Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Astron Power Supply Alert

[Facility 406 DM09]

I don't know if anyone recalls this, but there was a bad run of rectifiers
on most of their linear supplies in the late-90's.  Astron shipped out
replacement rectifiers free of charge.  Replacement was easy, one machine
screw and nut to secure the rectifier and four space connectors.  From what
I recall, there MAY have been an AC ripple problem, but most notable was
that the power supply got VERY hot from the rectifier shorting out
internally.  In a worst case, I saw one spew smoke several feet into the air
under pressure from around the potting compound.

Kurt

- Original Message -
From: "WA Brown" 

: What is wrong with the power supply? Here is the contact info for Astron.

[Repeater-Builder] !

[Facility 406 DM09]

: I certainly hope the quality of their power supplies doesn't match that of
: their e-mail address...
:
: They CAN'T be serious?
:
: Kurt
:
: - Original Message -
:
: LOL! Nothing says "we're reputable and here to stay" like a company e-mail
: address at yahoo.com! Nothing against the power supplies, my 1995-vintage
: RS35 still works fine, but sheesh!

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood tk-370

[Marcus]

we have a company here in New Zealand Called Pacific Arieals in Auckland 
they deal or dealt with Kenwood R/T's
also at best i have an old Tk370 im sure of it sitting here some where 
almost stuffed, and a few aerials, in the UHF band


doing *.* but collecting dust on there *.*'s

Marcus



kerinvale wrote:
 

Hi guys .Would anyone know where we can replacement antenna parts for 
the Kenwood tk-370.
I am chasing the sma-f antenna socket in the top of the radio and also 
a antenna but seem to be having trouble finding a supplier or 
replacement parts
 


Thank You,
Ian Wells,
Kerinvale Comaudio,
361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715
Ph 0749922449 or 0409159932 or 0749922574
www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au 
 

 

[Repeater-Builder] OT - Company contactl issues

[Chuck Kelsey]

Personally, I find it annoying that probably 50% of the emails (regardless 
of domain) or web contact pages that I've attempted to make with various 
vendors ultimately results in no response from them. For many companies a 
web presence is an extremely low priority. Such a shame.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Facility 406 DM09" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:06 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] !


>: I certainly hope the quality of their power supplies doesn't match that 
>of
> : their e-mail address...
> :
> : They CAN'T be serious?
> :
> : Kurt
> :
> : - Original Message -
> :
> : LOL! Nothing says "we're reputable and here to stay" like a company 
> e-mail
> : address at yahoo.com! Nothing against the power supplies, my 
> 1995-vintage
> : RS35 still works fine, but sheesh!
>
>
>
>
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MICOR Squelch clones

[no6b]

At 10/22/2009 19:15, you wrote:


>I disagree that an audio delay board negates the positive effect of a 
>MICOR squelch.

...and let's not forgot that many simply don't like ADMs.  Ever try to 
operate full-duplex with a quarter second delay on the repeat audio?  Also 
if the squelch chops the signal at all, an ADM set to a long delay can turn 
those muted valleys into muted peaks, creating a problem with the squelch 
where none existed before.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MICOR Squelch clones

[Kevin Custer]

n...@no6b.com wrote:

At 10/22/2009 19:15, you wrote:


  
I disagree that an audio delay board negates the positive effect of a 
MICOR squelch.



...and let's not forget that many simply don't like ADMs.  Ever try to 
operate full-duplex with a quarter second delay on the repeat audio?  Also 
if the squelch chops the signal at all, an ADM set to a long delay can turn 
those muted valleys into muted peaks, creating a problem with the squelch 
where none existed before.


Bob NO6B


This is where the MICOR squelch shines.  If you ever heard a UHF 
repeater with a poor carrier squelch (kendecom comes to mind), no matter 
how loose the squelch is set, mobiles in deep flutter chop up the 
audio.  The human brain is not as good at putting broken words together 
where the break is a total dead absence.  On the contrary, if the broken 
word is bridged with noise, the brain can fill in the blanks, and a 
severely broken sentence can make sense.  While this problem is worse on 
UHF where close spaced deep nulls can occur more frequently, the 
situation exists on VHF as well. 

Motorola did a lot or research on this subject during the Space Program 
of the late 1960's.  The result is the MICOR squelch many try to 
replicate.  If anyone that is interested in this subject would like to 
learn more about the what the Motorola engineers take on it was, I 
suggest you get a copy of a MICOR manual and read the theory.


Kevin Custer

[Repeater-Builder] RLC 3 fs

[Rick Szajkowski]

RLC3 FS

comes with
5 radio cards (302.50 X 5 = 1512.50)
1 I/O
1 phone patch (165)

asking price $1300 USD + shipping

Project fell through so we are sticking with what we have now

so you are getting the whole controller for less then the radio cards and
phone patch

Thanks for looking

Rick VA3 RZS

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MICOR Squelch clones

[mwbesemer]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Kevin Custer wrote:

> n...@no6b.com wrote:
>> At 10/22/2009 19:15, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I disagree that an audio delay board negates the positive effect of 
>>> a MICOR squelch.
>>>
>>
>> ...and let's not forget that many simply don't like ADMs.  Ever try 
>> to operate full-duplex with a quarter second delay on the repeat 
>> audio?  Also if the squelch chops the signal at all, an ADM set to a 
>> long delay can turn those muted valleys into muted peaks, creating a 
>> problem with the squelch where none existed before.
>>
>> Bob NO6B
>
> This is where the MICOR squelch shines.  If you ever heard a UHF 
> repeater with a poor carrier squelch (kendecom comes to mind), no 
> matter how loose the squelch is set, mobiles in deep flutter chop up 
> the audio.  The human brain is not as good at putting broken words 
> together where the break is a total dead absence.  On the contrary, if 
> the broken word is bridged with noise, the brain can fill in the 
> blanks, and a severely broken sentence can make sense.  While this 
> problem is worse on UHF where close spaced deep nulls can occur more 
> frequently, the situation exists on VHF as well. Motorola did a lot or 
> research on this subject during the Space Program of the late 1960's. 
> The result is the MICOR squelch many try to replicate.  If anyone that 
> is interested in this subject would like to learn more about the what 
> the Motorola engineers take on it was, I suggest you get a copy of a 
> MICOR manual and read the theory.
>
> Kevin Custer

Kevin,

Thanks for that explanation... you're spot-on with your observation 
about how difficult it is to understand spoken-word chopped up Kendecom 
style!  My system is on VHF, but exhibits exactly the behavior you 
describe and it's very difficult if not impossible to make any sense out 
of what is being said.  Before you explanation, I could not rationalize 
why, but it makes good sense now.

Eventually I'll try putting a Micor squelch into it.  I'm sure I can 
find the proper place to tap/interrupt the existing squelch circuit with 
a bit of detective work/trial and error.

73,

Mike
WM4B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MICOR Squelch clones

[Kevin Custer]

mwbese...@cox.net wrote:
Thanks for that explanation... you're spot-on with your observation 
about how difficult it is to understand spoken-word chopped up Kendecom 
style!  My system is on VHF, but exhibits exactly the behavior you 
describe and it's very difficult if not impossible to make any sense out 
of what is being said.  Before you explanation, I could not rationalize 
why, but it makes good sense now.


Eventually I'll try putting a Micor squelch into it.  I'm sure I can 
find the proper place to tap/interrupt the existing squelch circuit with 
a bit of detective work/trial and error.



Mike,

On the Kendecom receiver, there is a discriminator output available.  I 
don't have a manual handy to tell you the exact location on the board - 
sorry.  Connect the MICOR squelch boards input to this pin, supply it 
with power, and use the logic output to drive your controllers COS input 
- observing proper logic polarity.  It's as simple as that.


Kevin

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MICOR Squelch clones

[mwbesemer]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Kevin Custer wrote:

   mwbese...@cox. net  wrote: Thanks for that 
explanation. .. you're spot-on with your observation

about how difficult it is to understand spoken-word chopped up Kendecom
style!  My system is on VHF, but exhibits exactly the behavior you
describe and it's very difficult if not impossible to make any sense out
of what is being said.  Before you explanation, I could not rationalize
why, but it makes good sense now.

Eventually I'll try putting a Micor squelch into it.  I'm sure I can
find the proper place to tap/interrupt the existing squelch circuit with
a bit of detective work/trial and error.

Mike,

On the Kendecom receiver, there is a discriminator output available.  I 
don't have a manual handy to tell you the exact location on the board - 
sorry.  Connect the MICOR squelch boards input to this pin, supply it 
with power, and use the logic output to drive your controllers COS input 
- observing proper logic polarity.  It's as simple as that.


Kevin
 








Kevin, 




Don't I have to disable the existing squelch circuit as well to prevent 
it from muting the RX? 




Mike 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MICOR Squelch clones

[Kevin Custer]

mwbese...@cox.net wrote:

Mike,
On the Kendecom receiver, there is a discriminator output available.  
I don't have a manual handy to tell you the exact location on the 
board - sorry.  Connect the MICOR squelch boards input to this pin, 
supply it with power, and use the logic output to drive your 
controllers COS input - observing proper logic polarity.  It's as 
simple as that.


