Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Ed Mullen]

Robert Kaiser wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher schrieb:

But I only want it to replace /blank/ tabs.


I think in 2.1 anything opening in new tabs replaces a currently active
blank tab.

Robert Kaiser



Just tried it.  Had two tabs (both blank), the second one had focus. 
Right-clicked on a folder containing several tabs and chose "Open all in 
tabs".  Only the focused tab was filled.  The first blank tab remained 
blank.  SM 2.1b1


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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Lucas Levrel wrote:


Le 12 janvier 2011, Paul B. Gallagher a écrit :


That was my old setting, before I followed your suggestion. With that
setting, an existing tab (blank or not) is preserved, and that was my
original complaint.

A regular bookmark can be told to replace an existing page or open in
a new page, but a groupmark cannot be told to add its tabs to an
existing set -- either I open a whole new window for it, or I replace
all my existing tabs.


Okay, you mean by right-clicking! Indeed, apart from the question of
replacing blanks, there could be a right-click option of "open in new
tabs".


I want a third option: add your tabs to my existing set, replacing any
blank ones but retaining any tabs with content.


That could be interesting for regular bookmarks also. However that might
give some strange results, like this:
Before:
Page X - Blank - Page Y - Blank - Page Z
After opening a group made of Pages 1/2/3...:
Page X - Page 1 - Page Y - Page 2 - Page Z - ...

Don't you think?


I hadn't thought of the ordering, but yes, that's interesting.

But the user can always reorder tabs by clicking and dragging them.

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Robert Kaiser]

Paul B. Gallagher schrieb:

But I only want it to replace /blank/ tabs.


I think in 2.1 anything opening in new tabs replaces a currently active 
blank tab.


Robert Kaiser

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Lucas Levrel]

Le 12 janvier 2011, Paul B. Gallagher a écrit :

That was my old setting, before I followed your suggestion. With that 
setting, an existing tab (blank or not) is preserved, and that was my 
original complaint.


A regular bookmark can be told to replace an existing page or open in a new 
page, but a groupmark cannot be told to add its tabs to an existing set -- 
either I open a whole new window for it, or I replace all my existing tabs.


Okay, you mean by right-clicking! Indeed, apart from the question of 
replacing blanks, there could be a right-click option of "open in new 
tabs".


I want a third option: add your tabs to my existing set, replacing any 
blank ones but retaining any tabs with content.


That could be interesting for regular bookmarks also. However that might 
give some strange results, like this:

Before:
Page X - Blank - Page Y - Blank - Page Z
After opening a group made of Pages 1/2/3...:
Page X - Page 1 - Page Y - Page 2 - Page Z - ...

Don't you think?
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Lucas Levrel wrote:


Le 12 janvier 2011, Paul B. Gallagher a écrit :


The difference between a bookmark and a groupmark is I can tell a
bookmark to open in a new tab, but I can't tell a groupmark to open in
new tabs.


Yes you can. See Prefs > Tabbed Browsing, second frame (don't know its
English label), it's about adding vs replacing tabs.


That was my old setting, before I followed your suggestion. With that 
setting, an existing tab (blank or not) is preserved, and that was my 
original complaint.


A regular bookmark can be told to replace an existing page or open in a 
new page, but a groupmark cannot be told to add its tabs to an existing 
set -- either I open a whole new window for it, or I replace all my 
existing tabs. I want a third option: add your tabs to my existing set, 
replacing any blank ones but retaining any tabs with content.


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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Lucas Levrel]

Le 12 janvier 2011, Paul B. Gallagher a écrit :

The difference between a bookmark and a groupmark is I can tell a bookmark to 
open in a new tab, but I can't tell a groupmark to open in new tabs.


Yes you can. See Prefs > Tabbed Browsing, second frame (don't know its 
English label), it's about adding vs replacing tabs.



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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Lucas Levrel wrote:


Le 11 janvier 2011, Paul B. Gallagher a écrit :


But I only want it to replace /blank/ tabs.


Yes, but regular bookmarks behave the same way: they either replace the
current tab (blank or not), or open in a new tab (the current being
blank or not). Or did I miss some functionality?


Before changing my pref, a regular bookmark replaced an existing page or 
tab, but a groupmark left the existing one intact.


Since changing the pref, a groupmark always replaces the existing page 
or tabs. So for example, I just had three tabs open, two of them blank, 
and chose a groupmark with four tabs, and I ended with a total of four 
tabs. The tab with content was lost, and so were the two blank ones.


I then tested with one tab having content and five blank tabs, and the 
four-page groupmark replaced all six with its own set of four. It acted 
as if it didn't know there were five blank tabs available for it, and 
forced the tab with content closed even though it didn't have to.


I can force the groupmark to open its four tabs in a new window, but I 
can't tell it to add those four tabs to an existing window or set of tabs.


The difference between a bookmark and a groupmark is I can tell a 
bookmark to open in a new tab, but I can't tell a groupmark to open in 
new tabs. It's either "replace all my open tabs" or "open in a new window."


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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Lucas Levrel]

Le 11 janvier 2011, Paul B. Gallagher a écrit :


But I only want it to replace /blank/ tabs.


Yes, but regular bookmarks behave the same way: they either replace the 
current tab (blank or not), or open in a new tab (the current being blank 
or not). Or did I miss some functionality?


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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Michael Gordon]

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Michael Gordon wrote:

When is a new bookmark set in the data file?


