Re: Ethics grad work Therac-25
Curt, You might wish to check out Nancy Levison's book, Safeware: System Safety and Computers She is one of the primer authorities on software safety in the country, if not the world. She addresses the Therac 25 incident in her book, not necessarily from an ethical point of view but after checking out the book you might want to contact her personally. I have found her to be most approachable and I'm sure that she would be willing to discuss this with you. Her name is mentioned in the following technical report (CMU/SEI-93-TR-13) Software Product Liability, by Jody Armor and Watts S. Humphrey of the Software Engineering Institute at Carnegie Mellon University. See chapter 9, page 17, Improvement Opportunities. (http://www.sei.cmu.edu/pub/documents/93.reports/pdf/tr13.93.pdf) Here is a short bio of her to help you determine if it might be worthwhile contacting her. Nancy Leveson is Professor of Aeronautics and Astronautics and also Professor of Engineering Systems at MIT. She is an elected member of the National Academy of Engineering (NAE). Prof. Leveson conducts research on the topics of system safety, software safety, software and system engineering, and human-computer interaction. In 1999, she received the ACM Allen Newell Award for outstanding computer science research and in 1995 the AIAA Information Systems Award for developing the field of software safety and for promoting responsible software and system engineering practices where life and property are at stake. In 2005 she received the ACM Sigsoft Outstanding Research Award. She has published over 200 research papers and is author of a book, Safeware: System Safety and Computers published by Addison-Wesley. She consults extensively in many industries on the ways to prevent accidents. Prof. Leveson will present a tutorial titled STAMP and STPA: A New Approach to System Safety for Complex, High-Tech Systems on Monday, 25 August 2008, 8am to 2:30pm at the 26th International System Safety Conference to be held in Vancouver, Canada. (http://www.system-safety.org/~issc2008/) (This is not a paid political endorsement. I have just worked with her a couple of times and know her capabilities and willingness to assist.) You might also check out another speaker at this conference, Dr. Richard Cook. Dr. Richard Cook is a physician, educator, and researcher at the University of Chicago . His current research interests include the study of human error, the role of technology in human expert performance, and patient safety. Dr. Cook's most often cited publications are Gaps in the continuity of patient care and progress in patient safety, Operating at the Sharp End: The complexity of human error, Adapting to New Technology in the Operating Room, and the report A Tale of Two Stories: Contrasting Views of Patient Safety. Oscarr Overton Product Safety Bender, Curtis Curtis.Bender@TE NNANTCO.com To Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 05/07/2008 10:57 Ethics grad work Therac-25 PM Greetings fellow IEEE PS forum members. I am a Grad student writing an ethics paper on the Therac-25 radiation machine. http://www.computingcases.org/case_materials/therac/therac_case_intro.html My paper is focusing on the ethical situation from the manufacturer's point of view and hypothetically what they should or could have done differently to solve the issue if I was their consultant. Primarily I am interested in the ISO/IEC or international safety standards for software programming of industrial equipment or medical devices. Not necessarily to reference them but to understand the scope and to realize what the manufacturer needed/needs to do. This would also hypothetically be presented to the business management team that contracted me. I am a little curious too as to what extent this event has taken the existing industry. I have read that the standards have added unnecessary time to an already laborious process. I look forward, as always, to your comments. Best
Fw: resend environmental quotation.
Ken Javor wrote: It is not coincidence that the excuse for imposing these controls during nominal peace time is a crisis advertised to once again doom civilization - global warming. The would-be Overlords, who are in reality Untermensch, fully recognize that a crisis of global proportions is necessary to impose the controls they wish to exert. Here is a similar attitude but from a different perspective. Excerpts?from the text of a Michael Crichton speech (Yes, the Michael Crichton of book and movie fame). http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-environmentalismaseligion.html Environmentalism as a Religion Commonwealth Club San Francisco, CA September 15, 2003 We must daily decide whether the threats we face are real, whether the solutions we are offered will do any good, whether the problems we're told exist are in fact real problems, or non-problems. Every one of us has a sense of the world, and we all know that this sense is in part given to us by what other people and society tell us; in part generated by our emotional state, which we project outward; and in part by our genuine perceptions of reality. In short, our struggle to determine what is true is the struggle to decide which of our perceptions are genuine, and which are false because they are handed down, or sold to us, or generated by our own hopes and fears. Most of us have had some experience interacting with religious fundamentalists, and we understand that one of the problems with fundamentalists is that they have no perspective on themselves. They never recognize that their way of thinking is just one of many other possible ways of thinking, which may be equally useful or good. On the contrary, they believe their way is the right way, everyone else is wrong; they are in the business of salvation, and they want to help you to see things the right way. They want to help you be saved. They are totally rigid and totally uninterested in opposing points of view. In our modern complex world, fundamentalism is dangerous because of its rigidity and its imperviousness to other ideas. Also see the following site by a 16-year young lady that seems to have a pretty good perspective on this. She is not anti-environtmentalist but a reasoned environmentalist (Yes they do exist in the wild.) She does not deny global warming, she rejects that man-made effects are the main cause of it. She convincingly takes on, with reason and evidence, Al Gore and his minions. http://home.earthlink.net/~ponderthemaunder/index.html If this one is unavailable, try this one. http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.6 An National Public Radio (NPR) article on her: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89619306 A quote from the article: And she has a quality scientists try to cultivate: she is skeptical. Has someone made a claim? She wants to see the data. Oscar Overton Product Safety - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
New Technology
A more basic question. Would Edison? slight bulb have ever illuminated the night if an environmental impact statement had predicted the electrical power infrastructure necessary to support it, and the resultant ?man-made global warming?? When measured against the emissions of the candles, oil lanterns, torches, fire places, camp fires, signal fires etc. Probably. The major pollution factor in the large cities in the early 1900s was horse exhaust. With which exhaust would you rather deal horse exhaust or petrol fumes? It is not the technology that is the problem, it is the abuse of it. We could turn off at least 60 of the lights we use at night to little effect If we had effective mass transit the automobile exhaust could be greatly reduced. If we all lived closer to our jobs the same would be true. If we didn't insist on an automobile that weighed as much as the Queen Mary and went from 0 - Mach 1.5 in 13 nanoseconds, there would be a lot less also. If we lived in houses that were sized properly . . .. Until we make some hard choices about our comfort and preferences, things will continue to deteriorate. New technologies will only transfer the pain to another venue and/or time. Oscar Overton Product Safety Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachment(s), is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender, by email, and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
In Search of Power Cord Test Equipment
One of our vendors is looking for test equipment for the IEC-320-1, Clauses 16.2 and 16.3, Withdraw Force Tests. It is illustrated in Figure 12 of the same standard. We have such a tester but it is decades old and before my time. Does anyone know where such a device can be purchased? Oscar Overton --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Laser Warnings
Richard, Another good one is http://www.freetranslation.com/;. I usually translate the same text using both and compare the differences. There usually are some. I find this one easier to use when translating from another language into English if you are having to type text directly as it has a list of the special characters that English does not use (e.g. the diacritic marks on vowels). Oscar, x22284 douglas_beckwith%mitel@interlock.lexmark.com on 08/15/2002 09:19:20 AM Please respond to douglas_beckwith%mitel@interlock.lexmark.com To: richwoods%tycoint@interlock.lexmark.com cc: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: Laser Warnings Hi Richard, Try this URL. http://babelfish.altavista.com/translate.dyn I have used this in the past and it fairly accurate. I suggest do the translation and get someone who speaks the lingo to look at it for technical correctness. This is an inernational form, and I'm sure someone will be able to do that for you. Regards Doug richwo...@tycoint.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 08/14/2002 02:39:08 PM Please respond to richwo...@tycoint.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Laser Warnings Can someone tell me where I can find translations of the following, especially German. Caution - Class 2 laser radiation when open. Do not stare into beam. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Are There Any Standards that Apply to Digital Cameras
Everyone, Does anyone know of any product safety standards that apply to digital cameras? The simple, personal, AA battery powered type of digital cameras. Thank you. Oscar Overton Ph: 859-232-2284 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Nema 5-15R sockets
Jim, This also can be affected by the cordage that comes with an appliance. We have a refrigerator with the ground pin at the bottom. It has to be plugged in that way because the plug is designed to lay flat against the wall. To put the plug in the other way would cause the cord to come out up vertically. I have some flat profile extension cords that also have the ground pin at the bottom. I imagine that this is cheaper construction as the smaller dimension is at both the single pin side and the side where the cordage exits the plug. From my feeble recollection, all of those that I remember had the ground pin at the bottom. This would tend to confirm the household being placed at the bottom. I just looked at my office receptacles and they have the ground pins at the top. Jim Eichner jim.eichner%xantrex@interlock.lexmark.com on 07/19/2002 03:38:39 PM Please respond to Jim Eichner jim.eichner%xantrex@interlock.lexmark.com To: 'Art Michael' amichael%connix@interlock.lexmark.com, 'EMC-PSTC - forum' emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: Nema 5-15R sockets Thanks for the reply Art. I was starting to convince myself that it was indeed local custom, not code, that determined the orientation. I heard another explanation that I find amusing and perhaps practical: that with the ground at the bottom it looks too much like a face and children will be more tempted to play with it, so it should be mounted ground-up! My fax number is below, and I really appreciate you providing whatever dimensions you can. Note that I am interested in the blade and ground pin dimensions of the male plug, not the female socket, please. Thanks, Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Manager, Engineering Services Xantrex Technology Inc. Mobile Power phone: (604) 422-2546 fax: (604) 420-1591 e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -Original Message- From: Art Michael [mailto:amich...@connix.com] Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 10:59 AM To: Jim Eichner Cc: 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: Re: Nema 5-15R sockets Hello Jim, I don't believe the orientation of the U-ground pin is declared anyplace in the NEC. When I recently approached my local AHJ with this question he related that it is a matter of custom (locality dependent). In this area, central Connecticut, the custom is: For commercial/industrial applications, U-Ground topmost For household wiring, U-Ground towards the bottom The rationale offered for the U-Ground topmost; if the plug partially separates from the outlet, anything falling into the opening between the plug and the outlet will first encounter the grounding pin. (seems to me that argument holds whether the use is commercial/industrial or household). Re dimensions of the outlet; send me your fax # and I'll fax you the dimensions. Regards, Art Michael -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- |http://www.safetylink.com | || | The Safety Link is the most comprehensive collection | |of product safety and standards links on the WEB| |Check our latest offer. | || || | Int'l Product Safety News | | Founded in 1988 | || | P.O.Box 1561 - WWW | |Middletown CT 06457-8061 U.S.A. | | Phone: (860) 344-1651 Fax: (860) 346-9066 | | email: i...@safetylink.com | -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, Jim Eichner wrote: A couple of questions about our standard North American 120Vac socket: 1. Orientation: We have lots of people in the office here on both sides of this one, and I can't find a normative reference in the CEC or the NEC. Which is the correct way up when installing a socket on a wall - ground pin above the L and N blades, or L and N above the ground? What is the code reference for this requirement, or is there none? 2. Dimensions: Can anybody share the spec's for the dimensions, with tolerances, of the line, neutral, and ground blades for this configuration? I'm
Re: Required: Ability to WHAT?