Kevin


Kevin, 

Don't I have to disable the existing squelch circuit as well to 
prevent it from muting the RX? 

Mike 




Yes, that will be done when you connect the logic of the new squelch 
board to drive the controllers COS.  Only the COS from the MICOR board 
should be connected to the controllers COS input, replacing the original 
COS logic from the receiver.  Some controllers require a presence of 
voltage to validate activity on the channel, some require a ground.  The 
Link-Comm MICOR squelch board (RLC-MOT) will supply either logic 
polarity, making installation easy.


Kevin

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MICOR Squelch clones

[mwbesemer]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Kevin Custer wrote:

   mwbese...@cox. net  wrote: Mike,
On the Kendecom receiver, there is a discriminator output available.  I 
don't have a manual handy to tell you the exact location on the board - 
sorry.  Connect the MICOR squelch boards input to this pin, supply it 
with power, and use the logic output to drive your controllers COS input 
- observing proper logic polarity.  It's as simple as that.


Kevin


Kevin, 

Don't I have to disable the existing squelch circuit as well to prevent 
it from muting the RX? 

Mike 



Yes, that will be done when you connect the logic of the new squelch 
board to drive the controllers COS.  Only the COS from the MICOR board 
should be connected to the controllers COS input, replacing the original 
COS logic from the receiver.  Some controllers require a presence of 
voltage to validate activity on the channel, some require a ground.  The 
Link-Comm MICOR squelch board (RLC-MOT) will supply either logic 
polarity, making installation easy.


Kevin



Luckily, I happen to have a manual copy with me today.  I just took a 
quick glance... seems pretty straightforward. 




Where'd I put the round-tuit? 




73, 




Mike 

WM4B 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: MICOR Squelch clones

[skipp025]

> Kevin Custer  wrote:
> I disagree that an audio delay board negates the positive 
> effect of a MICOR squelch. 

Not in every example... but in many cases adding an external 
Micor Squelch Board/Circuit can be an over-kill expense when 
the audio delay operation (of some, not all) repeater 
controllers cleans up a multitude of sins (noise). 

It's not a negation... just over-kill in some examples.  

> I have several  repeaters where the controllers utilize 
> an audio delay and MICOR squelch and none of them suffer any 
> deficiencies because of the presence of the audio delay.  
> In fact, it's nice to have a clean squelch tail after 
> someone unkeys that exhibits a C/N that produces the 
> longer tail. 

I agree... but do some of you guys really need to add the 
external Micor Squelch Board to an already decent squelch 
circuit when any noise crash is cleaned up by by the external 
repeater controller's ADM (audio delay module)? 

What's funny to me about the above statement... I don't 
normally use ADM Modules and how I'm just trying to play 
Devil's Advocate in this example. 

Harken back to those early ACC Repeater Controller days 
when many of us realized how nice the added ADM Module 
removed the receiver squelch crash. Made a few of us building 
repeaters actually sound like we knew what we were doing... 
:-) ... a question I still ask myself quite often. 

> I think we need to get to the reasons why a multi-hysteresis 
> squelch works and why it is desired. 

It works very well, but it's not desired by all in the Kingdom. 
I much prefer a very fast dual-level squelch circuit. In my 
personal preference based on actual weak signal examples the 
slow speed operation of the Micor Squelch Chip is kind of 
annoying when I compare it to a properly set fast dual squelch 
circuit. 

Yeah, it would be fun to revisit squelch circuit operation. 

> Then determine if there is a need for a "real" MICOR clone. 
> I say real, because in my opinion, the microprocessor 
> knock-offs that are available are not equivalents, none 
> the less superior to the original analog design.

Some of the uP based Squelch Circuits are not even close to 
the Micor Operation. They might work O'Tay, but they are not 
the same. 

> Kevin Custer

Would you buy a used car from anyone posting to this group?  

cheers, 
s. 

PS: I will say that in most cases I try to avoid using 
Audio Delay Modules to hide squelch crash noise. The fast 
dual level squelch circuits I like to use sounds muy bien 
(great). 

[Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means

[George]

i have MTVA converta-com 800mhz with the mts2000 inside the cradle and the 
control unit NTN1325B has amplifier in it and switching RF TX-RX relay. i hear 
it clicking between PTT. now the cradle has a switch that says PAC-RT on and 
off. what does this do? (no manual)

Re: [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means

[MCH]

It switches on a vehicular repeater. PAC stands for Portable Area 
Coverage. I forget what the RT stands for.

Joe M.

George wrote:
> i have MTVA converta-com 800mhz with the mts2000 inside the cradle and the 
> control unit NTN1325B has amplifier in it and switching RF TX-RX relay. i 
> hear it clicking between PTT. now the cradle has a switch that says PAC-RT on 
> and off. what does this do? (no manual)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 
> 05:58:00
> 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means

[Andrew Seybold]

Pac-rt or Pack Rats are they are called, is a low-powered repeater which
is tied to the main mobile radio in a police or fire vehicle, when the
officier leaves the vehicle he normally takes the HT, and the HT then
talks through the PAC-RT back to the base station. This was first done
where the mobile units were low band (30-50 MHz) and there were no good
HTs available, CHP uses them on 154.905 for their 42 MHz dispatch system

 

Andy

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:57 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means

 

  

i have MTVA converta-com 800mhz with the mts2000 inside the cradle and
the control unit NTN1325B has amplifier in it and switching RF TX-RX
relay. i hear it clicking between PTT. now the cradle has a switch that
says PAC-RT on and off. what does this do? (no manual)

Re: [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means

[Chuck Kelsey]

A PAC-RT is essentially an HT extender that routes your HT through the 
mobile radio, making the mobile radio a "repeater."

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "George" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 12:56 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means


>i have MTVA converta-com 800mhz with the mts2000 inside the cradle and the 
>control unit NTN1325B has amplifier in it and switching RF TX-RX relay. i 
>hear it clicking between PTT. now the cradle has a switch that says PAC-RT 
>on and off. what does this do? (no manual)
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means

[Chris Robinson]

I always found  their selection of radios to be a bit odd until about 10
years ago. For a while they would use the GE system in the car and a
motorola for other systems, but the two would never really synch properly
and there was always the drop out every few seconds that was only about a
half second long but none the less annoying! i think they have changed
systems now and odnt have this issue anymore.

 Oh how I use to miss the days of California, now you couldnt pay me enough
to move back!

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Andrew Seybold  wrote:

>
>
>  Pac-rt or Pack Rats are they are called, is a low-powered repeater which
> is tied to the main mobile radio in a police or fire vehicle, when the
> officier leaves the vehicle he normally takes the HT, and the HT then talks
> through the PAC-RT back to the base station. This was first done where the
> mobile units were low band (30-50 MHz) and there were no good HTs available,
> CHP uses them on 154.905 for their 42 MHz dispatch system
>
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *George
> *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 9:57 AM
> *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means
>
>
>
>
>
> i have MTVA converta-com 800mhz with the mts2000 inside the cradle and the
> control unit NTN1325B has amplifier in it and switching RF TX-RX relay. i
> hear it clicking between PTT. now the cradle has a switch that says PAC-RT
> on and off. what does this do? (no manual)
>
>   
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means

[Andrew Seybold]

Just to be clear the "drop" is planned, it is designed so that when
multiple cars are on the same scene only one of them has a PAC-RT in
operation, otherwise it would be a zoo-so the drop is really the
synchronization of multiple PAC-RTs, the first system I was involved in
was in the mid-1970's and was the state of Ohio, then on to California
and the CHP, and Nevada used to use PAC-Rts. Also, today you can find a
lot of the mobile repeaters around-and they make good portable
repeaters-HOWEVER, most of them, at least the GE ones, made sure that
the receiver sensitivity was very poor so that it only picked up local
HT traffic. If you have one you will find that in the first receiver
stage-the ICOM and associated components, there are a number of caps
which have been left out in order to keep the receiver deaf.

 

Andy W6AMS

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Robinson
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:11 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means

 

  

I always found  their selection of radios to be a bit odd until about 10
years ago. For a while they would use the GE system in the car and a
motorola for other systems, but the two would never really synch
properly and there was always the drop out every few seconds that was
only about a half second long but none the less annoying! i think they
have changed systems now and odnt have this issue anymore.

 Oh how I use to miss the days of California, now you couldnt pay me
enough to move back!

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Andrew Seybold
 wrote:

  

Pac-rt or Pack Rats are they are called, is a low-powered repeater which
is tied to the main mobile radio in a police or fire vehicle, when the
officier leaves the vehicle he normally takes the HT, and the HT then
talks through the PAC-RT back to the base station. This was first done
where the mobile units were low band (30-50 MHz) and there were no good
HTs available, CHP uses them on 154.905 for their 42 MHz dispatch system

 

Andy

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:57 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means

 

  

i have MTVA converta-com 800mhz with the mts2000 inside the cradle and
the control unit NTN1325B has amplifier in it and switching RF TX-RX
relay. i hear it clicking between PTT. now the cradle has a switch that
says PAC-RT on and off. what does this do? (no manual)

 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: MICOR Squelch clones

[skipp025]

> > Kevin wrote: 
> > The human brain is not as good at putting broken words 
> > together where the break is a total dead absence.  On 
> > the contrary, if the broken word is bridged with noise, 
> > the brain can fill in the blanks, and a severely broken 
> > sentence can make sense. 

