Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Is the motherboard AGP 8x compatible? There can be issues plugging an 8x video 
card into a board with a slower slot. The AGP standard has provisions for 
backward compatibility but they were for the most part optional. Many 8x cards 
are 1.5 volt only, though some can tolerate 3.3V or 5V. IIRC only AGP 1x used 
5V. I found it best just to never try plugging a higher speed AGP card into a 
slower slot because of the potential for problems, and the slower slot always 
severely  bottlenecked it.
OTOH, PCI Express has much better backwards compatibility. Some brave people 
have even carefully cut slots in the front ends of shorter PCIE slots to fit 
cards with longer connectors. In the more money than brains category there's 
cutting off part of the card edge connector to plug it into a shorter slot. 
'Course if it's just a very common, cheap, older x16 card, go for it, chop it 
down to fit a short slot. It'll work if you don't cut too high. the crazy folks 
throw down hundreds of $ on a new card then get out the Dremel.
As for that Zotac card, I haven't laid hands on one. There are some YouTube 
reviews. They won't turn an olde business desktop into a high end game machine 
but they are considerably better than the built in chipset graphics. That's a 
bit of a price to pay for older GPU technology, but you're just wanting 2D GUI 
so it may be worth a try, if there's decent Linux support. If it doesn't work 
for you for LCNC it should do a fair job with Windows. 

Latest x32 Linux driver for the GT710 
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/123917/en-us

If you go for one of those cheap Quadro NVS 290, here's the newest x32 Linux 
driver with support for it. 
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/123702/en-us

On Tuesday, October 17, 2017, 4:19:34 PM MDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:  
 No luck.
Pretty as the display is with the AGP 8x board, it seems to lock up something 
in the LinuxCNC part.

Has anyone tried one of these with LinuxCNC?    Name brand this time.  Has 
HDMI, DVI and even VGA.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7HN5HW6133
John  
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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Has to be two different computers, right?
For PCIe x1, grab a Quadro NVS 290 off eBay, preferably with the dual monitor 
breakout cable it'll require. Those come in dual VGA, dual DVI or one of each. 
You'll also find plenty of ATi FireMV 2250 x1 cards but the Quadro beats the 
pants off it and has the benefit of no cooling fan to wear out. That ATi card 
also uses a dual monitor breakout, came cables as the Quadro.
 
I suspect AGP just has pretty poor Linux support. It was still early times with 
Linux during the heyday of AGP. Support for it has likely been so far back 
burnered it's off the stove with no recent work done.A quick google for Linux 
AGP support turns up hits that are mostly several years old. One summary 
mentions nVidia drivers not working if the kernel has AGPGART support compiled 
in.
Could be what you ran into, a conflict between kernel AGP support and video 
card driver AGP support. What's the brand and model of the AGP card? Any 
markings, on the PCB or stickers, may help ID it. Failing that, remove the heat 
sink (if equipped) and see what the video chip is.

On Tuesday, October 17, 2017, 4:04:27 PM MDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:  
 
 While I was out and about today, after doggy walk, I stopped in at a local 
computer store that also sells surplus stuff.  For $14.95 I picked up an AGP 8x 
generic video board.

Installed it, BIOS came up knowing it was AGP.  Linux came up with proper 
resolution.  Sharp. Crisp.  Then I ran the LinuxCNC Picker to use the generic 
Parallel port configuration for steppers just like I always have.  

Most of the screen came up this time fitting inside the monitor area.  And then 
it stopped.  Probably at the point where it would draw the LinuxCNC G-Code 
image.  In fact that area wasn't even black.  And the computer stopped.  Mouse 
moves around.  Keyboard dead.  Even the DVD ROM drive eject button doesn't 
work.  Only exit is the reset button or one time the power switch on the back 
of the power supply since the soft power off button wasn't working either.

Tried booting from the LiveCD with the same effect.

System off.  Installed system from LiveCD with new AGP card in place.  No 
better.  Still locks up.  Removed card. Rebooted.  Comes up now as before with 
incorrect resolution and LinuxCNC Picker doesn't run at all.  Something broke 
during reset or power off recovery.

Installing updates to see if that recovers the LinuxCNC Picker.  If not, I'll 
do a new installation again.  Need to find a different graphics card.  I have a 
PCIe but this board takes a PCIe 1x which is different.

I'm thinking at this point it will be easier and less trouble to stay with the 
Beagle until I have movable hardware.  
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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[John Dammeyer]

I do that with both the Pi and another WIN-7 application.  In fact that's how I 
run the 3D printer via Octopi.

I haven't tried getting into this new machine.  However, If I'm standing over 
the CNC machine it doesn't help if the workstation here with 2 1080P monitors 
is in another room.

For now I want direct control and the smaller resolution display won't cut it 
for me.  I'll also take another stab at creating an xorg.conf file.

There is a solution.  Just have to find it.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: October-17-17 3:41 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.
> 
> Why not just unplug the monitor, keyboard and mouse and run the system
> "headless".   Then you don't have to worry about graphics.
> 
> I'm sure you must own some other computer, the one you use to post here.
> Have your LinuxCNC machine use Ethernet to send the display to your other
> computer. That is mostly how I operate.  I have one Apple iMac with a 27
> inch screen and all the Linux server and Beagle and Pi3 are not connected
> to monitors.  They run Headless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 3:02 PM, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > While I was out and about today, after doggy walk, I stopped in at a local
> > computer store that also sells surplus stuff.  For $14.95 I picked up an
> > AGP 8x generic video board.
> >
> > Installed it, BIOS came up knowing it was AGP.  Linux came up with proper
> > resolution.  Sharp. Crisp.   Then I ran the LinuxCNC Picker to use the
> > generic Parallel port configuration for steppers just like I always have.
> >
> > Most of the screen came up this time fitting inside the monitor area.  And
> > then it stopped.  Probably at the point where it would draw the LinuxCNC
> > G-Code image.  In fact that area wasn't even black.  And the computer
> > stopped.  Mouse moves around.  Keyboard dead.  Even the DVD ROM drive
> eject
> > button doesn't work.  Only exit is the reset button or one time the power
> > switch on the back of the power supply since the soft power off button
> > wasn't working either.
> >
> > Tried booting from the LiveCD with the same effect.
> >
> > System off.  Installed system from LiveCD with new AGP card in place.  No
> > better.  Still locks up.  Removed card. Rebooted.  Comes up now as before
> > with incorrect resolution and LinuxCNC Picker doesn't run at all.
> > Something broke during reset or power off recovery.
> >
> > Installing updates to see if that recovers the LinuxCNC Picker.  If not,
> > I'll do a new installation again.  Need to find a different graphics card.
> > I have a PCIe but this board takes a PCIe 1x which is different.
> >
> > I'm thinking at this point it will be easier and less trouble to stay with
> > the Beagle until I have movable hardware.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: October-17-17 10:43 AM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.
> > >
> > > On 17 October 2017 at 18:30, John Dammeyer 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The Live LinuxCNC distro doesn't have or create an xorg.conf file.
> > Other
> > > > postings on the web suggest that this was disposed of in some
> > distributions
> > > > in favour of xrandr and/or probing on startup everytime.
> > >
> > > Yes, but if you _create_ an xorg.conf then it will be used.
> > >
> > > --
> > > atp
> > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > > lunatics."
> > > ? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> > >
> > > 
> > --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> --
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> 

Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[Chris Albertson]

Why not just unplug the monitor, keyboard and mouse and run the system
"headless".   Then you don't have to worry about graphics.

I'm sure you must own some other computer, the one you use to post here.
Have your LinuxCNC machine use Ethernet to send the display to your other
computer. That is mostly how I operate.  I have one Apple iMac with a 27
inch screen and all the Linux server and Beagle and Pi3 are not connected
to monitors.  They run Headless.




On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 3:02 PM, John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> While I was out and about today, after doggy walk, I stopped in at a local
> computer store that also sells surplus stuff.  For $14.95 I picked up an
> AGP 8x generic video board.
>
> Installed it, BIOS came up knowing it was AGP.  Linux came up with proper
> resolution.  Sharp. Crisp.   Then I ran the LinuxCNC Picker to use the
> generic Parallel port configuration for steppers just like I always have.
>
> Most of the screen came up this time fitting inside the monitor area.  And
> then it stopped.  Probably at the point where it would draw the LinuxCNC
> G-Code image.  In fact that area wasn't even black.  And the computer
> stopped.  Mouse moves around.  Keyboard dead.  Even the DVD ROM drive eject
> button doesn't work.  Only exit is the reset button or one time the power
> switch on the back of the power supply since the soft power off button
> wasn't working either.
>
> Tried booting from the LiveCD with the same effect.
>
> System off.  Installed system from LiveCD with new AGP card in place.  No
> better.  Still locks up.  Removed card. Rebooted.  Comes up now as before
> with incorrect resolution and LinuxCNC Picker doesn't run at all.
> Something broke during reset or power off recovery.
>
> Installing updates to see if that recovers the LinuxCNC Picker.  If not,
> I'll do a new installation again.  Need to find a different graphics card.
> I have a PCIe but this board takes a PCIe 1x which is different.
>
> I'm thinking at this point it will be easier and less trouble to stay with
> the Beagle until I have movable hardware.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: October-17-17 10:43 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.
> >
> > On 17 October 2017 at 18:30, John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The Live LinuxCNC distro doesn't have or create an xorg.conf file.
> Other
> > > postings on the web suggest that this was disposed of in some
> distributions
> > > in favour of xrandr and/or probing on startup everytime.
> >
> > Yes, but if you _create_ an xorg.conf then it will be used.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> > 
> --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>



-- 

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Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[John Dammeyer]

No luck.
Pretty as the display is with the AGP 8x board, it seems to lock up something 
in the LinuxCNC part.

Has anyone tried one of these with LinuxCNC?Name brand this time.  Has 
HDMI, DVI and even VGA.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7HN5HW6133
John



> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: October-17-17 3:02 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.
> 
> While I was out and about today, after doggy walk, I stopped in at a local
> computer store that also sells surplus stuff.  For $14.95 I picked up an AGP 
> 8x
> generic video board.
> 
> Installed it, BIOS came up knowing it was AGP.  Linux came up with proper
> resolution.  Sharp. Crisp.   Then I ran the LinuxCNC Picker to use the generic
> Parallel port configuration for steppers just like I always have.
> 
> Most of the screen came up this time fitting inside the monitor area.  And 
> then it
> stopped.  Probably at the point where it would draw the LinuxCNC G-Code
> image.  In fact that area wasn't even black.  And the computer stopped.  Mouse
> moves around.  Keyboard dead.  Even the DVD ROM drive eject button doesn't
> work.  Only exit is the reset button or one time the power switch on the back 
> of
> the power supply since the soft power off button wasn't working either.
> 
> Tried booting from the LiveCD with the same effect.
> 
> System off.  Installed system from LiveCD with new AGP card in place.  No
> better.  Still locks up.  Removed card. Rebooted.  Comes up now as before with
> incorrect resolution and LinuxCNC Picker doesn't run at all.  Something broke
> during reset or power off recovery.
> 
> Installing updates to see if that recovers the LinuxCNC Picker.  If not, I'll 
> do a
> new installation again.  Need to find a different graphics card.  I have a 
> PCIe but
> this board takes a PCIe 1x which is different.
> 
> I'm thinking at this point it will be easier and less trouble to stay with 
> the Beagle
> until I have movable hardware.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: October-17-17 10:43 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.
> >
> > On 17 October 2017 at 18:30, John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The Live LinuxCNC distro doesn't have or create an xorg.conf file.  Other
> > > postings on the web suggest that this was disposed of in some 
> > > distributions
> > > in favour of xrandr and/or probing on startup everytime.
> >
> > Yes, but if you _create_ an xorg.conf then it will be used.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > ? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[John Dammeyer]

While I was out and about today, after doggy walk, I stopped in at a local 
computer store that also sells surplus stuff.  For $14.95 I picked up an AGP 8x 
generic video board.

Installed it, BIOS came up knowing it was AGP.  Linux came up with proper 
resolution.  Sharp. Crisp.   Then I ran the LinuxCNC Picker to use the generic 
Parallel port configuration for steppers just like I always have.  

Most of the screen came up this time fitting inside the monitor area.  And then 
it stopped.  Probably at the point where it would draw the LinuxCNC G-Code 
image.  In fact that area wasn't even black.  And the computer stopped.  Mouse 
moves around.  Keyboard dead.  Even the DVD ROM drive eject button doesn't 
work.  Only exit is the reset button or one time the power switch on the back 
of the power supply since the soft power off button wasn't working either.

Tried booting from the LiveCD with the same effect.

