Re: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective.
Hi, Tom, You're right (again). I confused collectors with investors. I feel great shame. The true collector (which I'm sure would include anyone on this list that collects cameras - whatever their values, vintages and capabilities) loves that which he or she collects. If usable, they will be used - at least once in a while, just to prove that they are still worthy cameras. Of course there will be those cameras that are simply not to be used, due to great age/fragility/value. An investor wouldn't care if he's collecting cameras, cars or Haitian Voodoo masks. He doesn't acquire them to enjoy, he seeks profit, and will dispose of the items when such profits are maximized (or at least when he hopes they are). Thanks for setting me straight. regards, frank Tom Rittenhouse wrote: > No, I think not. > > There collectors and there are investors. The investor don't give a diddlely > about what they invest in all they are interested in is making money. A > collector loves what he acquires, he fondles it, shows it to anyone who will > look, and unless it is so valuable it would be stupid, sometimes even then, > he uses it. > > A strange thing about investors in collectibles is that they never seem to > realize they are buying retail and selling wholesale. Go figure > > Ciao, > graywolf > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective.
No, I think not. There collectors and there are investors. The investor don't give a diddlely about what they invest in all they are interested in is making money. A collector loves what he acquires, he fondles it, shows it to anyone who will look, and unless it is so valuable it would be stupid, sometimes even then, he uses it. A strange thing about investors in collectibles is that they never seem to realize they are buying retail and selling wholesale. Go figure Ciao, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 1:58 PM Subject: Re: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective. > Hi, Tom, > > You are, of course, correct. If I have more than one camera, then I guess I'm a > collector. That is an entirely valid use of the term. > > When I think or say collector, I think of that type of person who purchases > something for a purpose which (at least partially) is other than that for which > the device is designed for. Something intended to be put in a closet or garage, > usually so it can appreciate in value - or at least not depreciate through > ordinary usage. > > Of course, the extreme is someone who buys, let's say, a "collector's edition" > Leica (or whatever - I just mention Leica because they make so damned many > "collector's editions"), never takes it out of the box, lest it's value be > compromised by allowing it to see air or sunlight! This, imho, is an > abomination, and he will never get into Photography Heaven that way. > > So yeah, I guess that I collect 50's to 70's usable Japanese cameras that were > made in the millions, and are still available very inexpensively. I also try > for cameras that will take a pretty good photo (given an opportunity by a good > photographer). > > Of course, I just got a Voigtlander Vito for $2 the other day on eBay (no, I > didn't forget any zeros - $2), so now I think I'll have to drop the "Japanese" > from my collection description. > > I guess there are collectors, and there are COLLECTORS. :-) > > regards, > frank > > Tom Rittenhouse wrote: > > > But you are a collector. To take photos you only need one camera. The fact > > you have several proves you are a collector. Malcom's friend probably drives > > those trucks too, now and then. > > > > Frankly, I don't know why so many photographers refuse to accept they are > > collectors, maybe not serious ones, or they would have a collection that had > > a theme (all the screw mount Pentax bodies, for instance), the we are > > collectors. My camera collection has pretty much been serial, a few at a > > time, over the years, but still I am a camera collector. Some times I am a > > photographer too. :-) > > -- > "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist > fears it is true." -J. Robert > Oppenheimer > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective.
Frank, Excuse the one liner reply, but that's an very good point of view. Malcolm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of frank theriault Sent: 23 December 2001 18:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective. Hi, Tom, You are, of course, correct. If I have more than one camera, then I guess I'm a collector. That is an entirely valid use of the term. When I think or say collector, I think of that type of person who purchases something for a purpose which (at least partially) is other than that for which the device is designed for. Something intended to be put in a closet or garage, usually so it can appreciate in value - or at least not depreciate through ordinary usage. Of course, the extreme is someone who buys, let's say, a "collector's edition" Leica (or whatever - I just mention Leica because they make so damned many "collector's editions"), never takes it out of the box, lest it's value be compromised by allowing it to see air or sunlight! This, imho, is an abomination, and he will never get into Photography Heaven that way. So yeah, I guess that I collect 50's to 70's usable Japanese cameras that were made in the millions, and are still available very inexpensively. I also try for cameras that will take a pretty good photo (given an opportunity by a good photographer). Of course, I just got a Voigtlander Vito for $2 the other day on eBay (no, I didn't forget any zeros - $2), so now I think I'll have to drop the "Japanese" from my collection description. I guess there are collectors, and there are COLLECTORS. :-) regards, frank Tom Rittenhouse wrote: > But you are a collector. To take photos you only need one camera. The fact > you have several proves you are a collector. Malcom's friend probably drives > those trucks too, now and then. > > Frankly, I don't know why so many photographers refuse to accept they are > collectors, maybe not serious ones, or they would have a collection that had > a theme (all the screw mount Pentax bodies, for instance), the we are > collectors. My camera collection has pretty much been serial, a few at a > time, over the years, but still I am a camera collector. Some times I am a > photographer too. :-) -- "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective.
