[LUTE] Re: catgut

2010-12-27 Thread Roman Turovsky
That's tasty food for thought to catgut integralists on this list, and a 
bite out

of their ideal of authenticity.
I already imagine Dan Larson chasing a suitable kitty, because Anthony Hind 
has just ordered a set.

RT




- Original Message - 
From: "Jaroslaw Lipski" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 9:34 AM
Subject: [LUTE] catgut


Although this subject was discussed couple of month ago, quite 
unexpectedly I found an interesting information in a book on cats which 
casts some new light on this term. In "Cat watching" Desmond Morris asks 
why sheep gut should be perversely referred to as catgut, and suggests 
that the clue lies in the earliest use of the term. At the beginning of 
the seventeenth century, one author wrote of fiddlers "tickling the dryed 
gutts of a mewing cat". Later we hear of a man upset "at every twang of 
the cat-gut, as if he heard at the moment the wailing of the helpless 
animal that had been sacrificed to harmony". These references come from a 
period when domestic cats were all too often the victims of persecution 
and torture, and the sound of squealing cats was not unfamiliar to human 
ears. In addition, there was the noise of the caterwauling at times when 
feral tomcats were arguing over females in heat. Together, these 
characteristic feline sounds provided the obvious basis for a comparison 
with the din created by inexpert musicians scraping at their stringed 
instruments. In the imaginations of the tormented listeners, the 
inappropriate sheep gut became transformed into the appropriate catgut - a 
vivid fiction to replace a dull fact (as he suggests).
Hmm...quite interesting...though he didn't enclose any bibliography 
(pity!).


Best wishes for the coming New Year!

Jaroslaw Lipski



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html






[LUTE] Re: catgut

2010-12-27 Thread Edward Martin
If Dan chases a kitty for gut, he does so sheepishly.

ed

At 08:51 AM 12/27/2010, Roman Turovsky wrote:
>That's tasty food for thought to catgut integralists on this list, 
>and a bite out
>of their ideal of authenticity.
>I already imagine Dan Larson chasing a suitable kitty, because 
>Anthony Hind has just ordered a set.
>RT
>
>
>
>
>- Original Message - From: "Jaroslaw Lipski" 
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 9:34 AM
>Subject: [LUTE] catgut
>
>
>>Although this subject was discussed couple of month ago, quite 
>>unexpectedly I found an interesting information in a book on cats 
>>which casts some new light on this term. In "Cat watching" Desmond 
>>Morris asks why sheep gut should be perversely referred to as 
>>catgut, and suggests that the clue lies in the earliest use of the 
>>term. At the beginning of the seventeenth century, one author wrote 
>>of fiddlers "tickling the dryed gutts of a mewing cat". Later we 
>>hear of a man upset "at every twang of the cat-gut, as if he heard 
>>at the moment the wailing of the helpless animal that had been 
>>sacrificed to harmony". These references come from a period when 
>>domestic cats were all too often the victims of persecution and 
>>torture, and the sound of squealing cats was not unfamiliar to 
>>human ears. In addition, there was the noise of the caterwauling at 
>>times when feral tomcats were arguing over females in heat. 
>>Together, these characteristic feline sounds provided the obvious 
>>basis for a comparison with the din created by inexpert musicians 
>>scraping at their stringed instruments. In the imaginations of the 
>>tormented listeners, the inappropriate sheep gut became transformed 
>>into the appropriate catgut - a vivid fiction to replace a dull 
>>fact (as he suggests).
>>Hmm...quite interesting...though he didn't enclose any 
>>bibliography (pity!).
>>
>>Best wishes for the coming New Year!
>>
>>Jaroslaw Lipski
>>
>>
>>
>>To get on or off this list see list information at
>>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  e...@gamutstrings.com
voice:  (218) 728-1202
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
http://www.myspace.com/edslute





[LUTE] Re: catgut

2010-12-27 Thread howard posner
On Dec 27, 2010, at 6:51 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

> That's tasty food for thought to catgut integralists on this list, and a bite 
> out
> of their ideal of authenticity.
> I already imagine Dan Larson chasing a suitable kitty, because Anthony Hind 
> has just ordered a set.
> RT

Morris' pseudo-etymological conjecture (hardly unique to him) may be plausible 
for fiddlers, but any lutenist who could manage to make his instrument sound 
like a cat of any kind would have my enduring respect.


