Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
This is waaay off topic, and this is my only post on the topic. If you think the democrats never did anything for you, then you've never heard of the ADA. If you think democrats never did anything for you, then you've never heard of the copyright exceptions that allow accessible material to be produced without copyright permission from the copyright holders. These are just 2 of the many many many things democrats have done for you. I try hard to stay out of political debates, because what I think about the us system has no bearing on anything except what I think about the us system, and doesn't belong in most online places, but for those claiming neither party ever did anything for you, I can assure you that you're 100 percent wrong. (that's the last thing I'll say on this topic on list). On Fri, 13 Jan 2017, Josh Kennedy wrote: I am totally blind, I am Republican, and I am very proud and glad to be a deplorable human beings who was not aborted by tplanned parenthood and he Democrats. Sent with AquaMail for Android On January 13, 2017 7:52:26 AM Justin Jones wrote: Good luck getting this to be taken seriously by the legal system here in the United States. There are dozens of legal defenses that Valve could use to wriggle out of anything. Unfortunately, they could argue, with a good deal of justice, that most, if not all, their games are for sighted people so it is not their job to accomedate us. Finally, there is a very good chance that the Americans with Disabilities Act is going to be gutted by Cheeto Bonito and the deplorable human beings that put him into office/support him. This extends to the idiot Republicans in Congress who will happily throw us under the bus. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
Umm, guys. Anyone who wants to can use the steam platform. Sourcecode is available, so if you want to make an accessible steam game, have at it. There's nothing stopping anyone from doing so. Just purchase one of the many sample games with source code, and modify away to make it as accessible as you want. If someone does this, it's likely you could make the changes available for others to use, and poof, instant accessible steam games. ANo need to sue anybody. Just grab the source, and go to town on it. When it's accessible, let others know, and they can use it too. Where's the problem here? On Fri, 13 Jan 2017, dark wrote: Well universal access would be the ideal, but it is a very long way off indeed. In the case of steam though however, there has already been really extensive attempts to contact tthem that have been stone walled, and while I appreciate the efforts of anyone trying, I doubt very much valve will listen. In the 11 years I've been working in game access, not one single major main stream company has shown a consistant regard for accessibility in games development. There is the odd single landmark release such as sound voyage or studio 5, but that is more a matter of a specific designer wanting to create an audio game and the publisher of whatever system she/he is working for lacking up credit than any real commitment by the publisher, and once that designer's project is finished the publisher goes back to churning out games with the huge 3D graphics and big explosions that keep the prophets rolling in and the shareholders happy. Where progress is! made, is games by indipendent designers for systems that already have a degree of access, either through some commitment on the part of the publishers of that platform, or by third party developers working to make the systems themselves accessible through running external programs. So, while I applaud efforts to make Valve listen to access requests, I doubt they ever will. I personally would therefore suggest people encourage develpers of accessible games to stay away from steam, particularly because most developers who also publish accessible games on steam publish off it too (choiceofgames, nielsbauer etc), and because we shouldn't be supporting a company with no interest in accessibility at all. I can only at this point see steam being made accessible through some sort of third party software, ie, a steam screen reader, however sice steam itself is rather locked down to the point that it's interface can't be tampered with, I doubt any developer would be able to make something like that, even assuming Valve would give permission, since again with the modern business model of software development it's not like back in the nineties when anyone with the know how could make a screen reader and anyone else could freely use it. Summary, Good luck, but I fear that Steam is going to remain inacceisslbe due to the greedy bastards in charge (may they all die horribly of gout caused by their stupidly opulent life styles). Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Harmony Neil" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers. I think they should make the stuff accessible for everyone to play by default (although yes it will probably mean the developers doing their research and asking more questions), so people can play the games regardless of their perceived disability etc. Yes it means a few more lines of code but so what. That way there would be no need for a separation between say blind accenssible games and a game that random person can just pick up off the shelf and put in their computer or whatever they're playing the game on and play it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can m
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
Again, it's a question of ideals. if we had infinite time and resources, yes, certainly all audiogames that could would have readable subtitles, at least simplified graphics or similar, but pragmatically for a one or two person company that's just not possible to include all the time. On the other hand, if a death person say asked for an otherwise text game which happened to use an audio alert for a couple of specific events to have a textual or visual one, that would not be an issue, or rather any developer who refused such would not be reasonable. In the case of Valve and steam specifically though, they are a huge company and do! have the resources to make the basic steam interface accessible, html version would already work and it's not as if major companies don't make similar small adaptations for disabilities, eg, closed captioning for the deaf which now occurs in a lot of games. Again though it's one of these cases of literal lack of visibility, publicity, education and any sort of dialogue, indeed that is why so frequently once you can! talk to the actual people who do the developing, any sort of access questions are fairly easy to sort out, (I'd imagine the same goes for pretty much any disabled access). All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
