subject:"Re\\\: \\\[google\\\-appengine\\\] Re\\\: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow"

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2015-02-16 Thread 'Alex Martelli' via Google App Engine

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 5:23 AM, Official George swaggybre...@gmail.com
wrote:

I want for real

Sorry, it's opaque to me what you mean by that. Elucidate please?

Alex

On Oct 4, 2013 6:06 AM, rcp rc.phe...@gmail.com wrote:

-1 from an 'enthusiast programmer'; SO considers me un-washed despite my
relentless effort to be concise and precise.

On Monday, February 6, 2012 6:14:54 PM UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:

*Hi App Engine Developers,In the last few years, the QA website Stack
Overflow http://www.stackoverflow.com/ has become an invaluable tool for
developer communities. We’re pleased to announce that we are migrating to
Stack Overflow as the official channel for answering development questions
about Google App Engine.The google-appengine
http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine group will remain open
for general discussions and announcements that are better suited for the
groups format.We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing
knowledge and answering support questions given its larger community,
de-duping of similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also
expect that App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit
from the wider range of language-related information not specific to App
Engine. In addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account
management, developers will not need to create a new account to participate
in the discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the
identity providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google
Accounts.We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups,
namely google-appengine-python
http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-python and
google-appengine-java
http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java. The
google-appengine-go
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/google-appengine-go
discussion group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the
Go runtime is in experimental status. The Python and Java groups will be
placed into read-only on March 5th, 2012. While answering technical
questions, we will begin nudging developers to ask their questions on Stack
Overflow using the google-app-engine tag
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/google-app-engine.Please let us
know if there are any questions or concerns about this announcement.Happy
coding!- Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2015-02-16 Thread Official George

I want for real
On Oct 4, 2013 6:06 AM, rcp rc.phe...@gmail.com wrote:

-1 from an 'enthusiast programmer'; SO considers me un-washed despite my
relentless effort to be concise and precise.

On Monday, February 6, 2012 6:14:54 PM UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2015-02-04 Thread 'Alex Martelli' via Google App Engine

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Clark Van Oyen cl...@countable.ca wrote:

 Great idea! Agreed, on it being a great thing that we can recursively
 define priorities within an established set of priorities in order to
 arrive at one deterministic path :) Best of luck in your new job!


I believe the proper wording is break a leg (I don't have any theatrical
background myself, but 2nd-hand that's how I heard it:-).

Alex



 On Wednesday, 4 February 2015 18:13:29 UTC-8, Alex Martelli wrote:

 Hi Clark,

 right -- *some* questions are system administration, so my plan (and I'm
 pushing as hard as I can to make this happen soon!) is to use tag
 google-cloud-platform on ServerFault for sysadm Qs (whether on GAE or any
 other parts of GCP).  I just recently (2 months, inc. holidays c)
 switched jobs within Google to 1:many tech support for cloud, and so far
 I've been drinking from the firehose listening and learning more than
 _doing_, but, the bias for action is taking over:-), but, I hope to make
 this happen ASAP (the great things about priorities is that you can always
 juggle them around to justify spending your time on what you think needs to
 be done *right now*...!-).


 Thanks,

 Alex


 On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 12:10:14 PM UTC-8, Clark Van Oyen wrote:

 I'm not having a lot of luck getting a response on SO, since apparently
 not all App Engine discussions are related to programming...

 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28285552/being-
 flooded-with-traffic-and-the-remote-ip-reported-in-app-
 engine-logs-as-sta?noredirect=1#comment44925358_28285552
 http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fstackoverflow.com%2Fquestions%2F28285552%2Fbeing-flooded-with-traffic-and-the-remote-ip-reported-in-app-engine-logs-as-sta%3Fnoredirect%3D1%23comment44925358_28285552sa=Dsntz=1usg=AFQjCNG2MgVFHR0Zu4dzjEvFKcUzGvtI3g

 On Monday, 6 February 2012 18:14:54 UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:















 *Hi App Engine Developers,In the last few years, the QA website Stack
 Overflow http://www.stackoverflow.com/ has become an invaluable tool for
 developer communities. We’re pleased to announce that we are migrating to
 Stack Overflow as the official channel for answering development questions
 about Google App Engine.The google-appengine
 http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine group will remain open
 for general discussions and announcements that are better suited for the
 groups format.We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing
 knowledge and answering support questions given its larger community,
 de-duping of similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also
 expect that App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit
 from the wider range of language-related information not specific to App
 Engine. In addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account
 management, developers will not need to create a new account to participate
 in the discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the
 identity providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google
 Accounts.We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups,
 namely google-appengine-python
 http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-python and
 google-appengine-java
 http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java. The
 google-appengine-go
 https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/google-appengine-go
 discussion group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the
 Go runtime is in experimental status. The Python and Java groups will be
 placed into read-only on March 5th, 2012. While answering technical
 questions, we will begin nudging developers to ask their questions on Stack
 Overflow using the google-app-engine tag
 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/google-app-engine.Please let us
 know if there are any questions or concerns about this announcement.Happy
 coding!- Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2014-03-26 Thread Vinny P

On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 3:31 AM, Aayush Anand aayushis...@gmail.com wrote:

 hi.. I am an aspirant of GSOC '14.
 I did register as student and submitted my proposal. But yesterday when i 
 tried to login, I found that my access is suspended only to GSOC. I was 
 redirected to the page saying If you've been redirected to this page from a 
 particular product, it means that your access to this product has been 
 suspended.
 (https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/40039?p=ah)

 i talked with google voice at GSOC forum and then from Melange developers. 
 Melange developers informed me that Melange uses App Engine for user 
 authentication and management

 at the same time i was working to fix a bug for the organisation for whom i 
 would like to work, on other tabs. This bug was relate to indifferent 
 behavior on session out. to recreate that bug i was deleting the cookies 
 again and again. after some time when i went back to my GSOC page and 
 refereshed it, i was redirected to that page saying my access is suspended. 
 and from then i am facing this problem.



Considering that the Google Summer of Code deadline has already passed, the
following advice is probably too little too late.

If anyone else finds themselves in the same predicament though, the better
option would be to edit the cookies directly using a cookie manager
(depending on your browser, you can download different plugins for this)
instead of repeatedly deleting them. That way, you can set up a predictable
testing environment and rule out possible confounding factors. If you still
run into the automated block problem, try re-accessing the page from a
computer with a different IP address (and preferably from an entirely
different network).


 -
-Vinny P
Technology  Media Advisor
Chicago, IL

App Engine Code Samples: http://www.learntogoogleit.com

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2013-06-26 Thread Moises Belchin

I'm not a big fan of SO.

Saludos.
Moisés Belchín.

2013/6/25 Hooman Korasani hou...@venuscloud.com

-1
Stackoverflow has a very strict FAQ rules, and questions are easily
closed. I don't think it is a good idea to move support to that platform.

On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 02:14:54 UTC, Ikai Lan wrote:

*Hi App Engine Developers,

In the last few years, the QA website Stack
Overflowhttp://www.stackoverflow.com/has become an invaluable tool for
developer communities. We’re pleased to
announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel
for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The
google-appengine http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine group
will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better
suited for the groups format.

We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge
and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of
similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that
App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider
range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In
addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management,
developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the
discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity
providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.

We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely
google-appengine-pythonhttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-pythonand
google-appengine-javahttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java.
The
google-appengine-gohttps://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/google-appengine-godiscussion
group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the
Go runtime is in experimental status.

The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th,
2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers
to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine
taghttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/google-app-engine
.

Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this
announcement.

Happy coding!

- Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2013-06-26 Thread Aswath Satrasala

-1 for SO.

-Aswath

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Moises Belchin moisesbelc...@gmail.comwrote:

I'm not a big fan of SO.

Saludos.
Moisés Belchín.

2013/6/25 Hooman Korasani hou...@venuscloud.com

-1
Stackoverflow has a very strict FAQ rules, and questions are easily
closed. I don't think it is a good idea to move support to that platform.

