Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Right here. Here are the links for the Tao of Holding Space and if you’d like a beautiful designed copy email me for details. http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot/the-tao-of-holding-space/ Chris _ CHRIS CORRIGAN www.chriscorrigan.com > On Aug 21, 2019, at 11:38 AM, Harrison Owen via OSList > wrote: > > Paul – Wonderful to hear from you! And… several years ago I was in Beijing > with peers, colleagues and friends who collectively had doubtless done many > more OSTs than I – all in a most challenging environment. They asked me to > say something and I replied that actually I thought it had all been said some > 3000 years ago by a marvelous person, Lao Tzu. And I think you would be > interested in a wonderful book done by an old friend, Chris Corrigan called > the “Tao of Holding Space.” Chris shows up here (OSLIST) more than > occasionally – Chris where are you? I think he put it up (PDF) online??? You > will enjoy. > > Harrison > > From: Paul Nunesdea [mailto:p.nunes...@architectingcollaboration.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 2:11 PM > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > Cc: Harrison Owen > Subject: Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about > Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association > for Peace and Human Understanding...? > > Greetings HO, I have been away from this list except when something > extraordinarily contentious happens here, and I got attracted by the > certification subject. > > Yes, just to say I am among those that used OST by reading your book + an > extremely helpful and long coaching call from Lisa Heft - the Open Space > Community's Mary Magdalene. > > Since then the power of self-organization never ceased to amaze me, and to be > honest my most precious ally when big challenges are faced. > > I have written books about group facilitation in my mother languages, I argue > OST is the ultimate group facilitation methodology, inspired by seminal work > of very dear IAF colleagues (and your disciples?) here in Europe, Gerardo de > Luzemberg and Jean-Philippe Poupard. > > And your answer below, reinforces my faith on this absolute mystery of > self-organization that have been helping me so much. > > Tanks for the unsuspected Dee Hock's book recommendation, I will read it > next. > > I apologize Listers if this other unsuspected reference below has already > been discussed here before, but I recently re-discovered Lao Tzu book Tao Te > Ching (the book of the way) and cannot think about the resemblances with your > discoveries HO. > > If you like listening instead of reading, this is an amazing free resource on > Youtube: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2UYch2JnO4 > > I suspect Lao Tzu's interpretation of what the master will do about OST's > certification is just about what you have written below, beloved father. > > Best wishes > Paul Nunesdea | Paulo Nunes de Abreu > https://www.architectingcollaboration.com/ > > > > > > > On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 at 23:15, Harrison Owen via OSList > wrote: > Barry -- your notion about "scale" -- numbers of people -- is pretty close to > the accepted wisdom. Summed up in the old refrain, Some day we got to get > organized! Especially when we get bigger. Certainly makes sense, keeps a lot > of MBA programs in business, but simply doesn't accord with my experience. > First in terms of my usual standard reference... Open Spaces. The curious, > but I think instructive thing, is that every Open Space that I have > facilitated or been a part of -- regardless of size (5- 2108) has been > unnervingly the same. 10-15 minutes for opening, 20 min for issue > announcement, 30 minutes for market place arrangements (combinations, > reschedules, cup of coffee) 1 hour to start of first session -- and from > there on it all happened by itself. This has even been true in several > situation where a very hard working planning committee worked out every > detail in accord with the best meeting management protocols. Looked great on > paper, immediately fell apart, and just as quickly self organized, despite > their best efforts. Weird! > > Then there is the observed behavior and accomplishments of what we might > vaguely call, "The Open Space Community." If you put aside all question of > how we got there, the accomplishments I believe are rather impressive. Indeed > there are very few HR consulting groups that could come anywhere close. Just > take the numbers: 35 years in business, minimum 500,000 "interventions," > millions of participants, thousands of facilitators,
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Paul – Wonderful to hear from you! And… several years ago I was in Beijing with peers, colleagues and friends who collectively had doubtless done many more OSTs than I – all in a most challenging environment. They asked me to say something and I replied that actually I thought it had all been said some 3000 years ago by a marvelous person, Lao Tzu. And I think you would be interested in a wonderful book done by an old friend, Chris Corrigan called the “Tao of Holding Space.” Chris shows up here (OSLIST) more than occasionally – Chris where are you? I think he put it up (PDF) online??? You will enjoy. Harrison From: Paul Nunesdea [mailto:p.nunes...@architectingcollaboration.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 2:11 PM To: World wide Open Space Technology email list Cc: Harrison Owen Subject: Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...? Greetings HO, I have been away from this list except when something extraordinarily contentious happens here, and I got attracted by the certification subject. Yes, just to say I am among those that used OST by reading your book + an extremely helpful and long coaching call from Lisa Heft - the Open Space Community's Mary Magdalene. Since then the power of self-organization never ceased to amaze me, and to be honest my most precious ally when big challenges are faced. I have written books about group facilitation in my mother languages, I argue OST is the ultimate group facilitation methodology, inspired by seminal work of very dear IAF colleagues (and your disciples?) here in Europe, Gerardo de Luzemberg and Jean-Philippe Poupard. And your answer below, reinforces my faith on this absolute mystery of self-organization that have been helping me so much. Tanks for the unsuspected Dee Hock's book recommendation, I will read it next. I apologize Listers if this other unsuspected reference below has already been discussed here before, but I recently re-discovered Lao Tzu book Tao Te Ching (the book of the way) and cannot think about the resemblances with your discoveries HO. If you like listening instead of reading, this is an amazing free resource on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2UYch2JnO4 I suspect Lao Tzu's interpretation of what the master will do about OST's certification is just about what you have written below, beloved father. Best wishes Paul Nunesdea | Paulo Nunes de Abreu <https://www.architectingcollaboration.com/> https://www.architectingcollaboration.com/ <http://i66.tinypic.com/iejgqe.png> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/d216e3a1535c277cb09ec49a1834070cb6323269.png?u=4673463> On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 at 23:15, Harrison Owen via OSList wrote: Barry -- your notion about "scale" -- numbers of people -- is pretty close to the accepted wisdom. Summed up in the old refrain, Some day we got to get organized! Especially when we get bigger. Certainly makes sense, keeps a lot of MBA programs in business, but simply doesn't accord with my experience. First in terms of my usual standard reference... Open Spaces. The curious, but I think instructive thing, is that every Open Space that I have facilitated or been a part of -- regardless of size (5- 2108) has been unnervingly the same. 10-15 minutes for opening, 20 min for issue announcement, 30 minutes for market place arrangements (combinations, reschedules, cup of coffee) 1 hour to start of first session -- and from there on it all happened by itself. This has even been true in several situation where a very hard working planning committee worked out every detail in accord with the best meeting management protocols. Looked great on paper, immediately fell apart, and just as quickly self organized, despite their best efforts. Weird! Then there is the observed behavior and accomplishments of what we might vaguely call, "The Open Space Community." If you put aside all question of how we got there, the accomplishments I believe are rather impressive. Indeed there are very few HR consulting groups that could come anywhere close. Just take the numbers: 35 years in business, minimum 500,000 "interventions," millions of participants, thousands of facilitators, massive coverage by the international press, and a multitude of imitators -- which is always a complement in a weird way. Not bad if I do say so myself. AND it might be pointed out that all of this took place without a shred of formal organization, no institutional funding, no defined leadership structure, zero effort at standardization or certification. Why would anybody want to change that ... even if you could? And then in the REAL WORLD... That would be Corporations, Governments, NGOs -- I can give you any number of examples