Sounds like the pointy haired must have written it ! ! Cortland Richmond 72146.373%compuserve@interlock.lexmark.com on 07/09/2002 01:06:52 PM Please respond to Cortland Richmond 72146.373%compuserve@interlock.lexmark.com To: ieee pstc list emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Required: Ability to WHAT? I swear this is true. From job requirements for a job, on monster.com: ·Ability to research and interrupt Bellcore, ANSI, IEEE, NEMA, and JIC standards as applies to telecommunication and electrical equipment required. Cortland Richmond --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: EMC and Safety PCB Reviews
I think that we all need to get a grip on our job title envy. If all one is his/her job title then that person is in a heap of trouble, especially in today's job market. I was a GI for 23 years. Does anyone know what that means? Government Issue That didn't change who I was/am. Nor did it affect how I felt about myself. I am me because of who I am, not what I am. There was a period that some of the female spouses took exception to being called dependents. They didn't feel that they were dependent. (Of course they had no problems availing themselves of the services offered on which the depended.) MOO (My Opinion Only) Stephen Phillips stephen%cisco@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/07/2002 03:27:10 PM Please respond to Stephen Phillips stephen%cisco@interlock.lexmark.com To:Robert Wilson robert_wilson%tirsys@interlock.lexmark.com cc:emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject:RE: EMC and Safety PCB Reviews Technically, we refer to them as PCB CAD engineers. I omitted part of that, given the fact that it seemed redundant - PCB's being the topic of discussion. I now return you back to your job as Keyboard Engineer. Stephen At 11:59 AM 3/7/2002, Robert Wilson wrote: As a side issue to your comments, I find it interesting that you refer to a PCB designer as a CAD engineer . Does this mean that 20 years ago he would have been a Drafting Board engineer ? :) Kind of sad when the tool one uses is deemed to be more important than the job one is doing! Bob Wilson TIR Systems Ltd. Vancouver. -Original Message- From: Stephen Phillips [mailto:step...@cisco.com] Sent: March 6, 2002 9:49 AM To: Alex McNeil Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EMC and Safety PCB Reviews Alex, Not really a thorough checklist per se, but for Safety - roughly this: Throughout this process, I prefer to make notes on paper doc's, and then sit with the CAD engineer to go over the review on his computer screen and make any changes right then. - Schematic review (identify and mark up areas such as exceeding SELV and TNV, identify critical nets). - Provide Creepage Clearance guidelines to PCB CAD engineer (who inputs into the CAD system, based on properties assigned to the nets via the schematic). - Placement Review (using marked up silk-screen or assy. dwg based on previously marked up schematics), and also layer stack-up review at this time. - Layout review, layer by layer routing, and adjacent layer to layer. - Layout review with mechanical dwg superimposed (since sheet metal could violate CC to the PCB). - Thieving review (since thieving could violate CC). - Photo Artwork review (especially planes). - Also make sure the drawings tell the PCB fab. vendor not to put their logo smack in that nice clearing which is your CC! Obviously I left out a lot of the detail as to what we design for and what we specifically look for, but these are the higher granularity steps I routinely take. EMC would take more or less the same steps, just with different criteria. I hope this helps, Stephen At 09:46 AM 3/6/2002, you wrote: Hi Guys, I am being asked to review PCB's for EMC (and Safety) acceptance. I was going to try and collate a check list then I thought of this wonderful forum!! Does any kind person have such a thing as an EMC PCB Design Check list? Does any kind person have such a thing as an Safety PCB Design Check list? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com (See attached file: att1.htm) Technically, we refer to them as PCB CAD engineers. I omitted part of that, given the fact that it seemed redundant - PCB's being the topic of discussion. I now return you back to your job as Keyboard Engineer. Stephen At 11:59 AM 3/7/2002, Robert Wilson wrote: As a side issue to your comments, I find it interesting that you refer to a PCB designer as a CAD engineer . Does this mean that 20 years ago he would have been a Drafting Board engineer ? :) Kind of sad when the tool one uses is deemed to be more important than the job one is doing! Bob Wilson TIR Systems Ltd. Vancouver. -Original Message- From: Stephen Phillips [mailto:step...@cisco.com] Sent: March 6, 2002 9:49 AM To: Alex McNeil Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EMC and Safety PCB Reviews Alex, Not really a thorough checklist per se, but for Safety - roughly this: Throughout this process, I prefer to make notes on paper doc's, and then sit with the CAD engineer to go over the review on his computer screen and make any changes right then. - Schematic review (identify and mark up areas such as exceeding SELV and TNV, identify critical nets). - Provide
Re: Different shades of UL
Chris, Go to the following site and it explains it very well with examples. http://www.ul.com/mark/index.html The information not covered are the : product type (e.g., I.T.E.) (there is a lot of variation allowed here), 4 character Listing Mark Control Number (LMCN) which is a confidential ID for the applicant, UL file number when appropriate, use of the word Accessory or similar when appropriate, The use of the LMCN and UL File Number is determined by who the Applicant and Listee are and who's name is on the power rating label. Also the little detail that the text must be in all Caps and Bold. Oscar M.O.O. Chris Maxwell chris.maxw...@nettest.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 02/22/2002 09:39:52 AM Please respond to Chris Maxwell chris.maxw...@nettest.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: EMC-PSTC Internet Forum emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Different shades of UL Hi all, I know that this has been covered before. But please indulge my ignorance. There are many different forms of UL marks, each with subtle differences. There is the UL in a circle. There is also the mirror lettered RU. There are also some subscripts denoting approval for Canada as well. There may be some other variations that I can't remember. Anyone care to blow a few minutes on a Friday afternoon to explain which symbol means what? Thanks, Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: South Korean Power System
To add a bit to Rich's comment. The Argentina and China (PRC) plugs have polarized plugs that are very similar to Australian style (without a caliper it is hard to tell the dimensonal differences). The PRC plugs are the same as the Australian polarization while the Argentina plugs are opposite of the Australian polarity. The polarity of these plugs may be marked on the plug face (Argentina is by requirement). Also, the Swiss and Israel 3-conductor plugs are configured so that polarization is possible but I have not confirmed whether this is done within the facility wiring. The Israel sample that I have has the polarity marked on the plug face but the Swiss one is not marked. Oscar Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 02/20/2002 12:38:19 PM Please respond to Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: ed.pr...@cubic.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org (Product Safety Technical Committee) Subject: Re: South Korean Power System Hi Ed: With few exceptions, most power distribution systems have one pole of the supply, the neutral, grounded. (Indeed, the definition of neutral for single-phase systems is the grounded conductor.) In the IEC scheme of the world, a power distribution system where the neutral is grounded is known as a TN or TT system. The first letter identifies the grounding scheme for the neutral wire. The second letter identifies the grounding scheme for the protective wire. T = terra (a ground rod) N = neutral In North America, the scheme is TN. The neutral is connected to a ground rod at the service entrance. The protective wire is connected to the neutral in the breaker panel. I believe Korea uses the TN system. So, at any socket-outlet, one pin will be at the phase voltage, 220, and the other pin will be at the neutral voltage, 0. Polarity is a separate issue. By polarity, I mean that the neutral identification is maintained through the plug/socket-outlet scheme. Polarity is not maintained where the plug can be reversed in the socket-outlet. The SCHUKO plug is a plug that can be reversed in the socket outlet. Not only that, but the socket-outlet is symmetrical, so the wiring to the socket-outlet cannot be such that the neutral is always wired to the same pin. Among the world's plugs/socket-outlet combinations, relatively few maintain the polarity through the system. These are: the British 13-A plug/socket-outlet in UK, Ireland, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. the old British 15-A plug/socket outlet in South Africa and India, etc. the Australian plug/socket-outlet the North American grounding plug/socket-outlet the North American two-wire plug/socket-outlet with one wide blade The French plug/socket-outlet with its grounding pin scheme COULD be polarized, but is not so wired. Likewise, the Danish, Chilean, and Chinese plug/socket-outlet could be polarized, but I cannot say if they are. Polarized plugs and socket-outlets always bear markings indicating the pole of each pin. For North American plugs and socket- outlets, the white or silver-colored screws or terminals are the neutral pins. Other plugs and socket-outlets bear molded in letters such as L, N, E or PE or G. Virtually all safety standards include the requirement that the neutral wire within the equipment shall be treated as if it was at mains voltage rather than at zero voltage. This is because, in many installations, errors may occur in the wiring of the socket- outlet. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and
International Power Requirements
Check out this website for power requirements, plug styles, and languages. Look under South Korea for Korea. ftp://ftp.lexmark.com/pub/networking/internat.htm --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: radar (Germany)
Imagine that, holding someone accountable for their own actions! What a novel concept. I doubt it would ever be accepted in the US. MOO J.Feldhaar j.feldhaar%telejet...@interlock.lexmark.com on 01/10/2002 08:00:52 AM Please respond to J.Feldhaar j.feldhaar%telejet...@interlock.lexmark.com To: Price, Ed ed.price%cubic@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: radar (Germany) Hi Ed, in Germany you have speed ratings for your tires, beginning at 160 KPH (100 mph)and then on to 190, 220 and 250 and beyond (some cars really go that fast, take a Porsche or a Ferrari). BMW and Mercedes have a gentleman agreement that these cars can't exceed 250 KPH (abt 156 mph). But of course, you can always do chip tuning... NOW : It is not very often that you can go very fast on a German motorway, because of lots of traffic, and many traffic jams. Also a big percentage of the motorways are regulated for 130, 120 100 or even 80 KPH, and a lot of mobile and stationary controlling devices make nice black-and-white photos of you and the car I drive a BMW, and I think the last time I drove faster than 200 KPH is two months ago, and I don't have an ego problem with that! Anyway, if you are involved in an accident and you drove more than 130 KHP (81 MPH), the court will see negligence on your part for driving so fast. Of course it is not forbidden - but if there is a problem, you have a distinct disadvantage! My 0.02 EURO... Jochen Feldhaar --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: European and North American Cordage
Because of the different mains plugs required in the different countries I have never seen much advantage to universal cordage. The one exception to this is a jumper cord that has an IEC320, C-13 connector on one end and a C-14 connector on the other. This type of power cord is independent of the mains connector and can be used in any country that is within the current limits. This minimizes the number of part numbers of jumper cords that need to be stocked and keeps the possiblity of putting the wrong cord into the box. MOO (My Opinions Only) WELLMAN,RON (A-PaloAlto,ex1) ron_wellman%agilent@interlock.lexmark.com on 01/08/2002 11:28:32 AM Please respond to WELLMAN,RON (A-PaloAlto,ex1) ron_wellman%agilent@interlock.lexmark.com To: 'jrbar...@lexmark.com' john_barnes.lexm...@sweeper.lex.lexmark.com, Peter Merguerian pmerguerian%itl.co...@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: European and North American Cordage Howdy all, Having been involved with power cords and cord sets for quite some time I have never seen an advantage in using Universal cordage. Therefore, I would be interested to hear from people what they have to say about their usage of Universal cordage and what they have benefited from using it. I am specifically interested in certification and material costs when using Universal cordage versus HAR or UL/CSA certified cordage. Regards, +=+ |Ronald R. Wellman|Voice : 408-345-8229 | |Agilent Technologies |FAX : 408-553-2412 | |5301 Stevens Creek Blvd.,|E-Mail: ron_well...@agilent.com| |Mailstop 54L-BB |WWW : http://www.agilent.com | |Santa Clara, California 95052 USA| | +=+ | Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age | | eighteen. - Albert Einstein | +=+ -Original Message- From: jrbar...@lexmark.com [mailto:jrbar...@lexmark.com] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 2:21 PM To: Peter Merguerian; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: European and North American Cordage Peter, We used a HARSVT 3x18AWG 1.00mm2 Universal linecord from Feller on the Lexmark MarNet XLe External Network Adapter. This had a Harmonized plus UL/CSA-listed cordage. I can't find my Feller catalog right now, and their website (http://www.feller-at.com/ ) doesn't say, but I think that they had HARSVT cordage in 16AWG and 14AWG, along with HARSJT cordage. John Barnes Advisory Engineer Lexmark International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Heald
Re: Sometimes product safety just isn't enough
In the spirit of the season: John wore clothing made of camel's hair, with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locust and wild honey. Matthew 3:4, Mark 1:6 There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. But all other winged creatures that have four legs you are to detest. Leviticus 11:22-23 Ted Rook tedr%crestaudio@interlock.lexmark.com on 12/17/2001 11:07:42 AM Please respond to Ted Rook tedr%crestaudio@interlock.lexmark.com To:emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: Sometimes product safety just isn't enough fortunately we are omnivores and while preferring to dine on the upper branches of the food chain tree nothing prevents homo sapiens sapiens from thriving on the lower branches even though they don't look or smell so pretty, everything's OK so long as our internal pathogen and infection defenses are in good order bon appetit :-) Best Regards Ted Rook, Console Engineering, ext 4659 Please note our new location and phone numbers: Crest Audio Inc, 16-00 Pollitt Drive Fair Lawn, NJ 07410 USA 201 475 4600 telephone receptionist, 8.30 - 5 pm EST. 201 475 4659 direct line w/voice mail, 24 hrs. 201 475 4677 fax, 24 hrs. oover...@lexmark.com 17-Dec-01 7:30:45 AM This particular labeling of Nut products is not an isolated event. Pick up viturally any container of mixed nuts and it will have a similar warning. Of course don't start reading too many food labels, it can get really scary. FDA's Food Alergen page is: http://www.fda.gov/ora/compliance_ref/cpg/cpgfod/cpg555-250.htm And you thought product safety standards were convoluted and political driven! We won't discuss the pages that address the standards for a. Insect Filth and Mold . . . contains an average of 1% or more insect infested and/or moldy pieces by weight. or b. Mammalian Excreta . . . contains an average of 1 milligram or more of mammalian excreta per pound. or c. Foreign Matter . . . contains an average of 1% or more pickings and siftings by weight, (What exactly is Foreign Matter?) The following represents the criteria for direct reference seizure: Insect Filth . . . contains an average of 100 or more insect fragments per 25 grams Rodent Filth . . . contains an average of 4 or more rodent hairs per 25 grams. and this is before it gets to the minimum wage food preparation specialist. Do you want fries with that? Robert Macy macy%california@interlock.lexmark.com on 12/14/2001 04:39:16 PM Please respond to Robert Macy macy%california@interlock.lexmark.com To: James Collum james.collum%usa.alcatel@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: Sometimes product safety just isn't enough --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Sometimes product safety just isn't enough
