RE: RE: RE:

[Kevin Kostyszyn]

Reminds me of a bad joke...

What did the farmer say when his tractor broke?

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 12:03 PM
To: Kevin Kostyszyn; [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Just because!

Reply Separator
Author: "Kevin Kostyszyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/30/2001 11:42 AM

Oh my, but why?

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 11:48 AM
To: Kevin Kostyszyn; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ours is not to wonder why, ours is just to do or die!!

Reply Separator
Author: "Kevin Kostyszyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/30/2001 7:02 AM

This person was actually allowed to teach.  Never ask why, yes that's a
super philosophy on life.

-Original Message-
Patrice J
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 8:31 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


That's a laugh, I went to a continuing education seminar once at Carleton
University, in Ottawa.

The seminar was called Effective Living.

The teacher was a social worker, and he emphatically told everyone NEVER to
ask why, just adapt to life and keep moving...

I had unreconcilable disagreements with him, I guess I don't know how to
live.

: )

Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)


-Original Message-
From:   Don Granaman [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Tuesday, May 29, 2001 4:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Re:

when?
But, more important, WHY???

-Don Granaman
[certifiable OraSaurus]

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:28 PM


> And Where.
>
> Terry
>
> "Boivin, Patrice J" wrote:
>
> > When and how
> >
> > Patrice Boivin
> > Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From:   Kevin Kostyszyn [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent:   Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:41 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject:RE:
> >
> > what
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Andrea
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 11:47 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> > who
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Quaglio Andrea
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
(858)
538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access /
Mailing
> > Lists
>


> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
E-Mail
message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
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> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
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> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
from).  You
may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like
subscribing).
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Kevin Kostyszyn
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
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> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
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> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> 

RE: RE: RE:

[Christopher Spence]

Actually I say:

"You know what the farmer said when the cow died?"

"Geesh, it never did that before."

"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot 



-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 1:07 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Reminds me of a bad joke...

What did the farmer say when his tractor broke?

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 12:03 PM
To: Kevin Kostyszyn; [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Just because!

Reply Separator
Author: "Kevin Kostyszyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/30/2001 11:42 AM

Oh my, but why?

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 11:48 AM
To: Kevin Kostyszyn; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ours is not to wonder why, ours is just to do or die!!

Reply Separator
Author: "Kevin Kostyszyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/30/2001 7:02 AM

This person was actually allowed to teach.  Never ask why, yes that's a
super philosophy on life.

-Original Message-
Patrice J
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 8:31 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


That's a laugh, I went to a continuing education seminar once at Carleton
University, in Ottawa.

The seminar was called Effective Living.

The teacher was a social worker, and he emphatically told everyone NEVER to
ask why, just adapt to life and keep moving...

I had unreconcilable disagreements with him, I guess I don't know how to
live.

: )

Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)


-Original Message-
From:   Don Granaman [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Tuesday, May 29, 2001 4:11 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Re:

when?
But, more important, WHY???

-Don Granaman
[certifiable OraSaurus]

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:28 PM


> And Where.
>
> Terry
>
> "Boivin, Patrice J" wrote:
>
> > When and how
> >
> > Patrice Boivin
> > Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From:   Kevin Kostyszyn [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent:   Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:41 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject:RE:
> >
> > what
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Andrea
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 11:47 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> > who
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Quaglio Andrea
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
(858)
538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access /
Mailing
> > Lists
>


> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
E-Mail
message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
'ListGuru') and
in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
from).  You
may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like
subscribing).
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Kevin Kostyszyn
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
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538-5051
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> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
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message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
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in
> >   

RE: RE: RE:

[Kevin Kostyszyn]

Dam_...my tractor broke.

-Original Message-
Spence
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 1:50 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Actually I say:

"You know what the farmer said when the cow died?"

"Geesh, it never did that before."

"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot



-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 1:07 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Reminds me of a bad joke...

What did the farmer say when his tractor broke?

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 12:03 PM
To: Kevin Kostyszyn; [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Just because!

Reply Separator
Author: "Kevin Kostyszyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/30/2001 11:42 AM

Oh my, but why?

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 11:48 AM
To: Kevin Kostyszyn; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ours is not to wonder why, ours is just to do or die!!

Reply Separator
Author: "Kevin Kostyszyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/30/2001 7:02 AM

This person was actually allowed to teach.  Never ask why, yes that's a
super philosophy on life.

-Original Message-
Patrice J
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 8:31 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


That's a laugh, I went to a continuing education seminar once at Carleton
University, in Ottawa.

The seminar was called Effective Living.

The teacher was a social worker, and he emphatically told everyone NEVER to
ask why, just adapt to life and keep moving...

I had unreconcilable disagreements with him, I guess I don't know how to
live.

: )

Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)


-Original Message-
From:   Don Granaman [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Tuesday, May 29, 2001 4:11 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Re:

when?
But, more important, WHY???

-Don Granaman
[certifiable OraSaurus]

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:28 PM


> And Where.
>
> Terry
>
> "Boivin, Patrice J" wrote:
>
> > When and how
> >
> > Patrice Boivin
> > Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From:   Kevin Kostyszyn [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent:   Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:41 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject:RE:
> >
> > what
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Andrea
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 11:47 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> > who
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Quaglio Andrea
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
(858)
538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access /
Mailing
> > Lists
>


> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
E-Mail
message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
'ListGuru') and
in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
from).  You
may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like
subscribing).
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Kevin Kostyszyn
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
(858)
538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access /
Mailing
> > Lists
>


> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list,

Re: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)

[bhabani s pradhan]

yes that problem is resolved
actually there are two problems:
1] Solaris Error: 12: Not enough space
sys admin killed some processes and now other client machines can 
connect and work on the db

2]tnsping and sqlplus on one particular client machine give
Bus Error (core dumped)

seems its a disk corruption error (can that be?)

 from oracle's side where else can i see for this "Bus Error (core 
dumped)" error.

Regards
---

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
>Then, you have a problem with the number of processes on the OS 
>level. The
>investigation should continue on the server.
>
>--
>Mladen Gogala
>Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: bhabani s pradhan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:46 PM
> > To: Mladen Gogala
> > Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> >
> >
> > its a 2gig memory
> >
> > shmsys:shminfo_shmmax=4294967295
> > shmsys:shminfo_shmmin=1
> >
> > parameter processes = 150
> >
> > and v$process returns 25
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
> > >You don't have enough oracle processes on the server. 
>Increase
> > >"PROCESSES"
> > >parameter.
> > >You might need to adjust SHMMAX and SEMMNS in /etc/system
> > >
> > >--
> > >Mladen Gogala
> > >Oracle DBA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: bhabani s pradhan 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:34 PM
> > > > To: Mladen Gogala
> > > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > donot know much about unix
> > > > shell variables are exported
> > > >
> > > >  from the client machine it soes not return anything:
> > WW_WS> truss
> > > > -o /tmp/truss.out -af tnsping tradedb1 WW_WS>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > i got this from the listener.log
> > > >
> > > > 12-SEP-2003 11:24:45 *
> > > >
> > 
> >(CONNECT_DATA=(SERVICE_NAME=TRADEDB1)(CID=(PROGRAM=)(HOST=trad
> > > > e-host2)(USER=rubix)))
> > > > * (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=10.10.8.27)(PORT=40838)) 
>*
> > establish
> > > > * TRADEDB1 * 12500
> > > > TNS-12500: TNS:listener failed to start a dedicated server 
>process
> > > >   TNS-12540: TNS:internal limit restriction exceeded
> > > >TNS-12560: TNS:protocol adapter error
> > > > TNS-00510: Internal limit restriction exceeded
> > > >  Solaris Error: 12: Not enough space
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > ===
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
> > > > >OK, this seems to have been created with netca. Are 
>your
> > >shell
> > > > >variables
> > > > >exported? You should do "truss -o /tmp/truss.out -af
> > >tnsping
> > > > >tradedb1".
> > > > >That should tell you where does the error occur. Bus 
>error
> > >means
> > > > >that the
> > > > >process cannot connect to the server. It's very similar 
>in
> > >nature
> > > > >to
> > > > >ORA-3113.
> > > > >If it was oracle process you were trying to connect, 
>you'd
> > >get an
> > > > >oracle
> > > > >error,
> > > > >but your're getting bus error, which means that the 
>problem
> > >is on
> > > > >the OS
> > > > >level.
> > > > >Turn on tracing (TRACE_LEVEL=ADMIN in sqlnet.ora on 
>both
> > >server
> > > > >and client)
> > > > >and
> > > > >see what that gives you. What else can you tell me? Is
> > >there
> > > > >anything
> > > > >unusual
> > > > >in that combination? Did it work before? What has 
>changed?
> > >How
> > > > >much
> > > > >experience
> > > > >do you have with Unix and oracle?
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >Mladen Gogala
> > > > >

Re: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)

[Mladen Gogala]

As I've said earlier, take a look at the server. Look in the alert.log.
On 2003.09.12 19:09, bhabani s pradhan wrote:
yes that problem is resolved
actually there are two problems:
1] Solaris Error: 12: Not enough space
sys admin killed some processes and now other client machines can
connect and work on the db
2]tnsping and sqlplus on one particular client machine give
Bus Error (core dumped)
seems its a disk corruption error (can that be?)

 from oracle's side where else can i see for this "Bus Error (core
dumped)" error.
Regards
---
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
>Then, you have a problem with the number of processes on the OS
>level. The
>investigation should continue on the server.
>
>--
>Mladen Gogala
>Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: bhabani s pradhan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:46 PM
> > To: Mladen Gogala
> > Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> >
> >
> > its a 2gig memory
> >
> > shmsys:shminfo_shmmax=4294967295
> > shmsys:shminfo_shmmin=1
> >
> > parameter processes = 150
> >
> > and v$process returns 25
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
> > >You don't have enough oracle processes on the server.
>Increase
> > >"PROCESSES"
> > >parameter.
> > >You might need to adjust SHMMAX and SEMMNS in /etc/system
> > >
> > >--
> > >Mladen Gogala
> > >Oracle DBA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: bhabani s pradhan
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:34 PM
> > > > To: Mladen Gogala
> > > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > donot know much about unix
> > > > shell variables are exported
> > > >
> > > >  from the client machine it soes not return anything:
> > WW_WS> truss
> > > > -o /tmp/truss.out -af tnsping tradedb1 WW_WS>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > i got this from the listener.log
> > > >
> > > > 12-SEP-2003 11:24:45 *
> > > >
> >
> >(CONNECT_DATA=(SERVICE_NAME=TRADEDB1)(CID=(PROGRAM=)(HOST=trad
> > > > e-host2)(USER=rubix)))
> > > > * (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=10.10.8.27)(PORT=40838))
>*
> > establish
> > > > * TRADEDB1 * 12500
> > > > TNS-12500: TNS:listener failed to start a dedicated server
>process
> > > >   TNS-12540: TNS:internal limit restriction exceeded
> > > >TNS-12560: TNS:protocol adapter error
> > > > TNS-00510: Internal limit restriction exceeded
> > > >  Solaris Error: 12: Not enough space
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > ===
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
> > > > >OK, this seems to have been created with netca. Are
>your
> > >shell
> > > > >variables
> > > > >exported? You should do "truss -o /tmp/truss.out -af
> > >tnsping
> > > > >tradedb1".
> > > > >That should tell you where does the error occur. Bus
>error
> > >means
> > > > >that the
> > > > >process cannot connect to the server. It's very similar
>in
> > >nature
> > > > >to
> > > > >ORA-3113.
> > > > >If it was oracle process you were trying to connect,
>you'd
> > >get an
> > > > >oracle
> > > > >error,
> > > > >but your're getting bus error, which means that the
>problem
> > >is on
> > > > >the OS
> > > > >level.
> > > > >Turn on tracing (TRACE_LEVEL=ADMIN in sqlnet.ora on
>both
> > >server
> > > > >and client)
> > > > >and
> > > > >see what that gives you. What else can you tell me? Is
> > >there
> > > > >anything
> > > > >unusual
> > > > >in that combination? Did it work before? What has
>changed?
> > >How
> > > > >much
> > > > >experience
> > > > >do you have with Unix and oracle?
> &g

RE: Re: Re: Migration

[Stephane Faroult]

Tanel,

  Any idea about speed and temporary storage requirements? Especially for 32G+ 
datafiles ;-) ?
  Wondering if it will really be useful in practice, compared to what is available 
today. Well, it may do for simpler operations, but not necessarily faster.

SF

>- --- Original Message --- -
>From: "Tanel Poder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:49:26
>
>You can't just copy over the files with os commands
>and hope that Oracle
>will somehow recognize them.
>You have to use RMANs new convert tablespace
>command to do the byte order
>conversion.
>
>Tanel.
>
>- Original Message - 
>To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 4:54 PM
>
>
>> It raises an interesting question. As of today,
>we have datafiles which
>are OS dependent and _not_ binary compatible from
>one system to another. We
>upgrade to 10g and it will become magically binary
>compatible. Which means
>that the upgrade process will do more intimate
>things than updating some
>file header block, creating a couple of new tables
>in the data dictionary
>and recreating view.
>>
>> Has anybody tried to upgrade from 9.x to 10g yet,
>on some database of
>decent size ?
>>
>> SF
>>
>> >- --- Original Message --- -
>> >From: "Yechiel Adar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 05:54:25
>> >
>> >Wait for 10g. They say that you could just copy
>the
>> >datafiles and them plug
>> >them in to he new database, even across
>platforms.
>> >
>> >Yechiel Adar
>> >Mehish
>> >- Original Message -
>> >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:24 AM
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi List,
>> >>
>> >> Could someone please help me?
>> >>
>> >> Assumption situation - Platform migration of
>> >Oracle DW on Oracle DB (data
>> >> volume 3.5 TB) from HP-UX to IBM-AIX
>> >>
>> >>   1.. DB migration; it is correct to use
>> >Export/Import technique/method in
>> >> the above assumption?
>> >>   2..  Witch is the time frame in a worst case
>
>> >for this (how many hours,
>> >> days or weeks!!)?
>> >>   3.. It is possible to apply the mentioned
>> >technique or some other (witch
>> >> one?) in uptime, totally or partially?
>> >>   4.. Witches are the main tasks to consider
>in a
>> >planning schedule?
>> >>   5.. Witches are the time frames associated
>to
>> >these tasks?
>> >> Thanks
>> >> Arm>o Teles
>> >>
>> >>
>> -- 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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Re: Re: Re: Migration

[Tanel Poder]

Well, I don't know about it's performance, but I think this conversion
doesn't require any temporary space, because the byte values of some
structures in blocks have to be swapped, and this a trivial operation.

I think it may still be faster, especially if we are dealing with huge
amounts of data, swapping bytes in blocks is faster than reading and parsing
data through buffer cache, transferring it over sqlnet and formatting +
writing it back to datablocks...

Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 6:14 PM


> Tanel,
>
>   Any idea about speed and temporary storage requirements? Especially for
32G+ datafiles ;-) ?
>   Wondering if it will really be useful in practice, compared to what is
available today. Well, it may do for simpler operations, but not necessarily
faster.
>
> SF
>
> >- --- Original Message --- -
> >From: "Tanel Poder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:49:26
> >
> >You can't just copy over the files with os commands
> >and hope that Oracle
> >will somehow recognize them.
> >You have to use RMANs new convert tablespace
> >command to do the byte order
> >conversion.
> >
> >Tanel.
> >
> >- Original Message - 
> >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 4:54 PM
> >
> >
> >> It raises an interesting question. As of today,
> >we have datafiles which
> >are OS dependent and _not_ binary compatible from
> >one system to another. We
> >upgrade to 10g and it will become magically binary
> >compatible. Which means
> >that the upgrade process will do more intimate
> >things than updating some
> >file header block, creating a couple of new tables
> >in the data dictionary
> >and recreating view.
> >>
> >> Has anybody tried to upgrade from 9.x to 10g yet,
> >on some database of
> >decent size ?
> >>
> >> SF
> >>
> >> >- --- Original Message --- -
> >> >From: "Yechiel Adar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 05:54:25
> >> >
> >> >Wait for 10g. They say that you could just copy
> >the
> >> >datafiles and them plug
> >> >them in to he new database, even across
> >platforms.
> >> >
> >> >Yechiel Adar
> >> >Mehish
> >> >- Original Message -
> >> >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:24 AM
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hi List,
> >> >>
> >> >> Could someone please help me?
> >> >>
> >> >> Assumption situation - Platform migration of
> >> >Oracle DW on Oracle DB (data
> >> >> volume 3.5 TB) from HP-UX to IBM-AIX
> >> >>
> >> >> 1.. DB migration; it is correct to use
> >> >Export/Import technique/method in
> >> >> the above assumption?
> >> >> 2..  Witch is the time frame in a worst case
> >
> >> >for this (how many hours,
> >> >> days or weeks!!)?
> >> >> 3.. It is possible to apply the mentioned
> >> >technique or some other (witch
> >> >> one?) in uptime, totally or partially?
> >> >> 4.. Witches are the main tasks to consider
> >in a
> >> >planning schedule?
> >> >> 5.. Witches are the time frames associated
> >to
> >> >these tasks?
> >> >> Thanks
> >> >> Arm>o Teles
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> -- 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Stephane Faroult
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Tanel Poder
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: RE: RE: Backups

[Smith, Ron L.]

ECTED]

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RE: Backups



It would be interesting to see how you would explain how
either
cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the
concept
of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep
things
consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point
in

time operations.




-Original Message-
From: John Weatherman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>mailto:john.weatherman@replac
emen
ts.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Backups



This doesn't sound right.  Put the database in hot
backup
mode,
backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster
here
is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other
utility),
come out of hot backup mode.  Why wouldn't you be able
to
recover? 


John P Weatherman
Database Administrator
Replacements Ltd.




-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



If you want to be able to use any OS backup for
restore/recovery
that
database must be closed when you do the backup.  If it
is
not, you won't be
able to recover.


Just a thot,
Ruth


- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM



Robyn,
 We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW
devices.
It worked
fine except that it  used a lot of tape dumping a raw
device when only a
small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy
of
the data
on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed.
The dd
function
is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I
don't
know for
sure but I think there might be some issues about
transportability of
the dd tape.
Other users will know about the transportability
issues.
Ron
 ROR mª¿ªm


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM
>>>
Hello,


I need some info about backups.  I am working on a
customer
site, and
have implemented both exports and hot backups.  Both
jobs
copy to a
separate mount point, and a job scripted by another
individual
then
moves the files to tape.


Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily
because
it
provides a succinct output he can email to
non-technicals.  The file
system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array.  We've
provided
him with a
ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the
system
be
recovered from this tape?  Has anyone ever relied on a
dd
for a daily
backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.


Robyn


--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com";
TARGET="_blank">http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Fat City Network Services    -- 858-538-5051
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TARGET="_blank">http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego,
California   
-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
'ListGuru')
and in
the me

RE: RE: RE: Backups

[Jared . Still]

Unless:

You do a point in time recovery, find out you were
given the wrong time, and try  to do it again.

Not so simple, can't be done from the SQL*Bactrack menu.

Jared






"Smith, Ron L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10/03/2002 01:26 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
        Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups


SQL Backtrack and Netbackup! No manual tracking.  Restores couldn't be
simpler.

R. Smith

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Richard,

Distateful is being nice.  Try down right horrifying is a more
appriopriate
description.  Been There, Done that, now have three Unix SA's who handle 
it.

Life is so grand!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:53 AM

Yes I personally run Veritas Netbackup for both cold and RMAN.  A fiber
SAN has its added benefits as well =).  I have never really explored the
implications of these other utilities.  My head filled with many
distasteful visuals. Yes, I agree with you and I realize that I am
spoiled .

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:38 PM
To: Markham; Richard; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I've used cpio, dd, and fbackup to do hot and cold backups before, but 
never
again.  With those utilities the burden of keeping track of what is on 
which
tape rests with you and normally a stubby pencil & pad of paper because 
you
know
what won't be available when you need to do a recovery.  They do work be
assured, but the administrative overhead is just not worth it anymore, 
even
for
a small shop.  Get a copy of Veritas or OmniBack or some other software
package
that does library management for you and preferably integrates with RMAN.
Life
can be so much easier!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:03 AM

It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either
cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept
of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things
consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in 
time operations.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This doesn't sound right.  Put the database in hot backup mode,
backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
come out of hot backup mode.  Why wouldn't you be able to recover? 

John P Weatherman
Database Administrator
Replacements Ltd.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
database must be closed when you do the backup.  If it is not, you won't 
be
able to recover.

Just a thot,
Ruth

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


Robyn,
 We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
fine except that it  used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
the dd tape.
Other users will know about the transportability issues.
Ron
 ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
Hello,

I need some info about backups.  I am working on a customer site, and
have implemented both exports and hot backups.  Both jobs copy to a
separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
moves the files to tape.

Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals.  The file
system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array.  We've provided him with a
ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
recovered from this tape?  Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

Robyn

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, s

RE: RE: RE: Backups

[Smith, Ron L.]

You must be using an old version.  Been there done that.  Works!

Ron

PS: Also works on NT!

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Unless:

You do a point in time recovery, find out you were
given the wrong time, and try  to do it again.

Not so simple, can't be done from the SQL*Bactrack menu.

Jared






"Smith, Ron L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10/03/2002 01:26 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
        Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups


SQL Backtrack and Netbackup! No manual tracking.  Restores couldn't be
simpler.

R. Smith

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Richard,

Distateful is being nice.  Try down right horrifying is a more
appriopriate
description.  Been There, Done that, now have three Unix SA's who handle 
it.

Life is so grand!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:53 AM

Yes I personally run Veritas Netbackup for both cold and RMAN.  A fiber
SAN has its added benefits as well =).  I have never really explored the
implications of these other utilities.  My head filled with many
distasteful visuals. Yes, I agree with you and I realize that I am
spoiled .

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:38 PM
To: Markham; Richard; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I've used cpio, dd, and fbackup to do hot and cold backups before, but 
never
again.  With those utilities the burden of keeping track of what is on 
which
tape rests with you and normally a stubby pencil & pad of paper because 
you
know
what won't be available when you need to do a recovery.  They do work be
assured, but the administrative overhead is just not worth it anymore, 
even
for
a small shop.  Get a copy of Veritas or OmniBack or some other software
package
that does library management for you and preferably integrates with RMAN.
Life
can be so much easier!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:03 AM

It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either
cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept
of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things
consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in 
time operations.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This doesn't sound right.  Put the database in hot backup mode,
backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
come out of hot backup mode.  Why wouldn't you be able to recover? 

John P Weatherman
Database Administrator
Replacements Ltd.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
database must be closed when you do the backup.  If it is not, you won't 
be
able to recover.

Just a thot,
Ruth

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


Robyn,
 We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
fine except that it  used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
the dd tape.
Other users will know about the transportability issues.
Ron
 ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
Hello,

I need some info about backups.  I am working on a customer site, and
have implemented both exports and hot backups.  Both jobs copy to a
separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
moves the files to tape.

Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals.  The file
system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array.  We've provided him with a
ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
recovered from this tape?  Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

Robyn

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 htt

RE: RE: RE: Backups

[Jared . Still]

Not using any version of it now.

Veritas Net Backup and RMAN.

When BMC purchased DataTools, the support for SQL*Backtrack
really went down the tubes.  I don't know if it's improved or not, but
I don't really miss it now.

Jared





"Smith, Ron L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10/03/2002 02:38 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        cc: 
Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups


You must be using an old version.  Been there done that.  Works!

Ron

PS: Also works on NT!

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Unless:

You do a point in time recovery, find out you were
given the wrong time, and try  to do it again.

Not so simple, can't be done from the SQL*Bactrack menu.

Jared






"Smith, Ron L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10/03/2002 01:26 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups


SQL Backtrack and Netbackup! No manual tracking.  Restores couldn't be
simpler.

R. Smith

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Richard,

Distateful is being nice.  Try down right horrifying is a more
appriopriate
description.  Been There, Done that, now have three Unix SA's who handle 
it.

Life is so grand!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:53 AM

Yes I personally run Veritas Netbackup for both cold and RMAN.  A fiber
SAN has its added benefits as well =).  I have never really explored the
implications of these other utilities.  My head filled with many
distasteful visuals. Yes, I agree with you and I realize that I am
spoiled .

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:38 PM
To: Markham; Richard; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I've used cpio, dd, and fbackup to do hot and cold backups before, but 
never
again.  With those utilities the burden of keeping track of what is on 
which
tape rests with you and normally a stubby pencil & pad of paper because 
you
know
what won't be available when you need to do a recovery.  They do work be
assured, but the administrative overhead is just not worth it anymore, 
even
for
a small shop.  Get a copy of Veritas or OmniBack or some other software
package
that does library management for you and preferably integrates with RMAN.
Life
can be so much easier!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:03 AM

It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either
cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept
of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things
consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in 
time operations.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This doesn't sound right.  Put the database in hot backup mode,
backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
come out of hot backup mode.  Why wouldn't you be able to recover? 

John P Weatherman
Database Administrator
Replacements Ltd.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
database must be closed when you do the backup.  If it is not, you won't 
be
able to recover.

Just a thot,
Ruth

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


Robyn,
 We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
fine except that it  used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
the dd tape.
Other users will know about the transportability issues.
Ron
 ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
Hello,

I need some info about backups.  I am working on a customer site, and
have implemented both exports and hot backups.  Both jobs copy to a
separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
moves the files to tape.

Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
p

RE: RE: RE: Rant

[Gogala, Mladen]

Do you believe them? 

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone: (203) 459-6855
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]



> -Original Message-
> From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant
> 
> 
> IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing.
> 
> ltiu
> 
> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> 
> > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park 
> his/her stupid
> > cartesian product sql statement!!
> > 
> > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure.
> > 
> > Dick Goulet
> > 
> > Reply Separator
> > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date:   7/22/2002 12:14 PM
> > 
> > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need 
> > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i.
> > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will
> > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the 
> > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread 
> > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum 
> > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office 
> > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of
> > "I have a dream" speach.
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: ltiu
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Gogala, Mladen
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: RE: RE: Rant

[Sunil_Nookala]

what about self destruction??

Sunil
> -Original Message-
> From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant
> 
> 
> IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing.
> 
> ltiu
> 
> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> 
> > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park 
> his/her stupid
> > cartesian product sql statement!!
> > 
> > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure.
> > 
> > Dick Goulet
> > 
> > Reply Separator
> > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date:   7/22/2002 12:14 PM
> > 
> > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need 
> > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i.
> > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will
> > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the 
> > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread 
> > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum 
> > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office 
> > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of
> > "I have a dream" speach.
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: ltiu
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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> 
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
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Author: Gogala, Mladen
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RE: RE: RE: Rant

[Orr, Steve]

Sounds like a movie I watched this weekend... "Species." It's all science
fiction to me.


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:02 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing.

ltiu

Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> Right and the database will tell the end user where to park his/her stupid
> cartesian product sql statement!!
> 
> Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   7/22/2002 12:14 PM
> 
> What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need 
> a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i.
> You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will
> tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the 
> best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread 
> iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum 
> amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office 
> products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of
> "I have a dream" speach.
> 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Orr, Steve
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: RE: RE: Rant

[ltiu]

Yes. I do. Because they're IBM.

Quoting "Gogala, Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Do you believe them? 
> 
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
> Phone: (203) 459-6855
> Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant
> > 
> > 
> > IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing.
> > 
> > ltiu
> > 
> > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > 
> > > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park 
> > his/her stupid
> > > cartesian product sql statement!!
> > > 
> > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure.
> > > 
> > > Dick Goulet
> > > 
> > > Reply Separator
> > > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date:   7/22/2002 12:14 PM
> > > 
> > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need 
> > > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i.
> > > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will
> > > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the 
> > > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread 
> > > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum 
> > > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office 
> > > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of
> > > "I have a dream" speach.
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: ltiu
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> > 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Gogala, Mladen
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 




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Author: ltiu
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: RE: RE: Rant

[Boivin, Patrice J]

Self-healing... did it have gaping wounds before?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

-Original Message-
Sent:   Monday, July 22, 2002 8:02 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:RE: RE: RE: Rant

Yes. I do. Because they're IBM.