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Greetings HO, I have been away from this list except when something extraordinarily contentious happens here, and I got attracted by the certification subject. Yes, just to say I am among those that used OST by reading your book + an extremely helpful and long coaching call from Lisa Heft - the Open Space Community's Mary Magdalene. Since then the power of self-organization never ceased to amaze me, and to be honest my most precious ally when big challenges are faced. I have written books about group facilitation in my mother languages, I argue OST is the ultimate group facilitation methodology, inspired by seminal work of very dear IAF colleagues (and your disciples?) here in Europe, Gerardo de Luzemberg and Jean-Philippe Poupard. And your answer below, reinforces my faith on this absolute mystery of self-organization that have been helping me so much. Tanks for the unsuspected Dee Hock's book recommendation, I will read it next. I apologize Listers if this other unsuspected reference below has already been discussed here before, but I recently re-discovered Lao Tzu book Tao Te Ching (the book of the way) and cannot think about the resemblances with your discoveries HO. If you like listening instead of reading, this is an amazing free resource on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2UYch2JnO4 I suspect Lao Tzu's interpretation of what the master will do about OST's certification is just about what you have written below, beloved father. Best wishes Paul Nunesdea | Paulo Nunes de Abreu https://www.architectingcollaboration.com/ Sent from my iPhone > On 20 Aug 2019, at 22:15, Harrison Owen via OSList > wrote: > > Barry -- your notion about "scale" -- numbers of people -- is pretty close to > the accepted wisdom. Summed up in the old refrain, Some day we got to get > organized! Especially when we get bigger. Certainly makes sense, keeps a lot > of MBA programs in business, but simply doesn't accord with my experience. > First in terms of my usual standard reference... Open Spaces. The curious, > but I think instructive thing, is that every Open Space that I have > facilitated or been a part of -- regardless of size (5- 2108) has been > unnervingly the same. 10-15 minutes for opening, 20 min for issue > announcement, 30 minutes for market place arrangements (combinations, > reschedules, cup of coffee) 1 hour to start of first session -- and from > there on it all happened by itself. This has even been true in several > situation where a very hard working planning committee worked out every > detail in accord with the best meeting management protocols. Looked great on > paper, immediately fell apart, and just as quickly self organized, despite > their best efforts. Weird! > > Then there is the observed behavior and accomplishments of what we might > vaguely call, "The Open Space Community." If you put aside all question of > how we got there, the accomplishments I believe are rather impressive. Indeed > there are very few HR consulting groups that could come anywhere close. Just > take the numbers: 35 years in business, minimum 500,000 "interventions," > millions of participants, thousands of facilitators, massive coverage by the > international press, and a multitude of imitators -- which is always a > complement in a weird way. Not bad if I do say so myself. AND it might be > pointed out that all of this took place without a shred of formal > organization, no institutional funding, no defined leadership structure, zero > effort at standardization or certification. Why would anybody want to change > that ... even if you could? > > And then in the REAL WORLD... That would be Corporations, Governments, NGOs > -- I can give you any number of examples where such organizations spent > millions of $$$ to get organized, failed, -- and then opened some space to > accomplish in several days where they had failed miserably for years. I "did" > a few of those personally, but in most cases (if I was directly involved) I > advised that they save a lot of money, buy the book, and do it. And of course > there were any number of situations where sensitive participants of one OST > simply went out and "did" it again without benefit of book, training, > certification. Marvelous! > > And if you want "testimony" from a different, and presumably unbiased source, > check out Dee Hock, "Chaordic Organizations." > > Harrison (and -- of course -- also your father.) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barry Owen via OSList > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list > > Cc: Barry Owen ; Michael M Pannwitz > > Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2019 11:10 am > Subj
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Barry -- your notion about "scale" -- numbers of people -- is pretty close to the accepted wisdom. Summed up in the old refrain, Some day we got to get organized! Especially when we get bigger. Certainly makes sense, keeps a lot of MBA programs in business, but simply doesn't accord with my experience. First in terms of my usual standard reference... Open Spaces. The curious, but I think instructive thing, is that every Open Space that I have facilitated or been a part of -- regardless of size (5- 2108) has been unnervingly the same. 10-15 minutes for opening, 20 min for issue announcement, 30 minutes for market place arrangements (combinations, reschedules, cup of coffee) 1 hour to start of first session -- and from there on it all happened by itself. This has even been true in several situation where a very hard working planning committee worked out every detail in accord with the best meeting management protocols. Looked great on paper, immediately fell apart, and just as quickly self organized, despite their best efforts. Weird! Then there is the observed behavior and accomplishments of what we might vaguely call, "The Open Space Community." If you put aside all question of how we got there, the accomplishments I believe are rather impressive. Indeed there are very few HR consulting groups that could come anywhere close. Just take the numbers: 35 years in business, minimum 500,000 "interventions," millions of participants, thousands of facilitators, massive coverage by the international press, and a multitude of imitators -- which is always a complement in a weird way. Not bad if I do say so myself. AND it might be pointed out that all of this took place without a shred of formal organization, no institutional funding, no defined leadership structure, zero effort at standardization or certification. Why would anybody want to change that ... even if you could? And then in the REAL WORLD... That would be Corporations, Governments, NGOs -- I can give you any number of examples where such organizations spent millions of $$$ to get organized, failed, -- and then opened some space to accomplish in several days where they had failed miserably for years. I "did" a few of those personally, but in most cases (if I was directly involved) I advised that they save a lot of money, buy the book, and do it. And of course there were any number of situations where sensitive participants of one OST simply went out and "did" it again without benefit of book, training, certification. Marvelous! And if you want "testimony" from a different, and presumably unbiased source, check out Dee Hock, "Chaordic Organizations." Harrison (and -- of course -- also your father.) -Original Message- From: Barry Owen via OSList To: World wide Open Space Technology email list Cc: Barry Owen ; Michael M Pannwitz Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2019 11:10 am Subject: Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...? I've been mulling this over for months now. Have come to what I think is a conclusion that blaming the mayhem on "Organisations" is akin to "shooting the messenger" . . . making it a martyr.After all, any time there's more than one person present, it's essentially the birth of an "organisation".I think the real problem is