If by data file you mean the Places database SQLite file, then AFAIK
that will be a few moments (between milliseconds and seconds) after the
bookmark has been created (or otherwise changed, this also applies to
changes to existing bookmarks!), i.e. it's asynchronous.


Is it set the moment the user sets a web page as a bookmark?


AFAIK not the very moment; instead it's first written to memory (RAM),
then after some time flushed to disk. If the flushing to disk fails, the
change is lost. What the database ensures however is that the it stays
consistent, i.e. you either have the state before the change or the
state afterward, but never something else (provided the disk is OK of
course).


Is it set when SM is closed?


Of course, if SM is closed, the file is also written to disk if
previously accumulated changes have not been written to disk yet. It's
only the bookmarks.html export file that is only written to disk upon
exiting the application (if you tell it to do that via a pref).


If the bookmark is recorded in the data file the instant the user sets a
web page as a bookmark it won't matter what happens to SM a few moments
later, the bookmark will be set and recorded in the data file and ready
for instant use.


The system does not guarantee that any change you make stays persistent;
I should have been clearer about that. Only changes that have been
written to the database completely stay persistent. Those are safe then,
though.

HTH

Jens

Thank you for clearing up the confusion on the Bookmarks, their storage, 
and recovery.  It sounds to me like you have taken all the precautions 
possible to save and recover bookmarks.


Michael
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Jens Hatlak]

Michael Gordon wrote:

When is a new bookmark set in the data file?


If by data file you mean the Places database SQLite file, then AFAIK 
that will be a few moments (between milliseconds and seconds) after the 
bookmark has been created (or otherwise changed, this also applies to 
changes to existing bookmarks!), i.e. it's asynchronous.



Is it set the moment the user sets a web page as a bookmark?


AFAIK not the very moment; instead it's first written to memory (RAM), 
then after some time flushed to disk. If the flushing to disk fails, the 
change is lost. What the database ensures however is that the it stays 
consistent, i.e. you either have the state before the change or the 
state afterward, but never something else (provided the disk is OK of 
course).



Is it set when SM is closed?


Of course, if SM is closed, the file is also written to disk if 
previously accumulated changes have not been written to disk yet. It's 
only the bookmarks.html export file that is only written to disk upon 
exiting the application (if you tell it to do that via a pref).



If the bookmark is recorded in the data file the instant the user sets a
web page as a bookmark it won't matter what happens to SM a few moments
later, the bookmark will be set and recorded in the data file and ready
for instant use.


The system does not guarantee that any change you make stays persistent; 
I should have been clearer about that. Only changes that have been 
written to the database completely stay persistent. Those are safe then, 
though.


HTH

Jens

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Michael Gordon]

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Does this mean that in case of a crash or hang, SM fails to export the
DB and ... what? The info is lost, or just not backed up?


The HTML file is not the backup, it's just for those users who somehow
need or want to have it. HTML files are only for export and import, i.e.
the user, not the system itself. The new bookmarks back-end, Places,
uses a (transactional) database for storage, and the JSON format
(JavaScript) for backups, which are created automatically and can easily
be restored using the new Bookmarks Manager.

So provided you don't suffer from a hard disk breakage (SM's internal
backup of course doesn't free you from creating system backups!), you
should never permanently lose any of your bookmarks without your
explicit consent. You could get temporary inconsistencies between the
internal bookmarks storage and bookmarks.html, though (e.g. if the
latter could not be written due to a crash). In that case, just restart
SM and exit cleanly or export manually.

HTH

Jens



Jens,

Lets take a look back a few steps.
When is a new bookmark set in the data file?
Is it set the moment the user sets a web page as a bookmark?
Is it set when SM is closed?

If the bookmark is recorded in the data file the instant the user sets a 
web page as a bookmark it won't matter what happens to SM a few moments 
later, the bookmark will be set and recorded in the data file and ready 
for instant use.


Michael
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Jens Hatlak]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Does this mean that in case of a crash or hang, SM fails to export the
DB and ... what? The info is lost, or just not backed up?


The HTML file is not the backup, it's just for those users who somehow 
need or want to have it. HTML files are only for export and import, i.e. 
the user, not the system itself. The new bookmarks back-end, Places, 
uses a (transactional) database for storage, and the JSON format 
(JavaScript) for backups, which are created automatically and can easily 
be restored using the new Bookmarks Manager.


So provided you don't suffer from a hard disk breakage (SM's internal 
backup of course doesn't free you from creating system backups!), you 
should never permanently lose any of your bookmarks without your 
explicit consent. You could get temporary inconsistencies between the 
internal bookmarks storage and bookmarks.html, though (e.g. if the 
latter could not be written due to a crash). In that case, just restart 
SM and exit cleanly or export manually.


HTH

Jens

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Lucas Levrel wrote:


Le 10 janvier 2011, Paul B. Gallagher a écrit :


One thing I've always wished for with groupmarks is behavior similar
to that of ordinary bookmarks when a blank window is open. With an
ordinary bookmark, opening it from a blank navigator window puts the
contents in that blank window. But with a groupmark, opening it from a
blank navigator window leaves one blank tab where the open window sat,
and opens the various bookmarks in new tabs. So a groupmark with five
links yields six tabs, one of them blank.


Except if you set groupmarks to replace existing tabs in Prefs.


But I only want it to replace /blank/ tabs.