System off.  Installed system from LiveCD with new AGP card in place.  No 
better.  Still locks up.  Removed card. Rebooted.  Comes up now as before with 
incorrect resolution and LinuxCNC Picker doesn't run at all.  Something broke 
during reset or power off recovery.

Installing updates to see if that recovers the LinuxCNC Picker.  If not, I'll 
do a new installation again.  Need to find a different graphics card.  I have a 
PCIe but this board takes a PCIe 1x which is different.

I'm thinking at this point it will be easier and less trouble to stay with the 
Beagle until I have movable hardware.

John




> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: October-17-17 10:43 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.
> 
> On 17 October 2017 at 18:30, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > The Live LinuxCNC distro doesn't have or create an xorg.conf file.  Other
> > postings on the web suggest that this was disposed of in some distributions
> > in favour of xrandr and/or probing on startup everytime.
> 
> Yes, but if you _create_ an xorg.conf then it will be used.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Tue, 17 Oct 2017, Chris Albertson wrote:


Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 10:41:26 -0700
From: Chris Albertson 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

Latency does not matter if the real-time timing is done on the "far end".
N the case
where you would use USB or Ethernet you'd have a processor, either an FPGA
or
a uP. If there is any kind of buffer or memory on the processor then
millisecond
hang-ups are OK.

Proof that this works is with al the machine tools that in fact use these
kinds of
links.   Or just look at anyone who is using an Ethernet connected Mesa card
with LinuxCNC.



You'd be correct if the far end device was just a dumb serial connected
parallel
port and all the timing was generated on the PC.



What you say is true of buffered interfaces like Mach/UCCNC/Etc use, It is not 
true of LinuxCNC where all the critical timing is done in the host. This 
normally requires at the minimum, reliable communications at the servo thread 
rate (normally 1 KHz).


The Mesa Ethernet cards are real-time an can support servo thread rates up to 
4 KHz on hosts with good real time performance




On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:


On Tue, 17 Oct 2017, Chris Albertson wrote:

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 10:02:09 -0700

From: Chris Albertson 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

On the Pi the Ethernet and USB are on the same shared bus.  But
how much bandwidth is required to drive a Mesa FPGA card?  I
have read the Ethernet port can only push about 40% of it's spec'd
bandwidth but the card only requires 2% it's OK.

If performance is the goal you's spend an eatery $50 and buy an
Intel PC mainboard rather than the Pi.





Performance is not the issue, latency with USB drivers is the issue.
USB or USB Ethernet have plenty of performance, but suffer from occasional
multi-millisecond latencies. These are fine for normal network usage
but not good for LinuxCNCs real time I/O.

There are some RPI form factor boards that do have Ethernet built into the
SOC
which might be suitable for real time Ethernet.


On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:56 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

On 17 October 2017 at 17:51, Greg Bentzinger  wrote:


> Using
> these boards Ethernet port as a dedicated port is an option,

I don't think it is. I have heard that the Pi Ethernet port is on the USB
bus.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
 George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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--

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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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--

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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Another thought on my failures re following errors

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 17 October 2017 11:01:29 Gene Heskett wrote:

> Greetings everybody;
>
> It occurred to me later last night, that these following errors
> absolutely have to be bus or card failure related.  The LCNC system
> has no feedback from the motors, only from the 5i25. So as long as
> thats working, I ought to be able to jog an axis at a reasonable speed
> until it thinks its run into a software set limit and do it without
> any following errors as long as the card is reporting back to LCNC
> that it has moved the motor by however far it was commanded to move.
>
> Ok, so test. I also have another Dell of that same vintage but a
> slower p4 cpu.  And while I use it mainly for programming the 5i25's,
> it does have linuxcnc installed.  So it could serve as a test mule.
> Stay tuned.
>
> Sometimes my one track mind can't see the trees for all the forest. :(
>
> An even newer patch for rt kernels was released on the linux-rt list
> this morning, so I have the rock64 building that, 4.11.12-rt16.  I'll
> test that when I figure out how the rock64 selects it versions to
> boot, its not clear to me yet. ATM its running the issue stretch
> kernel.
>
> So many irons, so little fire...
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Update, with one of the missbehaving 5i25's in this slower Dell it ran a 
couple of my old configs for TLM without a hiccup.

So I did a temporary sshfs hookup and copied the complete 
config/GO704fast directory to that machine. Without Jons pwm-servo to 
initialize, I had to troll thru the hal file, nuking any references to 
the boot module that requires, until it would run with nothing but the 
card in the pci slot. About 10 lines commented and one setp added to 
duplicate what the commented code did.

The problem came with the config!!!

So now, nuke the extra stuff in the ini file until it Just Works again.

Back later, hopefully with a finger pointed at the culprit.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 17 October 2017 13:02:09 Chris Albertson wrote:

> On the Pi the Ethernet and USB are on the same shared bus.  But
> how much bandwidth is required to drive a Mesa FPGA card?  I
> have read the Ethernet port can only push about 40% of it's spec'd
> bandwidth but the card only requires 2% it's OK.
>
The gpio is NOT on the usb bus. So all of my extra stuff I've carved into 
the sheldon's config, jog dials etc, A: runs in a 100hz thread because 
its more complex than a normal hal file, and B: does not have to go thru 
the usb bus, and it runs flawlessly, no missed events ever. It just 
works.

The problem in ethernet is its variable latency and TCP's 
encoding/decoding overhead.

This is what the spi bus bypasses, it all runs on the gpio pins. Only 4 
for a minimum setup. The pi is sending, at 1 millisecond intervals, 
several 32 bit packets (up to 4 I believe, or 16 bytes, at 41 megabaud, 
and receiving as much data back at 25 megabaud.  And that doesn't seem 
to make it breath hard either.

> If performance is the goal you's spend an eatery $50 and buy an
> Intel PC mainboard rather than the Pi.

And except for the atoms, heat the shop with them.
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:56 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> > On 17 October 2017 at 17:51, Greg Bentzinger  
wrote:
> > > Using
> > > these boards Ethernet port as a dedicated port is an option,
> >
> > I don't think it is. I have heard that the Pi Ethernet port is on
> > the USB bus.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 17 October 2017 12:56:45 andy pugh wrote:

> On 17 October 2017 at 17:51, Greg Bentzinger  
wrote:
> > Using
> > these boards Ethernet port as a dedicated port is an option,
>
> I don't think it is. I have heard that the Pi Ethernet port is on the
> USB bus.