I suspect the untrained ear (brain) is more distracted by 
the transition from audio to silence versus the audio to 
noise change. A key issue is the interplay of actual audio 
level (quantity) transitions. The DSP brain software in 
the untrained ear/head appears to better serial sort choppy 
signals because the noise can (and in most cases does) act 
as space fillers (timing) or place holders. 

Noise can also be very fatiguing...

Motorola also invented a very impressive repeater dual 
squelch system, very fast and when properly set removes 
much of the fatiguing unintelligible loss of signal noise. 

Different from the Micor Squelch Chip, but also very 
effective. 

> > Motorola did a lot or research on this subject during 
> > the Space Program of the late 1960's.  The result is 
> > the MICOR squelch many try to replicate.  If anyone 
> > that is interested in this subject would like to learn 
> > more about the what the Motorola engineers take on it 
> > was, I suggest you get a copy of a MICOR manual and 
> > read the theory.

Motorola later incorporated their dual-squelch level system 
in the late 1970's, early 1980's. You can find an actual 
example of it in the MSR-2000 Repeater Manual(s). The fly 
in the soup is how the large majority of MSR-2000 people 
fail to read and completely understand the MSR-2K's Squelch 
Circuit operation and of course they rarely set control 
values for optimal (best) operation. If you remove the MSR 
Modules and install your external repeater controller direct 
to the back-plane... you of course lose the MSR-2000 squelch 
circuit. 

Both the Micor and MSR-2000 type of squelch circuits are 
excellent in operation. 

> Mike wrote: 
> Thanks for that explanation... you're spot-on with 
> your observation about how difficult it is to understand 
> spoken-word chopped up Kendecom style!  

But the observation may not be the root/real cause... 

> My system is on VHF, but exhibits exactly the behavior 
> you describe and it's very difficult if not impossible 
> to make any sense out of what is being said.  Before 
> your explanation, I could not rationalize why, but it 
> makes good sense now.

A number of early FM Receiver Squelch Circuits and 
the first Doug Hall Voter suffered from "voice talk 
off" problems.  But a number of us figured out how to 
work around or modify the circuit for more reliable 
operation. 

If you have the time and motivation... we could talk 
about fairly simple modifications to the squelch 
circuit to supply less voice, more high frequency 
noise audio to the (squelch) rectifier section. In 
some cases it's just about your installing or modding 
that section of the circuit with a simple high or band 
pass audio circuit (some capacitors and resistors). 

If you're a time restricted or plug and play person 
the credit card provides many very practical options. 
Sometimes you buy your bait, save and enjoy more time 
fishing with friends... and that also makes good sense.  


cheers, 
s. 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[skipp025]

> Just to be clear the "drop" is planned, it is designed 
> so that when multiple cars are on the same scene only 
> one of them has a PAC-RT in operation, otherwise it would 
> be a zoo-so the drop is really the synchronization of 
> multiple PAC-RTs, 

The drop is a receiver "sample window" to allow the person 
(officer) with the portable the ability to quickly capture 
the return path (transmitter control) back to the dispatcher. 

Multiple "vehicular repeaters" listen for both activity and 
tones/codes to setup and maintain a queue of operation so 
only one repeater responds within a very local on scene 
coverage area. 

The sample and priority window values can be adjusted or 
disabled if you only have one unit for personal use or 
don't expect to use it for fast reply (emergency service) 
work.

> ..the CHP, and Nevada used to use PAC-Rts. 

Pac-RT is the Motorola Name, GE made a version and Pyramid 
currently makes and sells them. (of course I'm a Dealer 
for Pyramid). I'm told Vertex and probably Icom also 
make them. 

Most of the current CHP vehicles use the GE or a special 
Pyramid (clone of the GE) unit.  

> Also, today you can find a lot of the mobile repeaters 
> around-and they make good portable repeaters-

The Motorola and GE repeaters have specific special cables 
to interface to different radio models. You would normally 
need the proper cable and in some cases a matching radio 
with the corresponding control/interface circuit. The Pyramid 
and newer brand repeaters are much more generic in regards 
to the different radio brands/models they work/interface 
with. 

> HOWEVER, most of them, at least the GE ones, made sure 
> that the receiver sensitivity was very poor so that it 
> only picked up local HT traffic. 

A target value of about 50uV (micro volts) RX Sensitivity 
was specified by a number of agencies. Two officers on each 
side of a freeway/highway should be able to operate independent 
of each other.

> If you have one you will find that in the first receiver
> stage-the ICOM and associated components, there are a number 
> of caps which have been left out in order to keep the 
> receiver deaf.
 
I've seen resistive pads and on board attenuators used to 
"numb up" the receiver front ends. They can be removed easy 
enough... 

> >  I always found  their selection of radios to be a bit 
> > odd until about 10 years ago. For a while they would use 
> > the GE system in the car and a Motorola for other systems, 

Government Public Safety (an oxymoron)

> > but the two would never really synch properly and there 
> > was always the drop out every few seconds that was only 
> > about a half second long but none the less annoying! 

That is the receiver listen window mentioned above... 

> > I think they have changed systems now and don't have 
> > this issue anymore.

Can be different sounding by design and programming... see 
the above text. 

> > Oh how I use to miss the days of California, now you 
> > couldn't pay me enough to move back!

Plenty of work out here... minimum wage and all the pride 
you can swallow. 

s. 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Andrew Seybold]

Correct—David and it DID work  ONLY when they keep their radios in the 
charger—on the CA CHP system if you listen on 154.905 you will clearly hear the 
beep as they exit their car—it is also a great way of keeping track of CHP cars 
which are close to you since all of the traffic they receive on their low-band 
radios is rebroadcast on the 154.905 channel if they do not have their portable 
in the charger and most don’t.

 

Andy

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dmur...@verizon.net
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:28 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

 

  

Had a problem with the PAC-RTs when I worked in Virginia for the State Police. 
Most of the officers did not put the portable in the charger so when more than 
one officer arrived on the scene and took their portables with them all PAC-RTs 
would transmit when the officer would key his portable. When the portable is 
removed from the charger a tone is emitted to let other PAC-RTs set their 
counters so they do not repeat. Only the last one to arrive on the scene and 
pull his portable form the charger would repeat. If another unit arrives and 
pulls the portable from the charger that one is now the one repeating.


David


Oct 23, 2009 06:21:21 PM, Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com wrote:

  



> Just to be clear the "drop" is planned, it is designed 
> so that when multiple cars are on the same scene only 
> one of them has a PAC-RT in operation, otherwise it would 
> be a zoo-so the drop is really the synchronization of 
> multiple PAC-RTs, 

The drop is a receiver "sample window" to allow the person 
(officer) with the portable the ability to quickly capture 
the return path (transmitter control) back to the dispatcher. 

Multiple "vehicular repeaters" listen for both activity and 
tones/codes to setup and maintain a queue of operation so 
only one repeater responds within a very local on scene 
coverage area. 

The sample and priority window values can be adjusted or 
disabled if you only have one unit for personal use or 
don't expect to use it for fast reply (emergency service) 
work.

> ..the CHP, and Nevada used to use PAC-Rts. 

Pac-RT is the Motorola Name, GE made a version and Pyramid 
currently makes and sells them. (of course I'm a Dealer 
for Pyramid). I'm told Vertex and probably Icom also 
make them. 

Most of the current CHP vehicles use the GE or a special 
Pyramid (clone of the GE) unit. 

> Also, today you can find a lot of the mobile repeaters 
> around-and they make good portable repeaters-

The Motorola and GE repeaters have specific special cables 
to interface to different radio models. You would normally 
need the proper cable and in some cases a matching radio 
with the corresponding control/interface circuit. The Pyramid 
and newer brand repeaters are much more generic in regards 
to the different radio brands/models they work/interface 
with. 

> HOWEVER, most of them, at least the GE ones, made sure 
> that the receiver sensitivity was very poor so that it 
> only picked up local HT traffic. 

A target value of about 50uV (micro volts) RX Sensitivity 
was specified by a number of agencies. Two officers on each 
side of a freeway/highway should be able to operate independent 
of each other.

> If you have one you will find that in the first receiver
> stage-the ICOM and associated components, there are a number 
> of caps which have been left out in order to keep the 
> receiver deaf.

I've seen resistive pads and on board attenuators used to 
"numb up" the receiver front ends. They can be removed easy 
enough... 

> > I always found their selection of radios to be a bit 
> > odd until about 10 years ago. For a while they would use 
> > the GE system in the car and a Motorola for other systems, 

Government Public Safety (an oxymoron)

> > but the two would never really synch properly and there 
> > was always the drop out every few seconds that was only 
> > about a half second long but none the less annoying! 

