[Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
I am kinda confused by the recent posts in this list. One post actually proclaimed that Google could turn Gmail commercial and force you to pay for it. There was even recommendation to turn to yahoo. (If that was sarcasm, I missed it completely). I have been under the impression for years that Google is the ultimate Do-Gooder. Now that Yahoo has resumed bargains with Microsoft, is imagining that yahoo will remain free for ever misinformed? Actually, Google's search engine has remained free. Google office is free, Blogspot is free, Adsense is much more sensible than other ads, then why should gmail alone turn Payware? Ash -- Be yourself everyday, every way ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
Hi, What you read is obviously a joke, a bad one. Google gets more than what it asks for, from ads alone. It doesnt need to make us pay for gmail. On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Ashok Gautham J. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am kinda confused by the recent posts in this list. One post actually > proclaimed that Google could turn Gmail commercial and force you to pay for > it. There was even recommendation to turn to yahoo. (If that was sarcasm, I > missed it completely). I have been under the impression for years that > Google is the ultimate Do-Gooder. Now that Yahoo has resumed bargains with > Microsoft, is imagining that yahoo will remain free for ever misinformed? > > Actually, Google's search engine has remained free. Google office is free, > Blogspot is free, Adsense is much more sensible than other ads, then why > should gmail alone turn Payware? > > > Ash > -- > Be yourself everyday, every way > ___ > To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > "unsubscribe " > in the subject or body of the message. > http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc > -- Saripalli Siva Prakash V P Senior Year, BTech CS04B024 Computer Science and Engineering IIT MADRAS Mobile No:- 09884612740 ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
What the post intended to say was that monopolies should be discouraged, because they can result in the companies withdrawing your freedom, as it has happened with Microsoft. There's no rumour that GMail is going to turn into a paid service. I only foresee such a possibility, but with miniscule probability. The suspiscion lies in the fact that they call it "GMail Beta". Beta versions are usually free, so that users can test them. I have no idea when the real GMail will come out, whether it will come out at all, and whether it will be free or paid when it comes out, and that is something we can't predict. The idea is that we should discourage monopolies, because we know the trouble we face with people handing out MS Word documents, and that is a result of such a monopoly. That was where there was a mention that we must discourage the GMail monopoly, and that's where encouraging Yahoo! etc came up. Regards Akarsh (Hoping to get a different mail service soon) signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
> Google gets more than what it asks for, from ads alone. > It doesnt need to make us pay for gmail. But they do have the right to do it, if they want. Regards Akarsh signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
Hi, You are right, monopolies should be discouraged. But monopoly comes only when that product is very good and no other product matches it. Why would anyone want to shift to something else when the current product is the best. (Law of inertia.) On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Akarsh Simha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Google gets more than what it asks for, from ads alone. > > It doesnt need to make us pay for gmail. > > But they do have the right to do it, if they want. > > Regards > Akarsh > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFIUAwnkAo+aFFLL8MRAtXvAJ9rtOnORmi7m8udFJ/tkLdUfQCWuwCdE0v2 > 0FHDw6e+bTsu6SIdjqIAy6c= > =+ZE9 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > "unsubscribe " > in the subject or body of the message. > http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc > > -- Saripalli Siva Prakash V P Senior Year, BTech CS04B024 Computer Science and Engineering IIT MADRAS Mobile No:- 09884612740 ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Saripalli Siva Prakash venkata phani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > You are right, monopolies should be discouraged. > But monopoly comes only when that product is very good and no other product > matches it. > Why would anyone want to shift to something else when the current product is > the best. (Law of inertia.) > Consider Windows' monopoly. You'll find your answer. Having a monopoly also means they have control, so it becomes difficult for other companies to provide better services. --Arnold ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