I believe it is Andy, but it can keep up with my internet speed of around 
10 megabits/second w/o any heavy breathing. Thats relatively slow, 
considering that my inhouse stuff is 100 megabit for the minimum of any 
hub/switche, and most are gigabit rated.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[andy pugh]

On 17 October 2017 at 18:30, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> The Live LinuxCNC distro doesn't have or create an xorg.conf file.  Other
> postings on the web suggest that this was disposed of in some distributions
> in favour of xrandr and/or probing on startup everytime.

Yes, but if you _create_ an xorg.conf then it will be used.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[Chris Albertson]

Latency does not matter if the real-time timing is done on the "far end".
N the case
where you would use USB or Ethernet you'd have a processor, either an FPGA
or
a uP. If there is any kind of buffer or memory on the processor then
millisecond
hang-ups are OK.

Proof that this works is with al the machine tools that in fact use these
kinds of
links.   Or just look at anyone who is using an Ethernet connected Mesa card
with LinuxCNC.

You'd be correct if the far end device was just a dumb serial connected
parallel
port and all the timing was generated on the PC.



On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Oct 2017, Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 10:02:09 -0700
>> From: Chris Albertson 
>> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>> 
>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3
>>
>> On the Pi the Ethernet and USB are on the same shared bus.  But
>> how much bandwidth is required to drive a Mesa FPGA card?  I
>> have read the Ethernet port can only push about 40% of it's spec'd
>> bandwidth but the card only requires 2% it's OK.
>>
>> If performance is the goal you's spend an eatery $50 and buy an
>> Intel PC mainboard rather than the Pi.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Performance is not the issue, latency with USB drivers is the issue.
> USB or USB Ethernet have plenty of performance, but suffer from occasional
> multi-millisecond latencies. These are fine for normal network usage
> but not good for LinuxCNCs real time I/O.
>
> There are some RPI form factor boards that do have Ethernet built into the
> SOC
> which might be suitable for real time Ethernet.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:56 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
>
> On 17 October 2017 at 17:51, Greg Bentzinger  wrote:
>>
>> > Using
>> > these boards Ethernet port as a dedicated port is an option,
>>
>> I don't think it is. I have heard that the Pi Ethernet port is on the USB
>> bus.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> яя George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>>
>> 
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>


-- 

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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[John Dammeyer]

Hi,
The Live LinuxCNC distro doesn't have or create an xorg.conf file.  Other
postings on the web suggest that this was disposed of in some distributions
in favour of xrandr and/or probing on startup everytime.

You're right though, it does appear like there is a default 1920x1080
desktop size.  Since my monitor does max 1280x1024 at 75Hz the auto align
feature can't do much with it.

This link 
https://askubuntu.com/questions/377937/how-to-set-a-custom-resolution
results in the failed to get size of gamma error.
And this link
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=202637
which seems to suggest this is linked to the type of video driver.  Given
that I'm using the on board VGA source and whatever driver installed I'd
guess this is actually the first place to start.
I have two different video cards on hand but neither fit in this older
motherboard.

I have to leave this for a while and get some work done but I'll report back
when I find out more.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: jrmitchellj . [mailto:jrmitche...@gmail.com]
> Sent: October-17-17 8:06 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.
> 
> I first ran into this problem when I started building a new system with
the
> latest live iso, based on Debian.  It worked as expected on Ubuntu 10.04.
> 
> There seems to be multiple issues happening.
> From what you describe, it seems that the system is expecting a wide
(16x9)
> display.  There may be a setting in the display widget for this. If not ,
> you may need to dig into the xorg.conf file.  I set up my machine on a
16x9
> monitor, then moved it to the shop that has a low resolution 4x3 monitor,
> so I had to change that setup.
> Next,check to see if the monitor has an "auto align" or similar in it's
> menus.  If so, run it.  It will adjust the monitor to what the computer is
> sending it.  Magic!
> 
> The next issue I ran into was Axis display much taller than the display.
> For that I had to edit the hidden .axisrc file in the home directory.
> Finding information on that was difficult.
> In that file, there will be a line like:
> 1 root_window.tk.call("wm","geometry",".","1270x970+5+0")
> That sets the size & location of the Axis window on startup.  That example
> is what I have set for my liking.  The four numbers are: height, width,
> from left, from top.  My display is a 4x3, 1280 x1024.
> So I made the Axis display a bit smaller than the display area of the
> monitor.
> In adjusting this, I found that about 100 lines are off the bottom of my
> display.  I haven't had time to chase that down yet, I just tweeted the
> .axisrc file to get it to fit.
> 
> A bit log winded, so I hope this is the information you were looking for!
> 
> --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
> jrmitche...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The
> occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the
occasion.
> As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must
disenthrall
> ourselves, and then we shall save our country.*Abraham Lincoln
> *, *Annual
> message
> to Congress, December 1, 1862*
> *16th president of US (1809 - 1865)*
> 
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 12:19 AM, John Dammeyer
> 
> wrote:
> 
> > I have one more question which possibly relates to this motherboard and
the
> > Live LinuxCNC:
> > linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso
> >
> > Is it just the on board video or is it a general problem with Debian
LXDE
> > desktop?  I've seen complaints on the Pi Forums from a year ago on
desktop
> > size.  There are lots of other hits where people are complaining but not
> > much in the way of solutions.
> >
> > An example is here:
> > http://www.autoartisans.com/cnc/LXDE_BigDesktop.jpg
> >
> > The monitor appears to be a window into a much larger desktop.  I've
seen
> > this on the Beagle when I put a 1080P monitor on it.  The GEAR graphic
is
> > round.  On a smaller monitor where it's been squeezed onto the monitor
it's
> > no longer round.  Same with the swirly thing that is part of the default
> > background.  Round on this LinuxCNC install.  Round on the Beagle with
> > 1080P
> > but oval with the Beagle on a smaller monitor.  The Beagle Linux appears
to
> > work as expected.
> >
> > In the above screen grab example you can see the drop down menu is off
the
> > screen as is half the file system explorer.  I've fixed the panel so
it's
> > narrower by setting it to 95% and there's the rub so to speak.  If 95%
> > makes
> > it just a bit narrower then clearly the system must know how much is
> > visible
> > but the desktop itself appears to be 1920 wide with a height of 1080.
> >
> > After much searching I found a number of explanations on how to change
this
> > and none of them worked.  Either the programs weren't there or they
didn't
> > really address what seems to be a simple problem.
> >
> > How do I tell the system that I want the 

Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Tue, 17 Oct 2017, Chris Albertson wrote:


Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 10:02:09 -0700
From: Chris Albertson 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

On the Pi the Ethernet and USB are on the same shared bus.  But
how much bandwidth is required to drive a Mesa FPGA card?  I
have read the Ethernet port can only push about 40% of it's spec'd
bandwidth but the card only requires 2% it's OK.