Agree. All these guys on here are focusing on blind this and that, but when I say accessible I mean accessible to everyone regardless of stupid limitations. If they're not going to get rid of the limitations at least make the tools available to deal with them, no matter whether it's in terms of games or getting around places or whatever other situation it might be. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
The only truly accessible games I've seen for android not including the blind specific ones are dice world and trivia crack. As far as I know (correct if I'm wrong) the map system on lords and knights and celtic tribes is nowhere near as accessible if it all on android as it is on iOS. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
I'm not going to say one way or another if Steam should be required to make its platform blind accessible, but I do want to throw a question out for people to consider. And before I even ask it, know that I'm not asking anyone directly or looking for anyone to answer it. The audio games community has several small "companies" (usually 1 to 3 man teams) who have been making audio games over the years. Only a very tiny percentage of those games have visual graphics in them, in fact I'm sure the number of them could fit on one hand. Sighted players are not being discriminated against because they could just use the audio like the intended players, but what about deaf players? I know a woman from work who would be completely unable to play those games because she is completely deaf and the games have no graphics. Would this community take it seriously if she started up some sort of online petition and laid out demands to have all of the audio games "companies"/developers add usable graphics to their existing games? To take it a step further, what if the demands required the added graphics to allow her to play with the same experience as the blind players, since if the graphics left out anything that blind players could hear with audio, then she is at a disadvantage. If we decide that other people need to accommodate accessibility for blind players, should we be forced to accommodate deaf accessibility? Just something I was wondering.- Aprone --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
I can totally agree that most Republicans are idiots. There are a few decent ones out there but that is few and far between. Jordan -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:50 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers. Good luck getting this to be taken seriously by the legal system here in the United States. There are dozens of legal defenses that Valve could use to wriggle out of anything. Unfortunately, they could argue, with a good deal of justice, that most, if not all, their games are for sighted people so it is not their job to accomedate us. Finally, there is a very good chance that the Americans with Disabilities Act is going to be gutted by Cheeto Bonito and the deplorable human beings that put him into office/support him. This extends to the idiot Republicans in Congress who will happily throw us under the bus. If we want accessible games, we are going to have to do it ourselves; there is no other way around this. On 1/13/17, Ron Kolesar wrote: > Thanks Dark. > We deeply appreciate your support. > I've sent the info that I shipped to the list to a couple of ADA > lawyers that I've worked with to help them out a few years back. > So, I'm now hoping since I helped them out on a major project, that > they'll > > now be able to help out we the blind in our hour of need as well. > A huge thanks once again. > Ron > > -Original Message- > From: dark > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:58 AM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers. > > Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been > put into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already > speaks for itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam > and encourage developers of accessible games not to use it either. > > All the best, > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the > list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the > list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > -- Justin M. Jones, M.A. atreides...@gmail.com (254) 624-9155 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
I am totally blind, I am Republican, and I am very proud and glad to be a deplorable human beings who was not aborted by tplanned parenthood and he Democrats. Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com On January 13, 2017 7:52:26 AM Justin Jones wrote: Good luck getting this to be taken seriously by the legal system here in the United States. There are dozens of legal defenses that Valve could use to wriggle out of anything. Unfortunately, they could argue, with a good deal of justice, that most, if not all, their games are for sighted people so it is not their job to accomedate us. Finally, there is a very good chance that the Americans with Disabilities Act is going to be gutted by Cheeto Bonito and the deplorable human beings that put him into office/support him. This extends to the idiot Republicans in Congress who will happily throw us under the bus. If we want accessible games, we are going to have to do it ourselves; there is no other way around this. On 1/13/17, Ron Kolesar wrote: Thanks Dark. We deeply appreciate your support. I've sent the info that I shipped to the list to a couple of ADA lawyers that I've worked with to help them out a few years back. So, I'm now hoping since I helped them out on a major project, that they'll now be able to help out we the blind in our hour of need as well. A huge thanks once again. Ron -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:58 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers. Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been put into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already speaks for itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam and encourage developers of accessible games not to use it either. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Justin M. Jones, M.A. atreides...@gmail.com (254) 624-9155 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
