3010 last April/May. New unit S/Ns must be approaching 4000 by now. One of the advantages of owning Elecraft products is that the company allows you to update (via firmware and hardware mods) your K3 to the very latest production S/Ns, if you desire. I do not know of other manufacturers allow this so easily, especially considering the problems of shipping boat anchor rigs like the IC-7800 or FT9000. I have two K3s (#1361 and #2183) and both are fully up-to-date with the lastest production, except for the much discussed DSP mod (which I'm not yet convinced I need). All the discussion about "noisy RX" reminds me of the same for Orion for several years. I truly believe the answer lies in the operator...not the radio. If the K3 had much worse S/N, you would not see top contest operators like K5ZD making these statements: "The K3 worked great all weekend. Incredible receiver. Actually made 40 meters fun! Wish I had bought one of these a year ago. Now I have to figure out a way to get a second one." I have but one suggestion regarding the comments about the K3 noise...set your AF gain to 9-10 o'clock and turn your RF gain back until the background noise is a comfortable level. Learn to use the radio correctly! 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Noisy-Receiver-not-here-tp4181034p4181354.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here!
Brian, I agree with that. The K3 does sound different than many other receivers, it is cleaner, and to my ears reproduces the signals that are actually present on the band more faithfully than many other receivers. Compare the K3 to a good Direct Conversion receiver or a KK7B Phasing receiver without a lot of audio filtering. Yes, the K3 audio does have more high frequency content than required, so a low pass filter can strip that off for those who are bothered by the high frequency content. That was what the filter on the DSP board is supposed to do. But the downside is that those who want to hear HF broadcast signals in "Hi-Fi" want the audio spectrum to be opened up even broader than it is right now. You just can't please everyone. I would encourage those who think the K3 is more 'noisy' to listen to both the K3 and the comparison receiver with a 3 or 4 kHz audio low pass filter in line. My ears act as low pass filters naturally and I do not perceive the K3 to be any noisier than other receivers. 73, Don W3FPR Brian Machesney wrote: > Gents, > > On the flip side, I - and, apparently, many other operators from whom > we've heard on this and other reflectors - have run the K3 for 30+ hours out > of a 48-hour contest and not experienced the fatigue you describe. Such > fatigue would make any rig an intolerable chore to use and would detract > substantially from the rave reviews the K3 has received in contesting > circles. > > I agree with other post-ers to this reflector that I frequently find myself > reaching to turn DOWN the RF gain control (I operate with > factory-supplied AGC defaults). In this respect, I don't find anything WRONG > with the K3, but I do find it to be DIFFERENT and I have had to modify my > listening habits to accomodate that difference, just as I have had to do > when changing radios in the past. > > We all appreciate that igs from different manufacturers have different > "sounds;" I would describe the K3 as "less soft" than the TS850, "more > precise" than the FT1KMP and "similar" to the Omni VII (I lack experience > with Icom beyond using the 706MkIIG mobile). Now that I think of it, this > appears to track the evolution of DSP from "none" to "very low IF" to > "higher IF." > 73 -- Brian -- K1LI > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here!
Hello Hector, What´s about this W9AC mod? Why do you need it and why not the radio have this feature done from the Elecraft company if the radio will be better with this mod? I hope to not need to do mods on the K3.! I have an old TS850 with many mods, but my idea for a new radio is to be great from the company that made them and no need to do MODS on it!... Thanks, Jorge CX6VM/CW5W -Mensaje original- De: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] En nombre de Hector Padron Enviado el: Jueves, 17 de Diciembre de 2009 11:05 a.m. Para: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Asunto: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here! I am another of the hundred K3 users who has been using it for long periods of time like the last SSB WW Contest when I had it on my ears for about 30 hours and it was absolutely not fatiguing,it was pleasent to listen to a very quite receiver pulling weak stations from the noise and from strong ones at less than 3 Khz close in freq.I have owned more than 100 radios in the last 18 years as a ham and the K3 is the quiter of all,its even less noisy than my former TT Orion and my ProIII. I normally operate it with the minimun RF gain needed to pull the station I want to hear,sometimes its so quite that I wonder if its broke or turned off. For reference I have my DSP board modified with W9AC hardware mod for wider audio and also using the latest 3.63 FW version and I have never have had any single technical problem except the two plastic knobs cracked(VOL and RF Gain).Its been already 13 months that I own it and I I am pretty satisfied with this little machine that has become the proud of us americans. 73 and Merry Xmas to all Elecrafters hoping the new year bring us a P3 or God knows what else. AD4C K3 # 2192 "For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3" --- On Thu, 12/17/09, Brian Machesney wrote: From: Brian Machesney Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here! To: "Elecraft Email" Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 12:40 PM Gents, On the flip side, I - and, apparently, many other operators from whom we've heard on this and other reflectors - have run the K3 for 30+ hours out of a 48-hour contest and not experienced the fatigue you describe. Such fatigue would make any rig an intolerable chore to use and would detract substantially from the rave reviews the K3 has received in contesting circles. I agree with other post-ers to this reflector that I frequently find myself reaching to turn DOWN the RF gain control (I operate with factory-supplied AGC defaults). In this respect, I don't find anything WRONG with the K3, but I do find it to be DIFFERENT and I have had to modify my listening habits to accomodate that difference, just as I have had to do when changing radios in the past. We all appreciate that igs from different manufacturers have different "sounds;" I would describe the K3 as "less soft" than the TS850, "more precise" than the FT1KMP and "similar" to the Omni VII (I lack experience with Icom beyond using the 706MkIIG mobile). Now that I think of it, this appears to track the evolution of DSP from "none" to "very low IF" to "higher IF." 73 -- Brian -- K1LI On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:26 AM, James Sarte wrote: > > "I've worked long pileups [with] the FT-1000, and I don't recall ever > having as much noise-related fatigue as I get when I use the K3... It just > seems the K3's noise characteristics seem stronger and perhaps a tad harsher > than what comes out of the Yaesu." __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.110/2568 - Release Date: 12/16/09 19:52:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here!
