Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Brian, so I guess you were never the cadillac-man type? This is your situation. You've got yourself a Caddy of a PH Tester. Enjoy. Michael Lendzian CINS Network Support Team Columbus State University CINS/Center for Commerce Technology Room 105 706.569.3044 (help desk) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Vegetable oil for machining coolant
Any fluid which will not release harmful vapors when heated that is Joe garutek wrote: Snip If this is for developing country use any fluid will work as long as the fluid is not explosive or cost prohibitive. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
I'd say that is a sweet deal! Do you have a calibration solution to verify the probe is not screwed? I work in a university and I wouldn't be surprised at all to grab a fine instrument and find out someone had demoed the probe and not said a word. It would be a good idea to verify it first. Don't be tempted to put that expensive probe in the biodiesel though or you may have to replace it! Joe Brian Rodgers wrote: Holy cow! I asked for it and I received a doozy. The pH meter the university lent me is a bit of overkill I should think. Tell me what you think. Sitting here on my desk is a Texas Instruments TI-83 Plus Silver edition. I already figured out to turn it on and off, pretty good, hey! It has a manual on CD five firewire ports and a fancy probe sitting in its own bath. AM I in for it with this thing? I mean, I want to do a good titration but really??? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Hello Mr. Burgos, Animal fat was a natural first choice as we produce a fair amount of beef here in Uruguay.From my reading on the JTF site, I found that it was a viable candidate and there are several papers available there for using it. It made sense from a chemical standpoint as fat is essentially all saturated hydrocarbon. With only single bonded carbons I knew that polymerization at temperature is not likely. I tried about 10 or 15 small batches and never had a single bad batch with methoxide as a cataylst. Then I shifted to ethoxide andhad a few successes and many failures. I shifted back to methoxide to check if my technique had gone bad. It hadn't.Istill got very good separation of glycerine and all washed batches passed density, wash, chemical, and motor testing. I'm currently working on waste vegetable oil which is extraordinarily variable here. Titration testing is a must do task with each new supplier and sometimes with each batch from each supplier but I get the material for free. For me this is methoxide only territory but I'm still very curious as to why I hadmostly failure butsome success with ethoxide. I probably go back to it once I'm producing enough for my home and farm needs. Tom Irwin From: francisco j burgos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:14:40 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: Did you find by your own experience that tallow is a good raw material for producing biodiesel? or there is any bibliography that you can indicate me on the subject?. Your help will be the most appreciated, thanks in advance. Cordially, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Juan, I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable oil is usually available from restaurants. It'squite variable and more difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get itfor just your transport costs. If you live in apoorer area then look for wild castor beans. They'rehave large yields and are generally free for the picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather well fora garden or farmsoil amendment. It takes a stronger stomach than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites. Tom Irwin From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BDFree is the best oil to use ;-)Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat?I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanksJuan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Starting at Square One
No experience with the I-mark, but if it has the same 2.2 NA liter
diesel engine as the pickup from the same year, it should be a good
catch. Those engines were known to be pretty bulletproof, and also
good for use with SVO or biodiesel. Slow as dirt, but 35mpg in the 4wd
trucks. The car should be lighter and not quite so slow.
Unfortunately, the trucks rusted pretty bad so it's hard to find one
with a good body any more. I almost bought one last spring, but ended
up getting a Mitsubishi instead, because of the rust on the isuzu.
From the picture the engine looks the same, but could be the same
design and smaller displacement I suppose. The non-working
temperature guage is concerning, because overheating a diesel with an
aluminum head and cast iron block usually means putting a new head
gasket in it -- as least in the VW diesels. But that's pretty easy to
add a new temperature guage.
Zeke
On 10/20/05, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Right, so.
Having been informed with better knowledge.
Having armed myself with better equipment, a better mindset, and more free
time with less stress.
I'm starting back over at square one, folks. :p
My initial batches, the ones made with the 2g increment scale and the
original volumetric method I improvised, are utterly worthless as fuel.