Hey, you are not getting me. Even i agree that monopoly is bad. Microsoft had monopoly over OS market. Then linux and Vista ( :) ) came around. My point is people will use whatever they like. You cannot change their views by saying, "Monopoly is bad". On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:31 PM, Arnold Noronha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Saripalli Siva Prakash venkata phani > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > You are right, monopolies should be discouraged. > > But monopoly comes only when that product is very good and no other > product > > matches it. > > Why would anyone want to shift to something else when the current product > is > > the best. (Law of inertia.) > > > > Consider Windows' monopoly. You'll find your answer. > > Having a monopoly also means they have control, so it becomes > difficult for other companies to provide better services. > > --Arnold > ___ > To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > "unsubscribe " > in the subject or body of the message. > http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc > -- Saripalli Siva Prakash V P Senior Year, BTech CS04B024 Computer Science and Engineering IIT MADRAS Mobile No:- 09884612740 ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:46 PM, Saripalli Siva Prakash venkata phani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey, > you are not getting me. Even i agree that monopoly is bad. > Microsoft had monopoly over OS market. Then linux and Vista ( :) ) came > around. > My point is people will use whatever they like. You cannot change their > views by saying, "Monopoly is bad". > Right, I agree on this one. Am not even sure how ethical it is to go about telling somebody to not use some service in order to discourage monopoly. Personally I prefer to discourage monopolies. (And so I adamantly stuck to my jabber account when everybody started using gmail. I found out the hard way that people were trying to send me emails to my jabber account. So well, I shifted to Gmail. If you can't teach them, join them.) --Arnold ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Akarsh Simha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There's no rumour that GMail is going to turn into a paid service. I > only foresee such a possibility, but with miniscule probability. The > suspiscion lies in the fact that they call it "GMail Beta". Beta > versions are usually free, so that users can test them. I have no idea > when the real GMail will come out, whether it will come out at all, > and whether it will be free or paid when it comes out, and that is > something we can't predict. > In fact Debian, Fedora and any software goes through alpha, beta and RC stages, and none went payware. Looking at Google's history, they are more likely to lose people than gain money if they go paid. The idea is that we should discourage monopolies, because we know the > trouble we face with people handing out MS Word documents, and that is > a result of such a monopoly. I would not say I discourage monopoly. I discourage companies that enforce monopoly. If every monopoly must be shot in the head, then so must Linux. We should start using Hurd or some other "not used by every other FLOSS user" OS > That was where there was a mention that > we must discourage the GMail monopoly, and that's where encouraging > Yahoo! etc came up. > But is that not like encouraging one monopoly from another? > Regards > Akarsh > (Hoping to get a different mail service soon) > Unless you create one, I doubt if you will settle for any! > > Ash -- Be yourself everyday, every way ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On 11-Jun-08, at 10:47 PM, Ashok Gautham J. wrote: Actually, Google's search engine has remained free. Google office is free, Blogspot is free, free as in beer -- regards kg http://lawgon.livejournal.com http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/ ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On 11-Jun-08, at 11:12 PM, Saripalli Siva Prakash venkata phani wrote: But monopoly comes only when that product is very good and no other product matches it. if this wasnt a top post, I would be strongly tempted to reply to it -- regards kg http://lawgon.livejournal.com http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/ ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On 11-Jun-08, at 11:57 PM, Arnold Noronha wrote: Personally I prefer to discourage monopolies. (And so I adamantly stuck to my jabber account when everybody started using gmail. I found out the hard way that people were trying to send me emails to my jabber account. So well, I shifted to Gmail. If you can't teach them, join them.) given that the cost of running one's own mail server is so low, I dont see why people bow to the big G -- regards kg http://lawgon.livejournal.com http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/ ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:50 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > given that the cost of running one's own mail server is so low, I dont see > why people bow to the big G > What if the low cost host is snooping on my mails! Or he/she does not have the resources (financial, technical etc) to keep the Russian mafia from sniffing my mails. When it comes to reliability, security etc I would choose Google over low cost service providers. Of all the internet businesses Google knows well that arm twisting users to make a quick buck is bad strategy. regds, mano ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On 12-Jun-08, at 9:04 AM, Mano wrote: given that the cost of running one's own mail server is so low, I dont see why people bow to the big G What if the low cost host is snooping on my mails! Or he/she does not have the resources (financial, technical etc) to keep the Russian mafia from sniffing my mails. I am talking about running one's own dedicated server - not taking a mailbox from some cpanel vendor -- regards kg http://lawgon.livejournal.com http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/ ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I am talking about running one's own