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Lucas Levrel]

Le 10 janvier 2011, Paul B. Gallagher a écrit :

One thing I've always wished for with groupmarks is behavior similar to that 
of ordinary bookmarks when a blank window is open. With an ordinary bookmark, 
opening it from a blank navigator window puts the contents in that blank 
window. But with a groupmark, opening it from a blank navigator window leaves 
one blank tab where the open window sat, and opens the various bookmarks in 
new tabs. So a groupmark with five links yields six tabs, one of them blank.


Except if you set groupmarks to replace existing tabs in Prefs.

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Philip Chee]

On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 03:44:08 +0100, Robert Kaiser wrote:
> Ray_Net schrieb:
>> Could you tell me what a groupmark is ?
> 
> A bookmark that consists of a group/set of tabs/pages and which would be 
> opened again as a set of tabs. Not sure how intensely it has been used 
> in the older bookmarks system, but it was there (and in its 
> implementation always a bit hackish).

As far as I can tell, the physical implementation in bookmarks.html was
a normal bookmarks folder with a groupmark flag. :P

Phil

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Philip Chee]

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:54:47 -0500, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

> One thing I've always wished for with groupmarks is behavior similar to 
> that of ordinary bookmarks when a blank window is open. With an ordinary 
> bookmark, opening it from a blank navigator window puts the contents in 
> that blank window. But with a groupmark, opening it from a blank 
> navigator window leaves one blank tab where the open window sat, and 
> opens the various bookmarks in new tabs. So a groupmark with five links 
> yields six tabs, one of them blank.

Yeah, opening a bookmark folder in a new window on trunk doesn't leave a
blank tab now.

Phil

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Philip Chee]

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:14:00 -0500, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
> Mark Hansen wrote:
> 
>> The way bookmarks are stored changed between pre-2.1 and 2.1.
>> In 2.1, bookmarks are stored in a database rather than in an html file.
>> The property mentioned above causes SM 2.1 to export the bookmarks (now
>> in a database) to an external html file upon exiting SM.
>>
>> You still "bookmark this page" just as you always have.
> 
> Does this mean that in case of a crash or hang, SM fails to export the 
> DB and ... what? The info is lost, or just not backed up?

sqlite is ACID a relational database so commits are atomic. In addition
the latest nightly builds come with a version of sqlite that has what
they call WAL I think that's their name for redo logs. So even if SM
crashes, when it starts up again the sqlite code will replay all
uncommitted transactions and update the database to a consistent state.
(Disclaimer: I spent ten years managing, coding, and customizing
enterprise class Oracle Financials databases but I don't know how much
of this applies to toy databases like SQLite).

> I know how to go into a broken HTML file and fix it, but what if the 
> database gets corrupted somehow -- will SM automatically save an empty 
> HTML file on exit? I'm sure I couldn't go in and fix the DB with SM 
> still running...
> 
> I'm sure you guys have thought this through, but I haven't.

Oh yes the Mozilla Storage team has thought long and hard on these and
other much more esoteric issues. For example to improve performance,
database writes occur asynchronously on multiple background threads.

Phil

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Robert Kaiser wrote:


Ray_Net schrieb:

Could you tell me what a groupmark is ?


A bookmark that consists of a group/set of tabs/pages and which would be
opened again as a set of tabs. Not sure how intensely it has been used
in the older bookmarks system, but it was there (and in its
implementation always a bit hackish).


One thing I've always wished for with groupmarks is behavior similar to 
that of ordinary bookmarks when a blank window is open. With an ordinary 
bookmark, opening it from a blank navigator window puts the contents in 
that blank window. But with a groupmark, opening it from a blank 
navigator window leaves one blank tab where the open window sat, and 
opens the various bookmarks in new tabs. So a groupmark with five links 
yields six tabs, one of them blank.


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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Robert Kaiser wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher schrieb:

Does this mean that in case of a crash or hang, SM fails to export the
DB and ... what? The info is lost, or just not backed up?


No, actually, things should be written out more often and in smaller
chunks and less likely to be destroyed with the database-driven solution
- and we also do automated backups that we automatically import in case
of corruptions, so things should actually be all in all much more stable
and less likely to be lost.


->Whew!<-

Vielen Dank!

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Robert Kaiser]

Paul B. Gallagher schrieb:

Does this mean that in case of a crash or hang, SM fails to export the
DB and ... what? The info is lost, or just not backed up?


No, actually, things should be written out more often and in smaller 
chunks and less likely to be destroyed with the database-driven solution 
- and we also do automated backups that we automatically import in case 
of corruptions, so things should actually be all in all much more stable 
and less likely to be lost.


Robert Kaiser

--
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arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Robert Kaiser]

Ray_Net schrieb:

Could you tell me what a groupmark is ?


A bookmark that consists of a group/set of tabs/pages and which would be 
opened again as a set of tabs. Not sure how intensely it has been used 
in the older bookmarks system, but it was there (and in its 
implementation always a bit hackish).


Robert Kaiser


--
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meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Rufus]

Robert Kaiser wrote:

Rufus schrieb:

I can only assume that all of the same information that was contained in
the flat file and all of the functionality currently in Manage Bookmarks
will be retained...and this is just a change in file structure/format
and not top level functionality...


For most things, that's right. The only feature I know that we lost in
the transition are groupmarks, which have been replaced by the
possibility to open any folder of bookmarks in tabs. Everything else
should (as far as I know) be preserved, but 2.1 also adds the
possibility to use tags on bookmarks, use "livemarks", saved bookmarks
searches, and a few other things (which are easier to do with the
database model).

