Setting aperture -- film SLRs
A quick question, something I am curious about -- I've read a lot here about the compatibility of older lenses on newer bodies, but what about the other way? Specifically, on film bodies without a thumbwheel (MZ-S, ZX-5n, etc), how do you change the aperture when the lens is set on "A" or the lens does not have an aperture ring? Is there a way to directly change the aperture on the body? I assume you can affect aperture indirectly by changing shutter speed, but can you operate in Av mode? Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? Thanks. *>UncaMikey
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
Unca Mikey wrote: A quick question, something I am curious about -- I've read a lot here about the compatibility of older lenses on newer bodies, but what about the other way? Specifically, on film bodies without a thumbwheel (MZ-S, ZX-5n, etc), how do you change the aperture when the lens is set on "A" or the lens does not have an aperture ring? Is there a way to directly change the aperture on the body? I assume you can affect aperture indirectly by changing shutter speed, but can you operate in Av mode? Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? Thanks. *>UncaMikey That *is* an issue. If the body you are using doesn't allow you to set aperture "in body", and/or doesn't support an auto-aperture mode, you will only be able to shoot wide open.
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
I believe most of the newer film SLRs aside from the *ist and ZX-30/50/60 assume you want to be in program or shutter priority if the lens is set to "A" or lacks manual settings. The old bodies that don't utilize the "A" setting pretty much can't use a lens that doesn't have manual aperture settings, according to bdimitrov's site. For details on a specific camera body, I usually just download the user's manual from Pentax and give it a flip-through. --- Unca Mikey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A quick question, something I am curious about -- > I've read a lot > here about the compatibility of older lenses on > newer bodies, but > what about the other way? > > Specifically, on film bodies without a thumbwheel > (MZ-S, ZX-5n, etc), > how do you change the aperture when the lens is set > on "A" or the > lens does not have an aperture ring? Is there a way > to directly > change the aperture on the body? I assume you can > affect aperture > indirectly by changing shutter speed, but can you > operate in Av mode? > > Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the > MX? > > Thanks. > > *>UncaMikey > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
I think you've answered your own question Tom C. From: Unca Mikey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: PDML Subject: Setting aperture -- film SLRs Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:41:08 -0500 A quick question, something I am curious about -- I've read a lot here about the compatibility of older lenses on newer bodies, but what about the other way? Specifically, on film bodies without a thumbwheel (MZ-S, ZX-5n, etc), how do you change the aperture when the lens is set on "A" or the lens does not have an aperture ring? Is there a way to directly change the aperture on the body? I assume you can affect aperture indirectly by changing shutter speed, but can you operate in Av mode? Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? Thanks. *>UncaMikey I think you've answered your own question.
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
To expand on Tom's ellipsis: On film bodies without an aperture control thumbwheel, you take the lens aperture ring off the "A" setting and use the aperture ring. For lenses that do not have an aperture ring, those bodies without aperture thumb wheels can control the aperture using Program and Shutter priority AE settings. You can only use Manual exposure and Aperture priority AE with these lenses' minimum aperture as there is no way to manually set an aperture value. For example, the DA14 lens mounted on an MX body (manual metering only) operates as an f/22 lens and covers approximately a 24x24mm image on film. You meter using only the exposure time control. (Use fast film and have a tripod/ cable release handy: it can do a lot more than you might think!) Godfrey On Apr 11, 2006, at 8:55 AM, Tom C wrote: I think you've answered your own question From: Unca Mikey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> A quick question, something I am curious about -- I've read a lot here about the compatibility of older lenses on newer bodies, but what about the other way? Specifically, on film bodies without a thumbwheel (MZ-S, ZX-5n, etc), how do you change the aperture when the lens is set on "A" or the lens does not have an aperture ring? Is there a way to directly change the aperture on the body? I assume you can affect aperture indirectly by changing shutter speed, but can you operate in Av mode? Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX?
