Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)
You should not exceed the rating on your breaker in the circuit. It is sized for the wire installed in the walls. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Seth Rothenberg via EV Date: 1/20/2016 8:43 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Bill Dube , Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers) I have been thinking (dangerous I know) Is there a way for an instrument (live ohmmeter / ammeter) or an electronic circuit to recognize the gauge (and surmise the amperage protection likely in place) ? eg, measuring ohms from neutral to ground, (for 120 circuits) or doing a millisecond high-load test to see voltage drop? (I'm not an Electrician or an EE, but I have faith in their ingenuity :-) Where would i need this? For example, I got permission to charge from an inside outlet at a small building under construction. no idea at this time if it is 20a. (In this case, I could bring my circuit ID tool and look in the panel but don't need to at level 1 :-) (I got my EVSE cable yesterday ! :-) On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:28 AM, Bill Dube via EV wrote: > Paul, > > There are a number of places in your home that are _required_ by the > national electrical code to have dedicated 20 amp circuits for the 120V > receptacles. > There are at a minimum five (5) 20 amp 120V receptacle circuits in a modern > house: > https://dbs.idaho.gov/programs/electrical/publications/2014_Homeowner_guide_brochure.pdf > Sometimes, in a low-cost tract house without a garage there are less, (and > in older homes there could be fewer) but typically there are quite a few > more. The places that you will find additional dedicated 20 amp receptacles > for; the microwave, the garbage disposal, occasionally the dishwasher, etc. > Often, the savvy custom home builder will call for upgrades on 20 amp 120V > receptacles for the patio, pool, workshop area, green house, deck, workout > area, home entertainment area, basement, etc. > > You will notice that the code requires a 20 amp circuit for the garage, were > your EV is likely to be parked. > > In commercial buildings, typically _all_ of the 120V receptacles are 20 amp. > > I used to be an electrician, many years ago. I wired (and rewired) > _countless_ houses. :-) > > Bill D. > > > On 1/19/2016 2:56 PM, dovepa via EV wrote: >> >> A 120volt outlet is usually only rated for 15 amps. >> >> >> > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160120/de91509b/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)
Better check the wire and breaker before changing outlets. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Mike Nickerson via EV Date: 1/20/2016 8:20 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Bill Dube , Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers) While the circuit in the garage is probably 20A, it may be wired with 15A outlets. They are pretty easy to change, though. If I were going to charge an EV on a 120V outlet regularly, I would probably change it anyway. Most home construction uses light duty outlets that aren't built to take the load for hours per day. Change it to a good heavy duty outlet and it will work much better. Mike On January 20, 2016 1:28:43 AM MST, Bill Dube via EV wrote: >Paul, > >There are a number of places in your home that are _required_ by the >national electrical code to have dedicated 20 amp circuits for the 120V > >receptacles. >There are at a minimum five (5) 20 amp 120V receptacle circuits in a >modern house: >https://dbs.idaho.gov/programs/electrical/publications/2014_Homeowner_guide_brochure.pdf >Sometimes, in a low-cost tract house without a garage there are less, >(and in older homes there could be fewer) but typically there are quite > >a few more. The places that you will find additional dedicated 20 amp >receptacles for; the microwave, the garbage disposal, occasionally the >dishwasher, etc. Often, the savvy custom home builder will call for >upgrades on 20 amp 120V receptacles for the patio, pool, workshop area, > >green house, deck, workout area, home entertainment area, basement, >etc. > >You will notice that the code requires a 20 amp circuit for the garage, > >were your EV is likely to be parked. > >In commercial buildings, typically _all_ of the 120V receptacles are 20 >amp. > >I used to be an electrician, many years ago. I wired (and rewired) >_countless_ houses. :-) > >Bill D. > > >On 1/19/2016 2:56 PM, dovepa via EV wrote: >> A 120volt outlet is usually only rated for 15 amps. >> >> >> > >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160120/d362c319/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)
