Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
Following in the same vein, I would ask how many of those intentional homicides were done with a gun? I'm not challenging the subject matter, just the statistics. Dan On Apr 23, 2013, at 7:13 PM, G Mann wrote: Hopefully, without inflaming any ones passions, on either side of the very personal choice about owning or exercising an act of self defense, by any means. I submit the following. I believe the information shown in the two world wide charts to have been collected with reasonable care, by people who do such things. A picture, it is said, is worth a thousand words: I leave you to draw your own conclusions vis a vi your on conscience and choices. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 19:03:32 -0400 Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: Following in the same vein, I would ask how many of those intentional homicides were done with a gun? I'm not challenging the subject matter, just the statistics. From http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8 Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 Murder Victims by Weapon, 2007–2011 Weapons 20072008200920102011 Handguns 7,398 6,800 6,501 6,115 6,220 Rifles 453 380 351 367 323 Shotguns457 442 423 366 356 Other guns 116 81 96 93 97 Firearms, type not stated1,705 1,825 1,828 1,933 1,587 Total firearms:10,129 9,528 9,199 8,874 8,583 Knives or cutting instruments 1,817 1,888 1,836 1,732 1,694 Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.) 647 603 623 549 496 Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.)[1] 869 875 817 769 728 Poison 10 9 7 11 5 Explosives1 11 2 4 12 Fire131 85 98 78 75 Narcotics52 34 52 45 29 Drowning 12 16 8 10 15 Strangulation 134 89 122 122 85 Asphyxiation109 87 84 98 89 Other weapons or weapons not stated1,005 999 904 872 853 Total non-firearms 4,787 4,696 4,553 4,2904,081 Total14,916 14,224 13,752 13,164 12,664 [1] Pushed is included in personal weapons. --- Now compare that with automobiles: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/transportation/motor_vehicle_accidents_and_fatalities.html 200720082009 Motor vehicle accidents (millions) 10.610.210.8 Motor vehicle deaths within 1 year (thousands) 43.939.735.9 withing 30 days(thousands) 41.337.433.8 Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
I think two points are worth making: One: A firearm may be an important element in home protection but it's seldom the most important part. Planning is the most important part. But firearms become more important in rural areas, areas without nearby neighbors, and in cases where physical limitations limit fleeing. Even so, planning is most critical: safe room location and configuration (doors, windows, cover, concealment, and clear lines of fire), drills/rehearsal, training family members, etc. Two: The political issue is usually stated as left-right, liberal-conservative, etc. This is misleading. The real issue is individualism vs. collectivism. Individualism is based on rights and responsibilities; there are lots of objective criteria here. Collectivism, unfortunately, can justify anything if it's for the common good. Scott - G Mann wrote: Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family... WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
Dieselhead wrote: One of my favorite signs: that door you just kicked in was there to protect you, not me! and has a picture of a 45 (1 9 1 1) Watertown MA could use some of that. http://youtu.be/2LrbsUVSVl8 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
I don't read Wilton's post that way. I expect he was simply saying that the number of guns divided by the number of people doesn't give an accurate metric of the percentage of people with guns, since some (okay, probably many) gun owners own more than one. Also, I and many other gun owners would likely try to come to the defense of an unarmed fellow citizen in time of need if circumstances allowed. Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G Mann Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:19 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family. You and those like you who are unable to protect yourself die first.. that is how nature works. You have a front door on your house which has the duty to protect you and your family. You have the option to leave that door open and unlocked, or closed and locked.. you are free to choose. As soon as that door no longer protects you, you have other options to choose from, presuming you have not given up those options by pre-choice. On the other hand, the door on my house serves yet a different purpose. It is there to protect the individuals who would make the unwise choice to breach that barrier without permission. At that moment, they have options which they may choose from, presuming they have not given up those options by pre-choice. This is not a zero sum game. If I have two guns, one is not to make up for you not having made the choice to exercise the Right to Self Defense. In the emotion ridden present day climate, there are many who want to make this a fight about guns. It is not. The real core issue is who takes responsibility for your personal self defense. The founding fathers of the country understood this and made that responsibility reside with the citizen by ensuring the Right to keep and bare arms Shall not be infringed[in pertinent part here]. They did not say call 911 and wait or vomit on your attacker or try peeing on them to scare them away, the language chosen was very specific and legally powerful language [look up shall in Blacks law dictionary, Not,and Infringe also]. Your expectation is that I will fully support your choice to not defend yourself by being armed, which I do. My expectation is that you will fully support my choice to defend myself and provide my own means to do so, which I am not getting the feeling of full support. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away has a lot more meaning to me since the courts have repeatedly ruled that the police have NO duty to protect citizens. Just a few thoughts to stimulate your thinking process perhaps. Respectfully, Grant... On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? If I'd have to think about it for a couple of minutes to tell you the exact number of firearms, and would need to do a physical inventory if you wanted to know how many airguns and bows I have, am I one of those people? Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comht tp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
