Arto, USA, and Michelagnolo (was:VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS - don't read if you are Bush challenged...)
Hi Arto, you are one of the (if not the) oldest contributors to this list, and have been with it from the beginning. I'm sure that many of your contributions have been insightful and worthwile for many lutenetters. Perhaps it even gives you some kind of special rights, to do what you do every once in a while, but IMO you are either very naìve or rather cunning. Take for instance this need to drop an anti-american bomb on the net twice a year or so, stopping all the other interesting threads going on at the moment, (which are such delicate, ephemeral and soon forgotten things). It is quite an arrogant and also destructive thing to do, if you really think about it! Although I can very well understand your frustration about the policy of the USA, especially under Bush. It's a frustration that is supposedly shared with a substantial part of today's world. (At least in Europe and the Middle East). What you are not taking into consideration is that this list is read by and contributed to, mainly by americans. How could you expect to influence them in any other way, than to make them defend their homeland and values? The handful of foreign contributors here don't have a chance in the world to achieve that. What did you achieve with your previous 3 or 4 incitements? Did you learn anything? IMO, many americans are not very interested in finding out or caring about what happens in the rest of the world. And why should they? They live in a soap-bubble world of their own. The USA is a *huge* continent. You can easily devote a whole lifetime trying to learn about it's history, geography, internal politics, etc. without having to care getting informed about the rest of the world, which is perhaps both a blessing and a curse. Sure, many say that the US today takes a much too huge space in the world, (just like a few of the people on this list), that it behaves imperialistically, that it's previous and present help to other nations was, (and is) conducted as a strategy for self-agrandisation or self-help, that it inundates the rest of the world with crap action movies, sex-fixation and values of a life-style that is detrimental to the planet, as doubtlessly is their over consumption of fossil fuels and other raw-materials. That it is a navel-gazing society, where 50% or more of the population don't even know where Finland is, and if they knew, wouldn't even care. That their arms-industry is bringing the planet to the brink of extinction, that their fundamentalist interpretation of christianity is just as bad as that of other religions, and the dollar is God. But IMV you are definitely adressing the wrong forum. The only thing you will achieve, (but perhaps that is your intention), is to raise the temperature a few degrees, bring out the usual hot-headed combattants, and sit back, while you see this thread degenerate into a muck-throwing contest that leads to nowhere. Perhaps that is also a form of catharsis, but I doubt it. It has been proved again and again, that the majority of lutenetters on this list are intensely tired with this sort of thing. For all I know, you have turned into an agent who tries to flush out those on the lutenet with anti-american sentiments, those for us, or against us to use a recent saying. At least this becomes the result of your behaviour, in which case I'm in deep s**t here! ;) No society is a homogenous society. Nowadays there seems to be a tendency to be either for or against, with the population divided roughly in the middle, as most polls show. A third informed view is usually either disregarded or ignored. See it as a sign of our times. A great majority of the americans on this list, seem to be friendly, peaceful, well-informed folks, sharing a love for the lute, (I hope) just like you and me. Some will be for Bush and american policy, some will be against. But (probably) most of them are still supporters of the american way and all what that stands for, and to change their views, you'd perhaps do better donning some messiah's garb or other and go out and preach them the right gospel (what in fact you are actually doing in a sort of fruitless modern internet way). Or join the militant fringes that are also fruitlessly trying to combat the (al)mighty USA through terrorist mosquito-bites, that always only strike the innocent third-parties. Useless Arto, it won't work. People make up their own decisions and views, either letting themselves be brain-washed by media or through massive self-education, and what you or I have to say in this matter is really not relevant in the least, when it comes to politics or religion. Let's face it. The mighty, arrogant capitalist US policy is taking over the world today, whether we like it or not. Normal, simple, decent, peace loving people throughout the world are taking the american way to their hearts, even at the cost of loosing their own national identity, and there isn't a jot either you or I can do about it other than starting some
Re: Arto, USA, and Michelagnolo (was:VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS - don't read if you are Bush challenged...)
Dear G=F6ran, I will not get into the discussion myself although, as most of you, have my own views and opinions. In the past, I told Arto and some of the other members what I think about posting this sort of messages to the list. What I personally find to be quite an error, is that you don't follow your own advise (...This is precisely why I have always abstained from trying to propagate religious or political views on this list. We've seen where it leads to. It can't be said enough times. There are heaps and heaps of lists, where people can discuss political or religious matters to their hearts content. There are very few lists, where lovers of the lute are able to do the same. Do you want to pollute it?...) and you tell Arto that he shouldn't do something that you've done yourself extensively, and all in the same email. Your opinions are also as political (whether we-you like it-them or not) and one sided as Arto's, and in strict terms also out of place in this list, according to what you think (and I) it is conceived for. For many years I've been participating in political debates, writing in magazines and discussion groups. I'd be happy to provide information about all these to any of you, if exists the necessity of expressing and sharing thoughts with other individuals about all that sort of items. Here and now, my humble opinion is that I'm happy writing and reading about lutes and lute music here, and uncomfortable with either Arto's of anyone else's political messages. In the past I made the mistake of getting into the arguments taking place on the list, and I regret. Please, excuse my English, and keep in mind that I might not be aware of the courtesy formula for this kind of things. Regards, a -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
Roman wrote: I know what your intent is, but Bob Heinlein is not exactly a model of intellectual precision, obviously... Obvious to you maybe. Are the conclusions wrong? Craig ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Arto, USA, and Michelagnolo (was:VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS - don
Days ago I wrote an e-mail about the Mozart eccet on this list, collecting some relevant abstract on the subject; follow-up answers? None. Arto two days ago wrote an off-topic letter about Bush et al. Follow-up: three or more answers so far. Conclusion: just a little disappointment. Paolo Dear G=F6ran, I will not get into the discussion myself although, as most of you, have my own views and opinions. In the past, I told Arto and some of the other members what I think about posting this sort of messages to the list. What I personally find to be quite an error, is that you don't follow your own advise (...This is precisely why I have always abstained from trying to propagate religious or political views on this list. We've seen where it leads to. It can't be said enough times. There are heaps and heaps of lists, where people can discuss political or religious matters to their hearts content. There are very few lists, where lovers of the lute are able to do the same. Do you want to pollute it?...) and you tell Arto that he shouldn't do something that you've done yourself extensively, and all in the same email. Your opinions are also as political (whether we-you like it-them or not) and one sided as Arto's, and in strict terms also out of place in this list, according to what you think (and I) it is conceived for. For many years I've been participating in political debates, writing in magazines and discussion groups. I'd be happy to provide information about all these to any of you, if exists the necessity of expressing and sharing thoughts with other individuals about all that sort of items. Here and now, my humble opinion is that I'm happy writing and reading about lutes and lute music here, and uncomfortable with either Arto's of anyone else's political messages. In the past I made the mistake of getting into the arguments taking place on the list, and I regret. Please, excuse my English, and keep in mind that I might not be aware of the courtesy formula for this kind of things. Regards, a -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6X velocizzare la tua navigazione a 56k? 6X Web Accelerator di Libero! Scaricalo su INTERNET GRATIS 6X http://www.libero.it
Sorry!