A thousand pardons if I've asked this before, but is string material called 
"cat" gut in French, German, or Italian? 


> - Original Message - From: "Jaroslaw Lipski" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 9:34 AM
> Subject: [LUTE] catgut
> 
> 
>> Although this subject was discussed couple of month ago, quite unexpectedly 
>> I found an interesting information in a book on cats which casts some new 
>> light on this term. In "Cat watching" Desmond Morris asks why sheep gut 
>> should be perversely referred to as catgut, and suggests that the clue lies 
>> in the earliest use of the term. At the beginning of the seventeenth 
>> century, one author wrote of fiddlers "tickling the dryed gutts of a mewing 
>> cat". Later we hear of a man upset "at every twang of the cat-gut, as if he 
>> heard at the moment the wailing of the helpless animal that had been 
>> sacrificed to harmony". These references come from a period when domestic 
>> cats were all too often the victims of persecution and torture, and the 
>> sound of squealing cats was not unfamiliar to human ears. In addition, there 
>> was the noise of the caterwauling at times when feral tomcats were arguing 
>> over females in heat. Together, these characteristic feline sounds provided 
>> the obvious basis for a !
 comparison with the din created by inexpert musicians scraping at their 
stringed instruments. In the imaginations of the tormented listeners, the 
inappropriate sheep gut became transformed into the appropriate catgut - a 
vivid fiction to replace a dull fact (as he suggests).
>> Hmm...quite interesting...though he didn't enclose any bibliography 
>> (pity!).
>> 
>> Best wishes for the coming New Year!
>> 
>> Jaroslaw Lipski
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 


--


[LUTE] Re: catgut

2010-12-27 Thread Roman Turovsky
That's tasty food for thought to catgut integralists on this list, and a 
bite out

of their ideal of authenticity.
I already imagine Dan Larson chasing a suitable kitty, because Anthony 
Hind has just ordered a set.

RT
Morris' pseudo-etymological conjecture (hardly unique to him) may be 
plausible for fiddlers, but any lutenist
who could manage to make his instrument sound like a cat of any kind would 
have my enduring respect.



A thousand pardons if I've asked this before, but is string material 
called "cat" gut in French, German, or Italian?



Certainly not.
RT





From: "Jaroslaw Lipski" 
Although this subject was discussed couple of month ago, quite 
unexpectedly I found an interesting information in a book on cats which 
casts some new light on this term. In "Cat watching" Desmond Morris asks 
why sheep gut should be perversely referred to as catgut, and suggests 
that the clue lies in the earliest use of the term. At the beginning of 
the seventeenth century, one author wrote of fiddlers "tickling the 
dryed gutts of a mewing cat". Later we hear of a man upset "at every 
twang of the cat-gut, as if he heard at the moment the wailing of the 
helpless animal that had been sacrificed to harmony". These references 
come from a period when domestic cats were all too often the victims of 
persecution and torture, and the sound of squealing cats was not 
unfamiliar to human ears. In addition, there was the noise of the 
caterwauling at times when feral tomcats were arguing over females in 
heat. Together, these characteristic feline sounds provided the obvious 
basis for a !
comparison with the din created by inexpert musicians scraping at their 
stringed instruments. In the imaginations of the tormented listeners, the 
inappropriate sheep gut became transformed into the appropriate catgut - a 
vivid fiction to replace a dull fact (as he suggests).
Hmm...quite interesting...though he didn't enclose any bibliography 
(pity!).


Best wishes for the coming New Year!