On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 02:14:54 UTC, Ikai Lan wrote:

*Hi App Engine Developers,

In the last few years, the QA website Stack
Overflowhttp://www.stackoverflow.com/has become an invaluable tool for
developer communities. We’re pleased to
announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel
for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The
google-appengine http://groups.google.com/group/google-appenginegroup
will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are
better suited for the groups format.

Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this
announcement.

Happy coding!

- Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2013-06-26 Thread Jeff Schnitzer

-1 for reviving a 1.5-year-old thread.

Jeff

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2013-06-26 Thread PK

Agree...

PK
www.gae123.com


On June 26, 2013 at 7:35:05 AM, Jeff Schnitzer (j...@infohazard.org) wrote:

-1 for reviving a 1.5-year-old thread.

Jeff


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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2013-04-15 Thread Rafael

aside from going unanswered, there's no way to query about generalized
system status, which happens quite often.

On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 4:47 PM, payala ppay...@gmail.com wrote:

This would be fine if someone answered questions, I find appengine related
questions on stackoverflow have a pretty high chance to go unanswered if
they are not dead-simple.

El martes, 7 de febrero de 2012 03:14:54 UTC+1, Ikai Lan escribió:

*Hi App Engine Developers,

Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this
announcement.

Happy coding!

- Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-03-30 Thread Daniel Florey

Too late

On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:02:21 PM UTC+2, j wrote:

 -1 for moving to stackoverflow. Why do we need another site? I have been 
 using Google groups for years, no issues so far. What do we get by moving 
 to stakoverflow? Does it work on Android tablet or something else that we 
 need to know that is so special about it?

 On Monday, February 13, 2012 3:49:47 PM UTC-5, Ikai Lan wrote:

 Supercobra,

 I share your concerns about streamlining the user experience. As it 
 stands, the user experience isn't great: you have groups, StackOverflow, 
 billing issues forms, abuse forms, the public issues tracker, Google 
 Groups, Reddit ... I could probably go on. The move to StackOverflow isn't 
 necessarily  making things more complicated, as our documentation will to 
 updated to reflect that it is the primary destination for code questions - 
 and in exchange, the Python/Java groups will be placed into read-only. 
 We've done this with other products at Google such as Android and 
 experienced overwhelming success - not only will App Engine Java questions 
 be exposed to developers following App Engine, they will also be exposed to 
 tens of thousands of Java developers on StackOverflow. And the tooling! The 
 tooling will allow us to identify where we need better learning resources, 
 or where the product needs improvements. We could certainly build this 
 ourselves, but that detracts from our ability to answer questions, launch 
 features, and improve the documentation. There are always tradeoffs in 
 those scenarios. 

 Hope this helps,

 --
 Ikai Lan 
 Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
 plus.ikailan.com



 On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Gregory D'alesandre 
 gr...@google.comwrote:

 Hi Mos,

 Google is absolutely committed to App Engine and part of the reason we 
 are moving the Java/Python groups to StackOverflow is to have better, more 
 consolidated answers to questions.  While it might be possible for Google 
 to build its own tool tailed to questions and answers, we really like 
 StackOverflow in part because it is where a lot of developers go in general 
 to get answers to questions.  As I've talked about on this group before, we 
 currently have essentially 2 support options: Premier Accounts (for 
 $500/month) or StackOverflow / Groups where the community can support it 
 and Googlers will sometimes answer questions.  The first has an SLA and the 
 second does not.  So, in response to Google investing in better enterprise 
 support, I hope that answers the question.  

 In terms of the concern that this means we are trying to deprecate App 
 Engine.  I can honestly and frankly say that there are no plans to do so, 
 quite the opposite, we are growing!  Right now we are trying to consolidate 
 a variety of places to get answers into 1 to improve how people get 
 questions answered.  We are keeping this group (google-appengine) because 
 it is a great place for discussions, but when it comes to asking a question 
 and getting an answer, we believe StackOverflow is a product more suited to 
 do this.

 Johan and Ikai both work on the App Engine team so their word is as 
 official as mine, but I figured hearing it from more people might help.

 Greg D'Alesandre
 Senior Product Manager, Google App Engine

 PS - Nice app Andrin, I'm already signed up! :)


 On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Mos mosa...@googlemail.com wrote:

 +111
 absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from 
 Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding 
 adequate support options).

 Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to 
 burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
 If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented StackOverflow for 
 Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
 And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based 
 StackOverflow, that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?

 That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better 
 enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.

 I hope I'm wrong


 On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes 
 superco...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places 
 and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard 
 time knowing about this.

 App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer 
 support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions 
 answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use. 
 Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for 
 $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So 
 desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if 
 they 
 make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and 
 sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-03-28 Thread j

-1 for moving to stackoverflow. Why do we need another site? I have been 
using Google groups for years, no issues so far. What do we get by moving 
to stakoverflow? Does it work on Android tablet or something else that we 
need to know that is so special about it?

On Monday, February 13, 2012 3:49:47 PM UTC-5, Ikai Lan wrote:

 Supercobra,

 I share your concerns about streamlining the user experience. As it 
 stands, the user experience isn't great: you have groups, StackOverflow, 
 billing issues forms, abuse forms, the public issues tracker, Google 
 Groups, Reddit ... I could probably go on. The move to StackOverflow isn't 
 necessarily  making things more complicated, as our documentation will to 
 updated to reflect that it is the primary destination for code questions - 
 and in exchange, the Python/Java groups will be placed into read-only. 
 We've done this with other products at Google such as Android and 
 experienced overwhelming success - not only will App Engine Java questions 
 be exposed to developers following App Engine, they will also be exposed to 
 tens of thousands of Java developers on StackOverflow. And the tooling! The 
 tooling will allow us to identify where we need better learning resources, 
 or where the product needs improvements. We could certainly build this 
 ourselves, but that detracts from our ability to answer questions, launch 
 features, and improve the documentation. There are always tradeoffs in 
 those scenarios. 

 Hope this helps,

 --
 Ikai Lan 
 Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
 plus.ikailan.com



 On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Gregory D'alesandre gr...@google.comwrote:

 Hi Mos,

 Google is absolutely committed to App Engine and part of the reason we 
 are moving the Java/Python groups to StackOverflow is to have better, more 
 consolidated answers to questions.  While it might be possible for Google 
 to build its own tool tailed to questions and answers, we really like 
 StackOverflow in part because it is where a lot of developers go in general 
 to get answers to questions.  As I've talked about on this group before, we 
 currently have essentially 2 support options: Premier Accounts (for 
 $500/month) or StackOverflow / Groups where the community can support it 
 and Googlers will sometimes answer questions.  The first has an SLA and the 
 second does not.  So, in response to Google investing in better enterprise 
 support, I hope that answers the question.  

 In terms of the concern that this means we are trying to deprecate App 
 Engine.  I can honestly and frankly say that there are no plans to do so, 
 quite the opposite, we are growing!  Right now we are trying to consolidate 
 a variety of places to get answers into 1 to improve how people get 
 questions answered.  We are keeping this group (google-appengine) because 
 it is a great place for discussions, but when it comes to asking a question 
 and getting an answer, we believe StackOverflow is a product more suited to 
 do this.

 Johan and Ikai both work on the App Engine team so their word is as 
 official as mine, but I figured hearing it from more people might help.

 Greg D'Alesandre
 Senior Product Manager, Google App Engine

 PS - Nice app Andrin, I'm already signed up! :)


 On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Mos mosa...@googlemail.com wrote:

 +111
 absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from 
 Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding 
 adequate support options).

 Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to 
 burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
 If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented StackOverflow for 
 Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
 And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based 
 StackOverflow, that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?

 That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better 
 enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.

 I hope I'm wrong


 On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes 
 superco...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places 
 and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard 
 time knowing about this.

 App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer 
 support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions 
 answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use. 
 Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for 
 $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So 
 desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if 
 they 
 make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and 
 sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time, 
 Google Engineers help too.

 Google App Engine team says, 'well support

RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-26 Thread Brandon Wirtz

 AdWords communities (6 languages) also just moved to a 3rd party platform:


That's an SEO play. Adwords is tired of all the trash talked about them in
their forum ranking so highly because it is hosted on a Google Domain. 