People like President Obama and Hillary Clinton, and the other Democrats, they never did anything for me. And I am totally behind. The people who did stuff for me is the people I grew up with the teachers I had at the at the school for the blind. Democrats and people like that they never did anything for me in fact if they had their way I probably I probably would have been avoided and wouldn't even be alive right now. If the Democrats had their way. I would not be even alive. Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com On January 13, 2017 7:52:26 AM Justin Jones wrote: Good luck getting this to be taken seriously by the legal system here in the United States. There are dozens of legal defenses that Valve could use to wriggle out of anything. Unfortunately, they could argue, with a good deal of justice, that most, if not all, their games are for sighted people so it is not their job to accomedate us. Finally, there is a very good chance that the Americans with Disabilities Act is going to be gutted by Cheeto Bonito and the deplorable human beings that put him into office/support him. This extends to the idiot Republicans in Congress who will happily throw us under the bus. If we want accessible games, we are going to have to do it ourselves; there is no other way around this. On 1/13/17, Ron Kolesar wrote: Thanks Dark. We deeply appreciate your support. I've sent the info that I shipped to the list to a couple of ADA lawyers that I've worked with to help them out a few years back. So, I'm now hoping since I helped them out on a major project, that they'll now be able to help out we the blind in our hour of need as well. A huge thanks once again. Ron -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:58 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers. Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been put into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already speaks for itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam and encourage developers of accessible games not to use it either. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Justin M. Jones, M.A. atreides...@gmail.com (254) 624-9155 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
That may be, but in all seriousness, if we want games, we are going to have to make them. On 1/13/17, dark wrote: > Hi Justin. > > I don't know about the american legal question, but actually I don't think > the situation is quite that dire. > There are increasingly a lot of indi developers working on audiogames or > accessible text games, and with the rising indi market this is something > that will only increase. > Generally speaking I've found that if you can actually talk to a game's > developer, the actual person with the ideas who sits down and rights the > nuts and bolts code, changes do happen, since at rock bottom developers want > > people playing their games and are generally happy to make changes so that > vi gamers can. > > So, while I don't think steam will be accessible any time soon, I do see > more accessible releases from indi developers in stand alone packages for > Ios and windows, and more developers including access in the future. > > All the best, > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > -- Justin M. Jones, M.A. atreides...@gmail.com (254) 624-9155 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
So does that mean we're not going to see any new audio games for Android? Does that mean that for some reason developers are only going to develop for Windows and iPhone? It's disappointing that Android has the highest market share according to everything I've read, but yet there are not very many audio games for Android. Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com On January 13, 2017 10:49:04 AM "dark" wrote: Hi Justin. I don't know about the american legal question, but actually I don't think the situation is quite that dire. There are increasingly a lot of indi developers working on audiogames or accessible text games, and with the rising indi market this is something that will only increase. Generally speaking I've found that if you can actually talk to a game's developer, the actual person with the ideas who sits down and rights the nuts and bolts code, changes do happen, since at rock bottom developers want people playing their games and are generally happy to make changes so that vi gamers can. So, while I don't think steam will be accessible any time soon, I do see more accessible releases from indi developers in stand alone packages for Ios and windows, and more developers including access in the future. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
Hi Justin. I don't know about the american legal question, but actually I don't think the situation is quite that dire. There are increasingly a lot of indi developers working on audiogames or accessible text games, and with the rising indi market this is something that will only increase. Generally speaking I've found that if you can actually talk to a game's developer, the actual person with the ideas who sits down and rights the nuts and bolts code, changes do happen, since at rock bottom developers want people playing their games and are generally happy to make changes so that vi gamers can. So, while I don't think steam will be accessible any time soon, I do see more accessible releases from indi developers in stand alone packages for Ios and windows, and more developers including access in the future. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