Hi, Tom, You are, of course, correct. If I have more than one camera, then I guess I'm a collector. That is an entirely valid use of the term. When I think or say collector, I think of that type of person who purchases something for a purpose which (at least partially) is other than that for which the device is designed for. Something intended to be put in a closet or garage, usually so it can appreciate in value - or at least not depreciate through ordinary usage. Of course, the extreme is someone who buys, let's say, a "collector's edition" Leica (or whatever - I just mention Leica because they make so damned many "collector's editions"), never takes it out of the box, lest it's value be compromised by allowing it to see air or sunlight! This, imho, is an abomination, and he will never get into Photography Heaven that way. So yeah, I guess that I collect 50's to 70's usable Japanese cameras that were made in the millions, and are still available very inexpensively. I also try for cameras that will take a pretty good photo (given an opportunity by a good photographer). Of course, I just got a Voigtlander Vito for $2 the other day on eBay (no, I didn't forget any zeros - $2), so now I think I'll have to drop the "Japanese" from my collection description. I guess there are collectors, and there are COLLECTORS. :-) regards, frank Tom Rittenhouse wrote: > But you are a collector. To take photos you only need one camera. The fact > you have several proves you are a collector. Malcom's friend probably drives > those trucks too, now and then. > > Frankly, I don't know why so many photographers refuse to accept they are > collectors, maybe not serious ones, or they would have a collection that had > a theme (all the screw mount Pentax bodies, for instance), the we are > collectors. My camera collection has pretty much been serial, a few at a > time, over the years, but still I am a camera collector. Some times I am a > photographer too. :-) -- "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective.
on 12/23/01 12:25 PM, Tom Rittenhouse at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > But you are a collector. To take photos you only need one camera. The fact > you have several proves you are a collector. Malcom's friend probably drives > those trucks too, now and then. > > Frankly, I don't know why so many photographers refuse to accept they are > collectors, maybe not serious ones, or they would have a collection that had > a theme (all the screw mount Pentax bodies, for instance), the we are > collectors. My camera collection has pretty much been serial, a few at a > time, over the years, but still I am a camera collector. Some times I am a > photographer too. :-) Maybe yes, maybe no. I have 5 35mm SLRs, 2 35mm RFs, 2 TLRs, 2 6x6 and and old Mini Speed Graphic. Sounds like a collector except for the fact that NONE of the cameras have the exact same feature set and film format. Except the 2 6x6 which are a Salyut-S and a backup Keiv88. I also have a number of non-working cameras saved for parts for the future. A non-collector. JeffW. P.S. Camera list Pentax ZX-5n Ricoh XR-1 Chinon CP-6 Mamiya DTL1000 Pentax SV (on the way) Yashica EM Yashica 24 Kiev 88 Salyut-S Mini Speed Graphic with 6x7 roll film back and sheet film backs - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective.