This particular labeling of Nut products is not an isolated event. Pick up viturally any container of mixed nuts and it will have a similar warning. Of course don't start reading too many food labels, it can get really scary. FDA's Food Alergen page is: http://www.fda.gov/ora/compliance_ref/cpg/cpgfod/cpg555-250.htm And you thought product safety standards were convoluted and political driven! We won't discuss the pages that address the standards for a. Insect Filth and Mold . . . contains an average of 1% or more insect infested and/or moldy pieces by weight. or b. Mammalian Excreta . . . contains an average of 1 milligram or more of mammalian excreta per pound. or c. Foreign Matter . . . contains an average of 1% or more pickings and siftings by weight, (What exactly is Foreign Matter?) The following represents the criteria for direct reference seizure: Insect Filth . . . contains an average of 100 or more insect fragments per 25 grams Rodent Filth . . . contains an average of 4 or more rodent hairs per 25 grams. and this is before it gets to the minimum wage food preparation specialist. Do you want fries with that? Robert Macy macy%california@interlock.lexmark.com on 12/14/2001 04:39:16 PM Please respond to Robert Macy macy%california@interlock.lexmark.com To: James Collum james.collum%usa.alcatel@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: Sometimes product safety just isn't enough In deference to the warning label on the peanuts bag. Some people have life threatening allergies to peanuts and take warnings such as that and warnings on cookies, etc very seriously. But then again, you'd think with the main label Peanuts would be sufficient. Perhaps, someone is making peanuts out of soy beans already. - Robert - Robert A. Macy, PEm...@california.com 408 286 3985 fx 408 297 9121 AJM International Electronics Consultants 619 North First St, San Jose, CA 95112 -Original Message- From: James Collum james.col...@usa.alcatel.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:57 PM Subject: Re: Sometimes product safety just isn't enough Following a recent airline flight, I was given a bag of peanuts, marked Peanuts which contained a health warning contains peanuts. I was thinking that in a similar style that maybe electrical products could have an added warning may contain electricity. The may would elude to the connection of a mains cable for mains powered equipment, or even batteries in battery powered equipment. I think the IEC should be prompt to act in this vital area. Following this illogical train of thought, the swimming pool should have a warning contains water and the ladder could have a warning may alter altitude. But on a slightly more serious note (but not much) If I am ever present when someone is about to do something interesting with electricity I always advise that the person about to do the deed make sure to note who present will provide the kiss of life when it all goes pear shaped. It tends to work (although I don't know why, as I think I'm very kissable). Jim -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Robert Johnson Sent: woensdag 12 december 2001 19:28 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Sometimes product safety just isn't enough I couldnââ� â ä¢t help passing on this reference to a bit of unforeseeable misuse.?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office / http://electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum4/HTML/48.html Bob Johnson --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: FW: Quality Assurance and Product Approvals
The Board of Certified Safety Processionals used to have a Certification Specialty in Product Safety. There was so little interest in it that it was dropped. The closest that they have now is a Specialty in System Safety. Just like Dan says below about the requirement for PEs to sign off drawings, where is there any requirement for a Safety Professional to sign off on the safety approvals, either from a third party or the owning/design company. It will require the government or industry to require someone to hold a safety certification to perform certain tasks before there will ever be any legitimacy. OSHA requires a NRTL approval but it does not set any standards for the person that does the sign-off. Oscar MOO (My Opinions Only) Dan Teninty dteninty%dtec-associates@interlock.lexmark.com on 11/27/2001 03:11:38 PM Please respond to Dan Teninty dteninty%dtec-associates@interlock.lexmark.com To: PSTC IEEE-EMC emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: FW: Quality Assurance and Product Approvals Rich, After sending you my reply, I thought that I would open it up to the group for comment. I thought I would pass on the information about the NARTE certification for Product Safety engineers. Best regards, Dan Daniel E. Teninty, P.E. Managing Partner DTEC Associates LLC Streamlining The Compliance Process Advancing New Products To Market http://www.dtec-associates.com (509) 443-0215 (509) 443-0181 fax -Original Message- From: Dan Teninty [mailto:dteni...@dtec-associates.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 12:01 PM To: Rich Nute Subject: RE: Quality Assurance and Product Approvals Rich, I don't disagree with your point of view. It seems that there are a lot of MBA's devoting allot of time to reducing costs. This is how business is run. The days are gone when, like the founders of your organization, companies could compete on quality, reliability, features, and perceived value. Now everything boils down to how can we shave unit cost another $0.03? General Motors has had some high profile cases where this philosophy has led to injuries and deaths. The world is changing, not always for the better and I will continue to tilt at windmills. I believe that consumers expect/assume that products they purchase are safe and won't scramble their TV's picture during the Super Bowl. Quantifying this perception into a benefit that can be placed into a spread sheet is, I agree, a difficult if not impossible task, but a good actuary could probably come up with a defensible number. The point is that the philosophy of corporate management sets the tone for the rest of the company and if regulatory compliance is not a priority for management, then it won't be a priority for the compliance department. Reducing the amount of flame retardant plastic in a product is commendable if it doesn't compromise the protection it provides. Engineering is about trade-offs of conflicting requirements. Integrating compliance into a product should trade off the risk/consequence of non-compliance leading to an event. Events lead to lawsuits. I've always made a distinction between standards requirements and safety. Walt Hart at Fluke was an early mentor in product safety and taught me to differentiate between a requirement for a wire to be blue and a requirement that 5000 Volts not reach an end user. Harking back to an earlier thread, there are compliance engineers like yourself who go far beyond the requirements in the standards and understand the basic principles involved and how this basic science leads to standards. Then there are the folks who have compliance thrust upon them and at the extreme, haven't got a clue. In the commercial world of putting up buildings and other public structures there is a requirement that a registered professional engineer review and sign off on drawings. This is not a perfect solution and there are bad apples, but there is a minimum level of competence assumed that does not exist in the product safety world. EMC engineers have NARTE certification to add to their qualifications and most of the NARTE certified EMC engineers I've encountered were competent to say the least. NARTE has just recently, at the EMC meeting in Montreal, announced a similar certification for product safety engineers. Some will say this is an attempt at empire building or elitism, but I contend that raising the bar will benefit society as a whole and perhaps eventually elevate the status of compliance engineers from, as we were affectionately known at Fluke, Those *%holes downstairs to respected professionals. My 2 cents, Best regards, Dan Daniel E. Teninty, P.E. Managing Partner DTEC Associates LLC Streamlining The Compliance Process Advancing New Products To Market http://www.dtec-associates.com (509) 443-0215 (509) 443-0181 fax -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001
Re: Quality Assurance and product approvals
Mike, Tania hits the nail on the head with her comments. Something that I find useful in this situation is a Process Flowchart. These can be used for more than just chemical production. It more graphically illustrates the processes, interrelationships, and possible sequencing involved, especially when multiple people/departments are involved. These can be nested so that a high level flow chart can be shown to upper management (who only need the big picture) or initial trainees (who haven't a clue). More detailed ones can be used within departments or functions. Each one gives those within the process a bigger picture of what is suppose to be happening and gives them more information and motivation with which to make informed decisions. If one knows the impact of a decision outside their immediate realm of influence they may (and I emphasize may) make a decision that is positive for the entire process and not just their own little piece of it. It also makes it easier to spot failures/faults in the process. This leads to the ability of fixing the problem or revising the process. Where necessary, each of the blocks on the flow chart can have a more detailed flow chart showing the internal process (nesting). This could be continued until you actually reach a level where you are writing procedures; but, its main use is higher level viewing. A point of Tania's response to which I wish to emphasize is the need to involve others in the development. That cannot be stressed to much. It is amazing what comes out of the discussions as to how a process operates when those doing the work are asked how they think the process works. You will usually find a very diverse understanding of what people think is actually going on. Expect to be surprised yourself as to what actually is going on beyond your daily sight and the understanding others have of their roles. It is only at this point that you find out how different the actual process is to the printed one. It is at this time that you have to decide which is better, the actual process, the printed one, or another one altogether. You will probably find that both the actual and the printed processes have good elements and that somewhere in the middle is a more optimum process. There are some good software packages that are intended for process flow development. You can do the same with slide presentation graphic package but those intended for flow charting allow you to spend your time thinking instead of drawing. Well worth the minor cost. Oscar Overton oover...@lexmark.com (OAMO) Opinions are my own. Tania Grant taniagrant%msn@interlock.lexmark.com on 11/21/2001 12:18:24 AM Please respond to Tania Grant taniagrant%msn@interlock.lexmark.com To: mike harris teccomco%i-cafe@interlock.lexmark.com, amund%westin-emission...@interlock.lexmark.com, 'EMC-PSTC Discussion Group' emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: Quality Assurance and product approvals Hello Mike, It sounds as if your efforts were very well spent. I probably did not clarify that, in my opinion, people use the term procedure very loosely. Without having read your document (and therefore leaving myself open for criticism; but that's O.K.) I would say that what you wrote is not a procedure but more of a guideline or a higher level policy document. You are mostly explaining many things, providing information as to who is responsible to do what, but I don't believe you are really describing how those who are responsible are to perform their tasks. Thus, a procedure addresses repetitive tasks in detail, where the details are many and could probably be even very complex, and where probably the sequence of tasks is very crucial, and where you don't want people making mistakes no matter what their level of training is. Your document explains and describes what and describes who is to do what. If it is multi-departmental, it really falls into a category of a company wide policy. I can see that engineering, purchasing, regulatory, etc, would have their own procedures to support this higher level document. Now, why am I so fixated on not labeling such documents procedures? The problem with procedures is that there is usually a very defined format (usually Outline format) that lends itself beautifully to order and also to bureaucracy. There are times when you want bureaucracy and strict order, and there are times when you want to communicate, when you want people to understand and follow guidelines but you don't want to institute needless bureaucracy. How many of you have worked in a procedurized bureaucracy where there were many procedures that hardly anyone could follow or wanted to follow? The reason is because either the procedures were badly written and, most likely, were written at the wrong level. Proper people with training have no trouble working without any procedures provided they
RE: Metrics cost at 1991
I cannot confirm the following statement but I have attached a link identifying the actual event. Here, supposedly, is a quote from a Petrobras executive extolling the benefits of cutting QA and inspection cost on the drilling/production platform project that sunk into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Brazil in March of 2001. Petrobras has established new global benchmarks for the generation of exceptionally shareholder wealth through an aggressive and innovative programme of cost cutting on it's P36 production facility. Conventional constraints have been successfully challenged and replaced with new paradigms appropriate to the globalised corporate marketplace. Through an integrated network of facilitated workshops, the project successfully rejected the established constricting and negative influences of prescriptive engineering, onerous quality requirements, and outdated concepts of inspection and client control. Elimination of these unnecessary straightjackets has empowered the project's suppliers and contractors to propose highly economical solutions, with he win-win bonus of enhanced profitability margins for themselves. The P36 platform shows the shape of things to come in an unregulated global market economy of the 21st Century. Articles related to the sinking. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/americas/03/20/brazil.rig.03/index.html http://www.offshore-technology.com/projects/roncador/ http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m0BEK/7_9/76937714/p1/article.jhtml?term=petrobras+p-36 * Opinions and statements made are mine and mine alone and do not reflect those of my employer. Gregg Kervill gkervill%eu-link@interlock.lexmark.com on 11/02/2001 04:58:59 PM Please respond to Gregg Kervill gkervill%eu-link@interlock.lexmark.com To: woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: Metrics cost at 1991 Sorry about the HTML but this is an abstract from the book The Practical Guide to the Low Voltage Directive ISBN 0 7506 3745 5 Metrics come in all sizes - what does your management want to hear? How much we spend - how could have been save with better project management and design control - how much compliance cost? How much RD spend - How much compliance costs? (I believe that DELL commit 30% of RD to compliance) I wonder why? I wonder if their competitors would advertise the fact that We commit MUCH less than that - so buy our products. Does sell to me!!! But I have been called cynical by more that two people. LOOK at history for the TRUE cost of getting it wrong. These - hopefully explain the TRUE cost of 'keeping it right' and not just consider the cost of adding a few extra scraps of metal or fuses. Titanic ( faulty material) Challenger (Faulty gasket) Meteosat (the one with the dead French PSU that should have driven the down-link Tx) Herald of Free Enterprise (faulty 'safety' switch and operator error - drunk and asleep) GoodYear Tyres (jury still out) The problem with compliance is that the TANGIBLE COST is always evident - it is only when there is non-compliance that the intangible benefits become self evident. Please not the following abstract and the graphs. PLEASE remember that the cost indicated here are from 1991 data. However - if we are looking at OVERALL costs think also of a few of the high profile examples. COPYRIGHT Butterworth-Heinemann andGregg Kervill The Limitations of the guidance notes In addition to a detailed step by step guide to electrical safety, this book contains an Easy Guide. This provides simple, easy to follow steps that will result in a compliant product, at the same time reducing design effort, and simplifying safety compliance testing. The strength of these guidance notes is that they reduce development time and design changes, because by following the guidance it will remove many opportunities for designing a non-compliant product. The penalty for using only the Easy Guide may be that the unit cost is higher than a similar product designed following the Detailed Guidance notes. The Easy Guide is therefore particularly suited to the design of one-off equipment and low volume products Conversely, the Detailed Guidance Notes will be required for high volume, low margin products. They describe all aspects of the standard in depth allowing the designer to take advantage of low cost design options to minimise the unit cost of the final product. The penalty for using this approach is that greater knowledge of the standard and its interpretation is required and the cost of safety compliance verification can be significantly higher. Reducing costs and time to market It is surprising how few people appreciate that most of the whole life costs of a product are fixed early on during the initial design phase. The adjacent diagrams show the relative costs that can be set in stone even before
RE: Definition for Safety Critical Component
