Re: [Emc-users] Just a Thought

[Jon Elson]

Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 August 2007, Jon Elson wrote:
> 
>>ben lipkowitz wrote:
>>
>We tried to make a map where the users could place a pin at
>their location, I don't know what has happened to it.

what ever has happened to the map ( google map if I remember right )
that even had pic's of users equipment ?
>>>
>>>the map is here:
>>>http://www.frappr.com/emc2
>>
>>Oh, great!  Another example of MicroSoft-centric web thinking.
>>So, we have a Linux-based project, but you can't view the map
>>without extensive gyrations to install MicroSoft spoofing
>>software!  I have to hang upside down by my toes to get Flash
>>Player 9 to run.  (I can't find a version of flash player 8
>>anywhere.)
>>
>>Nope, can't get it to run under Firefox either, which has flash
>>player 9 installed (but may not be working right).
>>
>>Jon
> 
> 
> Its working here Jon, on an uptodate FC6 box, FF-2.0.0.6.  Some of the lower 
> scrolling images are contaminated though.
Well, I have a very outdated kernel, and outdated software on 
top of it.  And, it is a big mess to change, as I have a lot of 
special sofware like FlightGear and VMware on this system.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Controller to Amp Cable

[Jon Elson]

Kirk Wallace wrote:
> Typically, how long can the cable be between the UniversalPWM controller
> and servo amps? The amps have differential PWM and direction inputs. I
> assume they are RS-422 compatible? (Just keep below 10 mA through 1
> kOhms?)
My servo amps have opto-coupled inputs.  Depending on what you 
are using, you may need to worry about fluctuations in the 
ground when the amps are sending current pulses to the motor.
The actual length of the cable may not be a major issue, rather 
the coupling of external EMI fields.  Cables over ten foot or so 
would do well to be terminated with the cable's characteristic 
impedance at the receiving end.

Jon

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[Emc-users] Encoder Transmitter (was Just a Thought)

[Javid Butler]

Kirk-

Most of what I have is based around a single data link so
nothing in stock will do what you need here.

However, my PCB house will do a single sided panel with as many copies of an 
image as will fit for about $60. That would be about 20 2"x2" boards. I just 
shear them apart.

Do you have a layout done?

Thanks,
Javid



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[Emc-users] EMC2 and Macro capability

[Jeff Pollard]

Hi,
  In the DONE section of the following wiki EMC page:

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=browse&id=EmcFeatures&revision=25

 It suggests that macro capabilites have been added to EMC (item 3 in the 
done section), however I can't find any mention of macros in the 
documentation or by doing a google search.


 Does anyone know the status of macro capabilites in EMC2?

Thanks,

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] Stepper dirves drom bsjd.com

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 16 August 2007, Jason Cox wrote:
>On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 00:09 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Wednesday 15 August 2007, Jason Cox wrote:
>> >hi all,
>> >just wondering if anyone has used a Q2HB44MA stepper drive
>> >( http://www.bsjd.com/_en/products_show.asp?Productid=424 ) as I have
>> >just acquired some for my new mill.
>> >which is best a step/dir signal or CW/CCW signaling for steppers?
>> >
>> >Jason Cox
>>
>> Interesting Jason.  That site doesn't seem to have a price list, so I'm
>> wondering what the msrp of that one, and its 80 volt, 6 amp counterpart
>>  might be by the
>> time ups hands me a box of them here in the states?
>
>First appearance is they look solid. I got mine from an old banner sign
>printer that go thrown out (good stuff should never go to waist).
>Jason
>
Thanks.  To answer the original question, steppers are nearly always driven by 
step/dir signals.  There are bipolar analogue setups about, but from my 
reading, quite a bit harder to tune.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] Stepper dirves drom bsjd.com

[Jason Cox]

On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 00:09 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 August 2007, Jason Cox wrote:
> >hi all,
> > just wondering if anyone has used a Q2HB44MA stepper drive
> >( http://www.bsjd.com/_en/products_show.asp?Productid=424 ) as I have
> >just acquired some for my new mill.
> >which is best a step/dir signal or CW/CCW signaling for steppers?
> >
> >Jason Cox
> >
> Interesting Jason.  That site doesn't seem to have a price list, so I'm 
> wondering what the msrp of that one, and its 80 volt, 6 amp counterpart 
>  might be by the 
> time 
> ups hands me a box of them here in the states?
> 
First appearance is they look solid. I got mine from an old banner sign
printer that go thrown out (good stuff should never go to waist).
Jason


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Re: [Emc-users] Stepper dirves drom bsjd.com

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 August 2007, Jason Cox wrote:
>hi all,
>   just wondering if anyone has used a Q2HB44MA stepper drive
>( http://www.bsjd.com/_en/products_show.asp?Productid=424 ) as I have
>just acquired some for my new mill.
>which is best a step/dir signal or CW/CCW signaling for steppers?
>
>Jason Cox
>
Interesting Jason.  That site doesn't seem to have a price list, so I'm 
wondering what the msrp of that one, and its 80 volt, 6 amp counterpart 
 might be by the time 
ups hands me a box of them here in the states?

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
There appears to be irrefutable evidence that the mere fact of overcrowding
induces violence.
-- Harvey Wheeler

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[Emc-users] Stepper dirves drom bsjd.com

[Jason Cox]

hi all,
just wondering if anyone has used a Q2HB44MA stepper drive
( http://www.bsjd.com/_en/products_show.asp?Productid=424 ) as I have
just acquired some for my new mill.
which is best a step/dir signal or CW/CCW signaling for steppers?

Jason Cox


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Re: [Emc-users] MAX_DIO

[Kirk Wallace]

On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 21:59 -0500, Chris Radek wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 07:57:26PM -0700, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> > I take it that EMCMOT_MAX_DIO is compiled into EMC (emcmotcfg.h). So if
> > I need more than four m64pX's I would need to compile my own EMC? I
> > suppose being able to compile my own EMC would be a good thing, but I'm
> > trying to put it off for later. Thank you.
> 
> Yes, unfortunately.  You can build from cvs, or you could build a deb
> for yourself with just this change very easily (the debian way).
> 
> Maybe we should increase it for 2.2.

I have compiled the linux kernel and small c files before, but I think
make does all the real work. I am guessing a deb file is like a make
file? Ideally, I would like to not use m64 at all, so I am trying to
decide whether to use m64 to patch something together and have it work
now or sit down and figure out how to make a real fix. Thanks Chris.

Kirk Wallace


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Re: [Emc-users] MAX_DIO

[Chris Radek]

On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 07:57:26PM -0700, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> I take it that EMCMOT_MAX_DIO is compiled into EMC (emcmotcfg.h). So if
> I need more than four m64pX's I would need to compile my own EMC? I
> suppose being able to compile my own EMC would be a good thing, but I'm
> trying to put it off for later. Thank you.

Yes, unfortunately.  You can build from cvs, or you could build a deb
for yourself with just this change very easily (the debian way).

Maybe we should increase it for 2.2.