Robert Kaiser




Sounds interesting overall - I do use folders extensively for bookmark 
groupings, so we'll see if I have to work up a new strategy or not.


--
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Larry]

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 1/10/2011 9:16 AM, Larry wrote:

JP. Baker wrote:

I haven't had time to check but doesn't the config option
browser.bookmarks.autoExportHTML work in 2.1b - if so this
should create an updated bookmarks.html on shutdown.


This is a bit confusing. In 2.0.11 I can choose whether or not to
bookmark a page ("Bookmark This Page"), and when I do so (I thought)
that choice is preserved upon exiting the bookmark file. Does this
option mean that I have to, or don't have to, choose to bookmark a page?
When is my choice preserved, or is it if I don't select this option?




The way bookmarks are stored changed between pre-2.1 and 2.1.
In 2.1, bookmarks are stored in a database rather than in an html file.
The property mentioned above causes SM 2.1 to export the bookmarks (now
in a database) to an external html file upon exiting SM.

You still "bookmark this page" just as you always have.

Got it -- thanks!
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Mark Hansen wrote:


The way bookmarks are stored changed between pre-2.1 and 2.1.
In 2.1, bookmarks are stored in a database rather than in an html file.
The property mentioned above causes SM 2.1 to export the bookmarks (now
in a database) to an external html file upon exiting SM.

You still "bookmark this page" just as you always have.


Does this mean that in case of a crash or hang, SM fails to export the 
DB and ... what? The info is lost, or just not backed up?


I know how to go into a broken HTML file and fix it, but what if the 
database gets corrupted somehow -- will SM automatically save an empty 
HTML file on exit? I'm sure I couldn't go in and fix the DB with SM 
still running...


I'm sure you guys have thought this through, but I haven't.

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Walter]

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 1/10/2011 4:40 PM, Walter wrote:


Ray_Net wrote:

Robert Kaiser wrote:

Rufus schrieb:

I can only assume that all of the same information that was contained in
the flat file and all of the functionality currently in Manage Bookmarks
will be retained...and this is just a change in file structure/format
and not top level functionality...


For most things, that's right. The only feature I know that we lost in
the transition are groupmarks, which have been replaced by the
possibility to open any folder of bookmarks in tabs. Everything else
should (as far as I know) be preserved, but 2.1 also adds the
possibility to use tags on bookmarks, use "livemarks", saved bookmarks
searches, and a few other things (which are easier to do with the
database model).



Hi !
Could you tell me what a groupmark is ?
I see only "bookmark", "folder" and "separator" when managing bookmarks.




I remember word marks and group marks on the old IBM 1401 and 1410. A
gumwum (groupmark+wordmark) would stop any data file record transfer.
Back in the 1960s.
w.


Do you believe that is what is being referred to here?


No, just recalling a memory from second generation computers. My apology 
if it offends anybody.


w.

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Mark Hansen]

On 1/10/2011 4:40 PM, Walter wrote:
> 
> Ray_Net wrote:
>> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>> Rufus schrieb:
 I can only assume that all of the same information that was contained in
 the flat file and all of the functionality currently in Manage Bookmarks
 will be retained...and this is just a change in file structure/format
 and not top level functionality...
>>>
>>> For most things, that's right. The only feature I know that we lost in
>>> the transition are groupmarks, which have been replaced by the
>>> possibility to open any folder of bookmarks in tabs. Everything else
>>> should (as far as I know) be preserved, but 2.1 also adds the
>>> possibility to use tags on bookmarks, use "livemarks", saved bookmarks
>>> searches, and a few other things (which are easier to do with the
>>> database model).
>>>
>>
>> Hi !
>> Could you tell me what a groupmark is ?
>> I see only "bookmark", "folder" and "separator" when managing bookmarks.
>>
> 
> 
> I remember word marks and group marks on the old IBM 1401 and 1410. A 
> gumwum (groupmark+wordmark) would stop any data file record transfer. 
> Back in the 1960s.
> w.

Do you believe that is what is being referred to here?
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Walter]

Ray_Net wrote:

Robert Kaiser wrote:

Rufus schrieb:

I can only assume that all of the same information that was contained in
the flat file and all of the functionality currently in Manage Bookmarks
will be retained...and this is just a change in file structure/format
and not top level functionality...


For most things, that's right. The only feature I know that we lost in
the transition are groupmarks, which have been replaced by the
possibility to open any folder of bookmarks in tabs. Everything else
should (as far as I know) be preserved, but 2.1 also adds the
possibility to use tags on bookmarks, use "livemarks", saved bookmarks
searches, and a few other things (which are easier to do with the
database model).



Hi !
Could you tell me what a groupmark is ?
I see only "bookmark", "folder" and "separator" when managing bookmarks.




I remember word marks and group marks on the old IBM 1401 and 1410. A 
gumwum (groupmark+wordmark) would stop any data file record transfer. 
Back in the 1960s.

w.
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Mark Hansen]

On 1/10/2011 9:16 AM, Larry wrote:
> JP. Baker wrote:
>> I haven't had time to check but doesn't the config option
>> browser.bookmarks.autoExportHTML work in 2.1b - if so this
>> should create an updated bookmarks.html on shutdown.
>>
> This is a bit confusing. In 2.0.11 I can choose whether or not to 
> bookmark a page ("Bookmark This Page"), and when I do so (I thought) 
> that choice is preserved upon exiting the bookmark file. Does this 
> option mean that I have to, or don't have to, choose to bookmark a page? 
> When is my choice preserved, or is it if I don't select this option?
> 
> 

The way bookmarks are stored changed between pre-2.1 and 2.1.
In 2.1, bookmarks are stored in a database rather than in an html file.
The property mentioned above causes SM 2.1 to export the bookmarks (now
in a database) to an external html file upon exiting SM.