that of scale.It seems to me that, as the number "Members" increases in any "gathering", the perceived "need" for organisation becomes more prevalent.As that dynamic evolves, the people seem to "forget" what "brung'm here" . . . That is . . . those things that have never changed BreathCircleBulletin BoardMarketplaceExpect to be (be prepared to be) surprised fall by the wayside as more and more "social constructs" emerge thereby converting Open Space to Command and control.Oh yeah . . . and "keeping up with the Joneses" My opinion is that the "mandate" of "just open more space anywhere and everywhere" is an open invitation for all of us (humanity) to remember to: BreatheName the Theme (Important, Complex, Diversity of People/Opinions, potential for conflict, need for resolution NOW)Invite whoever caresGather in a circleCreate the Bulletin BoardOpen the marketplaceGet to work! and the best news is that everyone already knows how to do this . . . we've just gotta remind them. So . . . I think more organisations will "get" this as we open more space every day. They're not broken or corrupt! Bless their hearts . . . They're simply forgetful, and all we've gotta do is remind them. or something . . . b On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 5:03 AM Michael M Pannwitz via OSList wrote: Dear all, my assum
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Paul, if I remember right, the severely dehydrated need to be restored with IV's.The water analogy is a good one though, in another sense... We all have something we call a mind, but many people never look at mind. People have been teaching meditation for a long time to do just that. The teachings vary from "sit this way" to the more direct "look at your mind." The usual analogy is that we are like fish who don't know we are in water. What good does awareness of water do for a fish? Hard to say, but awareness of mind and organization spaces seems to help people. As for teaching? It's easy to point it out in a minute or a second as you say, but it takes some work and practice to stabilize that view, in action. Teaching or coaching can be helpful with that I think. -- Michael Herman Michael Herman Associates 312-280-7838 (mobile) http://MichaelHerman.com http://OpenSpaceWorld.org On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 9:58 AM Royle, Karl via OSList < oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote: > Sounds a bit like “lifelong learning” which has been critiqued for placing > individuals as being at fault for not fitting in with the general > capitalist project… > > > > Just a thought…. Also see therapeutic governance ☺ > > > > *From: *OSList on behalf of Tony > Budak via OSList > *Reply-To: *World wide Open Space Technology email list < > oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> > *Date: *Tuesday, 20 August 2019 at 16:47 > *To: *"oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" > *Cc: *Tony Budak > *Subject: *Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about > Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association > for Peace and Human Understanding...? > > > > How about "Learning Networks that re-engage people into a learning culture > that is relevant to their lives, supports their aspirations and recognizes > their own inherent talents?" > > Please CLICK the following to set up a meeting. All my contact info is > here: > https://pickatime.acuityscheduling.com/ > <https://url6.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1i06MJ-00080n-4e&i=57e1b682&c=eVbbuc74AYmZy82y32_sZQqrP_JYUdbbYddSQQ7MR0auHpftE8KMtuXMNVwtqKMlTczyu1Gg3KHnJRm1ULh7MBJQ2Bc9rLulL7GGkCHYNyzckfahl3I3N0NVjhZPXWyqJeWvsbNXN2BsoGU8FpeFFJ43Z4mnua3hSAS_t6X5XHbbBCxw9e0Q6MNLxJ29C7Eq_u06rcLINhUYfms0BvRc44kYsbaKA5pG9XeTLK_fQPG0-TqP4Q7Rd_mRtzzmi0gZ> > > Thanks for creating our tomorrows, > Tony > > On 8/19/2019 11:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote: > > 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for > certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was > something that did not Resonate well. > > > > Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of > peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but > highly complex. As Harrison says.. chaos plows the fields of the mind so > that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle > right now. > > > > I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world > to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living > spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the > standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be > organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace > and understanding in a more organized way? > > > > If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a > city manager there are associations for that . > > > > Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define > the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has > already articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized > and stay organized until we get the job done? > > > > Respectfully submitted, > > Mark Carmel > > > > > > > > ___ > > OSList mailing list > > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > <https://url6.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1i06MJ-00080n-4e&i=57e1b682&c=gMUO66GIDsVxwlId-PB_Uv-bINMF4tv5tG89Lqc-PEVXTnPl8-SIcDy2EkO1APP6Y4eprUyyvdl5CAU6h5IW5om3C5Lcf0xC6CMOnkuMshMd0oMgYgOZ8AGiHlOMI6uFuo8lcU69hgr0PZs-r6emE72NRdKFkwy9l_GTx13C6tNgzCyH6Ccas0S8M2847YARgwrwN_7ypqXBPG-pmzkjmfTvAKMTyGaMZfwwR-h-nhZGEJ3GM6cCG2LKwHQIlR9t7oJThotf_cMTFi0p30qpNA> > > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-arc
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Sounds a bit like “lifelong learning” which has been critiqued for placing individuals as being at fault for not fitting in with the general capitalist project… Just a thought…. Also see therapeutic governance ☺ From: OSList on behalf of Tony Budak via OSList Reply-To: World wide Open Space Technology email list Date: Tuesday, 20 August 2019 at 16:47 To: "oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" Cc: Tony Budak Subject: Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...? How about "Learning Networks that re-engage people into a learning culture that is relevant to their lives, supports their aspirations and recognizes their own inherent talents?" Please CLICK the following to set up a meeting. All my contact info is here: https://pickatime.acuityscheduling.com/<https://url6.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1i06MJ-00080n-4e&i=57e1b682&c=eVbbuc74AYmZy82y32_sZQqrP_JYUdbbYddSQQ7MR0auHpftE8KMtuXMNVwtqKMlTczyu1Gg3KHnJRm1ULh7MBJQ2Bc9rLulL7GGkCHYNyzckfahl3I3N0NVjhZPXWyqJeWvsbNXN2BsoGU8FpeFFJ43Z4mnua3hSAS_t6X5XHbbBCxw9e0Q6MNLxJ29C7Eq_u06rcLINhUYfms0BvRc44kYsbaKA5pG9XeTLK_fQPG0-TqP4Q7Rd_mRtzzmi0gZ> Thanks for creating our tomorrows, Tony On 8/19/2019 11:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote: 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was something that did not Resonate well. Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but highly complex. As Harrison says.. chaos plows the fields of the mind so that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle right now. I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace and understanding in a more organized way? If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a city manager there are associations for that . Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has already articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized and stay organized until we get the job done? Respectfully submitted, Mark Carmel ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org<mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org> To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org<mailto:oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org<https://url6.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1i06MJ-00080n-4e&i=57e1b682&c=gMUO66GIDsVxwlId-PB_Uv-bINMF4tv5tG89Lqc-PEVXTnPl8-SIcDy2EkO1APP6Y4eprUyyvdl5CAU6h5IW5om3C5Lcf0xC6CMOnkuMshMd0oMgYgOZ8AGiHlOMI6uFuo8lcU69hgr0PZs-r6emE72NRdKFkwy9l_GTx13C6tNgzCyH6Ccas0S8M2847YARgwrwN_7ypqXBPG-pmzkjmfTvAKMTyGaMZfwwR-h-nhZGEJ3GM6cCG2LKwHQIlR9t7oJThotf_cMTFi0p30qpNA> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org<https://url6.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1i06MJ-00080n-4e&i=57e1b682&c=ivuq_4d0ZD1M8LhmOEKYL5yRHdWxMiMfridnVDtN4kkasIQ3FJM6NsJ1pzMuizDyer5DuynhgS3fIW5COwoJR8UGrrHTAeJl_AzUcfjYqt-nWbSpJ0uyAv3vHA90AYs89cu474gMtXn-Yr8y-zrnwj3YOFAFjfbXkm4OykBBGlmetCNdsMTfaA_I_A1eoy_r-g4Cr3h69csaSs323PEplswh86cRs7GmL9NGFZmD6aNtRvtX6DTaUyqbYQgNcaRJFb5ujsZsWWYQIiIdBEqq_w> ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