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[Emc-users] MAX_DIO

[Kirk Wallace]

I take it that EMCMOT_MAX_DIO is compiled into EMC (emcmotcfg.h). So if
I need more than four m64pX's I would need to compile my own EMC? I
suppose being able to compile my own EMC would be a good thing, but I'm
trying to put it off for later. Thank you.

Kirk Wallace


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Re: [Emc-users] Just a Thought

[Jason Cox]

This could also be because Adobe havent released a 64bit version and the
32bit dosn't play nicely with any 64bit browsers. It has killed some
things for me, but thats there loss
Jason

On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 21:56 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 August 2007, Jon Elson wrote:
> >ben lipkowitz wrote:
> We tried to make a map where the users could place a pin at
> their location, I don't know what has happened to it.
> >>>
> >>>what ever has happened to the map ( google map if I remember right )
> >>>that even had pic's of users equipment ?
> >>
> >> the map is here:
> >> http://www.frappr.com/emc2
> >
> >Oh, great!  Another example of MicroSoft-centric web thinking.
> >So, we have a Linux-based project, but you can't view the map
> >without extensive gyrations to install MicroSoft spoofing
> >software!  I have to hang upside down by my toes to get Flash
> >Player 9 to run.  (I can't find a version of flash player 8
> >anywhere.)
> >
> >Nope, can't get it to run under Firefox either, which has flash
> >player 9 installed (but may not be working right).
> >
> >Jon
> 
> Its working here Jon, on an uptodate FC6 box, FF-2.0.0.6.  Some of the lower 
> scrolling images are contaminated though.
> 
> As to exactly what incantation I used to make it work, it was months back up 
> the log & I've NDI what I did after all this time.  About all I can say for 
> sure is that my flash came from adobe, it is not a fedora rpm.
> 


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Re: [Emc-users] Just a Thought

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 August 2007, Jon Elson wrote:
>ben lipkowitz wrote:
We tried to make a map where the users could place a pin at
their location, I don't know what has happened to it.
>>>
>>>what ever has happened to the map ( google map if I remember right )
>>>that even had pic's of users equipment ?
>>
>> the map is here:
>> http://www.frappr.com/emc2
>
>Oh, great!  Another example of MicroSoft-centric web thinking.
>So, we have a Linux-based project, but you can't view the map
>without extensive gyrations to install MicroSoft spoofing
>software!  I have to hang upside down by my toes to get Flash
>Player 9 to run.  (I can't find a version of flash player 8
>anywhere.)
>
>Nope, can't get it to run under Firefox either, which has flash
>player 9 installed (but may not be working right).
>
>Jon

Its working here Jon, on an uptodate FC6 box, FF-2.0.0.6.  Some of the lower 
scrolling images are contaminated though.

As to exactly what incantation I used to make it work, it was months back up 
the log & I've NDI what I did after all this time.  About all I can say for 
sure is that my flash came from adobe, it is not a fedora rpm.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Suddenly, Professor Liebowitz realizes he has come to the seminar
without his duck ...

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Re: [Emc-users] Real amp-enable?

[Jeff Epler]

You'd connect the commanded position to change-detect, and the output
would be the "full current enable" that you are requesting.  You could
stretch its output with the "oneshot" component so that the amplifier
current limit doesn't go down instantly when there is a programmed pause
or the like.

you're right that this gives no "warning" when a motion is about to take
place.  But getting that warning is a lot like predicting the future: emc
was not designed to do it.

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] Real amp-enable?

[Sven Mueller]

Sam Sokolik schrieb:
> My only question would be - how are the stepper drives shut off?  Is the 
> power removed from them?

The stepper driver itself is not shut down. Only the reference voltage
(which stears the output current) is lowered to approx. 10% of the
original reference voltage.

> When they turn back on - will they be at the right phase sequence as
> when they where shut off?   You could be as much as 4 full
> steps off if I am thinking correctly.

Nope, not with the controller board we use. It just lowers the output
current a lot. Even with amp-enable-out not connected to the controller
board, you could still make the steppers turn (though only very slowly).

regards,
Sven

> - Original Message - 
> From: "Sven Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:31 PM
> Subject: [Emc-users] Real amp-enable?
> 
> 
>> Hi.
>>
>> Due to the way our machine drives the axes, we would like to turn off
>> the amplpifiers when no axis moves (even when the spindle is on), since
>> the steppers get really hot if they don't move but are driven at full
>> current.
>>
>> However, axis.*.amp-enable-out goes true as soon as the machine is
>> enabled in EMC. Is there any pin for the axes which only gets enabled
>> shortly before the respective axis starts moving and gets disabled again
>> when it stopped moving? Or any other way we could emulate that behaviour
>> with the latest released emc version?
>>
>> In my opinion, the current behaviour could easily be emulated if
>> axis.*.amp-enable-out would go true only under the above condition if a
>> pin iocontrol.emc-machine-on would be added.
>>
>> Alternatively (so as not to break old installs), adding a pin
>> axis.*.enable-movement (possibly under a different name) would surely
>> work just as well.
>>
>> On a different topic:
>>
>> Also, our controller supports a "boost" option. This increases the
>> current on the steppers to gain some torque at high speeds and/or high
>> accelleration. We don't really need it, since our use of the machine
>> doesn't care to much about speed, but support for this would really be
>> nice in the future (we plan on building a new machine from scratch once
>> we got the current one working nicely with EMC), but using boost needs
>> some thinking. For example it can't be used for too long, since it might
>> heat the steppers up too much, so its usage would need to be tracked in
>> the motion planner I think, since it needs to slow down
>> movement/accelleration if the boost had been used too much recently.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sven
>>
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Real amp-enable?

[Sven Mueller]

Jeff Epler schrieb:
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 10:31:49PM +0200, Sven Mueller wrote:
>>
>> Due to the way our machine drives the axes, we would like to turn off
>> the amplpifiers when no axis moves (even when the spindle is on), since
>> the steppers get really hot if they don't move but are driven at full
>> current.
> [...]
> 
> The following component can be added to an emc 2.1 system with
> "sudo comp --install change_detect.comp", and has an output which is
> TRUE when the input is changing.
> 
> component change_detect;
> pin in float in;
> pin out bit out "TRUE if \\fBin\\fR changed since the last run; FALSE 
> otherwise";
> pin out bit out_not "FALSE if \\fBin\\fR changed since the last run; TRUE 
> otherwise";
> option data float;
> function _;
> ;;
> MODULE_LICENSE("GPL");
> FUNCTION(_) {
> float temp = in;
> if(data != temp) { out = 1; out_not = 0; }
> else { out = 0; out_not = 1; }
> data = temp;
>  }
> 
> its behavior when the input is a square wave or a sine wave:
> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/change-detect-1.png
> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/change-detect-2.png

Hmm, that certainly is an interesting component. However, I see a timing
issue here:
change_detect goes true if the input changed compared to the last input.
Let's say that this allows me to configure hal so that I have a pin go
true as soon as the direction pin or the step (clock) pin changes. How
does that help me to enable the amplifiers (very shortly) before any
axis starts to move and only disable it again shortly after it stopped
moving? I fail to see the necessary logic/connections needed to achive
that. Especially since the change_detect ping goes false again as soon
as the input doesn't change anymore. Which input pin/signal do you
suggest to feed into change_detect?