That is the receiver listen window mentioned above... 

> > I think they have changed systems now and don't have 
> > this issue anymore.

Can be different sounding by design and programming... see 
the above text. 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[George]

ok, now how to make it work for me? i have msf5000 working with my spectra and 
mts2000. does the mts2000 need to be programmed to work with the mtva, second: 
if i use another handheld GTX how do i program the mtva to work together with 
the mts2000 GTX and spectra so that the msf5000 can hear at least one of them. 
does the amplifier unt NTN1325B need to be programmed to work as repeater?

[Repeater-Builder] Audio Delay

[Cort Buffington]

Let's not forget that eliminating a noise crash isn't the only reason  
for an audio delay. Helping my echolink node not get confused about  
what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose for having the  
delay.

They audio delay keeps the first blip of DTMF from getting decoded by  
anything other than the controller.

--
Cort Buffington
H: +1-785-838-3034
M: +1-785-865-7206

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Nate Duehr]

How did the units know when the officers left the scene?  By them
putting the HT back in the charger I assume?

Pretty smart plan, actually.  Neat.

I take it if they forgot or tossed it on the seat when taking
off, they could be cut off from comm until they stuffed it back
in the charger, or was there a really long failsafe timer
that would turn the micro-repeater back on?  I guess there
probably couldn't be... or some day long event with multiple
units, would certainly have the repeater's re-enabling
themselves...?
--
  Nate Duehr
  n...@natetech.com


On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:28 -0500, dmur...@verizon.net wrote:


Had a problem with the PAC-RTs when I worked in Virginia for the
State Police. Most of the officers did not put the portable in
the charger so when more than one officer arrived on the scene
and took their portables with them all PAC-RTs would transmit
when the officer would key his portable. When the portable is
removed from the charger a tone is emitted to let other PAC-RTs
set their counters so they do not repeat. Only the last one to
arrive on the scene and pull his portable form the charger would
repeat. If another unit arrives and pulls the portable from the
charger that one is now the one repeating.
David
Oct 23, 2009 06:21:21 PM, [1]repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.
com wrote:


> Just to be clear the "drop" is planned, it is designed
> so that when multiple cars are on the same scene only
> one of them has a PAC-RT in operation, otherwise it would
> be a zoo-so the drop is really the synchronization of
> multiple PAC-RTs,
The drop is a receiver "sample window" to allow the person
(officer) with the portable the ability to quickly capture
the return path (transmitter control) back to the dispatcher.
Multiple "vehicular repeaters" listen for both activity and
tones/codes to setup and maintain a queue of operation so
only one repeater responds within a very local on scene
coverage area.
The sample and priority window values can be adjusted or
disabled if you only have one unit for personal use or
don't expect to use it for fast reply (emergency service)
work.
> ..the CHP, and Nevada used to use PAC-Rts.
Pac-RT is the Motorola Name, GE made a version and Pyramid
currently makes and sells them. (of course I'm a Dealer
for Pyramid). I'm told Vertex and probably Icom also
make them.
Most of the current CHP vehicles use the GE or a special
Pyramid (clone of the GE) unit.
> Also, today you can find a lot of the mobile repeaters
> around-and they make good portable repeaters-
The Motorola and GE repeaters have specific special cables
to interface to different radio models. You would normally
need the proper cable and in some cases a matching radio
with the corresponding control/interface circuit. The Pyramid
and newer brand repeaters are much more generic in regards
to the different radio brands/models they work/interface
with.
> HOWEVER, most of them, at least the GE ones, made sure
> that the receiver sensitivity was very poor so that it
> only picked up local HT traffic.
A target value of about 50uV (micro volts) RX Sensitivity
was specified by a number of agencies. Two officers on each
side of a freeway/highway should be able to operate independent
of each other.
> If you have one you will find that in the first receiver
> stage-the ICOM and associated components, there are a number
> of caps which have been left out in order to keep the
> receiver deaf.
I've seen resistive pads and on board attenuators used to
"numb up" the receiver front ends. They can be removed easy
enough...
> > I always found their selection of radios to be a bit
> > odd until about 10 years ago. For a while they would use
> > the GE system in the car and a Motorola for other systems,
Government Public Safety (an oxymoron)
> > but the two would never really synch properly and there
> > was always the drop out every few seconds that was only
> > about a half second long but none the less annoying!
That is the receiver listen window mentioned above...
> > I think they have changed systems now and don't have
> > this issue anymore.
Can be different sounding by design and programming.
.. see
the above text.
> > Oh how I use to miss the days of California, now you
> > couldn't pay me enough to move back!
Plenty of work out here... minimum wage and all the pride
you can swallow.
s.




References

1. mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
2. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/message/95174;_ylc=X3oDMTM1MDhvY21kBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEbXNnSWQDOTUxODIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjU2MzIyNDk0BHRwY0lkAzk1MTc0
3. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwMmJuOW81BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEbXNnSWQDOTUxODIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjU2MzIyNDk0?act=reply&messageNum=95182
4. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaDVoaGVkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRz

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[skipp025]

> on the CA CHP system if you listen on 154.905 you will 
> clearly hear the beep as they exit their car

Called the "lock tone". 

> ...it is also a great way of keeping track of CHP cars 
> which are close to you since all of the traffic they 
> receive on their low-band radios is rebroadcast on the 
> 154.905 channel if they do not have their portable in 
> the charger and most don't 

Only when they are on scene... the GE Ranger mobile radio 
control head is programmed to send out beep tones when 
the "extender" (repeater) is enabled... so it's aurally 
obvious to the officer when the repeater is left on while 
they are inside the car. 

s. 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

[skipp025]

> Cort Buffington  wrote:
> Let's not forget that eliminating a noise crash isn't 
> the only reason for an audio delay. 

another Amen from the crowd... 

> Helping my echolink node not get confused about  
> what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose 
> for having the delay.

Audio delay lines are killer (great) for use with VOX 
(voice) operated logic... and a must have for many 
simulcast transmission packages. 

> The audio delay keeps the first blip of DTMF from getting 
> decoded by anything other than the controller.

Yeah, but it doesn't keep that pesky kid with his VOX 
operated tape recorder on the repeater input from having 
a go at the control codes. So we figured out a way to 
deal with that issue and have a little fun with him at 
the same time. 

Arcom (Ken) has a new type of ADM for the 210 Controller. 
It's pretty neat if you want to experiment around with a 
very fairly priced circuit. 

s. 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[skipp025]

> Andy, if I remember correctly I think the counter only 
> went to 10. After that well I would hope there were not 
> more that 10 officers at any one scene.
> Probably different is CA.
> David 

10 was the number put on paper by a few manufactures. 

The max vehicular repeater queue amount depended on who 
made the unit (brand) and the model. Some were factory 
4, factory 8, 10, 14 and I think one brand/model goes 
to 25. 

Most officers know to leave their extenders off if/when 
they pull up to a crowd of co-agency vehicles at an 
incident. 

s. 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MICOR Squelch clones

[Paul Plack]

You guys have talked past each other slightly...

Kevin, if he's not using straight discriminator audio into the controller, but 
picking off de-emph audio downstream from the Kendecom squelch gate, there will 
be times he has COS from the Micor module but no audio reaching the controller.

Workarounds might include:

(1) Leave the original squelch control open
(2) Tap and buffer discriminator audio using a discreet or LM386 stage with R/C 
filter to provide unsquelched but de-emph audio for the controller
(3) Use the COS signal from the Micor module to both provide COS to the 
controller and switch the Kendecom's audio gate

I'd try for (3).

73,
Paul, AE4KR

- Original Message - 
  From: Kevin Custer 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:03 AM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MICOR Squelch clones




Kevin,
Don't I have to disable the existing squelch circuit as well to prevent it 
from muting the RX?
Mike


  Yes, that will be done when you connect the logic of the new squelch board to 
drive the controllers COS.  Only the COS from the MICOR board should be 
connected to the controllers COS input, replacing the original COS logic from 
the receiver.  Some controllers require a presence of voltage to validate 
activity on the channel, some require a ground.  The Link-Comm MICOR squelch 
board (RLC-MOT) will supply either logic polarity, making installation easy.

  Kevin

  . 

  

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[skipp025]

> "Nate Duehr"  wrote:
> How did the units know when the officers left the scene?  
> By them putting the HT back in the charger I assume?
> 
> Pretty smart plan, actually.  Neat.
> 
> I take it if they forgot or tossed it on the seat when taking
> off, they could be cut off from comm until they stuffed it back
> in the charger, or was there a really long failsafe timer
> that would turn the micro-repeater back on?  I guess there
> probably couldn't be... or some day long event with multiple
> units, would certainly have the repeater's re-enabling
> themselves...?

Each vehicle repeater has a (random) internal counter, which 
generates and increases an internal queue number when it hears 
any arrival lock tone. Each units queue number is different 
than any other on scene co-channel operation (extender). 