dedicated server - not taking a mailbox > from some cpanel vendor > Honestly, I dont think I'm competent enough to keep away the Russian/east european/pakistani/etc crime syndicates - cpanel vendors or dedicated servers or even my own machine in my bedroom or whatever. Remember, these types took over debian repositories and were undetected for months. So Google (or Yahoo or MSN) seems to be a more reliable bet. regds, mano ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On 12-Jun-08, at 9:35 AM, Mano wrote: I am talking about running one's own dedicated server - not taking a mailbox from some cpanel vendor Honestly, I dont think I'm competent enough to keep away the Russian/east european/pakistani/etc crime syndicates - cpanel vendors or dedicated servers or even my own machine in my bedroom or whatever. Remember, these types took over debian repositories and were undetected for months. So Google (or Yahoo or MSN) seems to be a more reliable bet. eternal vigilance is the price of freedom - it is safer and easier to entrust your freedom to a benevolent big brother - you *may* be safe, but no longer free. It is a choice that each individual has to make. -- regards kg http://lawgon.livejournal.com http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/ ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
hi I remember few years back (may be around 2000/2001) usa.net(or something similar to such name) was most widely used mail - it was free and very popular. Suddenly they decided to charge people landing their users into trouble. Most shifted to yahoo then - needless to say - many would have lost data. Raman.P Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it on http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/bestofyahoo/ ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Thursday 12 Jun 2008, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On 11-Jun-08, at 11:57 PM, Arnold Noronha wrote: > > Personally I prefer to discourage monopolies. (And so I adamantly > > stuck to my jabber account when everybody started using gmail. I > > found out the hard way that people were trying to send me emails to > > my jabber account. So well, I shifted to Gmail. If you can't teach > > them, join them.) > > given that the cost of running one's own mail server is so low, I > dont see why people bow to the big G IMO, this solution is not for everyone. Besides, assuming one had competency in this domain and the time, many sites reject mails from IP blocks belonging to ISPs. Thanks to spammers, the whole block appears in RBLs. -- Arun Khan ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Thursday 12 Jun 2008, Ashok Gautham J. wrote: > I would not say I discourage monopoly. I discourage companies that > enforce monopoly. If every monopoly must be shot in the head, then so > must Linux. We should start using Hurd or some other "not used by > every other FLOSS user" OS Thanks. I did not know Linux had achieved monopoly status. Anyway, the Linux ecosystem is not owned and/or sold by any one entity - therefore, IMO Linux and monopoly are antithesis. No one is compelling anyone to use Linux. This is a Linux list so naturally there will be a ra-ra for Linux. You are free to choose MS Windows, the *BSD variants, Mac OS X, OpenSolaris - but Hurd? Is FSF using it on their production machines? -- Arun Khan ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On 12-Jun-08, at 10:44 AM, Arun Khan wrote: On Thursday 12 Jun 2008, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On 11-Jun-08, at 11:57 PM, Arnold Noronha wrote: Personally I prefer to discourage monopolies. (And so I adamantly stuck to my jabber account when everybody started using gmail. I found out the hard way that people were trying to send me emails to my jabber account. So well, I shifted to Gmail. If you can't teach them, join them.) given that the cost of running one's own mail server is so low, I dont see why people bow to the big G IMO, this solution is not for everyone. Besides, assuming one had competency in this domain and the time, many sites reject mails from IP blocks belonging to ISPs. Thanks to spammers, the whole block appears in RBLs. a hetzner server costs 40 euro a month - if I can get another 5 guys from ilugc to contribute, I can set up a mail/web server that we can all use - free of the big G and secure (if the best talent in ilugc cannot secure a server, god help this planet) -- regards kg http://lawgon.livejournal.com http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/ ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On 12-Jun-08, at 10:53 AM, Arun Khan wrote: You are free to choose MS Windows, the *BSD variants, Mac OS X, OpenSolaris - but Hurd? Is FSF using it on their production machines? hurd and vista are in competition as the two most useless operating systems -- regards kg http://lawgon.livejournal.com http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/ ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