Jaroslaw Lipski



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html






--





[LUTE] Re: catgut

2010-12-27 Thread Ron Andrico
   Then there is the reference to caterpillars that produce silk...
   RA
   > Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 08:29:34 -0800
   > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   > From: howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: catgut
   >
   > On Dec 27, 2010, at 6:51 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
   >
   > > That's tasty food for thought to catgut integralists on this list,
   and a bite out
   > > of their ideal of authenticity.
   > > I already imagine Dan Larson chasing a suitable kitty, because
   Anthony Hind has just ordered a set.
   > > RT
   >
   > Morris' pseudo-etymological conjecture (hardly unique to him) may be
   plausible for fiddlers, but any lutenist who could manage to make his
   instrument sound like a cat of any kind would have my enduring respect.
   >
   >
   > A thousand pardons if I've asked this before, but is string material
   called "cat" gut in French, German, or Italian?
   >
   >
   > > - Original Message - From: "Jaroslaw Lipski"
   
   > > To: 
   > > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 9:34 AM
   > > Subject: [LUTE] catgut
   > >
   > >
   > >> Although this subject was discussed couple of month ago, quite
   unexpectedly I found an interesting information in a book on cats which
   casts some new light on this term. In "Cat watching" Desmond Morris
   asks why sheep gut should be perversely referred to as catgut, and
   suggests that the clue lies in the earliest use of the term. At the
   beginning of the seventeenth century, one author wrote of fiddlers
   "tickling the dryed gutts of a mewing cat". Later we hear of a man
   upset "at every twang of the cat-gut, as if he heard at the moment the
   wailing of the helpless animal that had been sacrificed to harmony".
   These references come from a period when domestic cats were all too
   often the victims of persecution and torture, and the sound of
   squealing cats was not unfamiliar to human ears. In addition, there was
   the noise of the caterwauling at times when feral tomcats were arguing
   over females in heat. Together, these characteristic feline sounds
   provided the obvious basis for a !
   > comparison with the din created by inexpert musicians scraping at
   their stringed instruments. In the imaginations of the tormented
   listeners, the inappropriate sheep gut became transformed into the
   appropriate catgut - a vivid fiction to replace a dull fact (as he
   suggests).
   > >> Hmm...quite interesting...though he didn't enclose any
   bibliography (pity!).
   > >>
   > >> Best wishes for the coming New Year!
   > >>
   > >> Jaroslaw Lipski
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >> To get on or off this list see list information at
   > >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   > >
   > >
   >
   >
   > --
   --



[LUTE] Re: catgut

2010-12-27 Thread Eugene C. Braig IV
..or "cat" as possibly derived from "kit", an antiquated folk reference to
fiddles.  ...or "cat" as an abbreviation of "cattle" in general reference to
any ruminant (or specifically sheep) from which a large length of gut for
string fabrication might come.  Take your pick.  I doubt this one will be
conclusively resolved any time soon, and even if it is, I doubt it will
substantially change my appreciation of the music or of playing it.