If performance is the goal you's spend an eatery $50 and buy an
Intel PC mainboard rather than the Pi.





Performance is not the issue, latency with USB drivers is the issue.
USB or USB Ethernet have plenty of performance, but suffer from occasional 
multi-millisecond latencies. These are fine for normal network usage

but not good for LinuxCNCs real time I/O.

There are some RPI form factor boards that do have Ethernet built into the SOC
which might be suitable for real time Ethernet.


On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:56 AM, andy pugh  wrote:


On 17 October 2017 at 17:51, Greg Bentzinger  wrote:

> Using
> these boards Ethernet port as a dedicated port is an option,

I don't think it is. I have heard that the Pi Ethernet port is on the USB
bus.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
?? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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--

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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[Chris Albertson]

On the Pi the Ethernet and USB are on the same shared bus.  But
how much bandwidth is required to drive a Mesa FPGA card?  I
have read the Ethernet port can only push about 40% of it's spec'd
bandwidth but the card only requires 2% it's OK.

If performance is the goal you's spend an eatery $50 and buy an
Intel PC mainboard rather than the Pi.



On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:56 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 17 October 2017 at 17:51, Greg Bentzinger  wrote:
>
> > Using
> > these boards Ethernet port as a dedicated port is an option,
>
> I don't think it is. I have heard that the Pi Ethernet port is on the USB
> bus.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>



-- 

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Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[andy pugh]

On 17 October 2017 at 17:51, Greg Bentzinger  wrote:

> Using
> these boards Ethernet port as a dedicated port is an option,

I don't think it is. I have heard that the Pi Ethernet port is on the USB bus.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users]

On Tuesday, October 17, 2017, 4:28:37 AM MDT, andy pugh  
wrote:  
 
 On 17 October 2017 at 07:47, Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users
 wrote:

> Ideally it would be great if someone could design a cape/hat/shield/ whatever 
> that mates to the Rpi/BBB and could approximate a EPP parallel port.

The hardware part exists.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SGKipu5XFvjNscfy2
(The chip is a level-shifter)

I made 20 but I think I gave them all away.
-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
So the big question is - does the PC type EPP communication require an x86 
architecture type interrupt and is there a way to write a driver that can 
provide that function.
Using the external FPGA cards offloads much of the traffic from the unit 
running LCNC and hopefully will allow acceptable GUI performance. Using these 
boards Ethernet port as a dedicated port is an option, but then you need to add 
a second network connection via USB if I understand correctly. When USB started 
getting really popular with scanners and printers I was working help desk. We 
defined USB to mean Unilaterally Sucks Bad.

The other little item I have been looking for is a small mega-capacitor 
mini-UPS that can be wired in to handle boot and power off but otherwise keep 
the unit alive during minor disruptions.
Greg Bentzinger---
  
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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[jrmitchellj .]

I first ran into this problem when I started building a new system with the
latest live iso, based on Debian.  It worked as expected on Ubuntu 10.04.

There seems to be multiple issues happening.
>From what you describe, it seems that the system is expecting a wide (16x9)
display.  There may be a setting in the display widget for this. If not ,
you may need to dig into the xorg.conf file.  I set up my machine on a 16x9
monitor, then moved it to the shop that has a low resolution 4x3 monitor,
so I had to change that setup.
Next,check to see if the monitor has an "auto align" or similar in it's
menus.  If so, run it.  It will adjust the monitor to what the computer is
sending it.  Magic!

The next issue I ran into was Axis display much taller than the display.
For that I had to edit the hidden .axisrc file in the home directory.
Finding information on that was difficult.
In that file, there will be a line like:
1 root_window.tk.call("wm","geometry",".","1270x970+5+0")
That sets the size & location of the Axis window on startup.  That example
is what I have set for my liking.  The four numbers are: height, width,
from left, from top.  My display is a 4x3, 1280 x1024.
So I made the Axis display a bit smaller than the display area of the
monitor.
In adjusting this, I found that about 100 lines are off the bottom of my
display.  I haven't had time to chase that down yet, I just tweeted the
.axisrc file to get it to fit.

A bit log winded, so I hope this is the information you were looking for!

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com



The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The
occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion.
As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall
ourselves, and then we shall save our country.*Abraham Lincoln
*, *Annual message
to Congress, December 1, 1862*
*16th president of US (1809 - 1865)*

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 12:19 AM, John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> I have one more question which possibly relates to this motherboard and the
> Live LinuxCNC:
> linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso
>
> Is it just the on board video or is it a general problem with Debian LXDE
> desktop?  I've seen complaints on the Pi Forums from a year ago on desktop
> size.  There are lots of other hits where people are complaining but not
> much in the way of solutions.
>
> An example is here:
> http://www.autoartisans.com/cnc/LXDE_BigDesktop.jpg
>
> The monitor appears to be a window into a much larger desktop.  I've seen
> this on the Beagle when I put a 1080P monitor on it.  The GEAR graphic is
> round.  On a smaller monitor where it's been squeezed onto the monitor it's
> no longer round.  Same with the swirly thing that is part of the default
> background.  Round on this LinuxCNC install.  Round on the Beagle with
> 1080P
> but oval with the Beagle on a smaller monitor.  The Beagle Linux appears to
> work as expected.
>
> In the above screen grab example you can see the drop down menu is off the
> screen as is half the file system explorer.  I've fixed the panel so it's
> narrower by setting it to 95% and there's the rub so to speak.  If 95%
> makes
> it just a bit narrower then clearly the system must know how much is
> visible
> but the desktop itself appears to be 1920 wide with a height of 1080.
>
> After much searching I found a number of explanations on how to change this
> and none of them worked.  Either the programs weren't there or they didn't
> really address what seems to be a simple problem.
>
> How do I tell the system that I want the desktop to be the same size as the
> monitor?
>
> When I run LinuxCNC  Config Picker and then run say the parallel port Inch
> Version the AXIS window doesn't fit.  The bottom is below the screen.  So
> it
> must think it's on a bigger desktop too?
>
> Is this a Motherboard Video controller issue with Linux thinking it's a
> bigger screen or is it configuration issue?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
>
>
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[Emc-users] Another thought on my failures re following errors

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings everybody;

It occurred to me later last night, that these following errors 
absolutely have to be bus or card failure related.  The LCNC system has 
no feedback from the motors, only from the 5i25. So as long as thats 
working, I ought to be able to jog an axis at a reasonable speed until 
it thinks its run into a software set limit and do it without any 
following errors as long as the card is reporting back to LCNC that it 
has moved the motor by however far it was commanded to move.