TIA and best regards,
Sven

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Re: [Emc-users] Real amp-enable?

[Sam Sokolik]

My only question would be - how are the stepper drives shut off?  Is the 
power removed from them?  When they turn back on - will they be at the right 
phase sequence as when they where shut off?   You could be as much as 4 full 
steps off if I am thinking correctly.

sam
- Original Message - 
From: "Sven Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: [Emc-users] Real amp-enable?


> Hi.
>
> Due to the way our machine drives the axes, we would like to turn off
> the amplpifiers when no axis moves (even when the spindle is on), since
> the steppers get really hot if they don't move but are driven at full
> current.
>
> However, axis.*.amp-enable-out goes true as soon as the machine is
> enabled in EMC. Is there any pin for the axes which only gets enabled
> shortly before the respective axis starts moving and gets disabled again
> when it stopped moving? Or any other way we could emulate that behaviour
> with the latest released emc version?
>
> In my opinion, the current behaviour could easily be emulated if
> axis.*.amp-enable-out would go true only under the above condition if a
> pin iocontrol.emc-machine-on would be added.
>
> Alternatively (so as not to break old installs), adding a pin
> axis.*.enable-movement (possibly under a different name) would surely
> work just as well.
>
> On a different topic:
>
> Also, our controller supports a "boost" option. This increases the
> current on the steppers to gain some torque at high speeds and/or high
> accelleration. We don't really need it, since our use of the machine
> doesn't care to much about speed, but support for this would really be
> nice in the future (we plan on building a new machine from scratch once
> we got the current one working nicely with EMC), but using boost needs
> some thinking. For example it can't be used for too long, since it might
> heat the steppers up too much, so its usage would need to be tracked in
> the motion planner I think, since it needs to slow down
> movement/accelleration if the boost had been used too much recently.
>
> Regards,
> Sven
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Real amp-enable?

[Jeff Epler]

On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 10:31:49PM +0200, Sven Mueller wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Due to the way our machine drives the axes, we would like to turn off
> the amplpifiers when no axis moves (even when the spindle is on), since
> the steppers get really hot if they don't move but are driven at full
> current.
[...]

The following component can be added to an emc 2.1 system with
"sudo comp --install change_detect.comp", and has an output which is
TRUE when the input is changing.

component change_detect;
pin in float in;
pin out bit out "TRUE if \\fBin\\fR changed since the last run; FALSE 
otherwise";
pin out bit out_not "FALSE if \\fBin\\fR changed since the last run; TRUE 
otherwise";
option data float;
function _;
;;
MODULE_LICENSE("GPL");
FUNCTION(_) {
float temp = in;
if(data != temp) { out = 1; out_not = 0; }
else { out = 0; out_not = 1; }
data = temp;
 }

its behavior when the input is a square wave or a sine wave:
http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/change-detect-1.png
http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/change-detect-2.png

Jeff

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[Emc-users] Real amp-enable?

[Sven Mueller]

Hi.

Due to the way our machine drives the axes, we would like to turn off
the amplpifiers when no axis moves (even when the spindle is on), since
the steppers get really hot if they don't move but are driven at full
current.

However, axis.*.amp-enable-out goes true as soon as the machine is
enabled in EMC. Is there any pin for the axes which only gets enabled
shortly before the respective axis starts moving and gets disabled again
when it stopped moving? Or any other way we could emulate that behaviour
with the latest released emc version?

In my opinion, the current behaviour could easily be emulated if
axis.*.amp-enable-out would go true only under the above condition if a
pin iocontrol.emc-machine-on would be added.

Alternatively (so as not to break old installs), adding a pin
axis.*.enable-movement (possibly under a different name) would surely
work just as well.

On a different topic:

Also, our controller supports a "boost" option. This increases the
current on the steppers to gain some torque at high speeds and/or high
accelleration. We don't really need it, since our use of the machine
doesn't care to much about speed, but support for this would really be
nice in the future (we plan on building a new machine from scratch once
we got the current one working nicely with EMC), but using boost needs
some thinking. For example it can't be used for too long, since it might
heat the steppers up too much, so its usage would need to be tracked in
the motion planner I think, since it needs to slow down
movement/accelleration if the boost had been used too much recently.

Regards,
Sven


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Re: [Emc-users] Single Step'n

[alex . joni]

Quoting Kirk Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> For the first run of a part, I recall reducing the feed rate and then
> single stepping through the program. I think there was a single step
> button you could activate before you hit the cycle start, so that the
> program would single step right from the first line. Whereas it seems
> that EMC will only single step after you start the program and several
> lines may have been executed. Does anyone have a favorite method to
> validate programs for the first run?
>

It depends on the GUI you are using, but it's fairly similar.

In TkEMC there's a button called 'validate', which will run through  
the program and check it against possible problems.
In AXIS the same thing happens automatically while loading, and  
building the preview.

To step though a program, you simply hit the "Step" button (both in  
TkEMC and in AXIS, might be different in Mini or Xemc, but I doubt  
that).

btw, when I'm unsure of a program, I use touch-off in AXIS to set the  
Z really high (to clear the workpiece), and let it air-cut and watch  
the spindle and preview. (usually I also crank the feed override to  
something like 2-300% while doing that, because I get easily bored if  
it's running slow :).

Hope this helps,
Regards,
Alex


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Re: [Emc-users] EMC Features

[John Kasunich]

Chris Radek wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 01:08:26PM -0400, John Kasunich wrote:
>> G33 threading passes are one way to sync "tool" motion with the spindle,
>> but maybe not what you want, since each G33 pass waits for an index 
>> pulse - in a winding application you will still be winding fiber during
>> that wait.
> 
> Not quite true - adjacent G33 moves maintain synchronization while
> direction of motion changes.  If the wire is .020, it seems like you
> could get the required motion simply with G33 Z2 P.020, G33 Z0 P.020,
> etc etc.
> 

Cool, I didn't know that.

Does G33 stay in sync even if you change the P value?  I'm pretty sure
some filament winding applications want to vary the pitch.  Low pitch
windings are strong against hoop stress, but much higher pitches are
used for axial and bending stress.  I think I've seen fiber wound
pressure tanks with fibers at 45 degrees to the centerline.