Eugene



> -Original Message-
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
> Behalf Of Ron Andrico
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 12:51 PM
> To: howardpos...@ca.rr.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: catgut
> 
>Then there is the reference to caterpillars that produce silk...
>RA
>> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 08:29:34 -0800
>> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> From: howardpos...@ca.rr.com
>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: catgut
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2010, at 6:51 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
>>
>> > That's tasty food for thought to catgut integralists on this list,
>and a bite out
>> > of their ideal of authenticity.
>> > I already imagine Dan Larson chasing a suitable kitty, because
>Anthony Hind has just ordered a set.
>> > RT
>>
>> Morris' pseudo-etymological conjecture (hardly unique to him) may be
>plausible for fiddlers, but any lutenist who could manage to make his
>instrument sound like a cat of any kind would have my enduring respect.
>>
>>
>> A thousand pardons if I've asked this before, but is string material
>called "cat" gut in French, German, or Italian?
>>
>>
>> > - Original Message - From: "Jaroslaw Lipski"
>
>> > To: 
>> > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 9:34 AM
>> > Subject: [LUTE] catgut
>> >
>> >
>> >> Although this subject was discussed couple of month ago, quite
>unexpectedly I found an interesting information in a book on cats which
>casts some new light on this term. In "Cat watching" Desmond Morris
>asks why sheep gut should be perversely referred to as catgut, and
>suggests that the clue lies in the earliest use of the term. At the
>beginning of the seventeenth century, one author wrote of fiddlers
>"tickling the dryed gutts of a mewing cat". Later we hear of a man
>upset "at every twang of the cat-gut, as if he heard at the moment the
>wailing of the helpless animal that had been sacrificed to harmony".
>These references come from a period when domestic cats were all too
>often the victims of persecution and torture, and the sound of
>squealing cats was not unfamiliar to human ears. In addition, there was
>the noise of the caterwauling at times when feral tomcats were arguing
>over females in heat. Together, these characteristic feline sounds
>provided the obvious basis for a !
>> comparison with the din created by inexpert musicians scraping at
>their stringed instruments. In the imaginations of the tormented
>listeners, the inappropriate sheep gut became transformed into the
>appropriate catgut - a vivid fiction to replace a dull fact (as he
>suggests).
>> >> Hmm...quite interesting...though he didn't enclose any
>bibliography (pity!).
>> >>
>> >> Best wishes for the coming New Year!
>> >>
>> >> Jaroslaw Lipski
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>--




[LUTE] Re: catgut

2010-12-27 Thread alexander
Just for the amusement, and i hope John Downing would not mind:


CATGUT:  COMM. 1567 REVISITED



A basic assumption today is that all lute strings of the 16th and 17th C were 
made from ‘gut’- invariably taken to mean the intestines of a lamb or sheep. 
Yet, historical references to lute string materials are rare and, when they do 
occur, include materials other than the intestinal fibre of sheep. 

Robert Dowland (1610) and Mace – the two most often quoted historical sources 
concerning lute strings – make no mention at all about the materials used for 
fabricating strings. Margaret Board (1660 – 1672) does. She says that lute 
strings were made from “Sheepes and Catts gutte”. Board is clearly making a 
distinction between sheep’s gut and a material called catgut.(1)



So what was catgut?



Samuel Pepys was an angler of sorts. An entry in his diary for January 
1659/1660 records that “This day Mr Caesar told me a pretty experiment of his, 
of angling with a minikin, a gut string varnished over which keeps it from 
swelling and is beyond any hair for strength and smallness. The secret I like 
mightily!” (Comm. 1567).



Pepys was using angling terminology.

Early records confirm that anglers made their fishing lines from horsehair (2). 
The final connection between line and hook had to be a fine, strong, 
transparent line, invisible to a fish. This short length of line, known as a 
‘cast’ or ‘leader’ was usually made from white horsehair  - referred to by 
anglers, simply, as ‘hair.’

Horsehair used in commerce today – taken from the tail of the animal – measures 
from 0.003 to 0.011 inches in diameter. Its diameter and strength depend upon 
the breed of horse and its diet.



We know, from the writings of Thomas Mace (1676), that strings called 
‘minikins’ were used for lute 1st, 2nd, and 3rd courses as well as for small 
octave strings (particularly the 6th octave).

Pepsy’s minikin string was “ beyond any hair for strength and smallness”, so 
either lute treble strings in the 17th C were a lot smaller in diameter than we 
imagine today or horsehair available to anglers of the period was quite a bit 
larger in diameter (and stronger) than is generally obtainable today. I believe 
the latter proposition to be the case.



During the first quarter of the 18th C, an innovative material for freshwater 
fishermen came on to the market.

The new material, that was to eventually replace horsehair for leaders - as 
best quality horsehair became increasingly difficult to obtain - was a 
transparent, monofilament line of silk known as ‘silkworm gut’- or just ‘gut’ 
to fishermen.