How about "Learning Networks that re-engage people into a learning culture that is relevant to their lives, supports their aspirations and recognizes their own inherent talents?" Please CLICK the following to set up a meeting. All my contact info is here: https://pickatime.acuityscheduling.com/ Thanks for creating our tomorrows, Tony On 8/19/2019 11:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote: 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was something that did not Resonate well. Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but highly complex. As Harrison says.. chaos plows the fields of the mind so that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle right now. I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace and understanding in a more organized way? If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a city manager there are associations for that . Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has already articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized and stay organized until we get the job done? Respectfully submitted, Mark Carmel ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
From Devin Balkind: https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Spokes_Council_Model "Occupy Sandy, which took place about a year after Occupy Wall Street, worked a bit differently. We recognized the flaw in a council of affinity groups and instead organized a spokes council around projects. Project members, unlike group members, had to agree to maintain a membership list, vouch for their members, and articulate success metrics that the group had to meet to remain in good standing with the council. Those elements made a world of difference. The Occupy Sandy Project Council successfully managed hundreds of thousands of dollars through a consensus-based process that, while sometimes contentious and stressful, actually succeeded in allocating funds to impactful projects in transparent ways that won the respect of myriads of people — from city officials to direct action organizers. I've been trying to translate this "project spokescouncil" approach to other types of organizations ever since, with some success. Here's how I've been applying these principles: *Instead of creating an "organization," create a charter that explains how to run a network. * ** *Instead of figuring out all the things you want your organization to do, find people already doing these things and invite them to join your network. * ** *Instead of creating a central administration to run the network, encourage projects to commit to performing the various functions needed to sustain the network, including administrative ones. * One of the great features of the project spokescouncil approach is that participating projects don't have to agree on anything more than a charter. For-profits, nonprofits, cooperatives, coalitions, grassroots projects, and other groups can all coexist without forcing their processes on each other" On 8/19/2019 11:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote: 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was something that did not Resonate well. Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but highly complex. As Harrison says.. chaos plows the fields of the mind so that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle right now. I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace and understanding in a more organized way? If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a city manager there are associations for that . Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has already articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized and stay organized until we get the job done? Respectfully submitted, Mark Carmel ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
I've been mulling this over for months now. Have come to what I think is a conclusion that blaming the mayhem on "Organisations" is akin to "shooting the messenger" . . . making it a martyr. After all, any time there's more than one person present, it's essentially the birth of an "organisation". I think the real problem is that of scale. It seems to me that, as the number "Members" increases in any "gathering", the perceived "need" for organisation becomes more prevalent. As that dynamic evolves, the people seem to "forget" what "brung'm here" . . . That is . . . those things that have never changed Breath Circle Bulletin Board Marketplace Expect to be (be prepared to be) surprised fall by the wayside as more and more "social constructs" emerge thereby converting Open Space to Command and control. Oh yeah . . . and "keeping up with the Joneses" My opinion is that the "mandate" of "just open more space anywhere and everywhere" is an open invitation for all of us (humanity) to remember to: Breathe Name the Theme (Important, Complex, Diversity of People/Opinions, potential for conflict, need for resolution NOW) Invite whoever cares Gather in a circle Create the Bulletin Board Open the marketplace Get to work! and the best news is that everyone already knows how to do this . . . we've just gotta remind them. So . . . I think more organisations will "get" this as we open more space every day. They're not broken or corrupt! Bless their hearts . . . They're simply forgetful, and all we've gotta do is remind them. or something . . . b On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 5:03 AM Michael M Pannwitz via OSList < oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote: > Dear all, > > my assumption regarding "organisation" is that they are the work of the > devil. > They are omnipresent. There is practically nothing that can do without > an "organisation". Government, churches, mafia, health care, schools, > prisons, military, restaurants, foundations, associations, universities, > concentration camps, secret service, sports, museums, shipyards, > daycare, labour unions, political parties, courts, NGOs, NATO, ... you > name it. > Thinking beyond "organisations" seems impossible. > Working for, in, against, with, through, in spite of, etc. > "organisations" is omnipresent. > And to make things even worse, they all are selforganising, right? > And despite or because of their existence we have wars, starvation, > pollution, glaciers disappearing, crime, corruption, you name it. > Now, organisations not created by the devil but lets say by God would > not create such a mess. > One of the most lucrative businesses just about everywhere is > consulting. Huge consulting firms work with/for/ect. huge businesses, > governments, NGOs. Millions of folks work in that field helping them to > become better, faster, etc. in the business they are involved in. > > Now, is ost something that consulting firms are into? > > There are some forms of "systems" such as neighborhoods, circles of > friends, collegial counselling groups, OSonOS (local, regional, > worldwide), people playing soccer with a tin can on a vacant lot, > families, demonstrations (HongKong, Fridays for Future...), Stammtische... > I smile in such settings, happy myself, grow myself... in such > "settings" and also frustrate myself now and then. Especially when > "control" enters the stage. > And at some point many such "systems" or "settings" ossify when they > take on the form of "organisations". In other words, the devil takes over. > Some of us smell that when it approaches and say "no". And move on or > drop out or fight or... > > Ok, this is stuff that comes up when I look at my "assumption" regarding > "organisation". > > I would like to hear more about your "assumptions" that come up when > "organisation" enters your mind. > > Greetings from Berlin > mmp > > > > Am 20.08.2019 um 00:04 schrieb R Chaffe via OSList: > > Chris, > > I look forward to Mark’s reply to your question. It seems to me that > that the question mixes up the who and the what. Mark uses a few examples > including a mechanic, the first question I have is what experience the > trade person has my second is an example of their work. OST is at one > level about the “how” the job is done and I think that is one level the > question comes from. Being able to Open Space and engage effectively with > the sponsor and the community of concern is an other level again. > > > > There is a level of trust between the sponsor and the facilitator that > the result the sponsor wants will be delivered. The sponsor might ask how > did you do that? I suggest that they are more interested on what you as > facilitator delivered based on the contract. > > > > In many ways focusing on the how is counter productive the “what” is the > thing that pays the bills and builds reputations. > > > > If my thinking is correct the struggle is to define a professional > facilitator who can deliver is the issue not what tools they use when i