All extender units listen to the same radio traffic... when the 
priority (highest queue number) unit travels out of range the 
other on scene units start their queue timer counting down 
when their receivers compare active versus missing radio traffic. 
The first extender "counting down" to reach the number one spot starts 
transmitting while the other higher number queue remain in 
standby/idle mode. 

Probably took some strong coffee and a pop-tart to figure that 
concept out... but it does work very well. 

s. 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

[Cort Buffington]

My main machine has one of the new Arcom 3-port delay modules. I  
wasn't overly impressed with the previous Arcom one, but the new one  
is a really nice board.


On Oct 23, 2009, at 2:48 PM, skipp025 wrote:




> Cort Buffington  wrote:
> Let's not forget that eliminating a noise crash isn't
> the only reason for an audio delay.

another Amen from the crowd...

> Helping my echolink node not get confused about
> what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose
> for having the delay.

Audio delay lines are killer (great) for use with VOX
(voice) operated logic... and a must have for many
simulcast transmission packages.

> The audio delay keeps the first blip of DTMF from getting
> decoded by anything other than the controller.

Yeah, but it doesn't keep that pesky kid with his VOX
operated tape recorder on the repeater input from having
a go at the control codes. So we figured out a way to
deal with that issue and have a little fun with him at
the same time.

Arcom (Ken) has a new type of ADM for the 210 Controller.
It's pretty neat if you want to experiment around with a
very fairly priced circuit.

s.




--
Cort Buffington
H: +1-785-838-3034
M: +1-785-865-7206

RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Andrew Seybold]

David—searching my memory but believe you are correct, I know that there was a 
limit

 

Andy

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dmur...@verizon.net
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:44 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

 

  

Andy, if I remember correctly I think the counter only went to 10. After that 
well I would hope there were not more that 10 officers at any one scene.
Probably different is CA.



David


Oct 23, 2009 06:34:43 PM, Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com wrote:

  

Correct—David and it DID work  ONLY when they keep their radios in the 
charger—on the CA CHP system if you listen on 154.905 you will clearly hear the 
beep as they exit their car—it is also a great way of keeping track of CHP cars 
which are close to you since all of the traffic they receive on their low-band 
radios is rebroadcast on the 154.905 channel if they do not have their portable 
in the charger and most don’t.

 

Andy

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dmur...@verizon.net
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:28 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

 

  

Had a problem with the PAC-RTs when I worked in Virginia for the State 
Police. Most of the officers did not put the portable in the charger so when 
more than one officer arrived on the scene and took their portables with them 
all PAC-RTs would transmit when the officer would key his portable. When the 
portable is removed from the charger a tone is emitted to let other PAC-RTs set 
their counters so they do not repeat. Only the last one to arrive on the scene 
and pull his portable form the charger would repeat. If another unit arrives 
and pulls the portable from the charger that one is now the one repeating.


David


Oct 23, 2009 06:21:21 PM, Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com wrote: 
 

   



> Just to be clear the "drop" is planned, it is designed 
> so that when multiple cars are on the same scene only 
> one of them has a PAC-RT in operation, otherwise it would 
> be a zoo-so the drop is really the synchronization of 
> multiple PAC-RTs, 

The drop is a receiver "sample window" to allow the person 
(officer) with the portable the ability to quickly capture 
the return path (transmitter control) back to the dispatcher. 

Multiple "vehicular repeaters" listen for both activity and 
tones/codes to setup and maintain a queue of operation so 
only one repeater responds within a very local on scene 
coverage area. 

The sample and priority window values can be adjusted or 
disabled if you only have one unit for personal use or 
don't expect to use it for fast reply (emergency service) 
work.

> ..the CHP, and Nevada used to use PAC-Rts. 

Pac-RT is the Motorola Name, GE made a version and Pyramid 
currently makes and sells them. (of course I'm a Dealer 
for Pyramid). I'm told Vertex and probably Icom also 
make them. 

Most of the current CHP vehicles use the GE or a special 
Pyramid (clone of the GE) unit. 

> Also, today you can find a lot of the mobile repeaters 
> around-and they make good portable repeaters-

The Motorola and GE repeaters have specific special cables 
to interface to different radio models. You would normally 
need the proper cable and in some cases a matching radio 
with the corresponding control/interface circuit. The Pyramid 
and newer brand repeaters are much more generic in regards 
to the different radio brands/models they work/interface 
with. 

> HOWEVER, most of them, at least the GE ones, made sure 
> that the receiver sensitivity was very poor so that it 
> only picked up local HT traffic. 

A target value of about 50uV (micro volts) RX Sensitivity 
was specified by a number of agencies. Two officers

[Repeater-Builder] Help Identifying UHF Duplexer

[bbfmrf]

I have a 4 can duplexer that was removed from service.

I presently have no use for this item, so I would like to sell it, 
unfortunately, there are no markings as to its origin.  It may be a home brew, 
but I seem to remember Motorola selling something similar and I believe the 
model started with a T, but I cannot find any info.

If anyone can supply me with some info on this duplexer, I would appreciate the 
help, and also if anyone is interested, I will accept offers.

Pictures of the duplexer may be found in the Photo Section of this group in my 
album BBFMRF.  They are the first 2 pictures labed AA UHFDuplxerFront and AA 
UHFDuplxerrear

FYI  The frequency markings on the repeater are correct and the unit should 
presently be tuned as marked.

Replies may be posted to the group or sent directly to me at bbfmrf at yahoo.com

Thanks for all your help.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means

[MCH]

Sounds like the squelch was open on the PAC if the dropout was 1/2 
second. It should have only been about 50 mS (maybe less) and happen 
every half second.

Joe M.

Chris Robinson wrote:
> 
> 
> I always found  their selection of radios to be a bit odd until about 10 
> years ago. For a while they would use the GE system in the car and a 
> motorola for other systems, but the two would never really synch 
> properly and there was always the drop out every few seconds that was 
> only about a half second long but none the less annoying! i think they 
> have changed systems now and odnt have this issue anymore.
> 
>  Oh how I use to miss the days of California, now you couldnt pay me 
> enough to move back!
> 
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Andrew Seybold 
> mailto:aseyb...@andrewseybold.com>> wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> Pac-rt or Pack Rats are they are called, is a low-powered repeater
> which is tied to the main mobile radio in a police or fire vehicle,
> when the officier leaves the vehicle he normally takes the HT, and
> the HT then talks through the PAC-RT back to the base station. This
> was first done where the mobile units were low band (30-50 MHz) and
> there were no good HTs available, CHP uses them on 154.905 for their
> 42 MHz dispatch system
> 
>  
> 
> Andy
> 
>  
> 
> *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> 
> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *George
> *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 9:57 AM
> *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> 
> *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> i have MTVA converta-com 800mhz with the mts2000 inside the cradle
> and the control unit NTN1325B has amplifier in it and switching RF
> TX-RX relay. i hear it clicking between PTT. now the cradle has a
> switch that says PAC-RT on and off. what does this do? (no manual)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 
> 05:58:00
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help Identifying UHF Duplexer

[Matthew Kaufman]

Motorola T1500-series with the notches, so it is pass-notch as opposed 
to bandpass.

Matthew Kaufman

[Repeater-Builder] Decibel Products DB-4071 UHF Duplexer FS

[K5IN]

I have a DB-4071 UH
F duplexer for sale.

$150.00 shipped in the lower 48.


Brian, k5in Olympia, WA 360 239 9757

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

[JOHN MACKEY]

WHY would someone be using VOX in a system linked to a repeater (such
as Echolink)?

-- Original Message --
Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:49:01 PM PDT
From: "skipp025" 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
SNIP
> > Helping my echolink node not get confused about  
> > what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose 
> > for having the delay.
> 
> Audio delay lines are killer (great) for use with VOX 
> (voice) operated logic... and a must have for many 
> simulcast transmission packages.  

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[George]

ok guys...cut the bla...bla help is needed here:ok, now how to make it work for 
me? i have msf5000 working with my spectra and
mts2000. does the mts2000 need to be programmed to work with the mtva, second:
if i use another handheld GTX how do i program the mtva to work together with
the mts2000 GTX and spectra so that the msf5000 can hear at least one of them.
does the amplifier unt NTN1325B need to be programmed to work as repeater?