Sorry. I don't know how this double post occurred as my PC was completely off at the sent time. It must have been some kind of AOL glitch. Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Scott Ritchey Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 6:46 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership I think two points are worth making: One: A firearm may be an important element in home protection but it's seldom the most important part. Planning is the most important part. But firearms become more important in rural areas, areas without nearby neighbors, and in cases where physical limitations limit fleeing. Even so, planning is most critical: safe room location and configuration (doors, windows, cover, concealment, and clear lines of fire), drills/rehearsal, training family members, etc. Two: The political issue is usually stated as left-right, liberal-conservative, etc. This is misleading. The real issue is individualism vs. collectivism. Individualism is based on rights and responsibilities; there are lots of objective criteria here. Collectivism, unfortunately, can justify anything if it's for the common good. Scott - G Mann wrote: Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family... WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
What Greg said. Grant, I was merely talkin' 'bout statistics - nothing else. BTW, I'm not depending on my neighbors to protect me, though maybe I should, if I could - after all, turnabout is fair play, isn't it? ;) Wilton - Original Message - From: Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership I don't read Wilton's post that way. I expect he was simply saying that the number of guns divided by the number of people doesn't give an accurate metric of the percentage of people with guns, since some (okay, probably many) gun owners own more than one. Also, I and many other gun owners would likely try to come to the defense of an unarmed fellow citizen in time of need if circumstances allowed. Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G Mann Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:19 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family. You and those like you who are unable to protect yourself die first.. that is how nature works. You have a front door on your house which has the duty to protect you and your family. You have the option to leave that door open and unlocked, or closed and locked.. you are free to choose. As soon as that door no longer protects you, you have other options to choose from, presuming you have not given up those options by pre-choice. On the other hand, the door on my house serves yet a different purpose. It is there to protect the individuals who would make the unwise choice to breach that barrier without permission. At that moment, they have options which they may choose from, presuming they have not given up those options by pre-choice. This is not a zero sum game. If I have two guns, one is not to make up for you not having made the choice to exercise the Right to Self Defense. In the emotion ridden present day climate, there are many who want to make this a fight about guns. It is not. The real core issue is who takes responsibility for your personal self defense. The founding fathers of the country understood this and made that responsibility reside with the citizen by ensuring the Right to keep and bare arms Shall not be infringed[in pertinent part here]. They did not say call 911 and wait or vomit on your attacker or try peeing on them to scare them away, the language chosen was very specific and legally powerful language [look up shall in Blacks law dictionary, Not,and Infringe also]. Your expectation is that I will fully support your choice to not defend yourself by being armed, which I do. My expectation is that you will fully support my choice to defend myself and provide my own means to do so, which I am not getting the feeling of full support. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away has a lot more meaning to me since the courts have repeatedly ruled that the police have NO duty to protect citizens. Just a few thoughts to stimulate your thinking process perhaps. Respectfully, Grant... On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? If I'd have to think about it for a couple of minutes to tell you the exact number of firearms, and would need to do a physical inventory if you wanted to know how many airguns and bows I have, am I one of those people? Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comht tp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