You still "bookmark this page" just as you always have.
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Ray_Net]

Robert Kaiser wrote:

Rufus schrieb:

I can only assume that all of the same information that was contained in
the flat file and all of the functionality currently in Manage Bookmarks
will be retained...and this is just a change in file structure/format
and not top level functionality...


For most things, that's right. The only feature I know that we lost in
the transition are groupmarks, which have been replaced by the
possibility to open any folder of bookmarks in tabs. Everything else
should (as far as I know) be preserved, but 2.1 also adds the
possibility to use tags on bookmarks, use "livemarks", saved bookmarks
searches, and a few other things (which are easier to do with the
database model).



Hi !
Could you tell me what a groupmark is ?
I see only "bookmark", "folder" and "separator" when managing bookmarks.

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Philip Chee]

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:13:17 +0100, Robert Kaiser wrote:
> Rufus schrieb:
>> I can only assume that all of the same information that was contained in
>> the flat file and all of the functionality currently in Manage Bookmarks
>> will be retained...and this is just a change in file structure/format
>> and not top level functionality...
> 
> For most things, that's right. The only feature I know that we lost in 
> the transition are groupmarks, which have been replaced by the 
> possibility to open any folder of bookmarks in tabs. Everything else 
> should (as far as I know) be preserved, but 2.1 also adds the 
> possibility to use tags on bookmarks, use "livemarks", saved bookmarks 
> searches, and a few other things (which are easier to do with the 
> database model).

The "Check this location for updates" and associated settings for each
bookmark went away as well but then I never used it so didn't miss it.

Phil

-- 
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Larry]

JP. Baker wrote:

I haven't had time to check but doesn't the config option
browser.bookmarks.autoExportHTML work in 2.1b - if so this
should create an updated bookmarks.html on shutdown.

This is a bit confusing. In 2.0.11 I can choose whether or not to 
bookmark a page ("Bookmark This Page"), and when I do so (I thought) 
that choice is preserved upon exiting the bookmark file. Does this 
option mean that I have to, or don't have to, choose to bookmark a page? 
When is my choice preserved, or is it if I don't select this option?



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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Robert Kaiser]

JP. Baker schrieb:

I haven't had time to check but doesn't the config option
browser.bookmarks.autoExportHTML work in 2.1b - if so this
should create an updated bookmarks.html on shutdown.


It should work.

Robert Kaiser


--
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meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[JP. Baker]

I haven't had time to check but doesn't the config option
browser.bookmarks.autoExportHTML work in 2.1b - if so this
should create an updated bookmarks.html on shutdown.

-- 
John P Baker
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Robert Kaiser]

Rufus schrieb:

I can only assume that all of the same information that was contained in
the flat file and all of the functionality currently in Manage Bookmarks
will be retained...and this is just a change in file structure/format
and not top level functionality...


For most things, that's right. The only feature I know that we lost in 
the transition are groupmarks, which have been replaced by the 
possibility to open any folder of bookmarks in tabs. Everything else 
should (as far as I know) be preserved, but 2.1 also adds the 
possibility to use tags on bookmarks, use "livemarks", saved bookmarks 
searches, and a few other things (which are easier to do with the 
database model).


Robert Kaiser


--
Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never 
meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Robert Kaiser]

Rufus schrieb:

...ahh. I've noticed that during startup if I try to make a bookmark
selection before everything is fully started the pane will snap shut on
me and I have to start over...I suppose this is why? I have tons of
bookmarks.


That surely could be connected. Working with a large amount of bookmarks 
should work better in the database-backed system we have in 2.1, and 
your bookmarks should also be safer, as it automatically creates and 
keeps backups of your bookmarks data.



How about Master Password behavior in 2.1.x - fixed?


No idea. I know we should have some improvements in that area, but I 
know the details too little to know if your case is fixed or not.


Robert Kaiser


--
Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never 
meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Rufus]

David E. Ross wrote:

On 1/9/11 12:37 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

Robert Kaiser wrote:

Ray_Net schrieb:

Why they put this txt file
into a file that cannot be used by notepad.exe ?


Because a database is faster for accessing specific data, needs less
memory (we don't need to parse and analyze all data just to display some
part of it), allows more efficient and flexible organization (like tags)
easily and enables better exchange for things like Sync.


I am using 2.0.x with the flat file bookmarks.html without noticing any
slowdown of SM. SM is slow in other parts.
IMHO - BTW the actual bookmarks.html have too many unneeded extra items
attached per entry. the only need things is a "choiced name" the "url"
and eventually a directory tree.


I disagree.

Several of my bookmarks also have comments.  For example, I usually
enable images only from the requested domain, but I have comments on
some bookmarks "requires all images" .

Also, I sometimes want to see the last time I went to a bookmarked site.
  No, I don't want to go to my history file and compare URIs with my
bookmarks.  In any case, I retain history only 45 days.



I can only assume that all of the same information that was contained in 
the flat file and all of the functionality currently in Manage Bookmarks 
will be retained...and this is just a change in file structure/format 
and not top level functionality...


...at least that's what I hope.