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For more options, visit this group at 
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-13 Thread Johan Euphrosine

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for your feedback, I understand your concerns about finding the
right support channel when your project overlap more than one Google
Technology and I agree that's something that should be improved.

Until now we relied on silo'ed Google groups (per language, per
technologies) and part of the move to Stack Overflow is to try to find
a solution to scale community support more easily for App Engine
development questions that span across multiple technologies.

By using multiple tags for their questions, developers are now able to
target more than one community: you can see an example of related tags
on the dedicated page for each tags:

http://stackoverflow.com/tags/google-app-engine/topusers
python× 3541
java× 2035
gae-datastore× 1084
django× 644
gwt× 387

http://stackoverflow.com/tags/gwt/topusers
java× 2152
javascript× 446
google-app-engine× 387
eclipse× 325
css× 256

http://stackoverflow.com/tags/google-maps/topusers
javascript× 2196
android× 1383
google-maps-api-3× 1273
jquery× 595
google× 532

http://stackoverflow.com/tags/android/topusers
java× 18131
android-layout× 5143
listview× 4293
eclipse× 3615
sqlite× 3484

Hope that answers some of your concerns about the move.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Daniel Florey daniel.flo...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,
 I've been thinking about the decision to move to SO for some more time and
 I'd like to give a more general feedback.

 We are developing apps for the Google ecosystem using the Google dev stack
 (gwt, gae, galgwt, gdata api, google apps marketplace, chrome webstore etc.)
 See: http://www.floreysoft.net/download/SS377-1109_floreysoft_v1.pdf
 Beside our premier account for the apps running on our own domain we also
 have ~2000 clients running dedicated installations of our tools on app
 engine, many of them with billing enabled. So most of our generated revenue
 goes directly to the GAE team ;-)

 As we are using many tools from Google, not just GAE, my perspective on the
 decision to move to SO may be slightly different than the GAE team's point
 of view:
 In my daily life I already have to use different channels to get support
 from Google:
 - For GAE related issues I've to use the Enterprise Support Portal using
 Salesforce.com
 - Using ~20 Google groups for the other api's/projects
 - Issue trackers for the different projects
 - Mail/Chat with Google Dev Advocates
 - Blogs/Google+

 In general the support is good as most developers are very responsive. My
 main concern is that the different teams / projects are working quite
 isolated.
 Working in smaller teams of course is more efficient and more fun, but when
 it comes to support I would prefer a single point of contact.
 It would be perfect to be able to address any issue to the Enterprise Portal
 (or any other channel) and to trigger some kind of internal dispatch to the
 proper team.
 Let me give you an example:
 We are using the Google Java Stack (Google Plugin/GWT/GAE) to create our
 apps for multiple locales/browsers, GWT generates dozens of permutations of
 our app. As GAE only supports 150mb project size, we are hitting this limit
 - as you have to divide this limit by the number of permutations to get the
 real max app size. It would be possible to e.g. serve gwt fragments from
 the blobstore, but this would involve all the different teams.
 I've been totally lost to find the appropriate channel to communicate this
 issue as every tool itself is working fine, just the combination of them
 causes the pain.

 I wonder if there is anybody responsible for taking care of the big picture
 of the google dev tools. There are some indicators that there may be someone
 with the big plan (e.g. new api console, streamlined documentation), but
 there are many overlapping developments and new projects not really linked
 into each other (e.g. gitkit/appengine user service) that I'm still
 confused.
 In general decisions regarding how to provide support should be made on a
 higher level. If Google decides to use SO as the primary channel for
 answering questions of developers, at least all projects providing dev tools
 should use SO.
 Don't get me wrong: I still believe that the most brilliant minds are
 working for Google, but as Google rapidly grows, I have the feeling that
 especially the enterprise support is not yet adequate...and deciding on a
 per-team basis which channels to establish is the wrong move IMO.

 Daniel

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Developer Programs Engineer
Google Developer Relations

--

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-13 Thread Mos

+111
absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from
Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding
adequate support options).

Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to burn.
It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented StackOverflow for
Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based StackOverflow,
that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?

That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better
enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.

I hope I'm wrong

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes superco...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places and
 subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard time
 knowing about this.

 App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer
 support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions
 answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use.
 Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for
 $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So
 desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if they
 make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and
 sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time,
 Google Engineers help too.

 Google App Engine team says, 'well support is best effort around here or
 get a Premier Account'. I think this is not the way to do it. Together with
 Google engineers, WE make Google products what they are because of our deep
 involvement.

 This lack of support is general across most Google products. Our company
 uses many Google products that are now business critical for us: Google
 Apps for Business, Checkout, Analytics, and more. With all of those, if you
 have a problem, well, it's your problem because you cannot contact anyone.

 So is it hard to provide good support? Not for every company. We use
 Amazon S3 and Cloud Service. We are a little tiny customers for them. The
 other day we had a problem that brought down our SaaS app. Emergency. What
 do you do when that happens? Well, simple. On Amazon AWS console, click on
 'call me I need help now' button and a human calls you within a minute.

 So Google: use a tiny portion of the immense net revenue to add more
 community and product support engineers. I bet that will improve the bottom
 line even further.

 One last BIG concern. One of the things that first get dropped when a
 product is going to be retired (i.e. killed) is developer and community
 support. Java and Python appengine discussion groups are being deprecated
 and dev support is moved to Stack Overflow. That does not sound like App
 Engine is going forward to me. More like a huge red flag. Is App Engine
 business in danger?

 Telling Google users to use Stack Overflow is the equivalent of displaying
 a big sign on Google Groups home page saying use Stack Overflow, it's much
 better than what we have.

 As other users suggested, Google should improve this forum software and
 make it work more like Stack Overflow and not move there...




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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-13 Thread Andrin von Rechenberg

About Google using StackOverflow and not building it itself:
If you are working at Google Scale, you don't build StackOverflow in 3
months.
If you are a StartUp, you build a primitive version of StackOverflow in a
day and launch.
If you are working at Google it will take you at least 12 month to launch
something like
StackOverflow. Google's Product are so well implemented, tested,
productionized and
legally sound that it just takes a shit load of time getting something out
of the door.
What's wrong with using well established, well working 3rd party software?

About long time commitment:
GAE is out of beta. This means long-time commitment.
See:
http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/11/app-engine-160-out-of-preview-release.html
Quote: *Google is making a long term investment in App Engine!*

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Mos mosa...@googlemail.com wrote:

 +111
 absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from
 Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding
 adequate support options).

 Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to
 burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
 If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented StackOverflow for
 Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
 And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based StackOverflow,
 that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?

 That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better
 enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.

 I hope I'm wrong


 On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes 
 superco...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places
 and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard
 time knowing about this.

 App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer
 support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions
 answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use.
 Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for
 $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So
 desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if they
 make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and
 sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time,
 Google Engineers help too.

 Google App Engine team says, 'well support is best effort around here or
 get a Premier Account'. I think this is not the way to do it. Together with
 Google engineers, WE make Google products what they are because of our deep
 involvement.

 This lack of support is general across most Google products. Our company
 uses many Google products that are now business critical for us: Google
 Apps for Business, Checkout, Analytics, and more. With all of those, if you
 have a problem, well, it's your problem because you cannot contact anyone.

 So is it hard to provide good support? Not for every company. We use
 Amazon S3 and Cloud Service. We are a little tiny customers for them. The
 other day we had a problem that brought down our SaaS app. Emergency. What
 do you do when that happens? Well, simple. On Amazon AWS console, click on
 'call me I need help now' button and a human calls you within a minute.

 So Google: use a tiny portion of the immense net revenue to add more
 community and product support engineers. I bet that will improve the bottom
 line even further.

 One last BIG concern. One of the things that first get dropped when a
 product is going to be retired (i.e. killed) is developer and community
 support. Java and Python appengine discussion groups are being deprecated
 and dev support is moved to Stack Overflow. That does not sound like App
 Engine is going forward to me. More like a huge red flag. Is App Engine
 business in danger?