Gregg brings up a good point. I haven't followed all of this thread and I hope I'm not repeating someone else; but, just in case: Some of the things necessary to comply with the standards have less to do with safety than they do with compliance to the standard. Or in some cases the safety implications are less obvious. At a previous place of employment, in these cases we called them Compliance Critical Components. Unfortunately this was often easier to get through the management gauntlet that a Safety Critical Component. If management could not see the safety implications (or didn't buy into the rationale) they would not buy into the term Safety Critical. When we told them that third party approval would not be obtained unless this requirement was met, they basically had to acquiesce and accept it. It was from this understanding that we coined the term Compliance Critical Component It was a cop-out but it got the job done. You just have to be careful and not overuse the term. Oscar Please note that this case in not representative of my current employer/management. These opinions are mine and are in no way to be construed to represent those of my employer. Gregg Kervill gkervill%eu-link@interlock.lexmark.com on 10/30/2001 11:25:48 PM Please respond to Gregg Kervill gkervill%eu-link@interlock.lexmark.com To: 'Doug McKean' dmckean%corp.auspex@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: Definition for Safety Critical Component Sorry the change to HTML was necessary to format the table. Critical Components will including Paint (colour of the product), Labels and Instructions. There can be no definitive answer - hazards are in the eye of the beholder. The following is a good starting point - use the similarity rule to identify pneumatic and other products that store or control energy - electrical connectors - securing clips for hoses REMEMBER that safety devices that OPEN pneumatic pressure can create worse hazards that they prevent. G IEC or European Component Standard UL94 Flammability Standard Component Possible Operator-Service warning 94-V2 Air Filter Y Mains Capacitors Stored Charge Y CRT's Stored Charge Y Circuit Breakers Y Conductive Coatings Y Connectors Y Transformers and PSU Y UL Recognised Fans above 30 V UL Recognised low power fans 94 VW1 Fibre optic cable Eye Damage Y Fuses and Fuse holders Replacement Y Safety Switches Y Line filters Lithium Batteries Replacement - disposal instructions Y Mains connectors UL94-various ALL Plastic Parts Y Power cords and Mains Cables Y Mains voltage motors UL94-V1 Printed Circuit boards Y Relays in safety applications or switching hazardous voltages Y Products using primary power Y Switches in safety applications or switching hazardous voltages Isolate before removing cover Y Transient voltage surge suppressers Y Thermal controls Min - Maximum Y External cables UL94-VW1 Internal equipment wiring Eurolink Ltd. -One Link-199 Countries P.O. Box 310 Reedville, Virginia 22539 Phone: (804) 453-3141 Fax: (804) 453-9039 Web:www.eu-link.com -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Doug McKean Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 6:43 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Definition for Safety Critical Component Definition for Safety Critical ComponentI'll add to Richard's definition by saying a Safety Critical Component is a component necessary for the safety approval of the product. It's a component that prevents a person (end user or service person) from being exposed to a hazardous condition either during normal operation or from a fault. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into
RE: Steel ball for impact tests
Just don't let your ESH people see you standing on a chair to perform this test. ; ) Scott Lacey scottl%world.std@interlock.lexmark.com on 09/25/2001 05:38:44 PM Please respond to Scott Lacey scottl%world.std@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: Steel ball for impact tests To the group: Having monitored some of the discussion on this thread, I thought that I would weigh in with some of my experience with this test. The purpose of the test is to subject the E.U.T. to a specific force of impact from a hard steel impactor (ball) of known radius. The surface should be smooth to avoid subjecting the E.U.T. to additional point stress (the center punch effect). Anything else is frosting on the cake. It does not matter whether the ball is dropped or swung, as long as the force is consistent and the E.U.T. is firmly mounted. A ball bearing is perfect for the job. A typical chrome steel ball is more than hard enough to meet the specification. If the weight is a little off just raise or lower the drop height to compensate. An eyebolt is nice but not really needed. The reason the official balls cost so much is the difficulty of machining the ball for the bolt, and the fact that these are very low volume items. A trailer hitch ball will also work without modification. Just weigh it, calculate the drop height, hold it by the threaded bit and bombs away. A tube is nice but not needed if you can drop the weight accurately. The idea of standing on a chair is excellent as a 1kg ball can make a serious bruise! I would also recommend padding the floor (except under the E.U.T.) with cardboard or carpeting scraps so the ball won't get all scratched up. If you really must have an eyebolt and don't want to spend the money thread a flanged nut onto an eyebolt and epoxy it onto the ball with a steel-filled epoxy (common at auto parts stores). It may break off occasionally but you can just re-epoxy it. Just degrease all the parts before gluing and it works surprisingly well. Have Fun Scott Lacey To the group: Having monitored some of the discussion on this thread, I thought that I would weigh inwith some of my experience with this test. The purpose of the test is to subject the E.U.T. to a specific force of impact from a hard steel impactor (ball) of known radius. The surface should be smooth to avoid subjecting the E.U.T. to additional point stress (the "center punch" effect). Anything else is frosting on the cake. It does not matter whether the ball is dropped or swung, as long as the force is consistent and the E.U.T. is firmly mounted. A ball bearing is perfect for the job. A typical chrome steel ball is more than hard enough to meet the specification. If the weight is a little off just raise or lower the drop height to compensate. An eyebolt is nice but not really needed. The reason the "official" balls cost so much is the difficulty of machining the ball for the bolt, and the fact that these are very low volume items. A trailer hitch ball will also work without modification. Just weigh it, calculate the drop height, hold it by the threaded bit and "bombs away". A tube is nice but not needed if you can drop the weight accurately. The idea of standing on a chair is excellent as a 1kg ball can make a serious bruise! I would also recommend padding the floor (except under the E.U.T.) with cardboard or carpeting scraps so the ball won't get all scratched up. If you really must have an eyebolt and don't want to spend the money thread a flanged nut onto an eyebolt and epoxy it onto the ball with a steel-filled epoxy (common at auto parts stores). It may break off occasionally but you can just re-epoxy it. Just degrease all the parts before gluing and it works surprisingly well. Have Fun Scott Lacey
Re: CFR requirements for the workplace
Patty, Here is a little something that I put together previously to give to some of our folks when they asked the same question. I found it has saved a lot of time in having to present it every time I'm asked the question. (See attached file: Why NRTL Required - Generic.doc) Oscar (The usual disclaimer as related to my opinions and my employer.) Patricia Knudsen (EWU) ewupael%am1.ericsson...@interlock.lexmark.com on 09/14/2001 11:37:56 AM Please respond to Patricia Knudsen (EWU) ewupael%am1.ericsson...@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: CFR requirements for the workplace Does anyone know the specific section of the CFR that refers to equipment at the workplace (specifically computer or test equipment) being Listed by a NRTL? Patty Knudsen Sr. Regulatory Engineer Ericsson Wireless Communications (858) 332-5014 patricia.knud...@ericsson.com Why NRTL Required - Generic.doc Description: Mac Word 3.0
RE: TV nostalgia
I have noticed several responses related to the smell of the old equipment. I had been thinking the very same thing. You could trouble-shoot by the type of smell a failed component produced (cap vs. resistor, vs choke, etc.) Ever notice how connected one's memory and smells are connected? Think about the number of things, both good and bad, that particular smells recall. Fresh cut grass, a certain type of perfume, a new or old car, fresh paint, burning leaves, foods, etc. rbusche%es@interlock.lexmark.com on 08/03/2001 05:02:21 PM Please respond to rbusche%es@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: TV nostalgia How about the reported X-Ray emissions from the old high voltage regulators and the 25-35KV anode voltages? Those old color sets were beasts. It is interesting to note that the process of keeping the CRT filaments warm, (instant on) was the cause of numerous TV fires. But you know, there's something pleasant (or nostalgic) about the smell of a tube type radio or TV. Perhaps it's just my age. Rick Busche -Original Message- From: Ehler, Kyle [mailto:keh...@lsil.com] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:38 PM To: 'Ralph Cameron'; 'EMC and Safety list' Subject: RE: TV nostalgia Which reminds me of other oddball video contraptions. A few years back I had to dispose of a Heathkit GR-2000 25 TV w/onscreen digital clock option. Alas, it worked great, but the digital matrix tuner did not like CATV (ch. 2-13 only). Its entire chassis was copper plated steel. All pcb's were 94V0 and, typical of Heath products, documented more than thoroughly. Very well made! kyle -Original Message- From: Ralph Cameron [mailto:ral...@igs.net] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:41 PM To: Ehler, Kyle; 'Rich Nute'; 'EMC and Safety list' Subject: Re: TV nostalgia And lest we forget the Hallicrafters electrostatic deflection systems. You could sure get a poke off those. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Ehler, Kyle mailto:keh...@lsil.com To: 'Rich Nute' mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com ; 'EMC and Safety list' mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: RE: TV nostalgia My experience was with the Packard-Bell transistorized models. I think the aversion I have was prejudiced by the fellow who mentored me. I had little reason to doubt, but then the sets I worked on, had a callback history that may have been created by my mentor. -kyle -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [ mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com ] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:36 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: TV nostalgia Okay... more nostalgia and a bit on safety back in those days... so that we don't stray too far from the subject matter of this forum. My first TV was a Motorola 7-inch round in a Bakelite cabinet. The speaker was the same size as the CRT. My second was the famous RCA 10-inch round chassis with 32 tubes. I could pull out 15 tubes and still have a usable picture. Kyle mentions Packard Bell, which I considered a straight-forward, good product. It used the Standard Coil turret tuner. The one that won my respect was Muntz TV. It was CHEAP! When you looked inside the chassis, there was nothing there compared to the other TVs. They really knew how to take the cost out of the TV! Amazingly enough, its picture was among the best, and its reliability was indeed the best -- no parts to go bad! The company was owned by Mad Man Muntz, the classic Los Angeles used car dealer. In the mid-fifties, GE came out with a transformerless 17-inch TV. One side of the power line was tied to the chassis (2-wire plug back in those days). The only protection was the plastic knob on the shafts of the various controls. When servicing this TV, you quickly learned never to touch the chassis! The power supply was a simple full-wave rectified power line. The tube heaters were connected in a series-parallel arrangement. These sets were the initiation of UL's investigation into antenna coupling capacitors. These capacitors provided the isolation between the TV antenna terminals and the mains voltage. TV sets of those days consumed between 400 and 600 watts. When they were turned on, the cold filaments were a very low impedance, so the turn-on current was very high. The off-on switch was often mounted on the back of the volume control. Eventually, the contact resistance of the switch would grow to the point where the I**2*R power would melt the solder and the power wires would come loose. It was common to have a customer report that his TV was dead, and it was due to the lack of a good connection to the switch. At one company, we had metal bat-handle toggles blow out of the switch due to the cold filament load. Out of this experience, UL developed the requirements for the TV-rated switch, which had
RE: How Safe ???
Two quotes for which I can not give attribution. That that does not kill me, makes me stronger. That that does not kill me, only delays the inevitable. Nerad, Daren HS-SNS daren.nerad%hs.utc@interlock.lexmark.com on 07/30/2001 04:13:20 PM To: 'oover...@lexmark.com' Oscar_Overton/Lex/Lexmark.LEXMARK@sweeper.lex.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: How Safe ??? Warning: Life may cause injury or death. Not MAY; Death is one of the very few things guaranteed about life!! (Remember Marvin Gaye singing about taxes, death and trouble ? ) Daren A. Nerad EMC Engineer 815.226.6123 -Original Message- From: oover...@lexmark.com [mailto:oover...@lexmark.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:26 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: How Safe ??? In light of the recent e-traffic on labels, warnings, and litigation I think that this is a good article. A better rant than I could write (and have written). When you need a break ... ___ By Mark Morford morning...@sfgate.com All contents, except the swearing and the random blasphemy, (tm) (c) 2001 Hearst Communications Inc. MARK'S NOTES ERRATA Where opinion meets benign syntax abuse... *** Twenty-one-year-old college student bangs and rocks and tilts 900-pound Coke machine to dislodge a can of soda. Coke machine finally tips over on top of college student. College student dies. College student's parents sue Coca-Cola, vending-machine manufacturer, and school, claiming there should've been some sort of warning. The gods of Fate and Destiny shake their heads and sigh. This is a true story. Coke begins placing cautionary stickers on vending machines: Warning: Tipping may cause injury or death. This part is also true. Many employees at the vending machine company undoubtedly got a good laugh out of this, wondered what's next, stickers on fine cutlery saying Warning: Inserting butcher knife into body may cause injury or death? Or perhaps on large bridges: Warning: Leaping off may cause death or at least a bad headache. Buses? Warning: Do not step in front of this vehicle or you might die in a manner everyone jokes about and then how would you feel? The list goes on, and it too may cause injury or death. Oh how the jokes were flying, yes indeed, much like they probably were at snide ol' McDonald's HQ a few years back when that old woman spilled hot coffee on herself and sued because the coffee was too hot and it burned her and everyone knows coffee is supposed to be lukewarm and pleasing and mild. She won her case. The jokes stopped. And the cynicism began. And let us pause for a moment to pay our respects to what must be a horrendous level of sadness and loss for the family in question, what can only be a miserable and terrible event in the life of a parent. There is genuine sorrow and rage here and the need to assign blame and of course it can't be laid at the feet of the college student in question because he was clearly the innocent victim of a malicious vending machine attack and we as humans can *not* be held responsible for our frequent lapses of judgement or common sense, can we? Can we? Because after all this kid was just being a typical mindless male and was likely just following the behavior of other students who he'd seen bash the machine to score a free Mountain Dew and besides someone at the school probably knew the machine was kinda tippy and folks at the vending machine company probably knew those old models weren't as completely secure as the newer versions. But hey, it's not like the machines were malevolent capsizing demons just lying in wait for the next hapless student to come along and breathe on them wrong and then, whump. It is not as if this laptop computer right here in front of me is right this minute poised to to electrocute me if I decide to slam the lid repeatedly to get it to unfreeze. See that big bookshelf in the library? Pull on it too hard, it'll probably fall over on you. Should you sue the shelf manufacturer? The book authors? Gravity? What if our college boy had climbed atop the Coke machine and jumped off and broken his neck? Is the manufacturer responsible? The shoe company? The concrete floor? Where do you draw the line? This is the ultimate question. It's an ever-shifting line in the sand of human stupidity, a vague cultural boundary defining how much we expect our products and corporations to protect us from ourselves and how much we're willing to be answerable for our actions, a line dividing how logic-impaired we're willing to admit we sometimes are and how responsible a given corporation should be for dumping shoddy and/or dangerous products on the market without warning. In a perfect world (like, you know, Atlantis), it's a fair distribution of both, an equal balance of good faith:
Re: Front-access PDU
Actually there are many meanings for PDU. Here are those listed in a web site of acronyms (http://www.acronymfinder.com/). Acronym Definition PDU Packet Data Unit PDU Parachute Deployment Unit PDU Philippine Digital Upgrade PDU Photographic Development Unit (RAF) PDU Pilot Display Unit PDU Power Distribution Unit PDU Power Drive Unit (F-16 leading edge flap hydraulic motor that drives the leading edge flaps up or down) PDU Premises Distribution Upgrade PDU Program Decision Unit PDU Protocol Data Unit PDU Protocol Data Unit (BFTT) PDU Prototype Decision-aid Utilities PDU Prototype Development Unit ted.eckert%apcc@interlock.lexmark.com on 07/27/2001 05:52:15 PM Please respond to ted.eckert%apcc@interlock.lexmark.com To: Dave Wilson dwilson%alidian@interlock.lexmark.com cc: emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: Front-access PDU I have seen the term PDU used for two completely different types of products. Computer makers such as Compaq and Dell use the term Power Distribution Unit to refer to a rack mounted power strip. As far as they are concerned, a PDU is just a plug and set of outlets in a 1U rack mount enclosure. Electric product companies (and Underwriters Laboratories) use the term to refer to a large box with a power distribution panel. It may have one or more sets of breakers and may include a step-down transformer. Which type are you looking for and do you need a PDU that meets NEBS requirements? American Power Conversion makes the first type (rack mount power strip) that may meet your needs. Dell Computer has a variety of rack mounted power strips with configurations different from the APC strips. Ted Eckert Regulatory Compliance Engineer American Power Conversion Corporation ted.eck...@apcc.com The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC nor representing APC's official position on any matter. Dave Wilson dwil...@alidian.com To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordomSubject: Front-access PDU o.ieee.org 07/26/01 04:24 PM Please respond to Dave Wilson Does anyone know of a supplier of a totally front-access PDU for use in European CO applications? Thanks in advance, Dave Wilson Senior Compliance Engineer Alidian Networks Inc. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: How Safe ???