Sorry! No more politics or/and ethics by me in the List. Definitely. Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Sorry!
Arto wrote: Sorry! No more politics or/and ethics by me in the List. Definitely. I wish I had a nickle for every time you've said that. Craig ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
Craig Allen scripsit: Roman wrote: I know what your intent is, but Bob Heinlein is not exactly a model of intellectual precision, obviously... Obvious to you maybe. Are the conclusions wrong? Craig You might be helped by the original context, but the way the aphorism was presented makes is sound like advocacy of a police state. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
I know what your intent is, but Bob Heinlein is not exactly a model of intellectual precision, obviously... RT Robert Heinlein. What do you think about his premise in Starship Troopers? (I'll need to reread the book again to be certain.) That the right to vote is only given to those who have served in the military. The Other To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
The Other scripsit: I know what your intent is, but Bob Heinlein is not exactly a model of intellectual precision, obviously... RT Robert Heinlein. What do you think about his premise in Starship Troopers? (I'll need to reread the book again to be certain.) That the right to vote is only given to those who have served in the military. How telling.. RT ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
Craig Allen scripsit: Roman wrote: I know what your intent is, but Bob Heinlein is not exactly a model of intellectual precision, obviously... Obvious to you maybe. Are the conclusions wrong? Craig Unlike you, I had an 18 years experience of living in a police state. Beware of what you are asking for. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://turovsky.org ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
Roman wrote: You might be helped by the original context, but the way the aphorism was presented makes is sound like advocacy of a police state. Actually you may be helped by the original context. I know what it is. For context read Starship Troopers. Try to pay attention to the messages being given by the teacher rather than all the blowing up of alien bugs (something the film version missed completely, but then Hollywood would rather blow things up than tell a story) As Steven T.O. Stubbs pointed out that is the book the quote is taken from and it does have to do with the right to vote being granted to those who have served their nation, presumeabley through military service. People often forget the service part that goes along with military and government service in general. The average citizen doesn't (in any country) in the main serve the nation in any way. Communism in the old Soviet regime and the current versions in China, Korea, and elsewhere tried that by demanding that everything belongs to the State. That to me is a true police state, where it's a crime against the state to possess anything. This is not the premise in Heinleins book. Instead it shows the average person what the nation means and why it is important to want to fight for it, and that only those willing to lay down their lives earn (notice that word) the right to participate in the governing of the nation. People in general, but Americans in particular take Fre! edom for granted. That's the point I (and Heinlein) was making. Craig ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Arto, USA, and Michelagnolo (was:VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS - don't read if you are Bush challenged...)
in celebration of ve day here in europe the bbc world service broadcast an interview with an extraordinary, 104 year old pianist who survived internment by the nazis. in the interview she said she believed all musicians are beautiful - regardless of their political views - because they all have music in their minds. if we were to meet and i were to say to you that i come from the united states, would you automatically start to evaluate me according to your list of american ills (as listed in your previous contribution below) as we speak or would you even see me at all? - bill G.R. Crona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Arto, you are one of the (if not the) oldest contributors to this list, and have been with it from the beginning. I'm sure that many of your contributions have been insightful and worthwile for many lutenetters. Perhaps it even gives you some kind of special rights, to do what you do every once in a while, but IMO you are either very naìve or rather cunning. Take for instance this need to drop an anti-american bomb on the net twice a year or so, stopping all the other interesting threads going on at the moment, (which are such delicate, ephemeral and soon forgotten things). It is quite an arrogant and also destructive thing to do, if you really think about it! Although I can very well understand your frustration about the policy of the USA, especially under Bush. It's a frustration that is supposedly shared with a substantial part of today's world. (At least in Europe and the Middle East). What you are not taking into consideration is that this list is read by and contributed to, mainly by americans. How could you expect to influence them in any other way, than to make them defend their homeland and values? The handful of foreign contributors here don't have a chance in the world to achieve that. What did you achieve with your previous 3 or 4 incitements? Did you learn anything? IMO, many americans are not very interested in finding out or caring about what happens in the rest of the world. And why should they? They live in a soap-bubble world of their own. The USA is a *huge* continent. You can easily devote a whole lifetime trying to learn about it's history, geography, internal politics, etc. without having to care getting informed about the rest of the world, which is perhaps both a blessing and a curse. Sure, many say that the US today takes a much too huge space in the world, (just like a few of the people on this list), that it behaves imperialistically, that it's previous and present help to other nations was, (and is) conducted as a strategy for self-agrandisation or self-help, that it inundates the rest of the world with crap action movies, sex-fixation and values of a life-style that is detrimental to the planet, as doubtlessly is their over consumption of fossil fuels and other raw-materials. That it is a navel-gazing society, where 50% or more of the population don't even know where Finland is, and if they knew, wouldn't even care. That their arms-industry is bringing the planet to the brink of extinction, that their fundamentalist interpretation of christianity is just as bad as that of other religions, and the dollar is God. But IMV you are definitely adressing the wrong forum. The only thing you will achieve, (but perhaps that is your intention), is to raise the temperature a few degrees, bring out the usual hot-headed combattants, and sit back, while you see this thread degenerate into a muck-throwing contest that leads to nowhere. Perhaps that is also a form of catharsis, but I doubt it. It has been proved again and again, that the majority of lutenetters on this list are intensely tired with this sort of thing. For all I know, you have turned into an agent who tries to flush out those on the lutenet with anti-american sentiments, those for us, or against us to use a recent saying. At least this becomes the result of your behaviour, in which case I'm in deep s**t here! ;) No society is a homogenous society. Nowadays there seems to be a tendency to be either for or against, with the population divided roughly in the middle, as most polls show. A third informed view is usually either disregarded or ignored. See it as a sign of our times. A great majority of the americans on this list, seem to be friendly, peaceful, well-informed folks, sharing a love for the lute, (I hope) just like you and me. Some will be for Bush and american policy, some will be against. But (probably) most of them are still supporters of the american way and all what that stands for, and to change their views, you'd perhaps do better donning some messiah's garb or other and go out and preach them the right gospel (what in fact you are actually doing in a sort of fruitless modern internet way). Or join the militant fringes that are also fruitlessly trying