Hello, On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Arun Khan wrote: > On Thursday 12 Jun 2008, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > given that the cost of running one's own mail server is so low, I > > dont see why people bow to the big G > > assuming one had competency in this domain and the time, Which is why having a community supported service sounds increasingly like a good idea. Let's see if there is some "prior art" which can help. > many sites reject mails from IP blocks belonging to ISPs. Thanks to > spammers, the whole block appears in RBLs. Making a lot of noise at the ISP's does (eventually) yield results. One can also use TLS to communicate with "friendly" mail exchangers. Kapil. -- ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > a hetzner server costs 40 euro a month - if I can get another 5 guys from > ilugc to contribute, I can set up a mail/web server that we can all use - > free of the big G and secure (if the best talent in ilugc cannot secure a > server, god help this planet) > Nice initiative. Am not sure any such 'dedicated' service already exists IMHO, most of the guys who end up using Gmail more than Yahoo/M$ are purely due to the 'threaded' view and the embedded chat in the former. Venkat Blog @ http://blizzardzblogs.blogspot.com ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
Hello, On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > hurd and vista are in competition as the two most useless operating > systems I haven't used Vista but I have used the Hurd---about 5 years ago when I decided that my desktop machine could manage fine with Hurd. Unfortunately, I have since then migrated to using only a laptop, so I haven't kept up with the development. Is it really so bad? Regards, Kapil. -- ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
Hi, --- On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Kapil Hari Paranjape <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | Unfortunately, I have since then migrated to using only a laptop, \-- I test/use it with qemu: http://www.shakthimaan.com/installs/hurd-k16-x86.html --- | I haven't kept up with the development. \-- Browse the wiki: http://www.bddebian.com/~wiki/ SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 10:47:25PM +0530, Ashok Gautham J. wrote: > I am kinda confused by the recent posts in this list. One post actually > proclaimed that Google could turn Gmail commercial and force you to pay for > it. Would it serve them financially to take such a step? IMO, they gain much more revenue displaying ads for such a massive number of users. I don't think a small subset of paid users can ever generate that amount of revenue for them. Yeah the costs too would reduce in the latter case balancing with the reduced income. But, wouldn't google go for a bigger userbase when they can quite easily manage it. -- I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each other's dreams, we can play together all night. -- Calvin ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Thursday 12 Jun 2008, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > Hello, > > On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Arun Khan wrote: > > On Thursday 12 Jun 2008, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > > given that the cost of running one's own mail server is so low, I > > > dont see why people bow to the big G > > > > assuming one had competency in this domain and the time, > > Which is why having a community supported service sounds increasingly > like a good idea. Let's see if there is some "prior art" which can > help. This works when there are a number of volunteers who can fill each other's roles. My general observation (including LUGs), when there is a call for volunteers most step *back* leaving the one who proposed holding the baton. What happens when this person moves on to bigger and better things and is unable to provide support? > > many sites reject mails from IP blocks belonging to ISPs. Thanks > > to spammers, the whole block appears in RBLs. > > Making a lot of noise at the ISP's does (eventually) yield results. Good luck explaining all this to MTNL (believe me I have tried upto GM Broadband). Now, I am thankful for little things like my DSL connection initializes and gives me 'Net connection. Cannot comment on other ISPs. > One can also use TLS to communicate with "friendly" mail exchangers. I do not understand the above. Are you suggesting that I exchange email with only those whose SMTP servers are willing to accept messages from my smtp server? -- Arun Khan ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
Hello, On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Arun Khan wrote: > On Thursday 12 Jun 2008, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > Which is why having a community supported service sounds increasingly > > like a good idea. Let's see if there is some "prior art" which can > > help. > > This works when there are a number of volunteers who can fill each > other's roles. I agree that a lot of people must chip-in. Each person using the service can (in a small or big way) contribute to its running. Part of the "prior-art" question is how does one set up things so that this contribution is possible. For example, bug-reporting must work well. Some sort of user upgradation system is required. And so on. > My general observation (including LUGs), when there is a call for > volunteers most step *back* leaving the one who proposed holding the > baton. Such pessimism is unwarranted. How do volunteer supported services (use Debian?!) work? The point is to make the service so vibrant that no one can do without it. > > One can also use TLS to communicate with "friendly" mail exchangers. > > I do not understand the above. Are you suggesting that I exchange email > with only those whose SMTP servers are willing to accept messages from > my smtp server? There will always be some mail servers/admins who will blindly follow the RBL of the most pig-headed of the DNS black-listers. For the rest of the "friendlier" admins you can offer to use your certificate-based TLS