date:20040120

Dan Chisarick wrote:

At the hight of my media conversion insanity, I had everything on a 
4-port KVM. Now all the old machines are on their own network. I used a 
P-90 running Windows 98 w/a 5.25" Gateway drive that I sold and later 
asked for it back (they weren't using it). I also have a CPS Option 
Board, but not an ancient machine w/360k drives to make it happy. There 
was an upgrade for 1.2MB drives I think. Jim?
Later software upgrades supported 1.2MB disks, but not copy-protection. 
Meaning, very simple oddities like less/more tracks per sector, or odd sector 
sizes, were copyable -- but something wacko like missing indexes or goofy-long 
GAP sequences were not.  It was added primarily to address the requests of 
customers who wanted to dupe 1.2MB floppies in one pass, without swapping, and 
at 2x or faster speeds (the Central Point Option Board writes and verifies 
disks at least twice as fast as a regular floppy controller).  I believe any 
TransCopy version 5.x will do this (use the "TCM" binary, not the "TC" binary).

As an aside, I use Disk Factory to image my PC games. Doesn't seem to 
like newer, faster machines or Windows XP. Anyone have a preferred PC 
archive tool that actually works w/modern hardware? (I remember talking 
about my Apple imaging tools, but not PC...)
I use only Option Boards for protected disks.  While I use different versions 
for different protections when DUPLICATING disks, I use only TransCopy v5.4 
images for ARCHIVAL.  This is because 5.4, while "dumbed down" to not copy as 
many formats as earlier versions, is the most stable.  (BTW, word of warning, 
each TransCopy version will only read image files created by that version.)
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

Howard Feldman wrote:

So I can still use it as a 5.25" drive, or a 3.5" drive, just not both 
at the same time.  I must open the computer and switch jumpers to get it 
to work!  So in summary, watch out before buying Asus Motherboards!!! 
(Can anyone list decent contemporary M/B manufacturers whose BIOS DO 
support 2 floppy drives??  Gigabyte?  Abit?  Intel?)
Most still do, I think.  I just bought an EPoX 8KRA2+, Athlon XP 2500+ CPU, 
and 512 MB Kingston RAM for $250 and that combo supports two drives.  Frankly 
I was surprised to hear that it wasn't an option -- it's like, what, 4 bytes 
in the interrupt table?

(The EPoX is running beautifully, BTW.  I've had 0 compatibility issues, which 
was why I upgraded.  I previous had an old KT133-based board, back when the 
Athlon 1GHz came out 3.5 years ago, and I never once got all my hardware 
working at the same time.)
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

Edward Franks wrote:

Who needs mo'slo when you can play 
Ultima 2 in all its CGA glory?  ;-)
You know, this brings up something that I've always maintained:  No matter how 
convenient an emulator is, or how much it enhances or speeds up a game (ie 
making the game more 'snappy' because there are no floppy accesses), I still 
feel that nothing beats the total "old gaming experience" than on an old PC. 
The games are old; they were written for old hardware; they should be 
experienced there at least once.

Seriously:  One week every two years, I drag out the old IBM 5150 (or PCjr) 
and play an old game from start to finish.  I try to do so in a medium-lit 
room (not too bright), in a quiet environment, preferably a basement ;) with 
all original hardware (no clone monitors or keyboards) and a six-pack of 
Pepsi.  You can really lose yourself in the game's story and mechanics (which 
is completely intentional because you surely didn't do it via sound and 
graphics).  It is in your own head that the best pictures are drawn.

Or am I the only one who executed a round of attacks in an RPG and sat with 
baited breath while the disk drive paused, whirred, taunting me with the 
result until finally the results were printed?

Sorry to get all nostalgic like that.  Time to snap back into reality and pay 
the bills...
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/

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Re: [SWCollect] "Modern" classics

Marco Thorek wrote:

True. It's only that once upon a time the profit didn't matter as much.
Yes, but the market was completely different then.  There's an interview with 
Ken Williams on the Roberta Williams collection where he says something to the 
effect of "In the old days, we all went on picnics and canoe trips together. 
But today, [1995] it's considered a smash success if you have 1% market 
share."  My point is that up to 1985, most games sold well because the market 
was open.  1985-1993 saw things get crowded, and after that it all went downhill.