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH  wrote:
>
> Sounds like the squelch was open on the PAC if the dropout was 1/2 
> second. It should have only been about 50 mS (maybe less) and happen 
> every half second.
> 
> Joe M.
> 
> Chris Robinson wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I always found  their selection of radios to be a bit odd until about 10 
> > years ago. For a while they would use the GE system in the car and a 
> > motorola for other systems, but the two would never really synch 
> > properly and there was always the drop out every few seconds that was 
> > only about a half second long but none the less annoying! i think they 
> > have changed systems now and odnt have this issue anymore.
> > 
> >  Oh how I use to miss the days of California, now you couldnt pay me 
> > enough to move back!
> > 
> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Andrew Seybold 
> > mailto:aseyb...@...>> wrote:
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Pac-rt or Pack Rats are they are called, is a low-powered repeater
> > which is tied to the main mobile radio in a police or fire vehicle,
> > when the officier leaves the vehicle he normally takes the HT, and
> > the HT then talks through the PAC-RT back to the base station. This
> > was first done where the mobile units were low band (30-50 MHz) and
> > there were no good HTs available, CHP uses them on 154.905 for their
> > 42 MHz dispatch system
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Andy
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > ] *On Behalf Of *George
> > *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 9:57 AM
> > *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > i have MTVA converta-com 800mhz with the mts2000 inside the cradle
> > and the control unit NTN1325B has amplifier in it and switching RF
> > TX-RX relay. i hear it clicking between PTT. now the cradle has a
> > switch that says PAC-RT on and off. what does this do? (no manual)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> > Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 
> > 05:58:00
> >
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

[skipp025]

Step right up... welcome to the show...  Can any of you 
tell it's a Friday?

> "JOHN MACKEY"  wrote:
> WHY would someone be using VOX in a system linked to 
> a repeater (such as Echolink)?

To delay the audio long enough for the vox circuit to 
first detect and provide COS/COR/PTT logic. The first 
portion of the inbound audio is not chopped off. 

s. 

> -- Original Message --
> Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:49:01 PM PDT
> From: "skipp025" 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
> SNIP
> > > Helping my echolink node not get confused about  
> > > what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose 
> > > for having the delay.
> > 
> > Audio delay lines are killer (great) for use with VOX 
> > (voice) operated logic... and a must have for many 
> > simulcast transmission packages.
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means

[Chris Robinson]

I cant say absolutely that the drop was a half second, but at the time it
sure seemed like it.I do know that the drop occurred roughly every few
seconds. I wasnt much into radio at least not commercial to understand the
workings in detail. Now I wish I payed more attention, as it would probably
help me on a couple pieces I have here.

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 3:38 PM, MCH  wrote:

>
>
> Sounds like the squelch was open on the PAC if the dropout was 1/2
> second. It should have only been about 50 mS (maybe less) and happen
> every half second.
>
> Joe M.
>
> Chris Robinson wrote:
> >
> >
> > I always found their selection of radios to be a bit odd until about 10
> > years ago. For a while they would use the GE system in the car and a
> > motorola for other systems, but the two would never really synch
> > properly and there was always the drop out every few seconds that was
> > only about a half second long but none the less annoying! i think they
> > have changed systems now and odnt have this issue anymore.
> >
> > Oh how I use to miss the days of California, now you couldnt pay me
> > enough to move back!
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Andrew Seybold
> >   aseyb...@andrewseybold.com >> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Pac-rt or Pack Rats are they are called, is a low-powered repeater
> > which is tied to the main mobile radio in a police or fire vehicle,
> > when the officier leaves the vehicle he normally takes the HT, and
> > the HT then talks through the PAC-RT back to the base station. This
> > was first done where the mobile units were low band (30-50 MHz) and
> > there were no good HTs available, CHP uses them on 154.905 for their
> > 42 MHz dispatch system
> >
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> >  >
> > [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > ]
> *On Behalf Of *George
> > *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 9:57 AM
> > *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> >  >
> > *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > i have MTVA converta-com 800mhz with the mts2000 inside the cradle
> > and the control unit NTN1325B has amplifier in it and switching RF
> > TX-RX relay. i hear it clicking between PTT. now the cradle has a
> > switch that says PAC-RT on and off. what does this do? (no manual)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date:
> 07/31/09 05:58:00
> >
>  
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Mark]

Skipp's statement can also be rephrased as "you're life depends on low
bid"...

Mark - N9WYS

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of skipp025

--- (snippage) ---

> >  I always found  their selection of radios to be a bit 
> > odd until about 10 years ago. For a while they would use 
> > the GE system in the car and a Motorola for other systems, 

Government Public Safety (an oxymoron)

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Mark]

That’s a typical problem with the PAC-RT and other mobile repeater systems…

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of dmur...@verizon.net


Had a problem with the PAC-RTs when I worked in Virginia for the State Police. 
Most of the officers did not put the portable in the charger so when more than 
one officer arrived on the scene and took their portables with them all PAC-RTs 
would transmit when the officer would key his portable. When the portable is 
removed from the charger a tone is emitted to let other PAC-RTs set their 
counters so they do not repeat. Only the last one to arrive on the scene and 
pull his portable form the charger would repeat. If another unit arrives and 
pulls the portable from the charger that one is now the one repeating.

David



 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help Identifying UHF Duplexer

[Tony KT9AC]

Motorola T1504. Just tuned one last weekend and average 81dbm reject 
with probably 0.1uV pass loss. Good for 250W and 406-512. Lots of good 
documentation on the Repeater-Builder page:

http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/t1500.html

Good Luck. Bought my last set for around $140.

Tony

bbfmrf wrote:
>  
>
> I have a 4 can duplexer that was removed from service.
>
> I presently have no use for this item, so I would like to sell it, 
> unfortunately, there are no markings as to its origin. It may be a 
> home brew, but I seem to remember Motorola selling something similar 
> and I believe the model started with a T, but I cannot find any info.
>
> If anyone can supply me with some info on this duplexer, I would 
> appreciate the help, and also if anyone is interested, I will accept 
> offers.
>
> Pictures of the duplexer may be found in the Photo Section of this 
> group in my album BBFMRF. They are the first 2 pictures labed AA 
> UHFDuplxerFront and AA UHFDuplxerrear
>
> FYI The frequency markings on the repeater are correct and the unit 
> should presently be tuned as marked.
>
> Replies may be posted to the group or sent directly to me at bbfmrf at 
> yahoo.com
>
> Thanks for all your help.
>
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

[Paul Plack]

John, I experimented with that once, and in some situations, it's the most 
elegant way to derive a COS-like logic signal from an audio stream that doesn't 
carry imbedded switching info. A fast, stable VOX gate listening to the output 
of a squelched radio receiver can provide a very useful switching signal.

Set the VOX threshhold to a point where it ignores the quiescent noise level of 
the squelched receiver, but triggers reliably on any trace of CTCSS tone or 
ambient noise behind the party transmitting, and set the VOX delay to zero.

Because it doesn't care about frequency, it can actually act more quickly than 
a PLL CTCSS decoder, especially on the lower tones.

73,
Paul, AE4KR

- Original Message - 
  From: JOHN MACKEY 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay


WHY would someone be using VOX in a system linked to a repeater (such
  as Echolink)?

  -- Original Message --
  Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:49:01 PM PDT
  From: "skipp025" 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
  SNIP
  > > Helping my echolink node not get confused about 
  > > what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose 
  > > for having the delay.
  > 
  > Audio delay lines are killer (great) for use with VOX 
  > (voice) operated logic... and a must have for many 
  > simulcast transmission packages. 



  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Eric Lemmon]

Has anyone answered the original poster's question?  I believe that he
wanted to know what the term "PAC-RT" means.  Somehow, this thread got
off-topic into how it works and how it's used.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

[Repeater-Builder] Anyone want BNC Pigtials One sided 12" to 18"

[bbfmrf]

Is anyone interested in some one sided BNC pigtails?

I have a bunch, (50+) of RG58U BNC Pigtails that were removed from a rack 
mounted test jig.  They range from 12 inches to 18 inches.

I hate to just throw them away, so I am offering them to anyone that may want 
them.

I am asking $1.00 per dozen plus shipping just to cover my Paypal fees and time.

Contact me directly at bbfmrf at yahoo.com if interested.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help Identifying UHF Duplexer

[Ken Arck]

At 02:07 PM 10/23/2009, Tony KT9AC wrote:
>
>
>Motorola T1504. Just tuned one last weekend and average 81dbm reject
>with probably 0.1uV pass loss. Good for 250W and 406-512. Lots of good
>documentation on the Repeater-Builder page:

[Repeater-Builder] SmartTrunk II ST-853 Digital Trunking Controllers

[bbfmrf]

I have (4) SmarTrunk ST-853 Digital Trunking Controllers available to anyone 
that may be interested.

These have been laying around for a couple of years and I have no use for them.

I assume that they work, as I recall they were in operation when removed from 
service, but I honestly cannot verify that fact, so I am taking the best offer 
for the lot in AS IS condition.

I have a PDF installtion and programming manual and an exe file that I BELIEVE 
may be for programming that I will include.  There are no cables attached.

If you are interested, make me an offer for the lot.

If you have questions, I will do my best to answer them.

Send your inquiries to bbfmrf at yahoo.com

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[wd8chl]

Eric Lemmon wrote:
> Has anyone answered the original poster's question?  I believe that he
> wanted to know what the term "PAC-RT" means.  Somehow, this thread got
> off-topic into how it works and how it's used.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

Can't tell what it means without describing how it works...


OH Turnpike solved the 'radio not in the charger' problem by wiring the 
switch to the dome light switch, I think through some sort of flip-flop. 
When the officer stepped out of the vehicle, it went into repeat. Close 
the door. Get back in vehicle again, it goes out of repeat. I think 
there was more to it, too. I know there was also a manual switch on the 
console...