But you are a collector. To take photos you only need one camera. The fact you have several proves you are a collector. Malcom's friend probably drives those trucks too, now and then. Frankly, I don't know why so many photographers refuse to accept they are collectors, maybe not serious ones, or they would have a collection that had a theme (all the screw mount Pentax bodies, for instance), the we are collectors. My camera collection has pretty much been serial, a few at a time, over the years, but still I am a camera collector. Some times I am a photographer too. :-) Ciao, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 12:06 PM Subject: Re: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective. > Hi, Malcolm, > > You call that an OT post? Geez, you mentioned (not one, but) two Pentax models, > and your post was at least peripherally about photography! No mention of guns, > gun control, SUV's, Australia, Fosters beer, etc, etc. ;-) > > But yeah, I get that too: why do you need another camera? I patiently explain > to whomever that the most I've paid for any of the current cameras I now have > (all are used) is a bit less than $100 Canadian for my Yashica Mat. For most, I > paid far less - like under $30. > > But even if I did have a brand new LX, 6x7, or whatever, what of it? It quite > pales in comparison to, for instance, your example of vintage cars, boats, > cottages or houses that one actually owns (as opposed to the little apartment > that I rent). > > "Actually", I try patiently explaining to these silly people, "I don't NEED > another camera/lens/whatever, I choose to spend a very small portion of my > discretionary income on them." I also become frustrated trying to point out > that, "no, I'm not a collector, because firstly, all of my cameras are users, > and do in fact get used with some regularity, and secondly, none of these > cameras is in anyway rare, expensive or collectible". > > Ah, well, no use trying to explain anything to these people, though. I prefer > to simply enjoy my hobby, and take enough piccies that eventually, one turns out > half-decent! > > regards, > frank > > Malcolm Smith wrote: > > > This is an off topic post so feel free to delete now. > > > > I am fortunate that I have known/know some real characters in life, one of > > which I met today whilst doing the Christmas shopping. I hadn't seen him for > > a while, and chat made its way around to what was acquired for Xmas, and I > > mentioned my new LX. > > > > Well, he got on his soapbox (in a most amusing manner) ridiculing my need > > for another camera, stating that perhaps I was taking photography to > > extremes. > > > > I shook his hand, wished his family a happy Christmas, winked at his wife > > (NO, not an LX or MX wink) and shook my head at her. > > > > My friend collects vintage commercial vehicles!! > > > > No more off topic posts for a while, but I hope you enjoyed the double > > standards of the above. Plus remember, you may have your other half not keen > > on photography, but at least you can say it could be way. worse. > > > > Malcolm > > - > > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . > > -- > "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist > fears it is true." -J. Robert > Oppenheimer > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective.
Ah, but, you see. He thinks you take pictures. Tell him you collect cameras. He will understand. Mind you he will still think you are dippy (who the hell wants to collect cameras, or Barbie dolls, for that matter), but he will understand. He's a collector himself. Ciao, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Malcolm Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 11:26 AM Subject: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective. > This is an off topic post so feel free to delete now. > > I am fortunate that I have known/know some real characters in life, one of > which I met today whilst doing the Christmas shopping. I hadn't seen him for > a while, and chat made its way around to what was acquired for Xmas, and I > mentioned my new LX. > > Well, he got on his soapbox (in a most amusing manner) ridiculing my need > for another camera, stating that perhaps I was taking photography to > extremes. > > I shook his hand, wished his family a happy Christmas, winked at his wife > (NO, not an LX or MX wink) and shook my head at her. > > My friend collects vintage commercial vehicles!! > > No more off topic posts for a while, but I hope you enjoyed the double > standards of the above. Plus remember, you may have your other half not keen > on photography, but at least you can say it could be way. worse. > > Malcolm > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Vs: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective.
Perspective is OK - on Friday I saw a Yashica A on shop window - priced at the equivalent of 150 USD - crazy. My first camera was a Yashica A and it did cost about 15 USD then - and this is it´s current value, too IMHO. All the best! Raimo Personal photography homepage at http://personal.inet.fi/private/raimo.korhonen -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Vastaanottaja: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Päivä: 23. joulukuuta 2001 18:24 Aihe: Re: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective. >Hi, Malcolm, > >You call that an OT post? Geez, you mentioned (not one, but) two Pentax models, >and your post was at least peripherally about photography! No mention of guns, >gun control, SUV's, Australia, Fosters beer, etc, etc. ;-) > >But yeah, I get that too: why do you need another camera? I patiently explain >to whomever that the most I've paid for any of the current cameras I now have >(all are used) is a bit less than $100 Canadian for my Yashica Mat. For most, I >paid far less - like under $30. > >But even if I did have a brand new LX, 6x7, or whatever, what of it? It quite >pales in comparison to, for instance, your example of vintage cars, boats, >cottages or houses that one actually owns (as opposed to the little apartment >that I rent). > >"Actually", I try patiently explaining to these silly people, "I don't NEED >another camera/lens/whatever, I choose to spend a very small portion of my >discretionary income on them." I also become frustrated trying to point out >that, "no, I'm not a collector, because firstly, all of my cameras are users, >and do in fact get used with some regularity, and secondly, none of these >cameras is in anyway rare, expensive or collectible". > >Ah, well, no use trying to explain anything to these people, though. I prefer >to simply enjoy my hobby, and take enough piccies that eventually, one turns out >half-decent! > >regards, >frank > >Malcolm Smith wrote: > >> This is an off topic post so feel free to delete now. >> >> I am fortunate that I have known/know some real characters in life, one of >> which I met today whilst doing the Christmas shopping. I hadn't seen him for >> a while, and chat made its way around to what was acquired for Xmas, and I >> mentioned my new LX. >> >> Well, he got on his soapbox (in a most amusing manner) ridiculing my need >> for another camera, stating that perhaps I was taking photography to >> extremes. >> >> I shook his hand, wished his family a happy Christmas, winked at his wife >> (NO, not an LX or MX wink) and shook my head at her. >> >> My friend collects vintage commercial vehicles!! >> >> No more off topic posts for a while, but I hope you enjoyed the double >> standards of the above. Plus remember, you may have your other half not keen >> on photography, but at least you can say it could be way. worse. >> >> Malcolm - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective.