You could singlehandedly or in a duo write a game and find a publisher
easy enough, even if your game was totally obscure. Nowadays profit is
the prime directive and who knows better about profits than the suits?
Pretty much.  The only way to make money on games nowadays is to have a 
runaway shareware hit, and I haven't seen one in a while.  Roller Coaster 
Tycoon is probably the last "one man wonder" game we will see in our lifetimes 
that makes a profit.

Those managers sure know a thing about finances, but apparently not much
about how the creative side of this industry works. For example, whoever
adviced EA to ship games in DVD cases immediately cut down production
costs, but failed to realize it'll lower the number of units sold, as
there won't be much left that distinguishes a bought game from a warez
version.
That is only true in your country.  Here in the US they still ship in boxes 
(small boxes, but they're still boxes :)

Boyzone, Westlife, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync et. al., and no real talent
in the charts for some time. Imagine Meat Loaf trying to get a record
contract these days.
I'm not a Meatloaf fan so that was a bad example :) but I understand completely.

There are a *few* sequels, maybe 5 a year, that are indeed worth playing.  I
just recently finished Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando, and it was a
surprisingly deep game with a lot of replay value.  But that is the exception.
True again. What also irks me as a PC gamer these days is that we are
mostly given gruesome console ports. Most recent example there being
"Deux Ex: Invisible War." The game may be perfect for the Xbox and its
audience, on the PC the graphics, the simplified story and character
generation, the idiotic UI and the lack of any depth is horrifying.
Don't say that!  I was so looking forward to playing the sequel after having 
finished the original twice...
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

2004-01-20 Thread Dan Chisarick

Ok, someone who collects classic games and they're surprised by a 5.25" disk? They got the "shame on me" part right, but have no right being upset at you, and doubly so for not talking to you first.

At the hight of my media conversion insanity, I had everything on a 4-port KVM. Now all the old machines are on their own network. I used a P-90 running Windows 98 w/a 5.25" Gateway drive that I sold and later asked for it back (they weren't using it). I also have a CPS Option Board, but not an ancient machine w/360k drives to make it happy. There was an upgrade for 1.2MB drives I think. Jim?

As an aside, I use Disk Factory to image my PC games. Doesn't seem to like newer, faster machines or Windows XP. Anyone have a preferred PC archive tool that actually works w/modern hardware? (I remember talking about my Apple imaging tools, but not PC...)

On Jan 20, 2004, at 7:51 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In a message dated 01/20/2004 12:27:35 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I got no response. Did I do something wrong here? More generally, what is
the opinion of the people on this list regarding a game that came in two
versions: one on 5.25 inch disks and one on 3.5 inch disks? Are the 3.5 inch
disks more valuable?

Yeah seems 3.5s are a lot more in demand but you did nothing wrong here, they should have asked first or at least contacted you later if they were unhappy.

Tom
Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash, Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page

Re: [SWCollect] "Modern" classics

2004-01-20 Thread Dan Chisarick

The fortunate upside is that the Internet  makes self-publication a 
possibility.  I'm not sure how many people can make a living selling 
games online, but I imagine Malinche does OK for itself.  Every now and 
then someone tries remaking a classic, but with a little 
'modernization' that makes it all but unrecognizable from the original. 
 It probably doesn't sell and they go back to the template that makes 
bucks, just like most movies.

Actually I take that back.  Garage games has a pretty good model.  $100 
for the source for a 3D engine, and I believe they'll help you market 
your finished title for a percentage.  Anyway, with a fairly low 
barrier to entry (free code, tools, cheap hardware and excessive 
documentation) compared to days gone by, small operations probably have 
a better chance now than before, despite the staggering cost of making 
a 'modern' game.

As for Deus Ex: Invisible War, I loved the first one.  Please don't 
tell me they console-ized the sequel.  I suspect that Thief III, if it 
comes out, may suffer the same fate.

On Jan 20, 2004, at 8:21 PM, Marco Thorek wrote:

Jim Leonard schrieb:
It's not the calculators:  It's what makes money.  You shouldn't be 
scared
that accountants and suits are ruining the industry; instead, you 
should be
scared that the core sales of most computer and console gaming are 
the way
they are.  It is a hard pill to swallow that adventure games simply 
don't sell
enough units to make a profit.
True. It's only that once upon a time the profit didn't matter as much.
You could singlehandedly or in a duo write a game and find a publisher
easy enough, even if your game was totally obscure. Nowadays profit is
the prime directive and who knows better about profits than the suits?
Those managers sure know a thing about finances, but apparently not 
much
about how the creative side of this industry works. For example, 
whoever
adviced EA to ship games in DVD cases immediately cut down production
costs, but failed to realize it'll lower the number of units sold, as
there won't be much left that distinguishes a bought game from a warez
version.