Another area where winding differs from threading is that you do NOT
want subsequent passes to repeat - you want them to be interleaved like
a multi-start thread with LOTS of starts.  I bet you could do that by
making the length of each pass a non-integral multiple of the pitch:

G0  Z0
(pause to thread fiber)
S20 M3 (winding is a slow process)
G33 Z20.01 P0.2  (20.01" divided by 0.2" per rev = 100.05 revs)
G33 Z0 P0.2  (anther 100.05 revs, now at 200.1 revs)
G33 Z20.01 P0.2  (this pass is 1/10 of a rev offset from the first)
G33 Z0 P0.2
(repeat for 8 more passes)
...
(you now have one layer of 10 fibers at 0.2" pitch, 0.020 spacing)
G33 Z20.01 P2  (20.01" divided by 2" per rev = 10.005 revs)
G33 Z0 P2  (anther 10.005 revs, now at 20.01 revs)
G33 Z20.01 P2  (this pass is 1/100 of a rev offset from the first)
G33 Z0 P2
(repeat for 98 more passes)
...
(you now have a second layer of 100 fibers at 2" pitch and 0.020 spacing)

Seems like this just begs for O-word loops and parameters.

Regards,

John Kasunich





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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with steppers

[Jeff Epler]

On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 11:40:35AM -0500, RogerN wrote:
> Instead of PID speeding up the stepper, could it be connected to feed 
> rate override and slow the feed until the stepper caught up?

emc2 offers "feedhold" and "adaptive-feed" pins in HAL (the latter is
activated by M52, not on by default).  It's possible that a new
component (or ladder logic or a combination of existing components in
HAL) could use position error to manipulate feedhold or adaptive-feed
and allow a recovery shortly after a stepper stall.