 Telling Google users to use Stack Overflow is the equivalent of
 displaying a big sign on Google Groups home page saying use Stack
 Overflow, it's much better than what we have.

 As other users suggested, Google should improve this forum software and
 make it work more like Stack Overflow and not move there...




  --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
 Google App Engine group.
 To view this discussion on the web visit
 https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/-CMqxkvEya4J.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-13 Thread Mos

 What's wrong with using well established, well working 3rd party software?

Check this thread for arguments. Summary:

 - People need to check 2 different places/systems to find the official GAE
support-groups  (confusing; especially for newcomers)
 - Getting answers from Google stuff directly will be even worse because
it's outsourced and not owned by Google
 - Faith in GAE is reduced if the official support forums are outsourced to
the community.
 - Stackoverflow is a good format for QA  but bad if there are discussions
about Java or Python regarding
Features/Roadmaps/Bug-Discussions/Reminder/Collaboration or what ever.
 - Google is not able to control the support workflow anymore   (usually
they like to have everything important in their influence, don't they?)

The advantage of StackOverflow is the better structure for question and
answers. That's for sure!
But as people suggested, Google could improve this forum and make it a
little more StackOverflowish.
(I don't believe this would take 12 month, even in a big company like
Google. It's still moving very fast, isn't it?)

Or stay with the forum, add a FAQ-Posting for recurring questions and
always link to StackOverflow if the answer is there.
Many other software support forums are doing it this way
And by the way:  Most people that have a GAE problem or question are
searching for it on Google. If the answer is on StackOverflow they
get it. Mostly ranked higher then these forum postings. I don't think there
is a big problem with redundant questions on this forum.
The problem seems to be another one

Cheers
Mos


On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
and...@miumeet.comwrote:

 About Google using StackOverflow and not building it itself:
 If you are working at Google Scale, you don't build StackOverflow in 3
 months.
 If you are a StartUp, you build a primitive version of StackOverflow in a
 day and launch.
 If you are working at Google it will take you at least 12 month to launch
 something like
 StackOverflow. Google's Product are so well implemented, tested,
 productionized and
 legally sound that it just takes a shit load of time getting something out
 of the door.
 What's wrong with using well established, well working 3rd party software?

 About long time commitment:
 GAE is out of beta. This means long-time commitment.
 See:
 http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/11/app-engine-160-out-of-preview-release.html
 Quote: *Google is making a long term investment in App Engine!*

 Cheers,
 -Andrin

 On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Mos mosa...@googlemail.com wrote:

 +111
 absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from
 Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding
 adequate support options).

 Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to
 burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
 If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented StackOverflow for
 Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
 And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based
 StackOverflow, that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?

 That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better
 enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.

 I hope I'm wrong


 On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes 
 superco...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places
 and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard
 time knowing about this.

 App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer
 support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions
 answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use.
 Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for
 $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So
 desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if they
 make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and
 sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time,
 Google Engineers help too.

 Google App Engine team says, 'well support is best effort around here or
 get a Premier Account'. I think this is not the way to do it. Together with
 Google engineers, WE make Google products what they are because of our deep
 involvement.

 This lack of support is general across most Google products. Our company
 uses many Google products that are now business critical for us: Google
 Apps for Business, Checkout, Analytics, and more. With all of those, if you
 have a problem, well, it's your problem because you cannot contact anyone.

 So is it hard to provide good support? Not for every company. We use
 Amazon S3 and Cloud Service. We are a little tiny customers for them. The
 other day we had a problem that brought down our SaaS app. Emergency. What
 do you do when that happens? Well, simple. On

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-13 Thread Gregory D'alesandre

Hi Mos,

Google is absolutely committed to App Engine and part of the reason we are
moving the Java/Python groups to StackOverflow is to have better, more
consolidated answers to questions.  While it might be possible for Google
to build its own tool tailed to questions and answers, we really like
StackOverflow in part because it is where a lot of developers go in general
to get answers to questions.  As I've talked about on this group before, we
currently have essentially 2 support options: Premier Accounts (for
$500/month) or StackOverflow / Groups where the community can support it
and Googlers will sometimes answer questions.  The first has an SLA and the
second does not.  So, in response to Google investing in better enterprise
support, I hope that answers the question.

In terms of the concern that this means we are trying to deprecate App
Engine.  I can honestly and frankly say that there are no plans to do so,
quite the opposite, we are growing!  Right now we are trying to consolidate
a variety of places to get answers into 1 to improve how people get
questions answered.  We are keeping this group (google-appengine) because
it is a great place for discussions, but when it comes to asking a question
and getting an answer, we believe StackOverflow is a product more suited to
do this.

Johan and Ikai both work on the App Engine team so their word is as
official as mine, but I figured hearing it from more people might help.

Greg D'Alesandre
Senior Product Manager, Google App Engine

PS - Nice app Andrin, I'm already signed up! :)

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Mos mosa...@googlemail.com wrote:

 +111
 absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from
 Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding
 adequate support options).

 Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to
 burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
 If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented StackOverflow for
 Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
 And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based StackOverflow,
 that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?

 That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better
 enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.

 I hope I'm wrong


 On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes 
 superco...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places
 and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard
 time knowing about this.

 App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer
 support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions
 answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use.
 Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for
 $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So
 desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if they
 make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and
 sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time,
 Google Engineers help too.

 Google App Engine team says, 'well support is best effort around here or
 get a Premier Account'. I think this is not the way to do it. Together with
 Google engineers, WE make Google products what they are because of our deep
 involvement.

 This lack of support is general across most Google products. Our company
 uses many Google products that are now business critical for us: Google
 Apps for Business, Checkout, Analytics, and more. With all of those, if you
 have a problem, well, it's your problem because you cannot contact anyone.

 So is it hard to provide good support? Not for every company. We use
 Amazon S3 and Cloud Service. We are a little tiny customers for them. The
 other day we had a problem that brought down our SaaS app. Emergency. What
 do you do when that happens? Well, simple. On Amazon AWS console, click on
 'call me I need help now' button and a human calls you within a minute.

 So Google: use a tiny portion of the immense net revenue to add more
 community and product support engineers. I bet that will improve the bottom
 line even further.

 One last BIG concern. One of the things that first get dropped when a
 product is going to be retired (i.e. killed) is developer and community
 support. Java and Python appengine discussion groups are being deprecated
 and dev support is moved to Stack Overflow. That does not sound like App
 Engine is going forward to me. More like a huge red flag. Is App Engine
 business in danger?

 Telling Google users to use Stack Overflow is the equivalent of
 displaying a big sign on Google Groups home page saying use Stack
 Overflow, it's much better than what we have.

 As other users suggested, Google should improve this forum software and
 make it work more like Stack Overflow and not

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-13 Thread Ikai Lan (Google)

Supercobra,

I share your concerns about streamlining the user experience. As it stands,
the user experience isn't great: you have groups, StackOverflow, billing
issues forms, abuse forms, the public issues tracker, Google Groups, Reddit
... I could probably go on. The move to StackOverflow isn't necessarily
 making things more complicated, as our documentation will to updated to
reflect that it is the primary destination for code questions - and in
exchange, the Python/Java groups will be placed into read-only. We've done
this with other products at Google such as Android and experienced
overwhelming success - not only will App Engine Java questions be exposed
to developers following App Engine, they will also be exposed to tens of
thousands of Java developers on StackOverflow. And the tooling! The tooling
will allow us to identify where we need better learning resources, or where
the product needs improvements. We could certainly build this ourselves,
but that detracts from our ability to answer questions, launch features,
and improve the documentation. There are always tradeoffs in those
scenarios.