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
On 4/11/06, Unca Mikey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Specifically, on film bodies without a thumbwheel (MZ-S, ZX-5n, etc), > how do you change the aperture when the lens is set on "A" or the > lens does not have an aperture ring? Is there a way to directly > change the aperture on the body? I assume you can affect aperture > indirectly by changing shutter speed, but can you operate in Av mode? If the camera does not support aperture changes in the body, you cannot manually change the aperture on the lens. If the body supports Tv, then you can use the lens on the A setting. You should also be able to use lenses without aperture rings on bodies that have Tv. If the body does not have Tv or some sort of aperture control, then the lens cannot be used without adjusting the aperture ring. > > Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? The MX is manual only. Lenses set on A and lenses without aperture rings can only be used wide open. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com -- "You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman
RE: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
I did? I was afraid I suspected the answer, but wasn't sure. All I know about Pentax bodies between the Spotmatic and the *ist I've read on the internets, and we all know how reliable they can be. Thanks David and Jon for the info. That makes the design of the *ist 35mm even more curious -- once one becomes used to that mode of operation and those lenses, the migration path is not to other film SLRs, but to a digital SLR! Fiendishly clever!All the other bodies with the crippled KAF look pretty low-end, plastic mounts, limited features, etc. *>UncaMikey ---"Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think you've answered your own question Tom C
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:49:29 +0200, David Oswald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Unca Mikey wrote: A quick question, something I am curious about -- I've read a lot here about the compatibility of older lenses on newer bodies, but what about the other way? Specifically, on film bodies without a thumbwheel (MZ-S, ZX-5n, etc), how do you change the aperture when the lens is set on "A" or the lens does not have an aperture ring? Is there a way to directly change the aperture on the body? I assume you can affect aperture indirectly by changing shutter speed, but can you operate in Av mode? Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? That *is* an issue. If the body you are using doesn't allow you to set aperture "in body", and/or doesn't support an auto-aperture mode, you will only be able to shoot wide open. Worse: like Godfrey said, you will only be able to shoot fully closed down... -- Regards, Lucas
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
On Apr 11, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Scott Loveless wrote: Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? The MX is manual only. Lenses set on A and lenses without aperture rings can only be used wide open. Fully stopped down, not wide open. Wide open would be easier for hand holding; fully stopped down means more need for tripod and cable release, harder to focus. Godfrey
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 12:55:12PM -0400, Scott Loveless wrote: > > > > Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? > > The MX is manual only. Lenses set on A and lenses without aperture > rings can only be used wide open. I believe lenses set on "A" will behave as if set to f22 (although the metering circuitry may very well believe they're set to f32). I'd guess lenses without aperture rings will behave the same way, and stop all the way down, rather than remaining wide open.
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:00:08 +0200, Unca Mikey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: That makes the design of the *ist 35mm even more curious -- once one becomes used to that mode of operation and those lenses, the migration path is not to other film SLRs, but to a digital SLR! Fiendishly clever!All the other bodies with the crippled KAF look pretty low-end, plastic mounts, limited features, etc. There are several Z- and MZ- (PZ- and ZX-, if you wish) bodies that allow control of the aperture from the body. I am sure of the MZ-50, the Z-1 and Z-1p. I suspect it couls also true be of all the SF's, the other Z's the MZ-6, -7, -10, -30 and -60 (AF lenses only). Enough to migrate to :o) -- Regards, Lucas
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:11:25 +0200, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Apr 11, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Scott Loveless wrote: Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? The MX is manual only. Lenses set on A and lenses without aperture rings can only be used wide open. Fully stopped down, not wide open. Wide open would be easier for hand holding; fully stopped down means more need for tripod and cable release, harder to focus. Harder to focus? My lenses on 'a' only stop down when I press the shutter on a MX. Focussing and light-metering is wide open. Or am I missing your point? -- Regards, Lucas
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
On 4/11/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Apr 11, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Scott Loveless wrote: > > >> Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? > > > > The MX is manual only. Lenses set on A and lenses without aperture > > rings can only be used wide open. > > Fully stopped down, not wide open. > Wide open would be easier for hand holding; fully stopped down means > more need for tripod and cable release, harder to focus. > My mistake. You are correct, sir. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com -- "You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
On Apr 11, 2006, at 10:26 AM, Lucas Rijnders wrote: On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:11:25 +0200, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Apr 11, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Scott Loveless wrote: Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? The MX is manual only. Lenses set on A and lenses without aperture rings can only be used wide open. Fully stopped down, not wide open. Wide open would be easier for hand holding; fully stopped down means more need for tripod and cable release, harder to focus. Harder to focus? My lenses on 'a' only stop down when I press the shutter on a MX. Focussing and light-metering is wide open. Or am I missing your point? That's right, the MX will hold the aperture wide open but will always go to minimum lens opening (f/22 - f/32) at exposure time, no intermediate f/stops can be selected. My mistake, I misspoke. Godfrey
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
> There are several Z- and MZ- (PZ- and ZX-, if you wish) bodies that allow > control of the aperture from the body. I am sure of the MZ-50, the Z-1 and > Z-1p. Z10 doesn't (well it is a P and M only camera). Z20, Z50, Z70 will also control the aperture from the body. > I suspect it couls also true be of all the SF's, the other Z's the MZ-6, > -7, -10, -30 and -60 (AF lenses only). Enough to migrate to :o) Low-end MZ will control aperture IMO (30,50,60) but maybe not the MZ10, not sure. MZS, MZ5, MZ3 will NOT control the aperture. The SFX at least will not. AFAIR an A lens will mean TV or P mode. Suspect the same for SF7. > Regards, Lucas > > -- -- Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ...
