Re: Can anyone help me to contact Paul Ratto ?

[Frank King]

Dear Isabella,

As I expected, there are plenty of list members happy to offer advice.  You
have to be a bit circumspect when reading some of it!

Willy Leenders is right to comment unfavourable on the drawing you find at:

 http://www.sunclocks.com

The drawing and the wording round it are very misleading both as to how the
sundial is to be used and how it is set out.  Importantly, the slabs on the
date scale are badly represented.  I cannot think why Douglas Hunt hasn't
changed this page.

The good news is that the two rings of hour numbers on properly set out
Douglas Hunt Sundials correctly indicate local sun times on the relevant
reference meridians.  This is usually within 15 minutes of clock time and
within 5 minutes during the summer. They do not indicate clock time
itself.  The outer ring is for winter time and the inner ring is for summer
time.

As I mentioned, there are really two separate but superimposed analemmatic
sundials.  Imagine the following steps:

  1. Lay out a conventional analemmatic sundial where the single ring of
hour numbers is set out on an ellipse whose major axis is 5m across.

  2. Now overlay this with an identical sundial scaled down 20% so the
major axis is only 4m across.  Arrange for the mid-points of the two date
scales to be coincident.  These are the two equinoctial points.

 3. The two rings of hour numbers will be separate but there will be a
horrible jumble along the date line.

 4. Here is the cunning bit: you discard the *summer half* (equinox to the
summer solstice) of the longer date line and you discard the *winter half*
of the shorter date line.  *The equinoctial point is no longer in the
middle of the date line.*  The summer half is short and uses the inner ring
(this is when shadows are short because the sun is high) and the winter
half is long and uses the outer ring.

With a single exception, everything is gnomonically sound.  The one
slightly doubtful feature is that the change-overs from winter time to
summer time and vice versa are deemed to be at the equinoxes when, in
reality, the change-over dates are dictated by legislation rather than by
mathematics.  I don't regard this as a serious problem.  Blame legislators!!

The important thing for your daughter to note is that designing and
constructing this sundial is exactly equivalent to designing a conventional
single-ring analemmatic sundial, scaling it, putting both dials together
and then selectively throwing away the bits you don't need.

Since you live in North America, I would use Roger Bailey as your principal
source of advice!!  He is very good at practicalities.

A Happy New Year
Frank
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Re: Can anyone help me to contact Paul Ratto ?

[Willy Leenders]

Dear Isabella and others,

The double ring sundial on the indicated website has two errors.

1.
The person as drawn must not stand with two feet on one side of the centerline, 
but with the feet on either side of the centerline.
2.
The inner ring is always wrong. You better leave him out.
He is supposed to indicate the clock time, but because the equation of time is 
not included in it - increasing to around plus or minus fifteen minutes - he 
may not be correct.
A sundial is just as attractive because, as the only simple instrument, it 
indicates the natural time, adjusted to the position of the sun.
For all kinds of other (mostly unnatural and artificial) time displays, we have 
plenty of other instruments: wristwatch, tower clock, computer, telephone, etc.

Willy Leenders
Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium)



> Op 31 dec. 2019, om 13:55 heeft Frank King  het volgende 
> geschreven:
> 
> Dear Isabella,
> 
> There is nothing very special about the double ring design. It is (more or 
> less) two ordinary analemmatic sundials, one superimposed on the other.
> 
> This version was popularised by Douglas Hunt and you should explore his 
> website...
> 
> http://www.sunclocks.com 
> 
> Practically anyone who uses this mailing list can advise you!
> 
> Frank King
> Cambridge, U.K.
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
> 


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Re: Can anyone help me to contact Paul Ratto ?

[Frank King]

Dear Isabella,

There is nothing very special about the double ring design. It is (more or
less) two ordinary analemmatic sundials, one superimposed on the other.

This version was popularised by Douglas Hunt and you should explore his
website...

http://www.sunclocks.com

Practically anyone who uses this mailing list can advise you!

Frank King
Cambridge, U.K.
---
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Re: Can anyone help me to contact Paul Ratto ?

[Maes, F.W.]

Dear Isabella,

The sundial is laid out according to the "Sunclock" design (
www.sunclocks.com), developed by Douglas Hunt from Great Britain. Paul
Ratto is the "order-taker" for North America; see:
www.sunclocks.com/pics/fs-002.htm, about halfway down the page. There is a
link to his own website: www.sunclocks.com/net/ (and his tel.nr.)
Note that the design has been patented, as far as I know.

A healthy and happy New Year to you too!

Best regards,
Frans Maes
The Netherlands


On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 1:22 PM Isabella McFedries <
isabella.mcfedr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Could anyone on this 'Mailing List' help me with finding Paul Ratto ?
>
> My daughter would like to create a twin-ring Analemmatic sundial, for
> her Girl Scout Gold Award - as shown on the NASS website page, at the
> URL of:  www.sundials.org/index.php/sundial-registry/onedial/819.html
>
> It seems the "North American Sundial Society" do not have any contact
> details for Paul, but he is mentioned as being the 'designer' of that
> particular layout - and we understand from NASS they are popular with
> Scouts (both boys plus girls), to achieve Community-related awards.
>
>
> If anyone in North America can be of help, I will look forward to any
> information which may assist my daughter to contact Paul Ratto - for
> example a telephone number (if possible), or even a website address.
>
> With my grateful thanks in advance, for whatever details you can give
> me - plus I take this opportunity to wish everyone a Happy New Year.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Isabella McFedries.
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
>
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Can anyone help me to contact Paul Ratto ?