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
I thought that might be a response. However I believe the original simple metaphor remains tellingly and elusively true for teaching OST. It's always good to draw on fairy tales and apply them to your life. It's rarely good to impose current context onto fairy tales. Thought you might wish to take another run up... Best wishes Paul Paul Levy Writer, facilitator, conversifier and collusion breaker On Tue, 20 Aug 2019, 13:58 R Chaffe via OSList, < oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote: > Paul > You say > “For me, offering training in OST is like taking a day to train someone in > how to drink fresh water.” > > Right now millions of dollars are being spent doing just that “teaching > people to drink fresh water” because in the western world we have lost our > way and cannot even feed ourselves properly any more. Your example is so > true we do have to teach people to find an open space to provide genuine > opportunities to be part of their future. > > Think again, you may be the best person to do just that and teach people > about Open Space and it’s technology. > > Regards > Rob > > > On 20 Aug 2019, at 7:31 pm, paul levy via OSList < > oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote: > > > > For me, offering training in OST is like taking a day to train someone > in how to drink fresh water. > > > > Regards > > > > Paul Levy > ___ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Paul You say “For me, offering training in OST is like taking a day to train someone in how to drink fresh water.” Right now millions of dollars are being spent doing just that “teaching people to drink fresh water” because in the western world we have lost our way and cannot even feed ourselves properly any more. Your example is so true we do have to teach people to find an open space to provide genuine opportunities to be part of their future. Think again, you may be the best person to do just that and teach people about Open Space and it’s technology. Regards Rob > On 20 Aug 2019, at 7:31 pm, paul levy via OSList > wrote: > > For me, offering training in OST is like taking a day to train someone in how > to drink fresh water. > > Regards > > Paul Levy ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Dear Michael, That's about the size of it. Although perhaps we need to consider the usefulness of a binary position. Sic devil/god ( especially where anarchism - which really means self organisation I guess rather than the usual interpretation that we are given of disorder and chaos. If you are interested... https://libcom.org/library/self-management-spanish-revolution-point-blank And https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10./j.1743-4580.2010.00309.x Meanwhile... today I have been talking to one of our researchers about natural polymer wound dressings... all good I think and very non big pharma.. Best Karl On 20/08/2019, 12:02, "OSList on behalf of Michael M Pannwitz via OSList" wrote: Dear Karl, is "anarchistic" something that enters your mind when looking at "organisation"? Looking for "anarchistic organisation" wikipedia redirected me to "Anarchism". The first sentence there goes like this: "Anarchism is an anti-authoritarian political philosophy[1] that rejects hierarchies deemed unjust and advocates their replacement with self-managed, self-governed societies based on voluntary, cooperative institutions." Well, reading that, os came to my mind. I guess because my assumptions about os include ideas around "self-managed, self-governed, voluntary, cooperative". All characteristics that I feel could be part of what some of us called "interactive" or "open space" organisations. (In 2004,2005 and 2006 there was a series of annual gatherings in open space dealing with this issue in Krakow, Budapest, Istanbul). It appears that there are recurring efforts to come up with a type of organisation that is not the work of the devil. If someone burns for this issue and feels that "certification" or "Formalisation" of standard, ethics, code of conduct as a base for an association(organisation) will "get the job done", it will move forward if that someone invites to a gathering where folks sit in a circle, post their issues and go to work. It probably requires a face-to-face event. Greetings from Berlin where I amaze myself with what I busy myself with in my 80th year. Still have time to pick blackberries. mmp Am 20.08.2019 um 11:45 schrieb Royle, Karl via OSList: > You might look at examples from the past... the anarchists at the start of the Spanish civil war spring to mind > > Sent by iPhone > Karl Royle > Head of Enterprise and Commercial Development > > Faculty of Education Health and Wellbeing > University of Wolverhampton > 01902323006 > 07815416698 > @karlroyle. On Twitter > Karlr61 Skype > > >> On 20 Aug 2019, at 09:47, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> my assumption regarding "organisation" is that they are the work of the devil. >> They are omnipresent. There is practically nothing that can do without an "organisation". Government, churches, mafia, health care, schools, prisons, military, restaurants, foundations, associations, universities, concentration camps, secret service, sports, museums, shipyards, daycare, labour unions, political parties, courts, NGOs, NATO, ... you name it. >> Thinking beyond "organisations" seems impossible. >> Working for, in, against, with, through, in spite of, etc. "organisations" is omnipresent. >> And to make things even worse, they all are selforganising, right? >> And despite or because of their existence we have wars, starvation, pollution, glaciers disappearing, crime, corruption, you name it. >> Now, organisations not created by the devil but lets say by God would not create such a mess. >> One of the most lucrative businesses just about everywhere is consulting. Huge consulting firms work with/for/ect. huge businesses, governments, NGOs. Millions of folks work in that field helping them to become better, faster, etc. in the business they are involved in. >> >> Now, is ost something that consulting firms are into? >> >> There are some forms of "systems" such as neighborhoods, circles of friends, collegial counselling groups, OSonOS (local, regional, worldwide), people playing soccer with a tin can on a vacant lot, families, demonstrations (HongKong, Fridays for Future...), Stammtische... >> I smile in such settings, happy myself, grow myself... in such "settings" and also frustrate myself now and then. Especially when "control" enters the stage. >> And at some point many such "systems" or "settings" ossify when they take on the form of "organisations". In other words, the devil takes over. >> Some of us smell that when it approaches and say "no". And move on or drop out or fight or... >> >> Ok, this is stuff that comes up when I look at my "assumption" regarding "organisation". >>
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Dear Karl, is "anarchistic" something that enters your mind when looking at "organisation"? Looking for "anarchistic organisation" wikipedia redirected me to "Anarchism". The first sentence there goes like this: "Anarchism is an anti-authoritarian political philosophy[1] that rejects hierarchies deemed unjust and advocates their replacement with self-managed, self-governed societies based on voluntary, cooperative institutions." Well, reading that, os came to my mind. I guess because my assumptions about os include ideas around "self-managed, self-governed, voluntary, cooperative". All characteristics that I feel could be part of what some of us called "interactive" or "open space" organisations. (In 2004,2005 and 2006 there was a series of annual gatherings in open space dealing with this issue in Krakow, Budapest, Istanbul). It appears that there are recurring efforts to come up with a type of organisation that is not the work of the devil. If someone burns for this issue and feels that "certification" or "Formalisation" of standard, ethics, code of conduct as a base for an association(organisation) will "get the job done", it will move forward if that someone invites to a gathering where folks sit in a circle, post their issues and go to work. It probably requires a face-to-face event. Greetings from Berlin where I amaze myself with what I busy myself with in my 80th year. Still have time to pick blackberries. mmp Am 20.08.2019 um 11:45 schrieb Royle, Karl via OSList: You might look at examples from the past... the anarchists at the start of the Spanish civil war spring to mind Sent by iPhone Karl Royle Head of Enterprise