Quoting "Gogala, Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Do you believe them? 
> 
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
> Phone: (203) 459-6855
> Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant
> > 
> > 
> > IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing.
> > 
> > ltiu
> > 
> > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > 
> > > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park 
> > his/her stupid
> > > cartesian product sql statement!!
> > > 
> > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure.
> > > 
> > > Dick Goulet
> > > 
> > > Reply Separator
> > > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date:   7/22/2002 12:14 PM
> > > 
> > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need 
> > > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i.
> > > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will
> > > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the 
> > > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread 
> > > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum 
> > > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office 
> > > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of
> > > "I have a dream" speach.
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: ltiu
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> > 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Gogala, Mladen
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 




-- 
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-- 
Author: ltiu
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Author: Boivin, Patrice J
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Re: RE: RE: Rant

[ltiu]

Yes, of course. Because they are not Oracle.

On Monday 22 July 2002 19:08, you wrote:
> Self-healing... did it have gaping wounds before?
>
> Regards,
> Patrice Boivin
> Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 8:02 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  RE: RE: RE: Rant
>
> Yes. I do. Because they're IBM.
>
> Quoting "Gogala, Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Do you believe them?
> >
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> > Phone: (203) 459-6855
> > Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant
> > >
> > >
> > > IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing.
> > >
> > > ltiu
> > >
> > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > > > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park
> > >
> > > his/her stupid
> > >
> > > > cartesian product sql statement!!
> > > >
> > > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure.
> > > >
> > > > Dick Goulet
> > > >
> > > > Reply Separator
> > > > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Date:   7/22/2002 12:14 PM
> > > >
> > > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need
> > > > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i.
> > > > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will
> > > > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the
> > > > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread
> > > > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum
> > > > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office
> > > > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of
> > > > "I have a dream" speach.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > --
> > > Author: ltiu
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> > > 
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Gogala, Mladen
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> > 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: RE: RE: Siebel.

[Mohan, Ross]

Dick, 

question for yaif you "owned" Siebel, lock, stock and barrel,
what would you do?

1) Fix and switch ALL RI to the database ( oracle and ms and ibm and others)
2) Just fix it where it is broken, but leave it in the app itself
3) leave it out but publish a tech spec document telling users/DBAs how
and where to implement RI constraints.
4) something else. 

I am curious how you would solve Tom Siebel's problem of shipping an app
across, say, four or five major different dbms platforms while
simultaneously
keeping bugs, development costs , requiring consulting and document costs
down, 
and upgrade schedules and bug fixes in place. 

In other words...if you were "god" how would you fix this problem you see?

curious, 

Ross

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 4:30 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Dennis,

You ought to be a sales droid!  That was a perfectly worded reply and in
MANY instances I'll agree with you.  The ease or of lack thereof in
administering an application is very often decided on by damagement by
whether
or not they need a dedicated/specialized resource to handle it.  Therefore
sales
droids will constantly downplay that requirement, until the check is in
hand. 
Actually sales droids downplay a lot of requirements for their software
until
the deal is in the bank.  Then they drop the bomb.  And then people like us
are
left to clean up.

Dick Goulet

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Mohan, Ross
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: RE: RE: Siebel.

[Linda . Miller-Coker]

You'd almost have to be God to fix it.it consists of 1000s of tables.
It took me 2 weeks to reverse into Designer.  My customer is not welling to
pay for the time to fix the design.




"Mohan, Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>@fatcity.com on 11/29/2001 04:17:58 PM

Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Sent by:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:


Dick,

question for yaif you "owned" Siebel, lock, stock and barrel,
what would you do?

1) Fix and switch ALL RI to the database ( oracle and ms and ibm and
others)
2) Just fix it where it is broken, but leave it in the app itself
3) leave it out but publish a tech spec document telling users/DBAs how
 and where to implement RI constraints.
4) something else.

I am curious how you would solve Tom Siebel's problem of shipping an app
across, say, four or five major different dbms platforms while
simultaneously
keeping bugs, development costs , requiring consulting and document costs
down,
and upgrade schedules and bug fixes in place.

In other words...if you were "god" how would you fix this problem you see?

curious,

Ross

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 4:30 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Dennis,

You ought to be a sales droid!  That was a perfectly worded reply and
in
MANY instances I'll agree with you.  The ease or of lack thereof in
administering an application is very often decided on by damagement by
whether
or not they need a dedicated/specialized resource to handle it.  Therefore
sales
droids will constantly downplay that requirement, until the check is in
hand.
Actually sales droids downplay a lot of requirements for their software
until
the deal is in the bank.  Then they drop the bomb.  And then people like us
are
left to clean up.

Dick Goulet

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Mohan, Ross
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: RE: Re: Jobs

[Jon Walthour]

Jenny, et. al.

I'm right there with you on this. I don't have a problem with
someone announcing, "Hey, I'm looking for a job. Anybody know
of positions in blah-blah?" What I don't care for the resume
attachments and would just ask if it could be discontinued in
the future.

Jon Walthour

>--- Original Message ---
>From: Jenny Jacobson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: 7/23/01 10:30:52 AM
>

>IMHO: If recruiters can post jobs, each of us can post our need
for a job.
>
>However, sending a resume is unnecessary.  If someone is interestered,
>they can contact the poster privately and request a resume.
>
>Jenny Jacobson
>www.oracle-dba-consulting.com
>
>
>On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Jon Walthour wrote:
>
>> 
>> 
>> Listers:
>> 
>> Is it appropriate to be sending one's resume to the mailing
list
>> (especially as an attachment)? I don't think so, but have
not
>> heard much to that effect thus far. So, maybe it is. Can someone
>> please enlighten me?
>> 
>> Jon Walthour
>> 
>> >--- Original Message ---
>> >From: "C.S.Venkata Subramanian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Date: 7/23/01 8:30:27 AM
>> >
>> Hello,
>> >I'm currently working in India as Oracle DBA. I'm willing
to
>> relocate to UK or Europe for a descent salary. I'm attaching
>> my resume with this mail. 
>> >
>> >Expecting to hear from you
>> >
>> >Regards
>> >Venkata Subramanian C.S.
>> >--
>> >
>> >On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:30:50  
>> > Culum Slater wrote:
>> >>Hello Oracle professionals,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Are there any Oracle DBA's currently looking for work in
and
>> around London, England.
>> >>
>> >>If so, send me a copy of your cv and I will do my best to
find
>> you the right job.
>> >>
>> >>We are an Oracle specialist recruitment consultancy.
>> >>
>> >>Regards
>> >>
>> >>Culum Slater
>> >>Managing Director
>> >>CMS Global Ltd
>> >>
>> >>D/L: 01923 233196
>> >>
>> >>M/N: 07960 113 738
>> >>
>> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >>
>> >>CMS Global Ltd, 39 Elizabeth House, Watford, Herts, WD24
4RE
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
>> >http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>> -- 
>> Author: Jon Walthour
>>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 
>> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858)
538-5051
>> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
Lists
>> 
>> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
message
>> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
and in
>> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).
 You may
>> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>> 
>
>-- 
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>-- 
>Author: Jenny Jacobson
>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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RE: RE: Re: NYOUG

[Jim Hawkins]

Rachel,

SLOUG would definitely pay your travel expenses, and since our meetings run from 1PM 
to 5PM, it could really amount to just a day trip for you if you want.  You could fly 
in that morning, have some lunch, deliver your topic, then take off (unless you wanted 
to see the city of St. Louis or something).  We meet every other month, and the next 
meeting is in April (the third Thursday).  I realize this could be too soon, so maybe 
the June or August meeting.  Or, I totally understand if you've decided to give up the 
speaking gig altogether, so don't feel bad saying "NO!"

And also, thanks for the other information about finding speakers.

Jim

P.S.  Our website is www.sloug.org in case you are interested.

Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Jim,
>
>I might be interested in speaking, depends on dates and if the user
>group pays expenses :)  I am  supposedly cutting back on doing
>presentations.
>
>Meanwhile, NYOUG doesn't pay expenses, but unlike most other user
>groups I've been to, we have a significant number of speakers. Most
>others have 2-3 speakers for the day and we have 11 speakers each
>meeting.  We are changing this for our September meeting and going
>forward, we will continue to have a keynote but will have 4
>presentation time slots rather than 5, giving speakers a few more
>minutes for questions, and to allow the next speaker to set up while
>the prior speaker is still answering questions.
>
>As to how I get speakers... we post a call for papers on our website
>and I've gotten some excellent speakers that way. I go to conferences
>and buttonhole people there who are good speakers. NYOUG has an
>excellent member base and they on occasion ask to present. I beg and
>plead and grovel before my friends as well :)  The other members of the
>board also beat up (er, persuade) people they meet to get in touch with
>me for possible presentations.
>
>Rachel
>
>
>--- Jim Hawkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Rachel,
>> 
>> On a related note, I am now on the St. Louis OUG board, and have the
>> same responsibilities of arranging speakers.  May I ask what your
>> methodology is for this, as well as if you would be interested in
>> speaking?
>> 
>> :)
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> >well, I'll be there, I sorta kinda have to, since I organize the
>> >speakers and chair the DBA SIG
>> >
>> >it will be a very good meeting.. all authors, Kevin Loney, Rich
>> >Niemiec, John Beresniewicz, Douglas Scherer, Gaja Krishna
>> Vaidyanatha,
>> >Ulka Rodgers, Paul Dorsey (I don't think I've left anyone out, this
>> is
>> >from memory!)
>> >
>> >check the website... www.nyoug.org
>> >
>> >
>> >--- "Sakthi , Raj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> Listers,
>> >> Talking about IOUG, I was wondering who are all
>> >> attending NYOUG (damagement won't spansor me to attend
>> >> IOUG ;( )
>> >> 
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> RS 
>> >> 
>> >> __
>> >> Do You Yahoo!?
>> >> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
>> >> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>> >> -- 
>> >> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>> >> -- 
>> >> Author: Sakthi , Raj
>> >>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> 
>> >> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858)
>> 538-5051
>> >> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
>> >> Lists
>> >>
>> 
>> >> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>> >> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and
>> in
>> >> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>> >> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You
>> may
>> >> also send the HELP command for other information (like
>> subscribing).
>> >
>> >
>> >__
>> >Do You Yahoo!?
>> >Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
>> >http://mail.yahoo.com/
>> >-- 
>> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>> >-- 
>> >Author: Rachel Carmichael
>> >  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>> >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
>> Lists
>> >
>> >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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>> >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>> >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>> >
>> -- 
>> _
>> Jim Hawkins
>> Oracle Database Administrator
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> St. Louis, MO  USA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __
>> Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and

RE: RE: RE: Bulkcopy

[Weaver, Walt]

Darn. Thanks for the info, Dick.

--Walt

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 11:41 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Walt,

I'm going to refrain from sendign teh enire thread as it's getting BIG.

Ahyhow, No it will not be retrofitted to Oracle 8/8I.  And it may or may
not
be totally functional in 9.0.

Dick Goulet
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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: OT: Rachel in Vietnam

[Mohan, Ross]

Title: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: OT: Rachel in Vietnam





Wow. Talk about enforcing "foreign constraints".


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:01 PM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re:RE: RE: RE: RE: OT: Rachel in Vietnam



Ross,


    When a B-52, otherwise known as a BUFF (Big Ugly Fat F^cker), unloads 150 to
200(B-52D with wing racks) 750LB demolition bombs nothing stands.  Even
duhvelopers.  I've had Marines discribe the area where a BUFF strike landed as
"It looked like God reached down, scooped out a three mile long by half a mile
wide, by 100 foot deep piece of the earth and take it away".  I don't know about
cool, but it sure was effective!!


Dick Goulet


Reply Separator____________________
Subject:    RE: RE: RE: RE: OT: Rachel in Vietnam
Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2001 4:28 PM


BUFF bomb. That sounds cool. Will it work on developers?


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:18 PM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re:RE: RE: RE: OT: Rachel in Vietnam



Ross,


    Makes sense, Nam was BUG heaven, unless they got caught in the path of a
BUFF bomb run.  Nothing survived that. :-)


Dick Goulet


Reply Separator
Subject:    RE: RE: RE: OT: Rachel in Vietnam
Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2001 8:02 AM


Dick , 


Didn't you know? Rachel WAS in Nam. But she 
never talks about it. I think it had to do
with the bugs. 


Just a thought. 


Ross


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 8:32 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Rachel,


    If you were given one, as I was in Nam, you'd not know the difference. 
Looks like, & tastes like a crunch bar for the most part, except for the
logo on
top.  It just crunches better.


Dick Goulet


Reply Separator
Author: "Rachel Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2001 4:10 PM


but Moom, the icky bugs TOUCHED the chocolate!   :)




>From: Kimberly Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: RE: OT: Oracle *Chocolate* Monitoring Tools/Friday Recipe
>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:45:29 -0800
>
>You could just lick the chocolate off.
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 10:11 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> I have a phobia about bugs...
>
>what a waste of perfectly good chocolate
>
>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re:RE: OT: Oracle *Chocolate* Monitoring Tools/Friday Recipe
> >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:11:20 -0800
> >
> >OK you chocaholics try this on for size:
> >
> >  Reuters Monday, March 19, 2001
> >
> >Chocolate-Coated Bugs Are Latest Treat
> >
> >LONDON (Reuters) - Ants, crickets and scorpions, baked, coated
> >in chocolate and promoted as a high-protein snack, are proving
> >popular among peckish Londoners.
> >
> >Designer Todd Dalton, who trained as a chef in Louisiana and
> >acquired a taste for cooked insects on his travels in Asia and
> >central America, says he has sold 5,000 chocolate-coated bugs
> >since he began marketing them in December.
> >
> >"They are very high in protein and very low in fat. They have a
> >higher percentage of protein than any meat or fish that we
> >commonly eat," he told Reuters.
> >
> >The creepy-crawly chocs sell for between three and 3.50 pounds
> >($4.30-$5.00) at upmarket London stores such as Selfridges and
> >the Conran Shop and will soon be appearingin shops in Munich
> >and Zurich.
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >--
> >Author:
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> >San Diego, California    -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> >
> >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> >also send the HELP command for 

RE: RE: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)

[Mladen Gogala]

Then, you have a problem with the number of processes on the OS level. The
investigation should continue on the server.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: bhabani s pradhan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:46 PM
> To: Mladen Gogala
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> 
> 
> its a 2gig memory
> 
> shmsys:shminfo_shmmax=4294967295
> shmsys:shminfo_shmmin=1
> 
> parameter processes = 150
> 
> and v$process returns 25
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
> >You don't have enough oracle processes on the server. Increase
> >"PROCESSES"
> >parameter.
> >You might need to adjust SHMMAX and SEMMNS in /etc/system
> >
> >--
> >Mladen Gogala
> >Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-----
> > > From: bhabani s pradhan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:34 PM
> > > To: Mladen Gogala
> > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> > >
> > >
> > > donot know much about unix
> > > shell variables are exported
> > >
> > >  from the client machine it soes not return anything: 
> WW_WS> truss 
> > > -o /tmp/truss.out -af tnsping tradedb1 WW_WS>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > i got this from the listener.log
> > >
> > > 12-SEP-2003 11:24:45 *
> > > 
> >(CONNECT_DATA=(SERVICE_NAME=TRADEDB1)(CID=(PROGRAM=)(HOST=trad
> > > e-host2)(USER=rubix)))
> > > * (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=10.10.8.27)(PORT=40838)) * 
> establish 
> > > * TRADEDB1 * 12500
> > > TNS-12500: TNS:listener failed to start a dedicated server process
> > >   TNS-12540: TNS:internal limit restriction exceeded
> > >TNS-12560: TNS:protocol adapter error
> > > TNS-00510: Internal limit restriction exceeded
> > >  Solaris Error: 12: Not enough space
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > ===
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
> > > >OK, this seems to have been created with netca. Are your
> >shell
> > > >variables
> > > >exported? You should do "truss -o /tmp/truss.out -af
> >tnsping
> > > >tradedb1".
> > > >That should tell you where does the error occur. Bus error
> >means
> > > >that the
> > > >process cannot connect to the server. It's very similar in
> >nature
> > > >to
> > > >ORA-3113.
> > > >If it was oracle process you were trying to connect, you'd
> >get an
> > > >oracle
> > > >error,
> > > >but your're getting bus error, which means that the problem
> >is on
> > > >the OS
> > > >level.
> > > >Turn on tracing (TRACE_LEVEL=ADMIN in sqlnet.ora on both
> >server
> > > >and client)
> > > >and
> > > >see what that gives you. What else can you tell me? Is
> >there
> > > >anything
> > > >unusual
> > > >in that combination? Did it work before? What has changed?
> >How
> > > >much
> > > >experience
> > > >do you have with Unix and oracle?
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Mladen Gogala
> > > >Oracle DBA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: bhabani s pradhan
> >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:03 PM
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > Cc: Mladen Gogala
> > > > > Subject: Re: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > both client and server on Sun OS 5.8
> > > > >
> > > > > ORACLE_HOME and ORACLE_SID in .profile
> > > > >
> > > > > tnsnames.ora
> > > > > 
> > > > > TRADEDB1 =
> > > > >(DESCRIPTION =
> > > > >  (ADDRESS_LIST =
> > > > >(ADDRESS = (PROTOCOL = TCP)(HOST = trade-db1)(PORT
> >=
> > > > > 1521))
> > > > >  )
> > > > >  (CONNECT_DATA =
> > > > >(SERVICE_NAME = TRADEDB1)
> > > 

RE: Re[2]: RE: RE: historical data

[Christopher Spence]

 I would hate to have to say it would take 7 days to do a restore.

-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 5/22/01 10:15 PM

 Well when you advertise that it can take 7 business days to restore the

data fast is not a consideration.

Dick Goulet
-- Reply Separator --
Author: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 5/22/01 3:09 PM

Oh, yes agreed 110%.

But on another note, import/export is not fast.  That is the only reason

I
mention these other options.
But I agree 100%.  The other difficulty is if you want to import that 
data
into a different format, exports do not help much as you have to import
(Perhaps a big table) then convert it.


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:59 PM
To: Christopher Spence; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Chris,

Humm, did not think that was clear, but!!  We started using export 
to
extract data from our operational data store back in 92 with Oracle 
Version
5 to
tape.  These files, copied now to CD's are still usable with Oracle 8i.
That's
10 years and no problems.  If I can depend on something with Oracle, 
they
maintain a backwards compatibility with the import tool that I haven't 
found
the
end of yet.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/22/2001 2:20 PM

I am not sure what you are saying here, but ok sure.


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:31 PM
To: Christopher Spence; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Chris,

I've been exporting data in a similar way as you since V5.  The 8i
version
of import still reads them without trouble.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/22/2001 7:13 AM

Take a look at Thomas's Kytes utility "Data Unloadder" on his website.

Also look at Oriole's PDQ OUT.  Both products will avoid the need to
recreate the wheel.
Also, toad can do this.


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 6:17 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


We have to role off partitions of data every week and I am writing a 
script
to 
write the data to comma separated files using utl_file. What I was 
wondering
is
does anyone have an alternative that is better? I thought about using 
export
but
thought it wouldn't be fun trying to import an export file into the 
latest
version
of Oracle 10 years down the road. 

Thanks, Dave
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RE: RE:

[Stephane Faroult]

Mark,

  All right, I see it better. If I were you I would try arithmetic methods. To take 
your example, when you start with
10110011 
it means
power(2,7) + power(2,5) + power(2,4) + power(2,1)
   + power(2,0)

What you want is nothing else than
3 * power(4,7) + 3 * power(4,5) + 3 * power(4, 4)
+ 3 * power(4, 1) + 3 * power(4,0)

... if I don't err.
In other words, if you consider your 1s to mark powers of 4 instead of 2 and multiply 
by 3 instead of 1 each time, you have your expansion.
  I let you write the PL/SQL function ;-).

HTH

SF

>- --- Original Message --- -
>From: "Bobak, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:34:27
>
>Hi Stephane,
>
>I of course simplified the problem a bit.  However,
>the bitmaps are actually
>artificial entities which I'm building up from some
>underlying tables and
>some clever indexing schemes.  The problem is, I
>don't have total data model
>control, and the permissions and storage info are
>stored in two different
>tables.  Through some clever indexing and views,
>I'm presenting two different
>bitmap views.  The idea is I can do a unique lookup
>on storage, a unique
>lookup on permissions, and then AND them together
>and provide a resultant
>bitmap, availability.  The front-end app will then
>use that availability
>bitmap to decide what options to present to the
>end-user.  The problem is
>the heterogeneous nature of the two bitmaps.
>
>Finally, I'm fully utilizing the bitspace I have,
>because the 2 bits for
>permission represent two different (and
>independent) pieces of info.  In
>the example you provide below, there is no way to
>express P1 AND P2 with
>storage.  In other words, my permissions matrix
>looks like:
>00 - No permissions
>01 - Permission for user to acquire doc via email
>10 - Permission for user to acquire doc via on-line
>viewing
>11 - Permission for user to acquire doc via email
>or on-line
>
>Note that the bitmap is full, and storage has not
>entered into the
>picture yet.  So, Storage will say either 0, not
>stored or 1, stored.
>
>I need to AND the permissions and the storage. 
>But, I need to AND the
>single bit storage with two bits of permissions.
>
>Does that make more sense?
>
>-Mark
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From:   Stephane Faroult
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent:   Tue 1/6/2004 5:13 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Cc: 
>Subject:RE: 
>Mark,
>
>   This is what spontaneously comes to my mind and
>may not make a lot of sense in your case, but why
>do you need TWO bitmaps in the first place? Your
>second (Permission) bitmap uses 2 bits to store
>three states (no permission/P1/P2). This is enough
>to hold the STORAGE information as well,
>  eg
>  00  Not stored
>  01  Stored with no permission
>  10  Stored with P1
>  11  Stored with P2
> I of course assume, and may be wrong on this
>account, that storage is a pre-requisite for
>permission. Otherwise I would use 24 bits.
>I presume that your bitmaps don't appear as such,
>and therefore whether you have one or two fields is
>pretty irrelevant to the end-user. It looks to me
>easier to understand and maintain that some
>Rubik-cube-like bit-twiddling.
>
>HTH,
>
>SF
>
>>- --- Original Message --- -
>>From: "Bobak, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Sent: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:39:25
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Well, since I can't sleep, I may as well try
>>solving a problem.
>>
>>This is a bit odd, and I'm trying to think of the
>>most efficient way to do
>>it.  I've set up some bitmaps in my app.  Consider
>
>>we have documents that
>>we want to sell.  In order to be able to sell a
>>given doc, we need to have it
>>stored in the vault and we also need to have
>>negotiated the proper contract
>>w/ the publisher.  So, I've got two bitmaps,
>>STORAGE and PERMISSIONS.
>>
>>But, here's the hook.  There are 8 different types
>
>>of storage, so I have
>>an 8 bit mask.  However, for every storage type,
>>there are two types of
>>permission.  So, I have a 16 bit permissions mask.
>
>>
>>What I'd like to do is take my 8-bit STORAGE mask,
>
>>say it's 10110011
>>and convert it to 1100.  Note that all
>
>>I did there was take
>>each bit in the input mask, and make the same
>value
&

Re: Re:

[novicedba]

thanks rachel
waiting for it
coz
I am a
novice
Oracle Certifiable DBBS
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 8:28 PM


> You didn't read the paper, just the slide presentation.
>
> If a slide presentation is done properly, then no, you can't get
everything
> from it. Otherwise why bother to a) stand in front of the room and present
> it, the attendees can just read the slides  and b) write the paper backing
> it up. My opinion only, but a presentation that is too filled with
> words/lines on the screen is not understandable when being presented..
it's
> distracting from the speaker.
>
> In fact, this presentation was deliberately written without explanations,
as
> our goal was to make people wonder if the statement was a myth or not. We
> then started our discussion of each bullet point, and got the audience to
> participate, giving their own interpretations. Marlene and I designed that
> presentation as an all day workshop, and it was meant first and foremost
to
> be educational AND entertaining.
>
> The paper will be on the NYOUG website in a few days.
>
> Rachel
>
>
> >From: "novicedba" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 03:36:54 -0800
> >
> >Hi Rachel,
> >read your paper 'exploding the myths' , but felt that explanation was
> >necessary atleast for some of them if not all. All along I felt the first
> >few slides were introduction and you will discuss each of the points in
> >detail, and was totally fooled when in the last slide you said " really
the
> >end. Honest. No, really. Really truly, no fingers crossed! "   as I was
> >waiting to see the explanations for all the statements.
> >Will be waiting for your response
> >please help
> >coz
> >I am a
> >novice
> >Oracle Certifiable DBBS
>
> _
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Rachel Carmichael
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Re: RE:

[Greg Moore]

And then there's always...

SELECT
 s.study_id,
 s.status, 
 decode(sp.status,  'A',  sp.status,  ' ')
FROM study s, site_placement sp
WHERE s.study_id = 5014
AND   s.study_id = sp.study_id(+)
AND   s.status   = 'A'
/


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RE: RE:

[Mohan, Ross]

Jaysus, note the date and time. It's a freaking miracle. 

;-)

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:54 AM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


OOPS! sorry, your right

Reply Separator
Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/21/2001 7:40 AM

"cascade"?  probably more abject ignorance on my part, but wasn't it
"including contents"?

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Startup mount
alter database datafile '/data/db/database/core.dbf' offline drop;
alter database open;
drop tablespace  cascade;


Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: =?iso-8859-2?q?Mou=E8ka=20Otakar?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/21/2001 5:40 AM

 Hello
I need a help with one problem. In the Oracle version 8.1.7 I've deleted
a "tablespace" in the Linux, but before this I did't use a function "
Drop".
 After reboot a database, there was a error:
ERROR at line 1:
ORA-01116: error in opening database file 7
ORA-01110: data file 7: '/data/db/database/core.dbf'
ORA-27041: unable to open file
Linux Error: 2: No such file or directory
Additional information: 3
Is there a some re-step to drop "tablespace" and then regulary delete
this object and restart the database ?
  Thanx a lot for your answer.

Ota Moucka
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Re: RE:

[Moucka otakar]

I have next problem , syntax its ok.

SQL> Startup mount
alter database datafile '/data/db/database/core.dbf' offline drop;
alter database open;
drop tablespace  including content;
ORACLE instance started.
 
Total System Global Area  178213024 bytes
Fixed Size73888 bytes
Variable Size 161189888 bytes
Database Buffers   16777216 bytes
Redo Buffers 172032 bytes
Database mounted.
SQL>
Database altered.
 
SQL>
Database altered.
 
SQL> drop tablespace  including content
*
ERROR at line 1:
ORA-02216: tablespace name expected



Dne st 21. listopad 2001 17:03 jste napsal(a):
> Jaysus, note the date and time. It's a freaking miracle.
>
> ;-)
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:54 AM
> To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> OOPS! sorry, your right
>
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   11/21/2001 7:40 AM
>
> "cascade"?  probably more abject ignorance on my part, but wasn't it
> "including contents"?
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:15 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Startup mount
> alter database datafile '/data/db/database/core.dbf' offline drop;
> alter database open;
> drop tablespace  cascade;
>
>
> Dick Goulet
>
> Reply Separator
> Author: =?iso-8859-2?q?Mou=E8ka=20Otakar?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   11/21/2001 5:40 AM
>
>  Hello
> I need a help with one problem. In the Oracle version 8.1.7 I've deleted
> a "tablespace" in the Linux, but before this I did't use a function "
> Drop".
>  After reboot a database, there was a error:
> ERROR at line 1:
> ORA-01116: error in opening database file 7
> ORA-01110: data file 7: '/data/db/database/core.dbf'
> ORA-27041: unable to open file
> Linux Error: 2: No such file or directory
> Additional information: 3
> Is there a some re-step to drop "tablespace" and then regulary delete
> this object and restart the database ?
>   Thanx a lot for your answer.
>
> Ota Moucka
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-- 
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Re: RE: RE: Data Modeling

[bhabani s pradhan]

Thanks for the information. The thumb rule and all will definitely help me in 
modelling.