They're sitting in a five gallon bucket off to one side, full of sodium
hydroxide and who knows what else.
This leaves me with a 500mL test batch that I made via a slightly refined
version of my volumetric method, and a 2L test batch that I made using the
scale and the standard measured out 3.5g/L oil. Both were made with virgin,
unused cooking oil from the store, and both were measured out on the dryest
day I could find in a plastic bag.
The volumetric batch shake-tested fine (With room temp water, ~70F on the
day I did it). I say fine, as it didn't emulse, but it did go from a
beautiful clear yellow-amber color to a hazy yellowish. Washing 300mL of it
has produced hazy wash water and hazy yellow product. Heating it clears it
up almost instantly (Only have to raise it to around 80F or so, not much),
but as soon as it cools it hazes again just as quickly.
The other batch I just finished mixing yesterday, in a two-gallon bucket
with a paint mixer. I had problems dissolving all of the hydroxide in the
methanol, so I let it go for a full 28 hours before adding it in, to make
certain none of the NaOH settled back out. It was a little hazy, but nothing
settled so I figured it was good.
It's currently settling in a five gallon bucket (Work goes through them at
a rate of about 5-8 buckets a week, we get pickles shipped to us in them.
Anyone in the area need lots of buckets? We have a whole pile of them out
behind our store, city trash won't take them), I plan on drawing some out
and shake-testing it later tonight. I'm hoping, fingers crossed and all
that, that it won't turn out badly.
Volumetric batch:
500mL Virgin cooking oil
100mL Methanol (HEET fuel dryer, methanol type)
1.75g NaOH (Red Devil lye)
The lye came out to be .833 mL of lye, taking eight of my little scoops.
It's tedious, I'm telling you. I'll probably lay that experimentation aside
until I go to larger, less accuracy needed batches where it will make easier
measuring to weight. Then it's experimentation time again, just because it
interests me. Mixed it up in a quart-size mason jar using a hot-water bath
to keep it to temperature.
Scaled batch:
2000 mL virgin cooking oil
400mL Methanol (Same as above)
7g NaOH (Same)
Mixed up in a 2~ish gallon bucket (We also generate these at work, though
only one every few weeks or so) with a paint mixer run through the lid by a
corded drill, then the whole mess decanted into a spare five gallon bucket
for settling.
So, yeah. Starting over starts now. Any suggestions or commentary on these
two would be muchly appreciated.
Also, does anyone on the list have any experience at all with the Isuzu
I-mark diesel car? I'm somewhat kinda/sorta flirting with the idea of
bidding on the one currently up for sale in NC on E-bay, if I can convince
my parents to help finance the venture {It's a wonderful thing, still being
able to get loans through the parents. More flexible payback schedules, for
one thing. ;)} and we go and check it out first.
Just wondering if anyone on the list has had good/bad experiences with it.
The shifter looks a little funky from the pictures, almost like it shifts
perpendicular to the floor.
Peace out.