connection so that "normal" SMTP blacklists can be overcome. Most MTA's allow for TLS authenticated servers to by-pass the blacklists. In any case, the blacklists do not apply to if you are receiving mail --- only if you are sending it. Regards, Kapil. -- ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Arun Khan wrote: > Good luck explaining all this to MTNL (believe me I have tried upto GM > Broadband). Now, I am thankful for little things like my DSL > connection initializes and gives me 'Net connection. Cannot comment on > other ISPs. Which leads me to wonder aloud on an off-topic rant; why on EARTH does MTNL Mumbai have the most ice-age rates for broadband access? Rs.199 for a 400 MB makes Mumbai the only area in town where the public phone company gives a sub-1GB cap for ~Rs. 200. That apart, they have NO unlimited connection for home users, if I understand correctly. Yes, I know this is ILUG-Chennai, but couldn't help ranting. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks. Kumar -- Kumar Appaiah ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Mano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:50 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves > > given that the cost of running one's own mail server is so low, I dont see > > why people bow to the big G > > > > What if the low cost host is snooping on my mails! Or he/she does not > have the resources (financial, technical etc) to keep the Russian > mafia from sniffing my mails. > > When it comes to reliability, security etc I would choose Google over > low cost service providers. Of all the internet businesses Google > knows well that arm twisting users to make a quick buck is bad > strategy. Agreed. Infact, one of the reasons why I turned to Google's hosted account. No matter where I host, I would never get the advantage of carrying my mails all over the world without the need for my own PC / laptop to be around. Secondly, I won't have to pay for the storage of my mails (which is currently at 3Gigs). Of course, there is the risk of google hosted account going paid. Don't see it happening yet. They need my user-behaviour data to improve their ad system, no? ;) -Suraj -- Home: http://sunson.in/ ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Suraj Kumar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Of course, there is the risk of google hosted account going paid. > Don't see it happening yet. They need my user-behaviour data to > improve their ad system, no? ;) > yes as many of them tell , ads is their primary source of revenue . -- pavithran shakamuri www.look-pavi.blogspot.com mobile: 91-9884681627 ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
GNU/Hurd (Was Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!)
On Thursday 12 Jun 2008, Shakthi Kannan wrote: > > I test/use it with qemu: > http://www.shakthimaan.com/installs/hurd-k16-x86.html Nice set of instructions :) It may be great for teaching operating system design just like Minix. > | I haven't kept up with the development. > > \-- > > Browse the wiki: > http://www.bddebian.com/~wiki/ Lists two sites using Debian GNU/Hurd that are supposed to be live on the 'Net. Tried visiting both sites; connection timed out for both. Apparently they are down. 'nuff said. -- Arun Khan ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
[OT] Volunteering (was Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!)
On Thursday 12 Jun 2008, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Arun Khan wrote: > > On Thursday 12 Jun 2008, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > > Which is why having a community supported service sounds > > > increasingly like a good idea. Let's see if there is some "prior > > > art" which can help. > > > > This works when there are a number of volunteers who can fill each > > other's roles. > > I agree that a lot of people must chip-in. Each person using the > service can (in a small or big way) contribute to its running. Part > of the "prior-art" question is how does one set up things so that > this contribution is possible. For example, bug-reporting must work > well. Some sort of user upgradation system is required. And so on. > > > My general observation (including LUGs), when there is a call for > > volunteers most step *back* leaving the one who proposed holding > > the baton. > > Such pessimism is unwarranted. How do volunteer supported services > (use Debian?!) work? The point is to make the service so vibrant that > no one can do without it. Easier said than done. The point is any service to be vibrant needs help (a lot) - ideas, organizing, execution Professional services charge lacs for comparable happenings. I am an optimist; over the past 28 years or so, I have volunteered myself in community activities, sometimes paying for travel, board and lodging from my pocket. Likewise, I do it for promoting/advocating open source. It is not pessimism but ground reality. Volunteer supported service like Debian is global and thus the volunteer pool of dedicated individuals is large. They have a different mind set. IMO, there is no comparison. My observation/comments are specific to smaller and local activities. Case in point, the FOSS related conferences I have attended. Only handful of volunteers come forward to organize, execute, and manage the events. Invariably, I have seen the same few faces (of the dedicated individuals) working their a** off. -- Arun Khan ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [OT] Volunteering (was Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!)