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[David E. Ross]

On 1/9/11 12:37 PM, Ray_Net wrote:
> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>> Ray_Net schrieb:
>>> Why they put this txt file
>>> into a file that cannot be used by notepad.exe ?
>>
>> Because a database is faster for accessing specific data, needs less
>> memory (we don't need to parse and analyze all data just to display some
>> part of it), allows more efficient and flexible organization (like tags)
>> easily and enables better exchange for things like Sync.
>>
> I am using 2.0.x with the flat file bookmarks.html without noticing any 
> slowdown of SM. SM is slow in other parts.
> IMHO - BTW the actual bookmarks.html have too many unneeded extra items 
> attached per entry. the only need things is a "choiced name" the "url" 
> and eventually a directory tree.

I disagree.

Several of my bookmarks also have comments.  For example, I usually
enable images only from the requested domain, but I have comments on
some bookmarks "requires all images" .

Also, I sometimes want to see the last time I went to a bookmarked site.
 No, I don't want to go to my history file and compare URIs with my
bookmarks.  In any case, I retain history only 45 days.

-- 

David E. Ross


On occasion, I might filter and ignore all newsgroup messages
posted through GoogleGroups via Google's G2/1.0 user agent
because of spam from that source.
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Rufus]

Robert Kaiser wrote:

Ray_Net schrieb:

I am using 2.0.x with the flat file bookmarks.html without noticing any
slowdown of SM.


The slowdowns of the old systems are mostly in startup (and esp. with
large bookmarks files), as it needs to load all data into an in-memory
datasource structure before displaying anything.

Robert Kaiser




...ahh.  I've noticed that during startup if I try to make a bookmark 
selection before everything is fully started the pane will snap shut on 
me and I have to start over...I suppose this is why?  I have tons of 
bookmarks.


How about Master Password behavior in 2.1.x - fixed?  I get SM asking 
for my Master seemingly "at random" even though I have it set to only 
ask the first time it is needed - which shouldn't be unless I manually 
check messages in Mail or navigate to a web page with a stored password.


This used to work, but somehow got broken back around 1.1.17 as I 
recall...if it asks during a download SM freezes and I have to Force 
Quit SM and restart to get out of it.  I think I wrote a bug on this, 
but I can't remember...I'd be happy if it just behaved as advertised.


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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Robert Kaiser]

Ray_Net schrieb:

I am using 2.0.x with the flat file bookmarks.html without noticing any
slowdown of SM.


The slowdowns of the old systems are mostly in startup (and esp. with 
large bookmarks files), as it needs to load all data into an in-memory 
datasource structure before displaying anything.


Robert Kaiser


--
Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never 
meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Rufus]

Robert Kaiser wrote:

Rufus schrieb:

But can you also import?


Yes, you can import and export from/to HTML.

Robert Kaiser




Fantastic.

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Ray_Net]

Robert Kaiser wrote:

Ray_Net schrieb:

Why they put this txt file
into a file that cannot be used by notepad.exe ?


Because a database is faster for accessing specific data, needs less
memory (we don't need to parse and analyze all data just to display some
part of it), allows more efficient and flexible organization (like tags)
easily and enables better exchange for things like Sync.

I am using 2.0.x with the flat file bookmarks.html without noticing any 
slowdown of SM. SM is slow in other parts.
IMHO - BTW the actual bookmarks.html have too many unneeded extra items 
attached per entry. the only need things is a "choiced name" the "url" 
and eventually a directory tree.

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Robert Kaiser]

Ray_Net schrieb:

Why they put this txt file
into a file that cannot be used by notepad.exe ?


Because a database is faster for accessing specific data, needs less 
memory (we don't need to parse and analyze all data just to display some 
part of it), allows more efficient and flexible organization (like tags) 
easily and enables better exchange for things like Sync.


We still offer import and export from/to HTML, of course.

Robert Kaiser

--
Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never 
meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Robert Kaiser]

Rufus schrieb:

But can you also import?


Yes, you can import and export from/to HTML.

Robert Kaiser


--
Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never 
meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Paul B. Gallagher]

adse...@br0wn.co.uk wrote:


Back to my original question, I'm using 2.0.11 according to help_about
so I guess that must be true.

I seached the whole CD drive and there's no bookmarks file that
matches the one that seamonkey currently displays when its running.
Also, none of the files I can find have an edit date of today when I
change my current bookmarks.

So this is impossible, right? Maybe if I create a new profile?


Why would you look on a CD? Aren't you running from your hard disk?

Or was that a typo?

--
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--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[adsense]

Back to my original question, I'm using 2.0.11 according to help_about
so I guess that must be true.

I seached the whole CD drive and there's no bookmarks file that
matches the one that seamonkey currently displays when its running.
Also, none of the files I can find have an edit date of today when I
change my current bookmarks.

So this is impossible, right? Maybe if I create a new profile?

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Rufus]

Philip Chee wrote:

On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:53:13 -0800, Rufus wrote:

Tony Mechelynck wrote:

On 09/01/11 00:29, Ray_Net wrote:

In SeaMonkey 2.1, bookmarks will be in a SQLite database in your profile
directory, not in a text .html file. Database files have the extension
.sqlite (of course). I'm not sure, but I think bookmarks will be in
places.sqlite.



Another good reason to stay in 2.0.x  Why they put this txt file
into a file that cannot be used by notepad.exe ?



They rewrote the way bookmarks are handled: it isn't text anymore, it's
a database. You can sill export the bookmarks that are in that database
to a bookmarks.html file, but you have to ask for it (by opening the
Bookmarks Manager, then "Tools =>  Export HTML" in it).