Hope this helps,

--
Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
plus.ikailan.com



On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Gregory D'alesandre gr...@google.comwrote:

 Hi Mos,

 Google is absolutely committed to App Engine and part of the reason we are
 moving the Java/Python groups to StackOverflow is to have better, more
 consolidated answers to questions.  While it might be possible for Google
 to build its own tool tailed to questions and answers, we really like
 StackOverflow in part because it is where a lot of developers go in general
 to get answers to questions.  As I've talked about on this group before, we
 currently have essentially 2 support options: Premier Accounts (for
 $500/month) or StackOverflow / Groups where the community can support it
 and Googlers will sometimes answer questions.  The first has an SLA and the
 second does not.  So, in response to Google investing in better enterprise
 support, I hope that answers the question.

 In terms of the concern that this means we are trying to deprecate App
 Engine.  I can honestly and frankly say that there are no plans to do so,
 quite the opposite, we are growing!  Right now we are trying to consolidate
 a variety of places to get answers into 1 to improve how people get
 questions answered.  We are keeping this group (google-appengine) because
 it is a great place for discussions, but when it comes to asking a question
 and getting an answer, we believe StackOverflow is a product more suited to
 do this.

 Johan and Ikai both work on the App Engine team so their word is as
 official as mine, but I figured hearing it from more people might help.

 Greg D'Alesandre
 Senior Product Manager, Google App Engine

 PS - Nice app Andrin, I'm already signed up! :)


 On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Mos mosa...@googlemail.com wrote:

 +111
 absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from
 Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding
 adequate support options).

 Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to
 burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
 If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented StackOverflow for
 Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
 And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based
 StackOverflow, that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?

 That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better
 enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.

 I hope I'm wrong


 On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes 
 superco...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places
 and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard
 time knowing about this.

 App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer
 support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions
 answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use.
 Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for
 $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So
 desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if they
 make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and
 sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time,
 Google Engineers help too.

 Google App Engine team says, 'well support is best effort around here or
 get a Premier Account'. I think this is not the way to do it. Together with
 Google engineers, WE make Google products what they are because of our deep
 involvement.

 This lack of support is general across most Google products. Our company
 uses many Google products that are now business critical for us: Google
 Apps for Business, Checkout, Analytics, and more. With all of

RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-13 Thread Brandon Wirtz

Ikai,

 

Supercobra

 

I want to be in the meeting where you present to your manager the reaction
to the news of the move to StackOverflow.

 

Well, over all I think the most of the community is behind it, but
Supercobra, and Brandon, the guy in the mermaid costume, have expressed some
concerns

 

Really? Did you ask G.I. Joe and Batman what they think?

 

 

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-13 Thread supercobra

 “Well, over all I think the most of the community is behind it, but 
 Supercobra, and
 Brandon, the guy in the mermaid costume, have expressed some concerns”

 “Really? Did you ask G.I. Joe and Batman what they think?“

supercobra's opinion is more important than batman's, because batman
can't code all that well anyway

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-10 Thread Daniel Florey

Am I the only one using the new Groups interface??
Right now everything is perfect for me as I can see at first sight how many 
new topics have been discussed in all my ~20 Google related groups.
Is there a similar view in SO? 

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-10 Thread Andrin von Rechenberg

Hey guys

*Short version:*
Problem solved, just subscribe to:
google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
You will receive every new question  answer in your favorite email client.

*Long version:*
I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
for being part of the community.

So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com

Of course it runs on AppEngine.

It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
subscribe to super heavy tags like java...

I'll open-source the source code soonish.

Cheers,
-Andrin


On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim michele.trimar...@gmail.comwrote:

 I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
 for this.
 For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
 couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
 Michele
 [Systempuntoout]

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-10 Thread Andrin von Rechenberg

Oh one more thing: You are on the bleeding edge if you subscribe. There are
no unittests.

I'm adding in-reply-to  references headers now.
However in AppEngine I dont know the Message-ID, so I'm just going to use
the
stackoverflow id. Will that help? Does anyone know?

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
and...@miumeet.comwrote:

 Hey guys

 *Short version:*
 Problem solved, just subscribe to:
 google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
  You will receive every new question  answer in your favorite email
 client.

 *Long version:*
 I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
 for being part of the community.

 So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
 of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
  This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
 http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com

 Of course it runs on AppEngine.

 It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
 subscribe to super heavy tags like java...

 I'll open-source the source code soonish.

 Cheers,
 -Andrin


 On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim michele.trimar...@gmail.comwrote:

 I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
 for this.
 For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
 couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
 Michele
 [Systempuntoout]

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-10 Thread Andreas

andrin this looks and sounds amazing! thx

On Feb 10, 2012, at 10:48 AM, Andrin von Rechenberg wrote:

 Oh one more thing: You are on the bleeding edge if you subscribe. There are 
 no unittests.
 
 I'm adding in-reply-to  references headers now.
 However in AppEngine I dont know the Message-ID, so I'm just going to use the
 stackoverflow id. Will that help? Does anyone know?
 
 On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg and...@miumeet.com 
 wrote:
 Hey guys
 
 Short version:
 Problem solved, just subscribe to: 
 google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
 You will receive every new question  answer in your favorite email client.
 
 Long version:
 I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
 for being part of the community.
 
 So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
 of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
 This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
 http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com
 
 Of course it runs on AppEngine.
 
 It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
 subscribe to super heavy tags like java...
 
 I'll open-source the source code soonish.
 
 Cheers,
 -Andrin
 
 
 On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim michele.trimar...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
 for this.
 For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
 couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
 Michele
 [Systempuntoout]
 
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-10 Thread Andrin von Rechenberg

Thanks.

I know that sometimes the message order is screwed up.
The problem is that if a reply is posted to a question that
the tool hasnt seen so far, it sends the question and the
reply at the same time and the reply arrives before the
question in the google groups. Typical race condition,
but with email :)

I will delay the sending of a reply if the tool hasn't
seen the question before. But I'm off drinking with
the guys now. im already late. Anyways, the problem
will fix itself, once the tool knows all questions, which
will be soonish I hope.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Andreas a.schmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 andrin this looks and sounds amazing! thx

 On Feb 10, 2012, at 10:48 AM, Andrin von Rechenberg wrote:

 Oh one more thing: You are on the bleeding edge if you subscribe. There
 are no unittests.

 I'm adding in-reply-to  references headers now.
 However in AppEngine I dont know the Message-ID, so I'm just going to use
 the
 stackoverflow id. Will that help? Does anyone know?

 On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg and...@miumeet.com
  wrote:

 Hey guys

 *Short version:*
 Problem solved, just subscribe to:
 google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
  You will receive every new question  answer in your favorite email
 client.

 *Long version:*
 I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
 for being part of the community.

 So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
 of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
  This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
 http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com

 Of course it runs on AppEngine.

 It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
 subscribe to super heavy tags like java...

 I'll open-source the source code soonish.

 Cheers,
 -Andrin


 On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim michele.trimar...@gmail.comwrote:

 I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
 for this.
 For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
 couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
 Michele
 [Systempuntoout]

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-10 Thread Francois Masurel

Great work Andrin, I just joined the group.

I noticed that lots of messages are not directly related to GAE but are 
rather about applications running on App Engine.

Time will tell if SO was the right solution for GAE languages groups.

May be you could create specialized groups like 
google-appengine-java-stackoverf...@googlegroups.comgoogle-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
 :-)

Thanx again.

Francois

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-10 Thread Andrin von Rechenberg

If there is a tag for that you can create a mail forward for it on
stack-over-mail.appspot.com :)
Its generic...

Cheers,
-Andrin
On Feb 10, 2012 11:28 PM, Francois Masurel f.masu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Great work Andrin, I just joined the group.

 I noticed that lots of messages are not directly related to GAE but are
 rather about applications running on App Engine.

 Time will tell if SO was the right solution for GAE languages groups.

 May be you could create specialized groups like google-appengine-java-**
 stackoverf...@googlegroups.comgoogle-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
  :-)

 Thanx again.

 Francois

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-10 Thread Robert Kluin

Awesome!  You stole what was going to be an evening project this weekend.  ;)

Looking forwards to checking this out.


Robert



On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:46, Andrin von Rechenberg and...@miumeet.com wrote:
 Hey guys

 Short version:
 Problem solved, just subscribe
 to: google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
 You will receive every new question  answer in your favorite email client.