According to Herd (3), silkworm gut was first advertised for sale to anglers in 
1722 and the first angling book to describe the manufacture and use of silkworm 
gut for leaders was “The Compleat Fisherman” by James  Saunders published in 
1724. In his book, Saunders makes direct comparison between silkworm gut (used 
for angling) and catgut (used for viols and violins). He also confirms that 
these strings ‘resembled a single hair’ (4).





SILK FILAMENT AND SILKWORM GUT



Silk filament, used for making silk fabric, is produced by the caterpillar of 
the ‘Bombyx Mori’ moth domesticated for this purpose by the Chinese – way back 
in the mists of antiquity. The caterpillar spins a cocoon, prior to pupation, 
containing a continuous double filament of silk around 3000 to 4000 yards (2800 
to 3700 metres) in length - each filament being about 0.001 inch (0.025 mm) in 
diameter. This strong, fine filament, after treatment and twisting into thread, 
was used, not only for weaving into silk fabric, but also for making articles 
such as bow strings and musical instrument strings used in Middle and Far 
Eastern cultures (5).

The technology required for silk production was introduced to the Middle East 
before 600 A.D.  By the 11th C, the Arabs had established the industry in North 
Africa, Spain and Sicily. Italy was to follow in the 12th C. By the 16th C, 
France had become a major centre for silk production.



 Silkworm gut – known to the Chinese centuries before it became generally 
available in Europe – is a by-product of the silk industry.

At maturity, the caterpillar of the silkworm moth measures about 3 inches long 
by about 0.375 inches in diameter. The silk is produced in two sacs - weighing 
about 25% of total body weight

Silkworm gut - prepared for use as angling leaders - is made by soaking the 
mature caterpillar in vinegar to kill it and to condition the contents of the 
sac. The caterpillar is then split open and each sac is stretched and set on a 
frame to dry – the more each sac is stretched, the smaller is the diameter of 
the strand produced. After cleaning, the strands are graded according to 
quality and diameter. A further refinement is to pass the strands through 
sizing dies in order to produce precise and consistent diameters. These are 
known as ‘drawn’ gut strands.



  

[LUTE] Re: catgut

2010-12-27 Thread Jarosław Lipski
It doesn't rule out a possibility, that this term could be  borrowed 
from fiddlers world thou.
As I said there is no bibliography given, so it's difficult to check 
that data out, but I cited it as one of possible hypothesis.


JL

W dniu 2010-12-27 17:29, howard posner pisze:

On Dec 27, 2010, at 6:51 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:


That's tasty food for thought to catgut integralists on this list, and a bite 
out
of their ideal of authenticity.
I already imagine Dan Larson chasing a suitable kitty, because Anthony Hind has 
just ordered a set.
RT

Morris' pseudo-etymological conjecture (hardly unique to him) may be plausible 
for fiddlers, but any lutenist who could manage to make his instrument sound 
like a cat of any kind would have my enduring respect.


A thousand pardons if I've asked this before, but is string material called 
"cat" gut in French, German, or Italian?



- Original Message - From: "Jaroslaw Lipski"
To:
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 9:34 AM
Subject: [LUTE] catgut



Although this subject was discussed couple of month ago, quite unexpectedly I found an interesting 
information in a book on cats which casts some new light on this term. In "Cat watching" Desmond 
Morris asks why sheep gut should be perversely referred to as catgut, and suggests that the clue lies in the 
earliest use of the term. At the beginning of the seventeenth century, one author wrote of fiddlers 
"tickling the dryed gutts of a mewing cat". Later we hear of a man upset "at every twang of 
the cat-gut, as if he heard at the moment the wailing of the helpless animal that had been sacrificed to 
harmony". These references come from a period when domestic cats were all too often the victims of 
persecution and torture, and the sound of squealing cats was not unfamiliar to human ears. In addition, there 
was the noise of the caterwauling at times when feral tomcats were arguing over females in heat. Together, 
these characteristic feline sounds provided the obvious basis for a!

 !

  comparison with the din created by inexpert musicians scraping at their 
stringed instruments. In the imaginations of the tormented listeners, the 
inappropriate sheep gut became transformed into the appropriate catgut - a 
vivid fiction to replace a dull fact (as he suggests).