turnabout is fair play, isn't it? Heck yes! That was one of my thoughts too! I have a close buddy who is an anti-gun liberal (also a former Marine). I would certainly put myself at risk to defend him if necessary. Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 10:23 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership What Greg said. Grant, I was merely talkin' 'bout statistics - nothing else. BTW, I'm not depending on my neighbors to protect me, though maybe I should, if I could - after all, turnabout is fair play, isn't it? ;) Wilton - Original Message - From: Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership I don't read Wilton's post that way. I expect he was simply saying that the number of guns divided by the number of people doesn't give an accurate metric of the percentage of people with guns, since some (okay, probably many) gun owners own more than one. Also, I and many other gun owners would likely try to come to the defense of an unarmed fellow citizen in time of need if circumstances allowed. Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G Mann Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:19 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family. You and those like you who are unable to protect yourself die first.. that is how nature works. You have a front door on your house which has the duty to protect you and your family. You have the option to leave that door open and unlocked, or closed and locked.. you are free to choose. As soon as that door no longer protects you, you have other options to choose from, presuming you have not given up those options by pre-choice. On the other hand, the door on my house serves yet a different purpose. It is there to protect the individuals who would make the unwise choice to breach that barrier without permission. At that moment, they have options which they may choose from, presuming they have not given up those options by pre-choice. This is not a zero sum game. If I have two guns, one is not to make up for you not having made the choice to exercise the Right to Self Defense. In the emotion ridden present day climate, there are many who want to make this a fight about guns. It is not. The real core issue is who takes responsibility for your personal self defense. The founding fathers of the country understood this and made that responsibility reside with the citizen by ensuring the Right to keep and bare arms Shall not be infringed[in pertinent part here]. They did not say call 911 and wait or vomit on your attacker or try peeing on them to scare them away, the language chosen was very specific and legally powerful language [look up shall in Blacks law dictionary, Not,and Infringe also]. Your expectation is that I will fully support your choice to not defend yourself by being armed, which I do. My expectation is that you will fully support my choice to defend myself and provide my own means to do so, which I am not getting the feeling of full support. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away has a lot more meaning to me since the courts have repeatedly ruled that the police have NO duty to protect citizens. Just a few thoughts to stimulate your thinking process perhaps. Respectfully, Grant... On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? If I'd have to think about it for a couple of minutes to tell you the exact number of firearms, and would need to do a physical inventory if you wanted to know how many airguns and bows I have, am I one of those people? Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comht tp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
I generally try to stay out of the gun nonsense on here, but let me suggest that if you truly feel you need a gun to protect you in your own home, you should think seriously about moving, maybe out of the USA, to some place where there are not so many guns and whack jobs carting them around. I live in a city of reasonable size and I really don't worry about being attacked in my own home. If I were to wander into some of the dark alleys down in the core area at night, carrying a box of beer, that might be a different story, but out here in the suburbs, I don't worry at all. Randy On 23/04/2013 12:20 AM, Scott Ritchey wrote: I think two points are worth making: One: A firearm may be an important element in home protection but it's seldom the most important part. Planning is the most important part. But firearms become more important in rural areas, areas without nearby neighbors, and in cases where physical limitations limit fleeing. Even so, planning is most critical: safe room location and configuration (doors, windows, cover, concealment, and clear lines of fire), drills/rehearsal, training family members, etc. Two: The political issue is usually stated as left-right, liberal-conservative, etc. This is misleading. The real issue is individualism vs. collectivism. Individualism is based on rights and responsibilities; there are lots of objective criteria here. Collectivism, unfortunately, can justify anything if it's for the common good. Scott - G Mann wrote: Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family... WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
If I were worried about such, I'd be trying to move, too. Wilton - Original Message - From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership I generally try to stay out of the gun nonsense on here, but let me suggest that if you truly feel you need a gun to protect you in your own home, you should think seriously about moving, maybe out of the USA, to some place where there are not so many guns and whack jobs carting them around. I live in a city of reasonable size and I really don't worry about being attacked in my own home. If I were to wander into some of the dark alleys down in the core area at night, carrying a box of beer, that might be a different story, but out here in the suburbs, I don't worry at all. Randy On 23/04/2013 12:20 AM, Scott Ritchey wrote: I think two points are worth making: One: A firearm may be an important element in home protection but it's seldom the most important part. Planning is the most important part. But firearms become more important in rural areas, areas without nearby neighbors, and in cases where physical limitations limit fleeing. Even so, planning is most critical: safe room location and configuration (doors, windows, cover, concealment, and clear lines of fire), drills/rehearsal, training family members, etc. Two: The political issue is usually stated as left-right, liberal-conservative, etc. This is misleading. The real issue is individualism vs. collectivism. Individualism is based on rights and responsibilities; there are lots of objective criteria here. Collectivism, unfortunately, can justify anything if it's for the common good. Scott - G Mann wrote: Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family... WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