Ok, so test. I also have another Dell of that same vintage but a slower 
p4 cpu.  And while I use it mainly for programming the 5i25's, it does 
have linuxcnc installed.  So it could serve as a test mule. Stay tuned.

Sometimes my one track mind can't see the trees for all the forest. :(

An even newer patch for rt kernels was released on the linux-rt list this 
morning, so I have the rock64 building that, 4.11.12-rt16.  I'll test 
that when I figure out how the rock64 selects it versions to boot, its 
not clear to me yet. ATM its running the issue stretch kernel.

So many irons, so little fire...

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 17 October 2017 09:21:45 andy pugh wrote:

> On 17 October 2017 at 14:17, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > I've forgotten where its at, but there is a list that will let you
> > match the hdmi_group and hdmi_mode lines to your monitor.
>
> https://elinux.org/RPiconfig

>From that page, what advantage might this be, and will it brick the sd 
card? Bear in mind that piclone has never worked on my pi's because no 
two sd cards are exactly the same size, so the resultant clone is 
unreadable. I have rsync'd copies on rotating media attached, but the 
commands to make it boot from that media haven't set that bit in the SoC 
to make it happen.

Enable ARMv8 on RPi3B
When running lscpu or cat /proc/cpuinfo the reported processor ist ARMv7. 
To tell the RPi3B to start in ARMv8-mode you have to add a new line to 
config.txt.[10]

 arm_control=0x200

Can anyone elaborate on this?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[andy pugh]

On 17 October 2017 at 14:17, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> I've forgotten where its at, but there is a list that will let you match
> the hdmi_group and hdmi_mode lines to your monitor.

https://elinux.org/RPiconfig


-- 
atp
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 17 October 2017 04:29:56 Chris Albertson wrote:

> The first thing to try is "Applications Menu --> Settings --> Display"
>  then you set resolution to something smaller than your monitor.
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 12:19 AM, John Dammeyer
> 
>
> wrote:
> > I have one more question which possibly relates to this motherboard
> > and the Live LinuxCNC:
> > linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso
> >
> > Is it just the on board video or is it a general problem with Debian
> > LXDE desktop?  I've seen complaints on the Pi Forums from a year ago
> > on desktop size.  There are lots of other hits where people are
> > complaining but not much in the way of solutions.
> >
> > An example is here:
> > http://www.autoartisans.com/cnc/LXDE_BigDesktop.jpg

I've not seen that on my pi, but in case your monitor isn't properly 
reporting its size to the x server, you can specify it in 
your /boot/config.txt by these two lines, which work well for a new aoc 
1920x1024 monitor.

# uncomment to force a console size. By default it will be display's size 
minus
# overscan.
#framebuffer_width=1280
#framebuffer_height=720

# uncomment if hdmi display is not detected and composite is being output
#hdmi_force_hotplug=1

# uncomment to force a specific HDMI mode (this will force VGA)
hdmi_group=2
hdmi_mode=82

# uncomment to force a HDMI mode rather than DVI. This can make audio 
# work in
# DMT (computer monitor) modes
#hdmi_drive=2

# uncomment to increase signal to HDMI, if you have interference, 
blanking, or
# no display
config_hdmi_boost=4

Working nicely on my Sheldon lathes pi 3b.
I've forgotten where its at, but there is a list that will let you match 
the hdmi_group and hdmi_mode lines to your monitor.
 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[andy pugh]

On 17 October 2017 at 12:00, TJoseph Powderly  wrote:
> Hi Andy, this chip?
> http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/GTL2000.pdf

That's the one.

-- 
atp
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[TJoseph Powderly]

Hi Andy, this chip?
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/GTL2000.pdf
Thx Tomp tjtr33

On Oct 17, 2017 6:29 PM, "andy pugh"  wrote:

On 17 October 2017 at 07:47, Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users
 wrote:

> Ideally it would be great if someone could design a cape/hat/shield/
whatever that mates to the Rpi/BBB and could approximate a EPP parallel
port.

The hardware part exists.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SGKipu5XFvjNscfy2
(The chip is a level-shifter)

I made 20 but I think I gave them all away.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[andy pugh]

On 17 October 2017 at 07:47, Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users
 wrote:

> Ideally it would be great if someone could design a cape/hat/shield/ whatever 
> that mates to the Rpi/BBB and could approximate a EPP parallel port.

The hardware part exists.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SGKipu5XFvjNscfy2
(The chip is a level-shifter)

I made 20 but I think I gave them all away.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[andy pugh]

On 17 October 2017 at 05:38, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> I'm seeing the same problem with that I have with the Beagle where LXDE
> just can't get the screen resolution on this Samsung monitor right.

You can force it.
I typically end up creating an Xorg.conf but the xrandr method is
slightly more friendly (while still being very much command-line)
https://askubuntu.com/questions/377937/how-to-set-a-custom-resolution


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[Chris Albertson]

An Ethernet connected Mesa board seems like it would connect with any
computer, pi, Intel PC or BBB.   Ethernet is pretty universal.

If you are worried about electrical power get an Intel Atom mainboard and
install a PCI connected Mesa card.   The Atom uses so little power it does
not need a fan.   In fact if you search for "fanless" main boards you get
quite a list of them and they all have conventional PCI connectors so the
cards will fit.

What's really needed is a Mesa replacement that has a universal connector
on it like Ethernet or USB3.  Could one of those inexpensive $16 FPGA cards
do this?  I don't know if the Ethernet or USB interface could be done with
the FPGA.  Or perhaps an ARM Cortex-M replacement for Mesa.  Either now
would be under $20   I think the best idea is to NOT make a new card but
use software to adapt an existing one to this use.