I find it interesting the example that was given here as contrasting with another case this site also has. http://www.injurycases.com/news.html This case is quite different and from my perspective exemplifies the problem we have been discussing here. At what point must you take responsibility for your own actions. By the way, for those of you that may not have had the time to look this one up yet, this is a Washington D.C. lawyer's site. No value judgement here, just the facts. Richard A. Schumacher schumach%rsn.hp@interlock.lexmark.com on 07/25/2001 12:42:17 PM To: lisa_cefalo%mksinst@interlock.lexmark.com cc: jjuhasz%fiberoptions@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com, Oscar_Overton/Lex/Lexmark.LEXMARK@sweeper.lex.lexmark.com, owner-emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: How Safe ??? For a short but more detailed description of the McDonald's coffee scalding case, see http://www.injurycases.com/coffee.html As that website source concludes, The McDonald's case is a good example of how the press and other interest groups can sometimes misreport an incident to serve their own purposes. More details and discussion of such mis-representations of this case (with citations) can be found in the current issue #11 of _Too Much Coffee Man_ magazine. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
How Safe ???
In light of the recent e-traffic on labels, warnings, and litigation I think that this is a good article. A better rant than I could write (and have written). When you need a break ... ___ By Mark Morford morning...@sfgate.com All contents, except the swearing and the random blasphemy, (tm) (c) 2001 Hearst Communications Inc. MARK'S NOTES ERRATA Where opinion meets benign syntax abuse... *** Twenty-one-year-old college student bangs and rocks and tilts 900-pound Coke machine to dislodge a can of soda. Coke machine finally tips over on top of college student. College student dies. College student's parents sue Coca-Cola, vending-machine manufacturer, and school, claiming there should've been some sort of warning. The gods of Fate and Destiny shake their heads and sigh. This is a true story. Coke begins placing cautionary stickers on vending machines: Warning: Tipping may cause injury or death. This part is also true. Many employees at the vending machine company undoubtedly got a good laugh out of this, wondered what's next, stickers on fine cutlery saying Warning: Inserting butcher knife into body may cause injury or death? Or perhaps on large bridges: Warning: Leaping off may cause death or at least a bad headache. Buses? Warning: Do not step in front of this vehicle or you might die in a manner everyone jokes about and then how would you feel? The list goes on, and it too may cause injury or death. Oh how the jokes were flying, yes indeed, much like they probably were at snide ol' McDonald's HQ a few years back when that old woman spilled hot coffee on herself and sued because the coffee was too hot and it burned her and everyone knows coffee is supposed to be lukewarm and pleasing and mild. She won her case. The jokes stopped. And the cynicism began. And let us pause for a moment to pay our respects to what must be a horrendous level of sadness and loss for the family in question, what can only be a miserable and terrible event in the life of a parent. There is genuine sorrow and rage here and the need to assign blame and of course it can't be laid at the feet of the college student in question because he was clearly the innocent victim of a malicious vending machine attack and we as humans can *not* be held responsible for our frequent lapses of judgement or common sense, can we? Can we? Because after all this kid was just being a typical mindless male and was likely just following the behavior of other students who he'd seen bash the machine to score a free Mountain Dew and besides someone at the school probably knew the machine was kinda tippy and folks at the vending machine company probably knew those old models weren't as completely secure as the newer versions. But hey, it's not like the machines were malevolent capsizing demons just lying in wait for the next hapless student to come along and breathe on them wrong and then, whump. It is not as if this laptop computer right here in front of me is right this minute poised to to electrocute me if I decide to slam the lid repeatedly to get it to unfreeze. See that big bookshelf in the library? Pull on it too hard, it'll probably fall over on you. Should you sue the shelf manufacturer? The book authors? Gravity? What if our college boy had climbed atop the Coke machine and jumped off and broken his neck? Is the manufacturer responsible? The shoe company? The concrete floor? Where do you draw the line? This is the ultimate question. It's an ever-shifting line in the sand of human stupidity, a vague cultural boundary defining how much we expect our products and corporations to protect us from ourselves and how much we're willing to be answerable for our actions, a line dividing how logic-impaired we're willing to admit we sometimes are and how responsible a given corporation should be for dumping shoddy and/or dangerous products on the market without warning. In a perfect world (like, you know, Atlantis), it's a fair distribution of both, an equal balance of good faith: people take full responsibility for their lives and actions and don't blame the government or the media or God or big mean corporations when they themselves are caught in incredibly dumb behavior; and concomitantly, thuggish corporations and the government take full responsibility for their products and services and don't try to duck and shirk and scam and dance around the law and pretend they had no idea nicotine was lethal or their SUV tires exploded. Instead we've devolved into a famously litigious culture that rewards competing acts of idiocy, whereby the more ignorant you can prove you are (I had no idea the machine would tip over on me if I continued to rock it violently back and forth, Your Honor), the more likely you are to earn a nice hefty settlement and warm approval from a populace whose collective intelligence will now be further degraded by yet
RE: Voltage Range in Asia
Judd, Thanks for the comment. We intend to keep the information at its present site until a more permanent site is available. This new site will be provided by the emc-pstc folks. It is not in operation yet but stay tuned as I'm sure they will announce it when it does happen. Like I said though, we intend to keep it where it is until then. Thanks to Jim Bacher for his support. Oscar * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To: john_barnes.lexm...@sweeper.lex.lexmark.com, Oscar_Overton/Lex/Lexmark.LEXMARK@sweeper.lex.lexmark.com cc: richn%sdd.hp@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: John Barnes/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re:International Power, Plugs, and Languages John and Oscar, We are getting close to launching a new eComuunittee for the emc-pstc. As part of that there is a feature called InfoPiece. We believe that your page would be a good item for the first infopiece on the new server and we would like to place your information into one of the InfoPieces. It would be a higher performance server. Would this be OK with you? Would you mind keeping it up to date once it is there? I have yet to create one so I do not know what can and can not be done, but it should be easy. Jim * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Stewart, Judd stewart.judd.b%sd.littonisd@interlock.lexmark.com on 06/27/2001 07:17:15 PM To: 'oover...@lexmark.com' Oscar_Overton/Lex/Lexmark.LEXMARK@sweeper.lex.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: Voltage Range in Asia Thanks for sharing! All I can say is wow! What an endeavor...Just Don't MOVE IT ! Judd Stewart Litton Integrated Systems San Diego -Original Message- From: oover...@lexmark.com [mailto:oover...@lexmark.com] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 4:12 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Voltage Range in Asia File: Internet HTML Luis, Try the following site. We are not trying to sell anything, just provide information. ftp://ftp.lexmark.com/pub/networking/internat.htm We would appreciate any feedback on your assessment of the site. Any way to improve it would be appreciated. Oscar Luiz Claudio luizbonilla%ig.com...@interlock.lexmark.com on 06/22/2001 05:29:03 AM Please respond to Luiz Claudio luizbonilla%ig.com...@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc: luiz_c_bonilla%multibras.com...@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Voltage Range in Asia Dear Colleagues, I am trying to find reliable information regarding the actual voltage range found in some Asian countries. I already have some information, but it looks like the actual conditions are worse than those published. Since travelling to each country with a multimeter would be quite expensive, I would really appreciate if someone could give me some help. Specifically, I am looking for information about the following countries: Taiwan Thailand Philippines Hong Kong Singapore India Malaysia South Korea Thanks in advance for your kind attention. Regards, Luiz --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Voltage Range in Asia
Luis, Try the following site. We are not trying to sell anything, just provide information. ftp://ftp.lexmark.com/pub/networking/internat.htm We would appreciate any feedback on your assessment of the site. Any way to improve it would be appreciated. Oscar Luiz Claudio luizbonilla%ig.com...@interlock.lexmark.com on 06/22/2001 05:29:03 AM Please respond to Luiz Claudio luizbonilla%ig.com...@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc: luiz_c_bonilla%multibras.com...@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Voltage Range in Asia Dear Colleagues, I am trying to find reliable information regarding the actual voltage range found in some Asian countries. I already have some information, but it looks like the actual conditions are worse than those published. Since travelling to each country with a multimeter would be quite expensive, I would really appreciate if someone could give me some help. Specifically, I am looking for information about the following countries: Taiwan Thailand Philippines Hong Kong Singapore India Malaysia South Korea Thanks in advance for your kind attention. Regards, Luiz Dear Colleagues, I am trying to find reliable information regarding the actual voltage range found in some Asian countries. I already have some information, but it looks like the actual conditions are worse than those published. Since travelling to each country with a multimeter would be quite expensive, I would really appreciate if someone could give me some help. Specifically, I am looking for information about the following countries: Taiwan Thailand Philippines Hong Kong Singapore India Malaysia South Korea Thanks in advance for your kind attention. Regards, Luiz
Re: Safety in General ...
