Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-10 Thread Thomas Geymayer
Am 2013-05-07 14:10, schrieb Renk Thorsten:
>> If you want I can create a video of my work in progress C-130J
>> making use of these animations.
> 
> This sounds very neat!
> 
> Hm, I guess one could make a video presentation of all animated
> features (like the trees moving in the wind, or the storm blows dust
> /leaves effect I'm working on), but maybe someone else should do that
> - video is not really my area of expertise...

I've now created a video of the nose landing gear during takeoff run and
retraction:

http://youtu.be/bWGLapFgOtw

There is nothing textured yet and also the video quality is not the
best, but I think the animations are demonstrated quite well.

Tom

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-08 Thread Thomas Geymayer
Am 2013-05-07 14:10, schrieb Renk Thorsten:
>> * Canvas instances can now be placed on scenery objects. This allows
>>   for example creating animated signs/monitors. I've started to create
>>   a Visual Docking Guidance System, which is not fully functionally yet
>>   but should be complete enough to be used for a screenshot (eg. azimuth
>>   guidance is missing)
> 
> If I could get a screenshot from you, that'd be nice.

I have updated the VDGS a bit and created some screenshots:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jswmmj6inh1k3go/cpj5XpD6KA

Maybe we should create a timeline of the VDGS (inside one/multiple of
the larger cockpit/outside views).

Tom

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-08 Thread grtuxhangar team
hello, Thomas

Thank a lot for your patience.
I do understand ( i guess  ) the mechanism.
We will have only to calculate the orientation  ( trigonometry application
) .
Which is not the worth.

Regards
ahmad


On 8 May 2013 16:35, Thomas Geymayer  wrote:

> 2013/5/8 grtuxhangar team :
> > Hello, Thomas
> >
> > Sorry my question was not clear, and i probably misunderstood the
> feature.
> > So,
> > just a question: how do you define the main parent actuator  axis
> rotation ?
> > that one which trigger every other child components.
>
> I am using the normal rotate animation to rotate the main strut. Every
> attached hydraulic cylinder, link, etc. is then animated using the
> locked-track animation. For a hydraulic cylinder the piston and the
> cylinder housing each are animated using a locked-track animation
> tracking each other. For a gear scissor, a locked-track animation
> tracks from a point attached to the strut to a point on the axis. Two
> objects can be attached to the animation, allowing to animate a
> scissor. (The object and the slave object, are rotated such that the
> exactly fill the space between the two attachment points of the
> scissor). For the second type of animation I will add some pictures to
> the wiki later on.
>
> >  Most of them are not rotating with a pure xyz axis rotation but very
> often
> > according to those alternate form (cf Vivian) .
>
> There is no difference in terms of what you can express. Both
> notations allow you exactly the same thing. For the animation a center
> point and an orientation (axis) are required to calculate the location
> and orientation of the rotation. Think of the center as the location
> of the hinge somewhere in space and of the axis as the actual
> orientation of the hinge.
> You can now either specify the position of the hinge and the
> orientation of its axis or (the alternate form) two points on the axis
> of the hinge, which are then used to calculate the center and
> orientation of the hinge. (If you use the alternate form the center
> and axis are automatically calculated from the two given points).
>
> There is no rotation that you can not describe with a single axis
> given by its xyz coordinates.
>
> > That the point  i was asking for, and the solution i was looking for.
> > I could be on the wrong way.
>
> Tom
>
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-08 Thread Thomas Geymayer
2013/5/8 grtuxhangar team :
> Hello, Thomas
>
> Sorry my question was not clear, and i probably misunderstood the feature.
> So,
> just a question: how do you define the main parent actuator  axis rotation ?
> that one which trigger every other child components.

I am using the normal rotate animation to rotate the main strut. Every
attached hydraulic cylinder, link, etc. is then animated using the
locked-track animation. For a hydraulic cylinder the piston and the
cylinder housing each are animated using a locked-track animation
tracking each other. For a gear scissor, a locked-track animation
tracks from a point attached to the strut to a point on the axis. Two
objects can be attached to the animation, allowing to animate a
scissor. (The object and the slave object, are rotated such that the
exactly fill the space between the two attachment points of the
scissor). For the second type of animation I will add some pictures to
the wiki later on.