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:47 PM, Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I don't know how long the Pine64 will be available. The Raspberry Pi group
> on the other hand I expect will be around for the long haul just like the
> original Arduino project. Beagle Bone may not be moving forward anytime
> soon, but it looks like Centroid has gone in deep for that platform for
> there low end controller.
>
> Ideally it would be great if someone could design a cape/hat/shield/
> whatever that mates to the Rpi/BBB and could approximate a EPP parallel
> port. I know there are existing BBB capes that route PRU stepgens to DB25
> and I am not recommending revisiting that. Don't get me wrong as I am in no
> way advocating trying to hook up a standard parallel step/direction type
> BOB.
>
> What I would hope for is a reliable interface that could be used to drive
> Pico FPGA hardware or MESA 7i90 or 7i43 boards.
>
> Another option would be MESA SSERIAL. This would open all sorts of options.
>
> I am slowly conceptualizing how I want to do a scratch build CNC
> conversion on my G0602. As crazy as it might seem the driving reason to do
> this is power savings. My existing CNCturning center is a 23KvA machine and
> heats the whole shop when running. That machine is such overkill for so
> much of the small simple parts I often do.
>
> Peter - any chance an SSERIAL adapter could be made?
>
> Greg Bentzinger
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>



-- 

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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[Lester Caine]

On 17/10/17 08:19, John Dammeyer wrote:
> Is this a Motherboard Video controller issue with Linux thinking it's a
> bigger screen or is it configuration issue?

John ... getting modern graphics working reliably is one of the bane's
of my live these days. Running the screens in the office on the end of
KVM and links, the computers outside do not see the real hardware and
while in the past it was easy to manually set the screen resolutions to
get a working setup, these days it's almost essential that there is
nothing other than the actual monitor plugged in. Even so far as XP will
not now allow a 'virtual' screen ... so we have to have dongles plugged
in to trick the pigging software to thinking there is a real monitor :(

On the RaspberryPi there are settings to change the boarder around the
work area and I've got a cribsheet somewhere on that one :( But in
general the problem is with linux defaulting to 1024 by 768 when it
can't find a monitor setup. For some reason I can't see your screen grab
when I simply click on the link, but then a lot of web stuff simply does
not work now! So it's not just monitors. My motherboard machine has
booted up as 1024x768 and the monitor is scaling to display it on the
1920 by 1200 while some other monitors crop to the smaller size so as to
keep the aspect ratio right. Having downloaded your picture so I can see
it, there does seem to be a higher resolution image in the background?
So the graphics card is creating the boarder rather than the monitor ...
'xrandr' is a useful tool for checking and that is working on my LCNC
desktop install ... just not got time to play with it as yet.

-- 
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-
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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[Chris Albertson]

The first thing to try is "Applications Menu --> Settings --> Display"
 then you set resolution to something smaller than your monitor.

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 12:19 AM, John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> I have one more question which possibly relates to this motherboard and the
> Live LinuxCNC:
> linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso
>
> Is it just the on board video or is it a general problem with Debian LXDE
> desktop?  I've seen complaints on the Pi Forums from a year ago on desktop
> size.  There are lots of other hits where people are complaining but not
> much in the way of solutions.
>
> An example is here:
> http://www.autoartisans.com/cnc/LXDE_BigDesktop.jpg
>
> The monitor appears to be a window into a much larger desktop.  I've seen
> this on the Beagle when I put a 1080P monitor on it.  The GEAR graphic is
> round.  On a smaller monitor where it's been squeezed onto the monitor it's
> no longer round.  Same with the swirly thing that is part of the default
> background.  Round on this LinuxCNC install.  Round on the Beagle with
> 1080P
> but oval with the Beagle on a smaller monitor.  The Beagle Linux appears to
> work as expected.
>
> In the above screen grab example you can see the drop down menu is off the
> screen as is half the file system explorer.  I've fixed the panel so it's
> narrower by setting it to 95% and there's the rub so to speak.  If 95%
> makes
> it just a bit narrower then clearly the system must know how much is
> visible
> but the desktop itself appears to be 1920 wide with a height of 1080.
>
> After much searching I found a number of explanations on how to change this
> and none of them worked.  Either the programs weren't there or they didn't
> really address what seems to be a simple problem.
>
> How do I tell the system that I want the desktop to be the same size as the
> monitor?
>
> When I run LinuxCNC  Config Picker and then run say the parallel port Inch
> Version the AXIS window doesn't fit.  The bottom is below the screen.  So
> it
> must think it's on a bigger desktop too?
>
> Is this a Motherboard Video controller issue with Linux thinking it's a
> bigger screen or is it configuration issue?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > Sent: October-16-17 9:39 PM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.
> >
> > > From: jeremy youngs [mailto:jcyoung...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: October-16-17 7:48 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.
> > >
> > > I have had good luck with infrarecorder as a simple download to burn
> iso
> > > from a windoze computer
> > >
> >
> > So the Knoppix from the book published in 2005 wouldn't boot.  Neither
> would
> > 3 of the DVDs I programmed when I was even able to program them.  What a
> > colossal waste of time.  Should have cleaned the DVD laser diode on my
> > laptop first.  Then tried to burn the disk.
> >
> > Once clean, the MD5 verified iso file went onto the disk without
> problem.
> > And it booted.  And was readable.  And unlike Windows-XP or the Raspberry
> > Pi, I'm seeing the same problem with that I have with the Beagle where
> LXDE
> > just can't get the screen resolution on this Samsung monitor right.
> >
> > So I'll try a different monitor and maybe a non-on board video card but
> > LinuxCNC ran and let me choose basic parallel port configuration.
> >
> > Now to find a power supply for this PC that will fit in the box.  It will
> be
> > difficult to test this with my CNC router since it's connected via
> > USB-Smooth Stepper to all the hardware.  And I have a ways to go yet on
> the
> > mill conversion.
> >
> > But.  This motherboard does work with a more up to date Linux.  And
> that's
> a
> > good sign.
> > Thanks for the suggestions.
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Oct 16, 2017 9:36 PM, "John Dammeyer" 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Chris,
> > > > I had a LiveCD with Knoppix from 2005.  Came with a book.  It boots
> and
> > > > reaches the point where it's waiting for the hard drive I think.  All
> I
> > had
> > > > installed at the time was the CDROM.  With a hard drive plugged in it
> > > > didn't
> > > > look like it wanted to put the OS onto the drive or boot.
> > > >
> > > > So I installed WIN-XP to verify that at least the PC works.  Which it
> > does.
> > > > It really needs something more like WIN-7 but with only 2GB RAM max
> it's
> > > > not
> > > > exactly a powerhouse either.
> > > >
> > > > Now that the WIN-XP boots I'll try booting the LiveCD again and see
> if
> > it
> > > > hangs.  If I don't hit the F2 key it even puts the Penguin in the top
> > left
> > > > hand corner.
> > > >
> > > > I also downloaded an ISO image of Wheezy LinuxCNC but for some reason
> > > none
> > > > of my systems want to allow  the DVD to be written with any of the
> image
> > > > writers.  Not sure why.  4GB should be 

Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[Chris Albertson]

I think the first problem to solve is why you can't burn DVDs   You can
bypass that problem
if your PC is new enough to boot from a USB drive.  Most can do that.