[Isabella McFedries]

Could anyone on this 'Mailing List' help me with finding Paul Ratto ?

My daughter would like to create a twin-ring Analemmatic sundial, for
her Girl Scout Gold Award - as shown on the NASS website page, at the
URL of:  www.sundials.org/index.php/sundial-registry/onedial/819.html

It seems the "North American Sundial Society" do not have any contact
details for Paul, but he is mentioned as being the 'designer' of that
particular layout - and we understand from NASS they are popular with
Scouts (both boys plus girls), to achieve Community-related awards.


If anyone in North America can be of help, I will look forward to any
information which may assist my daughter to contact Paul Ratto - for
example a telephone number (if possible), or even a website address.

With my grateful thanks in advance, for whatever details you can give
me - plus I take this opportunity to wish everyone a Happy New Year.


Sincerely,

Isabella McFedries.


-- 

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Can anyone help?

[Patrick_Powers]

Can anyone possibly help me regarding a dial manufacturer that signs their
dials with a copyright symbol and the word 'Solstice'?

The police in the UK have recovered a stolen horizontal dial and have asked
me as BSS Registrar if we
can identify it and its owner.   It is one of a few modern ones
characterised by the maker's name simply being recorded by a copyright
statement following the stated design latitude; viz

Latitude 51d 30m.  (c) Solstice

We know of a few such dials but all are either still present on their
pedestals or are designed for a latitude other than the one for which this
recovered one was designed.

Because the dials all appear to be designed for a specific latitude it is
possible that the maker might have records of their sale. Accordingly I am
trying to find the name and address for the maker of these 'Solstice'
dials.

Can anyone please help identify the source of these dials?
Many thanks

Patrick

Re: Can anyone help with a Latin translation?

[Alain Burgeon]

Thanks to Hendrik Desmet

Cum tua non edas, carpis mea carmina, Laeli.
Carpere vel noli nostra, vel ede tua.

It's quotation from Martial [M. Valerius Martialis], Epigrammata, I, 91

As you don't publish your works, you criticize my poems, Laelius.
Either don't criticize ours, or publish yours.

Cf. Martial, Epigrammes, tome I (livres I-VII), texte etabli et traduit par
H. J. IZAAC (Paris, Les Belles Lettres 1969), p. 44 :
Tu ne publies pas tes vers, Lelius, mais tu critiques les miens. Mets fin a
tes critiques, ou publie les tiens .

carpo, carpere : to pick ; but also rarely to criticize
edo, edidi, editum, edere : to put out, to publish
 edo, edi, esum, edere : to eat

Metrics : elegiac distich :
cUm tua nOn edAs, carpIs mea cArmina, lAEli.
cArpere vEl nolI nOstra, vel Ede tuA.

Why only the second verse ?
What that has got to do with the dead brothers or with the sundial ?


Alain BURGEON
Carnieres, Belgium
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Can anyone help with a Latin translation?

[Patrick Powers]

I've asked it at a specialist in Latin... and he answered me back saying
that sentence 
is not correct Latin.

He asked to have a closer look ;-)

If possible, could you confirm if there are no 'faults' in the sentence?

Hendrik:  Many thanks for replying.

The request for the translation came from a BSS Member who is leading a
party of friends on a walk past this dial this coming Sunday.  On an
advance walk to check the route he noted the motto and checked with me. 
The entry in the BSS register (as noted by an earlier Dial Recorder) is the
same and so I have every reason to believe that it is as I gave in my
e-mail.  However, I shall pass on your comment and have a further check
made.  I will let you know what the outcome is.

I suppose it is entirely possible that whoever designed the dial might have
made a mistake in the Latin:-)

Patrick

RE: Can anyone help with a Latin translation?

[Patrick Powers]

I think Alain is correct in interpretating the motto as a warning from
the 
dead brothers.

Chris:  Many thanks for replying. You have been a great help.  I think that
we may be up against faulty Latin as well as an obscure inscription!

I shall try and find out more about the background to the erection of this
dial and get back.

Patrick

Can anyone help with a Latin translation?

[Patrick Powers]

I have been asked if I might be able to provide an English translation of a
Latin motto or inscription on an unusual mutifaced stone dial in a Cheshire
(UK) churchyard.  

The dial commemorates the death by drowning in 1717 of two brothers of the
Mainwaring family who, it seems, lived at the nearby Hall. It has two dial
faces.  On the SW face is the inscription:

Carpere vel noli nostra vel ede tua

Despite learning Latin many years ago I am unable to translate this and
have no longer any dictionaries etc.  Can anyone help me?  It would be much
appreciated.

Patrick Powers