>  Most of them are not rotating with a pure xyz axis rotation but very often
> according to those alternate form (cf Vivian) .

There is no difference in terms of what you can express. Both
notations allow you exactly the same thing. For the animation a center
point and an orientation (axis) are required to calculate the location
and orientation of the rotation. Think of the center as the location
of the hinge somewhere in space and of the axis as the actual
orientation of the hinge.
You can now either specify the position of the hinge and the
orientation of its axis or (the alternate form) two points on the axis
of the hinge, which are then used to calculate the center and
orientation of the hinge. (If you use the alternate form the center
and axis are automatically calculated from the two given points).

There is no rotation that you can not describe with a single axis
given by its xyz coordinates.

> That the point  i was asking for, and the solution i was looking for.
> I could be on the wrong way.

Tom

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-08 Thread grtuxhangar team
Hello, Thomas

Sorry my question was not clear, and i probably misunderstood the feature.
So,
just a question: how do you define the main parent actuator  axis rotation ?
that one which trigger every other child components.
 Most of them are not rotating with a pure xyz axis rotation but very often
according to those alternate form (cf Vivian) .
That the point  i was asking for, and the solution i was looking for.
I could be on the wrong way.
Thank
ahmad


On 8 May 2013 14:49, Thomas Geymayer  wrote:

> Hi Ahmad,
>
> 2013/5/8 grtuxhangar team :
> > Congratulation for the work, the team is giving a try, with one of our
> most
> > complex landing gear.
> > Though,  like Vivian, we are not Blender user.
> > However since :
> >
> >>Currently the alternate form is not possible.
> > We will want to define and to draw the ojects/group animation related,
>  out
> > of the aircraft main model, with the parent strut XYZ axis set to zero,
> >
> > AND only "at the end" to include that animated ojects/group within the
> > aircraft main model.
> >
> >  
> >  RightGearAnimated
> >  Aircraft/MyAircraft/Models/RightGear.xml
> >  
> >  -0.800652
> >  0.658753
> >  -0.683991
> >  3.289
> >  1.2528
> >  
> >  
>
> I'm not completely sure if I fully understand you, but if you want to
> include an animated submodel into your main model it should still
> work. There is no difference compared to the other existing
> animations. Also using the offsets transformations should work,
> although I have not tested it.
>
> > Which makes most of the landing gears to be redrawn.
>
> I think I don't really understand what you mean. Every object is drawn
> once. If you include your landing gear twice, it will be drawn twice.
>
> Tom
>
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-08 Thread Thomas Geymayer
Hi Ahmad,

2013/5/8 grtuxhangar team :
> Congratulation for the work, the team is giving a try, with one of our most
> complex landing gear.
> Though,  like Vivian, we are not Blender user.
> However since :
>
>>Currently the alternate form is not possible.
> We will want to define and to draw the ojects/group animation related,  out
> of the aircraft main model, with the parent strut XYZ axis set to zero,
>
> AND only "at the end" to include that animated ojects/group within the
> aircraft main model.
>
>  
>  RightGearAnimated
>  Aircraft/MyAircraft/Models/RightGear.xml
>  
>  -0.800652
>  0.658753
>  -0.683991
>  3.289
>  1.2528
>  
>  

I'm not completely sure if I fully understand you, but if you want to
include an animated submodel into your main model it should still
work. There is no difference compared to the other existing
animations. Also using the offsets transformations should work,
although I have not tested it.

> Which makes most of the landing gears to be redrawn.

I think I don't really understand what you mean. Every object is drawn
once. If you include your landing gear twice, it will be drawn twice.

Tom

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-08 Thread grtuxhangar team
Hello Thomas

Congratulation for the work, the team is giving a try, with one of our most
complex landing gear.
Though,  like Vivian, we are not Blender user.
However since :
>Currently the alternate form is not possible.
We will want to define and to draw the ojects/group animation related,  out
of the aircraft main model, with the parent strut XYZ axis set to zero,

AND only "at the end" to include that animated ojects/group within the
aircraft main model.

 
 RightGearAnimated
 Aircraft/MyAircraft/Models/RightGear.xml
 
 -0.800652
 0.658753
 -0.683991
 3.289
 1.2528
 
 

Which makes most of the landing gears to be redrawn.