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
Craig Allen scripsit: Roman wrote: You might be helped by the original context, but the way the aphorism was presented makes is sound like advocacy of a police state. Actually you may be helped by the original context. I know what it is. For context read Starship Troopers. Try to pay attention to the messages being given by the teacher rather than all the blowing up of alien bugs (something the film version missed completely, but then Hollywood would rather blow things up than tell a story) As Steven T.O. Stubbs pointed out that is the book the quote is taken from and it does have to do with the right to vote being granted to those who have served their nation, presumeabley through military service. People often Does producing a nation's Culture qualify as a Service? Who is more qualified to vote, Hoppy Smith or Lynndie England forget the service part that goes along with military and government service in general. The average citizen doesn't (in any country) in the main serve the nation in any way. Horsefeathers. In many countries they do, and they are remunerated for it in a variety of social ways. The USA doesn't give a fecal pellet about average citizens, why should it expect large civic spirit from them? Communism in the old Soviet regime and the current versions in China, Korea, and elsewhere tried that by demanding that everything belongs to the State. That to me is a true police state, where it's a crime against the state to possess anything. Craig, if I were you I'd avoid talking about something about which you have no idea. This is not the premise in Heinleins book. Instead it shows the average person what the nation means and why it is important to want to fight for it, and that only those willing to lay down their lives earn (notice that word) the right to participate in the governing of the nation. People in general, but Americans in particular take Fre! edom for granted. That's the point I (and Heinlein) was making. Craig, We are all grown up people here, and we all know that Heilein's fascist fairytales for adults fail to reflect nasty qualities of real human beings, especially corrupted by power (or firepower). This is why in intelligent circles RH doesn't qualify as literature. RT http://polyhymnion.org ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Posts which are off-topic.
I think being rigidly on-topic is bad. I think that art which is isolated from the real world is not viable. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
At 08:59 AM 5/6/2005, The Other wrote: Robert Heinlein. What do you think about his premise in Starship Troopers? (I'll need to reread the book again to be certain.) That the right to vote is only given to those who have served in the military. I don't think anything at all about it...in the context of this list. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Arto, USA, and Michelagnolo (was:VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS - don't read if you are Bush challenged...)
in celebration of ve day here in europe the bbc world service broadcast an interview with an extraordinary, 104 year old pianist who survived internment by the nazis. in the interview she said she believed all musicians are beautiful - regardless of their political views - because they all have music in their minds. I disagree, music does have its edifying limits. Think of a lutenist with initials NN. I much prefer a dictum by someone from the old country who said that a talent is like a pimple, as it could easily appear on an arse. RT ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
BWV 1025, part I
Hola amigos, During the last few months I have (also) been working on BWV 1025 / SWL 47 I would like to share with you some of the things I have been doing so far. First, to catch the mood, here some interesting previous appreciations from our collective memory (Baroque Lute Archives): From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Weiss and BWV 1025 Sterling Price wrote: It has been a few weeks since I have read my e-mail, but I noticed a recent query about the BWV 1025. I have been long interested in this sonata, but could never find a recording until the Vancouver seminar(the music library had a great record collection). I don't remember who did the recording (I think it was Trevor Pinnock on the harpsichord) The recording was done before it was known that it is actually by Weiss. Now no one will record it, which is a shame since it is a typical wonderful late Weiss sonata(Dresden #22). The arrangement has the harpsichord play an octave higher than the original, but occasionally the bass is in the correct octave. The violin part is very elaborate and a bit confusing. It somehow dosen't seem to fit right. There is also a fantasia for the first movement that is not in the original. I am not aware of a recording by Trevor Pinnock (with Simon Standage playing the violin, I assume?) but there *is* one by Musica Antiqua Koeln, with Reinhardt Goebel playing the violin part. It was done as part of a boxed set of all Bach's chamber music at least 15 years ago. This was the recording that the Finnish pupil (I forget his name) of Hoppy Smith heard that led to the recognition of Weiss's part in the work. For the academically-minded German reader there are two relevant articles in recent issues of 'Bach-Jahrbuch' (I *think* these are 1993 and 1994). The first, by Christoph Wolff (Harvard), reports the discovery and goes into a lot of detail about the sources and the arrangement; the second, by Karl-Ernst Schroeder (Basel) responds with a few further observations and minor corrections, including the fact that some extended sections from the 'Fantasia' (which Wolff took to be Bach's homage to Weiss's improvisational style) appear in an anonymous prelude (probably also based on one by Weiss) which appears in some Warsaw MSS. (RB: that would be Breslau W2002) I think we'll hear this sonata again. There is a problem with the Dresden tablature, in that the copyist of this piece (and several others, luckily few of which are unique) is *very* careless. The Bach version seems to correspond better to the other source of the Rondeaux (Munich MS 5362) than to Dresden. Does anyone agree that this lovely Rondeau could be Weiss's homage to Count Losy? Not only do the actual motifs in the melody and the episodes contain unusual intervals like those Losy uses in the same context in his Rondeaux, but there is to my ear a 'cuckoo' reference in the them, which may refer to the 'Gigue qui imite le Cucu' (which is anon but assumed to be by Losy). Comments, anyone? T.Crawford, Oct 1996 Is there a lute solo by Weiss that was based on BWV 1025? Many thanks! David Nadal I think it is quite the other way around: it was Bach who arranged a Weiss lute sonata or 'suite' for violin and harpsichord. In the most recent edition of the BWV (see e.g. Die Musik in Geschichte und Gegenwart, second edition, Personenteil vol. I, col. 1468-1469), no. 1025 is called Trio A-Dur f(r) V(ioline) u(nd) Cemb(alo); an added note states: Satz 2-7 nach einem Lautenwerk von S.L. Weiss. Therefore the Fantasia is regarded as a work of Bach himself. It should also be noted that BWV 1025 no longer bears the label 'doubtful'. I have not been able to find recording of BWV 1025, and therefore cannot be sure which sonata of Weiss Bach transcribed. On the basis of the movement names it would appear to be Dresden no. 22. Peter Van Dessel, Feb. 2000 Further to Markus, there is now a second recording of BWV 1025 with lute, this time accompanying the violin: it's on a new CD of Lutz Kirchhof, Sony Vivarte SK 51351. The violinist is Giuliano Carmignola. Peter Van Dessel, Sep. 2001 OK, so much for that. The version played by Lutz Kirchhof was especially motivating for me for a simple reason: as far as I have analyzed the music, L.Kirchhof is very faithful to the lute part from the Dresden Ms (SWL 47). So, after learning to play the solo Sonata from my Dresden facsimile copy, it was not so difficult to manage BWV 1025. It should be noted that there ARE some differences between BWV 1025 SLW47: Notably, the Sarabande in BWV 1025 is a sort of Double from the one in SLW47, but that´s just great, using that for playing the repeat parts in a solo recital (later I will send my tablature transcription of that
Re: Posts which are off-topic.