On 20 Jan 2016 at 8:03, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote: > You could have a 15A > outlet with 20A wiring, but I wouldn't try to draw 16A from it. While the > wiring could take it, the outlet isn't rated for it. If you take two "commercial duty" receptacles apart, one rated 15a and the other 20a, you won't see any difference in them. I haven't tried this with the 15a recepts from the 50 cent baskets at the big box stores, however. My suspicion is that with new ones you can draw 16 amps all day. With 20 or 30 year old cheapo receptacles, I wouldn't recommend it. Broadly speaking, if the left slot (with ground pin down) is T-shaped, it's a 20a rated 120v recept, and you can use up to 16a for charging. Otherwise, limit your charging to 12a. I can't think of any way to determine the receptacle's capacity electronically, without tripping the breaker or blowing the fuse. I'm not an engineer, though. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)
If everyone is following the rules, you shouldn't need that. From the outlet, you should be able to assume the wiring behind it. You could have a 15A outlet with 20A wiring, but I wouldn't try to draw 16A from it. While the wiring could take it, the outlet isn't rated for it. Tesla has a system kind of what you describe. Their charging cord has changeable ends. From the plug installed, they know the voltage and current capability they should expect. They draw 80% of the rated current. While ramping up the current, they watch the voltage. If it drops too much, they back off the current and warn that the wiring has a problem or an extension cord is being used. It then remembers that maximum current for the next time it charges at that location. Mike On January 20, 2016 7:43:06 AM MST, Seth Rothenberg via EV wrote: >I have been thinking (dangerous I know) >Is there a way for an instrument (live ohmmeter / ammeter) >or an electronic circuit to recognize the gauge (and surmise >the amperage protection likely in place) ? > >eg, measuring ohms from neutral to ground, >(for 120 circuits) or doing a millisecond high-load >test to see voltage drop? > >(I'm not an Electrician or an EE, but I have faith >in their ingenuity :-) > > >Where would i need this? >For example, I got permission to charge from an inside outlet >at a small building under construction. no idea at this time >if it is 20a.(In this case, I could bring my circuit ID tool >and look in the panel but don't need to at level 1 :-) >(I got my EVSE cable yesterday ! :-) > > > >On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:28 AM, Bill Dube via EV >wrote: >> Paul, >> >> There are a number of places in your home that are _required_ by the >> national electrical code to have dedicated 20 amp circuits for the >120V >> receptacles. >> There are at a minimum five (5) 20 amp 120V receptacle circuits in a >modern >> house: >> >https://dbs.idaho.gov/programs/electrical/publications/2014_Homeowner_guide_brochure.pdf >> Sometimes, in a low-cost tract house without a garage there are less, >(and >> in older homes there could be fewer) but typically there are quite a >few >> more. The places that you will find additional dedicated 20 amp >receptacles >> for; the microwave, the garbage disposal, occasionally the >dishwasher, etc. >> Often, the savvy custom home builder will call for upgrades on 20 amp >120V >> receptacles for the patio, pool, workshop area, green house, deck, >workout >> area, home entertainment area, basement, etc. >> >> You will notice that the code requires a 20 amp circuit for the >garage, were >> your EV is likely to be parked. >> >> In commercial buildings, typically _all_ of the 120V receptacles are >20 amp. >> >> I used to be an electrician, many years ago. I wired (and rewired) >> _countless_ houses. :-) >> >> Bill D. >> >> >> On 1/19/2016 2:56 PM, dovepa via EV wrote: >>> >>> A 120volt outlet is usually only rated for 15 amps. >>> >>> >>> >> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)