I have two 18 pound black attack cats who look like mini panthers and would discourage any would be intruders. One of them purrs so loudly the walls shake; the other will eat any human food whether or not you offer it to him. His lack of table manners is truly scary. On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:40 PM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: If I were worried about such, I'd be trying to move, too. Wilton - Original Message - From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership I generally try to stay out of the gun nonsense on here, but let me suggest that if you truly feel you need a gun to protect you in your own home, you should think seriously about moving, maybe out of the USA, to some place where there are not so many guns and whack jobs carting them around. I live in a city of reasonable size and I really don't worry about being attacked in my own home. If I were to wander into some of the dark alleys down in the core area at night, carrying a box of beer, that might be a different story, but out here in the suburbs, I don't worry at all. Randy On 23/04/2013 12:20 AM, Scott Ritchey wrote: I think two points are worth making: One: A firearm may be an important element in home protection but it's seldom the most important part. Planning is the most important part. But firearms become more important in rural areas, areas without nearby neighbors, and in cases where physical limitations limit fleeing. Even so, planning is most critical: safe room location and configuration (doors, windows, cover, concealment, and clear lines of fire), drills/rehearsal, training family members, etc. Two: The political issue is usually stated as left-right, liberal-conservative, etc. This is misleading. The real issue is individualism vs. collectivism. Individualism is based on rights and responsibilities; there are lots of objective criteria here. Collectivism, unfortunately, can justify anything if it's for the common good. Scott - G Mann wrote: Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family... WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
I don't worry about my house burning down but I still have circuit breakers on all circuits (spark-fault interrupters on some), smoke alarms. fire extinguishers, and a plan (plans actually) in case I smell smoke or hear an alarm. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Randy Bennell Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 4:36 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership I generally try to stay out of the gun nonsense on here, but let me suggest that if you truly feel you need a gun to protect you in your own home, you should think seriously about moving, maybe out of the USA, to some place where there are not so many guns and whack jobs carting them around. I live in a city of reasonable size and I really don't worry about being attacked in my own home. If I were to wander into some of the dark alleys down in the core area at night, carrying a box of beer, that might be a different story, but out here in the suburbs, I don't worry at all. Randy On 23/04/2013 12:20 AM, Scott Ritchey wrote: I think two points are worth making: One: A firearm may be an important element in home protection but it's seldom the most important part. Planning is the most important part. But firearms become more important in rural areas, areas without nearby neighbors, and in cases where physical limitations limit fleeing. Even so, planning is most critical: safe room location and configuration (doors, windows, cover, concealment, and clear lines of fire), drills/rehearsal, training family members, etc. Two: The political issue is usually stated as left-right, liberal-conservative, etc. This is misleading. The real issue is individualism vs. collectivism. Individualism is based on rights and responsibilities; there are lots of objective criteria here. Collectivism, unfortunately, can justify anything if it's for the common good. Scott - G Mann wrote: Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family... WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
Randy Bennell wrote: I generally try to stay out of the gun nonsense on here, but let me suggest that if you truly feel you need a gun to protect you in your own home, you should think seriously about moving, maybe out of the USA, to some place where there are not so many guns and whack jobs carting them around. Just think of it like fire insurance. Nobody says 'if you need $500 a year worth of insurance because you're afraid your house will catch fire, you should seriously think about moving'. That $500 gun is a one-time, not annual, purchase. Needing to defend yourself from home invaders or from a fire are similar in probability. The good news is that 'hot' (occupied) home invasions are less common where armed homeowners are more common. In the UK, for example, it seems like the burglars prefer to hit the home while there are people in it. In most parts of the USA, they'd much rather do it in broad daylight so they can come and go while you're away at work. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