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Vox Circuits with Audio Delay

[skipp025]

Re: Vox Circuits with Audio Delay

Wish I could claim credit and the star dust for being the 
first one to think it up... but nay. 

I first saw it over a friends house, where he was using a 
rack mounted semi pro-audio (band) chorus/delay unit with 
the NASA Shuttle Audio from a Satellite Receiver. 

So you could raid your old band music equipment, find a low 
cost (often stereo) unit off Ebay or buy a delay module 
made for communications audio applications. 

You need only parallel your COS/COS logic circuit onto the 
same audio source. 

s. 

I'd give his name/call-sign credit but he's a group member 
here and letting him find out I learned something from him is 
almost too much to bear/admit. But the NASA Shuttle Audio 
part of the story already is the give-away. 


> "Paul Plack"  wrote:
>
> John, I experimented with that once, and in some situations, it's the most 
> elegant way to derive a COS-like logic signal from an audio stream that 
> doesn't carry imbedded switching info. A fast, stable VOX gate listening to 
> the output of a squelched radio receiver can provide a very useful switching 
> signal.
> 
> Set the VOX threshhold to a point where it ignores the quiescent noise level 
> of the squelched receiver, but triggers reliably on any trace of CTCSS tone 
> or ambient noise behind the party transmitting, and set the VOX delay to zero.
> 
> Because it doesn't care about frequency, it can actually act more quickly 
> than a PLL CTCSS decoder, especially on the lower tones.
> 
> 73,
> Paul, AE4KR
> 
> - Original Message - 
>   From: JOHN MACKEY 
>   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:45 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
> 
> 
> WHY would someone be using VOX in a system linked to a repeater (such
>   as Echolink)?
> 
>   -- Original Message --
>   Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:49:01 PM PDT
>   From: "skipp025" 
>   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
>   SNIP
>   > > Helping my echolink node not get confused about 
>   > > what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose 
>   > > for having the delay.
>   > 
>   > Audio delay lines are killer (great) for use with VOX 
>   > (voice) operated logic... and a must have for many 
>   > simulcast transmission packages.
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Eric Lemmon]

I'm guessing that the "AC" stands for "Area Coverage" but I'd like to know
what the "P" "R" and "T" mean. 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:39 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

  

Eric Lemmon wrote:
> Has anyone answered the original poster's question? I believe that he
> wanted to know what the term "PAC-RT" means. Somehow, this thread got
> off-topic into how it works and how it's used.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

Can't tell what it means without describing how it works...

OH Turnpike solved the 'radio not in the charger' problem by wiring the 
switch to the dome light switch, I think through some sort of flip-flop. 
When the officer stepped out of the vehicle, it went into repeat. Close 
the door. Get back in vehicle again, it goes out of repeat. I think 
there was more to it, too. I know there was also a manual switch on the 
console...

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Chuck Kelsey]

He wanted to know what it did, not what it stood for.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "wd8chl" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means


> Eric Lemmon wrote:
>> Has anyone answered the original poster's question?  I believe that he
>> wanted to know what the term "PAC-RT" means.  Somehow, this thread got
>> off-topic into how it works and how it's used.
>> 
>> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

[JOHN MACKEY]

Then why not do all that using the COS provided?

-- Original Message --
Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:53:51 PM PDT
From: "skipp025" 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

> 
> 
> Step right up... welcome to the show...  Can any of you 
> tell it's a Friday?
> 
> > "JOHN MACKEY"  wrote:
> > WHY would someone be using VOX in a system linked to 
> > a repeater (such as Echolink)?
> 
> To delay the audio long enough for the vox circuit to 
> first detect and provide COS/COR/PTT logic. The first 
> portion of the inbound audio is not chopped off. 
> 
> s. 
> 
> > -- Original Message --
> > Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:49:01 PM PDT
> > From: "skipp025" 
> > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
> > SNIP
> > > > Helping my echolink node not get confused about  
> > > > what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose 
> > > > for having the delay.
> > > 
> > > Audio delay lines are killer (great) for use with VOX 
> > > (voice) operated logic... and a must have for many 
> > > simulcast transmission packages.
> >
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

[JOHN MACKEY]

In the application you describe, it makes sense.  But the thread I was
responding to and asking about was specific to liking a repeater to Echolink.
Echolink provides COS signaling, so I don't understand why someone would use
VOX.

-- Original Message --
Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 02:09:23 PM PDT
From: "Paul Plack" 
To: 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

> John, I experimented with that once, and in some situations, it's the most
elegant way to derive a COS-like logic signal from an audio stream that
doesn't carry imbedded switching info. A fast, stable VOX gate listening to
the output of a squelched radio receiver can provide a very useful switching
signal.
> 
> Set the VOX threshhold to a point where it ignores the quiescent noise level
of the squelched receiver, but triggers reliably on any trace of CTCSS tone or
ambient noise behind the party transmitting, and set the VOX delay to zero.
> 
> Because it doesn't care about frequency, it can actually act more quickly
than a PLL CTCSS decoder, especially on the lower tones.
> 
> 73,
> Paul, AE4KR
> 
> - Original Message - 
>   From: JOHN MACKEY 
>   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:45 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
> 
> 
> WHY would someone be using VOX in a system linked to a repeater (such
>   as Echolink)?
> 
>   -- Original Message --
>   Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:49:01 PM PDT
>   From: "skipp025" 
>   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
>   SNIP
>   > > Helping my echolink node not get confused about 
>   > > what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose 
>   > > for having the delay.
>   > 
>   > Audio delay lines are killer (great) for use with VOX 
>   > (voice) operated logic... and a must have for many 
>   > simulcast transmission packages. 
> 
> 
> 
>   

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Vertex VX-2000 Accessory Connector ** PIN1 COS/PTT One in the same ?? **

[tc27175]

Pin 1 (SQUELCH OUTPUT)of the DB-9 SUB connector is listed as: "active high", 
yet when I check this pin I measure 5 VDC with squelch close and goes to 0.06 
VDC with squelch (RX Siganl) open.

On other point to note, this same Pin 1 also goes low when the radio in in TX 
mode (PTT). This is an issue when connectiong this radio to a controller, as 
not only does the PTT LED come on, but also the COS!

I have written Vertex about this issue as there maybe a jumper on can work 
around this, but have received a reply thus far.

73, Lorne  VE1BXK

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "na6df"  wrote:
>
> Yeah, I have a bunch of the vx2000's. I like the little boogers. The
> bummer is that the COS line is not programmable to operate with CTCSS.
> It is always a carrier indicator, even if the radio is in decode. If
> it were otherwise, I'd be using them for more IRLP and echolink
> projects. I use maxtracs and alincos for that, as I can get what I
> need from them.
>
> df
>
>
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."  wrote:
> >
> > Perfect! Exactly what I needed to know, and then some.
> > It answers a bunch of questions.
> >
> > No other replies/posts needed now.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Bob M.
> > ==
> > --- na6df  wrote:
> >
> > > go to this groups file section, I just posted a pdf
> > > from the manual of
> > > that connectors info. The radio itself is a db-9
> > > female..
> > >
> > > dave
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anyone have info regarding the DB-9 accessory
> > > > connector on the back of these radios? I'd suspect
> > > > that the VX2000, 3000, and 4000 series are
> > > similar.
> > > >
> > > > I've searched the web. Naturally there are no
> > > detailed
> > > > photos or any info available from the Yaesu Vertex
> > > > Standard (or whatever name they're using today)
> > > web
> > > > site.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Is the connector on the radio a MALE or FEMALE?
> > > >
> > > > 2. Any description of the pin assignments?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Bob M.

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

[skipp025]

> "JOHN MACKEY"  wrote:
> Then why not do all that using the COS provided?

What if there is no provided COS..?  Just an audio 
source... 

s. 

> -- Original Message --
> Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:53:51 PM PDT
> From: "skipp025" 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Step right up... welcome to the show...  Can any of you 
> > tell it's a Friday?
> > 
> > > "JOHN MACKEY"  wrote:
> > > WHY would someone be using VOX in a system linked to 
> > > a repeater (such as Echolink)?
> > 
> > To delay the audio long enough for the vox circuit to 
> > first detect and provide COS/COR/PTT logic. The first 
> > portion of the inbound audio is not chopped off. 
> > 
> > s. 
> > 
> > > -- Original Message --
> > > Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:49:01 PM PDT
> > > From: "skipp025" 
> > > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
> > > SNIP
> > > > > Helping my echolink node not get confused about  
> > > > > what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose 
> > > > > for having the delay.
> > > > 
> > > > Audio delay lines are killer (great) for use with VOX 
> > > > (voice) operated logic... and a must have for many 
> > > > simulcast transmission packages.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

[Cort Buffington]

To clarify, I use the delay to keep the echolink node from decoding  
DTMF from the end user. The controller regenerates necessary DTMF to  
the node.


On Oct 23, 2009, at 3:45 PM, JOHN MACKEY wrote:


WHY would someone be using VOX in a system linked to a repeater (such
as Echolink)?