  _
Commanded Position ---| New Component |--- Stepper velocity command
  | (magic goes   |
Feedback Position  ---| here) |--- adaptive feed rate
  ~
___
adaptive feed rate 1 ---| Another |
adaptive feed rate 2 ---| piece   |
 ...| of the  |--- overall adaptive feed rate
adaptive feed rate n ---| puzzle  |
~~~
There are a lot of details to work out, it's more a matter for research
and experimentation than "yes, simply add a few lines to your HAL file".

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] Pluto (is not a planet)

[Jeff Epler]

The change in emc2.2 will be to allow any number of counts per index, so
long as the maximum number of counts per servo cycle is within the
permitted range.  I made this change for sam and his 10160-count
encoder, but I am not sure he's actually tested it with the updated
version.

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] Need help getting my machine to work.

[Sven Mueller]

John Kasunich schrieb:
> Sven Mueller wrote:
> Found the problem:
> 
> The following is in your "pinout" file:
> 
>  >net Xenable axis.0.amp-enable-out => or2.0.in0
>  >net Yenable axis.1.amp-enable-out => or2.0.in1
>  >net XYenable or2.0.out => or2.1.in0
>  >net Zenable axis.2.amp-enable-out => or2.1.in1
>  >net AMPenable or2.1.out => parport.0.pin-17-out
> 
> You are creating your own enable signals for each axis.  However, there 
> are already enable signals, created by the following in core_stepper.hal:
> 

Thanks, your post helped a lot. It seems we had some other small issues
in the file but now it seems to work nicely.

regards,
Sven

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Re: [Emc-users] 5i20 Counter

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007, Kirk Wallace wrote:

> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:33:44 -0700
> From: Kirk Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: [Emc-users] 5i20 Counter
> 
> Does anyone know off hand how fast the Mesa 5i20 encoder counters are?
>
> Kirk Wallace
>

With filtering on and in quadrature mode, A, and B (and I) inputs are limited 
to ~1 MHz (~.5 uSec time constant filter) = ~4 Million counts per second.

With filters off and in quadrature mode, the inputs are still filtered but 
limited to  ~5 MHz (~100 nSec time constant filter), = ~20 million counts per 
second.


>
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>

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.


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Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language

[Sven Mueller]

Alex Joni schrieb:
>> Ask user to define minimum and maximum X, Y and Z positions by moving
>> the tooltip to the relevant positions manually or by entering the values
>> numerically. Then use a procedural (possibly recursive) approach to scan
>> the work pieces surface with a touch probe.
> 
> Not the most advanced waz to do this, but it does a good job.
> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/nc_files/gridprobe.ngc?rev=1.5;content-type=text%2Fplain

The point is:

This is neither the most efficient nor the easiest to read way to achive
this. What would really be nice would be a way to tell emc:

move along X axis to 10(user units), stopping if probe is activated
report position back

Your example above leaves a few things to desire if you want to present
the result to people:
1) a more readable program, with symbolic variable names for starters
2) a more flexible way for the user to specify the borders
3) a way to - for example - use several different sized probes to first
   get a quick rough image of what the piece looks like to then do the
   fine checks with smaller movements and this way hopefully also
   quicker and doing it in a single pass. Just like when you do a
   roughing and a finishing pass when milling.

Also, as I mentioned in my previous mail, it's not clear how you need to
"wire" the probe in hal: which input triggers the G38.2 to stop and
print the position? I couldn't find that mentioned in the docs.

Finally: I'm not necessarily talking about scripting in the place where
currently Gcode is executed. Well documented script (perl, lua, ruby,
python) language bindings to the movement and IO parts of emc2 would
work just as well for me.

Actually, what I would like to see is some relatively optimized version
of surface scanning implemented with a GUI (perhaps in tkEMC or one of
the other GUIs?). Since the existing GUIs already allow manual
movements, I would think that all I would like to see (enter a position
directly or by doing a manual movement, multiple scan passes with
differently sized probe tips,...) should be possible using the same
techniques currently used in the GUIs. Though I'm relatively good at C
programming as well as Perl programming, I don't know how to build an
interface between the two or how to use tcl.

regards,
Sven

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[Emc-users] Controller to Amp Cable

[Kirk Wallace]

Typically, how long can the cable be between the UniversalPWM controller
and servo amps? The amps have differential PWM and direction inputs. I
assume they are RS-422 compatible? (Just keep below 10 mA through 1
kOhms?)


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Re: [Emc-users] 5i20 Counter

[Stephen Wille Padnos]

The rating for the SoftDMC configuration is "~3 MHz if the filter is 
enabled", and faster if the filter is disabled.
SoftDMC is not the config used with EMC2, but I think the encoder 
counter is the same, so I'd think it could count at 3 MHz or better, 
depending on noise filtering.

- Steve

Kirk Wallace wrote:

>Does anyone know off hand how fast the Mesa 5i20 encoder counters are?
>
>Kirk Wallace
>


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Re: [Emc-users] EMC Features

[Chris Radek]

On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 01:08:26PM -0400, John Kasunich wrote:
> 
> G33 threading passes are one way to sync "tool" motion with the spindle,
> but maybe not what you want, since each G33 pass waits for an index 
> pulse - in a winding application you will still be winding fiber during
> that wait.

Not quite true - adjacent G33 moves maintain synchronization while
direction of motion changes.  If the wire is .020, it seems like you
could get the required motion simply with G33 Z2 P.020, G33 Z0 P.020,
etc etc.


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[Emc-users] 5i20 Counter

[Kirk Wallace]

Does anyone know off hand how fast the Mesa 5i20 encoder counters are?

Kirk Wallace


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Re: [Emc-users] Pluto (is not a planet)

[Sam Sokolik]

'I think'  that jepler has already increased that - I have 2540 line 
encoders/w index which are 10160 count that I have not tested yet but I 
think will work now..  I actually think he went about the encoder counting 
different so it isn't an issue.

I am sure jepler will chime in here.  :)
sam


- Original Message - 
From: "Kirk Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: [Emc-users] Pluto (is not a planet)


> How hard is the 8191 count per index limit on the Pluto controller? In
> other words, what are the chances of the count per index being
> increased?
>
> Kirk Wallace
>
>
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[Emc-users] Pluto (is not a planet)

[Kirk Wallace]

How hard is the 8191 count per index limit on the Pluto controller? In
other words, what are the chances of the count per index being
increased?

Kirk Wallace


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Re: [Emc-users] EMC Features

[John Kasunich]

Ryan Hulsker wrote:
> Some of the recent discussion on "wish lists" and silent users etc. has
> prompted me to chime in here.  I have been a lurker on this list for a
> long time, have played with EMC several times, and have dreamt of
> building a CNC machine (mill, drill, filament winder, or foam cutter,
> depending on which project I am consumed with at the time) for a long
> time.
> 
> With the help of some like minded friends I have finally started
> building building a CNC Foam cutting machine (hot wire), and am
> interested in running it with EMC.  It is almost done, and I have been
> using EMC to tune the axises etc.  I have seen comments on these
> machines in the past on this list and the consensus seemed to be that
> EMC was not able to work with them.  I am wondering if this has changed
> with EMC2/Axis.  From browsing the .ini file, it looks like there are
> provisions for axis a,b,c, (I think, working from memory here) which are
> described in the comments as running parallel to x,y,z, is that what
> these are for?

Actually u, v, and w are the axes that are parallel to x, y, and z. 
They were recently added to EMC2 specifically for hot-wire foam cutters
and wire EDM machines.  They will be available in the version 2.2 
release, or if you need them sooner you can get the current CVS version.

> The other thing I am interested in building that I have not seen alot of
> discussion on is a filament winding machine.  Again, I have looked at
> using EMC for this in the past, and came to the conclusion that it was
> not possible.  But with the addition of the lathe/threading code, it
> seems that a filament winder should certainly be possible.  I think the
> hardest part of this would be generating g-code for proper placement of
> the filaments/tows, but EMC2 should be capable of laying them down where
> you want while being indexed to the mandrel rotation once you have the
> g-code.  Does anyone know of a g-code generator that would generate code
> for a filament winder that is free/open-source?
> 
> Ryan Hulsker

Can you explain a little more about what is involved with filament winding?

G33 threading passes are one way to sync "tool" motion with the spindle,
but maybe not what you want, since each G33 pass waits for an index 