At 09:45 AM 5/6/2005, Herbert Ward wrote: I think being rigidly on-topic is bad. I think that art which is isolated from the real world is not viable. Of course, but topics that are thoroughly isolated from lute on this list should not be viable. It's too bad they seem to be the most viable. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
Eugene C. Braig IV scripsit: At 08:59 AM 5/6/2005, The Other wrote: Robert Heinlein. What do you think about his premise in Starship Troopers? (I'll need to reread the book again to be certain.) That the right to vote is only given to those who have served in the military. I don't think anything at all about it...in the context of this list. Is the Right to bear Lutes inalienable? RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Mozart effect
I am intensely skeptical of the Mozart effect. Not so formal as peer reviewed article abstracts, but this little online entry sums things up nicely: http://skepdic.com/mozart.html Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
At 10:21 AM 5/6/2005, Roman Turovsky wrote: Is the Right to bear Lutes inalienable? Without doubt! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Mozart effect
I am intensely skeptical of the Mozart effect. Not so formal as peer reviewed article abstracts, but this little online entry sums things up nicely: http://skepdic.com/mozart.html Eugene So am I. Therefore my twins were (from day 1) subjected to hefty daily doses of JSB, CPEB, SLW, LvB, Haydn, Brahms, Bruckner and many others, but not WAM. RT ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
Eugene C. Braig IV scripsit: At 10:21 AM 5/6/2005, Roman Turovsky wrote: Is the Right to bear Lutes inalienable? Without doubt! Make it audible in Washington. RT -- http://polyhymnion.org/torban ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Melii theorbo tuning (ON TOPIC)
Dear lute-listers, If I may intrude, and if we can bear to tear ourselves away from the deeply-held, sincerely-believed, and of course correct, voicings of personal opinions on politics, religion, and nationlism, perhaps someone may be able to help me with a lute related issue. Does anyone know what the theorbo tuning is for Pietro Paolo Melii's handful of works per la Tiorba? It certainly seems that the second course at least is not re-entrant. Perhaps he's written for a double-strung instrument with only one string of the course tuned down the octave? Or is it for a different tuning altogether? Maybe its not for theorbo at all. I'm woking with the SPES edition, but can't make much from the Italian preface. (Per la tiorba is about it.) Thanks, CW __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
At 10:34 AM 5/6/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eugene C. Braig IV scripsit: At 10:21 AM 5/6/2005, Roman Turovsky wrote: Is the Right to bear Lutes inalienable? Without doubt! Make it audible in Washington. Oddly enough, part of my day job is to pound the pavement and be audible on the Hill in DC on occasion. Unfortunately, it doesn't involve making the pitch with lute kin in hand. Ah well... Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Mozart effect
Oh n! I doubt any effect of any of those composers. Maybe the music of a certain composer or a certain piece tend to affect our senses in a certain way but surely this is nothing lasting. The good thing is believing in the myst of the whoever-effect brings children in contact with good music in early days instead of the ususal pop-radio programs Thomas Am Freitag, 6. Mai 2005 16:33 schrieben Sie: Therefore my twins were (from day 1) subjected to hefty daily doses of JSB, CPEB, SLW, LvB, Haydn, Brahms, Bruckner and many others, but not WAM. -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Three switched witches watch three swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watches which swatch watch switch? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Mozart effect
Oh n! I doubt any effect of any of those composers. Maybe the music of a certain composer or a certain piece tend to affect our senses in a certain way but surely this is nothing lasting. The good thing is believing in the myst of the whoever-effect brings children in contact with good music in early days instead of the ususal pop-radio programs Thomas Actually this had nothing to do with Effect, but rather both my wife and I much prefer Haydn to Mozart. RT Am Freitag, 6. Mai 2005 16:33 schrieben Sie: Therefore my twins were (from day 1) subjected to hefty daily doses of JSB, CPEB, SLW, LvB, Haydn, Brahms, Bruckner and many others, but not WAM. ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC (POLITICS)
At 10:21 AM 5/6/2005, Roman Turovsky wrote: Is the Right to bear Lutes inalienable? Without doubt! Given that a theorbo could take a few lives in one sideways sweep: could it be considered a Lute of Mass Destruction? RT ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Arto, USA, and Michelagnolo (was:VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS - don't read if you are Bush challenged...)