 Long version:
 I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
 for being part of the community.

 So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
 of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
 This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
 http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com

 Of course it runs on AppEngine.

 It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
 subscribe to super heavy tags like java...

 I'll open-source the source code soonish.

 Cheers,
 -Andrin


 On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim michele.trimar...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
 for this.
 For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
 couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
 Michele
 [Systempuntoout]

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-09 Thread Jeff Schnitzer

What's a good workflow for dealing with stackoverflow that doesn't involve
going and checking on the actual website?  If it doesn't show up in my
inbox or RSS reader (or sometimes hackernews) it might as well not exist to
me.

So far getting an email digest for the google-app-engine just does not cut
it.  My workflow here in Gmail is reasonable - I have a list of all the
appengine-related emails stored in a label, with filters that automatically
star messages a few choice keywords.  The stackoverflow digest not only
evades my priority filter but actually forces me to read through a lengthy
email.  Not going to happen.

Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?

Jeff

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-09 Thread Johan Euphrosine

Hi Jeff,

You can also check this Chrome extension which tracks pending
questions for a list of tags:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bnnkhapbhkejookmhgpgaikfdoegkmdp

Currently the lowest level of granularly for email is a digest every
15 min, monitoring tag RSS feeds with an email gateway (built on App
Engine!) might be a good way to get instant email notification for
individual question.

There seems to be a few projects already doing that:
https://github.com/jmhobbs/RSS-Engine

Let us know if you would be interested by setting up something like
this for the community.

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Schnitzer j...@infohazard.org wrote:
 What's a good workflow for dealing with stackoverflow that doesn't involve
 going and checking on the actual website?  If it doesn't show up in my inbox
 or RSS reader (or sometimes hackernews) it might as well not exist to me.

 So far getting an email digest for the google-app-engine just does not cut
 it.  My workflow here in Gmail is reasonable - I have a list of all the
 appengine-related emails stored in a label, with filters that automatically
 star messages a few choice keywords.  The stackoverflow digest not only
 evades my priority filter but actually forces me to read through a lengthy
 email.  Not going to happen.

 Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?

 Jeff

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-- 
Johan Euphrosine (proppy)
Developer Programs Engineer
Google Developer Relations

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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-09 Thread Brandon Wirtz

Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?

 

I have my personal assistant read all the messages and flag the important
ones, and occasionally post my canned response if I have posted the same
thing more than once.  Probably getting your PA to do the same would be
good, at least until he/she can build a set of filters to do all of that for
you.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-09 Thread Jeff Schnitzer

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Brandon Wirtz drak...@digerat.com wrote:

 Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?

 ** **

 I have my personal assistant read all the messages and flag the important
 ones, and occasionally post my canned response if I have posted the same
 thing more than once.  Probably getting your PA to do the same would be
 good, at least until he/she can build a set of filters to do all of that
 for you.


I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
wearing the wrong outfit :-)

I'll try adding the tags to Google Reader.  The Chrome Plugin is
interesting but it's still outside my normal workflow.  I have to admit
that I have mixed feelings about this particular change, although I can see
the greater good.

Jeff

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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-09 Thread Brandon Wirtz

 

I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
wearing the wrong outfit :-)

 

Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn't do
so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in my
posts on days Ivy (PA) isn't in the office

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-09 Thread Ikai Lan (Google)

Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find that
my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times, right?).
I don't want to miss your messages because the more you post, the more
ammunition I can collect for trolling you =P.

Jeff, a few of us are using RSS to track new questions. Example feed URL:

http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=google-app-enginesort=newest

--
Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
plus.ikailan.com



On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Brandon Wirtz drak...@digerat.com wrote:

 ** **

 I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
 wearing the wrong outfit :-)

 ** **

 Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn’t
 do so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in
 my posts on days Ivy (PA) isn’t in the office

 --
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-09 Thread Robert Kluin

This is actually my biggest complaint about SO as well.  It is far
outside my usual workflow.  I also prefer the gmail groups
interface.  I guess I need to try the RSS stuff, but I don't
currently watch any RSS feeds -- so this is outside my normal flow as
well.



Robert


On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:02, Jeff Schnitzer j...@infohazard.org wrote:
 What's a good workflow for dealing with stackoverflow that doesn't involve
 going and checking on the actual website?  If it doesn't show up in my inbox
 or RSS reader (or sometimes hackernews) it might as well not exist to me.

 So far getting an email digest for the google-app-engine just does not cut
 it.  My workflow here in Gmail is reasonable - I have a list of all the
 appengine-related emails stored in a label, with filters that automatically
 star messages a few choice keywords.  The stackoverflow digest not only
 evades my priority filter but actually forces me to read through a lengthy
 email.  Not going to happen.

 Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?

 Jeff

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-09 Thread Jeff Schnitzer

I don't mind the font, but Brandon whatever you're doing now shows a
vertical bar to the left of your content exactly the same as Gmail formats
quoted content.  I keep going through your posts and wondering where the
new text is only to realize that it is masquerading as quoted content.
 Example:

https://img.skitch.com/20120209-nsxbc5tuqf58fmfc4nxmhxp8fs.jpg

Jeff


On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Ikai Lan (Google) ika...@google.com wrote:

 Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find that
 my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times, right?).
 I don't want to miss your messages because the more you post, the more
 ammunition I can collect for trolling you =P.

 Jeff, a few of us are using RSS to track new questions. Example feed URL:

 http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=google-app-enginesort=newest

 --
 Ikai Lan
 Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
 plus.ikailan.com



 On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Brandon Wirtz drak...@digerat.com wrote:

 ** **

 I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
 wearing the wrong outfit :-)

 ** **

 Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn’t
 do so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in
 my posts on days Ivy (PA) isn’t in the office

 --
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-09 Thread Johan Euphrosine

I think that might be due to:
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:55 PM, Jeff Schnitzer j...@infohazard.org wrote:
 I don't mind the font, but Brandon whatever you're doing now shows a
 vertical bar to the left of your content exactly the same as Gmail formats
 quoted content.  I keep going through your posts and wondering where the new
 text is only to realize that it is masquerading as quoted content.  Example:

 https://img.skitch.com/20120209-nsxbc5tuqf58fmfc4nxmhxp8fs.jpg

 Jeff



 On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Ikai Lan (Google) ika...@google.com wrote:

 Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find that
 my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times, right?).
 I don't want to miss your messages because the more you post, the more
 ammunition I can collect for trolling you =P.

 Jeff, a few of us are using RSS to track new questions. Example feed URL:

 http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=google-app-enginesort=newest

 --
 Ikai Lan
 Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
 plus.ikailan.com



 On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Brandon Wirtz drak...@digerat.com wrote:



 I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
  wearing the wrong outfit :-)



 Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn’t
 do so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in
 my posts on days Ivy (PA) isn’t in the office

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-09 Thread Robert Kluin

I also started noticing that on Brandon's posts a day or two ago I think.



Robert


On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 14:55, Jeff Schnitzer j...@infohazard.org wrote:
 I don't mind the font, but Brandon whatever you're doing now shows a
 vertical bar to the left of your content exactly the same as Gmail formats
 quoted content.  I keep going through your posts and wondering where the new
 text is only to realize that it is masquerading as quoted content.  Example:

 https://img.skitch.com/20120209-nsxbc5tuqf58fmfc4nxmhxp8fs.jpg

 Jeff



 On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Ikai Lan (Google) ika...@google.com wrote:

 Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find that
 my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times, right?).
 I don't want to miss your messages because the more you post, the more
 ammunition I can collect for trolling you =P.

 Jeff, a few of us are using RSS to track new questions. Example feed URL:

 http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=google-app-enginesort=newest

 --
 Ikai Lan
 Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
 plus.ikailan.com



 On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Brandon Wirtz drak...@digerat.com wrote:



 I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
  wearing the wrong outfit :-)



 Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn’t
 do so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in
 my posts on days Ivy (PA) isn’t in the office

 --
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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-09 Thread Brandon Wirtz

  Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find
  that my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times,
 right?).

I live in outlook, I'm trying to pick settings that work for all of you and
for me internally... and things get messed up when I reply in HTML Mode.