pulse - in a winding application you will still be winding fiber during
that wait.

Also coming in version 2.2 is feed-per-revolution mode, which might be
an alternative to G33.  It doesn't wait at the start of each pass, which
is good.  However, it is synced to spindle speed, not spindle position,
so it might get slightly out of position at the end of a long pass.

Another off-the-wall possibility would be to treat the rotating part as
a rotary axis instead of a spindle.  Then you could write g-code using X
and A coordinates.  However, if you are going to make thousands of 
revolutions on one part, your A axis will have a very long travel range.
Not sure what the implications of that might be.

Regards,

John Kasunich

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[Emc-users] EMC Features

[Ryan Hulsker]

Some of the recent discussion on "wish lists" and silent users etc. has
prompted me to chime in here.  I have been a lurker on this list for a
long time, have played with EMC several times, and have dreamt of
building a CNC machine (mill, drill, filament winder, or foam cutter,
depending on which project I am consumed with at the time) for a long
time.

With the help of some like minded friends I have finally started
building building a CNC Foam cutting machine (hot wire), and am
interested in running it with EMC.  It is almost done, and I have been
using EMC to tune the axises etc.  I have seen comments on these
machines in the past on this list and the consensus seemed to be that
EMC was not able to work with them.  I am wondering if this has changed
with EMC2/Axis.  From browsing the .ini file, it looks like there are
provisions for axis a,b,c, (I think, working from memory here) which are
described in the comments as running parallel to x,y,z, is that what
these are for?

The other thing I am interested in building that I have not seen alot of
discussion on is a filament winding machine.  Again, I have looked at
using EMC for this in the past, and came to the conclusion that it was
not possible.  But with the addition of the lathe/threading code, it
seems that a filament winder should certainly be possible.  I think the
hardest part of this would be generating g-code for proper placement of
the filaments/tows, but EMC2 should be capable of laying them down where
you want while being indexed to the mandrel rotation once you have the
g-code.  Does anyone know of a g-code generator that would generate code
for a filament winder that is free/open-source?

Ryan Hulsker



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[Emc-users] Single Step'n

[Kirk Wallace]

I have a confession to make. The only real CNC experience I have had was
a three month stint a couple of years ago, mostly with a Fadal. (I
really liked that machine, except for the tool changer randomly getting
chips under the tool holder.) 

For the first run of a part, I recall reducing the feed rate and then
single stepping through the program. I think there was a single step
button you could activate before you hit the cycle start, so that the
program would single step right from the first line. Whereas it seems
that EMC will only single step after you start the program and several
lines may have been executed. Does anyone have a favorite method to
validate programs for the first run?

Kirk Wallace


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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with steppers

[RogerN]

- Original Message - 
From: "John Kasunich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 

Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with steppers



> PID's response to feedback falling behind command is to drive
> the motor harder.  With a stepper, that means step faster, which will
> just result in less motor torque and more lost steps.
>

Instead of PID speeding up the stepper, could it be connected to feed 
rate override and slow the feed until the stepper caught up?  For 
example: a commanded feed of 10ipm, a step is missed, feedrate is 
reduced to 9ipm, proportional error adds 0.1 ipm, output is 9.1 ipm with 
trajectory feedrate at 9ipm, stepper will catch up.  Perhaps it could be 
set up so if you missed enough steps for your feed rate override to be 
less than 50% you would get a following error.  This could another can 
of worms with acel/decel, etc.  I think I would prefer to just stop with 
a following error and be able to restart.  Perhaps the feed was set too 
high, maybe the end mill is dull, or perhaps the acel/decel rates are 
too high.  Either way, I would prefer to have a fault than ruin my 
part/vise/clamps/table/cutter/etc.

Roger Neal


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Re: [Emc-users] Just a Thought (a reply to Javid)

[Kirk Wallace]

On Tue, 2007-08-14 at 20:45 -0500, Javid Butler wrote:
> > I have been meaning to ask you about who fabricates your pcb's. I need
> > to have a few RS-422 transmitter and receiver boards made.
> 
> Kirk-
> 
> Can you elaborate on what you need?
...snip
> Anyway, please tell us more about what you need and I'll see if there's 
> anything that fits.
> 
> Thanks,
> Javid

Thank you for the offer. I want to use RS-422 between my encoders and
controller encoder inputs. A rough description of the receiver board is:
~2 inch square with mounting holes on each corner. Opposite edges would
have .2 inch screw binding terminals with one side having +12 V, Gnd, A
out, B out, I out. The other having 12 V out, Gnd, A+ in, A- in, B+ in,
B- in, I+ in, I - in. Centrally mounted would be a DS26C32, TO-92 5 V
regulator and capacitor(s). That's it. I would like to make them as
generic as possible so that I could trow them in where needed. A major
concern is that the board mounting and wire connections be rugged. The
transmitter boards would be the same except using a DS26C31 and .1 inch
connectors. The board could be single sided with surface mounted
components. You can see a first pass of this board here in the fourth
picture down:

http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/

I don't have a CNC mill yet, so I can't mechanically etch the boards I
need. Making a batch of these boards might be a good project to see how
pooling resources works.

Kirk Wallace


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Re: [Emc-users] Just a Thought

[Jon Elson]

ben lipkowitz wrote:
>>>We tried to make a map where the users could place a pin at
>>>their location, I don't know what has happened to it.
>>
>>what ever has happened to the map ( google map if I remember right )
>>that even had pic's of users equipment ?
> 
> 
> the map is here:
> http://www.frappr.com/emc2
Oh, great!  Another example of MicroSoft-centric web thinking. 
So, we have a Linux-based project, but you can't view the map 
without extensive gyrations to install MicroSoft spoofing 
software!  I have to hang upside down by my toes to get Flash
Player 9 to run.  (I can't find a version of flash player 8 
anywhere.)

Nope, can't get it to run under Firefox either, which has flash 
player 9 installed (but may not be working right).

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language

[Jeff Epler]

On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 03:16:35PM +0200, Sven Mueller wrote:
> Ask user to define minimum and maximum X, Y and Z positions by moving
> the tooltip to the relevant positions manually or by entering the values
> numerically. Then use a procedural (possibly recursive) approach to scan
> the work pieces surface with a touch probe.

"O-words" are powerful enough to represent looping and recursion.  Even
before "O-words", variables and expressions were available in emc's
gcode.

However, there is no gcode for "allow the user to jog to a position then
signal the program to continue".  In fact, allowing something like this
is a big change because "running a program" and "ready to jog" were
designed as mutually exclusive, and this is deeply ingrained in many
places including the GUIs and the "task controller".  (there is a
similar division between "running a program" and "homing an axis" which
makes the occasionally requested "execute homing procedure" gcode
difficult to implement too)

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language

[Hansjakob Rusterholz]

Cool!

(I should read the Manual ;-))

Thanks anyway for telling me this feature.

Hansjakob

Am 15.08.2007 um 16:04 schrieb Jeff Epler:

> In emc2, these are known as "parameters".  The "#" character is  
> used to
> set them or use their values.
>
> A parameter can be set with gcode like
> #43=4000
> and used like this:
> X10 Y10 F#43
>
> Math is supported:
> #43=[sin[45] * 300]
> and can be used anywhere a number would be used:
> X10 Y10 F[sin[45]*300]
>
> Jeff
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with steppers

[Alex Joni]

> I'm
> sure there is a way to solve that problem, but nothing springs to mind
> right now.
>

how about a long limit switch (between 2 encoder indexes), just use a latch 
to toggle the state.

to summarize: actual switch AND encoder index -> toggle signal for the 
latch.
latch output -> emc home-sw input

Regards,
Alex


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Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language

[Jeff Epler]

In emc2, these are known as "parameters".  The "#" character is used to
set them or use their values.

A parameter can be set with gcode like
#43=4000
and used like this:
X10 Y10 F#43

Math is supported:
#43=[sin[45] * 300]
and can be used anywhere a number would be used:
X10 Y10 F[sin[45]*300]

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language

[Alex Joni]

> Ask user to define minimum and maximum X, Y and Z positions by moving
> the tooltip to the relevant positions manually or by entering the values
> numerically. Then use a procedural (possibly recursive) approach to scan