-Kurt
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Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol from cabbage
find a table of nutrition and add up the grams of sugar and carbohydrate present. Those are the fermentable materials. (the carbohydrate portion will require an enzyme, maltase, to make into fermentable sugars) John Hall wrote: I have been trying to find out what is best used for fermenting cabbage for ethanol production. Not much out there on the web. Anyone have a suggestion? The only thing I've found so far is for producing sauerkraut and ethanol production is minimal using those enzymes. Why cabbage? Because there are 40 acres of cabbage in front of and to the south of my house. About half the cabbage is actually picked for market due to size etc. and the rest rots in the field over the winter. If ethanol can be produced from what's left then so much the better. Thanks. Regards; John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol from cabbage
Personally I have found cabbage to be especially useful in methane production. Not very useable but fun none the less. fredOn 10/21/05, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: find a table of nutrition and add up the grams of sugar and carbohydratepresent.Those are the fermentable materials.(the carbohydrateportion will require an enzyme, maltase, to make into fermentable sugars) John Hall wrote: I have been trying to find out what is best used for fermenting cabbage for ethanol production.Not much out there on the web.Anyone have a suggestion?The only thing I've found so far is for producing sauerkraut and ethanol production is minimal using those enzymes. Why cabbage?Because there are 40 acres of cabbage in front of and to the south of my house.About half the cabbage is actually picked for market due to size etc. and the rest rots in the field over the winter.If ethanol can be produced from what's left then so much the better. Thanks. Regards; John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --Bob Allenhttp://ozarker.org/bobScience is what we have learned about how to keepfrom fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] oil price gouging poll
I wasn't around in the 60's, but as long as I remember, we wore seatbelts. My dad refused to start the car if everyone didn't have their belt on, and he even added belts to some older vehicals that didn't have them. How did this thread turn from price gouging to seat belt use anyway? On 10/20/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thet were lapbelts in the 60's. We wore them. Most of my friends didn't. I had one friend get offended when I put mine on while in the passenger seat. His comment was: I thought you trusted my driving - I said, I do, but if you are at a red light and someone plows into you from behind, what does that have to do with your driving skill? Are you going to look in the rear view mirrow and levitate over the car in front of you? No response. I've always felt that any idea Detriot is dead set against means it must be a good one. It's a good way to judge whether or not the country should do it. CAFE, emissions, safety - the list goes on. I am not a big fan of automotive black boxes - I don't want my car spying on me. I'm not buying a new car because of it, or until I figure out how to disable it or crack it. -Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, I completely agree with your first point that corporate welfare should be stopped. However, I have to disagree with you on your second point. Labor laws and government-mandated worker safety standards have had a crippling effect on many small-to-medium sized companies. Many of these regulations began as corporate-union concessions, or industry-standard committees. By the government stepping in and enacting regulations, both labor unions and corporate negotiators have lost much of their bargaining powers and industry participants have less and less say in how their industries should be operated. Also, while I agree you that market forces do not always choose the path that is best for everyone, consumer choice can be a powerful balancing weapons to keep those market forces on the right path. As a side note, both Ford and Chrysler began offering seat-belts in 1956 as a result of pressure from several industry groups, including the SAE and AMA. This was 5 years prior to the first seat-belt law (WI NY in 1961). And I know my family (and I'll bet your's too) didn't wear the seat belts in our cars until the late 1980's. Does this prove how ineffectual government safety regulations can be? You be the judge. Thanks, Earl Kinsley [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- That government is best which governs least. -- Thomas Paine -- Check out my latest blogs at http://KinsleyForPrez08.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: John E Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] oil price gouging poll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Government meddling in a free-market economy is never a good thing. a) Well, removing the billions in corporate welfare the petroleum industry gets from the government might be a good place to start. Why ExxonMobil needs my tax dollars to fund RD when they had $25 billion dollars in profits last year, I don't really know. b) I disagree with your contention that the the government doesn't have a place in the market. First of all, laize-fair capitalism was rejected by the American people over a hundred years ago. We have labor laws and worker safety standards for a reason - a pure free market sucks for almost everybody except those at the very top/ Second, market forces will *not* always result in choices that are best for society as a whole. Without governmental regulations, we'd still be driving seatbelt-less, no-crumple zone cars powered with leaded gasoline. Free market ideologues always seem to ignore this little detail. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives
Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 1981 505 S TD Mechanical info please
Don't know if the whole list would, but I would. I'm not a Peugeot fan (I'd only seen them in Africa, so I didn't know they existed in the US till you found one), but I'm a fan of any old diesels -- because they can be run on biodiesel, of course. Zeke Apparently I stirred up some interest with my posts to this group and the Peugeot-L group. Are there any Peugeot fans here who would like to see all of the great information in this afternoon? I am now one step closer to being a biodiesel man. And to think Keith called me scatterbrained. Sincerely, Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: thanks for your prompt replay and valuable information. I am having a rough time in trying to transesterify tallow using ethanol and KOH, could you be kind enough and make me any process suggestions?. Ihave tryed: a tallow with ony 2.5% of FFA; 50ºC; 1% KOH; molar fraction basis , ethanol: tallow 6:1, up to 12 hours and obtained practically zero reaction ( none visible separation of glycerol out of gluk). Weird, dont you think?. Yours truly, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Mr. Burgos, Animal fat was a natural first choice as we produce a fair amount of beef here in Uruguay.From my reading on the JTF site, I found that it was a viable candidate and there are several papers available there for using it. It made sense from a chemical standpoint as fat is essentially all saturated hydrocarbon. With only single bonded carbons I knew that polymerization at temperature is not likely. I tried about 10 or 15 small batches and never had a single bad batch with methoxide as a cataylst. Then I shifted to ethoxide andhad a few successes and many failures. I shifted back to methoxide to check if my technique had gone bad. It hadn't.Istill got very good separation of glycerine and all washed batches passed density, wash, chemical, and motor testing. I'm currently working on waste vegetable oil which is extraordinarily variable here. Titration testing is a must do task with each new supplier and sometimes with each batch from each supplier but I get the material for free. For me this is methoxide only territory but I'm still very curious as to why I hadmostly failure butsome success with ethoxide. I probably go back to it once I'm producing enough for my home and farm needs. Tom Irwin From: francisco j burgos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:14:40 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: Did you find by your own experience that tallow is a good raw material for producing biodiesel? or there is any bibliography that you can indicate me on the subject?. Your help will be the most appreciated, thanks in advance. Cordially, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Juan, I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable oil is usually available from restaurants. It'squite variable and more difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get itfor just your transport costs. If you live in apoorer area then look for wild castor beans. They'rehave large yields and are generally free for the picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather well fora garden or farmsoil amendment. It takes a stronger stomach than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites. Tom Irwin From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BDFree is the best oil to use ;-)Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat?I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanksJuan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
A pH meter using a Ti-83? I never heard of such a thing, not surprising, I'll need to look into that. I've got a TI-83 Plus collecting dust at the moment. Time to Google I guess. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale Holy cow! I asked for it and I received a doozy. The pH meter the university lent me is a bit of overkill I should think. Tell me what you think. Sitting here on my desk is a Texas Instruments TI-83 Plus Silver edition. I already figured out to turn it on and off, pretty good, hey! It has a manual on CD five firewire ports and a fancy probe sitting in its own bath. AM I in for it with this thing? I mean, I want to do a good titration but really??? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: thanks for your prompt replay and valuable information. I am having a rough time in trying to transesterify tallow using ethanol and KOH, could you be kind enough and make me any process suggestions?. I have tryed: a tallow with ony 2.5% of FFA; 50ºC; 1% KOH; molar fraction basis , ethanol: tallow 6:1, up to 12 hours and obtained practically zero reaction ( none visible separation of glycerol out of gluk). Weird, dont you think?. Yours truly, Mr. F.J. Burgos Not very weird. It's the ethanol that's causing the problems more than the tallow, tallow isn't a problem. With ethanol FFA levels have to be low, less than 1 ml 0.01% NaOH solution titration, and no water content in anything. You probably will not achieve a reliable process without using some methanol at least with the ethanol (which must be absolute). I think ethanol:tallow 6:1 on a molar basis isn't nearly enough. Best wishes Keith - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Tom Irwin To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Mr. Burgos, Animal fat was a natural first choice as we produce a fair amount of beef here in Uruguay. From my reading on the JTF site, I found that it was a viable candidate and there are several papers available there for using it. It made sense from a chemical standpoint as fat is essentially all saturated hydrocarbon. With only single bonded carbons I knew that polymerization at temperature is not likely. I tried about 10 or 15 small batches and never had a single bad batch with methoxide as a cataylst. Then I shifted to ethoxide and had a few successes and many failures. I shifted back to methoxide to check if my technique had gone bad. It hadn't. I still got very good separation of glycerine and all washed batches passed density, wash, chemical, and motor testing. I'm currently working on waste vegetable oil which is extraordinarily variable here. Titration testing is a must do task with each new supplier and sometimes with each batch from each supplier but I get the material for free. For me this is methoxide only territory but I'm still very curious as to why I had mostly failure but some success with ethoxide. I probably go back to it once I'm producing enough for my home and farm needs. Tom Irwin From: francisco j burgos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:14:40 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: Did you find by your own experience that tallow is a good raw material for producing biodiesel? or there is any bibliography that you can indicate me on the subject?. Your help will be the most appreciated, thanks in advance. Cordially, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Tom Irwin To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Juan, I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable oil is usually available from restaurants. It's quite variable and more difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get it for just your transport costs. If you live in a poorer area then look for wild castor beans. They're have large yields and are generally free for the picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather well for a garden or farm soil amendment. It takes a stronger stomach than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites. Tom Irwin From: Mike Weaver [mailto:javascript:kh6k0(new,[EMAIL PROTECTED])[EMAIL PROTECTED] .net] To: javascript:kh6k0(new,Biofuel@sustainablelists.org)[EMAIL PROTECTED] nablelists.org Sent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Free is the best oil to use ;-) Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat? I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanks Juan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol from cabbage
I have been trying to find out what is best used for fermenting cabbage for ethanol production. Not much out there on the web. Anyone have a suggestion? The only thing I've found so far is for producing sauerkraut and ethanol production is minimal using those enzymes. Why cabbage? Because there are 40 acres of cabbage in front of and to the south of my house. About half the cabbage is actually picked for market due to size etc. and the rest rots in the field over the winter. If ethanol can be produced from what's left then so much the better. Thanks. Regards; John It's not a starch or a sugar crop, but it might depend on the quality of the cabbage. Brix readings for cabbage range from 6% sugar for a poor-quality cabbage (but it might be much less) to 12% for an excellent one, which is rare. You could try juicing the cabbages and fermenting the juice. In which case this might help: The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html Chapter 6 PROCESSING STEPS SPECIFIC TO SACCHARINE MATERIALS General Description Extraction Chapter 10 INDIVIDUAL RAW MATERIALS Sugar/Starch Content vs Alcohol Saccharine Materials Fruits Molasses Cane Sorghum Sugar Beets Sugar Corn Wastes Otherwise you could feed them to chickens or something and feed the chicken manure to a biodigester. HTH, best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Novice questions on BD process
Hi Stephen Hi All, I have been reading about BD for a long time, but finally got my feet wet a couple of days ago. Never mind, biodiesel's good for the toenails. :-) Welcome! I did get some production and it at least sort of passed the wash test. I have several questions if someone can help.I am using KOH. Does it carbonate like NaOH? It has been siting for al least a yr, supposedly in a sealed container, but is there any way to check and see if it has deteriorated. Probably not. We buy about a year's supply at a time, no problem if you look after it well, and it gets humid here, still no problem. There's a photograph here of carbonated lye, it's KOH, same as NaOH. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye Make your own biodiesel - page 2: More about lye Is the methoxide stable enough to store for awhile in a sealed container? Once mixed, methoxide won't last forever, but it's good for a few weeks. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#stockmeth Make your own biodiesel - page 2: Stock methoxide solution The universal processing temp seems to be 55 degrees C. Is that for saftey/handling reasons, best processing temp or what? If you go much higher than that you'll need a sealed reactor that can take a bit of pressure. Methanol boils at 64.7 deg C, 148.5 deg F. At more than about 55 deg C it will vaporise too much. At 55 deg C in an ordinary closed reactor with a sealed lid you can contain it or recycle it or vent it (most of it condenses under the lid and drops back in). When I made my little test batches,I used the blender method. I heated the oil to 55 degrees to start, but after I had processed it for 20 minutes, it was about 35 degrees C. Will that still work okay? It should be okay. The wash-test should tell you that. If not, extend the processing time if it's easier than maintaining the temperature. For quality testing, the methanol test states that impurities will not disolve in th methanol. Are they FFA, unprocessed glycerides or?? Glycerides. Best wishes, good luck! Keith I am looking forward to getting out of the novice stage, and gearing up to real production. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Stephen ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Thanks everyone for the replies. Yes it is a Ti-83 with a Vernier LabPro attachment. This is only the second time I have had it out of the box so I still know little about how to use it. Today I have two other projects I need to do while daylight is burning. First I have harvested two dozen beautiful cedar posts from our forest. In an attempt to get our ranch more sustainable I will be making more products from our main resource, trees. I have been using an old timey draw knife to debark the cedar posts. This is unheard of around here, most of the ranchers now use steel posts. Steel posts are imported to this part of the US and for all I know they all come from China. The heck with that. Back when the ranchers did use wooden posts here in the southwest unpeeled cedar posts were employed. Cedar is a great wood for posts as it has lasting qualities not found in other wood found locally. We have found that the wood borers like to get under the bark and begin to deteriorate the wood quickly, Thus cedar lasts about ten tears in the ground. Anyway, we have been peeling the posts which is tough because our cedar is quite bracnhy. I worked out a rig for holding the posts while I use the small chainsaw to smooth the sides. The drawknife then slips through the bark fairly easily. The second part of my project today is tied nicely to the first, I worked out a trade with a local organic gardener in posts for garlic for planting. He has fantastic growth of garlic during the last five years and he lives up in the mountains just like us. Boy howdy, I guaranty you haven't tasted garlic this hot and spicy. So, we are totally inspired to expand our garden next Spring to include a large patch of garlic. Planting time for garlic is now, he says. He has invited me to come to his place this afternoon and learn. I will bring the posts which he needs to build a deer proof fence as a second line of defense from the deer, on the way back we will stop be the local purebred horse ranch where they give away manure which has no hay or weed seed because they have rubber mats in the stalls for the fancy horses. It is our plan to mix the manure with wood chips from our forest and begin a large scale compost pile for next Spring. Yep I am going to be a regular farmer not just a tree farmer! How scatterbrained is this? Sorry Keith. Just teasing. This evening I will break out the book for the TI-83 and see how to use it. In the kit there are several probes, the one I am interested i is a pH sensor p# PH-BTA. Now that I look at this manual it has about fifty sensors available, starting with a 3-axis Accelerometer...Radiation monitor... Magnetic field sensor... Light sensor.. O2 Gas sensor, pretty much a you name it, they got it. Sincerely, Brian Rodgers On 10/21/05, David Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A pH meter using a Ti-83? I never heard of such a thing, not surprising, I'll need to look into that. I've got a TI-83 Plus collecting dust at the moment. Time to Google I guess. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale Holy cow! I asked for it and I received a doozy. The pH meter the university lent me is a bit of overkill I should think. Tell me what you think. Sitting here on my desk is a Texas Instruments TI-83 Plus Silver edition. I already figured out to turn it on and off, pretty good, hey! It has a manual on CD five firewire ports and a fancy probe sitting in its own bath. AM I in for it with this thing? I mean, I want to do a good titration but really??? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 1981 505 S TD Mechanical info please