It is the same as with the music industry: Some managers found that
instead of expensive talent scouting and sponsoring bands that might
fail, they should simply manufacture boy- and girlgroups, who
specifically cater to the target audience that spends the most money on
its idols and music: teenagers. Now the music industry blames P2P for
the slump in music sales, instead of realizing we had one too many
Boyzone, Westlife, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync et. al., and no real talent
in the charts for some time. Imagine Meat Loaf trying to get a record
contract these days.
There are a *few* sequels, maybe 5 a year, that are indeed worth 
playing.  I
just recently finished Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando, and it was a
surprisingly deep game with a lot of replay value.  But that is the 
exception.
True again. What also irks me as a PC gamer these days is that we are
mostly given gruesome console ports. Most recent example there being
"Deux Ex: Invisible War." The game may be perfect for the Xbox and its
audience, on the PC the graphics, the simplified story and character
generation, the idiotic UI and the lack of any depth is horrifying.
Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] "Modern" classics

2004-01-20 Thread Marco Thorek

Jim Leonard schrieb:
> 
> It's not the calculators:  It's what makes money.  You shouldn't be scared
> that accountants and suits are ruining the industry; instead, you should be
> scared that the core sales of most computer and console gaming are the way
> they are.  It is a hard pill to swallow that adventure games simply don't sell
> enough units to make a profit.

True. It's only that once upon a time the profit didn't matter as much.
You could singlehandedly or in a duo write a game and find a publisher
easy enough, even if your game was totally obscure. Nowadays profit is
the prime directive and who knows better about profits than the suits?

Those managers sure know a thing about finances, but apparently not much
about how the creative side of this industry works. For example, whoever
adviced EA to ship games in DVD cases immediately cut down production
costs, but failed to realize it'll lower the number of units sold, as
there won't be much left that distinguishes a bought game from a warez
version.

It is the same as with the music industry: Some managers found that
instead of expensive talent scouting and sponsoring bands that might
fail, they should simply manufacture boy- and girlgroups, who
specifically cater to the target audience that spends the most money on
its idols and music: teenagers. Now the music industry blames P2P for
the slump in music sales, instead of realizing we had one too many
Boyzone, Westlife, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync et. al., and no real talent
in the charts for some time. Imagine Meat Loaf trying to get a record
contract these days.
 
> There are a *few* sequels, maybe 5 a year, that are indeed worth playing.  I
> just recently finished Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando, and it was a
> surprisingly deep game with a lot of replay value.  But that is the exception.

True again. What also irks me as a PC gamer these days is that we are
mostly given gruesome console ports. Most recent example there being
"Deux Ex: Invisible War." The game may be perfect for the Xbox and its
audience, on the PC the graphics, the simplified story and character
generation, the idiotic UI and the lack of any depth is horrifying.

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] ZorkQuest #2

2004-01-20 Thread Marco Thorek

Edward Franks schrieb:
> 
> Shhh!  I was hoping to keep that one secret!  ;-)  (Like that's going
> to happen with this group of eagle-eyed collectors...)

Hell yeah, already saw Stuart's auction days ago and kept an eye on it
to see for how much it'll go ;-)

BTW, there sure is a flurry of ZQ2s right now. 

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

2004-01-20 Thread AvatarTom

In a message dated 01/20/2004 12:27:35 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I got no response. Did I do something wrong here? More generally, what is
the opinion of the people on this list regarding a game that came in two
versions: one on 5.25 inch disks and one on 3.5 inch disks? Are the 3.5 inch
disks more valuable?


Yeah seems 3.5s are a lot more in demand but you did nothing wrong here, they should have asked first or at least contacted you later if they were unhappy.

Tom
Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash,  Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page

Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

2004-01-20 Thread Marco Thorek

Edward Franks schrieb:
> 
> It is going to get even worse.  My current motherboard doesn't even
> support a B: drive!  As I need the 3.5 inch drive as my A: drive this
> means I'll need to keep an older PC around just to deal with 5.25
> floppies.  But how many people have room or even want an older PC
> around just for a few odd games?

Future motherboards won't even support a disk drive at all.