Thanks a Lot




Best Regards
B S Pradhan







On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 Michael Milligan wrote :
>Hi Again,
>
>What I do when a model is going to change is try to make it as flexible as
>possible from the start. Build more abstraction into the model than you
>normally would. Normalization is even more important here, even going to 4th
>or 5th form, or at least Boyce-Codd 3rd. You want to design it so that when
>someone wants to change the structure, it may be facilitated by the addition
>of a new record instead of a new column. A very simplistic example would be
>to have a separate address entity allowing for the possibility of multiple
>addresses per customer, instead of building the address attributes right
>into the customer entity. A good rule of thumb: whatever will change should
>be changeable by addition or subtraction of a row. Whatever won't change is
>a candidate for a column. That's a generalization, but a good rule
>nonetheless.
>
>Data Architect from Sybase, ER/Studio from Embarcadero, Erwin from Computer
>Associates are all good tools and easy to learn. QDesigner is the Data
>Architect physical modeler repackaged by Quest and sold for less. Excellent
>tool.
>
>Michael
>
>
>This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or
>proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to
>which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended
>recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that
>any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If
>you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying
>to this message and delete this e-mail immediately.
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
>--
>Author: Michael Milligan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Re: Re: RE: Index behavior

[Saminathan]

Hi Wolfgang

Thanks  for your valuable information. But still I could not understand how the 
cardinality will be calculated in EXPLAIN PLAN?

In my query 
(1)AB% returns (220 rows selected) but (card=2)
(2)ABC% returns (207 rows selected) but (card=12607 )

Could someone please explain to me?

Thanks in advance
-Sami


-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 07:19:24 -0800

Actually, it has nothing to do with any of the table or index statistics.
OK, almost nothing. I suppose if Jonathan (Lewis) can get the optimizer to 
do a FTS on an umpteen billion row table to retrieve a single row by its 
prime key, one can concoct a scenario of statistics values, aided by init 
or session parameters, that would cause the CBO to use a full table scan to 
resolve "where name like 'AB%".
Back to the topic. I did a test and the situation is easily reproduceable. 
What happens is that as the like comparison string gets short, the 
selectivity of the predicate decreases ( if you look at the 10053 trace, 
the TBSEL value increases but that is the same paradoxon as with 
performance: if something gets faster, did its performance decrease? ) as 
one would expect. The TBSEL selectivity value and the rate of its increase 
depends on the length of the like comparison string and the average column 
length. When it gets down to the transition from ABC% to AB%, that trend 
breaks sharply and suddenly the selectivity increases by orders of 
magnitude ( TBSEL decreases by a huge factor ). for "like A%" it decreases 
again, but is still lower (depends on avg col length) than the selectivity 
of "like ABC%".
You can see that in the following test. The cardinality reflects the 
changes in the tbsel value (cardinality = tbsel * num_rows, which was 
10,000 for the test).

select id from sam where name like 'ABCDEFGHI%';
  card operation
- --
 1 SELECT STATEMENT
 1   TABLE ACCESS BY INDEX ROWID SAM
 1 INDEX RANGE SCAN SAM_IX

select id from sam where name like 'ABCDEFGH%';
  card operation
- ---
 1 SELECT STATEMENT
 1   TABLE ACCESS BY INDEX ROWID SAM
 1 INDEX RANGE SCAN SAM_IX

select id from sam where name like 'ABCDEFG%';
  card operation
- ---
57 SELECT STATEMENT
57   TABLE ACCESS FULL SAM

select id from sam where name like 'ABCDEF%';
  card operation
- ---
   100 SELECT STATEMENT
   100   TABLE ACCESS FULL SAM

select id from sam where name like 'ABCDE%';
  card operation
- ---
   178 SELECT STATEMENT
   178   TABLE ACCESS FULL SAM

select id from sam where name like 'ABCD%';
  card operation
- ---
   317 SELECT STATEMENT
   317   TABLE ACCESS FULL SAM

select id from sam where name like 'ABC%';
  card operation
- ---
   563 SELECT STATEMENT
   563   TABLE ACCESS FULL SAM

select id from sam where name like 'AB%';
  card operation
- ---
 2 SELECT STATEMENT
 2   TABLE ACCESS BY INDEX ROWID SAM
 2 INDEX RANGE SCAN SAM_IX

select id from sam where name like 'A%';
  card operation
- ---
   297 SELECT STATEMENT
   297   TABLE ACCESS FULL SAM

At 04:29 PM 11/5/2003, you wrote:
>Hi Goulet,
>
>The clustering factor on the index=37930
>number of distinct keys=38357
>number of leaf blocks=1075

Wolfgang Breitling
Oracle7, 8, 8i, 9i OCP DBA
Centrex Consulting Corporation
http://www.centrexcc.com 


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Re: RE: RE: orbitz fiasco

[Tanel Poder]

Nope, TRU64

Tanel.


> Was this on AIX by any chance ??
> 
> Raj
> --
> --
> 
> Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
> All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
> QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 11:20 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Btw, my colleague was working on a 9.0.1.3 RAC project where hang of
> one
> node caused hang of all other ones. Now that's high availability ;)
> 
> Tanel.
> 
> 
> **
> **
> **
> This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named
> recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged,
> attorney
> work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you
> have
> received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s),
> please
> immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 and delete this
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> --
> Author: Jamadagni, Rajendra
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> 
> 

Re: Re: Re: Index usage

[bhabani s pradhan]

Thanks.

Regards,
B S Pradhan

-


On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 zhu chao wrote :
>Hi,
> To see why oracle choose FTS, alter session set events '10053 trace name context 
> forever,level 2';
> You can do alter session to change index_adj and optimizer_index_caching  to 
> change only your session, or using hint.
>
>Regards
>Zhu Chao.
>
>- Original Message -
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 8:09 PM
>
>
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>Agreed.. and it should behave that way i.e
>
>if (cost of ind1 scan + then based on c1's selection table access for c3) > (direct 
>table access for c1 and c1) then oracle will use FTS with cost based optimization.
>So, w/o a hint that is expected.
>
>But why it is not picking the index in my case i donot know.
>
>Also, can optimizer_index_cost_adj help? Its 100 now. Also that affects the whole DB, 
>so is there any way to set it for this particular query ?
>
>
>Thanks for all the inputs.
>
>
>Regards,
>B S Pradhan
>
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 Mike Spalinger wrote :
> >The difference is that the first query never has to go to the table (because you're 
> >selecting a constant 'x').  The second query has to go to the table to filter on c3.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >anu wrote:
> >>No.
> >>  The index should get used. The query result for query 2 is a subset of  rows 
> >> with ta.c1='val1' will get selected. Subset of query 1.
> >>  So there is no need for a full table scan. The index can be used in the 
> >> following way :
> >>  1) Use index ind1 to get rows with ta.c1='val1' (which is query 1). This can 
> >> definitely use an index.
> >>2) Further filter using ta.c3 = 'val2'
> >>  Now may be the index is not very selective and the optimizer is going in for a 
> >> full table scan. What is the cardinality like? It is strange that  RULE or index 
> >> hint is not taking it. Can you try a simple index(ta) hint or send your hint 
> >> syntax.  Can you try the hint on another table to make sure hint is working. I do 
> >> not know why hint should not work.
> >>  Good luck.
> >>
> >>"Daniel W. Fink" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>You answered your own question.
> >>
> >>ta.c3 is a nonindexed column, this means that the only way to
> >>satisfy the
> >>predicate is to perform a full table scan. Since this predicate
> >>condition forces
> >>a full table scan on ta, which will retrieve the ta.c1 column values
> >>at the same
> >>time, there is no need to use an index. In fact, an additional index
> >>access
> >>would decrease the query performance.
> >>
> >>Daniel Fink
> >>
> >>bhabani s pradhan wrote:
> >>
> >>  > Hi All,
> >>  >
> >>  > Merry Christmas to all
> >>  >
> >>  > I have this interesting problem..
> >>  >
> >>  > For this query index ind1 on (c1,c2) columns is getting used.
> >>  > SELECT 'x'
> >>  > FROM tab ta
> >>  > WHERE ta.c1='val1';
> >>  > (gives index ind1 range scan)
> >>  >
> >>  > But for
> >>  >
> >>  > SELECT 'x'
> >>  > FROM tab ta
> >>  > WHERE ta.c1='val1'
> >>  > AND ta.c3 = 'val2';
> >>  > (gives FTS)
> >>  > index ind1 is not being used. c3 is a nonindexed column.
> >>  >
> >>  > I have already tried index(ta ind1) , RULE hints.
> >>  >
> >>  > The table and the index are analyzed.
> >>  >
> >>  > What cud be the reason for that?
> >>  >
> >>  > Regards,
> >>  > B S Pradhan
> >>
> >>--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> >>--Author: Daniel W. Fink
> >>INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >>Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> >>San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
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> >>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> >>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >>
> >>!
> >>
> >>
> >>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now 
> >>
> >
> >
> >-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> >-- Author: Mike Spalinger
> >  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Mercadante, Thomas F]

Dick,

it's a beauty thing...

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 10:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Raj,

I needed a 12 pack adter this one, it's from PeopleSlop:

SELECT 0001560265,OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,
PID.INV_ITEM_ID,TMP.COST_ELEMENT,'04',0,0,0,0,0,0,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA
_COD
E,
PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED,OPL.PERCENT_COMP,' ',1,0,'  ','
',00 
FROM PS_BU_ITEMS_INV INV,PS_SF_PRDNID_HEADR PID,PS_CE_OP_LIST_COPY OPL,
PS_CE_OP_LIST_VW OPLIST,PS_SF_COMP_LIST CMP,PS_CE_ITEMVAR_TMP TMP 
WHERE INV.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND PID.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND OPLIST.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND CMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND TMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND TMP.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPL.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPLIST.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= PID.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= CMP.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= OPLIST.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND INV.INV_ITEM_ID= PID.INV_ITEM_ID 
AND ( OPL.OP_SEQUENCE= CMP.OP_SEQUENCE OR (CMP.OP_SEQUENCE = 0 AND
OPL.OP_SEQUENCE =  OPLIST.OP_SEQUENCE)) 
AND PID.PROD_STATUS BETWEEN   '30'  AND  '60'  
AND TMP.INV_ITEM_ID= CMP.COMPONENT_ID 
AND TMP.CONFIG_CODE= CMP.CONFIG_CODE 
AND CMP.SOURCE_CODE <> '5' 
AND CMP.NON_OWN_FLAG = 'N' 
AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 'X' FROM PS_CE_SCRAPCST_TMP TMP2 
   WHERE TMP2.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
   AND TMP2.BUSINESS_UNIT = OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT 
   AND TMP2.PRODUCTION_ID = OPL.PRODUCTION_ID 
   AND TMP2.OP_SEQUENCE = OPL.OP_SEQUENCE 
   AND TMP2.COST_ELEMENT= TMP.COST_ELEMENT) 
GROUP BY
OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,PID.INV_ITEM_ID,
TMP.COST_ELEMENT,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_CODE,PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,
OPL.PERCENT_COMP,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED 


Reply Separator
Author: "Jamadagni; Rajendra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/15/2002 5:33 AM

Funny ... that Cary mentioned it 

Some developers here think that by setting some magic instance parameters we
can make all RBO tuned code run well under CBO ... (I just bought a 6 pack
of Mylanta yesterday ...)

Raj
__
Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc.

QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art!

Reply Separator
Author: "Cary Millsap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/14/2002 10:34 AM

Hamid,

I'm sorry: Unless your SQL returns fewer than about 800,000 rows to the
calling application (or an aggregation of 800,000 rows), then the
statement "we have done all the necessary tuning on all the SQL queries"
is not yet true.

If your SQL does actually return about 800,000 rows, then it is time to
begin thinking about the mismatch between business processing
requirements and the logical structure of your data.

The answer to your problem is not in your instance parameters.


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com







RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS



Funny ... that Cary mentioned it 


Some developers here think that by setting some magic
instance
parameters we can make all RBO tuned code run well under CBO ... (I just
bought
a 6 pack of Mylanta yesterday ...)

Raj
__
Rajendra Jamadagni 
    MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect
that
of ESPN Inc. 
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an
art!


Reply
Separator
Author: "Cary Millsap"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/14/2002 10:34
AM


Hamid,


I'm sorry: Unless your SQL returns fewer than about 800,000
rows
to the
calling application (or an aggregation of 800,000 rows),
then
the
statement "we have done all the necessary tuning on
all
the SQL queries"
is not yet true.


If your SQL does actually return about 800,000 rows, then it
is
time to
begin thinking about the mismatch between business
processing
requirements and the logical structure of your data.


The answer to your problem is not in your instance
parameters.



Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com";
TARGET="_blank">http://www.hotsos.com




 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
Sa

RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Whittle Jerome Contr NCI]

Title: RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS






I've seen worse. My programmers don't know how to use NOT EXISTS even though I've explained it many times. And that's the least of my problems. Look at this mess:

   SELECT *

 FROM sar.pax_header_suspense_err_temp

    WHERE    manifest_type

  || manifesting_station

  || fiscal_year

  || manifest_serial_number NOT IN (

 SELECT    manifest_type

    || manifesting_station

    || fiscal_year

    || manifest_serial_number

   FROM manifest_serial_number_history)


Takes over an hour to run. I rewrote it as such:


SELECT *

  FROM sar.pax_header_suspense_err_temp t

 WHERE NOT EXISTS 

(SELECT 'X' 

 FROM manifest_serial_number_history h

 WHERE

 t.manifest_type = h.manifest_type and 

 t.manifesting_station = h.manifesting_station and 

 t.fiscal_year = h.fiscal_year and

   t.manifest_serial_number = h.manifest_serial_number )


Under a second.


Jerry Whittle

ACIFICS DBA

NCI Information Systems Inc.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

618-622-4145


-Original Message-

From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]


Raj,


    I needed a 12 pack adter this one, it's from PeopleSlop:


SELECT 0001560265,OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,

PID.INV_ITEM_ID,TMP.COST_ELEMENT,'04',0,0,0,0,0,0,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_COD

E,

PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED,OPL.PERCENT_COMP,' ',1,0,'  ','

',00 

FROM PS_BU_ITEMS_INV INV,PS_SF_PRDNID_HEADR PID,PS_CE_OP_LIST_COPY OPL,

PS_CE_OP_LIST_VW OPLIST,PS_SF_COMP_LIST CMP,PS_CE_ITEMVAR_TMP TMP 

WHERE INV.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 

AND PID.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 

AND OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 

AND OPLIST.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 

AND CMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 

AND TMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 

AND TMP.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 

AND OPL.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 

AND OPLIST.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 

AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= PID.PRODUCTION_ID 

AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= CMP.PRODUCTION_ID 

AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= OPLIST.PRODUCTION_ID 

AND INV.INV_ITEM_ID= PID.INV_ITEM_ID 

AND ( OPL.OP_SEQUENCE= CMP.OP_SEQUENCE OR (CMP.OP_SEQUENCE = 0 AND

OPL.OP_SEQUENCE =  OPLIST.OP_SEQUENCE)) 

AND PID.PROD_STATUS BETWEEN   '30'  AND  '60'  

AND TMP.INV_ITEM_ID= CMP.COMPONENT_ID 

AND TMP.CONFIG_CODE= CMP.CONFIG_CODE 

AND CMP.SOURCE_CODE <> '5' 

AND CMP.NON_OWN_FLAG = 'N' 

AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 'X' FROM PS_CE_SCRAPCST_TMP TMP2 

   WHERE TMP2.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 

   AND TMP2.BUSINESS_UNIT = OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT 

   AND TMP2.PRODUCTION_ID = OPL.PRODUCTION_ID 

   AND TMP2.OP_SEQUENCE = OPL.OP_SEQUENCE 

   AND TMP2.COST_ELEMENT= TMP.COST_ELEMENT) 

GROUP BY OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,PID.INV_ITEM_ID,

TMP.COST_ELEMENT,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_CODE,PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,

OPL.PERCENT_COMP,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED 

RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Jared . Still]

Jerry,

I suspect that the improvments are more likely due to your
rewriting the WHERE clause rather than the use of NOT EXISTS.

Especially if the database were 9i, where NOT IN actually
seems get a better execution path than NOT EXISTS.

That original WHERE clause is really a piece of work.

Jared





"Whittle Jerome Contr NCI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 11/15/2002 08:21 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
        Subject:RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS


I've seen worse. My programmers don't know how to use NOT EXISTS even 
though I've explained it many times. And that's the least of my problems. 
Look at this mess:
   SELECT * 
 FROM sar.pax_header_suspense_err_temp 
WHEREmanifest_type 
  || manifesting_station 
  || fiscal_year 
  || manifest_serial_number NOT IN ( 
 SELECTmanifest_type 
|| manifesting_station 
|| fiscal_year 
|| manifest_serial_number 
   FROM manifest_serial_number_history) 
Takes over an hour to run. I rewrote it as such: 
SELECT * 
  FROM sar.pax_header_suspense_err_temp t 
 WHERE NOT EXISTS 
(SELECT 'X' 
 FROM manifest_serial_number_history h 
 WHERE 
 t.manifest_type = h.manifest_type and 
 t.manifesting_station = h.manifesting_station and 
 t.fiscal_year = h.fiscal_year and 
   t.manifest_serial_number = h.manifest_serial_number ) 
Under a second. 
Jerry Whittle 
ACIFICS DBA 
NCI Information Systems Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
618-622-4145 
-Original Message- 
Raj, 
I needed a 12 pack adter this one, it's from PeopleSlop: 
SELECT 0001560265,OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE, 
PID.INV_ITEM_ID,TMP.COST_ELEMENT,'04',0,0,0,0,0,0,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_COD 
E, 
PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED,OPL.PERCENT_COMP,' ',1,0,' ',' 
',00 
FROM PS_BU_ITEMS_INV INV,PS_SF_PRDNID_HEADR PID,PS_CE_OP_LIST_COPY OPL, 
PS_CE_OP_LIST_VW OPLIST,PS_SF_COMP_LIST CMP,PS_CE_ITEMVAR_TMP TMP 
WHERE INV.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND PID.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND OPLIST.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND CMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND TMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND TMP.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPL.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPLIST.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= PID.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= CMP.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= OPLIST.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND INV.INV_ITEM_ID= PID.INV_ITEM_ID 
AND ( OPL.OP_SEQUENCE= CMP.OP_SEQUENCE OR (CMP.OP_SEQUENCE = 0 AND 
OPL.OP_SEQUENCE =  OPLIST.OP_SEQUENCE)) 
AND PID.PROD_STATUS BETWEEN   '30'  AND  '60' 
AND TMP.INV_ITEM_ID= CMP.COMPONENT_ID 
AND TMP.CONFIG_CODE= CMP.CONFIG_CODE 
AND CMP.SOURCE_CODE <> '5' 
AND CMP.NON_OWN_FLAG = 'N' 
AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 'X' FROM PS_CE_SCRAPCST_TMP TMP2 
   WHERE TMP2.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
   AND TMP2.BUSINESS_UNIT = OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT 
   AND TMP2.PRODUCTION_ID = OPL.PRODUCTION_ID 
   AND TMP2.OP_SEQUENCE = OPL.OP_SEQUENCE 
   AND TMP2.COST_ELEMENT= TMP.COST_ELEMENT) 
GROUP BY 
OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,PID.INV_ITEM_ID, 
TMP.COST_ELEMENT,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_CODE,PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE, 
OPL.PERCENT_COMP,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED 



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RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Post, Ethan]

Hold the press.  NOT IN better than NOT EXISTS?  Is this theory or fact?  If
so is there any supporting evidence out there?  This is the first I have
heard of this.

Thanks!

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jerry,

I suspect that the improvments are more likely due to your
rewriting the WHERE clause rather than the use of NOT EXISTS.

Especially if the database were 9i, where NOT IN actually
seems get a better execution path than NOT EXISTS.

That original WHERE clause is really a piece of work.

Jared



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Author: Post, Ethan
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Re: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Greg Moore]

> Hold the press.  NOT IN better than NOT EXISTS?
> If so is there any supporting evidence out there?

I think you're joking, but if not there's a nice comparison chart of several
tests in Harrison, p. 268.

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Author: Greg Moore
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RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Jared . Still]

Ethan,

A NOT EXISTS can be very expensive if returning large numbers
of rows from the driving table.  It's a correlated subquery as 
Stephane F. pointed out in another post.

Jared







"Post, Ethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 11/15/2002 10:32 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
        Subject:RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS


Hold the press.  NOT IN better than NOT EXISTS?  Is this theory or fact? 
If
so is there any supporting evidence out there?  This is the first I have
heard of this.

Thanks!

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jerry,

I suspect that the improvments are more likely due to your
rewriting the WHERE clause rather than the use of NOT EXISTS.

Especially if the database were 9i, where NOT IN actually
seems get a better execution path than NOT EXISTS.

That original WHERE clause is really a piece of work.

Jared



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Author: Post, Ethan
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



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RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Connor McDonald]

In some cases, NOT IN is better than NOT EXISTS.  In
other cases, the opposite is true.

Moral: It never pays to discount an option out of hand
- eg, NOT IN often works very very nicely for
uncorrelated subqueries

hth
connor

 --- "Post, Ethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hold
the press.  NOT IN better than NOT EXISTS?  Is
> this theory or fact?  If
> so is there any supporting evidence out there?  This
> is the first I have
> heard of this.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:35 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> I suspect that the improvments are more likely due
> to your
> rewriting the WHERE clause rather than the use of
> NOT EXISTS.
> 
> Especially if the database were 9i, where NOT IN
> actually
> seems get a better execution path than NOT EXISTS.
> 
> That original WHERE clause is really a piece of
> work.
> 
> Jared
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Post, Ethan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
-
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
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> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing). 

=
Connor McDonald
http://www.oracledba.co.uk
http://www.oaktable.net

"GIVE a man a fish and he will eat for a day. But TEACH him how to fish, and...he will 
sit in a boat and drink beer all day"

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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RE: Re[2]:RE: Rant

[Freeman, Robert]

>> Since a couple weeks ago, when a "DBA" deleted the filesystem containing
>> the system tablespace datafile?

Fouled SA reasoning from what I can see. DBA's have enough power that they
can wipe out their database (and many others with it) regardless if they
have root priv's or not. So he wiped out the FS... next time he might just
do an rm -r * on the FS. If he's a member of the DBA group and the FS is
setup as Oracle recommends... well he might as well have dropped the file
system. 

It's a cost/benefit ratio thing to me there is more benefit in the DBA
having root privs than not as long as they have a **certain amount of admin
experience** and there is a clear distinction of what he does, and does not,
do.


RF

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author
Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press - Oct 2002)
Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press)
Mastering Oracle8i  (Sybex)

Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck?
Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I
guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and 
your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' 
crazy.



-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 5:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


>> Yeah?  And there's a good reason we SAs keep root privileges away
>> from you DBAs.  :-))

> Since when?

Since a couple weeks ago, when a "DBA" deleted the filesystem containing
the system tablespace datafile?

I was just returning some friendly stabs from a DBA to an SA -- but I
could provide lots of examples.  :)

Gary Chambers

//-
// Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix
// 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886
// 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager)
// Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft
//-




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Author: Gary Chambers
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Re: Re[2]:RE: Rant

[Rachel Carmichael]

mine have too... but as a generic rule, I'd wait until the backup was
done, unless I trusted my SA 


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Rachel,
> 
> You can say that if you want, I trust my SA's.  And that they've
> earned the
> HARD way.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   7/22/2002 11:15 AM
> 
> um, I'd schedule step 6 AFTER the backup finishes... I've seen idiot
> SA's who start the backup then shutdown the machine or kill the
> process
> before it completes.
> 
> 
> :)
> 
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I have, no fun.  But at least your only fooling around with one
> > tablespace
> > and/or file vs. the entire database.  The method is rather simple:
> > 
> > 1) The tablespace/datafile are already offline, SMON does this
> > for you
> > unless it's SYSTEM in which case your not doing this in the first
> > place.
> > 
> > 2) Get your SA to restore the datafiles(s) from tape back to
> > where they
> > belong.
> > 
> > 3) startup SQL*Plus as internal.
> > 
> > 4) Alter database recover tablespace/datafile as you normally
> > would.
> > 
> > 5) Alter tablespace/datafile online.
> > 
> > 6) Miller time.  (After the SA schedules/starts a hot backup of
> > the entire
> > DB).
> > 
> > Want to try one?  Take a DB that's in archive log mode & either in
> > development
> > or test.  Use production ONLY if your suicidal.  Take the datafile
> or
> > tablespace
> > offline for a little while.  Now try to bring it back online.  Then
> > go to step 4
> > above.
> > 
> > Dick Goulet
> > 
> > Reply Separator
> > Author: "Vergara; Michael (TEM)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date:   7/22/2002 8:13 AM
> > 
> > I read your rant, and I agree with you.  But I do have
> > one little itsy bitsy question...
> > 
> > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in
> > > backup mode.  Simple enough, right?  Not one of them
> > > got it right.  Not even close.  Didn't have clue as to
> > > what I was talking about.  Fair enough, you don't
> > > know.  Well how about a simple recovery scenario.  I
> > > asked every candidate how they would do an online
> > > recover of a datafile while the database was still in
> > > use.  No ideas.  Not even close.
> > 
> > How DO you do an online recovery of a datafile while the
> > database is still in use?  I've had to do recoveries before,
> > but never this scenario.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM)
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
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> > also send the HELP command for other information (like
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> > -- 
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> > also send the HELP command for other information (like
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RE: RE: RE: historical data

[Christopher Spence]

Oh, yes agreed 110%.

But on another note, import/export is not fast.  That is the only reason I
mention these other options.
But I agree 100%.  The other difficulty is if you want to import that data
into a different format, exports do not help much as you have to import
(Perhaps a big table) then convert it.


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:59 PM
To: Christopher Spence; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Chris,

Humm, did not think that was clear, but!!  We started using export to
extract data from our operational data store back in 92 with Oracle Version
5 to
tape.  These files, copied now to CD's are still usable with Oracle 8i.
That's
10 years and no problems.  If I can depend on something with Oracle, they
maintain a backwards compatibility with the import tool that I haven't found
the
end of yet.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/22/2001 2:20 PM

I am not sure what you are saying here, but ok sure.


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:31 PM
To: Christopher Spence; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Chris,

I've been exporting data in a similar way as you since V5.  The 8i
version
of import still reads them without trouble.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/22/2001 7:13 AM

Take a look at Thomas's Kytes utility "Data Unloadder" on his website.

Also look at Oriole's PDQ OUT.  Both products will avoid the need to
recreate the wheel.
Also, toad can do this.


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 6:17 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


We have to role off partitions of data every week and I am writing a script
to 
write the data to comma separated files using utl_file. What I was wondering
is
does anyone have an alternative that is better? I thought about using export
but
thought it wouldn't be fun trying to import an export file into the latest
version
of Oracle 10 years down the road. 

Thanks, Dave
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RE: RE: RE: salary advise

[Mohan, Ross]

Title: RE: RE: RE: salary advise





Amen, but you may get flamed hard for this from the Neo-zealotry!


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 1:47 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re:RE: RE: salary advise



Well at least here in the US, our women are smart enough to stay out of the
presidential meat grinder.  But given the last twenty years of bone heads we've
elected, from RayGun to Bush Jr., I think I'll vote for a women even if she just
declares.  I think we've had enough of guys who have their heads so far up in
the clouds they need "fortune tellers" to tell them when to breath, to those who
don't have the guts to finish what they started, to guys who can't keep their
brains in their pants, to this weirdo who wants to turn the government over to
the NRA, the Baptist Convention and the oil companies.  Sheesh what a mess! 
Only in America!!


Dick Goulet



Reply Separator
Author: lerobe - Lee Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/30/2001 9:10 AM


and the UK.but she lasted bloody ages. G !!! 


> Lee Robertson
> Acxiom
> Tel:  0191 525 7344
> Fax:  0191 525 7007
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 



-Original Message-
Sent: 30 January 2001 16:26
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Canada had a woman prime minister as well.  She did
not last long but she was there.


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Free country..largest democracy in the world..had a
woman prime minister..i grew up there..great people...


My 2 cents!!