Dear Ariel, if you read my mail carefully, you will notice, that I nowhere in it say that these are my own views about the USA. I specifically abstained from having any personal views. Thought that this came across... On 5/6/05, ariel abramovich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear G=F6ran, I will not get into the discussion myself although, as most of you, have my own views and opinions. In the past, I told Arto and some of the other members what I think about posting this sort of messages to the list. What I personally find to be quite an error, is that you don't follow your own advise (...This is precisely why I have always abstained from trying to propagate religious or political views on this list. We've seen where it leads to. It can't be said enough times. There are heaps and heaps of lists, where people can discuss political or religious matters to their hearts content. There are very few lists, where lovers of the lute are able to do the same. Do you want to pollute it?...) and you tell Arto that he shouldn't do something that you've done yourself extensively, and all in the same email. Your opinions are also as political (whether we-you like it-them or not) and one sided as Arto's, and in strict terms also out of place in this list, according to what you think (and I) it is conceived for. For many years I've been participating in political debates, writing in magazines and discussion groups. I'd be happy to provide information about all these to any of you, if exists the necessity of expressing and sharing thoughts with other individuals about all that sort of items. Here and now, my humble opinion is that I'm happy writing and reading about lutes and lute music here, and uncomfortable with either Arto's of anyone else's political messages. In the past I made the mistake of getting into the arguments taking place on the list, and I regret. Please, excuse my English, and keep in mind that I might not be aware of the courtesy formula for this kind of things. Regards, a -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Arto, USA, and Michelagnolo (was:VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS - don't read if you are Bush challenged...)
Bill, you, as I suppose many others will miss my point. I have nothing against americans. I was quoting. That is what brackets are for. G. On 5/6/05, bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in celebration of ve day here in europe the bbc world service broadcast an interview with an extraordinary, 104 year old pianist who survived internment by the nazis. in the interview she said she believed all musicians are beautiful - regardless of their political views - because they all have music in their minds. if we were to meet and i were to say to you that i come from the united states, would you automatically start to evaluate me according to your list of american ills (as listed in your previous contribution below) as we speak or would you even see me at all? - bill G.R. Crona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Arto, you are one of the (if not the) oldest contributors to this list, and have been with it from the beginning. I'm sure that many of your contributions have been insightful and worthwile for many lutenetters. Perhaps it even gives you some kind of special rights, to do what you do every once in a while, but IMO you are either very naìve or rather cunning. Take for instance this need to drop an anti-american bomb on the net twice a year or so, stopping all the other interesting threads going on at the moment, (which are such delicate, ephemeral and soon forgotten things). It is quite an arrogant and also destructive thing to do, if you really think about it! Although I can very well understand your frustration about the policy of the USA, especially under Bush. It's a frustration that is supposedly shared with a substantial part of today's world. (At least in Europe and the Middle East). What you are not taking into consideration is that this list is read by and contributed to, mainly by americans. How could you expect to influence them in any other way, than to make them defend their homeland and values? The handful of foreign contributors here don't have a chance in the world to achieve that. What did you achieve with your previous 3 or 4 incitements? Did you learn anything? IMO, many americans are not very interested in finding out or caring about what happens in the rest of the world. And why should they? They live in a soap-bubble world of their own. The USA is a *huge* continent. You can easily devote a whole lifetime trying to learn about it's history, geography, internal politics, etc. without having to care getting informed about the rest of the world, which is perhaps both a blessing and a curse. Sure, many say that the US today takes a much too huge space in the world, (just like a few of the people on this list), that it behaves imperialistically, that it's previous and present help to other nations was, (and is) conducted as a strategy for self-agrandisation or self-help, that it inundates the rest of the world with crap action movies, sex-fixation and values of a life-style that is detrimental to the planet, as doubtlessly is their over consumption of fossil fuels and other raw-materials. That it is a navel-gazing society, where 50% or more of the population don't even know where Finland is, and if they knew, wouldn't even care. That their arms-industry is bringing the planet to the brink of extinction, that their fundamentalist interpretation of christianity is just as bad as that of other religions, and the dollar is God. But IMV you are definitely adressing the wrong forum. The only thing you will achieve, (but perhaps that is your intention), is to raise the temperature a few degrees, bring out the usual hot-headed combattants, and sit back, while you see this thread degenerate into a muck-throwing contest that leads to nowhere. Perhaps that is also a form of catharsis, but I doubt it. It has been proved again and again, that the majority of lutenetters on this list are intensely tired with this sort of thing. For all I know, you have turned into an agent who tries to flush out those on the lutenet with anti-american sentiments, those for us, or against us to use a recent saying. At least this becomes the result of your behaviour, in which case I'm in deep s**t here! ;) No society is a homogenous society. Nowadays there seems to be a tendency to be either for or against, with the population divided roughly in the middle, as most polls show. A third informed view is usually either disregarded or ignored. See it as a sign of our times. A great majority of the americans on this list, seem to be friendly, peaceful, well-informed folks, sharing a love for the lute, (I hope) just like you and me. Some will be for Bush and american policy, some will be against. But (probably) most of them are still supporters of the
medieval lutes?
saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Arto, USA, and Michelagnolo (was:VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS - don't read if you are Bush challenged...)