Am i right ?
Thank

Ahmad



On 8 May 2013 11:30, Thomas Geymayer  wrote:

> Hi Vivian,
>
> 2013/5/7 Vivian Meazza :
> > Thanks, interesting. As a non-Blender user (it makes my brain hurt) the
> > references are a bit obscure.
>
> If you get used to Blender its a really powerful tool (I have problems
> if trying to work with other modelling programs :P) and with using the
> right scripts it gets a very neat tool for creating models for
> FlightGear. For example for a gear scissor just add an armature with
> two bones, add an IK constraint to the second bone and attach an
> element of the scissor to each bone, and you are done. You can watch
> the animation in Blender and using an exporter script now it is
> possible to watch exactly the same animation inside FlightGear. You
> don't need to guess any coordinates/axes/etc. and if you modify and
> object you just have to export it again, without manually modifying
> the animation xml.
>
> > Are the various axes always orthogonal?
>
> There are (currently) only two axes required. The lock-axis and the
> track-axis. They should be orthogonal, as the rotation is only
> possible round the lock-axis. Internally the track-axis is always
> orthonormalized to the lock-axis, as calculations always are performed
> in the plane normal to the lock-axis.
>
> > Can they also be specified in the alternate form:
> >
> > 
> > 5.1821
> > 0.221496
> > 0.794147
> > 4.99208
> > 0.114133
> > 0.842884
> > 
>
> Currently the alternate form is not possible. The problem is that we
> have two axes crossing at the same center, so which of the axes should
> specify the center? Also the center/axis form clearly states where the
> center is located, which is not the case with the alternate form (the
> center is located halfway between the two given points). For the
> rotate animation the exact location of the center along the axis is
> not relevant, but for the tracking animation it is.
> Also as one would probably not create the xml by hand, using multiple
> notations would not gain us anything.
>
> > If non-orthogonal  axes are allowed they are difficult in the
> > / form in the example in the wiki.
> >
> > Perhaps, when you have time, the information could be consolidated in
> >
> > http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Animate_models and
> > fgdata/Docs/model-howto.html
>
> I will do if timer permits :) Yesterday I have added some images. I
> don't know if you have already seen them.
>
> > Looks like valuable work to me: gear scissor links were very difficult
> with
> > the existing animations.
>
> That was the initial reason for creating it. But now it is also useful
> for creating complex kinematic systems as can be found for landing
> gears and their doors.
>
> Tom
>
>
> --
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-08 Thread Gijs de Rooy
Hi Tom,

This reads like the perfect (very) early Christmas present! This will keep me 
busy on my free "ascension day" tomorrow :-)

Thanks!

Cheers,
Gijs

> Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 11:30:58 +0200
> From: tom...@gmail.com
> To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation
> 
> Hi Vivian,
> 
> 2013/5/7 Vivian Meazza :
> > Thanks, interesting. As a non-Blender user (it makes my brain hurt) the
> > references are a bit obscure.
> 
> If you get used to Blender its a really powerful tool (I have problems
> if trying to work with other modelling programs :P) and with using the
> right scripts it gets a very neat tool for creating models for
> FlightGear. For example for a gear scissor just add an armature with
> two bones, add an IK constraint to the second bone and attach an
> element of the scissor to each bone, and you are done. You can watch
> the animation in Blender and using an exporter script now it is
> possible to watch exactly the same animation inside FlightGear. You
> don't need to guess any coordinates/axes/etc. and if you modify and
> object you just have to export it again, without manually modifying
> the animation xml.
> 
> > Are the various axes always orthogonal?
> 
> There are (currently) only two axes required. The lock-axis and the
> track-axis. They should be orthogonal, as the rotation is only
> possible round the lock-axis. Internally the track-axis is always
> orthonormalized to the lock-axis, as calculations always are performed
> in the plane normal to the lock-axis.
> 
> > Can they also be specified in the alternate form:
> >
> > 
> > 5.1821
> > 0.221496
> > 0.794147
> > 4.99208
> > 0.114133
> > 0.842884
> > 
> 
> Currently the alternate form is not possible. The problem is that we
> have two axes crossing at the same center, so which of the axes should
> specify the center? Also the center/axis form clearly states where the
> center is located, which is not the case with the alternate form (the
> center is located halfway between the two given points). For the
> rotate animation the exact location of the center along the axis is
> not relevant, but for the tracking animation it is.
> Also as one would probably not create the xml by hand, using multiple
> notations would not gain us anything.
> 
> > If non-orthogonal  axes are allowed they are difficult in the
> > / form in the example in the wiki.
> >
> > Perhaps, when you have time, the information could be consolidated in
> >
> > http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Animate_models and
> > fgdata/Docs/model-howto.html
> 
> I will do if timer permits :) Yesterday I have added some images. I
> don't know if you have already seen them.
> 
> > Looks like valuable work to me: gear scissor links were very difficult with
> > the existing animations.
> 
> That was the initial reason for creating it. But now it is also useful
> for creating complex kinematic systems as can be found for landing
> gears and their doors.
> 
> Tom
> 
> --
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> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and 
> their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed 
> leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. 
> Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-08 Thread Thomas Geymayer
Hi Vivian,