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> u-huh.. I wanted to add.. and women are respected
> like men alike..
> 
> Also India is different as I have not seen _ANY_
> foreign nationals work in
> India (except at US embassy etc.).. this can be due
> to reasons:
> 
> 1. The pay is no where near Iraq.. If you make
> $20K/year  in India.. you
> are perhaps in the richest crowd.. the cost of
> living is much cheaper so it
> works great..
> 2. India has a huge surplus of brain power ...
> willing to export the brains
> worldwide.. why would we import ?
> 
> -regards, bruce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]@fatcity.com on 01/29/2001
> 09:15:57 AM
> 
> Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Sent by:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> cc:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record.. India and Iraq are worlds apart..
> women work in all
> fields.. doctors, engineers.. etc.. unlike what I am
> reading about Iraq..
> Just my personal opnion..
> Bruce Taneja, made and bred in India.. :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Weaver, Walt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>@fatcity.com on
> 01/26/2001 10:25:22 PM
> 
> Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Sent by:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> cc:
> 
> 
> Hey, you Arab guys better stay away from the U.S. 
> :>)
> 
> I live with three females (one wife, two daughters)
> and they definitely
> rule
> the roost.
> 
> Fortunately for me, I still have my cojones.
> 
> BUT, I tread softly, and wear a veil whenever I
> venture into the Female
> Area, otherwise known as the Whole House.
> 
> Here in the U.S., the veil is also known as The Cup.
> 
> Woo-hooh! I snow ski, fly fish, read books, and just
> enjoy life with my
> daughters every day. Would I be allowed to do this
> in Bahrain?
> 
> There's a good chance that my 11-year-old daughter
> will be flying F-22's in
> 10 years. She can already fly a Piper Tomahawk with
> no problem.
> 
> No wonder everyone's immigrating to the US. Not too
> many people immigrating
> to India or Iraq, eh?
> 
> :>)
> 
> --Walt Weaver
>   Bozeman, Montana, USA
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 1/26/2001 3:45 PM
> 
> I have previous officemates who are now in Dubai.
> They say...the women there is assumed not to be
> professionally
> good as men. An Arab interviewer went to my town to
> interview
>  some prospective employees and he was surprised
> that
> the women in my country are also professionally
> working like men.
> So if you are a woman they already expect you not to
> succeed
> in almost anything.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >
> >  Yes Ratchel, your friend is right. I visited
> Baharain briefly, it
> appears to
> > be the case that they t

Re: CORRECTION RE: RE: Re: SQL help needed

[Guido Konsolke]

Hi Stephane,

I commiserate with you 8-)

Regards,
Guido

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17.09.2003  10.44 Uhr >>>

create viex xdual
as select rownum ID
from sys.col$;

Cannot have a column named rownum ... Going to be a difficult day. And we are only 
half-week.

Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net 
-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Guido Konsolke
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Re: Re: RE: image storage confusion ?? --> UUDECODE

[oraora oraora]

Thanx Chao.
Still under confusion , whether to store 20,000,000 images of 5k 
each either in
-oracle 8.1.6 on win2k ( BLOB or BFILE ) 
OR
-   just on plain linux file system -
OR
- any file server like NetApp on linux ---

which will be better ?
how do people usually handle data of such volume ?
plz let me know how it is done normally.

TIA.
Jp.


On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 chao_ping wrote :
>oraora  oraora,
>   For blob, it is ok, since it is all in the database, while for 
>bfile, you actually store them in filesystem, so you have to 
>backup those files indivudually.
>
>
>
>
>
>Regards
>zhu chao
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>www.happyit.net
>www.cnoug.org(Chinese Oracle User Group)
>
>=== 2002-12-09 17:23:00 ,you wrote£º===
>
> >Guys,
> >
> >Suppose I store the images (~100G)in DB ( either as BLOB or 
>BFILE
> >).
> >I want to have a standby DB for this Prod. DB.
> >Will there be any problem ? any known issues ?
> >what are the things to be taken care of ???
> >
> >Kindly let me know Guys.
> >
> >TIA.
> >Jp.
> >
> >
> >On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 Connor McDonald wrote :
> >>As Cary as mentioned, there's some new goodies in v9.
> >>
> >>In our case, the controlling of attachments etc is
> >>done before processing into the db.  I can't remember
> >>the specifics (read: I'm no longer at that site) but
> >>we found some shareware (mimencode? + a few other
> >>little things) we separated encoded emails into
> >>separate files which then got processed into separate
> >>lobs.
> >>
> >>Cheers
> >>Connor
> >>
> >>  --- "MacGregor, Ian A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>wrote: > Were doing the same thing with mail between
> >> > collaborators on one of our physics projects.  But
> >> > the volume is small, just unDer 250,000 so far.  Did
> >> > the mail ou were saving contain attachments, and if
> >> > so did you write any code to break off the
> >> > attachment uudecode it and place it in a blob?  If
> >> > so, I am keenly interested in that code.
> >> >
> >> > Is there a publicly available package to do uuencode
> >> > and uudecode?
> >> >
> >> > Ian MacGregor
> >> > Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:44 AM
> >> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Exactly.
> >> >
> >> > We had a system that used to drag emails (from qmail
> >> > so each mail was a file) into clobs in the database.
> >> >
> >> > After a year or so we had about 15 million emails in
> >> > the database - no problems at all.
> >> >
> >> > Then one day the some idiot (aka me) put a new
> >> > version
> >> > of the program in which successfully loaded the clob
> >> > but (to cut a long story short) started replicating
> >> > the email files left, right and centre...It took
> >> > literally days to clean up millions of (zero byte
> >> > size) files...after which point that file system
> >> > needed to be rebuilt anyway, the directory structure
> >> > was in such a mess
> >> >
> >> > Cheers
> >> > Connor
> >> >
> >> >  --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Arup,
> >> > >
> >> > > What Connor may have been referring to is the
> >> > > inefficiency
> >> > > of managing 20 million files in a filesystem.
> >> > >
> >> > > That's a lot of inodes ( assuming unix ).  It's a
> >> > > bit much
> >> > > for a filesystem to deal with.
> >> > >
> >> > > Jared
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > "Arup Nanda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > >  12/03/2002 07:14 AM
> >> > >  Please respond to ORACLE-L
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > To: Multiple recipients of list
> >> > ORACLE-L
> >> > > <[EMAIL PROTECT

Re: Re: Re: RE: image storage confusion ?? --> UUDECODE

[Yechiel Adar]

On NTFS there is an allocation unit and the Os gives space in multiple of
allocations units which is 4k or 8k.
So if you use bfile you will waste 3k for each file, increasing your disk
space by 60%.

I am not sure about the size of the allocation unit.
Please verify this with your sysadmin.

Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:03 AM


> Thanx Chao.
> Still under confusion , whether to store 20,000,000 images of 5k
> each either in
> -oracle 8.1.6 on win2k ( BLOB or BFILE ) 
> OR
> -   just on plain linux file system -
> OR
> - any file server like NetApp on linux ---
>
> which will be better ?
> how do people usually handle data of such volume ?
> plz let me know how it is done normally.
>
> TIA.
> Jp.
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 chao_ping wrote :
> >oraora  oraora,
> > For blob, it is ok, since it is all in the database, while for
> >bfile, you actually store them in filesystem, so you have to
> >backup those files indivudually.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Regards
> >zhu chao
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >www.happyit.net
> >www.cnoug.org(Chinese Oracle User Group)
> >
> >=== 2002-12-09 17:23:00 ,you wrote£º===
> >
> > >Guys,
> > >
> > >Suppose I store the images (~100G)in DB ( either as BLOB or
> >BFILE
> > >).
> > >I want to have a standby DB for this Prod. DB.
> > >Will there be any problem ? any known issues ?
> > >what are the things to be taken care of ???
> > >
> > >Kindly let me know Guys.
> > >
> > >TIA.
> > >Jp.
> > >
> > >
> > >On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 Connor McDonald wrote :
> > >>As Cary as mentioned, there's some new goodies in v9.
> > >>
> > >>In our case, the controlling of attachments etc is
> > >>done before processing into the db.  I can't remember
> > >>the specifics (read: I'm no longer at that site) but
> > >>we found some shareware (mimencode? + a few other
> > >>little things) we separated encoded emails into
> > >>separate files which then got processed into separate
> > >>lobs.
> > >>
> > >>Cheers
> > >>Connor
> > >>
> > >>  --- "MacGregor, Ian A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>wrote: > Were doing the same thing with mail between
> > >> > collaborators on one of our physics projects.  But
> > >> > the volume is small, just unDer 250,000 so far.  Did
> > >> > the mail ou were saving contain attachments, and if
> > >> > so did you write any code to break off the
> > >> > attachment uudecode it and place it in a blob?  If
> > >> > so, I am keenly interested in that code.
> > >> >
> > >> > Is there a publicly available package to do uuencode
> > >> > and uudecode?
> > >> >
> > >> > Ian MacGregor
> > >> > Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
> > >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> >
> > >> > -Original Message-
> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:44 AM
> > >> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Exactly.
> > >> >
> > >> > We had a system that used to drag emails (from qmail
> > >> > so each mail was a file) into clobs in the database.
> > >> >
> > >> > After a year or so we had about 15 million emails in
> > >> > the database - no problems at all.
> > >> >
> > >> > Then one day the some idiot (aka me) put a new
> > >> > version
> > >> > of the program in which successfully loaded the clob
> > >> > but (to cut a long story short) started replicating
> > >> > the email files left, right and centre...It took
> > >> > literally days to clean up millions of (zero byte
> > >> > size) files...after which point that file system
> > >> > needed to be rebuilt anyway, the directory structure
> > >> > was in such a mess
> > >> >
> > >> > Cheers
> > >> > Connor
> > >> >
> > >> >  --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Arup,
> > >> > >
> >

Re: Re: RE: Re: Stop using SYS, SYSTEM?

[Nuno Pinto do Souto]

> Arup Nanda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm not sure that's what the OP wanted. He wanted to know if stopping
> use of
> SYS and SYSTEM on a regular basis will be acceptable, not "disable"
> them. It
> sure is.
> Besides, how does one disable the account? Lock it? SYSTEM can be
> locked but
> SYS can't be; hence the whole concept of disabling does not make
> sense.


I hear what you're saying, but define "acceptable".  And how do you stop 
someone from using a given userid other than disabling it?  How do you 
disable is of course dependent on what the software maker provides you.

In the case of SYS, probably change passwords is the only way.
In the case of SYSTEM I think it can be disabled, although I'm not
sure of the impact of that on tools that may need it.  I'd rather use the 
password method, that way all I need do to "enable" it is change
the password again.


> I feel the auditors merely wanted the OP to stop using SYS and SYSTEM
> on a
> regular basis in operations that require a DBA access - such as full
> exports
> and selecting from disctionary tables. IMHO this is a very valid
> advisory
> and not difficult to follow.


Stopping someone from using a given set of accounts achieves preciously 
nothing in terms of security (or auditing) IF the functionality of those accounts 
is then replicated to other accounts.


Fact is a DBA needs to be able to exp/imp (debatable, but let's ignore that).  
And manage rights.  And manage space.  And manage allocations,
And monitor the system.  And a myriad of other tasks immaterial to the 
point I'm trying to make.


Those are conveniently provided for by Oracle on a default install using
the SYSTEM account.  This is what it is for, this is the work of a DBA,
this is WHY that account has been given those access rights.  SYS is
debatable and Oracle may now want to discourage people from using
it.  Fair enough.  But SYSTEM is the DBA account par excellence,
the same that root is also a sysadmin account.


Now you may take away the accounts, but you MUST provide the
functionality (or a subset) SOMEHOW, or else the DBA (or the sysadmin) 
can NOT do his/her work.


If you provide the function through another account, then EFFECTIVELY,
all you have achievced is change the name of the account that does that
function.  Security wise, you are back exactly where you started!
And all you have achieved is create a whole lot of risks for the next
person that comes along and installs some software.


The auditors should be defining a set of functions that must be audited
and to what level, and the DBA (and Oracle!) should look at how to 
implement those.  If they are executed by logonid  A, B or MXYZPTLK
is essentially just spurious information (other than of course knowing
WHO has the password for that ID!).  Does Oracle provide a facility
to properly audit all this?  IMHO, far from it.  But it's getting better.


I don't want to know that SYSTEM or SOUTON with a subset
of its rights stuffed up my database or exported my main accounts
and clients tables.  What I want to know is WHY, WHEN, HOW and 
by WHOM.  So that I can reconstruct the events, and hopefully prevent 
the problem from ever happening again.


Changing the login names DBAs use doesn't cut it for this, other than 
look good in "auditor's reports". If there is one thing that the military are 
good at (!) is in defining precisely what security and auditing consists
of.  

Have a look at a secure military installation and you'll find it's not about 
stopping people from using this or that, it's about KNOWING who
did what, how and when.

Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Re: RE: Re: Stop using SYS, SYSTEM?

[Cupp Michael E Contr Det 1 AFRL/WSI]

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:49 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


>Stopping someone from using a given set of accounts achieves preciously 
>nothing in terms of security (or auditing) IF the functionality of those >accounts 
>is then replicated to other accounts.


Not if someone (I.e. an 'operator') is only using a portion of the access (COMPLETE) 
that is given to sys and/or system.


>Fact is a DBA needs to be able to exp/imp (debatable, but let's ignore >that).  
>And manage rights.  And manage space.  And manage allocations,
>And monitor the system.  And a myriad of other tasks immaterial to the 
>point I'm trying to make.

But a user account for Joe DBA and another user account for Jane DBA, etc, etc will 
provide accountability and tracability, vs a 'public' account does not.


Just my $0.02
-- 
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Author: Cupp Michael E Contr Det 1 AFRL/WSI
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RE: Re: RE: Re: Stop using SYS, SYSTEM?

[Jacques Kilchoer]

> -Original Message-
> Nuno Pinto do Souto
> 
> I don't want to know that SYSTEM or SOUTON with a subset
> of its rights stuffed up my database or exported my main accounts
> and clients tables.  What I want to know is WHY, WHEN, HOW and 
> by WHOM.

What I was saying is that having a different username for each DBA helps you identify 
the WHOM. Of course a hacker could always cut knock the DBA unconscious and prop up 
his head to fool an eye retina scan, à la James Bond, but by that argument any 
username or IP address or whatever else you use is meaningless.
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Re: Re: RE: Re: Stop using SYS, SYSTEM?

[Nuno Souto]

Facetious, but correct. What you need
is auditing. Not clipping userids.
Achieves nothing.

Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 

> What I was saying is that having a different username for each DBA helps you 
> identify the WHOM. Of course a hacker
could always cut knock the DBA unconscious and prop up his head to fool an eye retina 
scan, à la James Bond, but by that
argument any username or IP address or whatever else you use is meaningless.
> -- 

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Author: Nuno Souto
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RE: RE: RE: RE: OT: Rachel in Vietnam

[Mohan, Ross]

Title: RE: RE: RE: RE: OT: Rachel in Vietnam





BUFF bomb. That sounds cool. Will it work on developers?


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:18 PM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re:RE: RE: RE: OT: Rachel in Vietnam



Ross,


    Makes sense, Nam was BUG heaven, unless they got caught in the path of a
BUFF bomb run.  Nothing survived that. :-)


Dick Goulet


Reply Separator
Subject:    RE: RE: RE: OT: Rachel in Vietnam
Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2001 8:02 AM


Dick , 


Didn't you know? Rachel WAS in Nam. But she 
never talks about it. I think it had to do
with the bugs. 


Just a thought. 


Ross


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 8:32 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Rachel,


    If you were given one, as I was in Nam, you'd not know the difference. 
Looks like, & tastes like a crunch bar for the most part, except for the
logo on
top.  It just crunches better.


Dick Goulet


Reply Separator
Author: "Rachel Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2001 4:10 PM


but Moom, the icky bugs TOUCHED the chocolate!   :)




>From: Kimberly Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: RE: OT: Oracle *Chocolate* Monitoring Tools/Friday Recipe
>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:45:29 -0800
>
>You could just lick the chocolate off.
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 10:11 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> I have a phobia about bugs...
>
>what a waste of perfectly good chocolate
>
>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re:RE: OT: Oracle *Chocolate* Monitoring Tools/Friday Recipe
> >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:11:20 -0800
> >
> >OK you chocaholics try this on for size:
> >
> >  Reuters Monday, March 19, 2001
> >
> >Chocolate-Coated Bugs Are Latest Treat
> >
> >LONDON (Reuters) - Ants, crickets and scorpions, baked, coated
> >in chocolate and promoted as a high-protein snack, are proving
> >popular among peckish Londoners.
> >
> >Designer Todd Dalton, who trained as a chef in Louisiana and
> >acquired a taste for cooked insects on his travels in Asia and
> >central America, says he has sold 5,000 chocolate-coated bugs
> >since he began marketing them in December.
> >
> >"They are very high in protein and very low in fat. They have a
> >higher percentage of protein than any meat or fish that we
> >commonly eat," he told Reuters.
> >
> >The creepy-crawly chocs sell for between three and 3.50 pounds
> >($4.30-$5.00) at upmarket London stores such as Selfridges and
> >the Conran Shop and will soon be appearingin shops in Munich
> >and Zurich.
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >--
> >Author:
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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>_
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Rachel Carmichael
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>Au

RE: RE: final frontier / RE: RE: RE: OT NT2K vs Unix.

[Mohan, Ross]

Title: RE: RE: final frontier / RE: RE: RE: OT  NT2K vs Unix.





I think Larry sent a message to the list about it. ;-)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 4:17 PM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re:RE: final frontier / RE: RE: RE: OT NT2K vs Unix.



Who's the manufacturer?  will it run from a trolling motor's 12 volt battery?? 
Lord, maybe I can combine work and fishing after all!!!  Hooray, I'll move my
office to Lake Sunapee during the summer!


Dick Goulet


Reply Separator____
Subject:    RE: final frontier / RE: RE: RE: OT  NT2K vs Unix.
Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/6/2001 12:24 PM


I love it. 


You WILL be assimilated.


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 2:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Ross & Dick,


The lead network field engineer at this campus looks a bit
like "Mr. Spock" on Star Trek. He has a wearable PC. It was
totally cost-justified (hands free operations). It is really
a trip seeing him go in/out of the wiring closets with all 
the stuff on. freaks out the users big time. :)


ep


On 6 Feb 2001, at 9:56, Mohan, Ross wrote:


Date sent:  Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:56:30 -0800
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> It exists!
> 
> I even see "anti RF" clothing for sale!
> 
> 
> Amazing world.
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 12:49 PM
> To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hey, I'm waiting for the wearable computer with the wireless link into the
> network.  Especially if it comes with voice command.  


...



-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Eric D. Pierce
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RE: final frontier / RE: RE: RE: OT  NT2K vs Unix.




I love it. 



You WILL be assimilated.



-Original Message-
From: Eric D. Pierce [
HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 2:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: OT: final frontier / RE: RE: RE: OT NT2K vs
Unix.




Ross & Dick,



The lead network field engineer at this campus looks a
bit
like "Mr. Spock" on Star Trek. He has a wearable PC.
It was
totally cost-justified (hands free operations). It is
really
a trip seeing him go in/out of the wiring closets with all

the stuff on. freaks out the users big time. :)



ep



On 6 Feb 2001, at 9:56, Mohan, Ross wrote:



Date sent: 
    Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:56:30
-0800

SIZE=2>To:   &nbs
p;     Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



> It exists!
> 
> I even see "anti RF" clothing for sale!
> 
> 
> Amazing world.
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 12:49 PM
> To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hey, I'm waiting for the wearable computer with the
wireless link into the
> network.  Especially if it comes with voice
command.  



...




-- 
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HREF="http://www.orafaq.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.orafaq.com
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RE: RE: STOMACH WRENCHINGLY OFFTOPIC RE: RE: RE: OT NT2K vs

[Boivin, Patrice J]

I think I will add stomach to my e-mail exclude list.

: )

Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)



-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:11 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Re:RE: STOMACH WRENCHINGLY OFFTOPIC RE: RE: RE: OT
NT2K vs 

Okay, Someone pass the 40 ft pole!!

Reply Separator
Author: "Kevin Kostyszyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/6/2001 1:56 PM

    RE: RE: RE: OT NT2K vs Unix.i wasn't gonna say it, I knew someone
would and
it wasn't me...whoo h
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Mohan, Ross
  Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 4:28 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject: STOMACH WRENCHINGLY OFFTOPIC RE: RE: RE: OT NT2K vs Unix.


  You can do ALOT of things in bed with your palm.

  ( nyuk nyuk nyuk )
-Original Message-
From: Kevin Kostyszyn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
        Subject: RE: RE: RE: OT NT2K vs Unix.


NO WAY  You can do stuff to your DB from bed with a Palm???
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Richard
Ji
  Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 2:57 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
          Subject: RE: RE: RE: OT NT2K vs Unix.


  How about the DBA tool that runs on a Palm VII, I forgot what
is it
called.  No voice command but at least you don't have to get out of
the bed.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Mohan,
Ross
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 12:57 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: RE: RE: OT NT2K vs Unix.


It exists!

I even see "anti RF" clothing for sale!



Amazing world.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 12:49 PM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re:RE: RE: OT NT2K vs Unix.



Hey, I'm waiting for the wearable computer with the wireless
link
into the
network.  Especially if it comes with voice command.  That
way when
a "middle of
the night" problem occurs all I'll have to do is roll over,
fix the
problem, and
then fall back asleep.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Subject:RE: RE: OT  NT2K vs Unix.
Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/6/2001 6:26 AM

Pithy as hell and twice as true.

I agree
totally..agents...interfacesgraphicsAI...

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 8:31 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



The future of computers, look at the games of today.




 Brian L. Anderson
 Flunky/SA/DBA
 Darton College
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


> -Original Message-

> are some that I can think of).  Heck, I wouldn't be
surprised
> if the code
> for some database query optimizers trace back to some
gaming
> AI code.   :)
>
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Re[2]:RE: final frontier / RE: RE: RE: OT NT2K vs Unix.

[dgoulet]

Well, Since we've gone this far down the gutter, you all have a good laugh. 
BTW: those of you unfamiliar with Star Trek have my pity.

--


BRAIN SYSTEM: Attention. Alert registered.

CENTRAL: Alert? Number One, report!

NUMBER ONE: Sir! We're picking up a loud beeping sound.

CENTRAL: Beeping? We were just asleep!

NUMBER ONE: Yes sir. Ears report it's very persistent

CENTRAL: Goodness, are we being tortured? 
NUMBER ONE: Sir, Eyes are
functional and request instruction. 

CENTRAL: Tell them to open up and try
to find out what is going on. 

NUMBER ONE: Scope! Okay, I see darkness...
darkness... 

CENTRAL: Well of course. Keep looking. 

NUMBER ONE: Sir, urgent report from Stomach on the horn, do you want to take it?


CENTRAL: Stomach, what's going on? 

STOMACH: Sir, we've taken a hit, it...it looks bad, sir. 

CENTRAL: Get hold of yourself, man!

STOMACH: Yessir. It looks like a burrito, sir. It exploded at about 1900
hours and we've been out of action ever since. I don't...I don't know if she can
take much more, Captain. 

CENTRAL: Stomach! Now you listen to me, son. We're all counting on you up here.
Don't give up now. Remember the chili of '94? We made it through that, we can
make it through anything.

STOMACH: Yessir. You can count on me, sir. 

CENTRAL: Good man. 

NUMBER ONE: Sir, I've got a visual on the clock! 

CENTRAL: Tell me, Number One. 

NUMBER ONE: Oh my God, sir. It's horrible. 

CENTRAL: Dammit sailor, get a grip on
yourself! 

NUMBER ONE: It's... It's three thirty, sir. In the morning.

CENTRAL: In the morning? Not again. I thought...I thought that we'd had
the worst of it yesterday. 

SYSTEM: Sixty seconds to consciousness.

CENTRAL: This is madness. Do you know what's going to happen if we go
conscious now, this early? 

NUMBER ONE: Work, sir? 

CENTRAL: That's right, Number One. It'll be work, all right. I don't...don't
know if I can live through that hell again. 

SYSTEM: Fifty seconds to consciousness. 

NUMBER ONE: Sir? Do you have orders? 

CENTRAL: Hmmm? 

NUMBER ONE: Orders, sir. Do you have orders for us? 

CENTRAL: Orders? Orders, Number One? Damn right there are orders! Let's get
ourselves moving. 

NUMBER ONE: Aye aye, sir!

SYSTEM: Forty seconds to consciousness. 

CENTRAL: Shut that damn thing off, I'm trying to think. Get our remote
stations on line. I want a Search and Acquire on anything that feels like a
pager. Tell them to MOVE.
Bladder! 

BLADDER: Yes sir? 

CENTRAL: How are you holding? 

BLADDER: All systems are flush and ready, sir. We can go another three
hours, easy.

CENTRAL: Very well, Bladder. Number One, get me Nose on the horn. 

NOSE: Sir, Nose reporting, sir! 

CENTRAL: Good to hear from you, Nose. How are you doing up there? 

NOSE: We registered cat breath about twenty minutes ago, but it was pretty
faint and I didn't think... 

CENTRAL: Steady on, nose. You were right not to trigger an alert. 

NOSE: Thank you, sir.

CENTRAL: Nose, I'm afraid I have bad news for you, son. We took a burrito
last night. 

NOSE: Oh no, sir, not again! 

CENTRAL: I said steady! You're going to have to hold on, you hear me? Hold
on, and it will pass. I don't want ANYTHING getting through to Consciousness. 

NOSE: Yes sir. I'll try, sir. 

CENTRAL: That's the spirit. Stomach! 

STOMACH: Sir? 

CENTRAL: How are you doing down there? 

STOMACH: We've been breached, Captain. The whole alimentary is in flames.
I'm trying to keep it contained, butI can't promise anything. 

CENTRAL: Damn! Any report from our search party? 

NUMBER ONE: Sir, Fingers report they located and toppled a glass of water, a
pair of glasses, and a box of Kleenex. No luck on the pager, sir. 

CENTRAL: Number One, I don't mind telling you, if we don't get this under
control we're going to lose her. 

NUMBER ONE: Yes sir. 

CENTRAL: How much time on the system clock? 

NUMBER ONE: Ten seconds to consciousness, sir. We've lost smile control in
the lower facial and we're developing a frown. 

CENTRAL: Brace yourself, Number One. I'm afraid we've had it. 

NUMBER ONE: Sir! Fingers has located target. Repeat, Fingers is on target! 

CENTRAL: Fire! 

NUMBER ONE: Hit! Sir, direct hit! 

CENTRAL: Ears! 

NUMBER ONE: It's gone, Captain! Ears reports the beeping is gone! 

CENTRAL: We've done it! 

SYSTEM: Consciousness cancelled. 

NUMBER ONE: Sir, all systems are ready for sleep mode. Repeat, sleep mode
now ready. 

CENTRAL: Trigger sleep mode NOW.

NUMBER ONE: Sleep mode triggered, aye aye, sir. 

CENTRAL: Shut Eyes. 

NUMBER ONE: Eyes off, sir. Frown relaxed, smile restored. 

CENTRAL: By golly, that was a close one. 

NUMBER ONE: Yessir. Sir, Dream Team requests selection sir. 

CENTRAL: Let's roll the one where we show up for church wearing only our
underwear, I like that one. 

NUMBER ONE: Roger that, sir. Dream selection completed and tape is rolling, sir.


CENTRAL: Good work, Number One. You take the helm.

NUMBER ONE: Aye aye, si

RE: RE: RE: RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Christopher Spence]

Ross Mohan for president!

"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot 



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:27 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am hearing such amazing stories"running for seven years"
"no failures in 4 years"."never any failures except when
the NT administrator brought down the power grid", etc. 

I am not an old hand, nor am I a greenhorn, but in my experience, 
"real, live production systems" ( e.g. more than 100 users, round 
the clock availability, frequent software updates...hardware adds 
to account for growth, etc. ) just don't run for four years without 
any downtime.  I have never seen this. New systems have bugs shaken
outold systems have legacy MTBF hiccupsall systems need 
occasional hw/sw tweaks to accomodate unplanned business needs. 

Now, if you factor OUT *scheduled* maintenance, then, hell, ANY
system can stay up for months...years...decades.  And, guess what?
If you're NOT upgrading application or system software, or patching
firmware or doing OS upgrades, it's not what I'd call a live
production system. Hell, my HP calculator has been running whenever 
I want it, nonstop, since 1987. 