But the fix I had pissed off the Azure forum guys.

I am considering setting up an email address just for GAE, but I like that
right now it all dumps in with my other cloud forums... Oh well.



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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-08 Thread Daniel Florey

Hi,
I did not want to offend anyone. 
I just think it would make perfectly sense to improve Groups to allow users 
to rate posts and display the best answer on top etc. 
Especially if you take into account that Groups is also used as the Google 
Apps help system.
We are using almost all Google products actively including many of the dev 
tools and I had the impression that since introducing G+ Google recently 
tried to streamline the offerings. 
There are also many way I can think of to improve the Groups experience by 
adding some G+ stuff - which is very unlikely to happen in SO.

I know that the decision is made and I'll have to get used to SO, but I 
hope it will get reverted anytime soon - as it happend to the old new 
Google Help system ;-)

Cheers,
Daniel

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-08 Thread Johan Euphrosine

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Daniel Florey daniel.flo...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi,
 I did not want to offend anyone.


Hey, you are not offending anyone: discussion is always welcome here.


 I just think it would make perfectly sense to improve Groups to allow
 users to rate posts and display the best answer on top etc.
 Especially if you take into account that Groups is also used as the Google
 Apps help system.


Yes, I agree those would be very nice feature to have in groups.


 We are using almost all Google products actively including many of the dev
 tools and I had the impression that since introducing G+ Google recently
 tried to streamline the offerings.


That's exactly what we are trying to do by doing this, streamlining the
developer experience by having a place for each thing:
- Want to start a technical discussion, go to the General Group
- Want to ask a development question, go to Stack Overflow
- Want to report a bug, go to the Public issue tracker

Instead of having things scattered across multiple groups, and multiple
platforms with a lot of duplicate along the way


 There are also many way I can think of to improve the Groups experience by
 adding some G+ stuff - which is very unlikely to happen in SO.



In fact a Share on Google+ button recently poped on Stack Overflow :)



 I know that the decision is made and I'll have to get used to SO, but I
 hope it will get reverted anytime soon - as it happend to the old new
 Google Help system ;-)


Indeed, things are not set in stone and encouraging people to ask
development question on Stack Overflow is also motivated by the populary of
the google-app-engine tag rising there.

We will continue to follow up with developer tool trends, and adapt our
community support to it.

Hope that helps you to understand better our motivations.

 Cheers,
 Daniel

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Maxim Lacrima

I agree with Steve.

On 7 February 2012 06:30, Steve unetright.thebas...@xoxy.net wrote:

 -1

 The best way to accomplish a task in GAE (at least in the python runtime)
 seems to change, often significantly, over time.  I find the groups to be a
 better format for moving targets like GAE and Stack Overflow better for
 more established topics.

 --Steve

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Prashant

I also agree with Steve.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Maxim Lacrima lacrima.ma...@gmail.comwrote:

 I agree with Steve.


 On 7 February 2012 06:30, Steve unetright.thebas...@xoxy.net wrote:

 -1

 The best way to accomplish a task in GAE (at least in the python runtime)
 seems to change, often significantly, over time.  I find the groups to be a
 better format for moving targets like GAE and Stack Overflow better for
 more established topics.

 --Steve

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 Maxim

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Johan Euphrosine

Hi Steve,

While I'll agree that experimental feature might be subject to change
and deprecation, all the stable API [1] are here to stay and are
subject to the 3 years deprecation policy [2].

Also note that Stack Overflow questions and anwers can be edited over
time (like a wiki), unlike the groups where it is really difficult to
surface and update interesting content without creating a new thread.

[1] http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/features.html
[2] http://code.google.com/appengine/terms.html

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 5:30 AM, Steve unetright.thebas...@xoxy.net wrote:
 -1

 The best way to accomplish a task in GAE (at least in the python runtime)
 seems to change, often significantly, over time.  I find the groups to be a
 better format for moving targets like GAE and Stack Overflow better for more
 established topics.

 --Steve

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Leandro Rezende

-1
I loved waking up every morning and check the emails from this group, i
always read almost everything, not even knowing what it is about, only to
learn more about GAE, future problens i will have and future solutions
.
As a beginner, i would lose much if the group ends. =(

2012/2/7 Johan Euphrosine pro...@google.com

 Hi Steve,

 While I'll agree that experimental feature might be subject to change
 and deprecation, all the stable API [1] are here to stay and are
 subject to the 3 years deprecation policy [2].

 Also note that Stack Overflow questions and anwers can be edited over
 time (like a wiki), unlike the groups where it is really difficult to
 surface and update interesting content without creating a new thread.

 [1] http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/features.html
 [2] http://code.google.com/appengine/terms.html

 On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 5:30 AM, Steve unetright.thebas...@xoxy.net
 wrote:
  -1
 
  The best way to accomplish a task in GAE (at least in the python runtime)
  seems to change, often significantly, over time.  I find the groups to
 be a
  better format for moving targets like GAE and Stack Overflow better for
 more
  established topics.
 
  --Steve
 
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Johan Euphrosine

Hi Leandro,

Note that we do not plan to deprecate google-appengine@ group (only
the language specific groups google-appengine-python@ and
google-appengine-java@ where most posts fit the stack overflow QA
model).

You can also follow Stack Overflow by email by subscribing to a tag
[1], or with your prefered news reader through RSS [2].

Hope that helps.

[1] Over the google-appengine tag and click subscribe
[2] http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/google-app-engine

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Leandro Rezende
leandro.reze...@gmail.com wrote:
 -1
 I loved waking up every morning and check the emails from this group, i
 always read almost everything, not even knowing what it is about, only to
 learn more about GAE, future problens i will have and future solutions
 .
 As a beginner, i would lose much if the group ends. =(


 2012/2/7 Johan Euphrosine pro...@google.com

 Hi Steve,

 While I'll agree that experimental feature might be subject to change
 and deprecation, all the stable API [1] are here to stay and are
 subject to the 3 years deprecation policy [2].

 Also note that Stack Overflow questions and anwers can be edited over
 time (like a wiki), unlike the groups where it is really difficult to
 surface and update interesting content without creating a new thread.

 [1] http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/features.html
 [2] http://code.google.com/appengine/terms.html

 On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 5:30 AM, Steve unetright.thebas...@xoxy.net
 wrote:
  -1
 
  The best way to accomplish a task in GAE (at least in the python
  runtime)
  seems to change, often significantly, over time.  I find the groups to
  be a
  better format for moving targets like GAE and Stack Overflow better for
  more
  established topics.
 
  --Steve
 
  --
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Andrin von Rechenberg

My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions  answers,
because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.

Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Daniel Florey daniel.flo...@gmail.comwrote:

 I know that Google has grown to a large company and there may be many
 divisions not knowing each other well.
 But from an outside view it is really sad that instead of fixing /
 improving existing Google products, teams are preferring an easy
 workaround like moving to Stack Overflow.
 I've experienced this many times in different Google projects and this
 decision is by far not the worst example, but I don't think it is a good
 idea anyway.
 It was great when Google worked on Wave using gwt, which lead to many
 improvements to gwt in a short time. Why not working closely with the guys
 working on groups to add the missing features?
 I'd prefer to use all the services with my google account integrated into
 the navbar when working with the google stack.

 So in short: Eat your own dog food ;-)

 Daniel

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Johan Euphrosine

Yes, you can subscribe to google-app-engine tag by email: just over
the tag name and click subscribe.

More details on the following post:
http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2010/12/subscribe-to-tags-via-emai/

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
and...@miumeet.com wrote:
 My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions  answers,
 because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.

 Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?

 Cheers,
 -Andrin


 On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Daniel Florey daniel.flo...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I know that Google has grown to a large company and there may be many
 divisions not knowing each other well.
 But from an outside view it is really sad that instead of fixing /
 improving existing Google products, teams are preferring an easy
 workaround like moving to Stack Overflow.
 I've experienced this many times in different Google projects and this
 decision is by far not the worst example, but I don't think it is a good
 idea anyway.
 It was great when Google worked on Wave using gwt, which lead to many
 improvements to gwt in a short time. Why not working closely with the guys
 working on groups to add the missing features?
 I'd prefer to use all the services with my google account integrated into
 the navbar when working with the google stack.