Let me interject a bit here. In the introduction the System Safety Analysis Handbook, published by the System Safety Society (http://www.system-safety.org/), it identifies a hazard control precedence for not only minimizing risk due to the hazard itself, but also to minimize the chances of people bypassing or ignoring the very controls intended to keep them uninjured or alive. It goes like this: 1. Design to eliminate hazardous condition 2. Design for minimum risk 3. Design in safety devices (e.g., interlocks, guards) 4. Design separate warning devices (e.g., lights, audibles, signs) 5. Develop operating procedures and train personnel 6. Develop administrative rules 7. Management decision to accept the risk If the first cannot be met then the second is attempted and so on down the line. There may be cases of multiple levels of precedence of control (e.g., minimum risk design with guards, lights, audibles, signs; and training procedures and manuals that include warnings. Never ever rely only on procedural controls when there is any other method of hazard control. There are many examples beyond those given here that indicate you can't expect everyone to protect themselves. Product manufacturers have no control of the last two in the workplace. Administrative rules are developed by the customer. This is not a shot at management but is a general statement. Those that are in a position to accept the risk are, generally, not those that are exposed to the risk. It makes it easier for one to accept something to which they are not exposed. The only management control we have is to not market the product if we feel it has excessive risk. This hierarchy is opposite to that which some initially propose; tell them not to do it or . . . put a warning label on it. The problem is that to do the top things on the precedence requires the safety people to get involved very early in the development. That often does not happen. Some times the safety department is handed a finished product and told to get it certified/approved. I don't want to sound sarcastic here but I think that the statement: But if the product is being sold to the general public, remember the customer base can have as much as -2 full deviations (that's minus two) from the mean IQ of the population. is a bit optimistic in saying that it can have and -2. I would suggest it does have and the value is greater that -2. Oscar I would recommend the referenced handbook to any who are involved in the art of hazard analysis and evaluation. For the price it is a gold mine of information from many government agencies and corporations both national and international. It comes in a 500+ page loose leaf notebook or on CD. I do not derive any royalties nor does any organization in which I am affiliated with derive any royalties from this product. It's just a good resource. * * Any comments and opinions stated here are my own and * * not of my employer. Any hypothetical statements or* * situations are exactly that and are not representative * * of my current or past employer(s).* * Doug McKean dmckean%corp.auspex@interlock.lexmark.com on 06/21/2001 12:28:55 PM Please respond to Doug McKean dmckean%corp.auspex@interlock.lexmark.com To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Safety in General ... Tania Grant wrote: Doug, If I understand you correctly, you are referring to the remaining connector (or pins or traces) in the equipment which is still under power. Yes. O.K., let me tell you what UL and CSA made me do with equipment that is NOT user accessible, but only accessible to trained service personnel. Yes. This is a perfect case of required warnings being used no matter if the person is an end user or repairer. snipped material Never underestimate the stupidity of people challenged by some intriguing label or instruction! However, a trained serviceman should accept your label at face value. Yes, I had an interesting case with a laser and a trained technician once. Seems he decided to look down the fiber to check if the laser was on. It was an IR device (invisible to the naked eye) and running at about 15mW. When I was asked about it by marketing, I said, make sure to tell the technician not to look at the laser with his remaining good eye ... Luckily, the guy wasn't harmed, but they got the point. Unintended consequences abound, but it is not our responsibility to design simple common sense into everything that's made. It's our responsibility for due diligence, good engineering practices, safety, etc ... But if the product is being sold to the general public, remember the customer base can have as much as -2 full deviations
Re: Useful Typing Shortcuts
This is a great idea. Thx. A similar approach, used a lot in U.S. government documents, is to state the acronym in parentheses immediately after the first use and then just use the acronym throughout the rest of the document as if everyone knows what it means. (i.e., When setting up the Really Big Widget (RBW) the first thing to do is . .. .. and then later . . . When troubleshooting the RBW you need to keep in mind that . . . ) Of course in really big government documents they also have an acronym page to keep track of all of them. Oscar Scott Lacey scottl%world.std@interlock.lexmark.com on 06/13/2001 05:56:07 PM Please respond to Scott Lacey scottl%world.std@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Useful Typing Shortcuts To the group, While the thread Re:Typing Shortcuts is quite interesting and entertaining, there is a typing shortcut that is very useful when typing test reports. Instead of repeatedly typing some long title such as Really Big Widget you just type RBW throughout the report. Later you you use the word processor's search and replace function to substitute the actual text. I find that it saves me hundreds of keystrokes in a typical report. Scott B. Lacey Test Engineer --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Typing Shortcuts
FWIW - HTH A couple of others I have encountered. Not in alphabetical order but more in context order. AFAIK, probably too many to really be beneficial. NRN OO TLA - three letter acronym IAW - in accordance with IMCO - in my considered opinion IMNSHO - in my not so humble opinion FTHP - faster than humanly possible (a little faster than ASAP, usually when marketing wants it) FYI - for your information JTLYK - just to let you know RTSM - read the stupid manual AFAIK - as far as I know OTTOMH - off the top of my head CMIIW - correct me if I'm wrong IOW - in other words FWIW - for what it's worth HTH - hope this helps AAMOF - as a matter of fact AKA - also known as BTDT - been there, done that DGT - don't go there YBS - you´ll be sorry IRL - in real life GMTA - great minds think alike WFM - works for me SITD - still in the dark HHIS- hanging head in shame ROTFL - rolling on the floor laughing FOCL - fell off chair laughing CNP... - continued in next post NRN - no reply necessary OO - over and out (carryover from the two-way radio days) (also my initials) There are also many sites that include the emoticons used to display emotions in connection with a written comment. e.g. : - ) for a smile : - 0 for suprise : - ( for a frown and many others. Just type emoticon into your web searcher and you'll find plenty of sites. Oscar Overton woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com on 06/13/2001 12:36:26 PM Please respond to woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: Typing Shortcuts BTW = by the way LOL - laughing out loud IMHO = in my humble opinion YMMV = your mileage may vary (i.e., you may obtain different results) Richard Woods -- From: rehel...@mmm.com [SMTP:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 12:19 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Typing Shortcuts Over time I have come across many typing shortcuts using the English language, such as: OTOH - on the other hand WRT - with regard to BTW - (I am still trying to figure out this one) Can someone please list the more common ones? I sometimes strain my brain trying to figure them out and they are in my own language. It must be terribly confusing to most of our world-wide colleagues. Thanks, Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Public Health and Safety Signs - Tomfoolery so delete if you
I once read a safety article (tongue-in-cheek I believe) that said that the safety industry was weaking the species by allowing the weak and feable to continue exist and procreate. I believe that this was directed toward the mentally weak and feable (read stoopid). By warning them about things that generally intellegient people would know were hazardous, this special group would reproduce and create even more special people. Ultimately, the special people would out number the others to such an extent that homosapiens would face extinction. One of the assumptions was that these special people, through their routine actions, would eliminate most of the other people through collateral damage. (e.g. drunk drivers, cell phone drivers, equipment operators, greedy managers with only the bottom line in mind (otherwise known as bottom feeders)) Well, it has gotten to the point, as Tania has so elegantly pointed out, that the safety profession only facilitates this; but the legal and political system now rewards being special (again read stoopid). Not only do we protect them and allow them to procreate, we pay them large sums of money to those special people for being so special. Tania Grant taniagrant%msn@interlock.lexmark.com on 05/18/2001 09:11:49 PM Please respond to Tania Grant taniagrant%msn@interlock.lexmark.com To: Gary McInturff gary.mcinturff%worldwidepackets@interlock.lexmark.com, 'Michael Mertinooke' mertinooke%skyskan@interlock.lexmark.com, woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: Public Health and Safety Signs - Tomfoolery so delete if you Gary, Kudos to you for trying;-- but I think you are confusing your metaphors. And you can't equate logic with brainless juries or judges. And you know better than to rely on warning labels for safety protection! 1. It is assumed that intelligent people will make intelligent choices when opening a bottle with Warning labels that state the content can do you in. 2. It is assumed that a nursing baby, while potentially intelligent, does not have the capability to make any choices whatsoever as to what she is consuming. 3. It is assumed that a lactating mother has a direct effect on the well being of her baby. 4. Therefore, the mother is the responsible party for any adverse effects the baby may suffer due to conditions such as described in 1. above. 5. Therefore, we can assume that any decision rendered otherwise by judge and/or jury is brainless. For technological widgets we bend over backwards to make them safe and we don't rely on labels to protect the general user (trained service persons, however, can be protected by labels in certain cases). However, our legislators/politicians think they can affect and protect our behavior by labels and warning statements.This does not really work;--warning labels are for others, never for ourselves! So, what is the answer? -- Education for intelligent people; and safe design (in case of a single fault, and a subsequent fault) for dumb widgets. Plastering warning labels on breasts will no more eliminate alcoholic babies than plastering warning labels on men's ... will eliminate HIV. Tania Grant taniagr...@msn.com - Original Message - From: Gary McInturff Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 5:33 PM To: 'Michael Mertinooke'; wo...@sensormatic.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Public Health and Safety Signs - Tomfoolery so delete if you Here in the US, awhile back, a woman was suing the liquor industry because she gave birth to a fetal alcohol syndrome child. Apparently, nobody in their right mind would assume that consuming a fifth of whiskey a day could be harmful to a developing fetus making the liquor industry patiently and damnably negligent in not putting warning labels on the bottles. (We got them now thank God!) During the coverage of the trial, and I don't remember the context, but the issue of passing nastiness to infants who were being breast fed was also brought up. While I didn't hear the end of this I often have wondered that if that was true, and this woman's case had merit (her lawyer took it up didn't he?) then the logical extension would be that mothers milk should come with a warning. Soo Just what the heck will this label look like, and even more importantly, just where are they going to put it so that people, can easily read it! Gary -Original Message- From: Michael Mertinooke [mailto:mertino...@skyskan.com] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 12:37 PM To: wo...@sensormatic.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Public Health and Safety Signs signs at work. Is there a similar Directive for health and safety signs for the general public? Whoo! The mind boggles! You mean with like people with exclamation point in triangle tattoos on various portions of the anatomy? Or
Re: AC Power Primer?
Re:Rick Busche's question. We all probably agree that a phase to neutral connection is single phase and devices that use all three phases, whether they are 208V 60Hz or 400V 50Hz, are truly three phase. The discussion heats up when you are talking about a phase to phase connection on a three phase distribution (208 or 400V). Is this called single phase or two phase? It has been suggested that in the European community it is called two phase, while in the U.S. we call it single phase. I am looking for opinions or discussion on this issue. Response: I don't know the official answer but as for the phase-to-phase, why not just call it that? Some one somewhere has to make names for the others, let's just decide right here and not to start calling the phase-to-phase system phase-to-phase. That is the most descriptive and eliminates the single or two phase quandary. * * * * * * Re: Fred Townsend's hypothetical. Think where we would be today if Edison had won. Response: Well, we wouldn't be talking about the number of phases. We would have developed something different with which to confuse people. Oscar No body, no where, no how, is responsible for any thing I say. Unless of course they like it and then they thought of it first. Therefore, this is yours to do with as you see fit. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: switching NRTLs
Chris, There may be some hungry NRTLs or some that have existing cooperative agreements with another NRTL, but would you take complete responsibility and liability to sell a product under your name that another company designed and tested by taking their word that everything was OK with the product? Just a thought. OO Colgan, Chris chris.colgan%tagmclarenaudio@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/06/2001 09:02:59 AM Please respond to Colgan, Chris chris.colgan%tagmclarenaudio@interlock.lexmark.com To: 'Emc-Pstc' (E-mail) emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: switching NRTLs Has anyone had any experience of switching NRTLs? Is it possible to do so without incurring huge expense for retesting products ie is there a NRTL that would accept test reports/certificates of another? I would be grateful to hear from anyone that has attempted or done this you can't all be satisfied customers. Regards Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com * http://www.tagmclarenaudio.com ** Please visit us at www.tagmclarenaudio.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclarenaudio.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Product Risks
My two cents . . . And many of those related to part failure are still related to human error. There is some evidence that the Firestone problem is related to under inflated tires which is a driver responsibility. This doesn't even address the faulty maintenance that causes accidents that may never be attributed to human error beyond the driver. (i.e. faulty brake jobs, missing lug nuts, etc.) There was a news report recently that showed recording of a State Patrolman's car camera. While stopped for a traffic accident the camera recorded a car crossing the median in a slow rotation and striking a tow truck that was trying to remove the first wrecked vehicles. The reporter stated that the cause was the bad weather. Did the driver have any responsibility for driving too fast on ice covered roads? Besides the litigious culture, we want to blame all of our problem on someone else. I agree that virtually all of the automotive accidents are traceable to the nut that holds the steering wheel. OO George_Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark.LEXMARK@sweeper.lex.lexmark.com on 01/24/2001 04:36:15 PM Please respond to George_Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark.LEXMARK@sweeper.lex.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Product Risks Allow me to make one addendum to my prior note before I get blasted by the readers. I implied that virtually all traffic accidents are due to bad drivers. I overlooked the infamous Firestone tire episode. However, this does not alter my position. If you had a pie diagram indicating the accidents vs. (1) bad driver choices, and (2) vehicle defects, the latter would be a barely discernable sliver. George --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: UL60950, Third Edition
You can go to the following site: http://www.comm-2000.com/; This is the new UL vendor for standards. UL 60950 is at the bottom of the following page: http://www.comm-2000.com/ULstandard7.asp?PassCondition=ALLPages=16; Took me about a week to get one in the mail and they also have electronic versions. They also have the subscription service. Oscar jschanker%adaptivebroadband@interlock.lexmark.com on 01/03/2001 09:06:53 AM Please respond to jschanker%adaptivebroadband@interlock.lexmark.com To: jim_bacher%mail.monarch@interlock.lexmark.com, peter.tarver%sanmina@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: UL60950, Third Edition Peter Tarver, in the message below, mentions he obtained a new edition of the IT safety standard CSA60950/UL60950. I have been unable to locate a Dec. 1, 2000 edition of UL60950 on the IHS Global DOcument website, nor have I found a CSA60950 on CSA's website. Global only shows the proposed 3rd edition from 1999. Can anyone point me in the right direction for ordering a copy? Thanks, Jack Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. Director of Agency Compliance Adaptive Broadband Corporation 615 Fishers Run Victor, NY 14564 +716 742 6154 (voice) +716 742 6102 (fax) +716 820 7364 (US cellphone) +0777 992 5368 (UK cellphone) jschan...@adaptivebroadband.com -Original Message- From: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com [mailto:jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com] Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 2:45 PM To: peter.tar...@sanmina.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re:UL60950, Third Edition forwarding for Peter... Reply Separator Subject:UL60950, Third Edition Author: peter.tar...@sanmina.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 12/21/00 10:57 AM Jim - Please forward to the EMC-PSTC list. Early this week I received a copy of CSA60950/UL60950, Third Edition, the new Bi-National Standard, based on IEC60950, Third Edition. The edition number was maintained to correspond with the IEC standard edition number. Publication date is 1DEC2000. Nifty. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE peter.tar...@sanmina.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Seeking assistance from Chemical Experts