> the work pieces surface with a touch probe.

Not the most advanced waz to do this, but it does a good job.
http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/nc_files/gridprobe.ngc?rev=1.5;content-type=text%2Fplain

Regards,
Alex Joni 


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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with steppers

[John Kasunich]

Michel Gouget wrote:
> Dear All,
> 
> I am considering adding encoders and home switches to my Sherline CNC mill.
> 
> I see 2 benefits:
> 1) Being *sure* of not loosing steps (estop, ...)
> 2) Using (low precision) home switches and the index of the encoder, I get
> *excellent* repeatability when homing.
> 
> The mill is equipped with regular sherline steppers (135 oz-in, 1.8 degrees)
> and a P/N 8760 driver (800 step/rev.) connected to a parallel port. The
> steppers have a double ended 1/4" shaft. They are driving a 1mm master
> screw. Everything is connected to EMC2 running on a dedicated PC. All is
> actually working fine, with rapids of 450 mm/mn. I have a 4th axis on a
> turntable with the same stepper.
> 
> I expect to use US digital E2 quadrature encoders with 400 CPR and index,
> giving a maximal theorical resolution of 1/400 mm, more than needed :) for a
> cost of about ~200$.
> 
> I expect to use the E2 T model, which will be sticked on the rear of the
> stepper, in place of the handwheel, using the US digital centering tool.
> 
> I expect to connect the outputs of the encoders to a second parallel port on
> a PCI card.
> 
> My questions:
> 
> 1) Is it stupid :) ?

Encoders with steppers comes up every so often.  I wouldn't call it 
stupid, but there are issues.  If you lose a step because the load 
torque was more than the motor can deliver, a PID loop is not the 
answer.  PID's response to feedback falling behind command is to drive
the motor harder.  With a stepper, that means step faster, which will
just result in less motor torque and more lost steps.

That said, there ARE benefits to encoders with steppers.  If you avoid
closing the PID loop, you can still use the encoder for position 
feedback.  That would give you a following error if you ever lose steps.
Better to find out right away instead of much later.  It would also give 
you position feedback when the motors are disabled - basically a DRO 
during manual operation of the machine.

The idea of using the index pulse for accurate homing is an excellent one.

> 2) Has anyone already done that?
> 
> 3) Is a parallel post fast enough for reading the 4 axis encoder pulses at
> full speed?

I'm not sure whether your "400 CPR" encoders are 400 counts per rev or 
400 cycles per rev.  The latter would give you 1600 counts per rev.  If 
the former, the parport is definitely fast enough - you have 800 steps
per rev, and EMC's software based encoder counter can count at LEAST as
fast as the software based step generator can step.

If it is 1600 counts per rev, you need to do the math.  A speed of 
450mm/min with a 1mm screw is 450RPM.  450RPM/60 = 7.5 revs/second. 
Times 1600 counts per rev = 12,000 counts per second.  Add 50% to allow 
for variations in the quadrature waveform and you get 18,000 samples per 
second minimum.  That corresponds to a base period of 1/18000 = 55.5 
microseconds.  Just about any computer can do 50uS, and many people are 
running much faster base periods in the 20uS range.

> 4) Are there other encoders suitable? Is 400 CPR the correct value?

That depends on what your goals are.  With 800 step per rev drives, you
might want at least 800 counts per rev on your encoder.

> 5) I suspect that HAL+classicladder is powerful enough to handle the
> *complex* homing (eg. Zero till the home switch trips (low precision
> microswitch), then forward to the encoder index pulse, for all joints). Am I
> right? If not, is it possible to program the homing sequence in C ?

Actually, EMC2 can already do homing to an index pulse.  It finds the 
switch, then continues on to the index.  However there is a problem 
using that with steppers.

In a servo system, when you reach the index pulse during that final 
stage of homing, the feedback value suddenly jumps to zero from whatever 
it was (the encoder counter resets on index).  EMC is aware of that, and
the position command ALSO jumps to zero at the same time.  The result is
that the command and feedback to the PID match, and everything works.

But with steppers, you aren't using PID.  When the feedback jumps to 
zero, EMC will make the command jump to zero, and the stepgen module 
will see and attempt to follow that command jump.

One way to avoid that problem would be to run the stepgen in velocity 
mode with a normal PID loop.  (The default is to use position mode which 
doesn't need a PID loop and lets you avoid tuning.)  But doing that gets
you into all the joys of PID tuning.

An alternative approach would be to NOT reset the position feedback when 
the index pulse arrives.  Instead, the index pulse would be ANDed with 
the home switch to provide a "precision home switch".  The problem with 
that approach is that the "home switch" would only be on for a very 
short interval.  The homing code expects the home switch to turn on when 
you hit it, and not turn off again until you've backed off of it.  I'm
sure there is a way to solve that problem, but nothing springs to mind 
right now.

Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language

[Hansjakob Rusterholz]

Hi EMC2 pros

I was using 12 years IBH CNC: http://www.ibh-cnc.com

They had so called "Parameter sentences".
A parameter sentence was always one Line, and startet with a star,  
for example:

*N10 P43=4000

With this lines you could perform simple math like *+-/, sqr, If,  
goto etc, you had about 200 Parameters (P0...P200)
This parameters are set global, this means you could simply call a  
subprogram to set machine zero points etc.
the great advance was you could move the Machine fixture to another  
place, set the new values in the subprogram and run all "old"  
programs without any hassle.

Parameter lines could not move any axis and set no M code

I used it a lot for parameterize my code, eg set machine fixture zero  
point, speeds. distances etc.

this Parametes could be used for setting distances, speeds etc in  
"normal" CNC code like:

N10 X10 Y10 F=P43

I'm quite sure, also other manufacturers used some similar approach  
to get such results.
In my opinion, this approach has the advantage, to be used without  
any restrictions for other CNC Code.

Only my 5 cents.

Hansjakob


Am 14.08.2007 um 08:10 schrieb Jeff Pollard:

>
> Hi,
>
>  The wiki.linuxcnc.org Emc features page has under the heading of  
> DONE:
>
> macro language: support for a macro language, the macros written  
> should be able to command motion & io. the macros should have  
> english-readable names and accept arguments and nesting
> added by: alex_joni (on IRC) and fenn
>
>   I couldn't find any reference to Macros in the EMC2 v2.1 Users  
> handbook.
>
>   Does anyone know if they are available, and if so, where I can  
> find documentation regarding them?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
>
> _
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language

[Sven Mueller]

Kenneth Lerman schrieb:
> What is it that you imagined? Other than the fact that o-words are numeric
> (on my list of work to do is allowing them to be alphanumeric), what else
> would you like?

I don't know what Fenn would like to see, but here is a use case for
such a language which I currently can't efficiently do in GCode (for one
because of missing symbolic names for variables or missing calling
parameters for O-words/functions/macros):

Ask user to define minimum and maximum X, Y and Z positions by moving
the tooltip to the relevant positions manually or by entering the values
numerically. Then use a procedural (possibly recursive) approach to scan
the work pieces surface with a touch probe.

Speaking of this: I thought I read on this list about such a use, but I
can't see any mentioning of a probe input in the list of pins in the
integrator manual. Is there such a pin or would I need to abuse some
other pin for that use?

Regards,
Sven

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Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language

[Andre' Blanchard]

He is probably looking for something a bit more industry standard.
Like G65 simple macro call and G66 modal macro call with G67 cancel, with 
more normal looking argument assignment.
Like this one using argument assignment type I.
G65 P1001 Z-0.750 R0.100 D#101 A#100 F#9
Then there is assignment type II which is more like what EMC does, the 
order of the parameters determines which local variable gets which value 
but the parameters on the calling line are labled with A_ B_ C_ I_ J_ K_ I_ 
J_ K_ I_ J_ K_ ... until all 33 local variables are used.

Then there is IF GOTO jumps and IF THEN loops

In the following #110 is the number of the tool being used and 13000 is the 
base number of the tool table with the radius comp numbers.
And #111 is the desired surface feet per minute, and the machine has a max 
spindle RPM of 8000.
*
(CALCULATE,RPM)
#33=#[13000+#110]*2(TEMP)
#19=[#111/[[3.1416*#33]/12]]
IF[#19LT8000]GOTO11
#19=8000.0
N11
*

Same thing using the IF THEN
*
(CALCULATE,RPM)
#33=#[13000+#110]*2(TEMP)
#19=[#111/[[3.1416*#33]/12]]
IF[#19GT8000]THEN #19=8000.0
*


and WHILE DO loops
*
#120= 2.000
#121= 0.010
WHILE[#120GT0.000]DO1
(code that does stuff with using #120)
#120=#120-#121
END1
*

and just a GOTO.
*
GOTO300
(code that does stuff)
N300
(code that does more stuff)
*



Also access to the status of the current modal commands using variable 
numbers 4001 - 4021 and 4201 - 4221.
Access to positon information using variables 5001 - 5104, so the macro can 
find out where the machine is currently siting and the endpoint of the 