and Commercial Development Faculty of Education Health and Wellbeing University of Wolverhampton 01902323006 07815416698 @karlroyle. On Twitter Karlr61 Skype On 20 Aug 2019, at 09:47, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList wrote: Dear all, my assumption regarding "organisation" is that they are the work of the devil. They are omnipresent. There is practically nothing that can do without an "organisation". Government, churches, mafia, health care, schools, prisons, military, restaurants, foundations, associations, universities, concentration camps, secret service, sports, museums, shipyards, daycare, labour unions, political parties, courts, NGOs, NATO, ... you name it. Thinking beyond "organisations" seems impossible. Working for, in, against, with, through, in spite of, etc. "organisations" is omnipresent. And to make things even worse, they all are selforganising, right? And despite or because of their existence we have wars, starvation, pollution, glaciers disappearing, crime, corruption, you name it. Now, organisations not created by the devil but lets say by God would not create such a mess. One of the most lucrative businesses just about everywhere is consulting. Huge consulting firms work with/for/ect. huge businesses, governments, NGOs. Millions of folks work in that field helping them to become better, faster, etc. in the business they are involved in. Now, is ost something that consulting firms are into? There are some forms of "systems" such as neighborhoods, circles of friends, collegial counselling groups, OSonOS (local, regional, worldwide), people playing soccer with a tin can on a vacant lot, families, demonstrations (HongKong, Fridays for Future...), Stammtische... I smile in such settings, happy myself, grow myself... in such "settings" and also frustrate myself now and then. Especially when "control" enters the stage. And at some point many such "systems" or "settings" ossify when they take on the form of "organisations". In other words, the devil takes over. Some of us smell that when it approaches and say "no". And move on or drop out or fight or... Ok, this is stuff that comes up when I look at my "assumption" regarding "organisation". I would like to hear more about your "assumptions" that come up when "organisation" enters your mind. Greetings from Berlin mmp Am 20.08.2019 um 00:04 schrieb R Chaffe via OSList: Chris, I look forward to Mark’s reply to your question. It seems to me that that the question mixes up the who and the what. Mark uses a few examples including a mechanic, the first question I have is what experience the trade person has my second is an example of their work. OST is at one level about the “how” the job is done and I think that is one level the question comes from. Being able to Open Space and engage effectively with the sponsor and the community of concern is an other level again. There is a level of trust between the sponsor and the facilitator that the result the sponsor wants will be delivered. The sponsor might ask how did you do that? I suggest that they are more interested on what you as facilitator delivered based on the contract. In many ways focusing on the how is counter productive the “what” is the thing that pays the bills and builds reputations. If m
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Dear Mark, at the end of your note your say: "...formalize them (standards, ethics, code of conduct) and help us get organized and stay organized until we get the job done." How would you describe the "job" to get done? Cheers mmp Am 19.08.2019 um 17:29 schrieb Mark Carmel via OSList: 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was something that did not Resonate well. Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but highly complex. As Harrison says.. chaos plows the fields of the mind so that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle right now. I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace and understanding in a more organized way? If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a city manager there are associations for that . Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has already articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized and stay organized until we get the job done? Respectfully submitted, Mark Carmel ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org -- Michael M Pannwitz Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany ++49 - 30-772 8000 mmpannw...@gmail.com Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 487 resident Open Space Workers in 76 countries working in a total of 142 countries worldwide www.openspaceworldmap.org At my publisher you find books and task cards on open space, most in German, some in English, some as ebooks, some multilingual https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Kommunikation ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
You might look at examples from the past... the anarchists at the start of the Spanish civil war spring to mind Sent by iPhone Karl Royle Head of Enterprise and Commercial Development Faculty of Education Health and Wellbeing University of Wolverhampton 01902323006 07815416698 @karlroyle. On Twitter Karlr61 Skype > On 20 Aug 2019, at 09:47, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList > wrote: > > Dear all, > > my assumption regarding "organisation" is that they are the work of the devil. > They are omnipresent. There is practically nothing that can do without an > "organisation". Government, churches, mafia, health care, schools, prisons, > military, restaurants, foundations, associations, universities, concentration > camps, secret service, sports, museums, shipyards, daycare, labour unions, > political parties, courts, NGOs, NATO, ... you name it. > Thinking beyond "organisations" seems impossible. > Working for, in, against, with, through, in spite of, etc. "organisations" is > omnipresent. > And to make things even worse, they all are selforganising, right? > And despite or because of their existence we have wars, starvation, > pollution, glaciers disappearing, crime, corruption, you name it. > Now, organisations not created by the devil but lets say by God would not > create such a mess. > One of the most lucrative businesses just about everywhere is consulting. > Huge consulting firms work with/for/ect. huge businesses, governments, NGOs. > Millions of folks work in that field helping them to become better, faster, > etc. in the business they are involved in. > > Now, is ost something that consulting firms are into? > > There are some forms of "systems" such as neighborhoods, circles of friends, > collegial counselling groups, OSonOS (local, regional, worldwide), people > playing soccer with a tin can on a vacant lot, families, demonstrations > (HongKong, Fridays for Future...), Stammtische... > I smile in such settings, happy myself, grow myself... in such "settings" and > also frustrate myself now and then. Especially when "control" enters the > stage. > And at some point many such "systems" or "settings" ossify when they take on > the form of "organisations". In other words, the devil takes over. > Some of us smell that when it approaches and say "no". And move on or drop > out or fight or... > > Ok, this is stuff that comes up when I look at my "assumption" regarding > "organisation". > > I would like to hear more about your "assumptions" that come up when > "organisation" enters your mind. > > Greetings from Berlin > mmp > > > >> Am 20.08.2019 um 00:04 schrieb R Chaffe via OSList: >> Chris, >> I look forward to Mark’s reply to your question. It seems to me that that >> the question mixes up the who and the what. Mark uses a few examples >> including a mechanic, the first question I have is what experience the trade >> person has my second is an example of their work. OST is at one level about >> the “how” the job is done and I think that is one level the question comes >> from. Being able to Open Space and engage effectively with the sponsor and >> the community of concern is an other level again. >> There is a level of trust between the sponsor and the facilitator that the >> result the sponsor wants will be delivered. The sponsor might ask how did >> you do that? I suggest that they are more interested on what you as >> facilitator delivered based on the contract. >> In many ways focusing on the how is counter productive the “what” is the >> thing that pays the bills and builds reputations. >> If my thinking is correct the struggle is to define a professional >> facilitator who can deliver is the issue not what tools they use when it >> comes to a contract. >> Regards >> Rob >>> On 20 Aug 2019, at 2:31 am, Chris Corrigan via OSList >>> wrote: >>> >>> Whenever I want to know if my work of Hosting an Open Space Technology >>> meeting was useful, I give the participants a form that sinplay says >>> “complete the following sentence. As a result of this meeting...” >>> >>> The only people who should be judging the efficacy of an OST meeting are >>> the people who called it in the first place to get their work done. In my >>> experience, they are happy if the meeting has helped them. >>> >>> My work is always directed towards client needs. Some times we do Open >>> Space. Sometimes we do it in a way that would drive a “by the book” person >>> crazy. But it’s about the clients. I doubt there is a way my process could >>> be formalized in a way that works better for my clients than sitting down >>> and listening to their needs. >>> >>> There is already a network of Open Space Institutes who steward this >>> practice. There is an international association of facilitators who can >>> join if you want certification. >>> >>> I find myself constantly wanting to defend this radical openness. Mark, >>> what is behind your string desire for something