Hi Ron. I certainly support efforts to contact huge companies, I just doubt that until they have either a legal or financial insentive such contact will bare fruite. I would however recommend people support those developers who do! create accessible games, and also let them know about the inequities with Valve's system too. All the best, Dark. Due to Btinternet being inconvenient, this email address will not be in use for very long. Please contact me on my other public address, d...@xgam.org. When I have a new private address, I will let everyone know. - Original Message - From: "Ron Kolesar" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers. Thanks Dark. We deeply appreciate your support. I've sent the info that I shipped to the list to a couple of ADA lawyers that I've worked with to help them out a few years back. So, I'm now hoping since I helped them out on a major project, that they'll now be able to help out we the blind in our hour of need as well. A huge thanks once again. Ron -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:58 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers. Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been put into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already speaks for itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam and encourage developers of accessible games not to use it either. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
Good luck getting this to be taken seriously by the legal system here in the United States. There are dozens of legal defenses that Valve could use to wriggle out of anything. Unfortunately, they could argue, with a good deal of justice, that most, if not all, their games are for sighted people so it is not their job to accomedate us. Finally, there is a very good chance that the Americans with Disabilities Act is going to be gutted by Cheeto Bonito and the deplorable human beings that put him into office/support him. This extends to the idiot Republicans in Congress who will happily throw us under the bus. If we want accessible games, we are going to have to do it ourselves; there is no other way around this. On 1/13/17, Ron Kolesar wrote: > Thanks Dark. > We deeply appreciate your support. > I've sent the info that I shipped to the list to a couple of ADA lawyers > that I've worked with to help them out a few years back. > So, I'm now hoping since I helped them out on a major project, that they'll > > now be able to help out we the blind in our hour of need as well. > A huge thanks once again. > Ron > > -Original Message- > From: dark > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:58 AM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers. > > Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been put > into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already speaks for > itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam and encourage > developers of accessible games not to use it either. > > All the best, > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > -- Justin M. Jones, M.A. atreides...@gmail.com (254) 624-9155 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
Thanks Dark. We deeply appreciate your support. I've sent the info that I shipped to the list to a couple of ADA lawyers that I've worked with to help them out a few years back. So, I'm now hoping since I helped them out on a major project, that they'll now be able to help out we the blind in our hour of need as well. A huge thanks once again. Ron -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:58 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers. Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been put into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already speaks for itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam and encourage developers of accessible games not to use it either. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
We have all tried contacting Valve Corporation via their phone number and via phone calls. When you call you only get a answering machine and they claim that they'll get back to you. But they don't return phone calls nor e-mail letters. The people that I've worked with have tried time and time again to get in touch with Valve Corporation and attempted to manage our way through the steam world. Also with real no success. So, hope this answers your questions. -Original Message- From: Tobias Vinteus Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:29 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers. Hi, Have people tried contactign the developers themselves or high-ranking community members or even the CEO, rather than going through the customer service? If even that woudl fail, I'd say legal measures are in order. Thanks, Tobias On Thu, 12 Jan 2017, Ron Kolesar wrote: Please read the letter that is down below and help us to force the united States based company Valve corporation who are the owners and the designers of the online gaming world known as STEAM accessible for we who use a screen reader and for blind gamers everywhere. Valve Corp, will not return phone calls. When you call you receive a answering machine and they say that they’ll get back in touch with you, but they never do. Also, they do not also not return e-mail letters as well. We the blind have attempted to advise them on how they could make the steam site and access to the programs for both free and for purchase blind accessible. But they don’t want to hear us. We have petitions out on the internet. If you do a search on something like. (petitions on how to make steam more accessible for the blind) You’ll see several petitions. I think the one petition on change.org has been closed out. But you’ll see comments from both blind and sighted supporters a like expressing why steam should be more accessible for we who would like to continue playing our favorite games and simulators. Now, here’s a more detailed letter with a couple of links that you also might want to take a look at as well. Any blind lawyers on this list who are gamers. We might want to share this with a few ADA lawyers. I’ve already have done that. So many thanks for the support. Now, here’s