Dear Goeran, Did read carefully your email. These, are for instances are political thoughts that you wrote (they were not my invention): The mighty, arrogant capitalist US policy is taking over the world today, whether we like it or not. Normal, simple, decent, peace loving people throughout the world are taking the american way to their hearts, even at the cost of loosing their own national identity, and there isn't a jot either you or I can do about it other than starting some doomsday-sect, joining Greenpeace or Amnesty or hiding in the Amazon jungle Very far from abstention, as anyone can see; and if what you've said aren't personal views: Is there a source of universal and neutral values and truth that I don't yet know? I didn't necessary said that you were giving your own views about the USA, and to me doesn't matter if it is about the US, Vietnam, Argentina or Belize. You were definitively giving your personal appreciation about political aspects, which is fine, as long as this list becomes something different from what it is and we all-or at least most of us- agree. My opinion is that either we let each other say whatever he/she wants, or we avoid completely certain subjects. Personally, I don't think we should allow ourselves to have the best of both worlds: complaining about what the other (not The Other) does, but acting at the same time in the way you condemn. That is, of course my own opinion. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
At 10:57 AM 5/6/2005, Mathias Rösel wrote: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Did you have to bore holes in the floor to let all the blood run out? ;-) Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Good question. Caroline Caroline Usher DCMB Administrative Coordinator 613-8155, Box 91000 B343 LSRC To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
Yes, I saw it too. I was dragged along against my will to what I was sure was to be typical Hollywood rubbish - but a medievalist friend of mine assures me the battle scenes were actually quite well researched (they were genuinely stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. I particularly enjoyed the inevitable Hollywood moment of truth speech of the main protagonist who, of course, plays the role of a politically correct Crusader who defeats the muslims for the good of all races, creeds, etch. (What else!) Best, Benjamin In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
Hi all, I am trying to set up a WEB page on the Varietie of lute lessons. My goal is to gather resources, and open the page to everyone's positive input - including corrections, additions, comments, etc. A detailed discussion of every piece would be fabulous, though I doubt we'll get that far. As I started work on this project, I realized that the number of questions and points to be raised is really quite vast: one of the first problems is the chronology of the pieces. When was the gaillard dedicated to the Earl of Essex, for instance? Was it after Essex's triumph in Cadiz, after his first disgrace, after his failed attempt to storm London, or after his execution? Poulton may have some answers, but I dont have the book, and generally speaking, you have a wealth of knowledge that can really make that page an important and valuable resource for everyone. Another interesting point of chronology, I had not realized that the Varietie and the Musical Banquet, also published by Robert Dowland in 1610, had to be understood as companion pieces in a way: both have a very strongly european flavor, which is not insignificant. The interesting part is that by adding resources together, new questions seem to pop up - for instance, a simple HTML link to another version of the same piece really puts that piece in a different perspective. Even figuring out the intricate social or family connections between the various dedicatees of the pieces - lady Rich and Essex, for instance - can give us some new insights into the music. Obviously, technical aspects of the music and the prefaces are also a rich source of topics for discussion adn exploration. So, I really hope I can entice you to contribute to this on-going, in-progress project. See http://cbsr26.ucr.edu/wlkfiles/Publications/Varietie/VarietieOfLuteLessons.html best wishes, Alain To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Arto, USA, and Michelagnolo (was:VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS - don
Dear Paolo, Sorry for the delay in my reply. Your email came at a very busy time and I did not get a chance to read all of it. I do appreciate the posting of your research on the Mozart effect. It shows that you have spent considerable time to come up with the information on studies. It was interesting to me because I had heard that baroque music in general had a positive effect on learning but then I had not seen any scientific studies to test this and Mozart was not a composer of the baroque era. Have you heard anything about this? Grazie ancora, Marion -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 6, 2005 3:43 AM To: arielabra [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: kaleido1 [EMAIL PROTECTED], lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: Arto, USA, and Michelagnolo (was:VERY OFF TOPIC: POLITICS - don Days ago I wrote an e-mail about the Mozart eccet on this list, collecting some relevant abstract on the subject; follow-up answers? None. Arto two days ago wrote an off-topic letter about Bush et al. Follow-up: three or more answers so far. Conclusion: just a little disappointment. Paolo Dear G=F6ran, I will not get into the discussion myself although, as most of you, have my own views and opinions. In the past, I told Arto and some of the other members what I think about posting this sort of messages to the list. What I personally find to be quite an error, is that you don't follow your own advise (...This is precisely why I have always abstained from trying to propagate religious or political views on this list. We've seen where it leads to. It can't be said enough times. There are heaps and heaps of lists, where people can discuss political or religious matters to their hearts content. There are very few lists, where lovers of the lute are able to do the same. Do you want to pollute it?...) and you tell Arto that he shouldn't do something that you've done yourself extensively, and all in the same email. Your opinions are also as political (whether we-you like it-them or not) and one sided as Arto's, and in strict terms also out of place in this list, according to what you think (and I) it is conceived for. For many years I've been participating in political debates, writing in magazines and discussion groups. I'd be happy to provide information about all these to any of you, if exists the necessity of expressing and sharing thoughts with other individuals about all that sort of items. Here and now, my humble opinion is that I'm happy writing and reading about lutes and lute music here, and uncomfortable with either Arto's of anyone else's political messages. In the past I made the mistake of getting into the arguments taking place on the list, and I regret. Please, excuse my English, and keep in mind that I might not be aware of the courtesy formula for this kind of things. Regards, a -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6X velocizzare la tua navigazione a 56k? 6X Web Accelerator di Libero! Scaricalo su INTERNET GRATIS 6X http://www.libero.it
Re: VERY OFF TOPIC: God speaks on murder