That CD from 2005 is 12 yours old.




On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:35 PM, John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> I had a LiveCD with Knoppix from 2005.  Came with a book.  It boots and
> reaches the point where it's waiting for the hard drive I think.  All I had
> installed at the time was the CDROM.

-- 

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Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.

[John Dammeyer]

I have one more question which possibly relates to this motherboard and the
Live LinuxCNC:
linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso

Is it just the on board video or is it a general problem with Debian LXDE
desktop?  I've seen complaints on the Pi Forums from a year ago on desktop
size.  There are lots of other hits where people are complaining but not
much in the way of solutions.

An example is here:
http://www.autoartisans.com/cnc/LXDE_BigDesktop.jpg

The monitor appears to be a window into a much larger desktop.  I've seen
this on the Beagle when I put a 1080P monitor on it.  The GEAR graphic is
round.  On a smaller monitor where it's been squeezed onto the monitor it's
no longer round.  Same with the swirly thing that is part of the default
background.  Round on this LinuxCNC install.  Round on the Beagle with 1080P
but oval with the Beagle on a smaller monitor.  The Beagle Linux appears to
work as expected.

In the above screen grab example you can see the drop down menu is off the
screen as is half the file system explorer.  I've fixed the panel so it's
narrower by setting it to 95% and there's the rub so to speak.  If 95% makes
it just a bit narrower then clearly the system must know how much is visible
but the desktop itself appears to be 1920 wide with a height of 1080.

After much searching I found a number of explanations on how to change this
and none of them worked.  Either the programs weren't there or they didn't
really address what seems to be a simple problem.  

How do I tell the system that I want the desktop to be the same size as the
monitor?  

When I run LinuxCNC  Config Picker and then run say the parallel port Inch
Version the AXIS window doesn't fit.  The bottom is below the screen.  So it
must think it's on a bigger desktop too?

Is this a Motherboard Video controller issue with Linux thinking it's a
bigger screen or is it configuration issue?

Thanks
John




> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: October-16-17 9:39 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.
> 
> > From: jeremy youngs [mailto:jcyoung...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: October-16-17 7:48 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PC MB for Linux.
> >
> > I have had good luck with infrarecorder as a simple download to burn iso
> > from a windoze computer
> >
> 
> So the Knoppix from the book published in 2005 wouldn't boot.  Neither
would
> 3 of the DVDs I programmed when I was even able to program them.  What a
> colossal waste of time.  Should have cleaned the DVD laser diode on my
> laptop first.  Then tried to burn the disk.
> 
> Once clean, the MD5 verified iso file went onto the disk without  problem.
> And it booted.  And was readable.  And unlike Windows-XP or the Raspberry
> Pi, I'm seeing the same problem with that I have with the Beagle where
LXDE
> just can't get the screen resolution on this Samsung monitor right.
> 
> So I'll try a different monitor and maybe a non-on board video card but
> LinuxCNC ran and let me choose basic parallel port configuration.
> 
> Now to find a power supply for this PC that will fit in the box.  It will
be
> difficult to test this with my CNC router since it's connected via
> USB-Smooth Stepper to all the hardware.  And I have a ways to go yet on
the
> mill conversion.
> 
> But.  This motherboard does work with a more up to date Linux.  And that's
a
> good sign.
> Thanks for the suggestions.
> John
> 
> 
> 
> > On Oct 16, 2017 9:36 PM, "John Dammeyer" 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Chris,
> > > I had a LiveCD with Knoppix from 2005.  Came with a book.  It boots
and
> > > reaches the point where it's waiting for the hard drive I think.  All
I
> had
> > > installed at the time was the CDROM.  With a hard drive plugged in it
> > > didn't
> > > look like it wanted to put the OS onto the drive or boot.
> > >
> > > So I installed WIN-XP to verify that at least the PC works.  Which it
> does.
> > > It really needs something more like WIN-7 but with only 2GB RAM max
it's
> > > not
> > > exactly a powerhouse either.
> > >
> > > Now that the WIN-XP boots I'll try booting the LiveCD again and see if
> it
> > > hangs.  If I don't hit the F2 key it even puts the Penguin in the top
> left
> > > hand corner.
> > >
> > > I also downloaded an ISO image of Wheezy LinuxCNC but for some reason
> > none
> > > of my systems want to allow  the DVD to be written with any of the
image
> > > writers.  Not sure why.  4GB should be enough space for a 1GB ISO.
> > >
> > > Don't want to give up quite yet simply because the issues mentioned in
> the
> > > reviews were for a Linux that was 10 years old.   It's quite possible
> that
> > > the newer installs will have no trouble at all.
> > >
> > > Still it's progress.  On the weekend after looking at the smoked
custom
> > > sized power supply I had given up hope this would even run.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 

[Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3

[Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users]

I don't know how long the Pine64 will be available. The Raspberry Pi group on 
the other hand I expect will be around for the long haul just like the original 
Arduino project. Beagle Bone may not be moving forward anytime soon, but it 
looks like Centroid has gone in deep for that platform for there low end 
controller.

Ideally it would be great if someone could design a cape/hat/shield/ whatever 
that mates to the Rpi/BBB and could approximate a EPP parallel port. I know 
there are existing BBB capes that route PRU stepgens to DB25 and I am not 
recommending revisiting that. Don't get me wrong as I am in no way advocating 
trying to hook up a standard parallel step/direction type BOB.

What I would hope for is a reliable interface that could be used to drive Pico 
FPGA hardware or MESA 7i90 or 7i43 boards.

Another option would be MESA SSERIAL. This would open all sorts of options.

I am slowly conceptualizing how I want to do a scratch build CNC conversion on 
my G0602. As crazy as it might seem the driving reason to do this is power 
savings. My existing CNCturning center is a 23KvA machine and heats the whole 
shop when running. That machine is such overkill for so much of the small 
simple parts I often do.

Peter - any chance an SSERIAL adapter could be made?

Greg Bentzinger
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