/** My observation/comments are specific to smaller and local activities. Case in point, the FOSS related conferences I have attended. Only handful of volunteers come forward to organize, execute, and manage the events. Invariably, I have seen the same few faces (of the dedicated individuals) working their a** off. **/ Its not only volunteering. However, the management of volunteers. If there is a pool of 10 to 20 volunteers, and if there is no one to manage it, then it will disappear.. Debian is one example of volunteer base.. but there is a core team which manages all.. similarly, wordpress, and other popular open source softwares are well managed by core team. If we could form a core team to define a clear objective manage the volunteers, we can bring about a change. Expecting everything to happen out of itself may not be practical.. Just my few cents Regards, SEnthil ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [OT] Volunteering (was Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!)
On Wednesday 18 Jun 2008, senthilraja P wrote: > /** My observation/comments are specific to smaller and local > activities. Case in point, the FOSS related conferences I have > attended. Only handful of volunteers come forward to organize, > execute, and manage the events. Invariably, I have seen the same few > faces (of the dedicated individuals) working their a** off. > **/ > > Its not only volunteering. However, the management of volunteers. > If there is a pool of 10 to 20 volunteers, and if there is no one to > manage it, then it will disappear.. I agree about effective management of volunteers. But then the managers in such activities/events are also volunteers, as humans they are not perfect. Individuals from these "10 to 20 volunteers" should also take on leadership when they see a gap, instead of just following and looking for instructions from "managers." -- Arun Khan ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Google vs MS (Was Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!)
Hello, On Wed, 11 Jun 2008, Akarsh Simha wrote: > What the post intended to say was that monopolies should be > discouraged, because they can result in the companies withdrawing > your freedom, as it has happened with Microsoft. Here is an article which shows that Google is set to overtake Microsoft financially! http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/5/google_to_surpass_size_of_microsoft_windows_in_2009 Expecially noteworthy is the "important observation" on why Google will rise --- "It is a natural monopoly". Let me re-iterate that it is not my intention to say that Google is "evil" --- howver, as companies become monopolies they tend to take the "either you are with us or you are against us" attitude. This is road from civility (inter-operability) towards "evil"ity. ;) Regards, Kapil. -- ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
[OT] brain dead ISP (was Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!)
OK, I have marked it OT, in a new composition with appropriate sub. line. On Thursday 12 Jun 2008, Kumar Appaiah wrote: > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Arun Khan wrote: > > Good luck explaining all this to MTNL (believe me I have tried upto > > GM Broadband). Now, I am thankful for little things like my DSL > > connection initializes and gives me 'Net connection. Cannot > > comment on other ISPs. > > Which leads me to wonder aloud on an off-topic rant; why on EARTH > does MTNL Mumbai have the most ice-age rates for broadband access? B'coz their management lives in the ice age Their thinking is frozen :) > Rs.199 for a 400 MB makes Mumbai the only area in town where the > public phone company gives a sub-1GB cap for ~Rs. 200. That apart, > they have NO unlimited connection for home users, if I understand > correctly. You are right. MTNL Mumbai is the only ISP that has yet to offer a true unlimited plan for the residential customers. AirTel has unlimited plans but only in parts of the city. MTNL/Delhi (like BSNL across the country) offers 256/256 Kbps unlimited but at a higher tariff compared to BSNL. I asked the Mumbai babus about the differences in Delhi/Mumbai unlimited plans and was told that an unlimited plan, in Mumbai, would be abused! Go figure that one. -- Arun Khan ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: Google vs MS (Was Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!)