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
I believe that is a fair prediction based on what I've seen with my cameras. Pentax manuals do state that using the "A" setting on a body that doesn't support it will result in incorrect metering. As the aperture ring is closed down to "A", the aperture simulator tab on the mount continues to go past f/22, yet the aperture gets no smaller. This was observed by me on an A50/2. --- John Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I believe lenses set on "A" will behave as if set to > f22 (although > the metering circuitry may very well believe they're > set to f32). > I'd guess lenses without aperture rings will behave > the same way, > and stop all the way down, rather than remaining > wide open. > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
It depends on the lenses I think. Sometimes A equals 22, sometimes 32 ( or aperture is unreliable, you chose :). I guess that a lens showing 22 then A. You put that lens on your any *ist or Z1 etc in AV mode. If you can select 32, than A equals 32. Simple enough ;) On 4/11/06, Jon Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I believe that is a fair prediction based on what I've > seen with my cameras. Pentax manuals do state that > using the "A" setting on a body that doesn't support > it will result in incorrect metering. > > As the aperture ring is closed down to "A", the > aperture simulator tab on the mount continues to go > past f/22, yet the aperture gets no smaller. This was > observed by me on an A50/2. > > > --- John Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I believe lenses set on "A" will behave as if set to > > f22 (although > > the metering circuitry may very well believe they're > > set to f32). > > I'd guess lenses without aperture rings will behave > > the same way, > > and stop all the way down, rather than remaining > > wide open. > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > -- -- Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ...
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
Unca Mikey wrote: A quick question, something I am curious about -- I've read a lot here about the compatibility of older lenses on newer bodies, but what about the other way? Specifically, on film bodies without a thumbwheel (MZ-S, ZX-5n, etc), how do you change the aperture when the lens is set on "A" or the lens does not have an aperture ring? Is there a way to directly change the aperture on the body? I assume you can affect aperture indirectly by changing shutter speed, but can you operate in Av mode? On the ZX-5n, you don't change the aperture from the body. Av mode and manual require an aperture ring, which you'll turn to set the aperture. I've always assumed the MZ-S was the same, but never actually used one. With the ZX-10, the PZ-1 (and, I suppose, some other bodies) the aperture can be changed by the user either from the body or with the aperture ring. Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? If it doesn't have an aperture ring, I can't see any way it could be used on such a body. ERNR
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
You're MZ-S assumption is correct. Jack --- "E.R.N. Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Unca Mikey wrote: > > > A quick question, something I am curious about -- I've read a lot > here > > about the compatibility of older lenses on newer bodies, but what > > about the other way? > > > > Specifically, on film bodies without a thumbwheel (MZ-S, ZX-5n, > etc), > > how do you change the aperture when the lens is set on "A" or the > lens > > does not have an aperture ring? Is there a way to directly change > the > > aperture on the body? I assume you can affect aperture indirectly > by > > changing shutter speed, but can you operate in Av mode? > > On the ZX-5n, you don't change the aperture from the body. Av mode > and > manual require an aperture ring, which you'll turn to set the > aperture. > I've always assumed the MZ-S was the same, but never actually used > one. > With the ZX-10, the PZ-1 (and, I suppose, some other bodies) the > aperture can be changed by the user either from the body or with the > aperture ring. > > > > > Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? > > If it doesn't have an aperture ring, I can't see any way it could be > used on such a body. > > ERNR > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
- Original Message - From: "Unca Mikey" Subject: Setting aperture -- film SLRs A quick question, something I am curious about -- I've read a lot here about the compatibility of older lenses on newer bodies, but what about the other way? Specifically, on film bodies without a thumbwheel (MZ-S, ZX-5n, etc), how do you change the aperture when the lens is set on "A" or the lens does not have an aperture ring? Is there a way to directly change the aperture on the body? I assume you can affect aperture indirectly by changing shutter speed, but can you operate in Av mode? Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? You can use the non aperture ring lenses on cameras that have programmed AE or shutter preferred AE at apertures other than fully stopped down. The Super Program/ Program Plus, P3, P5, and most of the PZ/MZ cameras are able to use these lenses. William Robb
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
Yeah, so.. say you have a DA 14mm. You can use it on a SuperA/SuperProgram in either TV or P mode. Of course it won't cover the full 24x36 frame but that's another story ... On 4/12/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "Unca Mikey" > Subject: Setting aperture -- film SLRs > > > >A quick question, something I am curious about -- I've read a lot here > >about the compatibility of older lenses on newer bodies, but what about the > >other way? > > > > Specifically, on film bodies without a thumbwheel (MZ-S, ZX-5n, etc), how > > do you change the aperture when the lens is set on "A" or the lens does > > not have an aperture ring? Is there a way to directly change the aperture > > on the body? I assume you can affect aperture indirectly by changing > > shutter speed, but can you operate in Av mode? > > > > Are such lenses even usable on older bodies like the MX? > > You can use the non aperture ring lenses on cameras that have programmed AE > or shutter preferred AE at apertures other than fully stopped down. > The Super Program/ Program Plus, P3, P5, and most of the PZ/MZ cameras are > able > to use these lenses. > > William Robb > > > -- -- Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ...
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
- Original Message - From: "Thibouille" Subject: Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs Yeah, so.. say you have a DA 14mm. You can use it on a SuperA/SuperProgram in either TV or P mode. Of course it won't cover the full 24x36 frame but that's another story ... And your point is??? William Robb
Re: Setting aperture -- film SLRs
Wanted to explain in another way, if it wasn't clear enough. I understood well a while ago, but wasn't sure it was clear enough to everybody. > And your point is??? > > William Robb -- -- Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ...