As for running Nuclear stuff, I would NEVER run Oracle or Unix or NT
for ANYTHING to do with Nuclear stuff ( missiles or power ). Oh My God.
Please don't tell me any more about that. Even Oracle Corp says "don't
use our stuff in places where people's lives are directly at stake."

(But that's just me.)

Lastly, this business about "being down for one minute costs us 12 Million
dollars" is bohunk is most every case. There just isn't the data to support
that. Yea, sure, maybe the a site's average intake is 12 Million during a 
typical one hour outage (that one site out of a million) but how many of 
those spurned customers come back?  Most of them! Me, I can't get my book 
at Amazon, I just do something else and come back. ditto for my memory 
upgrade at Micron, or my tech info at Metalink. This "lost business"
argument 
is weak or NONEXISTENT in EVERY instantiation I have seen of it. 

Also, a site being down can be anything...network...front line web
servers...'
back end databasesintermediate LDAP serversand the user ( that's you
and I ) have NO WAY OF KNOWING for sure what failed. Ok...Ebay went down, 
repeatedly. They have IIS front end servers (which have not failed) and 
backend oracle databases on Sun E10K (which did). NASDAQ's reconciliation
system just went down a few weeks ago ( Unix ) But that is a case where
I have a mix of good press and backend information. As you note, most
sites won't fess up. 

I happen to work for a government client where we have aging Unix database 
servers of about five or six different flavors ( Siemens, DEC, Sun, Sequent,
etc.) 
that are pushed to their limits, feebly configured, and poorly maintained
(due to 
damagement "downtime" procedures) but very tightly maintained NT servers
(due to 
my company's downtime procedures ) and know what?   My desktop has gone down
ONCE
in two years. The mail servers for a 1000 user exchange system with 50
Mbytes per 
user mailboxes has NEVER gone down in two years.  The unix boxes have
hiccuped on 
disk...on memory...on oracle bugs.

It's just too easy ( and too wrong ) to say "NT Sucks" or "Solaris Rules"
or somesuch. (Not that you are, butsadly, many do)

Bottomline, I agree with you: If Management REALLY wants "24x7", then I just
smile, and explain the costs to them. Before you know it, there are
scheduled
hardware maintenance windows, oracle tuning/patching downtime, etc. 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:58 AM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well, I guess so if that was the only occurrence.  I'll never know and I
doubt
that they will fess-up.  

At any rate, If one wants to use NT or any other OS for that matter in a
24x7
guaranteed manner then one should look into making as much as possible
redundant.  Back in my Blue Suit days we did a lot of cause and effect
analysis,
particularly on Nuclear stuff, to insure that if one component failed there
was
a redundant part to take over the tasks of the failed unit.  We also did
analysis to determine what the likelihood of the failure was and what the
cost/benefit of having the redundant part was.  Basically, if you can expect
say
1 failure every 8544 hours and it will take less than 1 hour to correct the
failure, is it worth the expense to have redundant hardware for that
failure? 
It's one of those things that needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.
In
the case of NT, you'd need a separate server and be running OPS.  What is
the
cost, what is the expected frequency, and is the loss >= the cost??

Good questions, but only you can provide the answers.  In the case we have
here,
out HP's fail once every 4 years on average over the 10+ years of

RE: RE: RE: RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Mohan, Ross]

I am hearing such amazing stories"running for seven years"
"no failures in 4 years"."never any failures except when
the NT administrator brought down the power grid", etc. 

I am not an old hand, nor am I a greenhorn, but in my experience, 
"real, live production systems" ( e.g. more than 100 users, round 
the clock availability, frequent software updates...hardware adds 
to account for growth, etc. ) just don't run for four years without 
any downtime.  I have never seen this. New systems have bugs shaken
outold systems have legacy MTBF hiccupsall systems need 
occasional hw/sw tweaks to accomodate unplanned business needs. 

Now, if you factor OUT *scheduled* maintenance, then, hell, ANY
system can stay up for months...years...decades.  And, guess what?
If you're NOT upgrading application or system software, or patching
firmware or doing OS upgrades, it's not what I'd call a live
production system. Hell, my HP calculator has been running whenever 
I want it, nonstop, since 1987. 

As for running Nuclear stuff, I would NEVER run Oracle or Unix or NT
for ANYTHING to do with Nuclear stuff ( missiles or power ). Oh My God.
Please don't tell me any more about that. Even Oracle Corp says "don't
use our stuff in places where people's lives are directly at stake."

(But that's just me.)

Lastly, this business about "being down for one minute costs us 12 Million
dollars" is bohunk is most every case. There just isn't the data to support
that. Yea, sure, maybe the a site's average intake is 12 Million during a 
typical one hour outage (that one site out of a million) but how many of 
those spurned customers come back?  Most of them! Me, I can't get my book 
at Amazon, I just do something else and come back. ditto for my memory 
upgrade at Micron, or my tech info at Metalink. This "lost business"
argument 
is weak or NONEXISTENT in EVERY instantiation I have seen of it. 

Also, a site being down can be anything...network...front line web
servers...'
back end databasesintermediate LDAP serversand the user ( that's you
and I ) have NO WAY OF KNOWING for sure what failed. Ok...Ebay went down, 
repeatedly. They have IIS front end servers (which have not failed) and 
backend oracle databases on Sun E10K (which did). NASDAQ's reconciliation
system just went down a few weeks ago ( Unix ) But that is a case where
I have a mix of good press and backend information. As you note, most
sites won't fess up. 

I happen to work for a government client where we have aging Unix database 
servers of about five or six different flavors ( Siemens, DEC, Sun, Sequent,
etc.) 
that are pushed to their limits, feebly configured, and poorly maintained
(due to 
damagement "downtime" procedures) but very tightly maintained NT servers
(due to 
my company's downtime procedures ) and know what?   My desktop has gone down
ONCE
in two years. The mail servers for a 1000 user exchange system with 50
Mbytes per 
user mailboxes has NEVER gone down in two years.  The unix boxes have
hiccuped on 
disk...on memory...on oracle bugs.

It's just too easy ( and too wrong ) to say "NT Sucks" or "Solaris Rules"
or somesuch. (Not that you are, butsadly, many do)

Bottomline, I agree with you: If Management REALLY wants "24x7", then I just
smile, and explain the costs to them. Before you know it, there are
scheduled
hardware maintenance windows, oracle tuning/patching downtime, etc. 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:58 AM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well, I guess so if that was the only occurrence.  I'll never know and I
doubt
that they will fess-up.  

At any rate, If one wants to use NT or any other OS for that matter in a
24x7
guaranteed manner then one should look into making as much as possible
redundant.  Back in my Blue Suit days we did a lot of cause and effect
analysis,
particularly on Nuclear stuff, to insure that if one component failed there
was
a redundant part to take over the tasks of the failed unit.  We also did
analysis to determine what the likelihood of the failure was and what the
cost/benefit of having the redundant part was.  Basically, if you can expect
say
1 failure every 8544 hours and it will take less than 1 hour to correct the
failure, is it worth the expense to have redundant hardware for that
failure? 
It's one of those things that needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.
In
the case of NT, you'd need a separate server and be running OPS.  What is
the
cost, what is the expected frequency, and is the loss >= the cost??

Good questions, but only you can provide the answers.  In the case we have
here,
out HP's fail once every 4 years on average over the 10+ years of history we
have with HP.  And each failure takes about 2 hours to fix.  Now at $1000
per
minute of lost revenue that comes to $120,000.  A dual server and OPS
architecture would cost $190,000 just to acquire the  hardware and software.

Definitely not worth the expense sinc

RE: RE: RE: RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Kevin Kostyszyn]

GOOD LORD ROSS!!!  I second it.
KK

-Original Message-
Spence
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ross Mohan for president!

"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:27 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am hearing such amazing stories"running for seven years"
"no failures in 4 years"."never any failures except when
the NT administrator brought down the power grid", etc.

I am not an old hand, nor am I a greenhorn, but in my experience,
"real, live production systems" ( e.g. more than 100 users, round
the clock availability, frequent software updates...hardware adds
to account for growth, etc. ) just don't run for four years without
any downtime.  I have never seen this. New systems have bugs shaken
outold systems have legacy MTBF hiccupsall systems need
occasional hw/sw tweaks to accomodate unplanned business needs.

Now, if you factor OUT *scheduled* maintenance, then, hell, ANY
system can stay up for months...years...decades.  And, guess what?
If you're NOT upgrading application or system software, or patching
firmware or doing OS upgrades, it's not what I'd call a live
production system. Hell, my HP calculator has been running whenever
I want it, nonstop, since 1987.

As for running Nuclear stuff, I would NEVER run Oracle or Unix or NT
for ANYTHING to do with Nuclear stuff ( missiles or power ). Oh My God.
Please don't tell me any more about that. Even Oracle Corp says "don't
use our stuff in places where people's lives are directly at stake."

(But that's just me.)

Lastly, this business about "being down for one minute costs us 12 Million
dollars" is bohunk is most every case. There just isn't the data to support
that. Yea, sure, maybe the a site's average intake is 12 Million during a
typical one hour outage (that one site out of a million) but how many of
those spurned customers come back?  Most of them! Me, I can't get my book
at Amazon, I just do something else and come back. ditto for my memory
upgrade at Micron, or my tech info at Metalink. This "lost business"
argument
is weak or NONEXISTENT in EVERY instantiation I have seen of it.

Also, a site being down can be anything...network...front line web
servers...'
back end databasesintermediate LDAP serversand the user ( that's you
and I ) have NO WAY OF KNOWING for sure what failed. Ok...Ebay went down,
repeatedly. They have IIS front end servers (which have not failed) and
backend oracle databases on Sun E10K (which did). NASDAQ's reconciliation
system just went down a few weeks ago ( Unix ) But that is a case where
I have a mix of good press and backend information. As you note, most
sites won't fess up.

I happen to work for a government client where we have aging Unix database
servers of about five or six different flavors ( Siemens, DEC, Sun, Sequent,
etc.)
that are pushed to their limits, feebly configured, and poorly maintained
(due to
damagement "downtime" procedures) but very tightly maintained NT servers
(due to
my company's downtime procedures ) and know what?   My desktop has gone down
ONCE
in two years. The mail servers for a 1000 user exchange system with 50
Mbytes per
user mailboxes has NEVER gone down in two years.  The unix boxes have
hiccuped on
disk...on memory...on oracle bugs.

It's just too easy ( and too wrong ) to say "NT Sucks" or "Solaris Rules"
or somesuch. (Not that you are, butsadly, many do)

Bottomline, I agree with you: If Management REALLY wants "24x7", then I just
smile, and explain the costs to them. Before you know it, there are
scheduled
hardware maintenance windows, oracle tuning/patching downtime, etc.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:58 AM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well, I guess so if that was the only occurrence.  I'll never know and I
doubt
that they will fess-up.

At any rate, If one wants to use NT or any other OS for that matter in a
24x7
guaranteed manner then one should look into making as much as possible
redundant.  Back in my Blue Suit days we did a lot of cause and effect
analysis,
particularly on Nuclear stuff, to insure that if one component failed there
was
a redundant part to take over the tasks of the failed unit.  We also did
analysis to determine what the likelihood of the failure was and what the
cost/benefit of having the redundant part was.  Basically, if you can expect
say
1 failure every 8544 hours and it will take less than 1 hour to correct the
failure, is it worth the expense to have redundant hardware for that
failure?
It's one of those things that needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.
In
the case of NT, you'd need a separate server and be running OPS.  What is
the
cost, what is the expected frequency, and is the loss >= the cost??

Good questions, but only 

RE: RE: RE: RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Mohan, Ross]

My life would be hanging by a pregnant chad. 

That would be hard to explain to my Mum. 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


GOOD LORD ROSS!!!  I second it.
KK

-Original Message-
Spence
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ross Mohan for president!

"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:27 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am hearing such amazing stories"running for seven years"
"no failures in 4 years"."never any failures except when
the NT administrator brought down the power grid", etc.

I am not an old hand, nor am I a greenhorn, but in my experience,
"real, live production systems" ( e.g. more than 100 users, round
the clock availability, frequent software updates...hardware adds
to account for growth, etc. ) just don't run for four years without
any downtime.  I have never seen this. New systems have bugs shaken
outold systems have legacy MTBF hiccupsall systems need
occasional hw/sw tweaks to accomodate unplanned business needs.

Now, if you factor OUT *scheduled* maintenance, then, hell, ANY
system can stay up for months...years...decades.  And, guess what?
If you're NOT upgrading application or system software, or patching
firmware or doing OS upgrades, it's not what I'd call a live
production system. Hell, my HP calculator has been running whenever
I want it, nonstop, since 1987.

As for running Nuclear stuff, I would NEVER run Oracle or Unix or NT
for ANYTHING to do with Nuclear stuff ( missiles or power ). Oh My God.
Please don't tell me any more about that. Even Oracle Corp says "don't
use our stuff in places where people's lives are directly at stake."

(But that's just me.)

Lastly, this business about "being down for one minute costs us 12 Million
dollars" is bohunk is most every case. There just isn't the data to support
that. Yea, sure, maybe the a site's average intake is 12 Million during a
typical one hour outage (that one site out of a million) but how many of
those spurned customers come back?  Most of them! Me, I can't get my book
at Amazon, I just do something else and come back. ditto for my memory
upgrade at Micron, or my tech info at Metalink. This "lost business"
argument
is weak or NONEXISTENT in EVERY instantiation I have seen of it.

Also, a site being down can be anything...network...front line web
servers...'
back end databasesintermediate LDAP serversand the user ( that's you
and I ) have NO WAY OF KNOWING for sure what failed. Ok...Ebay went down,
repeatedly. They have IIS front end servers (which have not failed) and
backend oracle databases on Sun E10K (which did). NASDAQ's reconciliation
system just went down a few weeks ago ( Unix ) But that is a case where
I have a mix of good press and backend information. As you note, most
sites won't fess up.

I happen to work for a government client where we have aging Unix database
servers of about five or six different flavors ( Siemens, DEC, Sun, Sequent,
etc.)
that are pushed to their limits, feebly configured, and poorly maintained
(due to
damagement "downtime" procedures) but very tightly maintained NT servers
(due to
my company's downtime procedures ) and know what?   My desktop has gone down
ONCE
in two years. The mail servers for a 1000 user exchange system with 50
Mbytes per
user mailboxes has NEVER gone down in two years.  The unix boxes have
hiccuped on
disk...on memory...on oracle bugs.

It's just too easy ( and too wrong ) to say "NT Sucks" or "Solaris Rules"
or somesuch. (Not that you are, butsadly, many do)

Bottomline, I agree with you: If Management REALLY wants "24x7", then I just
smile, and explain the costs to them. Before you know it, there are
scheduled
hardware maintenance windows, oracle tuning/patching downtime, etc.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:58 AM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well, I guess so if that was the only occurrence.  I'll never know and I
doubt
that they will fess-up.

At any rate, If one wants to use NT or any other OS for that matter in a
24x7
guaranteed manner then one should look into making as much as possible
redundant.  Back in my Blue Suit days we did a lot of cause and effect
analysis,
particularly on Nuclear stuff, to insure that if one component failed there
was
a redundant part to take over the tasks of the failed unit.  We also did
analysis to determine what the likelihood of the failure was and what the
cost/benefit of having the redundant part was.  Basically, if you can expect
say
1 failure every 8544 hours and it will take less than 1 hour to correct the
failure, is it worth the expense to have redundant hardware for that
failure?
It's one of those things that needs to be evaluated on 

RE: RE: RE: RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Kevin Kostyszyn]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


My life would be hanging by a pregnant chad.

That would be hard to explain to my Mum.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


GOOD LORD ROSS!!!  I second it.
KK

-Original Message-
Spence
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ross Mohan for president!

"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:27 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am hearing such amazing stories"running for seven years"
"no failures in 4 years"."never any failures except when
the NT administrator brought down the power grid", etc.

I am not an old hand, nor am I a greenhorn, but in my experience,
"real, live production systems" ( e.g. more than 100 users, round
the clock availability, frequent software updates...hardware adds
to account for growth, etc. ) just don't run for four years without
any downtime.  I have never seen this. New systems have bugs shaken
outold systems have legacy MTBF hiccupsall systems need
occasional hw/sw tweaks to accomodate unplanned business needs.

Now, if you factor OUT *scheduled* maintenance, then, hell, ANY
system can stay up for months...years...decades.  And, guess what?
If you're NOT upgrading application or system software, or patching
firmware or doing OS upgrades, it's not what I'd call a live
production system. Hell, my HP calculator has been running whenever
I want it, nonstop, since 1987.

As for running Nuclear stuff, I would NEVER run Oracle or Unix or NT
for ANYTHING to do with Nuclear stuff ( missiles or power ). Oh My God.
Please don't tell me any more about that. Even Oracle Corp says "don't
use our stuff in places where people's lives are directly at stake."

(But that's just me.)

Lastly, this business about "being down for one minute costs us 12 Million
dollars" is bohunk is most every case. There just isn't the data to support
that. Yea, sure, maybe the a site's average intake is 12 Million during a
typical one hour outage (that one site out of a million) but how many of
those spurned customers come back?  Most of them! Me, I can't get my book
at Amazon, I just do something else and come back. ditto for my memory
upgrade at Micron, or my tech info at Metalink. This "lost business"
argument
is weak or NONEXISTENT in EVERY instantiation I have seen of it.

Also, a site being down can be anything...network...front line web
servers...'
back end databasesintermediate LDAP serversand the user ( that's you
and I ) have NO WAY OF KNOWING for sure what failed. Ok...Ebay went down,
repeatedly. They have IIS front end servers (which have not failed) and
backend oracle databases on Sun E10K (which did). NASDAQ's reconciliation
system just went down a few weeks ago ( Unix ) But that is a case where
I have a mix of good press and backend information. As you note, most
sites won't fess up.

I happen to work for a government client where we have aging Unix database
servers of about five or six different flavors ( Siemens, DEC, Sun, Sequent,
etc.)
that are pushed to their limits, feebly configured, and poorly maintained
(due to
damagement "downtime" procedures) but very tightly maintained NT servers
(due to
my company's downtime procedures ) and know what?   My desktop has gone down
ONCE
in two years. The mail servers for a 1000 user exchange system with 50
Mbytes per
user mailboxes has NEVER gone down in two years.  The unix boxes have
hiccuped on
disk...on memory...on oracle bugs.

It's just too easy ( and too wrong ) to say "NT Sucks" or "Solaris Rules"
or somesuch. (Not that you are, butsadly, many do)

Bottomline, I agree with you: If Management REALLY wants "24x7", then I just
smile, and explain the costs to them. Before you know it, there are
scheduled
hardware maintenance windows, oracle tuning/patching downtime, etc.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:58 AM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well, I guess so if that was the only occurrence.  I'll never know and I
doubt
that they will fess-up.

At any rate, If one wants to use NT or any other OS for that matter in a
24x7
guaranteed manner then one should look into making as much as possible
redundant.  Back in my Blue Suit days we did a lot of cause and effect
analysis,
particularly on Nuclear stuff, to insure that if one component failed there
was
a redundant part to take over the tasks of the failed unit.  We also did
analysis to determine what the likelihood of the failure was and what the
cost/benefit of having the redundant part was.  Basically, if you can expect
say
1 failure every 8544 hours and it will take less than 1 hour to correct the
failure,

RE: RE: RE: RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Henry Poras]

Yeah. Check out
http://www.ucomics.com/tomthedancingbug/viewtd.cfm?uc_fn=1&uc_full_date=2001
0609&uc_daction=P&uc_comic=td
I think there is room to add a pony-tailed Hannibal.

Henry

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ross Mohan for president!

"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot 



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:27 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am hearing such amazing stories"running for seven years"
"no failures in 4 years"."never any failures except when
the NT administrator brought down the power grid", etc. 

I am not an old hand, nor am I a greenhorn, but in my experience, 
"real, live production systems" ( e.g. more than 100 users, round 
the clock availability, frequent software updates...hardware adds 
to account for growth, etc. ) just don't run for four years without 
any downtime.  I have never seen this. New systems have bugs shaken
outold systems have legacy MTBF hiccupsall systems need 
occasional hw/sw tweaks to accomodate unplanned business needs. 

Now, if you factor OUT *scheduled* maintenance, then, hell, ANY
system can stay up for months...years...decades.  And, guess what?
If you're NOT upgrading application or system software, or patching
firmware or doing OS upgrades, it's not what I'd call a live
production system. Hell, my HP calculator has been running whenever 
I want it, nonstop, since 1987. 

As for running Nuclear stuff, I would NEVER run Oracle or Unix or NT
for ANYTHING to do with Nuclear stuff ( missiles or power ). Oh My God.
Please don't tell me any more about that. Even Oracle Corp says "don't
use our stuff in places where people's lives are directly at stake."

(But that's just me.)

Lastly, this business about "being down for one minute costs us 12 Million
dollars" is bohunk is most every case. There just isn't the data to support
that. Yea, sure, maybe the a site's average intake is 12 Million during a 
typical one hour outage (that one site out of a million) but how many of 
those spurned customers come back?  Most of them! Me, I can't get my book 
at Amazon, I just do something else and come back. ditto for my memory 
upgrade at Micron, or my tech info at Metalink. This "lost business"
argument 
is weak or NONEXISTENT in EVERY instantiation I have seen of it. 

Also, a site being down can be anything...network...front line web
servers...'
back end databasesintermediate LDAP serversand the user ( that's you
and I ) have NO WAY OF KNOWING for sure what failed. Ok...Ebay went down, 
repeatedly. They have IIS front end servers (which have not failed) and 
backend oracle databases on Sun E10K (which did). NASDAQ's reconciliation
system just went down a few weeks ago ( Unix ) But that is a case where
I have a mix of good press and backend information. As you note, most
sites won't fess up. 

I happen to work for a government client where we have aging Unix database 
servers of about five or six different flavors ( Siemens, DEC, Sun, Sequent,
etc.) 
that are pushed to their limits, feebly configured, and poorly maintained
(due to 
damagement "downtime" procedures) but very tightly maintained NT servers
(due to 
my company's downtime procedures ) and know what?   My desktop has gone down
ONCE
in two years. The mail servers for a 1000 user exchange system with 50
Mbytes per 
user mailboxes has NEVER gone down in two years.  The unix boxes have
hiccuped on 
disk...on memory...on oracle bugs.

It's just too easy ( and too wrong ) to say "NT Sucks" or "Solaris Rules"
or somesuch. (Not that you are, butsadly, many do)

Bottomline, I agree with you: If Management REALLY wants "24x7", then I just
smile, and explain the costs to them. Before you know it, there are
scheduled
hardware maintenance windows, oracle tuning/patching downtime, etc. 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:58 AM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well, I guess so if that was the only occurrence.  I'll never know and I
doubt
that they will fess-up.  

At any rate, If one wants to use NT or any other OS for that matter in a
24x7
guaranteed manner then one should look into making as much as possible
redundant.  Back in my Blue Suit days we did a lot of cause and effect
analysis,
particularly on Nuclear stuff, to insure that if one component failed there
was
a redundant part to take over the tasks of the failed unit.  We also did
analysis to determine what the likelihood of the failure was and what the
cost/benefit of having the redundant part was.  Basically, if you can expect
say
1 failure every 8544 hours and it will take less than 1 hour to correct the
failure, is it worth the expense to have redundant hardware for that
failure? 
It's one of those things that needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.
In
th

Re:RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: OT: Rachel in Vietnam

[dgoulet]

Sure, why not.  The BRICK-BAT method.

Reply Separator
Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2001 5:08 PM

Wow. Talk about enforcing "foreign constraints".

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:01 PM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ross,

When a B-52, otherwise known as a BUFF (Big Ugly Fat F^cker), unloads
150 to
200(B-52D with wing racks) 750LB demolition bombs nothing stands.  Even
duhvelopers.  I've had Marines discribe the area where a BUFF strike landed
as
"It looked like God reached down, scooped out a three mile long by half a
mile
wide, by 100 foot deep piece of the earth and take it away".  I don't know
about
cool, but it sure was effective!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2001 4:28 PM

BUFF bomb. That sounds cool. Will it work on developers?

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:18 PM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ross,

Makes sense, Nam was BUG heaven, unless they got caught in the path of a
BUFF bomb run.  Nothing survived that. :-)

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2001 8:02 AM

Dick , 

Didn't you know? Rachel WAS in Nam. But she 
never talks about it. I think it had to do
with the bugs. 

Just a thought. 

Ross

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 8:32 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Rachel,

If you were given one, as I was in Nam, you'd not know the difference. 
Looks like, & tastes like a crunch bar for the most part, except for the
logo on
top.  It just crunches better.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Rachel Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2001 4:10 PM

but Moom, the icky bugs TOUCHED the chocolate!   :)



>From: Kimberly Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: RE: OT: Oracle *Chocolate* Monitoring Tools/Friday Recipe
>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:45:29 -0800
>
>You could just lick the chocolate off.
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 10:11 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> I have a phobia about bugs...
>
>what a waste of perfectly good chocolate
>
>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re:RE: OT: Oracle *Chocolate* Monitoring Tools/Friday Recipe
> >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:11:20 -0800
> >
> >OK you chocaholics try this on for size:
> >
> >  Reuters Monday, March 19, 2001
> >
> >Chocolate-Coated Bugs Are Latest Treat
> >
> >LONDON (Reuters) - Ants, crickets and scorpions, baked, coated
> >in chocolate and promoted as a high-protein snack, are proving
> >popular among peckish Londoners.
> >
> >Designer Todd Dalton, who trained as a chef in Louisiana and
> >acquired a taste for cooked insects on his travels in Asia and
> >central America, says he has sold 5,000 chocolate-coated bugs
> >since he began marketing them in December.
> >
> >"They are very high in protein and very low in fat. They have a
> >higher percentage of protein than any meat or fish that we
> >commonly eat," he told Reuters.
> >
> >The creepy-crawly chocs sell for between three and 3.50 pounds
> >($4.30-$5.00) at upmarket London stores such as Selfridges and
> >the Conran Shop and will soon be appearingin shops in Munich
> >and Zurich.
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >--
> >Author:
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> >
> >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
>_
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>--
>Please see the officia

Re:RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: OT: Rachel in Vietnam

[Peter Barnett]

It did not work that wel.  Just gave the bad guys really good cover 
after the noise stopped.  Probably don't want to give developers that 
many places to hide.


Pete Barnett
Oracle Database Administrator
Regence BlueCross BlueShield
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Sure, why not.  The BRICK-BAT method.
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   3/20/2001 5:08 PM
> 
> Wow. Talk about enforcing "foreign constraints".
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:01 PM
> To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Ross,
> 
> When a B-52, otherwise known as a BUFF (Big Ugly Fat F^cker), unloads
> 150 to
> 200(B-52D with wing racks) 750LB demolition bombs nothing stands.  Even
> duhvelopers.  I've had Marines discribe the area where a BUFF strike landed
> as
> "It looked like God reached down, scooped out a three mile long by half a
> mile
> wide, by 100 foot deep piece of the earth and take it away".  I don't know
> about
> cool, but it sure was effective!!
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   3/20/2001 4:28 PM
> 
> BUFF bomb. That sounds cool. Will it work on developers?
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:18 PM
> To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Ross,
> 
> Makes sense, Nam was BUG heaven, unless they got caught in the path of a
> BUFF bomb run.  Nothing survived that. :-)
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Mohan; Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   3/20/2001 8:02 AM
> 
> Dick , 
> 
> Didn't you know? Rachel WAS in Nam. But she 
> never talks about it. I think it had to do
> with the bugs. 
> 
> Just a thought. 
> 
> Ross
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 8:32 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Rachel,
> 
> If you were given one, as I was in Nam, you'd not know the difference. 
> Looks like, & tastes like a crunch bar for the most part, except for the
> logo on
> top.  It just crunches better.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator________
> Author: "Rachel Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   3/19/2001 4:10 PM
> 
> but Moom, the icky bugs TOUCHED the chocolate!   :)
> 
> 
> 
> >From: Kimberly Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: RE: OT: Oracle *Chocolate* Monitoring Tools/Friday Recipe
> >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:45:29 -0800
> >
> >You could just lick the chocolate off.
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 10:11 AM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > I have a phobia about bugs...
> >
> >what a waste of perfectly good chocolate
> >
> >
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: Re:RE: OT: Oracle *Chocolate* Monitoring Tools/Friday Recipe
> > >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:11:20 -0800
> > >
> > >OK you chocaholics try this on for size:
> > >
> > >  Reuters Monday, March 19, 2001
> > >
> > >Chocolate-Coated Bugs Are Latest Treat
> > >
> > >LONDON (Reuters) - Ants, crickets and scorpions, baked, coated
> > >in chocolate and promoted as a high-protein snack, are proving
> > >popular among peckish Londoners.
> > >
> > >Designer Todd Dalton, who trained as a chef in Louisiana and
> > >acquired a taste for cooked insects on his travels in Asia and
> > >central America, says he has sold 5,000 chocolate-coated bugs
> > >since he began marketing them in December.
> > >
> > >"They are very high in protein and very low in fat. They have a
> > >higher percentage of protein than any meat or fish that we
> > >commonly eat," he told Reuters.
> > >
> > >The creepy-crawly chocs sell for between three and 3.50 pounds
> > >($4.30-$5.00) at upmarket London stores such as Selfridges and
> > >the Conran Shop and will soon be app

RE: RE: Re: Logical StandBy question

[Stephane Faroult]

I tried it on 9.2.0.3.0 running on two Linux machines. I doubt all bugs were fixed in 
9.2.0.4. I currently consider LSB to be a prototype, an interesting foretaste of 
things to come, but hardly more.
It of course depends on the size of the database, but couldn't you consider doing 
reporting on a Day - 1 database?
Might be simpler to use your hot backups and recreate a backup database every night. 
Or perhaps use snaphots (sorry, materialized views) - traditional replication (you 
don't need the 'advanced' stuff). If the production database can bear the overhead.
Anyway, if you are as lucky as I was, this is (rebuilding the database from your 
backups) what you may well end doing with LSB (plus the 26 step process each time - 
well, I wrote scripts to help).