I am another of the hundred K3 users who has been using it for long periods of time like the last SSB WW Contest when I had it on my ears for about 30 hours and it was absolutely not fatiguing,it was pleasent to listen to a very quite receiver pulling weak stations from the noise and from strong ones at less than 3 Khz close in freq.I have owned more than 100 radios in the last 18 years as a ham and the K3 is the quiter of all,its even less noisy than my former TT Orion and my ProIII. I normally operate it with the minimun RF gain needed to pull the station I want to hear,sometimes its so quite that I wonder if its broke or turned off. For reference I have my DSP board modified with W9AC hardware mod for wider audio and also using the latest 3.63 FW version and I have never have had any single technical problem except the two plastic knobs cracked(VOL and RF Gain).Its been already 13 months that I own it and I I am pretty satisfied with this little machine that has become the proud of us americans. 73 and Merry Xmas to all Elecrafters hoping the new year bring us a P3 or God knows what else. AD4C K3 # 2192 "For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3" --- On Thu, 12/17/09, Brian Machesney wrote: From: Brian Machesney Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here! To: "Elecraft Email" Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 12:40 PM Gents, On the flip side, I - and, apparently, many other operators from whom we've heard on this and other reflectors - have run the K3 for 30+ hours out of a 48-hour contest and not experienced the fatigue you describe. Such fatigue would make any rig an intolerable chore to use and would detract substantially from the rave reviews the K3 has received in contesting circles. I agree with other post-ers to this reflector that I frequently find myself reaching to turn DOWN the RF gain control (I operate with factory-supplied AGC defaults). In this respect, I don't find anything WRONG with the K3, but I do find it to be DIFFERENT and I have had to modify my listening habits to accomodate that difference, just as I have had to do when changing radios in the past. We all appreciate that igs from different manufacturers have different "sounds;" I would describe the K3 as "less soft" than the TS850, "more precise" than the FT1KMP and "similar" to the Omni VII (I lack experience with Icom beyond using the 706MkIIG mobile). Now that I think of it, this appears to track the evolution of DSP from "none" to "very low IF" to "higher IF." 73 -- Brian -- K1LI On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:26 AM, James Sarte wrote: > > "I've worked long pileups [with] the FT-1000, and I don't recall ever > having as much noise-related fatigue as I get when I use the K3... It just > seems the K3's noise characteristics seem stronger and perhaps a tad harsher > than what comes out of the Yaesu." __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3: Noisy Receiver? - not here!
Gents, On the flip side, I - and, apparently, many other operators from whom we've heard on this and other reflectors - have run the K3 for 30+ hours out of a 48-hour contest and not experienced the fatigue you describe. Such fatigue would make any rig an intolerable chore to use and would detract substantially from the rave reviews the K3 has received in contesting circles. I agree with other post-ers to this reflector that I frequently find myself reaching to turn DOWN the RF gain control (I operate with factory-supplied AGC defaults). In this respect, I don't find anything WRONG with the K3, but I do find it to be DIFFERENT and I have had to modify my listening habits to accomodate that difference, just as I have had to do when changing radios in the past. We all appreciate that igs from different manufacturers have different "sounds;" I would describe the K3 as "less soft" than the TS850, "more precise" than the FT1KMP and "similar" to the Omni VII (I lack experience with Icom beyond using the 706MkIIG mobile). Now that I think of it, this appears to track the evolution of DSP from "none" to "very low IF" to "higher IF." 73 -- Brian -- K1LI On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:26 AM, James Sarte wrote: > > "I've worked long pileups [with] the FT-1000, and I don't recall ever > having as much noise-related fatigue as I get when I use the K3... It just > seems the K3's noise characteristics seem stronger and perhaps a tad harsher > than what comes out of the Yaesu." __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