I have been thinking (dangerous I know) Is there a way for an instrument (live ohmmeter / ammeter) or an electronic circuit to recognize the gauge (and surmise the amperage protection likely in place) ? eg, measuring ohms from neutral to ground, (for 120 circuits) or doing a millisecond high-load test to see voltage drop? (I'm not an Electrician or an EE, but I have faith in their ingenuity :-) Where would i need this? For example, I got permission to charge from an inside outlet at a small building under construction. no idea at this time if it is 20a.(In this case, I could bring my circuit ID tool and look in the panel but don't need to at level 1 :-) (I got my EVSE cable yesterday ! :-) On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:28 AM, Bill Dube via EV wrote: > Paul, > > There are a number of places in your home that are _required_ by the > national electrical code to have dedicated 20 amp circuits for the 120V > receptacles. > There are at a minimum five (5) 20 amp 120V receptacle circuits in a modern > house: > https://dbs.idaho.gov/programs/electrical/publications/2014_Homeowner_guide_brochure.pdf > Sometimes, in a low-cost tract house without a garage there are less, (and > in older homes there could be fewer) but typically there are quite a few > more. The places that you will find additional dedicated 20 amp receptacles > for; the microwave, the garbage disposal, occasionally the dishwasher, etc. > Often, the savvy custom home builder will call for upgrades on 20 amp 120V > receptacles for the patio, pool, workshop area, green house, deck, workout > area, home entertainment area, basement, etc. > > You will notice that the code requires a 20 amp circuit for the garage, were > your EV is likely to be parked. > > In commercial buildings, typically _all_ of the 120V receptacles are 20 amp. > > I used to be an electrician, many years ago. I wired (and rewired) > _countless_ houses. :-) > > Bill D. > > > On 1/19/2016 2:56 PM, dovepa via EV wrote: >> >> A 120volt outlet is usually only rated for 15 amps. >> >> >> > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)
While the circuit in the garage is probably 20A, it may be wired with 15A outlets. They are pretty easy to change, though. If I were going to charge an EV on a 120V outlet regularly, I would probably change it anyway. Most home construction uses light duty outlets that aren't built to take the load for hours per day. Change it to a good heavy duty outlet and it will work much better. Mike On January 20, 2016 1:28:43 AM MST, Bill Dube via EV wrote: >Paul, > >There are a number of places in your home that are _required_ by the >national electrical code to have dedicated 20 amp circuits for the 120V > >receptacles. >There are at a minimum five (5) 20 amp 120V receptacle circuits in a >modern house: >https://dbs.idaho.gov/programs/electrical/publications/2014_Homeowner_guide_brochure.pdf >Sometimes, in a low-cost tract house without a garage there are less, >(and in older homes there could be fewer) but typically there are quite > >a few more. The places that you will find additional dedicated 20 amp >receptacles for; the microwave, the garbage disposal, occasionally the >dishwasher, etc. Often, the savvy custom home builder will call for >upgrades on 20 amp 120V receptacles for the patio, pool, workshop area, > >green house, deck, workout area, home entertainment area, basement, >etc. > >You will notice that the code requires a 20 amp circuit for the garage, > >were your EV is likely to be parked. > >In commercial buildings, typically _all_ of the 120V receptacles are 20 >amp. > >I used to be an electrician, many years ago. I wired (and rewired) >_countless_ houses. :-) > >Bill D. > > >On 1/19/2016 2:56 PM, dovepa via EV wrote: >> A 120volt outlet is usually only rated for 15 amps. >> >> >> > >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required (was: Leaf Chargers)
Paul, There are a number of places in your home that are _required_ by the national electrical code to have dedicated 20 amp circuits for the 120V receptacles. There are at a minimum five (5) 20 amp 120V receptacle circuits in a modern house: https://dbs.idaho.gov/programs/electrical/publications/2014_Homeowner_guide_brochure.pdf Sometimes, in a low-cost tract house without a garage there are less, (and in older homes there could be fewer) but typically there are quite a few more. The places that you will find additional dedicated 20 amp receptacles for; the microwave, the garbage disposal, occasionally the dishwasher, etc. Often, the savvy custom home builder will call for upgrades on 20 amp 120V receptacles for the patio, pool, workshop area, green house, deck, workout area, home entertainment area, basement, etc. You will notice that the code requires a 20 amp circuit for the garage, were your EV is likely to be parked. In commercial buildings, typically _all_ of the 120V receptacles are 20 amp. I used to be an electrician, many years ago. I wired (and rewired) _countless_ houses. :-) Bill D. On 1/19/2016 2:56 PM, dovepa via EV wrote: A 120volt outlet is usually only rated for 15 amps. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