Copyright 2001 Onion, Inc., All rights reserved. http://www.theonion.com/ 26 September 2001 NEW YORK Responding to recent events on Earth, God, the omniscient creator-deity worshipped by billions of followers of various faiths for more than 6,000 years, angrily clarified His longtime stance against humans killing each other Monday. Look, I don't know, maybe I haven't made myself completely clear, so for the record, here it is again, said the Lord, His divine face betraying visible emotion during a press conference near the site of the fallen Twin Towers. Somehow, people keep coming up with the idea that I want them to kill their neighbor. Well, I don't. And to be honest, I'm really getting sick and tired of it. Get it straight. Not only do I not want anybody to kill anyone, but I specifically commanded you not to, in really simple terms that anybody ought to be able to understand. Worshipped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike, God said His name has been invoked countless times over the centuries as a reason to kill in what He called an unending cycle of violence. I don't care how holy somebody claims to be, God said. If a person tells you it's My will that they kill someone, they're wrong. Got it? I don't care what religion you are, or who you think your enemy is, here it is one more time: No killing, in My name or anyone else's, ever again. The press conference came as a surprise to humankind, as God rarely intervenes in earthly affairs. As a matter of longstanding policy, He has traditionally left the task of interpreting His message and divine will to clerics, rabbis, priests, imams, and Biblical scholars. Theologians and laymen alike have been given the task of pondering His ineffable mysteries, deciding for themselves what to do as a matter of faith. His decision to manifest on the material plane was motivated by the deep sense of shock, outrage, and sorrow He felt over the Sept. 11 violence carried out in His name, and over its dire potential ramifications around the globe. I tried to put it in the simplest possible terms for you people, so you'd get it straight, because I thought it was pretty important, said God, called Yahweh and Allah respectively in the Judaic and Muslim traditions. I guess I figured I'd left no real room for confusion after putting it in a four-word sentence with one-syllable words, on the tablets I gave to Moses. How much more clear can I get? But somehow, it all gets twisted around and, next thing you know, somebody's spouting off some nonsense about, 'God says I have to kill this guy, God wants me to kill that guy, it's God's will,' God continued. It's not God's will, all right? News flash: 'God's will' equals 'Don't murder people.' Worse yet, many of the worst violators claim that their actions are justified by passages in the Bible, Torah, and Qur'an. To be honest, there's some contradictory stuff in there, okay? God said. So I can see how it could be pretty misleading. I admit it--My bad. I did My best to inspire them, but a lot of imperfect human agents have misinterpreted My message over the millennia. Frankly, much of the material that got in there is dogmatic, doctrinal bullshit. I turn My head for a second and, suddenly, all this stuff about homosexuality gets into Leviticus, and everybody thinks it's God's will to kill gays. It absolutely drives Me up the wall. God praised the overwhelming majority of His Muslim followers as wonderful, pious people, calling the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks rare exceptions. This whole medieval concept of the jihad, or holy war, had all but vanished from the Muslim world in, like, the 10th century, and with good reason, God said. There's no such thing as a holy war, only unholy ones. The vast majority of Muslims in this world reject the murderous actions of these radical extremists, just like the vast majority of Christians in America are pissed off over those two bigots on The 700 Club. Continued God, Read the book: 'Allah is kind, Allah is beautiful, Allah is merciful.' It goes on and on that way, page after page. But, no, some a$$holes have to come along and revive this stupid holy-war crap just to further their own hateful agenda. So now, everybody thinks Muslims are all murderous barbarians. Thanks, Taliban: 1,000 years of pan-Islamic cultural progress down the drain. God stressed that His remarks were not directed exclusively at Islamic extremists, but rather at anyone whose ideological zealotry overrides his or her ability to comprehend the core message of all world religions. I don't care what faith you are, everybody's been making this same mistake since the dawn of time, God said. The Muslims massacre the Hindus, the Hindus massacre the Muslims. The Buddhists, everybody massacres the Buddhists. The Jews, don't even get me started on the hardline,
Something about Freedom
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/herman200505060807.asp ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
medieval lutes? and Maalouf
Hi, I don't want neither go off topic, nor open another can of worms, but nevertheless would like to bring to your attention a beautiful book, very useful in our actual context: CRUSADES THROUGH ARAB EYES -- by Amin Maalouf. It is originally written in french (the subtitle in that language reads: 'La barbarie chretienne en Terre sainte') by this fine libanese writer, who also wrote, among other books, SAMARCAND and LEO AFRICANUS. As a libanese he is at home and fluent in both european and non-european frames of mind. After reading CRUSADES... it is perhaps lesser difficult to understand what is happening today in the islamic world... Saludos, Manolo Laguillo -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Something about Freedom
Craig Allen scripsit: http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/herman200505060807.asp Craig Allen, spare us, please. This article is rather idiotic, and it contains some half-truths and lies. RT ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Something about Freedom
[EMAIL PROTECTED] scripsit: Craig Allen scripsit: http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/herman200505060807.asp Craig Allen, spare us, please. This article is rather idiotic, and it contains some half-truths and lies. RT And BTW, it has no lute content. RT ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes? and Maalouf
I don't want neither go off topic, nor open another can of worms, but nevertheless would like to bring to your attention a beautiful book, very useful in our actual context: CRUSADES THROUGH ARAB EYES -- by Amin Maalouf. It is originally written in french (the subtitle in that language reads: 'La barbarie chretienne en Terre sainte') by this fine libanese writer, who also wrote, among other books, SAMARCAND and LEO AFRICANUS. As a libanese he is at home and fluent in both european and non-european frames of mind. After reading CRUSADES... it is perhaps lesser difficult to understand what is happening today in the islamic world... I doubt it. Medieval accounts of atrocities are often faulty in their statistics (few are not). One particular example is the sack of Florianow ca. 1650 by the joint force of Cossaks and Tartars. The contemporary chronicle reports casualties at 60,000 and 2 survivors. The latter is true indeed. But at hte time Cracow, the capital of Poland had a population of 20,000, and Florianow couldn't have more than 6,000. In general Arab historians are no more immune to tendentiousness than Europeans, but in recent years they've really been losing self-control.. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. so, it was him! Do you happen to know, of which recording it was taken? Best wishes, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Galilei
G.R. Crona [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Listening to Paul Beier's recording of the Michelagnolo Galilei 1620 publication, the second track, Sonata in C-major consists of a toccata and two voltae. The first volta has a very beautiful division not found in the facsimile. Did Beier make the division himself? Is it found in the Werl addenda published in the supplement of Lute News april 2002? Is it otherwise available somewhere? (I could pick it note by note from the recording, but would prefer not to, if it can be found somewhere in an easier way). Michelagnolo's music strikes a deep-felt chord these days... still somebody? Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes? and Maalouf
I don't want neither go off topic, nor open another can of worms, but nevertheless would like to bring to your attention a beautiful book, very useful in our actual context: CRUSADES THROUGH ARAB EYES -- by Amin Maalouf. It is originally written in french (the subtitle in that language reads: 'La barbarie chretienne en Terre sainte') by this fine libanese writer,who also wrote, among other books, SAMARCAND and LEO AFRICANUS. As a libanese he is at home and fluent in both european and non-european frames of mind. After reading CRUSADES... it is perhaps lesser difficult to understand what is happening today in the islamic world... you mean that memories of most ancient humiliations by Europeans (several crusades, Napoleon) are being refreshed and are being used as arguments and accusations by certain muslim authors? Yes, that has already been going on for decades in parts of Arabic countries. It's part of muslim-pan-arabic and Iranian rhetorics. As for atrocities during the crusades, you might add the killing of thousands of Jews in the Rhine area (1st crusade), the bloody conquest of orthodox-christian Byzantine, the selling of several thousands of volunteering children into slavery by Christian dealers, and so on. Those for who the crusades were a booming success were cities like Venice where ships were supplied and economic ties with Arabic partners were intensified. One of the ways ouds and lutes were brought to Europe. Regards, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Tremaine was right.