 So in short: Eat your own dog food ;-)

 Daniel

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Bart Thate

If you are on IRC freenode i just made a channel where my bot spams the RSS
feed of stackoverflow. Channel is #appengine-overflow ;]

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg and...@miumeet.comwrote:

 My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions  answers,
 because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.

 Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?

 Cheers,
 -Andrin


 --
Bart Thate

programming schizophrenic - till freedom come!

[!] http://jsonbot.org
[!] http:// http://tinyurl.com/schizoogozerbot.org
[!] http://tinyurl.com/schizoo

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Johan Euphrosine

Hi Daniel,

We observed that more and more people use Stack Overflow for asking
development questions about App Engine:
- 107 questions Last 7 Days
- 461 questions Last 30 Days

And regularly development questions are posted on the language
specific groups, appear to be already answered on Stack Overflow (a
quick search on a particular topic often shows Stack Overflow QAs as
their first results).

We believe that by focusing on 1 platform for development questions
(instead of having google-appengine-java, google-appengine-python and
Stack Overflow), we could create a better developer experience for App
Engine by improving the quality of community support.

Part of this decision is also about officially moving community
support where developers are already going for their development
questions, and we believe Stack Overflow is becoming the preferred
destination for this.

Hope that helps you to understand the rational of this decision.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Daniel Florey daniel.flo...@gmail.com wrote:
 I know that Google has grown to a large company and there may be many
 divisions not knowing each other well.
 But from an outside view it is really sad that instead of fixing / improving
 existing Google products, teams are preferring an easy workaround like
 moving to Stack Overflow.
 I've experienced this many times in different Google projects and this
 decision is by far not the worst example, but I don't think it is a good
 idea anyway.
 It was great when Google worked on Wave using gwt, which lead to many
 improvements to gwt in a short time. Why not working closely with the guys
 working on groups to add the missing features?
 I'd prefer to use all the services with my google account integrated into
 the navbar when working with the google stack.

 So in short: Eat your own dog food ;-)

 Daniel

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-- 
Johan Euphrosine (proppy)
Developer Programs Engineer
Google Developer Relations

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Ikai Lan (Google)

I think it's unfair to compare groups to StackOverflow. There's still
nothing better in my book for a good ol' fashioned, directed discussion.
But as it turns out, groups is really less than optimal for asking
questions about code. And that's okay: StackOverflow is a highly
specialized tool that makes it very easy for developers to look for answers
to their questions. With groups, while you're in the flow of a discussion,
it might be easy to reconcile the back-and-forth as it develops to find the
answers you're looking for, but the tradeoff is that it also leaves a lot
of data in an intermediary, incomplete state that can be confusing to
developers.

Daniel, there are no easy solutions anywhere. Use an outside solution and
be criticized for not drinking our own champagne. Use our own solution and
be criticized for Not Invented Here syndrome. At the end of the day, the
question is really this: what's best for developers? The evidence from
other Google teams that have made this move indicates that officially
moving community support to StackOverflow and keeping a single discussion
group seems to give us the best of all worlds. It'll take a little bit of
time to get used to it, but my suspicion is that people are going to be
happier in the long run (it's my experience that there hasn't been a single
change in the history of software that wasn't met with grumpiness).

There's some really good feedback here about getting updates for questions.
StackOverflow has both RSS and email notifications, but there are
definitely places where their email notifications can be improved. Maybe we
can rig something up to email new questions to people.

Anyway, this is the sort of discussion that thrives here in the Groups, and
it's why we're not shutting them down. Keep it coming!

--
Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
plus.ikailan.com



On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Florey daniel.flo...@gmail.comwrote:

 I know that Google has grown to a large company and there may be many
 divisions not knowing each other well.
 But from an outside view it is really sad that instead of fixing /
 improving existing Google products, teams are preferring an easy
 workaround like moving to Stack Overflow.
 I've experienced this many times in different Google projects and this
 decision is by far not the worst example, but I don't think it is a good
 idea anyway.
 It was great when Google worked on Wave using gwt, which lead to many
 improvements to gwt in a short time. Why not working closely with the guys
 working on groups to add the missing features?
 I'd prefer to use all the services with my google account integrated into
 the navbar when working with the google stack.

 So in short: Eat your own dog food ;-)

 Daniel

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 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
 google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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 http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.


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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Robert Kluin

Cool Bart.  That might make it easier to keep up with the questions there!

Robert





On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:30, Bart Thate bth...@gmail.com wrote:
 If you are on IRC freenode i just made a channel where my bot spams the RSS
 feed of stackoverflow. Channel is #appengine-overflow ;]

 On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg and...@miumeet.com
 wrote:

 My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions  answers,
 because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.

 Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?

 Cheers,
 -Andrin


 --
 Bart Thate

 programming schizophrenic - till freedom come!

 [!] http://jsonbot.org
 [!] http://gozerbot.org
 [!] http://tinyurl.com/schizoo


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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Robert Kluin

I think directing a lot of the specific coding type questions to SO is
good.  It has nice support for things like syntax highlighting built
in, and it is *far* better indexed.  It also gives users the ability
to edit / cleanup / clarify questions based on feed back, and for
users to de-dupe questions.  Basically, it is a nice tool for coding
QnA type stuff.

The only negative aspect in my mind is that it does not facilitate
discussion in quite the same way.  However, as Johan and Ikai have
pointed out, this group will still be here for discussions.  Here if
one sees a question that has been answered then follows up with a
more detailed explanation or caveats, it probably gets more attention
than on SO.  I know I don't generally follow old questions on SO.
Here they pop up and I see them.

Anyways, I think this will be an overall positive move.


Robert




On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 14:06, Robert Kluin robert.kl...@gmail.com wrote:
 Cool Bart.  That might make it easier to keep up with the questions there!

 Robert





 On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:30, Bart Thate bth...@gmail.com wrote:
 If you are on IRC freenode i just made a channel where my bot spams the RSS
 feed of stackoverflow. Channel is #appengine-overflow ;]

 On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg and...@miumeet.com
 wrote:

 My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions  answers,
 because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.

 Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?

 Cheers,
 -Andrin


 --
 Bart Thate

 programming schizophrenic - till freedom come!

 [!] http://jsonbot.org
 [!] http://gozerbot.org
 [!] http://tinyurl.com/schizoo


 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
 Google App Engine group.
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 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
 google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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 http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Andrin von Rechenberg

Ha, great!

Wasn't logged in so I didn't see it.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Bart Thate bth...@gmail.com wrote:

 If you are on IRC freenode i just made a channel where my bot spams the
 RSS feed of stackoverflow. Channel is #appengine-overflow ;]

 On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg 
 and...@miumeet.comwrote:

 My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions  answers,
 because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.

 Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?

 Cheers,
 -Andrin


 --
 Bart Thate

 programming schizophrenic - till freedom come!

 [!] http://jsonbot.org
 [!] http:// http://tinyurl.com/schizoogozerbot.org
 [!] http://tinyurl.com/schizoo


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 To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Brandon Wirtz

Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?

 

Cheers,

-Andrin

 

 

You can get emails about your question, you can get an rss of a tag.

 

It is a wiki so both are kind of weird. And there is not a good way to
sponge the info the way I do with emails that I can then sort offline, or
say to my self. I think Andrin asked that but I didn't really read it at the
time.

 

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

2012-02-07 Thread Andreas

yes, once you subscribe for a tag you can edit the email settings on that 
subscriptions.


On Feb 7, 2012, at 3:34 PM, Brandon Wirtz wrote:

 Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?
  
 Cheers,
 -Andrin
  
  
 You can get emails about your question, you can get an rss of a tag.
  
 It is a wiki so both are kind of weird. And there is not a good way to 
 “sponge” the info the way I do with emails that I can then sort offline, or 
 say to my self… I think Andrin asked that but I didn’t really read it at the 
 time.
  
 
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