block immediantly before the current one.
And every machine I have written macros for has had access to the tool data 
table so the macro can use that data to positon the tools without hitting 
things.

And all the rest of the stuff that comes with macro B, there is a macro A 
but it is a real pain to use.


At 06:56 AM 8/15/2007, you wrote:
>Hi Fenn,
>
>What is it that you imagined? Other than the fact that o-words are numeric
>(on my list of work to do is allowing them to be alphanumeric), what else
>would you like?
>
>Ken
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Mark Kenny Products Company, LLC
>55 Main Street   Voice: (888)ISO-SEVO (888)476-7386
>Newtown, CT 06470Fax: (203)426-9138
>http://www.MarkKenny.com
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ben
>lipkowitz
>Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:26 PM
>To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language
>
>
>Jeff,
>
>There most certainly is not any macro langauge, at least not one like I
>imagined. I bet someone figured that the O-word subroutine calls satisfied
>this feature request and moved it to the "done" list. I'm moving it back
>to the "request" list for now. Sorry about that.
>
>It sure was fun reading back over my old rambling super-future wishlist.
>
>-fenn

__
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with steppers

[Lester Caine]

Michel Gouget wrote:
> Dear All,
> 
> I am considering adding encoders and home switches to my Sherline CNC mill.
> 
> I see 2 benefits:
> 1) Being *sure* of not loosing steps (estop, ...)
> 2) Using (low precision) home switches and the index of the encoder, I get
> *excellent* repeatability when homing.
> 
> The mill is equipped with regular sherline steppers (135 oz-in, 1.8 degrees)
> and a P/N 8760 driver (800 step/rev.) connected to a parallel port. The
> steppers have a double ended 1/4" shaft. They are driving a 1mm master
> screw. Everything is connected to EMC2 running on a dedicated PC. All is
> actually working fine, with rapids of 450 mm/mn. I have a 4th axis on a
> turntable with the same stepper.
> 
> I expect to use US digital E2 quadrature encoders with 400 CPR and index,
> giving a maximal theorical resolution of 1/400 mm, more than needed :) for a
> cost of about ~200$.
> 
> I expect to use the E2 T model, which will be sticked on the rear of the
> stepper, in place of the handwheel, using the US digital centering tool.
> 
> I expect to connect the outputs of the encoders to a second parallel port on
> a PCI card.
> 
> My questions:
> 
> 1) Is it stupid :) ?
Basically - No - working via software - maybe

> 2) Has anyone already done that?
The Taig closed loop controller does it via a modified step and direction 
board, which adds extra steps itself when it detects a missed step. If the 
required count is more than 200 steps adrift, it flags a fault.

> 3) Is a parallel post fast enough for reading the 4 axis encoder pulses at
> full speed?
It probably can, but in combination with the pulse generation there may be a 
timing problem. You will only get the encoder edges sampled at the read rate, 
so while raw counts should be correct, there is a problem with fine control. 
As long as you do sample fast enough you should see all edges.

> 4) Are there other encoders suitable? Is 400 CPR the correct value?
If my calculations are correct that will give you 1600 edges in quadrature which
will be fine with your 800 step motor. You should see two steps per one that 
you request.

> 5) I suspect that HAL+classicladder is powerful enough to handle the
> *complex* homing (eg. Zero till the home switch trips (low precision
> microswitch), then forward to the encoder index pulse, for all joints). Am I
> right? If not, is it possible to program the homing sequence in C ?
> 
> 6) Any tips in setting up HAL? PID tuning? Best mode for the parallel port?
> Any existing example?

Not had the closed loop controller running with EMC, only the older open loop 
controller, but the hardware based solution does not require the encoder fed 
back to the computer anyway.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
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L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk
MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

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[Emc-users] Encoders with steppers

[Michel Gouget]

Dear All,

I am considering adding encoders and home switches to my Sherline CNC mill.

I see 2 benefits:
1) Being *sure* of not loosing steps (estop, ...)
2) Using (low precision) home switches and the index of the encoder, I get
*excellent* repeatability when homing.

The mill is equipped with regular sherline steppers (135 oz-in, 1.8 degrees)
and a P/N 8760 driver (800 step/rev.) connected to a parallel port. The
steppers have a double ended 1/4" shaft. They are driving a 1mm master
screw. Everything is connected to EMC2 running on a dedicated PC. All is
actually working fine, with rapids of 450 mm/mn. I have a 4th axis on a
turntable with the same stepper.

I expect to use US digital E2 quadrature encoders with 400 CPR and index,
giving a maximal theorical resolution of 1/400 mm, more than needed :) for a
cost of about ~200$.

I expect to use the E2 T model, which will be sticked on the rear of the
stepper, in place of the handwheel, using the US digital centering tool.

I expect to connect the outputs of the encoders to a second parallel port on
a PCI card.

My questions:

1) Is it stupid :) ?

2) Has anyone already done that?

3) Is a parallel post fast enough for reading the 4 axis encoder pulses at
full speed?

4) Are there other encoders suitable? Is 400 CPR the correct value?

5) I suspect that HAL+classicladder is powerful enough to handle the
*complex* homing (eg. Zero till the home switch trips (low precision
microswitch), then forward to the encoder index pulse, for all joints). Am I
right? If not, is it possible to program the homing sequence in C ?

6) Any tips in setting up HAL? PID tuning? Best mode for the parallel port?
Any existing example?

Thanks a lot,

Michel


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Re: [Emc-users] Just a Thought-standards

[Javid Butler]

> I mean it's really hard to actually read it, once you've paid the $15k or
> so to actually get the documents. (You can get an idea by looking at the
> draft standards.) This is done so the people who wrote the standards get
> to keep their jobs as the people who read and explain the standards to you
> in plain english.

As someone who writes standards, I have to disagree with this. It is 
extremely difficult to write standards, and the language comes from the need 
to say specific things in a general way that will be legally enforcable 
should the standard be adopted as law directly or by reference.

Look at the NEC. In many places it refers to an "ungrounded current carrying 
conductor", which in the vernacular is a "hot". Problem is, "hot" is an 
ambiguous term that works fine in casual conversation but not in a standard. 
If you are trying to make a specific rule for all hots everywhere in the 
country you have to use generalized languge or it will not be enforceable.

This brings up another point about forming a legal entitity. If EMC goes the 
non-profit route it would be better able to contribute to standards than 
individuals. Each standards making organization has it's own rules for 
participation, but most ANSI standards groups have a User interest category 
that often needs members. I have not looked into it in depth, and would be 
willing to if there is interest, but it is possible that EMC as an entity 
would be able to send a representative to the task group that maintains the 
G-code standard. That could have tremedous value.

Thanks,
Javid



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Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language

[Kenneth Lerman]

Hi Fenn,

What is it that you imagined? Other than the fact that o-words are numeric
(on my list of work to do is allowing them to be alphanumeric), what else
would you like?

Ken

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ben
lipkowitz
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:26 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language


Jeff,

There most certainly is not any macro langauge, at least not one like I
imagined. I bet someone figured that the O-word subroutine calls satisfied
this feature request and moved it to the "done" list. I'm moving it back
to the "request" list for now. Sorry about that.

It sure was fun reading back over my old rambling super-future wishlist.

   -fenn

> Hi,
>
> The wiki.linuxcnc.org Emc features page has under the heading of DONE:
>
> macro language: support for a macro language, the macros written should be
> able to command motion & io. the macros should have english-readable names
> and accept arguments and nesting
> added by: alex_joni (on IRC) and fenn
>
>  I couldn't find any reference to Macros in the EMC2 v2.1 Users handbook.
>
>  Does anyone know if they are available, and if so, where I can find
> documentation regarding them?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Just a Thought

[Ray Henry]

Hi Ben

On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 04:09 +, ben lipkowitz wrote:
> I want to make sure people are aware that these _are_ two distinct ideas 
> and that one is not reliant on the other. I think it would be a bad idea 
> for the two to be directly associated as there will eventually be 
> conflicts of interest between the two entities. This doesn't mean that 
> they can't help each other out when it is mutually advantageous.

Exactly and we don't want to lay any extra burdens on the board to keep
track of some sort of manufacturing -- other than software systems.

Rayh


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