Hmm...quite interesting...though he didn't enclose any bibliography (pity!).

Best wishes for the coming New Year!

Jaroslaw Lipski



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




--








[LUTE] Re: catgut

2010-12-28 Thread Ed Durbrow
   Sounds pretty farfetched to me, but what do I know? I had heard that
   cat is just short for cattle, which of course includes sheep.

   On Dec 27, 2010, at 11:34 PM, JarosAA'aw Lipski wrote:

   Although this subject was discussed couple of month ago, quite
   unexpectedly I found an interesting information in a book on cats which
   casts some new light on this term. In "Cat watching" Desmond Morris
   asks why sheep gut should be perversely referred to as catgut, and
   suggests that the clue lies in the earliest use of the term. At the
   beginning of the seventeenth century, one author wrote of fiddlers
   "tickling the dryed gutts of a mewing cat". Later we hear of a man
   upset "at every twang of the cat-gut, as if he heard at the moment the
   wailing of the helpless animal that had been sacrificed to harmony".
   These references come from a period when domestic cats were all too
   often the victims of persecution and torture, and the sound of
   squealing cats was not unfamiliar to human ears. In addition, there was
   the noise of the caterwauling at times when feral tomcats were arguing
   over females in heat. Together, these characteristic feline sounds
   provided the obvious basis for a comparison with the din created by
   inexpert musicians scraping at their stringed instruments. In the
   imaginations of the tormented listeners, the inappropriate sheep gut
   became transformed into the appropriate catgut - a vivid fiction to
   replace a dull fact (as he suggests).
   Hmm...quite interesting...though he didn't enclose any bibliography
   (pity!).
   Best wishes for the coming New Year!
   Jaroslaw Lipski
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   Ed Durbrow
   Saitama, Japan
   [2]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
   [3]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   2. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
   3. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/



[LUTE] Re: catgut

2010-12-28 Thread David Tayler
Could be a cat, but more likely a kit--a violin
the term catgut is used to describe violins early on, so kitgut makes 
a certain amount of sense.
On the other hand, who knows? It could be cats.
An old term is kattedarm

dt



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[LUTE] Re: catgut

2010-12-29 Thread Martin Shepherd

Dear All,

I don't know whether Downing was misquoted, but the ascription of the 
"Sheepes and Catts gutte" quote to Margaret Board is incorrect.  It is 
found in the Burwell lute tutor (c.1670), which was almost certainly 
copied by Mary Burwell from an anonymous source, probably her teacher.


Martin



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[LUTE] Re: catgut

2010-12-29 Thread Jarosław Lipski

Martin,
Thank you  for this correction. I was influenced by Alexander, but you 
are right that citation is from Mary Burwell - chapter IV ("Of the 
strings of the lute, and stringing thereof;and of the frets and tuning 
of the lute"). She writes: "The strings are made of sheep's and cat's 
guts, and are twisted with a great deal of art."


JL

W dniu 2010-12-29 17:14, Martin Shepherd pisze:

Dear All,

I don't know whether Downing was misquoted, but the ascription of the 
"Sheepes and Catts gutte" quote to Margaret Board is incorrect.  It is 
found in the Burwell lute tutor (c.1670), which was almost certainly 
copied by Mary Burwell from an anonymous source, probably her teacher.


Martin



To get on or off this list see list information at
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[LUTE] Re: catgut [somewhat peripheral to topic]

2010-12-27 Thread Eugene C. Braig IV
Very interesting.  Thanks for this, Alexander.