the letter with the links that you’ll also want to take a look at as well. Thanks for your support. Ron Calling all gamers. Please help by spreading the word about the following. We have to make the Valve Corporation here in the United States, the owner and designer of the new online gaming world STEAM to become blind friendly. When you call them, you just receive a answering machine and they do not get back to you. They also do not return e-mail letters as well. Here’s two links that might helps us to force STEAM to become blind accessible at long long last. Now here’s the links. The steam accessibility guidelines are here: http://www.interactiveaccessibility.com/news/new-requirements-video-games-fall#.WHgVFRiZPnB Any violation of these guidelines will encure a fine of I think 1 million dollars and a 6 month suspension and investigation via the FCC. The legal guidelines are also here. https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/04/cvaa-fostering-innovation-change/ Fines will also apply if valve does not follow these. By the way the dead line I think is this year. They are working on the chat being more accessible but for some reason they are not applying the accessibility hooks and elements into other parts of the program. block quote block quote end --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding t
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
Well universal access would be the ideal, but it is a very long way off indeed. In the case of steam though however, there has already been really extensive attempts to contact tthem that have been stone walled, and while I appreciate the efforts of anyone trying, I doubt very much valve will listen. In the 11 years I've been working in game access, not one single major main stream company has shown a consistant regard for accessibility in games development. There is the odd single landmark release such as sound voyage or studio 5, but that is more a matter of a specific designer wanting to create an audio game and the publisher of whatever system she/he is working for lacking up credit than any real commitment by the publisher, and once that designer's project is finished the publisher goes back to churning out games with the huge 3D graphics and big explosions that keep the prophets rolling in and the shareholders happy. Where progress is! made, is games by indipendent designers for systems that already have a degree of access, either through some commitment on the part of the publishers of that platform, or by third party developers working to make the systems themselves accessible through running external programs. So, while I applaud efforts to make Valve listen to access requests, I doubt they ever will. I personally would therefore suggest people encourage develpers of accessible games to stay away from steam, particularly because most developers who also publish accessible games on steam publish off it too (choiceofgames, nielsbauer etc), and because we shouldn't be supporting a company with no interest in accessibility at all. I can only at this point see steam being made accessible through some sort of third party software, ie, a steam screen reader, however sice steam itself is rather locked down to the point that it's interface can't be tampered with, I doubt any developer would be able to make something like that, even assuming Valve would give permission, since again with the modern business model of software development it's not like back in the nineties when anyone with the know how could make a screen reader and anyone else could freely use it. Summary, Good luck, but I fear that Steam is going to remain inacceisslbe due to the greedy bastards in charge (may they all die horribly of gout caused by their stupidly opulent life styles). Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Harmony Neil" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers. I think they should make the stuff accessible for everyone to play by default (although yes it will probably mean the developers doing their research and asking more questions), so people can play the games regardless of their perceived disability etc. Yes it means a few more lines of code but so what. That way there would be no need for a separation between say blind accenssible games and a game that random person can just pick up off the shelf and put in their computer or whatever they're playing the game on and play it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
I think they should make the stuff accessible for everyone to play by default (although yes it will probably mean the developers doing their research and asking more questions), so people can play the games regardless of their perceived disability etc. Yes it means a few more lines of code but so what. That way there would be no need for a separation between say blind accenssible games and a game that random person can just pick up off the shelf and put in their computer or whatever they're playing the game on and play it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been put into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already speaks for itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam and encourage developers of accessible games not to use it either. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