HTH,

SF
>- --- Original Message --- -
>From: "Juan Miranda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:34:25
>
>
>I am just planning a LOGICAL data guard
>installation in an important client.
>They need it for reporting and backup (primary is
>24x7x365 and we have hot
>backup.)
>
>I didn?t kwon that LSB are so bad.
>
>So do you think It is so bad that you don?t put it
>into production ???
>
>Do you try 9.2.0.4 ??
>
>
>I need to take a decision
>
>I thank your previous answers.
>(I read doc, of course, but It is not explicity say
>that)
>  -Mensaje original-
>  De: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre de
>Carel-Jan Engel
>  Enviado el: miercoles, 12 de noviembre de 2003
>19:59
>  Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>  Asunto: RE: Re: Logical StandBy question
>
>
>  Walt, drop me your email-address, and I send you
>the handouts of a special
>I presented about DG for Oracle University in
>Stockholm.
>
>  I'm going out now for a few hours (it's 19.30
>over here), but I'll respond
>later this evening.
>
>  regards, Carel-Jan
>  At 09:19 12-11-03 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Stephane,
>
>What sort of problems can one expect from
>logical standby?
>
>I'm toying with the idea of using it as a
>replication database -- no
>additional schema objects will be created, but
>users will have read-only
>access to it. It's one of the options I'm
>looking at.
>
>Seems to me like there was a thread on this a
>few months ago, but I'm
>not sure...
>
>--Walt
>
>On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 09:49, Stephane Faroult
>wrote:
>> Jose Luis,
>>
>>   What you say refers to the physical standby
>database (which works
>well),
>> not to the logical standby database (which on
>the paper looks great,
>allows you to open the database, create additional
>tablespaces, create
>additional indexes on replicated objects etc) but
>which in practice still
>has a lot of teething troubles. Wouldn't use it in
>production on Oracle 9.2.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> SF
>>
>> >- --- Original Message --- -
>
>> >From: Jose Luis Delgado
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:09:27
>> >
>> >Hmm...
>> >
>> >I'd like to know where in the manuals... :-)
>
>> >
>> >I do not think so since the standby database
>stay
>> >in
>> >permanent recovery mode.
>> >
>> >JL
>> >
>> >--- Rachel Carmichael
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >wrote:
>> >> yes. Well documented in the manuals
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --- Juan Miranda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi
>> >> >
>> >> > It is posible to create other schemas on
>a
>> >logical
>> >> stand by database
>> >> > ?
>> >> >
>> >> > I mean, schemas that don?t exist in the
>primary
>> >
>> >> database.
>> >> > --
>> >> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
>> >> http://www.orafaq.net
>> >> > --
>> >> > Author: Juan Miranda
>> >> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> --
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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Re: RE: RE: Oracle TEMPORARY SEGMENT

[chao_ping]

Whittle Jerome Contr NCI,
1.Temporary tablespace in oracle8i+ does not need coalesce, and Oracle do not 
deallocate used sort extents. This is a feature.
2.There is no pctincrease parameter in TEMPORARY tablespace.
SQL> /
 create temporary tablespace test_tmp tempfile '/home/oracle/temp.dd' size 10m default 
storage(pctincrease 0)
   *
ERROR at line 1:
ORA-25139: invalid option for CREATE TEMPORARY TABLESPACE


Elapsed: 00:00:00.04


[oracle@ish3 oracle]$ sql

SQL*Plus: Release 8.1.7.0.0 - Production on Tue Feb 11 23:31:50 2003

(c) Copyright 2000 Oracle Corporation.  All rights reserved.


Connected to:
Oracle8i Enterprise Edition Release 8.1.7.0.0 - Production
With the Partitioning option
JServer Release 8.1.7.0.0 - Production

SQL> alter tablespace temp default storage(pctincrease 0);
alter tablespace temp default storage(pctincrease 0)
*
ERROR at line 1:
ORA-03217: invalid option for alter of TEMPORARY TABLESPACE






Regards
zhu chao
msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.happyit.net
www.cnoug.org(China Oracle User Group)

=== 2003-02-11 08:39:00 ,you wrote£º===

>Hi,
>
>It does work on temporary (that are truly temporary and not permanent) tablespaces in 
>7.3.4 and 8.1.7. I use it when I don't want to wait for SMON to clean things up. Just 
>yesterday one our 'power users' ran SQL that selected from two tables with no join 
>between them. The resulting Cartesian set would have been over 3 billion records. The 
>same SQL also had a complex group by clause to eliminate all the duplicate records he 
>just created. It locked up after many hours because it filled the 1.2 GB TEMP 
>tablespace. I killed the process and ran my SQL to clean out the temp tablespace 
>quickly. BTW: I rewrote his SQL properly and it took less than a minute to return the 
>1036 records. 
>
>Jerry Whittle
>ASIFICS DBA
>NCI Information Systems Inc.
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>618-622-4145
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From:chao_ping [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> 
>> Whittle Jerome Contr NCI,
>>  I think your sql should not work on a really TEMPORARY tablespace, and 
>temporary tablespace do not need to be cleaned either.
>> 
>> Regards
>> zhu chao
>> msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> www.happyit.net
>> www.cnoug.org(China Oracle User Group)
>> 
>> === 2003-02-11 06:49:00 ,you wrote£º===
>> 
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >This is what I use to clean up a temp tablespace. The tablespace is named 'temp' 
>and it is normally set to PCTINCREASE of 10. You will need to insert the correct 
>values for your temp tablespace. Altering the tablespace a little wakes us SMON which 
>will clean things up if it can.
>> >
>> >alter tablespace temp default storage(pctincrease 0);
>> >alter tablespace temp default storage(pctincrease 10);
>> >
>> >50Mb seems rather small for a temp tablespace.
>> >
>> >Jerry Whittle
>> >ASIFICS DBA
>> >NCI Information Systems Inc.
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >618-622-4145
>> >
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: Zabair Ahmed [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> >> 
>> >> Is their any way of identifying which user/process is holding onto a temporary 
>segment. I've got a 50Mb temporary tablespace and there is a temporary segment which 
>is 47Mb which is not being freed up by SMON.
>> >> 
>> >> And, if i can't identify who is holding onto this TEMP segment, is their a way 
>in which I can delete it and stop the alert log being flooded with ORA-1652.
>> >> 
>> >> As I say the SMON is failing to clean up this TEMP segment and it's been 
>on-going for a number of days and I don't have the option of bouncing the database.
>> >> 
>> >> Oracle 8.1.7.3 on HP-UX 11.
>> >> 
>> >> TIA 
>> 

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: chao_ping
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: RE: Re[2]: sequence numbers

[Deshpande, Kirti]

I wanted to take a picture with him. 
.. and take him out to lunch to learn from his experience ... ;-) 
but it turned out he lasted only for less than a week... ;) 
(Some developers he was working with knew a bit more Oracle than him)

- Kirti  



-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 11:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Let's see, 1 table with 700+ columns that can grow to ~1GB that you want to
iot
and have in the keep pool.  What are you smoking!  That's one consultant
that
I'd HAVE to laugh in his/her face.  And he/she would NOT get away with it.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/11/2002 7:19 AM

it's all in the buzzwords, obviously :)


--- "Deshpande, Kirti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We were asked, not too long ago, to create one Oracle8i database with
> only
> *one* table with some 700+ columns. While at it, the consultant
> (hired by
> end user dept) also suggested that we make it an IOT using an LMT,
> and since
> the table will never grow over 1GB, asked if there was a way to put
> it in
> KEEP buffer pool. He was helping re-write/enhance some MS Access
> Apps.
> 
> Talk about knowing all the right lingo... ;) 
> 
> - Kirti
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 8:59 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> April,
> 
> What can I say?  Ouch!  I feel your pain.  I've been trapped in some
> pretty ridiculous situations too.  (Though, I think you have me beat!
>  A
> 37 column primary key?? Really??)  Well, you at least seem to have
> the
> proper attitude. ;-)  Without a sense of humor, I'm afraid you'd go
> insane in short order!  ;-)
> 
> The only other thing I can think of when people shut you down like
> that
> is: document.  "At meeting X, on such and such a date, I identified
> this
> problem, and Mr. Z told me to not to worry about it."  It may not
> help,
> but from a sanity point of view, there is a certain amount of
> satisfaction in "I told you so!", even if you never verbalize
> it;-)
> 
> Hang in there,
> 
> -Mark
> 
> On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 08:43, April Wells wrote:
> > Mark...
> > 
> > If this were the MOST serious design flaw in the whole mess, I
> wouldn't
> care
> > so much.  There is a point where you just shut up (gee, I have been
> TOLD
> to
> > do that in meetings) and wait till it breaks (or worse, one of our
> clients
> > buys it and we have to TRY to implement).  I am the funny one...
> the one
> to
> > laugh at and make fun of because I keep trying to tell them that
> you can't
> > do things.  You can't have a totally denormalized Oracle table if
> there
> 1500
> > columns in it... yes queries will fly on a table that can't be
> built.  You
> > can't have 37 columns in a primary key.  Date really isn't an
> acceptable
> > name for a column.
> > 
> > April Wells
> > Oracle DBA 
> > Keep yourself well oiled with life, laughter, new ideas and action.
> > Otherwise you will rust out.  _Anonymous
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 7:34 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Dick,
> > 
> > I have to disagree with you here.  Particularly in the case where
> this
> > sequence will see any sort of concurrency, from multiple concurrent
> > sessions accessing it.  This is due to the serialization on the SQ
> > enqueue.  This will cause far worse scalability issues than any
> I/O. 
> > Not that I/O is insignificant, but in this situation, serialization
> on
> > the enqueue will be the real showstopper for scalability.
> > 
> > As to losing the cached values, well, so what?  If your design is
> such
> > that it's important to have an unbroken contiguous sequence of
> numbers
> > with no gaps, then I would argue that is a serious design flaw. 
> Also,
> > if that's your requirement, then a sequence is not appropriate,
> since it
> > can and will end up causing gaps, the first time you roll back a
> > transaction.
> > 
> > Finally, as to sequences losing cached values, unless your instance
> > crashes or does a shutdown abort, Oracle should not loose any
> sequence
> > values.
> > 
> > -Mark
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, 2002-10-10 at 18:18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Actually there is no IO penalty since Oracle has to treat the
> seq

Re: RE: RE: dumping microsoft desktop?

[Ray Stell]

On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 05:59:06AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> OH, talk about cruel and unusual punishment!!  For the fish that is.


It is interesting that so many people feel this way and yet the topic
is reduced to joking, as if it is not possible (or really desirable) to
replace technology.  MVS systems programmers couldn't envision life
without an IBM mainframe a few years ago.  I asked the desktop question
because we are exploring this path due to huge budget issues and the
million dollar invoice to M$ is due.  I wanted to see if the Oracle
world had anything going on the topic.  Guess not.

Star and Open Office advances seem to be milestones in this arena.
I believe we will move some % of our admin desktops to linux this 
year as a pilot.  Departments can't afford the price of upgrading
their office software, they will try the open versions to see
what happens.

Interesting bullets:

The EU is studying the conversion of member goverment desktops:

www.globetechnology.com/servlet/ArticleNews/einsider/RTGAM/20021104/gtopenms/einsider/

 The European Union awarded on Thursday a $249,000 (U.S.) contract to
 U.K.-based system-integrator Netproject to study the feasibility of
 moving the information systems of several member countries'
 governments to the Linux operating system from Microsoft's Windows
 OS.

www.netproject.co.uk/opendesktop.html

 "The USA National Security Agency's white paper 'The Inevitability of
 Failure: The Flawed Assumption of Security in Modern Computing
 Environments' should be read by all who are concernd with achieving
 secure systems that enable e-business. This is at
 www.nsa.gov/selinux/inevit-abs.html."


...waiting for the 9.2.0.2 patch to finish on my Mandrake 9 desktop (see, 
it's not off topic! ;)







> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   11/14/2002 1:38 PM
> 
> Well, once upon a time there was an event called Boston Tea Party
> which dealt with too expensive product of low quality delivered by 
> a monopoly. I wonder whether we can expect Seattle Windows Party?
> Would that be too cruel to the fish in Seattle harbor?
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:dgoulet@;vicr.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:44 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re:RE: dumping microsoft desktop?
> > 
> > 
> > David,
> > 
> > Just like beauty, winning or loosing in a lawsuit is in 
> > the eye of the
> > beholder.  Actually in MicroSlop's case it was the justice 
> > department that
> > bailed and more than likely King George who sat on the judge. 
> >  You got to love
> > those political action committees and their BIG donors!!  In 
> > politics money
> > talks louder than anything else.
> > 
> > Dick Goulet
> > 
> > Reply Separator
> > Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date:   11/14/2002 12:15 PM
> > 
> > 
> > > Both answers a are expected to be "No". The lawsuit is
> > > expected to be dropped. But who knows. They won
> > > antitrust case after all.
> > > 
> > > Nick
> > > 
> > 
> > I know it *seems* like they won, but Microsoft actually lost 
> > the antitrust
> > case. :-(
> > 
> > Dave
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: 
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: 
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Gogala, Mladen
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> 

Re: Re[2]: RE: Interesting News..

[Eric D. Pierce]

Dick,

Short/brusque, me Thanks! :)

I don't mind being "called on it" if someone thinks I'm being 
argumentative (HELP, "am I an idiot?"), the thing that bugs me is 
when it is done in such a manner that the chastiser sounds like a 
pissy little fascist (autocratic/dicatorial/conformist/suppressive of 
opposition/etc).

Even worse is when they then go on to provide absolutely no further 
useful/interesting information on the subject (by which their 
otherwise cr*ppy attitude could perhaps be ever so slightly redeemed).

With infinite wisdom, the Creator of the universe (the God that 
doesn't think he is Larry Ellison) brought about cooperation and 
competition. Looks like we need to work on cooperation at this point.

I do recognize that the world isn't divided into bad evil corporate 
types, and innocent customers. The situation in the industry is 
complex, and subject to wrenching changes (eg, PCs as commodities) 
and bad times. If customers were more responsible about understanding 
the industry, and trying to support "good players" in various ways, 
there is no doubt that the world would be more full of "good" at this 
point. At the same time, the hype, arrogance, and techno-
insularization that crops up on on the corporate side is very 
annoying, and I'm getting really sick of it.

I think it would be useful if corporate people would try to learn a 
little bit about systems theory (cybernetics, self-learning and self-
organization of communities of interest, communities of competence, 
etc.), and gain an understanding of how there are always informal 
information sharing mechanisms that function as needed alternatives 
to the formal mechanisms of management, information control and 
corporate "mission".

Given that there appears to be a fair amount of awareness of the 
internal need to run companies in "smart mode" with respect to the 
internal value of such informal dynamics, one has to wonder if it is 
just too hard to deal with the chaos involved in extending those 
methods to external relations with customers?

As always, your comrade in visualizing whirled peas,
ep

On 10 Sep 2001, at 16:37, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> scribbled with alacrity 
and cogency:

Date sent:  Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:37:43 -0400
To: "Eric D. Pierce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> To All,
> 
> As much as this thread is apparently getting a little terse (No I'm NOT
> getting on ANYBODY's case) it is a relief to realize that I'm not the only
> person who gets barbecued for what I believe is a normal, non argumentative
> e-mail message.  If I have a nickel for every time one of my local colleagues
> called me a bonehead for a message, I could have retired last year!  
> 
> Guess Eric & I are both in the STBU club!  Eric, welcome aboard!  :-)
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Subject:Re: RE: Interesting News..
> Author: "Eric D. Pierce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   9/10/2001 1:17 PM
> 
> K-
> 
> I apparently made the mistake of thinking that the US constitution 
> says that there is a right to FREE SPEECH in this friggin country.  
> 
> I'm reporting what a reseller is saying about his several years of 
> experience, and what bugs the daylights out of the people that 
> ACTUALLY PAY MONEY FOR A PRODUCT (known as "customers" for those that 
> have never heard the word before).
> 
> Note that the resalescritter was specifically addressing the 
> headaches reported by CUSTOMERS at sites using service offerings in 
> the "SUB-enterprise" category.
> 
> Anyone feel free to call me an idiot (HELP), that I'm wrong, or 
> whatever, but absent the technical merits of a "pro-Compaq" position 
> having been presented in detail, all I hear is someone acting like a 
> pissy little fascist.  
> 
> My writing wasn't exacty at the level of the Great Bard, but it would 
> help if people would read a bit more carefully before they barf.
> 
> Speaking of which, I'm sick of all the crap (lying/etc.) from vendors 
> and their employees and the friends of their employees, and having 
> them expecting the customers to kiss their a$$es all the time because 
> they are some big megacorp.
> 
> Of course the good news is that I can now go around telling people 
> that if they want good services, they should buy IBM since there are 
> so many a$$holes in the Compaq world.  
> 
> brgrds,
> ep
> 
> [ via ORACLE-L Digest -- Volume 2001, Number 251]
> 
> > 
> > --
> > 
> >  From: Kimberly Smith <[EMAIL PROTECT

RE: Re[2]: RE: Interesting News..

[Boivin, Patrice J]

Why is it that flames rarely have the letters OT in the subject line...

Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

-- 
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RE: RE: RE: World's largest database...

[Jim Hawkins]

Ian,

Thanks for the info.  Very interesting.

Jim

"MacGregor, Ian A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>The  0.5 petabyte database at SLAC does not use Oracle;  it uses Objectivity.   
>Objectivity is a small company which makes an OODB.  When the project started there 
>was no way that Oracle could possibly handle this.  It is still doubtful: Oracle does 
>not truly support Hierarchical Storage Systems;  using one huge RAC ties limits your 
>machine vendors; some limits such as 64,000 partitions probably need to be increased.
>
>CERN is however very interested in using Oracle for their Large Hadronic Collider, 
>but that's about seven years off.  That database will surpass BABAR's which as of 
>00:01:13 this morning (April 18 2002) was storing 549.6 TB has been stored in 324603 
>files.  CERN's possible use of Oracle is not due to failures in Objectivity, but due 
> to that company's inability to capture market share.  They are hoping the problems 
>which prevent Oracle from handling large databases can be fixed by then.    I am also 
>hoping for this, but I fear Oracle may prove to be an uncooperative prohibitedly 
>expensive partner.
>
>
>Here we have plans to turn up the luminosity.  If approved the database will reach 
>one exabyte by the end of the experiment.
>
>I don't believe the genealogy databases are even close to 500 TB.
>
>
>Ian MacGregor
>Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:29 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>I can believe that - I think they are the group that offers all the geneaology 
>services to track family histories.  I'll bet that's one heck of database too!
>
>Jim
>
>"Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>At the Oracle Technology Day here they mentioned that one of the largest
>>databases belongs to the Church Of Latter Day Saints, if you can believe it.
>>
>>They mentioned it in a seminar which also talked about iFS, I don't know
>>they were implying that it relies on iFS.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Patrice Boivin
>>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>Sent:   Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:03 AM
>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>>Subject:    World's largest database...
>>
>>http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO70250,00.html
>>
>>I thought we had someone on this list from this group, and was just
>>wondering if this particular database was in Oracle or not.
>>
>>Jim
>>
>>--
>>_
>>Jim Hawkins
>>Oracle Database Administrator
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>St. Louis, MO  USA
>>--
>>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>>--
>>Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>>San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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>>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>>
>
>
>--
>_
>Jim Hawkins
>Oracle Database Administrator
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>St. Louis, MO  USA
>
>
>
>__
>Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the 
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RE: RE: RE: Oracle Browser 2

[Kevin Lange]

Discoverer did what it was supposed to do .  but it did it in a VERY
UGLY MANNER.

You should have seen the Crap SQL it returned for its queries...  I would
have expected a product written BY ORALCE FOR ORACLE to be written in such a
way that it returned the best SQL that could be generated.

This was pure unadulterated Crap.

And that is not just my opinion  its the unadulterated truth !

Kevin

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 3:12 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


David,

In it's current incarnation I'd recommend against it.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: David Wagoner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/31/2001 12:05 PM

Wow.  Thanks for your effort here Dick.  Sounds like quite an ordeal.  At
least I'll know some problems to look for if my company decides to try
Discoverer!


David B. Wagoner
Database Administrator
Arsenal Digital Solutions Worldwide Inc.
4815 Emperor Blvd., Suite 110
Durham, NC 27703
Tel. (919) 941-4645
Fax (919) 474-0735
Email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web http://www.arsenaldigital.com/

 
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immediately notify the sender at (919) 941-4645 and delete this e-mail
message from your computer.  Thank you.



-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 9:55 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

David,

OK, first off the Oracle sales droid and pre-sales droid came in to do
the
install of the product (9iAS Enterprise Edition which BTW, you HAVE to have
the
Enterprise edition or else you don't get the WEB based tool).  The install
manual said it would need 6GB of HP-UX disk to install properly, BULL it was
much closer to 9GB (OK, 8.75 to be exact).  You end up installing WEB forms,
graphics, reports, and the cache DB even though your not going to use them.
We
were told the install and initial configuration would only take half a day,
it
took that long just to read in the CD's and in actually took the better part
of
16 hours with configuration going on into a third 8 hour time period. What a
pile of BLOATware, YUCK!!

Next the locator process intermittently died for no apparent reason.
There
was no core dump, or other indication that something odd had happen & the
log
file was less than helpful it turns out.  Actually pointed us in the WRONG
direction.  According to the log we were having a semaphore problem when in
truth it turned into a semaphore set problem.  This thing LOVES doing IPC's.


Next we had a problem with browsers.  The company 'standard' is
MicroSlop IE
5.0.  Suppose to work, WRONG!!  The only machine that would run Discoverer
was a
brand new one with ME and IE 5.51 or something like that, and then it wasn't
exactly sure it wanted to go!!  This one appears to be a JVM issue (MS does
not
like SUN on which Oracle's Java implementations is based), but MetaLink has
a
pointer to an article on 'How to use JInitiator with IE 5.x', but for some
reason it has not been 'published' yet so you get an 'document is
unavailable'
message.  The product did work with Netscape 4.61 and beyond but it was SLOW
to
startup.  After that the interface being a 'navigation tree' was so foreign
to
our users that they were totally disenchanted.  The 'last straw' was the
admin
edition where you had to map all of the tables, etc.. into the end user
layer.
Doing certain common tasks, although possible, was not intuitive (like sub
queries).  The great part was that it did use the referential integrity to
self
join tables, warned when you created a Cartesian query but let you run it
anyway, and it has a damn good query predictor that gets smarter as time
(read
than as number of executions of the query) passes.

What Oracle needs to do here is:

1) Support the MicroSlop browsers most likely by getting that article
published.
2) Train their sales folks, they were going through the first install
right
along with us!!
3) Cut out the bloat.  There is no reason for all the other stuff if all
you
want is Discoverer.
4) Figure out what the 'real' numbers are for disk and semaphore sets
and
publish them.
5) Put back that ability to use the native dictionary as well as the
EUL.
That was the way it was in Discoverer 2000, why the change?
6) Get rid of that 'navigation tree' in favor of the graphical table
layout
diagram.
7) Let end users edit their SQL.  Easiest way to insert sub queries
there
ever was.
8) Improve the graphics capabilities, their a little primitive in the
current version.

In the end, when we told them we had decided against Discoverer 3000 they
were
"not suprised".

Dick Goulet
Reply Separator
Author: David 

Re[2]: RE: RE: historical data

[dgoulet]

 Well when you advertise that it can take 7 business days to restore the 
data fast is not a consideration.

Dick Goulet
-- Reply Separator --
Author: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 5/22/01 3:09 PM

Oh, yes agreed 110%.

But on another note, import/export is not fast.  That is the only reason 
I
mention these other options.
But I agree 100%.  The other difficulty is if you want to import that 
data
into a different format, exports do not help much as you have to import
(Perhaps a big table) then convert it.


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:59 PM
To: Christopher Spence; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Chris,

Humm, did not think that was clear, but!!  We started using export 
to
extract data from our operational data store back in 92 with Oracle 
Version
5 to
tape.  These files, copied now to CD's are still usable with Oracle 8i.
That's
10 years and no problems.  If I can depend on something with Oracle, 
they
maintain a backwards compatibility with the import tool that I haven't 
found
the
end of yet.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/22/2001 2:20 PM

I am not sure what you are saying here, but ok sure.


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:31 PM
To: Christopher Spence; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Chris,

I've been exporting data in a similar way as you since V5.  The 8i
version
of import still reads them without trouble.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   5/22/2001 7:13 AM

Take a look at Thomas's Kytes utility "Data Unloadder" on his website.

Also look at Oriole's PDQ OUT.  Both products will avoid the need to
recreate the wheel.
Also, toad can do this.


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 6:17 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


We have to role off partitions of data every week and I am writing a 
script
to 
write the data to comma separated files using utl_file. What I was 
wondering
is
does anyone have an alternative that is better? I thought about using 
export
but
thought it wouldn't be fun trying to import an export file into the 
latest
version
of Oracle 10 years down the road. 

Thanks, Dave
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Re: Re: Re: bFILES & Recovery Manager

[Cyril Thankappan]

hi

thanx
- Original Message --
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:Wed, 04 Apr 2001 13:24:12 -0800
Subject:Re: Re: bFILES & Recovery Manager 


On 4 Apr 2001, Cyril  Thankappan wrote:

> Hello!
>
>  Does recovery MANAGER support bfiles?
>   if so any idea when Oracle plans to support them?
>
>  THanx
>

I don't know, but I doubt it.