But can you also import?  Being able to edit bookmarks.html into handy
lists with a simple text editor, and even e-mail those to share them was
a *feature*, IMO.


SeaMonkey 2.1 will come with Weave/Sync so you can sync your history and
bookmarks (and passwords etc) with other instances of not just SeaMonkey
2.1 but also Firefox, Firefox Mobile (and on iPhone, Firefox Home).

And html import still works of course.

Phil



That's good.  I'll more than likely stick with .html files for editing, 
e-mailing, and sharing.


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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Philip Chee]

On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:53:13 -0800, Rufus wrote:
> Tony Mechelynck wrote:
>> On 09/01/11 00:29, Ray_Net wrote:
 In SeaMonkey 2.1, bookmarks will be in a SQLite database in your profile
 directory, not in a text .html file. Database files have the extension
 .sqlite (of course). I'm not sure, but I think bookmarks will be in
 places.sqlite.

>>> Another good reason to stay in 2.0.x  Why they put this txt file
>>> into a file that cannot be used by notepad.exe ?

>> They rewrote the way bookmarks are handled: it isn't text anymore, it's
>> a database. You can sill export the bookmarks that are in that database
>> to a bookmarks.html file, but you have to ask for it (by opening the
>> Bookmarks Manager, then "Tools => Export HTML" in it).

> But can you also import?  Being able to edit bookmarks.html into handy 
> lists with a simple text editor, and even e-mail those to share them was 
> a *feature*, IMO.

SeaMonkey 2.1 will come with Weave/Sync so you can sync your history and
bookmarks (and passwords etc) with other instances of not just SeaMonkey
2.1 but also Firefox, Firefox Mobile (and on iPhone, Firefox Home).

And html import still works of course.

Phil

-- 
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Rufus]

Tony Mechelynck wrote:

On 09/01/11 00:29, Ray_Net wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

On 1/8/11 9:08 AM, adse...@br0wn.co.uk wrote:

I just came back to seamonkey with 2.011. A while ago I used 1.1.18
and the bookmarks.html file was tucked away in
c:\documents and setting\application data\mozilla\sea monkey\profiles
I like to put it in my daily autobackup.

While with the new seamonkey I can use export to create a
bookmarks.html, I can't file the current file anywhere. Where have
they hidden it?


Are you sure you have SeaMonkey 2.0.11 and not some beta SeaMonkey 2.1x?

In SeaMonkey 2.0.x (including 2.0.11), bookmarks are in the file
bookmarks.html in your profile directory.

In SeaMonkey 2.1, bookmarks will be in a SQLite database in your profile
directory, not in a text .html file. Database files have the extension
.sqlite (of course). I'm not sure, but I think bookmarks will be in
places.sqlite.



Another good reason to stay in 2.0.x  Why they put this txt file
into a file that cannot be used by notepad.exe ?


They rewrote the way bookmarks are handled: it isn't text anymore, it's
a database. You can sill export the bookmarks that are in that database
to a bookmarks.html file, but you have to ask for it (by opening the
Bookmarks Manager, then "Tools => Export HTML" in it).

Best regards,
Tony.


But can you also import?  Being able to edit bookmarks.html into handy 
lists with a simple text editor, and even e-mail those to share them was 
a *feature*, IMO.


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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Rufus]

Ray_Net wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

On 1/8/11 9:08 AM, adse...@br0wn.co.uk wrote:

I just came back to seamonkey with 2.011. A while ago I used 1.1.18
and the bookmarks.html file was tucked away in
c:\documents and setting\application data\mozilla\sea monkey\profiles
I like to put it in my daily autobackup.

While with the new seamonkey I can use export to create a
bookmarks.html, I can't file the current file anywhere. Where have
they hidden it?


Are you sure you have SeaMonkey 2.0.11 and not some beta SeaMonkey 2.1x?

In SeaMonkey 2.0.x (including 2.0.11), bookmarks are in the file
bookmarks.html in your profile directory.

In SeaMonkey 2.1, bookmarks will be in a SQLite database in your profile
directory, not in a text .html file. Database files have the extension
.sqlite (of course). I'm not sure, but I think bookmarks will be in
places.sqlite.



Another good reason to stay in 2.0.x  Why they put this txt file
into a file that cannot be used by notepad.exe ?


...*that* sucks.

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Tony Mechelynck]

On 09/01/11 00:29, Ray_Net wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

On 1/8/11 9:08 AM, adse...@br0wn.co.uk wrote:

I just came back to seamonkey with 2.011. A while ago I used 1.1.18
and the bookmarks.html file was tucked away in
c:\documents and setting\application data\mozilla\sea monkey\profiles
I like to put it in my daily autobackup.

While with the new seamonkey I can use export to create a
bookmarks.html, I can't file the current file anywhere. Where have
they hidden it?


Are you sure you have SeaMonkey 2.0.11 and not some beta SeaMonkey 2.1x?

In SeaMonkey 2.0.x (including 2.0.11), bookmarks are in the file
bookmarks.html in your profile directory.

In SeaMonkey 2.1, bookmarks will be in a SQLite database in your profile
directory, not in a text .html file. Database files have the extension
.sqlite (of course). I'm not sure, but I think bookmarks will be in
places.sqlite.



Another good reason to stay in 2.0.x  Why they put this txt file
into a file that cannot be used by notepad.exe ?