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

On Jan 20, 2004, at 3:35 PM, Jim Leonard wrote:

Edward Franks wrote:
It is going to get even worse.  My current motherboard doesn't 
even support a B: drive!
What motherboard?
	Asus P4C800 Deluxe.  When I updated my PC this summer I went for one 
of the 800 MHz front side bus motherboards.  Normally Asus has been 
very stable for me, but I bought a bit too early.  After a few BIOS 
updates and one small BIOS tweak, I got my stability back.

Do you really?  While I get nervous thinking about not having a floppy 
drive in my machine, it is entirely possible not to have one.  CD-RWs 
are rewritable, and bootable on any motherboard made past 1998.
	Not really, but it is convenient.  I don't miss the floppy drive on my 
Powerbook so I know I don't need one.  Two or three years down the road 
I'm not going to have one in my PC.  I figure by then I'll buiold some 
nice quiet, small form factor box for my gaming needs.

	I have backups of all my important stuff on high quality CD-Rs, so I'm 
pretty safe there.  I'm also a sucker for CD-ROM compilations for ease 
of installation.

As for having older machines around, I feel it comes with the 
territory.  I have an old 286 with a 3.5" high density A: and a 5.25" 
low-density B: that I use solely for backing up my open-box 
copy-protected games with a Central Point Option Board.  It is slim 
and takes up no more space than, say, six games lying flat in two 
columns of three games each.  It has VGA so I don't need an extra 
monitor for it, just an AT/XT keyboard adapter.
	I agree.  I've got a pair of Epson 1.2MB floppy drives (installed and 
a spare) for my retro gaming PC.  If I was in dire need I could always 
use my model 5150 IBM PC.  Who needs mo'slo when you can play Ultima 2 
in all its CGA glory?  ;-)

--

Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

2004-01-20 Thread Howard Feldman

Myself, I've still got a handy Teac 'combo' 3.5/5.25 drive which I 
picked up maybe 5 years ago for about $50.  It worked great and only 
needed a floppy cable with a single connector, and even supports 
swapping drive A and B with jumpers (if the BIOS doesnt allow this).  So 
you can imagine how pissed I was when I discovered that Asus M/B BIOSes 
no longer support a B drive!!!  Is that ridiculous or what?  I mean how 
much extra work would it be for them to support an extra floppy?  Or 
maybe it was wasting 100 bytes of BIOS memory that they needed for 
something useless like APM??

So I can still use it as a 5.25" drive, or a 3.5" drive, just not both 
at the same time.  I must open the computer and switch jumpers to get it 
to work!  So in summary, watch out before buying Asus Motherboards!!! 
(Can anyone list decent contemporary M/B manufacturers whose BIOS DO 
support 2 floppy drives??  Gigabyte?  Abit?  Intel?)

Edward Franks wrote:

It is going to get even worse.  My current motherboard doesn't even 
support a B: drive!  As I need the 3.5 inch drive as my A: drive this 
means I'll need to keep an older PC around just to deal with 5.25 
floppies.  But how many people have room or even want an older PC around 
just for a few odd games?

--

Howard Feldman
Author of the Search for Freedom Computer Role-Playing Game
Visit its homepage at:  http://deep.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman
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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

On Jan 20, 2004, at 2:48 PM, Lee K. Seitz wrote:
[Snip]
On this list or in the general population? 8)  I think you'll find
most of this list has some older hardware tucked away for just such
occasions.
	I was mainly thinking of the average gamer.  For people like us I take 
it as a given we have multiple machines.

However, you have me wondering now if my current computer supports a
B: drive.  I wanted to move my 5.25"/3.5" combo drive (footnote) to
my new computer, but both 5.25" bays are filled (one CD-R, one
DVD-ROM), so I never tried it.
	I've got one of those Gateway combo drives.  I never could get it to 
work after I got rid of my P5-90 (o, Pentium power).

I'm curious, though.  How many people here with older hardware keep it
set up all the time, network it with their current systems, and/or use
KVM switches to reduce the clutter?
	I keep a platinum Apple //e setup all the time.  I also have my main 
gaming PC and my retro gaming PC (DOS 6.22/Win98SE dual boot, 3dfx 
Voodoo2 with a whopping 12 MB RAM :-D) on a KVM switch.  Both are 
networked to make it easier to transfer files or snag the MS security 
update de jour.