Jared


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_
Chat with your friends as soon as they come online. Get Rediff Bol at
http://bol.rediff.com




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Re: RE: guidance

[rgaffuri]

yeah but alot of employers like to see the certifications. so for most of us who are 
not at the point in our career as some of the senior guys here, we have to do it. Ive 
noticed that you can get more done if your certified too. Adds credibility to what you 
say. Especially with management. 

btw, you dont need to pay for the expensive tuning course. just buy one exam book and 
read the docs. then practice at home and ask questions on the web. 

course is a waste of money. 
> 
> From: "Cary Millsap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/09/26 Fri AM 11:29:40 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: guidance
> 
> How can I say this...
> 
> "Don't confuse learning how to pass the performance tuning exam with
> learning how to make systems faster."
> 
> I'll offer you my Dad's advice on this, which he reiterated frequently
> on our 30-minute drives to and from school:
> 
> "There are two answers to every question your teachers will ask you
> while you're in school. There's the correct answer, and there's the
> answer that the teacher wants. I expect you to know them both."
> 
> 
> Cary Millsap
> Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
> http://www.hotsos.com
> 
> Upcoming events:
> - Performance Diagnosis 101: 10/28 Phoenix, 11/19 Sydney
> - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
> - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 3:05 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> Thanks O'mladen one.
> No really, thanks , good advice.  I am really going hyper about
> performance
> tuning exam.  The course is so vast, and the exam so expensive.
> Honestly how can you test a newbie  in performance tuning ? shouldn't it
> be
> a part of ocm ?
> Instead of putting that riduculous condition of attending Oracle classes
> to
> give ocp they should see how much experience you have before allowing
> you to
> appear for performance tuning exam.  I would be much more prepared for
> the
> exam if I had apprenticed under you for a while.
> Look at me I haven't even read Cary's book ( wait a minute , neither
> have
> many people on this list , thanks to amazon)
> 
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 03:09
> 
> 
> > Realx and feel the force. Only if you open your mind, you can master
> the
> > force.
> >
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 5:05 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: guidance
> > >
> > >
> > > List , I am planning to give my 9i performance tuning exam on
> > > the first . Any advice you all want to give me ? Pretty
> > > nervous about it.  Sure would appreciate your guidance. 
> > >
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting
> services
> > >
> -
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> > > from).  You may also send the HELP command for other
> > > information (like subscribing).
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Note:
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RE: RE: guidance

[Cary Millsap]

Oh, please don't get me wrong: grades are important!

My point is that there's getting perfect grades, and there's knowing
what's going on. And sometimes they're different. I believe you're
better off with both credentials *and* actual horsepower than with just
one or the other.

I don't consider that a cynical view, just a practical one.


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Performance Diagnosis 101: 10/28 Phoenix, 11/19 Sydney
- Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...


-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 10:45 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

yeah but alot of employers like to see the certifications. so for most
of us who are not at the point in our career as some of the senior guys
here, we have to do it. Ive noticed that you can get more done if your
certified too. Adds credibility to what you say. Especially with
management. 

btw, you dont need to pay for the expensive tuning course. just buy one
exam book and read the docs. then practice at home and ask questions on
the web. 

course is a waste of money. 
> 
> From: "Cary Millsap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/09/26 Fri AM 11:29:40 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: guidance
> 
> How can I say this...
> 
> "Don't confuse learning how to pass the performance tuning exam with
> learning how to make systems faster."
> 
> I'll offer you my Dad's advice on this, which he reiterated frequently
> on our 30-minute drives to and from school:
> 
> "There are two answers to every question your teachers will ask you
> while you're in school. There's the correct answer, and there's the
> answer that the teacher wants. I expect you to know them both."
> 
> 
> Cary Millsap
> Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
> http://www.hotsos.com
> 
> Upcoming events:
> - Performance Diagnosis 101: 10/28 Phoenix, 11/19 Sydney
> - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
> - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 3:05 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> Thanks O'mladen one.
> No really, thanks , good advice.  I am really going hyper about
> performance
> tuning exam.  The course is so vast, and the exam so expensive.
> Honestly how can you test a newbie  in performance tuning ? shouldn't
it
> be
> a part of ocm ?
> Instead of putting that riduculous condition of attending Oracle
classes
> to
> give ocp they should see how much experience you have before allowing
> you to
> appear for performance tuning exam.  I would be much more prepared for
> the
> exam if I had apprenticed under you for a while.
> Look at me I haven't even read Cary's book ( wait a minute , neither
> have
> many people on this list , thanks to amazon)
> 
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 03:09
> 
> 
> > Realx and feel the force. Only if you open your mind, you can master
> the
> > force.
> >
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 5:05 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: guidance
> > >
> > >
> > > List , I am planning to give my 9i performance tuning exam on
> > > the first . Any advice you all want to give me ? Pretty
> > > nervous about it.  Sure would appreciate your guidance. 
> > >
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting
> services
> > >
> -
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
> > > and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> > > ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> > > from).  You may also send the HELP command for other
> &

Re: RE: Fragmentation ?

[rgaffuri]

there was a debate on here 2 weeks ago where it was concluded that until you get to 
thousands of extents it just doesnt matter how many you have. 
> 
> From: "VIVEK_SHARMA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/06/13 Fri AM 06:39:36 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Fragmentation ?
> 
> Dennis , List 
> 
> What may be the OTHER forms of fragmentation ?
> 
> What Number of Extents may be considered Critical warranting RE-Organization for 
> Manually Sized Objects existing in LMTs ? 
> 
> Thanks for the great paper . Had read it previously though .
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 8:25 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Vivek
>Make sure you've read "How to Stop Defragmenting and Start Living" 
> http://metalink.oracle.com/cgi-bin/cr/getfile_cr.cgi?239049
> The authors point out that uniform extents stop fragmentation at the
> tablespace level. However they point out that there are other forms of
> fragmentation.
> 
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:15 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> 
> Qs What is the advantage of having dba_tablespaces.ALLOCATION_TYPE =
> "UNIFORM" OVER dba_tablespaces.ALLOCATION_TYPE = "USER" ?
> 
> With ALLOCATION_TYPE = "UNIFORM" , NEXT_EXTENT Size of the Object can NOT be
> Manually defined in the Table Creation Script )> , 
> which is allowed when having allocation_type="USER" . 
> 
> Allocation_type="USER" allows Objects with Different NEXT_EXTENT Sizes to be Created 
> in the SAME LOCALLY managed Tablespace & thus reduces Total Number of Extents for
> the respective Table. Our Application does have Objects of Dissimilar Sizes
> Existing tin the Same Tablespace .
> 
> Does ALLOCATION_TYPE = "UNIFORM" automatically imply NO Fragmentation
> Irrespective of the Number of Extents of the Object (in a Locally Managed
> Tablespace) ? Does it further imply NO further need to Look at Number of
> Extents of an Object in a Locally Managed Tablespace ?
> 
> NOTE Allocation_type can be made = "USER" by using the stored procedures :- 
> dbms_space_admin.tablespace_migrate_from_local /
> dbms_space_admin.tablespace_migrate_to_local
> 
> Am i still Lost in the World of Oracle 7 ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: VIVEK_SHARMA
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: VIVEK_SHARMA
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Autho

RE: RE: Fragmentation ?

[Jamadagni, Rajendra]

Title: RE: RE: Fragmentation ?





Depends ... who you ask ...


If you ask Microsoft
  1. you are fragmented if you have at-least _one_ non-windows server in your corporation
  2. Your thinking is fragmented if you are even _considering_ LINUX


If you ask SCO
  1. You are fragmented if you use AIX
  2. You are fragmented if you read every line of GPL 


If you ask Oracle Experts
  1. Some will say "Do you have a problem? if none, don't worry"
  2. Some will say "More than x extents is bad" but X varies from 2 to 1024 to 4096
  3. Some will advise use LMT with Uniform extents and live happily there after.


I could think of some political ones, but this is a technical list ...
TGIF
Raj

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !


> 
> From: "VIVEK_SHARMA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/06/13 Fri AM 06:39:36 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Fragmentation ?
> 
> Dennis , List 
> What may be the OTHER forms of fragmentation ?
> What Number of Extents may be considered Critical warranting RE-Organization for Manually Sized Objects existing in LMTs ? 

> Thanks for the great paper . Had read it previously though .
> Thanks
> 



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RE: RE: Fragmentation ?

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

Well said. For people that can only comprehend a simple solution, it is much
more comfortable to have a single answer. The old "reorganize to a single
extent" was always easy to understand. Along the way as a side-effect it
cured other types of fragmentation, but if the underlying causes of the
fragmentation are understood, then fewer reorganizations would be needed.
   The paper "Stop Defragmenting . . ." isn't one of those you can skim and
then set aside. It needs to be intensively studied. LMT isn't completely
foolproof, so you need to understand the underlying premises. As to the
types of fragmentation, read the introduction. It explains which chapter
discusses which type of fragmentation.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 9:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


there was a debate on here 2 weeks ago where it was concluded that until you
get to thousands of extents it just doesnt matter how many you have. 
> 
> From: "VIVEK_SHARMA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/06/13 Fri AM 06:39:36 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Fragmentation ?
> 
> Dennis , List 
> 
> What may be the OTHER forms of fragmentation ?
> 
> What Number of Extents may be considered Critical warranting
RE-Organization for Manually Sized Objects existing in LMTs ? 
> 
> Thanks for the great paper . Had read it previously though .
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 8:25 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Vivek
>Make sure you've read "How to Stop Defragmenting and Start Living" 
> http://metalink.oracle.com/cgi-bin/cr/getfile_cr.cgi?239049
> The authors point out that uniform extents stop fragmentation at the
> tablespace level. However they point out that there are other forms of
> fragmentation.
> 
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:15 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> 
> Qs What is the advantage of having dba_tablespaces.ALLOCATION_TYPE =
> "UNIFORM" OVER dba_tablespaces.ALLOCATION_TYPE = "USER" ?
> 
> With ALLOCATION_TYPE = "UNIFORM" , NEXT_EXTENT Size of the Object can NOT
be
> Manually defined in the Table Creation Script )> , 
> which is allowed when having allocation_type="USER" . 
> 
> Allocation_type="USER" allows Objects with Different NEXT_EXTENT Sizes to
be Created 
> in the SAME LOCALLY managed Tablespace & thus reduces Total Number of
Extents for
> the respective Table. Our Application does have Objects of Dissimilar
Sizes
> Existing tin the Same Tablespace .
> 
> Does ALLOCATION_TYPE = "UNIFORM" automatically imply NO Fragmentation
> Irrespective of the Number of Extents of the Object (in a Locally Managed
> Tablespace) ? Does it further imply NO further need to Look at Number of
> Extents of an Object in a Locally Managed Tablespace ?
> 
> NOTE Allocation_type can be made = "USER" by using the stored procedures
:- 
> dbms_space_admin.tablespace_migrate_from_local /
> dbms_space_admin.tablespace_migrate_to_local
> 
> Am i still Lost in the World of Oracle 7 ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: VIVEK_SHARMA
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be

RE: RE: Performance

[Stephane Faroult]

Ramon,

   Whatever the plan, your stats border on the insignificant (I mean these are very 
small values and it shouldn't even take 2mn to run). Set TIMED_STATISTICS to TRUE if 
this is not already done and check system events. There is something unorthodox going 
on - not purely a matter of SQL processing.

>- --- Original Message --- -
>From: "Ramon E. Estevez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:30:37
>
>Stephane,
>
>I continue having the same problem, in LAB 2
>minutes and in PRODUCTION
>forever. I made the changes you indicate me.  
>
>This is the explain plan in LAB, NO STATISTICS with
>data from yesterday
>
>
>Execution Plan
>   0  SELECT STATEMENT Optimizer=CHOOSE
>   10   SORT (GROUP BY)
>   21 NESTED LOOPS
>   32   VIEW
>   43 SORT (GROUP BY)
>   54   TABLE ACCESS (BY INDEX ROWID)
>OF 'TCON_ACUM'
>   65 INDEX (RANGE SCAN) OF
>'IDX_ACUM_02' (NON-UNIQUE)
>   72   TABLE ACCESS (BY INDEX ROWID) OF
>'TCON_ACUM'
>   87 INDEX (RANGE SCAN) OF
>'IDX_ACUM_02' (NON-UNIQUE)
>
>
>
>
>Statistics
>  0  recursive calls
>  0  db block gets
>311  consistent gets
>  0  physical reads
>  0  redo size
>353  bytes sent via SQL*Net to client
>   1159  bytes received via SQL*Net from client
>
>  3  SQL*Net roundtrips to/from client
>  2  sorts (memory)
>  0  sorts (disk)
>  1  rows processed
>
>-
>This the explain plan in PRODUCTION.
>
>
>Execution Plan
>   0  SELECT STATEMENT Optimizer=CHOOSE (Cost=9
>Card=1 Bytes=53)
>   10   SORT (GROUP BY) (Cost=9 Card=1
>Bytes=53)
>   21 NESTED LOOPS (Cost=7 Card=1 Bytes=53)
>
>   32   VIEW (Cost=6 Card=1 Bytes=15)
>   43 SORT (GROUP BY) (Cost=6 Card=1
>Bytes=26)
>   54   TABLE ACCESS (FULL) OF
>'TCON_ACUM' (Cost=4 Card=1
>  Bytes=26)
>
>   62   TABLE ACCESS (BY INDEX ROWID) OF
>'TCON_ACUM' (Cost=2 C
>  ard=1 Bytes=38)
>
>   76 INDEX (RANGE SCAN) OF
>'IDX_ACUM_02' (NON-UNIQUE) (Co
>  st=3 Card=1)
>
>
>
>
>
>Statistics
>  0  recursive calls
>  4  db block gets
>108  consistent gets
>  0  physical reads
>  0  redo size
>245  bytes sent via SQL*Net to client
>981  bytes received via SQL*Net from client
>
>  3  SQL*Net roundtrips to/from client
>  2  sorts (memory)
>  0  sorts (disk)
>  1  rows processed
>
>Ramon E. Estevez
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>809-535-8994
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Stephane Faroult
>Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:16 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Ramon,
>
>I have had a closer look at your coe. My gut
>feeling is that 
> 
>SELECT MAX(A.ACM_FECACUM),
>   Nvl(A.ACM_ACUMDBANT,0) -
>   nvl(A.ACM_ACUMCRANT,0) +
>   nvl(A.ACM_ACUMDB,0)-
>   nvl(A.ACM_ACUMCR,0)
>into   vFechaIni, vSaldoAnt
>from  tcon_acum A,
>  (select ACM_Oficina,
>  ACM_Moneda,
> 
>nvl(max(TRUNC(ACM_FECACUM)), '2001/01/01')
>MAXFECACUM
>   FROM TCON_ACUM
>   WHERE
> Acm_codigo   = pCuenta
>  AND
> ACM_Sucursal = i
>   GROUP BY ACM_Oficina,
>ACM_Moneda) T
>where
>   A.acm_codigo= pCuenta   
>  AND
>   A.acm_sucursal  = i 
> AND
>   T.ACM_Oficina  = A.ACM_Oficina 
>AND
>   T.ACM_Moneda   = A.ACM_MOneda
>AND
>  TRUNC(A.ACM_FECACUM)  =
>T.MAXFECACUM
> GROUP BY Nvl(A.ACM_ACUMDBANT,0),
>nvl(A.ACM_ACUMCRANT,0),
>nvl(A.ACM_ACUMDB,0),   
>nvl(A.ACM_ACUMCR,0);
>   nvl(A.ACM_ACUMDB,0),nvl(A.ACM_ACUMCR,0);
>
>
>would return the same thing as what you have, only
>faster. On first
>readin I had not noticed that you IN (SELECT ...)
>was correlated. Ouch.
>If ACM_CODIGO and ACM_SUCURSAL are indexed (and the
>index is
>discriminant enough), and if (ACM_OFICINA,
>ACM_MONEDA) are also
>separately indexed (with the same restriction as
>before), it should run
>reasonably fast.
>
>"Ramon E. Estevez" wrote:
>> 
>> Tks Stephane and Madlen,
>> 
>> Still the same problem.
>> 
>> I added the hint /*+ FIRST_ROWS */ to the query
>that invoke the 
>> function and it changed from FTS to use Index but
>still have the same 
>> problem.  I added the same hint to the function
>and Nothing.
>> 
>> I checked the v$session_wait during the execution
>of the procedure and
>
>> the only thing that Was waiting was SQL NET TO
>CLIENT MESSAGE.
>> 
>> Ramon E. Estevez
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 809-535-8994
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> Stephane Faroult
>> Sent: Fri

RE: Re: Migration

[Stephane Faroult]

It raises an interesting question. As of today, we have datafiles which are OS 
dependent and _not_ binary compatible from one system to another. We upgrade to 10g 
and it will become magically binary compatible. Which means that the upgrade process 
will do more intimate things than updating some file header block, creating a couple 
of new tables in the data dictionary and recreating view.

Has anybody tried to upgrade from 9.x to 10g yet, on some database of decent size ?

SF 

>- --- Original Message --- -
>From: "Yechiel Adar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 05:54:25
>
>Wait for 10g. They say that you could just copy the
>datafiles and them plug
>them in to he new database, even across platforms.
>
>Yechiel Adar
>Mehish
>- Original Message -
>To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:24 AM
>
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> Could someone please help me?
>>
>> Assumption situation - Platform migration of
>Oracle DW on Oracle DB (data
>> volume 3.5 TB) from HP-UX to IBM-AIX
>>
>>   1.. DB migration; it is correct to use
>Export/Import technique/method in
>> the above assumption?
>>   2..  Witch is the time frame in a worst case
>for this (how many hours,
>> days or weeks!!)?
>>   3.. It is possible to apply the mentioned
>technique or some other (witch
>> one?) in uptime, totally or partially?
>>   4.. Witches are the main tasks to consider in a
>planning schedule?
>>   5.. Witches are the time frames associated to
>these tasks?
>> Thanks
>> Arm>o Teles
>>
>>
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Re: Re: Migration

[Tanel Poder]

You can't just copy over the files with os commands and hope that Oracle
will somehow recognize them.
You have to use RMANs new convert tablespace command to do the byte order
conversion.

Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 4:54 PM


> It raises an interesting question. As of today, we have datafiles which
are OS dependent and _not_ binary compatible from one system to another. We
upgrade to 10g and it will become magically binary compatible. Which means
that the upgrade process will do more intimate things than updating some
file header block, creating a couple of new tables in the data dictionary
and recreating view.
>
> Has anybody tried to upgrade from 9.x to 10g yet, on some database of
decent size ?
>
> SF
>
> >- --- Original Message --- -
> >From: "Yechiel Adar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 05:54:25
> >
> >Wait for 10g. They say that you could just copy the
> >datafiles and them plug
> >them in to he new database, even across platforms.
> >
> >Yechiel Adar
> >Mehish
> >- Original Message -
> >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:24 AM
> >
> >
> >> Hi List,
> >>
> >> Could someone please help me?
> >>
> >> Assumption situation - Platform migration of
> >Oracle DW on Oracle DB (data
> >> volume 3.5 TB) from HP-UX to IBM-AIX
> >>
> >>   1.. DB migration; it is correct to use
> >Export/Import technique/method in
> >> the above assumption?
> >>   2..  Witch is the time frame in a worst case
> >for this (how many hours,
> >> days or weeks!!)?
> >>   3.. It is possible to apply the mentioned
> >technique or some other (witch
> >> one?) in uptime, totally or partially?
> >>   4.. Witches are the main tasks to consider in a
> >planning schedule?
> >>   5.. Witches are the time frames associated to
> >these tasks?
> >> Thanks
> >> Arm>o Teles
> >>
> >>
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Stephane Faroult
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>


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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Tanel Poder
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Re: Migration

[Carel-Jan Engel]

Hi Stephane,
The way you put it here would mean that the internal format of the
tablespaces will be big/little-endian independant.
That would mean either an extra amount of overhead in the low level IO,
or
Oracle-specific arithmatic everywhere in the  kernel. I doubt
whether
Oracle would do that. It might (will!) cause severe performance
penalties.
A few weeks ago I had an interview with Chuck Rozwat. I asked him
this
specific question. He was quite convinced telling me that the
transport mechanism (data pump?) performs the HW-dependent
conversions
whenever you transfer a tablespace from one platform to another.
He told me also that the HW-dependant differences will remain in
place,
and it isn't possible to have a R/O tablespace opened simultaneously
by
instances running on different platforms. (Not even Windoze/Linux
combined)
So the binary incompatability will remain in place.
Alas, I haven't got a beta version, so I haven't been able to test it yet
:(
Regards, Carel-Jan
At 06:54 10-11-03 -0800, you wrote:
It raises an interesting question.
As of today, we have datafiles which are OS dependent and _not_ binary
compatible from one system to another. We upgrade to 10g and it will
become magically binary compatible. Which means that the upgrade process
will do more intimate things than updating some file header block,
creating a couple of new tables in the data dictionary and recreating
view.
Has anybody tried to upgrade from 9.x to 10g yet, on some database of
decent size ?
SF 
>- --- Original Message --- -
>From: "Yechiel Adar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 05:54:25
>
>Wait for 10g. They say that you could just copy the
>datafiles and them plug
>them in to he new database, even across platforms.
>
>Yechiel Adar
>Mehish
>- Original Message -
>To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:24 AM
>
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> Could someone please help me?
>>
>> Assumption situation - Platform migration of
>Oracle DW on Oracle DB (data
>> volume 3.5 TB) from HP-UX to IBM-AIX
>>
>>   1.. DB migration; it is correct to use
>Export/Import technique/method in
>> the above assumption?
>>   2..  Witch is the time frame in a worst
case
>for this (how many hours,
>> days or weeks!!)?
>>   3.. It is possible to apply the mentioned
>technique or some other (witch
>> one?) in uptime, totally or partially?
>>   4.. Witches are the main tasks to consider in 
a
>planning schedule?
>>   5.. Witches are the time frames associated to
>these tasks?
>> Thanks
>> Arm>o Teles
>>
>>
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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may
also send the HELP command for other information (like
subscribing).

Re: Re: log_archive_dest_2

[bhabani s pradhan]

Yes. It worked..

Thanks a lot

regards
b s pradhan

---


On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 Tanel Poder wrote :
>Try archive log stop; and archive log start; after setting the parameters..
>
>Tanel.
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > When I set log_archive_dest_2 to a valid local destination
> > Dynamically on 8.1.7.0 it is not generating the archive files..
> > It is generating the archive files on on log_archive_dest_1
> >
> > I even tried with the following settings ..
> > 1] both log_archive_dest_1 and log_archive_dest_2 made MANDATORY
> > 2] log_archive_min_succed_dest = 2
> > 2] log_archive_process = 10
> >
> > Still it is not creating archives in the second location.
> >
> > Am i missing something?
> >
> > Thanks and Regards
> > B S Pradhan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

Re: RE: PERL?

[ryan_oracle]

what do you mean by sophisticated I/O?
> 
> From: "Cary Millsap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/12/07 Sun PM 11:59:25 EST
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: PERL?
> 
> You'll get much more comprehensive answers than mine, but a few huge
> motives for me are.
> 
>  
> 
> -  You can't do I/O-especially sophisticated interactive
> I/O-conveniently in SQL*Plus or PL/SQL.
> 
> -  More generally, SQL restricts your viewpoint to what's inside
> the database. As a performance analyst, I need a language in which I can
> do text processing, mathematical processing, and especially experiments
> with the same OS calls that Oracle uses. You can even attach directly to
> the Oracle SGA with Perl, where you can get x$ information without using
> SQL. (I don't do it, but it can be done.)
> 
> -  Perl regular expression processing is spectacular compared to
> anything else out there; this is critical for text processing (lexical
> analysis and parsing).
> 
> -  Perl is more portable, more easily extensible, and better
> supported with lots of interesting open source libraries than Unix
> shells.
> 
>  
> 
> Cary Millsap
> Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
> http://www.hotsos.com
> 
> Upcoming events:
> - Performance <http://www.hotsos.com/training/PD101.html>  Diagnosis
> 101: 12/16 Detroit, 1/27 Atlanta
> - SQL Optimization 101: 12/8 Dallas, 2/16 Dallas
> - Hotsos Symposium 2004 <http://www.hotsos.com/events/symposium/2004> :
> March 7-10 Dallas
> - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
> 
> -Original Message-
> KENNETH JANUSZ
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 9:34 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
>  
> 
> I've read a lot about PERL on this list.  And, I am wondering what can
> you do with PERL that you cannot do with SQL*Plus, PL/SQL or Unix shell
> scripts?  
> 
>  
> 
> Any information will be greatly appreciated.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks much,
> 
> Ken Janusz, CPIM
> 
> 
> 









You’ll get much more comprehensive
answers than mine, but a few huge motives for me are…

 

- 
You can’t do I/O—especially
sophisticated interactive I/O—conveniently in SQL*Plus or PL/SQL.

- 
More generally, SQL
restricts your viewpoint to what’s inside the database. As a performance
analyst, I need a language in which I can do text processing, mathematical
processing, and especially experiments with the same OS calls that Oracle uses.
You can even attach directly to the Oracle SGA with Perl, where you can get x$
information without using SQL. (I don’t do it, but it can be done.)

- 
Perl regular _expression_ processing
is spectacular compared to anything else out there; this is critical for text
processing (lexical analysis and parsing).

- 
Perl is more portable,
more easily extensible, and better supported with lots of interesting open
source libraries than Unix shells.

 



Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Performance
Diagnosis 101: 12/16 Detroit, 1/27 Atlanta
- SQL Optimization 101: 12/8 Dallas, 2/16 Dallas
- Hotsos Symposium 2004:
March 7–10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule
details...



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH
JANUSZ
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003
9:34 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: PERL?

 



I've read a lot about PERL on this list.  And, I am
wondering what can you do with PERL that you cannot do with SQL*Plus, PL/SQL or
Unix shell scripts?  





 





Any information will be greatly appreciated.





 





Thanks much,





Ken Janusz, CPIM

Re: RE: PERL?

[Mladen Gogala]

Say, handling screen forms, sockets and pipes would be considered rather 
sophisticated IO, don't you think? Generally speaking, PL/SQL can only
do simpleton I/O (a.k.a doofus I/O) while perl is much more sophisticated

On 12/08/2003 08:09:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> what do you mean by sophisticated I/O?
> > 
> > From: "Cary Millsap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2003/12/07 Sun PM 11:59:25 EST
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: RE: PERL?
> > 
> > You'll get much more comprehensive answers than mine, but a few huge
> > motives for me are.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > -  You can't do I/O-especially sophisticated interactive
> > I/O-conveniently in SQL*Plus or PL/SQL.
> > 
> > -  More generally, SQL restricts your viewpoint to what's inside
> > the database. As a performance analyst, I need a language in which I can
> > do text processing, mathematical processing, and especially experiments
> > with the same OS calls that Oracle uses. You can even attach directly to
> > the Oracle SGA with Perl, where you can get x$ information without using
> > SQL. (I don't do it, but it can be done.)
> > 
> > -  Perl regular expression processing is spectacular compared to
> > anything else out there; this is critical for text processing (lexical
> > analysis and parsing).
> > 
> > -  Perl is more portable, more easily extensible, and better
> > supported with lots of interesting open source libraries than Unix
> > shells.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Cary Millsap
> > Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
> > http://www.hotsos.com
> > 
> > Upcoming events:
> > - Performance <http://www.hotsos.com/training/PD101.html>  Diagnosis
> > 101: 12/16 Detroit, 1/27 Atlanta
> > - SQL Optimization 101: 12/8 Dallas, 2/16 Dallas
> > - Hotsos Symposium 2004 <http://www.hotsos.com/events/symposium/2004> :
> > March 7-10 Dallas
> > - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > KENNETH JANUSZ
> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 9:34 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I've read a lot about PERL on this list.  And, I am wondering what can
> > you do with PERL that you cannot do with SQL*Plus, PL/SQL or Unix shell
> > scripts?  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Any information will be greatly appreciated.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Thanks much,
> > 
> > Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA



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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: RE: PERL?

[Cary Millsap]

By “more sophisticated I/O,” I
mean things like: read and write files anywhere from a byte at a time to a
whole file at a time, do buffered C-like stuff (getc, ungetc), read and write
directly with compressed output, get and set tty attributes, do graphics, and
so on.

 



Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Performance
Diagnosis 101: 12/16 Detroit, 1/27 Atlanta
- SQL Optimization 101: 12/8 Dallas, 2/16 Dallas
- Hotsos Symposium 2004:
March 7–10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule
details...



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003
7:09 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: RE: PERL?

 

You’ll get much
more comprehensive answers than mine, but a few huge motives for me are…

 

-  You can’t do I/O—especially sophisticated interactive
I/O—conveniently in SQL*Plus or PL/SQL.

-  More generally, SQL restricts your viewpoint to what’s inside
the database. As a performance analyst, I need a language in which I can do
text processing, mathematical processing, and especially experiments with the
same OS calls that Oracle uses. You can even attach directly to the Oracle SGA
with Perl, where you can get x$ information without using SQL. (I don’t
do it, but it can be done.)