I like to compare owning a gun for self-defense to fire insurance. Most people will never use it, but you're quite up the proverbial creek if you need it but don't have it. All the countries in the world that I am aware of are populated by Homo Sapiens, some of whom are whack jobs and some of whom are 99 and 44/100 pure evil. The nicest and safest neighborhoods have a few of those here as well. Read the local news. Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Scott Ritchey Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 5:31 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership I don't worry about my house burning down but I still have circuit breakers on all circuits (spark-fault interrupters on some), smoke alarms. fire extinguishers, and a plan (plans actually) in case I smell smoke or hear an alarm. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Randy Bennell Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 4:36 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership I generally try to stay out of the gun nonsense on here, but let me suggest that if you truly feel you need a gun to protect you in your own home, you should think seriously about moving, maybe out of the USA, to some place where there are not so many guns and whack jobs carting them around. I live in a city of reasonable size and I really don't worry about being attacked in my own home. If I were to wander into some of the dark alleys down in the core area at night, carrying a box of beer, that might be a different story, but out here in the suburbs, I don't worry at all. Randy On 23/04/2013 12:20 AM, Scott Ritchey wrote: I think two points are worth making: One: A firearm may be an important element in home protection but it's seldom the most important part. Planning is the most important part. But firearms become more important in rural areas, areas without nearby neighbors, and in cases where physical limitations limit fleeing. Even so, planning is most critical: safe room location and configuration (doors, windows, cover, concealment, and clear lines of fire), drills/rehearsal, training family members, etc. Two: The political issue is usually stated as left-right, liberal-conservative, etc. This is misleading. The real issue is individualism vs. collectivism. Individualism is based on rights and responsibilities; there are lots of objective criteria here. Collectivism, unfortunately, can justify anything if it's for the common good. Scott - G Mann wrote: Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family... WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
Also, I and many other gun owners would likely try to come to the defense of an unarmed fellow citizen in time of need if circumstances allowed. I'd like to think I wouldn't require such a fellow citizen to be unarmed in order to help! I breathe easier knowing that I have all necessary insurance policies, for every reasonable danger to our health and welfare. I think we're protected against just about everything... except Congress! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
I think two points are worth making: One: A firearm may be an important element in home protection but it's seldom the most important part. Planning is the most important part. But firearms become more important in rural areas, areas without nearby neighbors, and in cases where physical limitations limit fleeing. Even so, planning is most critical: safe room location and configuration (doors, windows, cover, concealment, and clear lines of fire), drills/rehearsal, training family members, etc. Two: The political issue is usually stated as left-right, liberal-conservative, etc. This is misleading. The real issue is individualism vs. collectivism. Individualism is based on rights and responsibilities; there are lots of objective criteria here. Collectivism, unfortunately, can justify anything if it's for the common good. Scott - G Mann wrote: Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family... WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
If someone steals my insurance policy they can't turn around and kill me with it. On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: I think two points are worth making: One: A firearm may be an important element in home protection but it's seldom the most important part. Planning is the most important part. But firearms become more important in rural areas, areas without nearby neighbors, and in cases where physical limitations limit fleeing. Even so, planning is most critical: safe room location and configuration (doors, windows, cover, concealment, and clear lines of fire), drills/rehearsal, training family members, etc. Two: The political issue is usually stated as left-right, liberal-conservative, etc. This is misleading. The real issue is individualism vs. collectivism. Individualism is based on rights and responsibilities; there are lots of objective criteria here. Collectivism, unfortunately, can justify anything if it's for the common good. Scott - G Mann wrote: Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family... WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
Collectivism, unfortunately, can justify anything if it's for the common good. Scott Iz fer da chilluns ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
If someone steals my insurance policy they can't turn around and kill me with it. You might be surprised what fambly members will do fer a dollah ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? Wilton - Original Message - From: Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 4:36 PM Subject: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? If I'd have to think about it for a couple of minutes to tell you the exact number of firearms, and would need to do a physical inventory if you wanted to know how many airguns and bows I have, am I one of those people? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