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Twenty years ago when I needed to earn some money fast I remember considering offering a day's training in OST. I quickly decided against. In fact the decision made itself. For me, offering training in OST is like taking a day to train someone in how to drink fresh water. Regards Paul Levy On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 16:29, Mark Carmel via OSList < oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote: > 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for > certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was > something that did not Resonate well. > > Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of > peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but > highly complex. As Harrison says.. chaos plows the fields of the mind so > that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle > right now. > > I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world > to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living > spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the > standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be > organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace > and understanding in a more organized way? > > If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a > city manager there are associations for that . > > Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define > the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has > already articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized > and stay organized until we get the job done? > > Respectfully submitted, > Mark Carmel > > > ___ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Sure, no problem at all It's always good to have a few more flowers blooming, then there is more food for the bees. And we need the bees. I also think any activity can help reach out and engaging new people. I would be happy to help set it up. But it will only be one more flower in the grand open space of the many institutions supporting the open space around the world. /Kári On Mon, 19 Aug 2019, 22:38 Mark Carmel via OSList, < oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> wrote: > 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for > certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was > something that did not Resonate well. > > Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of > peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but > highly complex. As Harrison says.. chaos plows the fields of the mind so > that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle > right now. > > I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world > to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living > spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the > standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be > organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace > and understanding in a more organized way? > > If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a > city manager there are associations for that . > > Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define > the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has > already articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized > and stay organized until we get the job done? > > Respectfully submitted, > Mark Carmel > > > ___ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Dear all, my assumption regarding "organisation" is that they are the work of the devil. They are omnipresent. There is practically nothing that can do without an "organisation". Government, churches, mafia, health care, schools, prisons, military, restaurants, foundations, associations, universities, concentration camps, secret service, sports, museums, shipyards, daycare, labour unions, political parties, courts, NGOs, NATO, ... you name it. Thinking beyond "organisations" seems impossible. Working for, in, against, with, through, in spite of, etc. "organisations" is omnipresent. And to make things even worse, they all are selforganising, right? And despite or because of their existence we have wars, starvation, pollution, glaciers disappearing, crime, corruption, you name it. Now, organisations not created by the devil but lets say by God would not create such a mess. One of the most lucrative businesses just about everywhere is consulting. Huge consulting firms work with/for/ect. huge businesses, governments, NGOs. Millions of folks work in that field helping them to become better, faster, etc. in the business they are involved in. Now, is ost something that consulting firms are into? There are some forms of "systems" such as neighborhoods, circles of friends, collegial counselling groups, OSonOS (local, regional, worldwide), people playing soccer with a tin can on a vacant lot, families, demonstrations (HongKong, Fridays for Future...), Stammtische... I smile in such settings, happy myself, grow myself... in such "settings" and also frustrate myself now and then. Especially when "control" enters the stage. And at some point many such "systems" or "settings" ossify when they take on the form of "organisations". In other words, the devil takes over. Some of us smell that when it approaches and say "no". And move on or drop out or fight or... Ok, this is stuff that comes up when I look at my "assumption" regarding "organisation". I would like to hear more about your "assumptions" that come up when "organisation" enters your mind. Greetings from Berlin mmp Am 20.08.2019 um 00:04 schrieb R Chaffe via OSList: Chris, I look forward to Mark’s reply to your question. It seems to me that that the question mixes up the who and the what. Mark uses a few examples including a mechanic, the first question I have is what experience the trade person has my second is an example of their work. OST is at one level about the “how” the job is done and I think that is one level the question comes from. Being able to Open Space and engage effectively with the sponsor and the community of concern is an other level again. There is a level of trust between the sponsor and the facilitator that the result the sponsor wants will be delivered. The sponsor might ask how did you do that? I suggest that they are more interested on what you as facilitator delivered based on the contract. In many ways focusing on the how is counter productive the “what” is the thing that pays the bills and builds reputations. If my thinking is correct the struggle is to define a professional facilitator who can deliver is the issue not what tools they use when it comes to a contract. Regards Rob On 20 Aug 2019, at 2:31 am, Chris Corrigan via OSList wrote: Whenever I want to know if my work of Hosting an Open Space Technology meeting was useful, I give the participants a form that sinplay says “complete the following sentence. As a result of this meeting...” The only people who should be judging the efficacy of an OST meeting are the people who called it in the first place to get their work done. In my experience, they are happy if the meeting has helped them. My work is always directed towards client needs. Some times we do Open Space. Sometimes we do it in a way that would drive a “by the book” person crazy. But it’s about the clients. I doubt there is a way my process could be formalized in a way that works better for my clients than sitting down and listening to their needs. There is already a network of Open Space Institutes who steward this practice. There is an international association of facilitators who can join if you want certification. I find myself constantly wanting to defend this radical openness. Mark, what is behind your string desire for something more formal than what we already have? Chris. _ CHRIS CORRIGAN www.chriscorrigan.com On Aug 19, 2019, at 8:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote: 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was something that did not Resonate well. Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but highly complex. As Harrison says.. chaos plows the fields of the mind so that new ideas can grow... I think there is amp