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Kapil Hari Paranjape <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Let me re-iterate that it is not my intention to say that Google is > "evil" --- howver, as companies become monopolies they tend to take > the "either you are with us or you are against us" attitude. This > is road from civility (inter-operability) towards "evil"ity. ;) > I have been hearing that Google is preferring to build tools inhouse than using FOSS tools - though it contributes to OSS in its own sweet way - but i am yet to see a 'really cool' FOSS tool from Google's stables. Having said that, i find that the biggest asset in GOOG is there employees - some of them who are not egomaniacs :) I do not consider Y! here - am always confused whether they are a media company or a tech company! btw...i happen to know of an instance wherein in one of the Y! interviews(for their search team) - the interviewer ended up asking the interviewee about the fields in the RSS feed :P and asked how the individual fields that can be stored in a MySQL table. Venkat ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: Google vs MS (Was Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!)
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 8:08 PM, Venkatraman S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I do not consider Y! here - am always confused whether they are a media > company or a tech company! btw...i happen to know of an instance wherein in > one of the Y! interviews(for their search team) - the interviewer ended up > asking the interviewee about the fields in the RSS feed :P and asked how the > individual fields that can be stored in a MySQL table. I'll try to not look like I'm speaking as a Yahoo! employee here :) Instead, I shall merely try to explain why the notion of 'monopoly' is a common running thread across all stock-market driven companies such as Google or Yahoo! or Microsoft. I'll try and elaborate why its not really in the companies hands to be pure of heart given the conficting drive to make profits. and interestingly, even a seemingly altrusitic thing such as releasing "really cool" FOSS tool. The motive is the same. The approach, different. You gotta understand one thing: End of the day, both Yahoo! and Google are companies into which the market has invested money and they need to make 'profits' against the money invested. Don't make profits, nobody wants to invest in you. Emotional affectives such as freedom to the world do always take a back seat because the investors don't shake a leg about such affectives. Doesn't matter whether its a Google or a Microsoft or a Yahoo!. What differs amongst these is how they intend to make the money. However, there is clearly nothing different in what they all want to do: to gain an exclusive market space and keep making money in such a way that its difficult for competitors to take away your market share. Microsoft's strategies has been the three Es (Embrace, Extend, Extinguish (see wikipedia for details)). Google's strategy has been to provide a free-value network to people while making that a marketplace for advertisers to show their ads. Yahoo! had created a marketplace for itself by making itself the number one destination on the internet (yes, even today, Yahoo.com is the most visited website on the planet). People (especially those of the US) visit Yahoo! because that's where their tidbits of their daily lives come from - Mail, News, Photos, bookmarks, media sharing and so on. Yahoo! had traditionally been making money pretty well by displaying advertisements on these 'destinations'. We all know about how advertising drives up sales and so on. While traditional advertising is all about registering a brand in the observer's mind, a significant portion of advertising is also to find out the user's intent. While each Yahoo! destination went the way of mining the user's data and using it to deliver relevant ads, Google's strategy was quite different - they ended up asking the user to provide his intention into a search box. That's where, things took a big turn in how the internet advertising industry evolved. Soon advertisers saw the great potential of search based advertising and Google became a one-hit wonder. So, its all about the advertisements in the end. Google does it by some ways. Yahoo! uses some other... and there are lot of overlaps between the two too. Now, both have figured, being destinations isn't the way they are going to grow further and that being good with interoperability is the way to go. Google allows folks to access their data through APIs. Yahoo! also has APIs to a lot of it's services (del.icio.us, flickr, maps... and I'm sure you heard about Search Monkey :) ). Besides APIs, I can say with certainity, amongst google and Yahoo!, Yahoo! has released quite a lot of pretty interesting open source software. The first that comes to my mind is Hadoop and all the work around hadoop (pig, etc.,.)... and for the common netizen, YUI, Yahoo!'s contributions to mysql and even the FreeBSD project. Compare this to the 'funding' by Google to the Mozilla project. IMO, it is merely a distribution 'deal' (ie.,. to have google as the default search engine) than a funding per-se. You see, I'm not saying Google is evil. I'm saying, even if google's pure-hearted intention was to fund the Mozilla project, they wouldn't have been able to do it without explaining to their investors why they want to give away that money. Becoming the default search engine on Mozilla is their answer to the investors. Finally, I'd like to throw some perspective about the 'question' you were asked in your interview. Before I joined Yahoo!, I worked for an embedded systems company. The challenges there are quite different: It's about being memory efficient and the data one deals with is typically small. For instance, one of my interview questions was to write a program to extract common words between two files. My initial answer was a technically working answer. But the moment my interviewer asked me "What if there were a million words in both the files?", I had to rethink my program because now we are talking a completely different scale and the problem has morphed into a new one.