-- Original Message --
Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:49:01 PM PDT
From: "skipp025" 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
SNIP
> > Helping my echolink node not get confused about
> > what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose
> > for having the delay.
>
> Audio delay lines are killer (great) for use with VOX
> (voice) operated logic... and a must have for many
> simulcast transmission packages.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Vox Circuits with Audio Delay

[Cort Buffington]

allowing myself to degenerate OT a bit

Yeah, pick, up a vintage TC Electronic TC2290 on E-bay for only $1500  
and you can have the best delay around... and sound like "vintage" U2  
songs at the same time. I'm going to start referring to Skipp as "The  
Edge" :) :)


Sorry, could not help that one -- I'm silly, I know.

On Oct 23, 2009, at 4:39 PM, skipp025 wrote:




Re: Vox Circuits with Audio Delay

Wish I could claim credit and the star dust for being the
first one to think it up... but nay.

I first saw it over a friends house, where he was using a
rack mounted semi pro-audio (band) chorus/delay unit with
the NASA Shuttle Audio from a Satellite Receiver.

So you could raid your old band music equipment, find a low
cost (often stereo) unit off Ebay or buy a delay module
made for communications audio applications.

You need only parallel your COS/COS logic circuit onto the
same audio source.

s.

I'd give his name/call-sign credit but he's a group member
here and letting him find out I learned something from him is
almost too much to bear/admit. But the NASA Shuttle Audio
part of the story already is the give-away.

> "Paul Plack"  wrote:
>
> John, I experimented with that once, and in some situations, it's  
the most elegant way to derive a COS-like logic signal from an audio  
stream that doesn't carry imbedded switching info. A fast, stable  
VOX gate listening to the output of a squelched radio receiver can  
provide a very useful switching signal.

>
> Set the VOX threshhold to a point where it ignores the quiescent  
noise level of the squelched receiver, but triggers reliably on any  
trace of CTCSS tone or ambient noise behind the party transmitting,  
and set the VOX delay to zero.

>
> Because it doesn't care about frequency, it can actually act more  
quickly than a PLL CTCSS decoder, especially on the lower tones.

>
> 73,
> Paul, AE4KR
>
> - Original Message -
> From: JOHN MACKEY
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
>
>
> WHY would someone be using VOX in a system linked to a repeater  
(such

> as Echolink)?
>
> -- Original Message --
> Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:49:01 PM PDT
> From: "skipp025" 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
> SNIP
> > > Helping my echolink node not get confused about
> > > what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose
> > > for having the delay.
> >
> > Audio delay lines are killer (great) for use with VOX
> > (voice) operated logic... and a must have for many
> > simulcast transmission packages.
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

[JOHN MACKEY]

Of course, if there is on COS provided, then VOX has to be used.  But my
question specifically referenced someone using Echolink, which provides COS!!

-- Original Message --
Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:02:15 PM PDT
From: "skipp025" 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay

> 
> > "JOHN MACKEY"  wrote:
> > Then why not do all that using the COS provided?
> 
> What if there is no provided COS..?  Just an audio 
> source... 
> 
> s. 
> 
> > -- Original Message --
> > Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:53:51 PM PDT
> > From: "skipp025" 
> > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Step right up... welcome to the show...  Can any of you 
> > > tell it's a Friday?
> > > 
> > > > "JOHN MACKEY"  wrote:
> > > > WHY would someone be using VOX in a system linked to 
> > > > a repeater (such as Echolink)?
> > > 
> > > To delay the audio long enough for the vox circuit to 
> > > first detect and provide COS/COR/PTT logic. The first 
> > > portion of the inbound audio is not chopped off. 
> > > 
> > > s. 
> > > 
> > > > -- Original Message --
> > > > Received: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:49:01 PM PDT
> > > > From: "skipp025" 
> > > > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Audio Delay
> > > > SNIP
> > > > > > Helping my echolink node not get confused about  
> > > > > > what it is supposed to listen to is my primary purpose 
> > > > > > for having the delay.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Audio delay lines are killer (great) for use with VOX 
> > > > > (voice) operated logic... and a must have for many 
> > > > > simulcast transmission packages.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[ka1jfy]

My agency's problem was a little different.

We operate on a conventional UHF repeater system.
At the time we had Micor mobiles.

Call would go out for a crash. 
First unit in would be taking to dispatch fine.
Pulls his portable and is talking to dispatch through the PAC-R/T and the radio 
in HIS car.
Second [3rd, 4th...] unit in would switch to talk-around to talk directly to 
the unit(s) on-scene.
When the second [3rd, 4th...] units would arrive and pull their portables from 
the charger, their unit would become the main one, and all portable traffic 
would be 'repeated' on the talk-around. 
Not great when you need to tell dispatch you need something.

WalterH

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Mark"  wrote:
>
> That’s a typical problem with the PAC-RT and other mobile repeater 
> systems…
> 
>  
> 
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of dmur...@...
> 
> 
> Had a problem with the PAC-RTs when I worked in Virginia for the State 
> Police. Most of the officers did not put the portable in the charger so when 
> more than one officer arrived on the scene and took their portables with them 
> all PAC-RTs would transmit when the officer would key his portable. When the 
> portable is removed from the charger a tone is emitted to let other PAC-RTs 
> set their counters so they do not repeat. Only the last one to arrive on the 
> scene and pull his portable form the charger would repeat. If another unit 
> arrives and pulls the portable from the charger that one is now the one 
> repeating.
> 
> David
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means

[MCH]

Maybe it was another manufacturer? I know some of them had longer drop 
times and longer durations.

Joe M.

Chris Robinson wrote:
> 
> 
> I cant say absolutely that the drop was a half second, but at the time 
> it sure seemed like it.I do know that the drop occurred roughly every 
> few seconds. I wasnt much into radio at least not commercial to 
> understand the workings in detail. Now I wish I payed more attention, as 
> it would probably help me on a couple pieces I have here.
> 
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 3:38 PM, MCH mailto:m...@nb.net>> wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> Sounds like the squelch was open on the PAC if the dropout was 1/2
> second. It should have only been about 50 mS (maybe less) and happen
> every half second.
> 
> Joe M.
> 
> Chris Robinson wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > I always found their selection of radios to be a bit odd until
> about 10
>  > years ago. For a while they would use the GE system in the car and a
>  > motorola for other systems, but the two would never really synch
>  > properly and there was always the drop out every few seconds that
> was
>  > only about a half second long but none the less annoying! i think
> they
>  > have changed systems now and odnt have this issue anymore.
>  >
>  > Oh how I use to miss the days of California, now you couldnt pay me
>  > enough to move back!
>  >
>  > On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Andrew Seybold
>  > mailto:aseybold%40andrewseybold.com>
>  >> wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Pac-rt or Pack Rats are they are called, is a low-powered repeater
>  > which is tied to the main mobile radio in a police or fire vehicle,
>  > when the officier leaves the vehicle he normally takes the HT, and
>  > the HT then talks through the PAC-RT back to the base station. This
>  > was first done where the mobile units were low band (30-50 MHz) and
>  > there were no good HTs available, CHP uses them on 154.905 for their
>  > 42 MHz dispatch system
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Andy
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> 
>  >  >
>  > [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> 
>  >  >] *On Behalf Of *George
>  > *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 9:57 AM
>  > *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> 
>  >  >
>  > *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > i have MTVA converta-com 800mhz with the mts2000 inside the cradle
>  > and the control unit NTN1325B has amplifier in it and switching RF
>  > TX-RX relay. i hear it clicking between PTT. now the cradle has a
>  > switch that says PAC-RT on and off. what does this do? (no manual)
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  >
>  >
>  > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>  > Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date:
> 07/31/09 05:58:00
>  >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 
> 05:58:00
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[MCH]

It was my first reply.

Joe M.

Eric Lemmon wrote:
> Has anyone answered the original poster's question?  I believe that he
> wanted to know what the term "PAC-RT" means.  Somehow, this thread got
> off-topic into how it works and how it's used.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 
> 05:58:00
> 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Butch Kanvick]

Portable Area Coverage-Receiver Transmitter
I think I read this on the Motrola sales literture at one time.

 

I hope everyone has a wonderful weeekend.

 

Butch, KE7FEL/r 


To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
From: wb6...@verizon.net
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:47:15 -0700
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

  



I'm guessing that the "AC" stands for "Area Coverage" but I'd like to know
what the "P" "R" and "T" mean. 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:39 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

Eric Lemmon wrote:
> Has anyone answered the original poster's question? I believe that he
> wanted to know what the term "PAC-RT" means. Somehow, this thread got
> off-topic into how it works and how it's used.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

Can't tell what it means without describing how it works...

OH Turnpike solved the 'radio not in the charger' problem by wiring the 
switch to the dome light switch, I think through some sort of flip-flop. 
When the officer stepped out of the vehicle, it went into repeat. Close 
the door. Get back in vehicle again, it goes out of repeat. I think 
there was more to it, too. I know there was also a manual switch on the 
console...