From the UL Test Data Sheets provided to me by my UL engineering office, the material listed in the text of the test data sheet is kerosene. I don't know what the actual physical characteristics are, but if UL uses this for their test I would assume that it is acceptable for me to use. Kerosene is an easy product to obtain and is not that expensive. I have included an excerpt of the UL 1950 test data sheet that I was given by UL. Oscar # Excerpt from the UL 1950 Test Data Sheets # 1.7.15 - PERMANENCE OF MARKING TEST: METHOD A sample of the marking label was subjected to this test. The surface of each marking as noted below was rubbed by hand for a period of 15 seconds with a water soaked cloth, and again for a period of 15 seconds with a cloth soaked with the petroleum spirit noted below. RESULTS TEST CONDITIONS: Use of Marking _ Material_ Held by _ Applied Surface Material_ OBSERVATIONS: Water Kerosene Any Damage? _ _ Legible? _ _ Curled? _ _ Edge Lifted? _ _ Easily Removed Intact?_ _ The marking was/was not durable and legible. Comments:___ _ Document: 060.Eng # End of Excerpt from UL 1950 # kmccormickinc%hotmail@interlock.lexmark.com on 01/02/2001 01:12:36 PM Please respond to kmccormickinc%hotmail@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Seeking assistance from Chemical Experts Recently, I was asked to show that the hexane that I was using for UL1950 and related standards (Marking durability test of 1.7.15) infact complied with the requirements in the standard, Specifically: The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane having a maximum aromatics content of a 0.1% by volume, a kauri-butanol value of 29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65°C, a dry point of approximately 69°C and a mass per unit volume of approximately 0.7 kg/l. I am communicating with the company that I purchased the chemical from, and all I get is the MSDS Sheets which do not have all of the above information. Has anyone else had to locate these specifications? How did you go about obtaining them. I am not opposed to having a lab test for these characteristics, but I have no clue where to begin with such a test...chemistry was NOT my best subject! I know that this conversation came up in the past and I believe everyone agreed that standard hexane would suffice...I just need to be able to show that hexane meets the above requirements. Thanks in advance, Kenneth _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Risk assessment
This is also the Risk Assessment matrix that all military services and several other government agencies used in program/product development. It is included in Mil-Std-882D, DOD Standard Practice for System Safety - released February 2000. System Safety is generally the equivalent to Product Safety. This standard is not a specification standard but a management standard. It provides a list of different tasks that can be imposed on a contractor to investigate for hazards, assign value to the hazard risk, and evaluate corrective action for elimination or mitigation of the risk. It is a good tool. Another tool that complements this for risk assessment and is well worth the cost is the System Safety Analysis Handbook - A Source Book for Safety Practictioners published by the System Safety Society. You can get a copy of MIL-STD-882D at the following site: http://www.system-safety.org/ They also have a copy of MIL-STD-1472F - DOD Design Criteria Standard Human Engineering - released August 1999 You can also purchase either a paper copy or CD of the Handbook from here. The site provides a table of contents and an matrix of the methods and practices included in the handbook. Here is a excerpt from the handbook description: The Handbook is a stand-alone document. The 2nd Edition of the Handbook has 626 pages and contains a compilation of 101 analysis techniques and methodologies, plus other related information for every safety practitioner. It addresses system safety planning, Process Safety Management (including OSHA and EPA requirements), software system safety, and a section on the application of fuzzy and hybrid mathematics to safety analysis. A glossary is included. The reference section includes a recommended readings list. rloop%hnt.wylelabs@interlock.lexmark.com on 12/08/2000 10:34:51 AM Please respond to rloop%hnt.wylelabs@interlock.lexmark.com To: jorgensen%skyskan@interlock.lexmark.com cc: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: Risk assessment Hi Stig, One of my side jobs is in the Army National Guard Field Artillery. We perform a risk assessment at each firing point we pull into using an Army manual, FM 100-14 (Risk Management). I was surprised to see how closely their documentation parallels EN 1050 in many aspects. Here's a quick look at some of the terms and definitions used that relate to your inquiry: Hazard Severity: *Severity - The expected consequences of an event in terms of degree of injury, property damage or mission-impairing factors. * Catastrophic - Death or permanent total disability, system loss, major damage, significant property damage or mission failure. *Critical - Permanent partial disability, temporary total disability in excess of three months, major system damage, significant property damage or significant mission degradation. *Marginal - Minor injury, lost workday incident, minor system damage, minor property damage, or some mission degradation. *Negligible - First aid or minor medical treatment, minor system impairment, little or no impact on mission. Hazard Probability: *Probability - The likelihood an event will occur. *Frequent - Occurs often or continuously experienced. *Likely - Occurs several times. *Occasional - Occurs sporadically. *Seldom - Unlikely, but could occur at some time. *Unlikely - Can assume it will not occur Hope this is helpful. Sincerely, Robert Loop Engineering Supervisor Wyle Laboratories Product Safety ph - (256) 837-4411 x313 fax- (256) 721-0144 e-mail: rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com -- From: Stig Jorgensen[SMTP:jorgen...@skyskan.com] Reply To:Stig Jorgensen Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 2:24 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Risk assessment Hi Group,Dec 07,2000 I am in the process of establishing the potential for an injury from a hazard. I can get a reasonable 'expression' to describe the potential for a hazard to turn into an accident (event). I am looking for the words that classifies the degree of an injury. Can some one direct me to some standard definitions? Do we base it on the length of work stoppage? i.e. a minor burn on a finger tip smarts for an hour or two. A good shock working with vacuum tubes, 300V, slowed you down for the rest of the day and so on. Has some one worked out a practical scale for the degree of an injury. It can be numbers or words as long as they are defined. If it does not exist let us generate one that we all agree on.-- or most of us. When it comes to property damage I think that a monetary replacement cost would be expressed in 'small', 'medium', 'large' etc where each is defined in 'very' general monetary terms. Thank you for your assistance. Sincerely Stig W. Jorgensen jorgen...@skyskan.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society
RE: safe voltage limits for cattle ( cows horses etc)
This was quite a moooving exchange. Gert was obviously on the horns of a dilema. Even though there was a lot at steak, I believe that Gert was steered in the right direction. In addition to the voltage, the current would depend on whether your beef was ground(ed) but you can't hide from the real risk. I think that I've milked this for about all I can (and more than I should). I'd better hoof it out of here while I still can. OO cetest%cetest...@interlock.lexmark.com on 11/14/2000 01:35:23 PM Please respond to cetest%cetest...@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: safe voltage limits for cattle ( cows horses etc) Thanks for your replies; i know it's a funny question but it seems that cows really care .. Regards, Gert Gremmen, (Ing) Ce-test, qualified testing == Web presence http://www.cetest.nl CE-shop http://www.cetest.nl/ce_shop.htm /-/ Compliance testing is our core business /-/ == -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of CE-test - Ing. Gert Gremmen - ce-marking and more... Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 12:35 PM To: Emc-Pstc@Ieee. Org Subject: safe voltage limits for cattle ( cows horses etc) hello Group, Can anyone point me in the right direction to a standard or technical report concerning safe voltage limits for farm animals especially cows. The beasts will be in touch on a regular basis with a DC voltage used to charge a fence pulse generator. I know the cows are being pulsed using 10 kV when touching the fence, but a DC voltage may be different. Thanks in advance. Regards, Gert Gremmen, (Ing) Ce-test, qualified testing == Web presence http://www.cetest.nl CE-shop http://www.cetest.nl/ce_shop.htm /-/ Compliance testing is our core business /-/ == Thanks for your replies; i know it's a funny question but it seems that cows really care .. Regards, Gert Gremmen, (Ing) Ce-test, qualified testing == Web presence http://www.cetest.nl CE-shop http://www.cetest.nl/ce_shop.htm /-/ Compliance testing is our core business /-/ == -Original Message-From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of CE-test - Ing. Gert Gremmen - ce-marking and more...Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 12:35 PMTo: Emc-Pstc@Ieee. OrgSubject: safe voltage limits for cattle ( cows horses etc) hello Group, Can anyone point me in the right direction to a standard or technical report concerning safe voltage limits for farm animals especially cows. The beasts will be in touch on a regular basis with a DC voltage used to charge a fence pulse generator. I know the cows are being pulsed using 10 kV when touching the fence, but a DC voltage may be different. Thanks in advance. Regards, Gert Gremmen, (Ing) Ce-test, qualified testing == Web presence http://www.cetest.nl CE-shop http://www.cetest.nl/ce_shop.htm /-/ Compliance testing is our core business /-/ == attachment: Notebook.jpgattachment: Gert_Gremmen.vcf
Re: Power Line Voltages
Randy, I know that you already received a couple of sites but I've noticed that different sites have different data. Most of it is in agreement but some of it is not. Here are several that I use to compare. http://www.panelcomponents.com/guide.htm http://www.quail.com/locator/index.html http://www.clary.com/Service/IntVoltage.asp http://kropla.com/electric.htm http://www.leviton.com/pdfs/electricord/technical.pdf When I can't come to a confortable consensus I contact the embassay for that country. http://www.embassyworld.com/directories/International_Voltages.html Please realize that some of these are commercial sites and have products to sell. I find that some of these tend to have better and more accurate information. They have good reason to keep current (excuse the pun). Hope this helps. Oscar randall.flinders%emulex@interlock.lexmark.com on 10/04/2000 08:00:06 PM Please respond to randall.flinders%emulex@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Power Line Voltages Greetings group! I am looking for a resource, preferrably but not neccessarily on the web, were I can get all of the power line voltages and frequencies for every country. This includes Europe, The Pac Rim, Autralia, Africa, Middle East, etc Can anyone direct me to this information? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Regards, Randy Flinders EMC Engineer Emulex Corp. r.flind...@ieee.org attachment: Randall.Flinders.vcf
Re: Protection or Control?
Luiz, I am coming from a risk assessment perspective only, not a standards or regulation one. What is the worst case result of every device going bad and leaving the heat on? What is the probability of this occuring? Base your decision on these points. Where is your limit of risk? What if the bi-metalic strip failed at turn-on the heater would be on for the maximum time the timer would allow. Would there be a hazardous condition if this happened? Many standards call for protection from single faults but we all know that most mishaps occur after multiple faults. What is the failure mode of the timer or the circuit associated with the timer? Can it fail ON? Would you know if either of these devices or circuits failed? If there is no way to detect a protective circuit failure then it cannot be relied on to be a safety device. IMHO you should include a thermal fuse. Oscar luizbonilla%ig.com...@interlock.lexmark.com on 09/21/2000 10:53:27 PM Please respond to luizbonilla%ig.com...@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Protection or Control? I would like to thank all of you who replied my message. I'll read carefully all of them. Now I would like to give my oppinion. It is my belief that, in most of applications, a bimetal cannot be considered as a protection device. As I said in my previous message, a bimetal is usually used to maintain the temperature within certain limits under NORMAL operation conditions. I mean, if everything works fine, the bimetal will not expose the user to a dangerous situation. However, if a FAULT occurs, the bimetal itself will not eliminate the HAZARDOUS CONDITION. It may open and close its contacts undefinetly until it fails (melts, weld its contacts, etc.). A proper protection against an ABNORMAL condition would be a thermal fuse or another device that would open its contacts and not close it again or will melt (like a fuse), requiring an intervention (maintenance, resetting, etc.) to put the product in order again. Now, let's say that a timer controls the operation of a heater. The duration of the operation of the heater is defined by both the timer and the bimetal that controls the temperature achieved in a compartment. Either can controls how long the heater stays on. This means that if the bimetal fails (welds its contacts), the timer will open the circuit after a certain time (already defined by previous tests). The timer can be either electronic or electromechanical. In this situation, would you require a second temperature actuated device (like a thermal fuse)? Consider that you are talking about a Class I product (grounded through the plug grounding prong) and the heater case is grounded!! Thanks again for your insights!! Luiz I would like to thank all of you who replied my message. I'll read carefully all of them. Now I would like to give my oppinion. It is my belief that, in most of applications, a bimetal cannot be considered as a protection device. As I said in my previous message, a bimetal is usually used to maintain the temperature within certain limits under NORMAL operation conditions. I mean, if everything works fine, the bimetal will not expose the user to a dangerous situation. However, if a FAULT occurs, the bimetal itself will not eliminate the HAZARDOUS CONDITION. It may open and close its contacts undefinetlyuntil it fails (melts, weld its contacts, etc.). A proper protection against an ABNORMAL condition would be a thermal fuse or another device that would open its contacts and not close it again or will melt (like a fuse), requiring an intervention(maintenance, resetting, etc.) to put the product in order again. Now, let's say that a timer controls the operation of a heater. The duration of the operation of the heater is defined by both the timer and the bimetal that controls the temperature achieved ina compartment. Either can controls how long the heater stays on. This means that if the bimetal fails (welds its contacts), the timer will open the circuit after a certain time (already defined by previous tests). The timer can be either electronic or electromechanical. In this situation, would you require a second temperature actuated device (like a thermal fuse)? Consider that you are talking about a Class I product (grounded through the plug grounding prong) and the heater case is grounded!! Thanks again for your insights!! Luiz
Re: What safety lesson we may learn from Concord crash?
The question was Do we really have to pay so high price to learn the lesson? My response is in two parts. The first one is, as I assume you believe since you ask the question in the context you did, no -- not really. The second one is yes, look at history. I was in the US Air Force for 23 year, the last 9 in System Safety for various development and test programs. There are two things that will continue to keep us at the blood threshold *. The first is economics. Both time and money. The second is human attitude, which is partially driven by the first, but is also driven by the attitude that it won't happen to me. On the first point, how much can you afford spend to prevent mishaps and still make a profit or stay within budget? How long can you delay a product delivery and still satisfy the customer, or even have one if your competitor beats you to it? (In the military this is seen as meeting a threat before it overcomes you.) On the second point, budgets and schedules impact our decision making. If we don't meet the deadline we might be replaced. The news history is replete with stories of people who have tried to get safety issues corrected before a project was finished. They are called whistle blowers. They usually pay a high price for their integrity. Additionally, just like adolescents but in a different way, we think we are invincible. Problems only happen to others that are not as good as we are. We will do it better and avoid the same problems. But we never seem to attempt to learn the lessons being taught by another's failures. How do these play into the standards and regulation development. The same way as it does in product development. It is often driven by economics and time. We hesitate to impose a requirement on ourselves that might cost us profit or schedule. We aren't intentionally trying to hurt anyone and if we knew if one of our decisions to limit the scope of a standard was the direct result of an injury or death, we would be regretful. It is just that since we don't see the immediate payoff of a stricter standard and we do see the immediate cost, we tend to not impose the more strict requirement. I realize that this is a rather jaded view. Most of the safety professionals that I have met are truly concerned and dedicated to their work in minimizing risk. I think the bigger problem is not the safety professionals but the profit (budget), promotion, ego, stockholder, and customer driven environment in which we are working. There are so many engineers and managers on programs that the responsibility is now diluted to the point where no one is responsible. The Company is as fault and the insurance will take care of any losses. I know that insurance is necessary, but like every other protective system we develop, we start relying on it for primary protection instead of back up. Another element in the problem is individuals that are into product (system) safety because of reasons other than that is what they wanted to do. I have met several people that were doing safety work because the company needed some safety people and picked someone that was expendable from another department. Or a department was being eliminated or downsized and a position was offered in product safety instead of letting that person go. That is not to demean those who have been chosen (I have met some really good safety people from that situation), but to show the attitude of management toward what it takes to be a safety engineer, manager, whatever you want to call the position. When I first got into system safety, a co-worker ask me who I ticked off to get stuck in that job. I had to inform him that I had worked hard and risked much to take that safety job. But it illustrates the perception that many have of product safety. To get back to the point of regulation. As long as engineers/accounting/marketing/management/customers see regulations as a hindrance and a cost, we will continue to see mishaps such as the Concord, Arian, Challenger, Hyatt Regency, Pinto, ad infinitum. Gentlemen and Ladies, we have job security because without us there would be no one to blame for missing all the errors that cause mishaps. Please don't get me wrong -- I love my job and have been doing it for over 15 years now and intend to do it for at least another 15 years. As the famous philosopher, Clint Eastwood, has said, A man's gotta know his limitations. We do what we can, we tilt at windmills, and know that without us; it would be a lot worse. We try to use the examples of the failures of the past to convince the engineers and managers that the future doesn't have to be the same. * The blood threshold is the point where action is delayed until a mishap is serious enough that an serious injury or death occurs, at which time vigorous action ensues. Minor mishaps that do not result in any significant action, even though they are indicative of a pending Major mishap. The views expressed do not
RE: Mars Lander EMC problem?