Here is one: Hi, Brian- I am not much of a mechanic. That disclaimer being issued, let me say this- White exhaust smoke can be and often is a symptom of a blown head gasket. White smoke can also be symptomatic of oil burning. White smoke from a blown head gasket is actually steam produced from coolant entering the combustion chamber(s). When you fired the Peugot up the first time, I put my hand in the white exhaust stream. It did not feel particularly humid, which it would if the white were due to billows of steam being produced. As I recall, the pungent stink of burning anti-freeze, which would be present if coolant was exiting the exhaust, was also missing. Moreover, in my limited experience, the white smoke from a blown head gasket does not go away when the engine warms up. Are there alternate hypotheses which would account for ballooning coolant hoses and white smoke on start-up? I can think of at least one, and I am no diesel guru. From what I recall of your coolant system, there was some conspicuously bass-ackwards backyard mechanicking done. E.G, The thermostat housing was entirely absent and the thermostat was jimmied into one of the coolant lines with hose clamps. So, it is at least possible that the hoses are ballooning because the coolant flow is obstructed either by crud deposits or by misadventures of improvised repair. If this were the case, I would look to the white smoke as being non-combusted fuel or possibly oil burning on start-up, unrelated to the coolant issue. Diesels often generate white smoke on start-up due to non-combusted fuel. Diesels, particularly those run on dino-diesel, are also prone to building up carbon deposits which can in turn cause low compression and even oil-burning due to loss of ring seal. Either of these could be your problem with the white smoke. If the problem is carbon build-up, it can often be addressed by running a can or two of diesel-purge directly through the injectors (not added to the gas tank) and driving the beast pedal-to-the-metal for a few thousand miles. See here- http://www.peemac.sdnpk.org/resource/fert/tips5.html and here http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/idi2.htm For info on diesels indicating that white smoke on start-up is most often caused by non-combusted fuel, low compression, etc. Not trying to be a know-it-all or tell you what to do, you are after all much more experienced with auto repair than am I. I have learned though, the hard way, that the road to simplicity and bliss in such matters lies in eliminating the easy stuff first. So maybe a prudent first step would be to restore the coolant system to its proper state, replacing the thermostat housing, checking the thermostat, flushing the system, checking how the lines are routed and replacing them as appropriate. You would need to do this at some point anyway. If this takes care of the coolant issue, then you will have saved yourself many hours of unnecessary aggravation. Regards, Lee ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
Hello Mr. Burgos, I agree with Keith. It's the ethanol. Try a small batch with methanol at 20% of your oil volume and add 6.5 to 7 g per liter ofKOH. You shouldget separation of glycerine with only an hour or so of heating at 50 C. and 12 hours of settling. In most cases I can see the glycerine begin to separate out after an hour of settling. Tom Irwin From: francisco j burgos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:35:37 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: thanks for your prompt replay and valuable information. I am having a rough time in trying to transesterify tallow using ethanol and KOH, could you be kind enough and make me any process suggestions?. Ihave tryed: a tallow with ony 2.5% of FFA; 50ºC; 1% KOH; molar fraction basis , ethanol: tallow 6:1, up to 12 hours and obtained practically zero reaction ( none visible separation of glycerol out of gluk). Weird, dont you think?. Yours truly, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Mr. Burgos, Animal fat was a natural first choice as we produce a fair amount of beef here in Uruguay.From my reading on the JTF site, I found that it was a viable candidate and there are several papers available there for using it. It made sense from a chemical standpoint as fat is essentially all saturated hydrocarbon. With only single bonded carbons I knew that polymerization at temperature is not likely. I tried about 10 or 15 small batches and never had a single bad batch with methoxide as a cataylst. Then I shifted to ethoxide andhad a few successes and many failures. I shifted back to methoxide to check if my technique had gone bad. It hadn't.Istill got very good separation of glycerine and all washed batches passed density, wash, chemical, and motor testing. I'm currently working on waste vegetable oil which is extraordinarily variable here. Titration testing is a must do task with each new supplier and sometimes with each batch from each supplier but I get the material for free. For me this is methoxide only territory but I'm still very curious as to why I hadmostly failure butsome success with ethoxide. I probably go back to it once I'm producing enough for my home and farm needs. Tom Irwin From: francisco j burgos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:14:40 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Dear Mr. Tom Irwin: Did you find by your own experience that tallow is a good raw material for producing biodiesel? or there is any bibliography that you can indicate me on the subject?. Your help will be the most appreciated, thanks in advance. Cordially, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD Hello Juan, I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable oil is usually available from restaurants. It'squite variable and more difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get itfor just your transport costs. If you live in apoorer area then look for wild castor beans. They'rehave large yields and are generally free for the picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather well fora garden or farmsoil amendment. It takes a stronger stomach than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites. Tom Irwin From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BDFree is the best oil to use ;-)Juan B wrote: Hello Everyone, I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal fat?I looked at the tables in the website but I did not completely understand . thanksJuan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing
Re: [Biofuel] Starting at Square One
From the picture the engine looks the same, but could be the same design and smaller displacement I suppose.The non-workingtemperature guage is concerning, because overheating a diesel with analuminum head and cast iron block usually means putting a new headgasket in it -- as least in the VW diesels.But that's pretty easy to add a new temperature guage.Zeke Yeah, if I do end up getting it, I have a whole suite of gauges and meters that are going in it. Head temp, Oil temp, Voltmeter, Ammeter (Iffy about putting this one in, unnecessary work.), stuff of that nature; I've been scrounging up meters for a while now. If it doesn't have a tach I'll see what I can do to pick a tasteful one up, instead of those gaudy racer style tachos. Still flirting with the idea, guess I should my act together and make a decision, eh? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
I found some sites selling the individual Vernier probes and sensors. They are more than I expected them to be ($79 - pH Meter probe) but you can get free software. Educational products have always been unreasonably overpriced as far a I can tell. Competition must be next to nil in the field. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 12:28 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale Thanks everyone for the replies. Yes it is a Ti-83 with a Vernier LabPro attachment. This is only the second time I have had it out of the box so I still know little about how to use it. Today I have two other projects I need to do while daylight is burning. First I have harvested two dozen beautiful cedar posts from our forest. In an attempt to get our ranch more sustainable I will be making more products from our main resource, trees. I have been using an old timey draw knife to debark the cedar posts. This is unheard of around here, most of the ranchers now use steel posts. Steel posts are imported to this part of the US and for all I know they all come from China. The heck with that. Back when the ranchers did use wooden posts here in the southwest unpeeled cedar posts were employed. Cedar is a great wood for posts as it has lasting qualities not found in other wood found locally. We have found that the wood borers like to get under the bark and begin to deteriorate the wood quickly, Thus cedar lasts about ten tears in the ground. Anyway, we have been peeling the posts which is tough because our cedar is quite bracnhy. I worked out a rig for holding the posts while I use the small chainsaw to smooth the sides. The drawknife then slips through the bark fairly easily. The second part of my project today is tied nicely to the first, I worked out a trade with a local organic gardener in posts for garlic for planting. He has fantastic growth of garlic during the last five years and he lives up in the mountains just like us. Boy howdy, I guaranty you haven't tasted garlic this hot and spicy. So, we are totally inspired to expand our garden next Spring to include a large patch of garlic. Planting time for garlic is now, he says. He has invited me to come to his place this afternoon and learn. I will bring the posts which he needs to build a deer proof fence as a second line of defense from the deer, on the way back we will stop be the local purebred horse ranch where they give away manure which has no hay or weed seed because they have rubber mats in the stalls for the fancy horses. It is our plan to mix the manure with wood chips from our forest and begin a large scale compost pile for next Spring. Yep I am going to be a regular farmer not just a tree farmer! How scatterbrained is this? Sorry Keith. Just teasing. This evening I will break out the book for the TI-83 and see how to use it. In the kit there are several probes, the one I am interested i is a pH sensor p# PH-BTA. Now that I look at this manual it has about fifty sensors available, starting with a 3-axis Accelerometer...Radiation monitor... Magnetic field sensor... Light sensor.. O2 Gas sensor, pretty much a you name it, they got it. Sincerely, Brian Rodgers On 10/21/05, David Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A pH meter using a Ti-83? I never heard of such a thing, not surprising, I'll need to look into that. I've got a TI-83 Plus collecting dust at the moment. Time to Google I guess. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale Holy cow! I asked for it and I received a doozy. The pH meter the university lent me is a bit of overkill I should think. Tell me what you think. Sitting here on my desk is a Texas Instruments TI-83 Plus Silver edition. I already figured out to turn it on and off, pretty good, hey! It has a manual on CD five firewire ports and a fancy probe sitting in its own bath. AM I in for it with this thing? I mean, I want to do a good titration but really??? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists. or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists. org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives