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Chris, I look forward to Mark’s reply to your question. It seems to me that that the question mixes up the who and the what. Mark uses a few examples including a mechanic, the first question I have is what experience the trade person has my second is an example of their work. OST is at one level about the “how” the job is done and I think that is one level the question comes from. Being able to Open Space and engage effectively with the sponsor and the community of concern is an other level again. There is a level of trust between the sponsor and the facilitator that the result the sponsor wants will be delivered. The sponsor might ask how did you do that? I suggest that they are more interested on what you as facilitator delivered based on the contract. In many ways focusing on the how is counter productive the “what” is the thing that pays the bills and builds reputations. If my thinking is correct the struggle is to define a professional facilitator who can deliver is the issue not what tools they use when it comes to a contract. Regards Rob > On 20 Aug 2019, at 2:31 am, Chris Corrigan via OSList > wrote: > > Whenever I want to know if my work of Hosting an Open Space Technology > meeting was useful, I give the participants a form that sinplay says > “complete the following sentence. As a result of this meeting...” > > The only people who should be judging the efficacy of an OST meeting are the > people who called it in the first place to get their work done. In my > experience, they are happy if the meeting has helped them. > > My work is always directed towards client needs. Some times we do Open Space. > Sometimes we do it in a way that would drive a “by the book” person crazy. > But it’s about the clients. I doubt there is a way my process could be > formalized in a way that works better for my clients than sitting down and > listening to their needs. > > There is already a network of Open Space Institutes who steward this > practice. There is an international association of facilitators who can join > if you want certification. > > I find myself constantly wanting to defend this radical openness. Mark, what > is behind your string desire for something more formal than what we already > have? > > Chris. > > > _ > CHRIS CORRIGAN > www.chriscorrigan.com > >> On Aug 19, 2019, at 8:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList >> wrote: >> >> 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for >> certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was >> something that did not Resonate well. >> >> Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of >> peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but >> highly complex. As Harrison says.. chaos plows the fields of the mind so >> that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle >> right now. >> >> I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world to >> make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living >> spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the >> standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be >> organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace >> and understanding in a more organized way? >> >> If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a city >> manager there are associations for that . >> >> Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define the >> standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has already >> articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized and stay >> organized until we get the job done? >> >> Respectfully submitted, >> Mark Carmel >> >> >> ___ >> OSList mailing list >> To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org >> Past archives can be viewed here: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org > ___ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/osli
Re: [OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
Whenever I want to know if my work of Hosting an Open Space Technology meeting was useful, I give the participants a form that sinplay says “complete the following sentence. As a result of this meeting...” The only people who should be judging the efficacy of an OST meeting are the people who called it in the first place to get their work done. In my experience, they are happy if the meeting has helped them. My work is always directed towards client needs. Some times we do Open Space. Sometimes we do it in a way that would drive a “by the book” person crazy. But it’s about the clients. I doubt there is a way my process could be formalized in a way that works better for my clients than sitting down and listening to their needs. There is already a network of Open Space Institutes who steward this practice. There is an international association of facilitators who can join if you want certification. I find myself constantly wanting to defend this radical openness. Mark, what is behind your string desire for something more formal than what we already have? Chris. _ CHRIS CORRIGAN www.chriscorrigan.com > On Aug 19, 2019, at 8:29 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList > wrote: > > 1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for > certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was > something that did not Resonate well. > > Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of > peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but > highly complex. As Harrison says.. chaos plows the fields of the mind so > that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle > right now. > > I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world to > make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living spirit. > Because we have already set the standards why not cement the standards and > turn it into an everlasting association that could be organized to deliver > training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace and understanding in a > more organized way? > > If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a city > manager there are associations for that . > > Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define the > standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has already > articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized and stay > organized until we get the job done? > > Respectfully submitted, > Mark Carmel > > > ___ > OSList mailing list > To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org > To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org > Past archives can be viewed here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
[OSList] Okay...Forget Certification then...How about Co-Creating a NEW OST ASSOCIATION? Such as...THE International Association for Peace and Human Understanding...?
1st of all thank you for everyone who gave me feedback on my big idea for certification. It was sincerely appreciated. However I can see it was something that did not Resonate well. Open space technology has clearly set the standard for the facilitation of peace and human understanding. It is such a powerful and simple tool but highly complex. As Harrison says.. chaos plows the fields of the mind so that new ideas can grow... I think there is ample chaos for us to tackle right now. I think it is highly important for the leadership of our open space world to make a decision now while we still have Harrison among us as a living spirit. Because we have already set the standards why not cement the standards and turn it into an everlasting association that could be organized to deliver training, etc. To advance the mission of human peace and understanding in a more organized way? If you want to be a beautician or a mechanic or a rocket scientist or a city manager there are associations for that . Why not an association for open space technology practitioners to define the standards, the ethics, code of conduct, the way that Harrison has already articulated them, but to formalize them and help us get organized and stay organized until we get the job done? Respectfully submitted, Mark Carmel ___ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org