Re: Google vs MS (Was Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!)
Suraj Kumar wrote: > On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 8:08 PM, Venkatraman S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'll try to not look like I'm speaking as a Yahoo! employee here :) > Instead, I shall merely try to explain why the notion of 'monopoly' is > a common running thread across all stock-market driven companies such > as Google or Yahoo! or Microsoft. I'll try and elaborate why its not > really in the companies hands to be pure of heart given the conficting > drive to make profits. and interestingly, even a seemingly altrusitic > thing such as releasing "really cool" FOSS tool. The motive is the > same. The approach, different. > [snip] That was one awesome, unholy rant. :) Sujith -- http://sujith-m.blogspot.com ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: Google vs MS (Was Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!)
On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Suraj Kumar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Extracting and storing an RSS feed into a database is a very similar > question too. It has quite a few elements that can be optimised and > they were just testing your design, data structure and approach, IMO. > Imagine, you have a billion RSS feeds to process, wouldn't you have to > think differently about how you'll do trivial things such as sorting > or defining your database schema? Would you even be able to run a > single database instance? ... and how are you going to be > fault-tolerant? > Am sorry for i havent replied to the bulk of the email - i felt asleep..i got blinded. Suddenly i woke up and saw some references to 'you' and since the previous email was mine - then i presume 'you is me' :P I guess you didnt read the Q properly : storing the fields in a Mysql table(as in 'desc tablename') is different from creating a format(read 'Data structure') in which lookups are faster and is also feasible on the space(we learnt it in college as 'Time/Space complexity'). On second thoughts, probably you are right, probably the interviewee should have anticipated the Qs that 'desc tablename' will lead to 'design a custom rdbms'. beers, Venkat ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [OT] brain dead ISP (was Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!)
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Arun Khan wrote: > OK, I have marked it OT, in a new composition with appropriate sub. > line. Thanks. > On Thursday 12 Jun 2008, Kumar Appaiah wrote: >> Which leads me to wonder aloud on an off-topic rant; why on EARTH >> does MTNL Mumbai have the most ice-age rates for broadband access? > > B'coz their management lives in the ice age Their thinking is frozen :) > >> Rs.199 for a 400 MB makes Mumbai the only area in town where the >> public phone company gives a sub-1GB cap for ~Rs. 200. That apart, >> they have NO unlimited connection for home users, if I understand >> correctly. > > You are right. MTNL Mumbai is the only ISP that has yet to offer a true > unlimited plan for the residential customers. AirTel has unlimited > plans but only in parts of the city. At a time when BSNL is coming up with offers which compete well with the private players, this sort of preferential neglect shown by MTNL Mumbai is a shame. > MTNL/Delhi (like BSNL across the country) offers 256/256 Kbps unlimited > but at a higher tariff compared to BSNL. I asked the Mumbai babus > about the differences in Delhi/Mumbai unlimited plans and was told that > an unlimited plan, in Mumbai, would be abused! Go figure that one. Oh right. Tell FOSS users who apt-get/yum install everyday how much of misuse they subject MTNL's valuable bandwidth to! Oh, the fright! ;-) Anyway, at a time when the very existence of MTNL is (or at least was, when there was talk of a merger with BSNL), this sort of giving "special treatment" to Mumbai is nothing short of retrograde! Thanks for listening. I end my rant here. Kumar -- Kumar Appaiah ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [OT] brain dead ISP (was Re: [Ilugc] Google vs Yahoo, again!)
On Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 05:54:42PM +0530, Arun Khan wrote: > MTNL/Delhi (like BSNL across the country) offers 256/256 Kbps unlimited > but at a higher tariff compared to BSNL. I asked the Mumbai babus > about the differences in Delhi/Mumbai unlimited plans and was told that > an unlimited plan, in Mumbai, would be abused! Go figure that one. And if that's not good enough, they have nice separate plans for MP's http://mumbai.mtnl.net.in/triband/htm/mptariff.html -- I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each other's dreams, we can play together all night. -- Calvin ___ To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