2013/5/7 Vivian Meazza :
> Thanks, interesting. As a non-Blender user (it makes my brain hurt) the
> references are a bit obscure.

If you get used to Blender its a really powerful tool (I have problems
if trying to work with other modelling programs :P) and with using the
right scripts it gets a very neat tool for creating models for
FlightGear. For example for a gear scissor just add an armature with
two bones, add an IK constraint to the second bone and attach an
element of the scissor to each bone, and you are done. You can watch
the animation in Blender and using an exporter script now it is
possible to watch exactly the same animation inside FlightGear. You
don't need to guess any coordinates/axes/etc. and if you modify and
object you just have to export it again, without manually modifying
the animation xml.

> Are the various axes always orthogonal?

There are (currently) only two axes required. The lock-axis and the
track-axis. They should be orthogonal, as the rotation is only
possible round the lock-axis. Internally the track-axis is always
orthonormalized to the lock-axis, as calculations always are performed
in the plane normal to the lock-axis.

> Can they also be specified in the alternate form:
>
> 
> 5.1821
> 0.221496
> 0.794147
> 4.99208
> 0.114133
> 0.842884
> 

Currently the alternate form is not possible. The problem is that we
have two axes crossing at the same center, so which of the axes should
specify the center? Also the center/axis form clearly states where the
center is located, which is not the case with the alternate form (the
center is located halfway between the two given points). For the
rotate animation the exact location of the center along the axis is
not relevant, but for the tracking animation it is.
Also as one would probably not create the xml by hand, using multiple
notations would not gain us anything.

> If non-orthogonal  axes are allowed they are difficult in the
> / form in the example in the wiki.
>
> Perhaps, when you have time, the information could be consolidated in
>
> http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Animate_models and
> fgdata/Docs/model-howto.html

I will do if timer permits :) Yesterday I have added some images. I
don't know if you have already seen them.

> Looks like valuable work to me: gear scissor links were very difficult with
> the existing animations.

That was the initial reason for creating it. But now it is also useful
for creating complex kinematic systems as can be found for landing
gears and their doors.

Tom

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-07 Thread Vivian Meazza
Tom

> Sent: 07 May 2013 10:06
> To: FlightGear developers discussions
> Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation
> 
> 2013/5/7 Vivian Meazza :
> > The tracking animation sounds useful - do you have any documentation
> > available? In due course it should end up in
> > fgdata/Docs/model-howto.html with all the other animations.
> 
> I have now added some examples and a basic documentation to the wiki:
> 
> http://wiki.flightgear.org/Tracking_animation
> 
> I will add some more info and images once I find some time for it.
> 

Thanks, interesting. As a non-Blender user (it makes my brain hurt) the
references are a bit obscure.

Are the various axes always orthogonal? Can they also be specified in the
alternate form:


5.1821
0.221496
0.794147
4.99208
0.114133
0.842884


If non-orthogonal  axes are allowed they are difficult in the
/ form in the example in the wiki.

Perhaps, when you have time, the information could be consolidated in 

http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Animate_models and
fgdata/Docs/model-howto.html

Looks like valuable work to me: gear scissor links were very difficult with
the existing animations.