But yeah, I get that too: why do you need another camera? I patiently explain to whomever that the most I've paid for any of the current cameras I now have (all are used) is a bit less than $100 Canadian for my Yashica Mat. For most, I paid far less - like under $30. Thanks Frank, As you know I enjoy using older cameras and I have a budget to keep too. But even if I had pots of cash and Leica M6s etc. it wouldn't make me a better photographer, just someone taking the same pictures on more expensive equipment. No more, no less. Malcolm - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective.
Malcolm Smith wrote: > > > I shook his hand, wished his family a happy Christmas, winked at his wife... HAR! That'll teach him. I hope she winked back :-) - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective.
Hi, Malcolm, You call that an OT post? Geez, you mentioned (not one, but) two Pentax models, and your post was at least peripherally about photography! No mention of guns, gun control, SUV's, Australia, Fosters beer, etc, etc. ;-) But yeah, I get that too: why do you need another camera? I patiently explain to whomever that the most I've paid for any of the current cameras I now have (all are used) is a bit less than $100 Canadian for my Yashica Mat. For most, I paid far less - like under $30. But even if I did have a brand new LX, 6x7, or whatever, what of it? It quite pales in comparison to, for instance, your example of vintage cars, boats, cottages or houses that one actually owns (as opposed to the little apartment that I rent). "Actually", I try patiently explaining to these silly people, "I don't NEED another camera/lens/whatever, I choose to spend a very small portion of my discretionary income on them." I also become frustrated trying to point out that, "no, I'm not a collector, because firstly, all of my cameras are users, and do in fact get used with some regularity, and secondly, none of these cameras is in anyway rare, expensive or collectible". Ah, well, no use trying to explain anything to these people, though. I prefer to simply enjoy my hobby, and take enough piccies that eventually, one turns out half-decent! regards, frank Malcolm Smith wrote: > This is an off topic post so feel free to delete now. > > I am fortunate that I have known/know some real characters in life, one of > which I met today whilst doing the Christmas shopping. I hadn't seen him for > a while, and chat made its way around to what was acquired for Xmas, and I > mentioned my new LX. > > Well, he got on his soapbox (in a most amusing manner) ridiculing my need > for another camera, stating that perhaps I was taking photography to > extremes. > > I shook his hand, wished his family a happy Christmas, winked at his wife > (NO, not an LX or MX wink) and shook my head at her. > > My friend collects vintage commercial vehicles!! > > No more off topic posts for a while, but I hope you enjoyed the double > standards of the above. Plus remember, you may have your other half not keen > on photography, but at least you can say it could be way. worse. > > Malcolm > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . -- "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
OT: An Xmas discussion about hobbies and putting them in perspective.
This is an off topic post so feel free to delete now. I am fortunate that I have known/know some real characters in life, one of which I met today whilst doing the Christmas shopping. I hadn't seen him for a while, and chat made its way around to what was acquired for Xmas, and I mentioned my new LX. Well, he got on his soapbox (in a most amusing manner) ridiculing my need for another camera, stating that perhaps I was taking photography to extremes. I shook his hand, wished his family a happy Christmas, winked at his wife (NO, not an LX or MX wink) and shook my head at her. My friend collects vintage commercial vehicles!! No more off topic posts for a while, but I hope you enjoyed the double standards of the above. Plus remember, you may have your other half not keen on photography, but at least you can say it could be way. worse. Malcolm - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