They rewrote the way bookmarks are handled: it isn't text anymore, it's 
a database. You can sill export the bookmarks that are in that database 
to a bookmarks.html file, but you have to ask for it (by opening the 
Bookmarks Manager, then "Tools => Export HTML" in it).


Best regards,
Tony.
--
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like.
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Ray_Net]

David E. Ross wrote:

On 1/8/11 9:08 AM, adse...@br0wn.co.uk wrote:

I just came back to seamonkey with 2.011. A while ago I used 1.1.18
and the bookmarks.html file was tucked away in
c:\documents and setting\application data\mozilla\sea monkey\profiles
I like to put it in my daily autobackup.

While with the new seamonkey I can use export to create a
bookmarks.html, I can't file the current file anywhere. Where have
they hidden it?


Are you sure you have SeaMonkey 2.0.11 and not some beta SeaMonkey 2.1x?

In SeaMonkey 2.0.x (including 2.0.11), bookmarks are in the file
bookmarks.html in your profile directory.

In SeaMonkey 2.1, bookmarks will be in a SQLite database in your profile
directory, not in a text .html file.  Database files have the extension
.sqlite (of course).  I'm not sure, but I think bookmarks will be in
places.sqlite.



Another good reason to stay in 2.0.x    Why they put this txt file 
into a file that cannot be used by notepad.exe ?

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Paul B. Gallagher]

adse...@br0wn.co.uk wrote:


Look in here on your Windows XP system:
C:\Documents and Settings\user name\Application
Data\Mozilla\SeaMonkey\Profiles\xxu.Xxx  x. is the new
profile name if you created a new profile for SM 2.x, if you did not
create a new profile SM 2.x will have created one for you ending in Default.

Michael


That's exactly where I'm already looking. There's just one profile
there, it contains a bookmarks.html but its an empty one, not the one
that's currently in use.


My current bookmarks file is at
C:\Documents and Settings\My Name Here\Application 
Data\Mozilla\SeaMonkey\Profiles\.default

just as described.

FWIW.

If you want to search for it, I'd search in
C:\Documents and Settings\Your Name Here\Application Data\Mozilla\
which should cover all SM 2 profiles, and specify that Windows should 
look in all subdirectories.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[David E. Ross]

On 1/8/11 9:08 AM, adse...@br0wn.co.uk wrote:
> I just came back to seamonkey with 2.011. A while ago I used 1.1.18
> and the bookmarks.html file was tucked away in
> c:\documents and setting\application data\mozilla\sea monkey\profiles
> I like to put it in my daily autobackup.
> 
> While with the new seamonkey I can use export to create a
> bookmarks.html, I can't file the current file anywhere. Where have
> they hidden it?

Are you sure you have SeaMonkey 2.0.11 and not some beta SeaMonkey 2.1x?

In SeaMonkey 2.0.x (including 2.0.11), bookmarks are in the file
bookmarks.html in your profile directory.

In SeaMonkey 2.1, bookmarks will be in a SQLite database in your profile
directory, not in a text .html file.  Database files have the extension
.sqlite (of course).  I'm not sure, but I think bookmarks will be in
places.sqlite.

-- 

David E. Ross


On occasion, I might filter and ignore all newsgroup messages
posted through GoogleGroups via Google's G2/1.0 user agent
because of spam from that source.
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Paul]

adse...@br0wn.co.uk wrote:

I just came back to seamonkey with 2.011. A while ago I used 1.1.18
and the bookmarks.html file was tucked away in
c:\documents and setting\application data\mozilla\sea monkey\profiles
I like to put it in my daily autobackup.

While with the new seamonkey I can use export to create a
bookmarks.html, I can't file the current file anywhere. Where have
they hidden it?


Assuming you are using Windows you should be able
to search for it.
start/ search /files and folders/ named *.html

Granted you may get back hundreds but just look at
the ones related to sm.
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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[adsense]

> Look in here on your Windows XP system:
> C:\Documents and Settings\user name\Application
> Data\Mozilla\SeaMonkey\Profiles\xxu.Xxx  x. is the new
> profile name if you created a new profile for SM 2.x, if you did not
> create a new profile SM 2.x will have created one for you ending in Default.
>
> Michael

That's exactly where I'm already looking. There's just one profile
there, it contains a bookmarks.html but its an empty one, not the one
that's currently in use.

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Re: where is bookmarks.html?

[Michael Gordon]

adse...@br0wn.co.uk wrote:

I just came back to seamonkey with 2.011. A while ago I used 1.1.18
and the bookmarks.html file was tucked away in
c:\documents and setting\application data\mozilla\sea monkey\profiles
I like to put it in my daily autobackup.

While with the new seamonkey I can use export to create a
bookmarks.html, I can't file the current file anywhere. Where have
they hidden it?


Look in here on your Windows XP system:
C:\Documents and Settings\user name\Application 
Data\Mozilla\SeaMonkey\Profiles\xxu.Xxx  x. is the new 
profile name if you created a new profile for SM 2.x, if you did not 
create a new profile SM 2.x will have created one for you ending in Default.


Michael
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where is bookmarks.html?

[adsense]

I just came back to seamonkey with 2.011. A while ago I used 1.1.18
and the bookmarks.html file was tucked away in
c:\documents and setting\application data\mozilla\sea monkey\profiles
I like to put it in my daily autobackup.

While with the new seamonkey I can use export to create a
bookmarks.html, I can't file the current file anywhere. Where have
they hidden it?
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