Peripheral, but the "Treatyse of Fysshynge With an Angle" was first
published (as you've referenced) as only one small part of an all purpose,
late-medieval outdoorsmen's compilation generally known as the Book of St.
Albans.  It also included treatises on hunting and falconry.  The fishing
treatise is in prose while the other two are in verse and are attributed to
the mysterious and now mythical Dame Juliana Berners (i.e., "Explicit Dam
Julyans Barnes in her boke of huntyng").  There is a partial manuscript
version of the fishing treatise dated to approx. 50 years earlier than this
publication.  The fishing treatise does indeed describe selecting, plaiting,
and coloring tail hairs from horses as the only reference to fabricating
fishing lines.  Likewise, The Compleat Angler, Isaak/Izaak Walton's
celebrated book, also only discusses braided horse hair as fishing line.  It
was first published in 1653, but expanded editions by the author himself
were published through 1676.


Eugene





> -Original Message-
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
> Behalf Of alexander
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 1:09 PM
> To: Ron Andrico
> Cc: howardpos...@ca.rr.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: catgut
> 
> Just for the amusement, and i hope John Downing would not mind:
> 
> 
> CATGUT:  COMM. 1567 REVISITED
> 
> 
> 
> A basic assumption today is that all lute strings of the 16th and 17th C
> were made from ‘gut’- invariably taken to mean the intestines of a lamb or
> sheep. Yet, historical references to lute string materials are rare and,
> when they do occur, include materials other than the intestinal fibre of
> sheep.
> 
> Robert Dowland (1610) and Mace – the two most often quoted historical
> sources concerning lute strings – make no mention at all about the
> materials used for fabricating strings. Margaret Board (1660 – 1672) does.
> She says that lute strings were made from “Sheepes and Catts gutte”. Board
> is clearly making a distinction between sheep’s gut and a material called
> catgut.(1)
> 
> 
> 
> So what was catgut?
> 
> 
> 
> Samuel Pepys was an angler of sorts. An entry in his diary for January
> 1659/1660 records that “This day Mr Caesar told me a pretty experiment of
> his, of angling with a minikin, a gut string varnished over which keeps it
> from swelling and is beyond any hair for strength and smallness. The
> secret I like mightily!” (Comm. 1567).
> 
> 
> 
> Pepys was using angling terminology.
> 
> Early records confirm that anglers made their fishing lines from horsehair
> (2). The final connection between line and hook had to be a fine, strong,
> transparent line, invisible to a fish. This short length of line, known as
> a ‘cast’ or ‘leader’ was usually made from white horsehair  - referred to
> by anglers, simply, as ‘hair.’
> 
> Horsehair used in commerce today – taken from the tail of the animal –
> measures from 0.003 to 0.011 inches in diameter. Its diameter and strength
> depend upon the breed of horse and its diet.
> 
> 
> 
> We know, from the writings of Thomas Mace (1676), that strings called
> ‘minikins’ were used for lute 1st, 2nd, and 3rd courses as well as for
> small octave strings (particularly the 6th octave).
> 
> Pepsy’s minikin string was “ beyond any hair for strength and smallness”,
> so either lute treble strings in the 17th C were a lot smaller in diameter
> than we imagine today or horsehair available to anglers of the period was
> quite a bit larger in diameter (and stronger) than is generally obtainable
> today. I believe the latter proposition to be the case.
> 
> 
> 
> During the first quarter of the 18th C, an innovative material for
> freshwater fishermen came on to the market.
> 
> The new material, that was to eventually replace horsehair for leaders -
> as best quality horsehair became increasingly difficult to obtain - was a
> transparent, monofilament line of silk known as ‘silkworm gut’- or just
> ‘gut’ to fishermen.
> 
> According to Herd (3), silkworm gut was first advertised for sale to
> anglers in 1722 and the first angling book to describe the manufacture and
> use of silkworm gut for leaders was “The Compleat Fisherman” by James
> Saunders published in 1724. In his book, Saunders makes direct comparison
> between silkworm gut (used for angling) and catgut (used for viols and
> violins). He also confirms that these strings ‘resembled a single hair’
> (4).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SILK FILAMENT AND SILKWORM GUT
> 
> 
> 
> Silk filament, used for making silk fabric, is produced by the caterpillar
> of the ‘Bombyx Mori’ moth domesticated for thi