Hi, Have people tried contactign the developers themselves or high-ranking community members or even the CEO, rather than going through the customer service? If even that woudl fail, I'd say legal measures are in order. Thanks, Tobias On Thu, 12 Jan 2017, Ron Kolesar wrote: Please read the letter that is down below and help us to force the united States based company Valve corporation who are the owners and the designers of the online gaming world known as STEAM accessible for we who use a screen reader and for blind gamers everywhere. Valve Corp, will not return phone calls. When you call you receive a answering machine and they say that they’ll get back in touch with you, but they never do. Also, they do not also not return e-mail letters as well. We the blind have attempted to advise them on how they could make the steam site and access to the programs for both free and for purchase blind accessible. But they don’t want to hear us. We have petitions out on the internet. If you do a search on something like. (petitions on how to make steam more accessible for the blind) You’ll see several petitions. I think the one petition on change.org has been closed out. But you’ll see comments from both blind and sighted supporters a like expressing why steam should be more accessible for we who would like to continue playing our favorite games and simulators. Now, here’s a more detailed letter with a couple of links that you also might want to take a look at as well. Any blind lawyers on this list who are gamers. We might want to share this with a few ADA lawyers. I’ve already have done that. So many thanks for the support. Now, here’s the letter with the links that you’ll also want to take a look at as well. Thanks for your support. Ron Calling all gamers. Please help by spreading the word about the following. We have to make the Valve Corporation here in the United States, the owner and designer of the new online gaming world STEAM to become blind friendly. When you call them, you just receive a answering machine and they do not get back to you. They also do not return e-mail letters as well. Here’s two links that might helps us to force STEAM to become blind accessible at long long last. Now here’s the links. The steam accessibility guidelines are here: http://www.interactiveaccessibility.com/news/new-requirements-video-games-fall#.WHgVFRiZPnB Any violation of these guidelines will encure a fine of I think 1 million dollars and a 6 month suspension and investigation via the FCC. The legal guidelines are also here. https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/04/cvaa-fostering-innovation-change/ Fines will also apply if valve does not follow these. By the way the dead line I think is this year. They are working on the chat being more accessible but for some reason they are not applying the accessibility hooks and elements into other parts of the program. block quote block quote end --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
Please read the letter that is down below and help us to force the united States based company Valve corporation who are the owners and the designers of the online gaming world known as STEAM accessible for we who use a screen reader and for blind gamers everywhere. Valve Corp, will not return phone calls. When you call you receive a answering machine and they say that they’ll get back in touch with you, but they never do. Also, they do not also not return e-mail letters as well. We the blind have attempted to advise them on how they could make the steam site and access to the programs for both free and for purchase blind accessible. But they don’t want to hear us. We have petitions out on the internet. If you do a search on something like. (petitions on how to make steam more accessible for the blind) You’ll see several petitions. I think the one petition on change.org has been closed out. But you’ll see comments from both blind and sighted supporters a like expressing why steam should be more accessible for we who would like to continue playing our favorite games and simulators. Now, here’s a more detailed letter with a couple of links that you also might want to take a look at as well. Any blind lawyers on this list who are gamers. We might want to share this with a few ADA lawyers. I’ve already have done that. So many thanks for the support. Now, here’s the letter with the links that you’ll also want to take a look at as well. Thanks for your support. Ron Calling all gamers. Please help by spreading the word about the following. We have to make the Valve Corporation here in the United States, the owner and designer of the new online gaming world STEAM to become blind friendly. When you call them, you just receive a answering machine and they do not get back to you. They also do not return e-mail letters as well. Here’s two links that might helps us to force STEAM to become blind accessible at long long last. Now here’s the links. The steam accessibility guidelines are here: http://www.interactiveaccessibility.com/news/new-requirements-video-games-fall#.WHgVFRiZPnB Any violation of these guidelines will encure a fine of I think 1 million dollars and a 6 month suspension and investigation via the FCC. The legal guidelines are also here. https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/04/cvaa-fostering-innovation-change/ Fines will also apply if valve does not follow these. By the way the dead line I think is this year. They are working on the chat being more accessible but for some reason they are not applying the accessibility hooks and elements into other parts of the program. block quote block quote end --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Calling all gamers.
For my fellow gamers. I ask if you will read, sign and help circulate the following petition. The URL for the petition is at Most or not all of the games these days which also includes the original Mircosoft Flight simulator game that we blind pilots enjoy is going to a Steam platform owned by a company called Valve corporation. Please read, sign and help sirculate the following petition. https://www.change.org/p/valve-corporation-make-the-steam-platform-more-accessible-to-blind-and-visually-impaired-people Many Thanks. Ron and current Leader Dog boz who states "that a service dog beats a cane paws down any day of the week." --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Calling all gamers.
For my fellow gamers. I ask if you will read, sign and help circulate the following petition. The URL for the petition is at Most or not all of the games these days which also includes the original Mircosoft Flight simulator game that we blind pilots enjoy is going to a Steam platform owned by a company called Valve corporation. Please read, sign and help sirculate the following petition. https://www.change.org/p/valve-corporation-make-the-steam-platform-more-accessible-to-blind-and-visually-impaired-people Many Thanks. Ron and current Leader Dog boz who states "that a service dog beats a cane paws down any day of the week." --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.