-  Perl regular _expression_ processing is spectacular compared to
anything else out there; this is critical for text processing (lexical analysis
and parsing).

-  Perl is more portable, more easily extensible, and better supported
with lots of interesting open source libraries than Unix shells.

 



Cary
Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Performance
Diagnosis 101: 12/16 Detroit, 1/27 Atlanta
- SQL Optimization 101: 12/8 Dallas, 2/16 Dallas
- Hotsos Symposium 2004:
March 7–10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule
details...



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH
JANUSZ
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003
9:34 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: PERL?

 



I've read a lot about PERL on this list.  And, I am
wondering what can you do with PERL that you cannot do with SQL*Plus, PL/SQL or
Unix shell scripts?  





 





Any information will be greatly appreciated.





 





Thanks much,





Ken Janusz, CPIM

Re: Re: Grid

[rgaffuri]

how different is the concept of a grid from RAC?
> 
> From: "Tanel Poder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/08/25 Mon PM 03:39:30 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Grid
> 
> In my understanding, Oracle 10 won't support the "real" grid. Instead it'll
> probably a concept of having singe huge database on a huge storage array/SAN
> and having a bunch of cheap (linux) servers in RAC which can then distribute
> their workload automatically and using service_names mechanism they can
> transparently allocate/deallocate nodes for some specific work.
> 
> This is only an assumption, I haven't seen or touched 10g myself, even
> though I would like to :)
> 
> Tanel.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 9:09 PM
> 
> 
> > While I was cleaning up the other day, I noticed a magazine sticking out
> of
> > the middle (sadly, closer to the top) of my still-to-be-read list. The
> cover
> > story of Physics Today (Feb. 2002) is "The Power of Grid Computing". It is
> a
> > pretty good review article on the subject. If anyone is interested, the
> URL
> > is http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-55/iss-2/p42.html
> >
> > The major point seems to be that the grid is simply just a way to share
> > distributed resources. However, utilizing these resources needs an
> > infrastructure in place. It "requires uniform mechanisms for such critical
> > tasks as creating and managing services on remote computers, supporting
> > single sign-on to distributed resources, transferring large datasets at
> high
> > speeds, forming large distributed virtual communities, and maintaining
> > information about the existence, state, and usage policies of community
> > resources...Providing the infrastructure and tools that make large-scale,
> > secure resource sharing possible and straight-forward is the Grid's raison
> > d'etre."
> >
> > In addition, this means that computing resources can be parcelled out like
> a
> > utility. If you need extra CPU, buy it and use it from your utility when
> you
> > need it. You don't need to own the hardware for your peak load. It also
> > becomes easier to share data and applications between colleagues at
> > different locations.
> >
> > I can see how databases are part of this picture, but I am not sure how
> > Oracle will try and place itself at the center of this trend (unless they
> > mangle the concept of Grid in the process).
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Henry Poras
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Tanel Poder
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Re: Re: Grid

[Tanel Poder]

Don't know more than I wrote. And I even don't *know* that :)

I guess we'll find out in September.

Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 10:54 PM


> how different is the concept of a grid from RAC?
> >
> > From: "Tanel Poder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2003/08/25 Mon PM 03:39:30 EDT
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: Grid
> >
> > In my understanding, Oracle 10 won't support the "real" grid. Instead
it'll
> > probably a concept of having singe huge database on a huge storage
array/SAN
> > and having a bunch of cheap (linux) servers in RAC which can then
distribute
> > their workload automatically and using service_names mechanism they can
> > transparently allocate/deallocate nodes for some specific work.
> >
> > This is only an assumption, I haven't seen or touched 10g myself, even
> > though I would like to :)
> >
> > Tanel.
> >
> > - Original Message - 
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 9:09 PM
> >
> >
> > > While I was cleaning up the other day, I noticed a magazine sticking
out
> > of
> > > the middle (sadly, closer to the top) of my still-to-be-read list. The
> > cover
> > > story of Physics Today (Feb. 2002) is "The Power of Grid Computing".
It is
> > a
> > > pretty good review article on the subject. If anyone is interested,
the
> > URL
> > > is http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-55/iss-2/p42.html
> > >
> > > The major point seems to be that the grid is simply just a way to
share
> > > distributed resources. However, utilizing these resources needs an
> > > infrastructure in place. It "requires uniform mechanisms for such
critical
> > > tasks as creating and managing services on remote computers,
supporting
> > > single sign-on to distributed resources, transferring large datasets
at
> > high
> > > speeds, forming large distributed virtual communities, and maintaining
> > > information about the existence, state, and usage policies of
community
> > > resources...Providing the infrastructure and tools that make
large-scale,
> > > secure resource sharing possible and straight-forward is the Grid's
raison
> > > d'etre."
> > >
> > > In addition, this means that computing resources can be parcelled out
like
> > a
> > > utility. If you need extra CPU, buy it and use it from your utility
when
> > you
> > > need it. You don't need to own the hardware for your peak load. It
also
> > > becomes easier to share data and applications between colleagues at
> > > different locations.
> > >
> > > I can see how databases are part of this picture, but I am not sure
how
> > > Oracle will try and place itself at the center of this trend (unless
they
> > > mangle the concept of Grid in the process).
> > >
> > > Henry
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > -- 
> > > Author: Henry Poras
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > > -
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Tanel Poder
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> >

Re: Re: Grid

[rgaffuri]

at the reston,va office there will be a talk at the end of next month about the new 
RAC features in version 10 of oracle. dont know how technical it is. not familiar with 
the persons name. might be a sale pitch. 

in case anyone is interested. natcap.org i believe is the site. 
> 
> From: "Tanel Poder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/08/25 Mon PM 04:24:34 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Re: Grid
> 
> Don't know more than I wrote. And I even don't *know* that :)
> 
> I guess we'll find out in September.
> 
> Tanel.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 10:54 PM
> 
> 
> > how different is the concept of a grid from RAC?
> > >
> > > From: "Tanel Poder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: 2003/08/25 Mon PM 03:39:30 EDT
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Subject: Re: Grid
> > >
> > > In my understanding, Oracle 10 won't support the "real" grid. Instead
> it'll
> > > probably a concept of having singe huge database on a huge storage
> array/SAN
> > > and having a bunch of cheap (linux) servers in RAC which can then
> distribute
> > > their workload automatically and using service_names mechanism they can
> > > transparently allocate/deallocate nodes for some specific work.
> > >
> > > This is only an assumption, I haven't seen or touched 10g myself, even
> > > though I would like to :)
> > >
> > > Tanel.
> > >
> > > - Original Message - 
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 9:09 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > > While I was cleaning up the other day, I noticed a magazine sticking
> out
> > > of
> > > > the middle (sadly, closer to the top) of my still-to-be-read list. The
> > > cover
> > > > story of Physics Today (Feb. 2002) is "The Power of Grid Computing".
> It is
> > > a
> > > > pretty good review article on the subject. If anyone is interested,
> the
> > > URL
> > > > is http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-55/iss-2/p42.html
> > > >
> > > > The major point seems to be that the grid is simply just a way to
> share
> > > > distributed resources. However, utilizing these resources needs an
> > > > infrastructure in place. It "requires uniform mechanisms for such
> critical
> > > > tasks as creating and managing services on remote computers,
> supporting
> > > > single sign-on to distributed resources, transferring large datasets
> at
> > > high
> > > > speeds, forming large distributed virtual communities, and maintaining
> > > > information about the existence, state, and usage policies of
> community
> > > > resources...Providing the infrastructure and tools that make
> large-scale,
> > > > secure resource sharing possible and straight-forward is the Grid's
> raison
> > > > d'etre."
> > > >
> > > > In addition, this means that computing resources can be parcelled out
> like
> > > a
> > > > utility. If you need extra CPU, buy it and use it from your utility
> when
> > > you
> > > > need it. You don't need to own the hardware for your peak load. It
> also
> > > > becomes easier to share data and applications between colleagues at
> > > > different locations.
> > > >
> > > > I can see how databases are part of this picture, but I am not sure
> how
> > > > Oracle will try and place itself at the center of this trend (unless
> they
> > > > mangle the concept of Grid in the process).
> > > >
> > > > Henry
> > > >
> > > > -- 
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > -- 
> > > > Author: Henry Poras
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > > > -
> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > > to: [EMAIL PROTE

Re: Re: Grid

[Jared . Still]

It is a *lot* different.

What RAC is supposed to do for an application ( i.e. run on a 
node, you don't know/don't care which one ), GC does for apps
in general.

It's still vapor ware in many respects.  Look up Sun N1, they claim
to be making use of it internally.  The pieces for it are only partly
in place though.

http://wwws.sun.com/software/learnabout/n1/

It's still a few years out I think.

Jared








<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 08/25/2003 12:54 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

        
        To:        Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        cc:        
        Subject:        Re: Re: Grid


how different is the concept of a grid from RAC?
> 
> From: "Tanel Poder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/08/25 Mon PM 03:39:30 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Grid
> 
> In my understanding, Oracle 10 won't support the "real" grid. Instead it'll
> probably a concept of having singe huge database on a huge storage array/SAN
> and having a bunch of cheap (linux) servers in RAC which can then distribute
> their workload automatically and using service_names mechanism they can
> transparently allocate/deallocate nodes for some specific work.
> 
> This is only an assumption, I haven't seen or touched 10g myself, even
> though I would like to :)
> 
> Tanel.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 9:09 PM
> 
> 
> > While I was cleaning up the other day, I noticed a magazine sticking out
> of
> > the middle (sadly, closer to the top) of my still-to-be-read list. The
> cover
> > story of Physics Today (Feb. 2002) is "The Power of Grid Computing". It is
> a
> > pretty good review article on the subject. If anyone is interested, the
> URL
> > is http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-55/iss-2/p42.html
> >
> > The major point seems to be that the grid is simply just a way to share
> > distributed resources. However, utilizing these resources needs an
> > infrastructure in place. It "requires uniform mechanisms for such critical
> > tasks as creating and managing services on remote computers, supporting
> > single sign-on to distributed resources, transferring large datasets at
> high
> > speeds, forming large distributed virtual communities, and maintaining
> > information about the existence, state, and usage policies of community
> > resources...Providing the infrastructure and tools that make large-scale,
> > secure resource sharing possible and straight-forward is the Grid's raison
> > d'etre."
> >
> > In addition, this means that computing resources can be parcelled out like
> a
> > utility. If you need extra CPU, buy it and use it from your utility when
> you
> > need it. You don't need to own the hardware for your peak load. It also
> > becomes easier to share data and applications between colleagues at
> > different locations.
> >
> > I can see how databases are part of this picture, but I am not sure how
> > Oracle will try and place itself at the center of this trend (unless they
> > mangle the concept of Grid in the process).
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Henry Poras
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services    -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California        -- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Tanel Poder
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services    -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California        -- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
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> (or the name of mail

RE: RE: Grid

[Stephane Faroult]

Remember the 'single instance' ?

>- --- Original Message --- -
>From: "Robson, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 01:49:27
>
>Although I haven't got into the technical details
>of 'The Grid' (and thanks
>for this article - I shall read it), but
>nevertheless I have a haunting
>sense of deja vu. Remember all the hype over
>distributed computing that
>Oracle generated? Remember the key part
>client-server was of that? Remember
>what Ellison said about that? ('The biggest mistake
>we ever made' - I was
>there, I heard him say it). So. I'm just
>wondering how this particular
>circle is going to be squared...
>
>peter
>edinburgh
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 7:10 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>While I was cleaning up the other day, I noticed a
>magazine sticking out of
>the middle (sadly, closer to the top) of my
>still-to-be-read list. The cover
>story of Physics Today (Feb. 2002) is "The Power of
>Grid Computing". It is a
>pretty good review article on the subject. If
>anyone is interested, the URL
>is http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-55/iss-2/p42.html
>
>The major point seems to be that the grid is simply
>just a way to share
>distributed resources. However, utilizing these
>resources needs an
>infrastructure in place. It "requires uniform
>mechanisms for such critical
>tasks as creating and managing services on remote
>computers, supporting
>single sign-on to distributed resources,
>transferring large datasets at high
>speeds, forming large distributed virtual
>communities, and maintaining
>information about the existence, state, and usage
>policies of community
>resources...Providing the infrastructure and tools
>that make large-scale,
>secure resource sharing possible and
>straight-forward is the Grid's raison
>d'etre."
>
>In addition, this means that computing resources
>can be parcelled out like a
>utility. If you need extra CPU, buy it and use it
>from your utility when you
>need it. You don't need to own the hardware for
>your peak load. It also
>becomes easier to share data and applications
>between colleagues at
>different locations.
>
>I can see how databases are part of this picture,
>but I am not sure how
>Oracle will try and place itself at the center of
>this trend (unless they
>mangle the concept of Grid in the process).
>
>Henry
>
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Re: Grid

[rgaffuri]

atm is obsolete. cheap is relative. i didnt mean its $20/month or comparable to 
getting AOL. alot of mid-large businesses have them. 
> 
> From: "Tanel Poder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/08/28 Thu AM 03:14:26 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Grid
> 
> Hi!
> 
> It's still quite hard to believe, that it could be anywhere near cheap. Even
> building 10Gbit locatl Ethernet is currently expensive. You would need
> 16*655Mb ATM connections for that to do over long range...
> 
> Tanel.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 6:44 AM
> 
> 
> > no not over the atlantic. its from DC to Boston.
> > - Original Message -
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 7:39 PM
> >
> >
> > > 10GB over Atlantic?
> > >
> > > This does cost a lot. At least I assume so, why the heck am I sticking
> to
> > > 512kb in my home then?
> > >
> > > Tanel.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:54 AM
> > >
> > >
> > > > i havent seen much about internet 2. i didnt realize there was
> anything
> > in
> > > > production yet. do you know where i can find more info on it?
> > > > 2.3 GBs isnt really that much for a connect anymore. its not that
> > > expensive
> > > > to get 10GB connections or more.
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 5:44 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > We've been talking of Grid computing here since either late 1999
> or
> > > > early
> > > > > 2000.  The computing for our main experiment was designed before the
> > > Grid
> > > > > was contemplated.  Still we have implemented some of the middleware
> > > > needed,
> > > > > and build methods of authentication and authorization, and
> > participated
> > > in
> > > > > Grid experiments. We have also been pushing the ability to transfer
> > > large
> > > > > amounts of data.  The latest effort: 2.3 GB per second between the
> > local
> > > > > internet hub and Geneva Switzerland over Internet 2.  This is vital
> to
> > > > make
> > > > > the Grid work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yep, you'll probably have huge amounts of data coming in when CERN
> > gets
> > > > > their large hadron collider online in 2007 ;)
> > > > > Btw, AFAIK, they're using Oracle...
> > > > >
> > > > > Tanel.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > > --
> > > > > Author: Tanel Poder
> > > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >
> > > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > > > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting
> services
> > > >
> > -
> > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Ryan
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
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> > > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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> > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messa

RE: Re: test

[Rajesh Dayal]

I am really happy to see such responses for my test !! 

BTW, I was just checking whether I have successfully been un-subscribed for 
my old mail-id and subscribed with new one. 

But disappointed to see that un-subscription mail reached much later than test
Mail (which actually I sent before).

And yes, will silently be watching the testG launch through net. My Damagement
Doesn't think it's worth attending these launches. ;-((

Regards,

Rajesh Dayal
Senior Oracle DBA (OCP 8,8i,9i)
International Information Technology Company LLC


 -Original Message-
Sent:   Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:        Fwd: Re: test

No, no, no, no. You just live on the wrong side of the world, these days.

TestG is old, gone, dead. It's Test/g/ now. Has been for a couple of 
weeks. Notice the italics. Don't make users more ten'se than neccessary.

The first one who sees a production version of Tense/g /will forever be 
known as the g-spotter.

Connor McDonald wrote:

>I would not bother to use Test, because TestG is
>coming out very shortly. A lot of the Test programs
>have not been Test'd on version TestG which tends to
>make users a little testy
>
>:-)
>
> --- Mogens_Nørgaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I
>also need to test.
>  
>
>>Mogens
>>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Search the web by email! mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>adding your search to the subject line like this:
>>>search summer vacations
>>>
>>>
>>>test
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>-- 
>>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
>>http://www.orafaq.net
>>-- 
>>Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?=
>>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
>>http://www.fatcity.com
>>San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
>>hosting services
>>
>>
>>
>-
>  
>
>>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
>>E-Mail message
>>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
>>'ListGuru') and in
>>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
>>ORACLE-L
>>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
>>from).  You may
>>also send the HELP command for other information
>>(like subscribing). 
>>
>>
>
>=
>Connor McDonald
>web: http://www.oracledba.co.uk
>web: http://www.oaktable.net
>email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>"GIVE a man a fish and he will eat for a day. But TEACH him how to fish, and...he 
>will sit in a boat and drink beer all day"
>
>
>Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
>Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/
>  
>

-- 
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-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: RE: 10g

[rgaffuri]

there are some semi-technical articles on otn about 10g. Im less than impressed with 
the pl/sql enhancements. 

anyone look at the HTML DB stuff? is that considerably better than the htp package or 
pl/sql server pages? 
> 
> From: Wolfgang Breitling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/09/09 Tue AM 11:24:27 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: 10g
> 
> No, you get 3 wishes from the genie, after that you have to buy a licence 
> for geniEE.
> 
> Come to think of it, maybe the g in Oracle 10g stands for genie rather than 
> grid?
> 
> At 06:59 AM 9/9/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >You're up to 3 wishes and then it will crash ...
> >
> >I wonder if you have to rub the server or the disk box to get the genie ?
> >
> >
> >Stephane Paquette
> >Administrateur de bases de donnees
> >Database Administrator
> >Standard Life
> >www.standardlife.ca
> >Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Wolfgang Breitling
> Oracle7, 8, 8i, 9i OCP DBA
> Centrex Consulting Corporation
> http://www.centrexcc.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Wolfgang Breitling
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 

-- 
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Re: Re: DBMS_STATS

[chao_ping]

Hi, friends:
How do you use dbms_stats.gather_schema_stats in OLTP production system?
I ever used estimate statistics =20% percent, and some time have serious 
performance impact while two big table join in my production changed. Later I changed 
to compute and till now , It is ok.
And another question about CBO stability:
Do you always analyze your database weekly(or with less data changed, 
monthly)? Some times because of something wrong, the db is performance poor. While 
development team will always say: it must be your CBO that is misfunction, repair it! 
Faint, I think CBO is ok in most case with compute statistics, but that kind of 
question is really headache, right? How do you friends answer that kind of questions? 
Sometimes I even want to stop analyze the db weekly.As far as I know, some site like 
Ebay do not analye database.Can it because they use rbo?
And to jeff, for DW application, for indexed columns size 1 is good because it 
gather histrogram data, but for OLTP system, do you think it is necessary? Friends 
please share your opinions? Do you use dbms_stats.gather_table_stats, or 
dbms_stats.gather_schema_stats?

My scripts:
>echo begin to analyze user bidder at `date +%x%T` 
>>>/export/home/oracle/log/analyze.log
>sqlplus /nolog alter session set sort_area_size=1;
>alter session set sort_multiblock_read_count =128;
>execute 
>dbms_stats.gather_schema_stats(ownname=>'bidder',estimate_percent=>99,degree=>8,cascade=>true,method_opt=>'for
> all columns');
>quit
>EOF
>echo finished  analyze user bidder at `date +%x%T` 
>>>/export/home/oracle/log/analyze.log

Thanks.




Regards
zhu chao
msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cnoug.org(China Oracle User Group)

=== 2003-02-27 08:09:00 ,you wrote£º===

>Terrian, Tom (Contractor) (DAASC) wrote:
>
>>  I have never had good luck with DBMS_STATS.  It seems that the old
>> analyze runs much faster.Runs in 45 seconds:analyze table
>> log_trans partition (log_trans_20030104) estimate statistics sample 5
>> percent; Takes over 2 hours:execute
>> dbms_stats.gather_table_stats(ownname => 'LDGADMIN', -
>>   tabname => 'LOG_TRANS', -
>>   partname =>
>> 'LOG_TRANS_20030102', -
>>   estimate_percent => 5);
>> Am I missing something?  Aren't both commands the same?Thanks,Tom
>
>  Hello Tom
>
>We too experienced terrible performance upon first using dbms_stats.
>There
>are two things we did that brought the performance in line with the
>analyze.
>1.  We set method_opt =  'FOR ALL INDEXED COLUMNS SIZE 1'
>2.  We set  estimate_percent = 15
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>BTW:
>Sun/Solaris 2.6 & 2.8
>Running 8i, 9i, 9.2
>5 terabyte db's
>
>Jeff

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Re: DBMS_STATS

[gmei]

We run DBMS_STATS.GATHER_TABLE_STATS nightly as cron job using this script
to spool the result to a temp file, then use sqlplus to run that file.

select  'execute DBMS_STATS.GATHER_TABLE_STATS('''||owner||''','''||
segment_name||''',cascade => TRUE);'
  from  ( select  owner,segment_name, sum(bytes) from  dba_segments s
 where  segment_type like 'TABLE%' and
owner in ('XYZ') and
s.partition_name is null
 group  by owner,segment_name
 order  by sum(s.bytes) desc);

We use multi-thread (3 threads) to run this script and it cuts the whole
time by half. Now it takes about 1.5 hours (our data set is small). For
another larger schema, we do this once a month.

Guang Mei

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of chao_ping
> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 3:49 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Re: DBMS_STATS
>
>
> Hi, friends:
>   How do you use dbms_stats.gather_schema_stats in OLTP
> production system?
>   I ever used estimate statistics =20% percent, and some
> time have serious performance impact while two big table join
> in my production changed. Later I changed to compute and till
> now , It is ok.
>   And another question about CBO stability:
>   Do you always analyze your database weekly(or with less
> data changed, monthly)? Some times because of something
> wrong, the db is performance poor. While development team
> will always say: it must be your CBO that is misfunction,
> repair it! Faint, I think CBO is ok in most case with compute
> statistics, but that kind of question is really headache,
> right? How do you friends answer that kind of questions?
> Sometimes I even want to stop analyze the db weekly.As far as
> I know, some site like Ebay do not analye database.Can it
> because they use rbo?
>   And to jeff, for DW application, for indexed columns
> size 1 is good because it gather histrogram data, but for
> OLTP system, do you think it is necessary? Friends please
> share your opinions? Do you use
> dbms_stats.gather_table_stats, or dbms_stats.gather_schema_stats?
>
> My scripts:
> >echo begin to analyze user bidder at `date +%x%T`
> >>/export/home/oracle/log/analyze.log
> >sqlplus /nolog < >connect / as sysdba
> >alter session set sort_area_size=1;
> >alter session set sort_multiblock_read_count =128;
> >execute
> dbms_stats.gather_schema_stats(ownname=>'bidder',estimate_perc
> ent=>99,degree=>8,cascade=>true,method_opt=>'for all columns');
> >quit
> >EOF
> >echo finished  analyze user bidder at `date +%x%T`
> >>/export/home/oracle/log/analyze.log
>
>   Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> Regards
> zhu chao
> msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.cnoug.org(China Oracle User Group)
>
> === 2003-02-27 08:09:00 ,you wrote£º===
>
> >Terrian, Tom (Contractor) (DAASC) wrote:
> >
> >>  I have never had good luck with DBMS_STATS.  It seems that the old
> >> analyze runs much faster.Runs in 45 seconds:analyze table
> >> log_trans partition (log_trans_20030104) estimate
> statistics sample 5
> >> percent; Takes over 2 hours:execute
> >> dbms_stats.gather_table_stats(ownname => 'LDGADMIN', -
> >>   tabname => 'LOG_TRANS', -
> >>   partname =>
> >> 'LOG_TRANS_20030102', -
> >>   estimate_percent => 5);
> >> Am I missing something?  Aren't both commands the same?Thanks,Tom
> >
> >  Hello Tom
> >
> >We too experienced terrible performance upon first using dbms_stats.
> >There
> >are two things we did that brought the performance in line with the
> >analyze.
> >1.  We set method_opt =  'FOR ALL INDEXED COLUMNS SIZE 1'
> >2.  We set  estimate_percent = 15
> >
> >Hope this helps.
> >
> >BTW:
> >Sun/Solaris 2.6 & 2.8
> >Running 8i, 9i, 9.2
> >5 terabyte db's
> >
> >Jeff
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: chao_ping
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Re: Re: OCP

[rgaffuri]

I didnt realize that you might be able to do the 8i one without handing $2k to oracle 
for their class and taking the upgrade exams is a better path.

anyone know if this is possible? You only need to get 50% of the questions right on 
the upgrade tests. 

> 
> From: "Darrell Landrum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/03/12 Wed AM 07:48:43 EST
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: OCP
> 
> Jay,
> 
> One thing to consider is that just starting the 9i track and if you've not taken any 
> OCP exams prior to September of 2002, there is a requirement to attend one 9i 
> training class in addition to the exams.  However (you'll probably need to call 
> Oracle to get a solid answer to this), if you can still take the 8i track with no 
> classroom training and then take the 9i upgrade exam (if they allow this with no 
> classroom training), this would be your least expensive route since the classes are 
> quite expensive.  The down side is a total of six exams instead of just four.
> If your company is willing to send you to one of the 9i classes, I would take 
> advantage of that and just go for the 9i track.
> 
> Good luck!
> Darrell
> 
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/12/03 04:09AM >>>
> Dear All,
> 
> I plan to take up Oracle Certification (DBA) very soon. Iam quite confused 
> about the
> tracks and the exams. Is it better to pass OCP 8i and then upgrade to 9i 
> or go
> straight for the 9i OCP DBA title, with regard to the complexities of the 
> exam.
> 
> Thanks in advance for all your help and guidance which would be really 
> helpful.
> 
> Best Regards
> Jai
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Darrell Landrum
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> 

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RE: Re: OCP

[Deshpande, Kirti]

>>> You only need to get 50% of the questions right on the upgrade tests.

Why not set the goal to it get 100% right?  ;) 

- Kirti 



-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I didnt realize that you might be able to do the 8i one without handing $2k to oracle 
for their class and taking the upgrade exams is a better path.

anyone know if this is possible? You only need to get 50% of the questions right on 
the upgrade tests. 

> 
> From: "Darrell Landrum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/03/12 Wed AM 07:48:43 EST
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: OCP
> 
> Jay,
> 
> One thing to consider is that just starting the 9i track and if you've not taken any 
> OCP exams prior to September of 2002, there is a requirement to attend one 9i 
> training class in addition to the exams.  However (you'll probably need to call 
> Oracle to get a solid answer to this), if you can still take the 8i track with no 
> classroom training and then take the 9i upgrade exam (if they allow this with no 
> classroom training), this would be your least expensive route since the classes are 
> quite expensive.  The down side is a total of six exams instead of just four.
> If your company is willing to send you to one of the 9i classes, I would take 
> advantage of that and just go for the 9i track.
> 
> Good luck!
> Darrell
> 
> 

-- 
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-- 
Author: Deshpande, Kirti
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Re: OCP

[Paula_Stankus]

Title: RE: Re: OCP





So how can you check the status of your 8i OCP so you can sign up for the 9i OCP upgrade exam?  


-Original Message-
From: Deshpande, Kirti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Re: OCP



>>> You only need to get 50% of the questions right on the upgrade tests.


Why not set the goal to it get 100% right?  ;) 


- Kirti 




-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



I didnt realize that you might be able to do the 8i one without handing $2k to oracle for their class and taking the upgrade exams is a better path.

anyone know if this is possible? You only need to get 50% of the questions right on the upgrade tests. 


> 
> From: "Darrell Landrum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/03/12 Wed AM 07:48:43 EST
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: OCP
> 
> Jay,
> 
> One thing to consider is that just starting the 9i track and if you've not taken any OCP exams prior to September of 2002, there is a requirement to attend one 9i training class in addition to the exams.  However (you'll probably need to call Oracle to get a solid answer to this), if you can still take the 8i track with no classroom training and then take the 9i upgrade exam (if they allow this with no classroom training), this would be your least expensive route since the classes are quite expensive.  The down side is a total of six exams instead of just four.

> If your company is willing to send you to one of the 9i classes, I would take advantage of that and just go for the 9i track.

> 
> Good luck!
> Darrell
> 
> 


-- 
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-- 
Author: Deshpande, Kirti
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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