'Didn't know we were talking 'bout airguns - BB guns, one of which I have - and bows. 'Thought we were talking 'bout FIRE arms. Wilton - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? If I'd have to think about it for a couple of minutes to tell you the exact number of firearms, and would need to do a physical inventory if you wanted to know how many airguns and bows I have, am I one of those people? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
WILTON wrote: 'Didn't know we were talking 'bout airguns - BB guns, one of which I have - and bows. 'Thought we were talking 'bout FIRE arms. Those I know how many I have. Thought about it when I was typing the last message, and it is a single digit number. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family. You and those like you who are unable to protect yourself die first.. that is how nature works. You have a front door on your house which has the duty to protect you and your family. You have the option to leave that door open and unlocked, or closed and locked.. you are free to choose. As soon as that door no longer protects you, you have other options to choose from, presuming you have not given up those options by pre-choice. On the other hand, the door on my house serves yet a different purpose. It is there to protect the individuals who would make the unwise choice to breach that barrier without permission. At that moment, they have options which they may choose from, presuming they have not given up those options by pre-choice. This is not a zero sum game. If I have two guns, one is not to make up for you not having made the choice to exercise the Right to Self Defense. In the emotion ridden present day climate, there are many who want to make this a fight about guns. It is not. The real core issue is who takes responsibility for your personal self defense. The founding fathers of the country understood this and made that responsibility reside with the citizen by ensuring the Right to keep and bare arms Shall not be infringed[in pertinent part here]. They did not say call 911 and wait or vomit on your attacker or try peeing on them to scare them away, the language chosen was very specific and legally powerful language [look up shall in Blacks law dictionary, Not,and Infringe also]. Your expectation is that I will fully support your choice to not defend yourself by being armed, which I do. My expectation is that you will fully support my choice to defend myself and provide my own means to do so, which I am not getting the feeling of full support. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away has a lot more meaning to me since the courts have repeatedly ruled that the police have NO duty to protect citizens. Just a few thoughts to stimulate your thinking process perhaps. Respectfully, Grant... On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? If I'd have to think about it for a couple of minutes to tell you the exact number of firearms, and would need to do a physical inventory if you wanted to know how many airguns and bows I have, am I one of those people? Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
Mr. Mann Sez: Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family. You and those like you who are unable to protect yourself die first.. that is how nature works. You have a front door on your house which has the duty to protect you and your family. You have the option to leave that door open and unlocked, or closed and locked.. you are free to choose. As soon as that door no longer protects you, you have other options to choose from, presuming you have not given up those options by pre-choice. On the other hand, the door on my house serves yet a different purpose. It is there to protect the individuals who would make the unwise choice to breach that barrier without permission. At that moment, they have options which they may choose from, presuming they have not given up those options by pre-choice. One of my favorite signs: that door you just kicked in was there to protect you, not me! and has a picture of a 45 (1 9 1 1) My daughter lives in a neighborhood that used to have a sign that said This neighborhood is protected by Colt with a similar picture to the sigh above.There are quite a few retired military officers that live there., including one WWII Bomber pilot who married an Army nurse, and they were career Air Corps/Air Force officers. Very neat people. Another is a retired Air Force pilot. One former resident was reportedly the military governor of the Philippines after WWII, and built a sailboat in the neighborhood after retirement. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fw: Gun Ownership
I think two points are worth making: One: A firearm may be an important element in home protection but it's seldom the most important part. Planning is the most important part. But firearms become more important in rural areas, areas without nearby neighbors, and in cases where physical limitations limit fleeing. Even so, planning is most critical: safe room location and configuration (doors, windows, cover, concealment, and clear lines of fire), drills/rehearsal, training family members, etc. Two: The political issue is usually stated as left-right, liberal-conservative, etc. This is misleading. The real issue is individualism vs. collectivism. Individualism is based on rights and responsibilities; there are lots of objective criteria here. Collectivism, unfortunately, can justify anything if it's for the common good. Scott - G Mann wrote: Emmm.. faulty thinking... sorry to break the news to you.. but I don't own a gun to protect you.. I own a gun, if I own one, to Protect Me and those of my Family... WILTON wrote: How many people in those purple areas have humpteen guns each to make up for those of us who have none? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