Vivian
 



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-07 Thread Renk Thorsten
> * Canvas instances can now be placed on scenery objects. This allows
>   for example creating animated signs/monitors. I've started to create
>   a Visual Docking Guidance System, which is not fully functionally yet
>   but should be complete enough to be used for a screenshot (eg. azimuth
>   guidance is missing)

If I could get a screenshot from you, that'd be nice.

>   If you want I can create a video of my work in progress C-130J making
>   use of these animations.

This sounds very neat!

Hm, I guess one could make a video presentation of all animated features (like 
the trees moving in the wind, or the storm blows dust /leaves effect I'm 
working on), but maybe someone else should do that - video is not really my 
area of expertise...

* Thorsten
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-07 Thread Thomas Geymayer
2013/5/7 Vivian Meazza :
> The tracking animation sounds useful - do you have any documentation
> available? In due course it should end up in fgdata/Docs/model-howto.html
> with all the other animations.

I have now added some examples and a basic documentation to the wiki:

http://wiki.flightgear.org/Tracking_animation

I will add some more info and images once I find some time for it.

Tom

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-06 Thread Vivian Meazza
Tom

> Sent: 06 May 2013 23:11
> To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation
> 
> Am 2013-05-06 10:35, schrieb Renk Thorsten:
> > If you know of anything else which makes good publicity and can be
> > explained in a picture and a paragraph of text, let me know or better
> > let me have the picture and paragraph of text (preferably by the end
> > of the week).
> 
> * Canvas instances can now be placed on scenery objects. This allows
>   for example creating animated signs/monitors. I've started to create
>   a Visual Docking Guidance System, which is not fully functionally yet
>   but should be complete enough to be used for a screenshot (eg. azimuth
>   guidance is missing)
> 
> * The new tracking animation (similar to Blender's locked-track
>   constraint) allows easily animating complex kinematic systems. For
>   examples gear scissors, landing gear doors attached to struts (also
>   with links and joints in between) or also torque struts connecting
>   multiple gears with independent compression while still tracking each
>   other can be realized. Also any type of strut for eg. cargo ramps can
>   be easily animated.
>   If you want I can create a video of my work in progress C-130J making
>   use of these animations.
> 
The tracking animation sounds useful - do you have any documentation
available? In due course it should end up in fgdata/Docs/model-howto.html
with all the other animations.

Vivian 



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-06 Thread Thomas Geymayer
Am 2013-05-06 10:35, schrieb Renk Thorsten:
> If you know of anything else which makes good publicity and can be
> explained in a picture and a paragraph of text, let me know or better
> let me have the picture and paragraph of text (preferably by the end
> of the week).

* Canvas instances can now be placed on scenery objects. This allows
  for example creating animated signs/monitors. I've started to create
  a Visual Docking Guidance System, which is not fully functionally yet
  but should be complete enough to be used for a screenshot (eg. azimuth
  guidance is missing)

* The new tracking animation (similar to Blender's locked-track
  constraint) allows easily animating complex kinematic systems. For
  examples gear scissors, landing gear doors attached to struts (also
  with links and joints in between) or also torque struts connecting
  multiple gears with independent compression while still tracking each
  other can be realized. Also any type of strut for eg. cargo ramps can
  be easily animated.
  If you want I can create a video of my work in progress C-130J making
  use of these animations.

Tom

-- 
Thomas Geymayer  www.tomprogs.at / C-Forum und Tutorial: www.proggen.org

Institute for Computer Graphics and Vision
  Graz University of Technology
--- Austria 

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[Flightgear-devel] New features for 3.0 (?) presentation

2013-05-06 Thread Renk Thorsten

I thought it'd be a nice idea to present one or two articles on the FG project 
page about things to expect from the next release (3.0?). These would be 
features which have appeared on GIT since 2.10 or are epected to appear before 
the release. Consider the articles as advertisement material, so they should be 
visual, exciting and be at the forefront of what FG can do. 

I have flagged for the purpose

* tooltips and the gnome-themed new popup windows
* Heiko's devel version of the EC-135
* Stuarts work on AAR with new tanker planes 
* improvements with regional textures and trees
* (my own stuff on weather, light and hires procedural texturing)
* (what about the linear texture work on roads and railways?)

If you know of anything else which makes good publicity and can be explained in 
a picture and a paragraph of text, let me know or better let me have the 
picture and paragraph of text (preferably by the end of the week).

* Thorsten
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