IMNSHO I must disagree. It is the political influences that cause most of the poor management within NASA. Granted, you have some senators that are wanting to look good by sticking their fingers into the NASA business but the NASA higher management is doing the same in return in order to get more money and power to do its thing. The internal workings (?) of NASA are so infected with political intrigue that most decisions are not based on engineering expertise but on political concerns. This politics starts at the top with the interface with the politicians and goes down to the lowest rank and file employee trying to keep his/her job by satisifying his/her boss's petty concerns about how something will look in a briefing or a report. barry_ma%altavista@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/30/2000 07:59:59 PM Please respond to barry_ma%altavista@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: Mars Lander EMC problem? Lou, IMHO, the poor management problem does not only belong to NASA, also to the senate committee. The committee should help NASA improve their Verification and Qualification procedure. Not long ago NASA had a failed mission due to a design mistake omitting transition unit for propelling force in Pound to Kilogram. Pretty soon they had the second failed mission. This time it is because The software ... was not properly implemented (see the NASA report below). Are all these overlook mistakes are forgivable to taxpayers? Barry Ma b...@anritsu.com -- Original Text -- From: Lou Gnecco l...@tempest-inc.com, on 3/30/00 2:20 PM: Sen. McCain is on the committee that oversees NASA. He recently said that the basic problem is poor management. IMHOP he's right. lou -- Scott Lacey Below is an excerpt from the complete NASA report. Premature shutdown of descent engines. PLAUSIBLE. A magnetic sensor is provided in each of the three landing legs to sense touchdown when the lander contacts the surface, initiating the shutdown of the descent engines. Data from MPL engineering development unit deployment tests, MPL flight unit deployment tests, and Mars 2001 deployment tests showed that a spurious touchdown indication occurs in the Hall Effect touchdown sensor during landing leg deployment (while the lander is connected to the parachute). The software logic accepts this transient signal as a valid touchdown event if it persists for two consecutive readings of the sensor. The tests showed that most of the transient signals at leg deployment are indeed long enough to be accepted as valid events, therefore, it is almost a certainty that at least one of the three would have generated a spurious touchdown indication that the software accepted as valid. The software - intended to ignore touchdown indications prior to the enabling of the touchdown sensi! ! ng logic - was not properly implemented, and the spurious touchdown indication was retained. The touchdown sensing logic is enabled at 40 meters altitude, and the software would have issued a descent engine thrust termination at this time in response to a (spurious) touchdown indication. MOST PROBABLE CAUSE OF LOSS OF MISSION For the largest MP3 index on the Web, go to http://mp3.altavista.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Lifting restrictions
Brian and Group, Attached is a word document that I used at a prior employeer for doing safety design analysis. It was extracted from NIOSH. I don't know if it is still current but I believe it is. Here is the NIOSH web site address: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/homepage.html (See attached file: RWL Lifting Assessment.doc) This document is an original and was internally generated. It is not a hand-me-down that has been through many email trips. Oscar bharlowe%vgscientific@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/30/2000 04:10:51 AM Please respond to bharlowe%vgscientific@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Lifting restrictions Hi group Is anyone aware of a standard UL or EN which details the Weights that are acceptable as one and two person lifts. I have come across a number of industry and company related information but cannot find a standard. Also is there an accepted international warning label to cover this. Regards Brian Harlowe --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org RWL Lifting Assessment.doc Description: Mac Word 3.0
SEMI and SHARP EDGES
In the introduction to IEC60950 it says: It is essential that designers understand the underlying principles of safety requirements in order that they can engineer safe equipment. The following is not an alternative to the detailed requirements of this standard, but is intended to provide designers with an appreciation of the principles on which these requirements are based. . . . Application of this standard is intended to prevent injury or damage due to the following hazards: Electric shock Energy hazards Fire Mechanical and heat hazards Radiation hazards Chemical Hazards . . . It is assumed that service personnel will be reasonably careful in dealing with obvious hazards, but the design should protect against mishap . . . . More important, service personnel should be protected against unexpected hazards. Mechanical and heat hazards . . . and to avoid the presence of sharp edges and points; . . . What we decide, individually, is based on two factors. 1. Does it meet the standard? (Will a CB or third party approve it?) 2. Is it safe anyway? (Would I be willing to let my best friend use it? Can I sleep at night?) Do we want to produce products that are equivalent to what we see in the market place (What can I get away with?), that meet the standard, or are as safe as we can economically make them? I believe that the standards are only mandatory MINIMUM guidelines based on experience (Oops, we shouldn't let that happen again!). The real safety comes by actually looking at our products and taking the necessary design actions to prevent injury or damage regardless of what the standards say. That comes from company standards and policies. These are the companies that design safe products as compared to compliant products. The difficulty comes with what you are struggling to find out. How do we objectively state to an unknown vendor what we are looking to achieve? Standards are the best way, but what about those times where a standard doesn't really exist? (Like in your case.) I guess that is why they pay us the big bucks ; ) Please excuse the preaching but I come from a background where we had more hazards than standards to deal with them. Oscar . -- Forwarded by Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark on 03/21/2000 10:37 AM --- pmerguerian%itl.co...@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/21/2000 03:17:33 AM Please respond to pmerguerian%itl.co...@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: SEMI and SHARP EDGES Dear All, Has anyone heard of a requirement in SEMI-S2 which requires all edges to be rounded to 2.5 inches? I wasn't able to find such a criteria (which was requested from a SEMI Test House from one of our customers) in any SEMI standard. I am recomemnd my customer and their SEMI Test House to meet the UL1439 standard in regards to Sharpness of Edges. Does this seem to be a fair recommendation? Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Product Safety Certification School
I don't know if they still do, but USC, Univ of Washington, and Univ of Cincinnati used to have some courses in system safety and hazard analysis. I know that this isn't product safety per se but it does address the issues of identifying, understanding, and mitigating hazards in engineered systems . Check with the Board of Certified Safety Processionals. I believe that they will be able to give you some leads. http://www.bcsp.com/ The System Safety Society also can provide you some information. They know of some of the courses taught and also conduct seminars and tutorials in Product Safety and other forms of hazard analysis. http://www.system-safety.org/ -- Forwarded by Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark on 03/06/2000 12:15 PM --- dick.grobner%medgraph@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/06/2000 10:30:19 AM Please respond to dick.grobner%medgraph@interlock.lexmark.com To: richn%sdd.hp@interlock.lexmark.com cc: emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: Product Safety Certification School My 2 cents: I agree, it would make my life easier in compliance engineering if the EE's ME's would have a little basic understanding of the concepts of product safety. It seems that they have a general knowledge of EMI/RFI but the product safety side is still missing. -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 5:01 PM To: dan_mitch...@condordc.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Product Safety Certification School Hi Dan: Last year, sometime, reference was made about the possible creation of a University program to teach Product Safety. I was wondering if anybody has heard anything further about this program? I probably was the one who mentioned that engineering schools should include a 1-term course in product safety. Its on my wish-list. I'd like to find even one engineering school that would consider such a course, and then I'd volunteer to help create the course. But, I believe that no engineering school currently has such a course. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Open Letter re ITE Flammability (Source is NAFM)
I don't see this issue as one of whether manufacturers meet the standards. It is more one of whether the standards are adequate. Now the task becomes one of defining adequate. We've all see the hatchet jobs that the press or special interest group will do when they get on a mission. I'm not sure of their ultimate motivation. I do see a potential path of cause and effects. Designers/manufacturers are looking at what their products/equipment will do the environment (not the green one, the ambient one). This issue here is becoming one of what will the environment do to our products/equipment and how, in turn, will they affect the environment. We can't prevent the fire but what do we contribute to the fire if one occurs outside our product/equipment? Building products are coming under increasingly more stringent requirements to be fire proof/retardant. Building contents are now coming under the same types of requirements. Carpets, wall coverings, furnishings, window treatments are being required to be more flame retardant. Our products are the next step. Many consumer products used to be expensive enough that the locations in which they used were controlled and used by more wealthy and generally more educated people. With the decrease in cost, these same products are now being used in places in which they were never exposed to in the past. We are now seeing them placed in children's rooms and used by people with limited literacy (both young and old). Whether we like it or not, I believe that the fire retardancy of consumer products is going to increase. Not because our equipment is any more hazardous, but because groups with an agenda (fair or not, self-interested or not) will make enough public stink that we will either increase voluntarily or be forced by standards to increase the fire retardancy. It becomes a matter of what image we want to present to the public. Manufacturer's that care about their customers or those that are only looking for the dollars. Fair or not, that is what it will ultimately be played up in the press and by the first manufactures that decide to lead the way. Look at this scenario. A house fire starts in a child's room by a scented votive candle on the desk. The consumer product with an HB cover adds fuel to the flame and smoke. A child is either seriously injured or dies. The attorney for the family waves a dollar bill in front of the jury and says: If the manufacturer had spent only one dollar, this tragedy might have been prevented. One dollar! But instead of spending this one dollar to save a life, they decided to give it to a corporate officer as a bonus for saving money. Would you want to be the manufacturer's representative on that case? Again, I'm not saying that this is fair or reasonable. I'm just saying that I see it coming. Look at the tobacco and gun industries. amichael%connix@interlock.lexmark.com on 01/20/2000 04:01:27 PM Please respond to amichael%connix@interlock.lexmark.com To: kandrews%tracewell@interlock.lexmark.com cc: chris.colgan%tagmclarenaudio@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com (bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: Open Letter re ITE Flammability (Source is NAFM) To Kurt: I believe it is possible to utilized an internal enclosure to protect against fire (and other hazards) and then, the outer case (the subject of the NAFM letter) does not need to meet the V-1 requirement. I know, for a fact, that this technique was utilized in other product lines (phones video games, for instance) so that the outer case did not serve as the enclosure and could be made of less expensive polymers. And, to Chris: It has long been recognized on this side of the Atlantic, that TVs and other home electronics devices benefit from the use of flame-resistant enclosures (you can interpret that as: flame-resistant enclosures reduce the fire-risks associated with such products). That is why UL 6500 varies from 60065 and why flame-resistance of one of the cornerstones of the myriad of ANSI/UL standards. It's good to learn that 60065 is adding finally adding flammability requirements for enclosures. Regards, Art Michael Int'l Product Safety News A.E. Michael, Editor 166 Congdon St. East P.O. Box 1561 Middletown CT 06457 U.S.A. Phone : (860) 344-1651 Fax: (860) 346-9066 Email : i...@connix.com Website: http://www.safetylink.com ISSN : 1040-7529 -- On Thu, 20 Jan 2000, Andrews, Kurt wrote: According to 4.4.4 of both UL 1950 and EN 60950 monitors should be at least V-1. 4.4.4 says that fire enclosures of less than 18 kg (about 40 lb.) have to be at least V-1. For fire enclosures over 18 kg it needs to be 5V. So if a monitor has a UL mark it should be at least V-1. A monitor case should definitely be a fire enclosure as 4.4.5.1 says the following items need a fire enclosure and I'm sure that all
RE: Y3K
I saw a CPS to Hz conversion chart in a military (AF) test report back in the 70s. The 'X' axis (CPS) was decimal and the 'Y' axis (Hz) was Log. It provided an interesting conversion curve. It even had a formula to do the conversion long hand. We need more of this type of aids today =; james_allan%milgo@interlock.lexmark.com on 01/07/2000 09:43:34 AM Please respond to james_allan%milgo@interlock.lexmark.com To: rpickard%hypercom@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: RE: Y3K Seems like I remember a trade magazine editorial many years ago when Hertz was first being used in the US by NASA. This editor was of the opinion that Steinmetz was the first practical user of alternating current systems and thus deserved the honor more than Hertz. Since Steinmetzes was a bit of a mouthful he proposed using only his initials as an abbreviation. Steinmetz was named Charles P. which abbreviated to CPS. Jim Allan Senior Compliance Engineer Milgo Solutions Inc. E-mail james_al...@milgo.com - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Notified Bodies
It is allowed but what about the integrity issue? Do you intend on telling the agency from which you are seeking the opinion of your approach? How would you feel about your customers doing the same thing with your opinion? woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com on 12/16/99 02:42:26 PM Please respond to woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: Oscar Overton/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Notified Bodies Is it allowed to obtain an official opinion from a Notified Body on one particular issue and obtain an official opinion from a second Notified Body on a different issue where the issues are not related? Richard Woods - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Ignition Temperature of Cotton Cheesecloth
Does anyone know, or have a reference that might tell, the ignition temperature of cotton cheesecloth. UL 1950, Annex B, Clause B.7.3 references the use of this. I know that the ignition temperature of paper, according to Ray Bradbury is 451 (superscript: o)F OO - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Any Standards for an Automobile Cigarette Lighter Connector?
Group, I have a design engineer with a power supply which is to be powered from 13.8 Vdc automobile source. Does anyone know of any IEC or other standards for the power plug that goes into the cigarette lighter / power plug of a vehicle. Many Thanks. Oscar - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