In her novel, Music and Silence, Rose Tremaine used a myth about Christian IV having sound channels in his castle, so he could hear in his state room what the band was playing in the basement. Now 3 such channels have actually been found. Go to: http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/pdf/Musikanal-%20Vinterstuen.jpg for a fascinating pic of a hole in the floor. Arne. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Galilei
Mathias I have not heard the recording but the division or double might possibly have been improvised by Mr. Beier, as was the practice by lewters ond others from that time period.There is a good article in an old LSA newsletter (80's or early 90's I think) where someone uses Galelei's works to demonstrate how to do this. I love this manuscript because it heavily leans in the direction of the broken style of variation. Sal Salvaggio __ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Galilei
Sal, I too really like Galilei's book. It is not however a manuscript, but an engraved work... Alain Sal Salvaggio wrote: Mathias I have not heard the recording but the division or double might possibly have been improvised by Mr. Beier, as was the practice by lewters ond others from that time period.There is a good article in an old LSA newsletter (80's or early 90's I think) where someone uses Galelei's works to demonstrate how to do this. I love this manuscript because it heavily leans in the direction of the broken style of variation. Sal Salvaggio __ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
RE: medieval lutes?
It should be noted for those who don't know, that this film was directed and co-produced by Ridley Scott, who is not of Hollywood. He is one of the great storytellers of cinema. Less importantly, his work is noted for meticulous production design. The current offering is one of a few military epics, of which I am very fond of The Duellists. -Original Message- From: Benjamin Narvey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:30 AM To: Mathias Rösel Cc: Lutelist Subject: Re: medieval lutes? Yes, I saw it too. I was dragged along against my will to what I was sure was to be typical Hollywood rubbish - but a medievalist friend of mine assures me the battle scenes were actually quite well researched (they were genuinely stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. I particularly enjoyed the inevitable Hollywood moment of truth speech of the main protagonist who, of course, plays the role of a politically correct Crusader who defeats the muslims for the good of all races, creeds, etch. (What else!) Best, Benjamin In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
RE: medieval lutes?
me too. i thought the negative criticism it received because keith carradine didn't spic wiz a frenge accsont was silly. --- Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It should be noted for those who don't know, that this film was directed and co-produced by Ridley Scott, who is not of Hollywood. He is one of the great storytellers of cinema. Less importantly, his work is noted for meticulous production design. The current offering is one of a few military epics, of which I am very fond of The Duellists. -Original Message- From: Benjamin Narvey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:30 AM To: Mathias Rösel Cc: Lutelist Subject: Re: medieval lutes? Yes, I saw it too. I was dragged along against my will to what I was sure was to be typical Hollywood rubbish - but a medievalist friend of mine assures me the battle scenes were actually quite well researched (they were genuinely stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. I particularly enjoyed the inevitable Hollywood moment of truth speech of the main protagonist who, of course, plays the role of a politically correct Crusader who defeats the muslims for the good of all races, creeds, etch. (What else!) Best, Benjamin In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ___ Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
RE: medieval lutes?
Yeah, what a joke. We are supposed to think that it's ok to present Napoleonic officers speaking English, but only if with an accent. Whatever -- the film won best debut at Cannes. -Original Message- From: bill kilpatrick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 4:00 PM To: Stuart LeBlanc; Lutelist Subject: RE: medieval lutes? me too. i thought the negative criticism it received because keith carradine didn't spic wiz a frenge accsont was silly. --- Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It should be noted for those who don't know, that this film was directed and co-produced by Ridley Scott, who is not of Hollywood. He is one of the great storytellers of cinema. Less importantly, his work is noted for meticulous production design. The current offering is one of a few military epics, of which I am very fond of The Duellists. -Original Message- From: Benjamin Narvey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:30 AM To: Mathias Rösel Cc: Lutelist Subject: Re: medieval lutes? Yes, I saw it too. I was dragged along against my will to what I was sure was to be typical Hollywood rubbish - but a medievalist friend of mine assures me the battle scenes were actually quite well researched (they were genuinely stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. I particularly enjoyed the inevitable Hollywood moment of truth speech of the main protagonist who, of course, plays the role of a politically correct Crusader who defeats the muslims for the good of all races, creeds, etch. (What else!) Best, Benjamin In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ___ Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: Galilei
Dear all, Listening to Paul Beier's recording of the Michelagnolo Galilei 1620 publication, the second track, Sonata in C-major consists of a toccata and two voltae. The first volta has a very beautiful division not found in the facsimile. Did Beier make the division himself? Is it found in the Werl addenda published in the supplement of Lute News april 2002? Is it otherwise available somewhere? (I could pick it note by note from the recording, but would prefer not to, if it can be found somewhere in an easier way). Michelagnolo's music strikes a deep-felt chord these days... In the facsimile edition published by Tree Edition, the handwritten added Werl-variations are easily readable in the C-major pieces. Very good music. As all the book! To my taste M. Galilei is one of the most clever composers of all the lute period. All the best Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
If I'm not mistaken, I think it was all written originally for the film. All best, Benjamin In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. so, it was him! Do you happen to know, of which recording it was taken? Best wishes, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Posts which are off-topic.
Herbert: Does that mean that we should delve into the subject of having sex with animals on the Lute Net, just to keep things from becoming to rigidly on-topic? Just asking. Vance Wood. - Original Message - From: Herbert Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 9:45 AM Subject: Posts which are off-topic. I think being rigidly on-topic is bad. I think that art which is isolated from the real world is not viable. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
Mathias Rösel scripsit: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Eric Redlinger has recorded an excellent set of these with a soprano, available on Magnatune.com. RT ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Posts which are off-topic.
Dear Friends, Actually, you could make any topic relate to lutes. All you have to do is write a lute song (even a lewd song) about it. There are some examples of carnival songs from the renaissance period on rather off-color topics. You can find them on various CDs. However, I for one won't be singing any lute songs about lewd topics regardless of when they were written. Speaking of lutes, is anyone aware of an intabulation of D. Scarlatti's Sonata in E, Longo listing No. 23? Cheers, Marion Mezzosoprano -Original Message- From: Vance Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 6, 2005 4:38 PM To: lute list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, Herbert Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Posts which are off-topic. Herbert: Does that mean that we should delve into the subject of having sex with animals on the Lute Net, just to keep things from becoming to rigidly on-topic? Just asking. Vance Wood. - Original Message - From: Herbert Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 9:45 AM Subject: Posts which are off-topic. I think being rigidly on-topic is bad. I think that art which is isolated from the real world is not viable. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