--

Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

Lee K. Seitz wrote:
I'm curious, though.  How many people here with older hardware keep it
set up all the time, network it with their current systems, and/or use
KVM switches to reduce the clutter?
I have a "worktable" that I use for building/repairing stuff, and that's 
where the 286 sits along with a cheap ($10) old VGA monitor and keyboard 
for backing up games.  I tried the KVM thing but it quickly became 
unfeasible when I needed to hook up machines with proprietary connectors 
(Tandy, PCjr, AT&T PC clones, CGA, etc.)

Footnote: I was probably one of the last people to actually order one
of these drives from Gateway.  I know they didn't offer them any more
when I was shopping for a replacement computer a few years later.
I recently built a new machine and attempted to get an old dual drive 
like this working but couldn't :-(  Light was constantly on, like the 
cable was bad.  I'll try again.
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

Per-Olof Karlsson wrote:
I recently built a new machine and attempted to get an old dual drive 
like this working but couldn't :-(  Light was constantly on, like the 
cable was bad.  I'll try again.


That does sound like a bad cable, or even a good cable turned 180 degrees.
Bad cable.  Turned it 180 degrees and same result.  I substituted with 
the cable that came with the motherboard (only had one header on it) and 
that worked, but of course I can't use a single-header cable with a 
dual-unit drive.

Of course, the bad cable may have had something to do with one of the 
holes being intentionally blocked off, whereas my mobo had a pin there. 
 I hollowed out the blocked hole to get it to fit :)
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/

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RE: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

Actually, I realized that I accidentally already gave out enough info to
figure out who I'm talking about. The person is a fairly high profile trader
on gametz, but he deals mostly in CD-ROM games. The game in question was
(don't cringe, C.E.) Leather Goddesses of Phobos 2.

Stuart

-Original Message-
From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:42 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

Lee K. Seitz wrote:
> I would hope anyone interested in vintage games would be knowledgable
> enough about the item(s) they want to know what format(s) it was
> available on and ask if they knew it came on more than one.  It was
> very rude for them to give you negative feedback without e-mailing you
> first.  

Agreed.  If I promise not to look up who the person was, can I ask just 
what title it was that you traded to him?  If it was made at any point 
before 1986, the dude was just clueless to think it came on 3.5...
-- 
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/

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in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment 
banker or advisor to such.  
Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian 
Imperial Bank of Commerce ("CIBC"), 
it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products 
recommended, purchased, or sold in 
any client accounts 
(i) will not be insured by the FDIC, 
(ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, 
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(iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested.

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RE: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

2004-01-20 Thread Per-Olof Karlsson


>I recently built a new machine and attempted to get an old dual drive 
>like this working but couldn't :-(  Light was constantly on, like the 
>cable was bad.  I'll try again.

That does sound like a bad cable, or even a good cable turned 180 degrees.

- Peo


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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

Lee K. Seitz wrote:
I would hope anyone interested in vintage games would be knowledgable
enough about the item(s) they want to know what format(s) it was
available on and ask if they knew it came on more than one.  It was
very rude for them to give you negative feedback without e-mailing you
first.  
Agreed.  If I promise not to look up who the person was, can I ask just 
what title it was that you traded to him?  If it was made at any point 
before 1986, the dude was just clueless to think it came on 3.5...
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

Edward Franks wrote:
It is going to get even worse.  My current motherboard doesn't even 
support a B: drive!  
What motherboard?

> As I need the 3.5 inch drive as my A: drive this

Do you really?  While I get nervous thinking about not having a floppy 
drive in my machine, it is entirely possible not to have one.  CD-RWs 
are rewritable, and bootable on any motherboard made past 1998.

As for having older machines around, I feel it comes with the territory. 
 I have an old 286 with a 3.5" high density A: and a 5.25" low-density 
B: that I use solely for backing up my open-box copy-protected games 
with a Central Point Option Board.  It is slim and takes up no more 
space than, say, six games lying flat in two columns of three games 
each.  It has VGA so I don't need an extra monitor for it, just an AT/XT 
keyboard adapter.
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

Per-Olof Karlsson wrote:
There used to be floppy drives you could connect to the parallel port.. Try
looking for one of these, I'm sure they'll work just fine even today. :)
Not for the copy-protection on older games, they won't...
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/
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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

Feldhamer, Stuart wrote:
"The value of a 5.25 set
is considerably less than 3.5s."
..to HIM, because he only wanted to play the game.  Not to collectors. 
 Read on:

What is
the opinion of the people on this list regarding a game that came in two
versions: one on 5.25 inch disks and one on 3.5 inch disks? Are the 3.5 inch
disks more valuable?
Given *equal distributions of both*, there is NO difference in terms of 
collectability.  If 50,000 units of 3.5" packages and 50,000 units of 
5.25" packages were made during a production run, neither is worth "more".

Now, this isn't to say that some 3.5" versions and/or some 5.25" 
versions (or even CDROM versions) of games aren't rarer than other 
versions.  There are definitely some cases where certain factors, like 
customer demand, manufacturing issues, etc. produced much more of a 
certain version than another, and you could make an argument that such 
cases produce a package that is more rare than the other.  For example:

- The CDROM version of Return to Zork was produced in greater numbers 
than the floppy-disk version, so theoretically the diskette version is 
worth more.

- Although I can't remember specifically which Sierra game it was, one 
of the 5.25" floppy-disk versions of one of Sierra's later SCI games (I 
*think* it was King's Quest V but it might have been LSL3) had the most 
bizarre distinction of having mixed 5.25" media -- both low density and 
high density media were in the package.  Meaning, the start/install disk 
was low density (360K) and the data disks were high density (1.2MB). 
Again, my memory is failing me, but this package is in my collection and 
I'll try to find it to verify (does anyone remember?).  Such an odd 
distribution is worth more than the plain 3.5" distro.

- Some "Tandy" versions of software were slightly altered and 
distributed by Tandy for their mid-to-late Tandy machines (RX/SX and 
TL/RL/SL series) which only had 3.5" drives standard.  These releases 
are the only 3.5" releases and should be considered worth a bit more. 
Arctic Fox is one such example:  Not only is it the only 3.5" release of 
the game, but it is also notable in that it supports an additional 
16-color Tandy mode not present in the regular EA folder release (Tandy 
release is also an EA folder but with a Tandy 1000 sticker on it).

I'm sure others on the list can come up with some additional examples. 
But, to answer your question in a generic sense:  No, there is no major 
difference between 3.5" and 5.25" as to what is "worth" more.
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

2004-01-20 Thread hughfalk

As, poeple have already mentioned, 3.5" may be more useful, but it's obvious that 
5.25" is more "valuable."  Look at the games that sell for the most on eBay (we're 
talking $500 - $2000 range).  They're all 5.25" or cassette.  Ask the guy if he has a 
cassette drive :-).

Hugh

-Original Message-
From: "Feldhamer, Stuart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Jan 20, 2004 1:26 PM
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s


What do you all think of this:

I made a trade with someone on the game trading zone for a particular game.
I won't tell you which one so you won't try to figure out who it was.
Anyway, I described the condition of the game I was sending in some detail.
We made the trade, and then noticed that the person had left me negative
feedback. The comment was something to the effect of "fool me once, shame on
you. fool me twice, shame on me!". I emailed the person the following:

"I just saw your rating of me on the gametz. I didn't realize that you were
unhappy with our trade. What exactly is/was the problem?"

They responded:

"What would I possibly want with 5.25s.  You went into great detail
describing the condition but never informed me that the disks were 5.25s.  I
have nothing to play this game on or to copy it to.  The value of a 5.25 set
is considerably less than 3.5s.

To your credit though I do appreciate your response."

I then responded:

"I certainly was not trying to deceive you, and I disagree with you on your
estimation of the value. If you want to play the game and don't have a 5.25
inch drive I'm sure you know that you can download it off the 'net. If you
had asked I certainly would have told you, but to tell you the truth, the
disk size did not even occur to me. My personal copy also has 5.25 inch
disks, as do many of the other games in my collection. If I only collected
3.5 inch disks and CDs, I would miss out on many great games.
 
That being the case, if you were not satisfied, I don't understand why you
didn't email me and let me know instead of posting a cryptic message to
gametz. Is this the first time you think I've fooled you, or the second?"

I got no response. Did I do something wrong here? More generally, what is
the opinion of the people on this list regarding a game that came in two
versions: one on 5.25 inch disks and one on 3.5 inch disks? Are the 3.5 inch
disks more valuable?

Stuart

Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to 
change without notice. 
It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. 
Details provided do 
not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to 
prior sale. 
CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, 
may have a position 
in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment 
banker or advisor to such.  
Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian 
Imperial Bank of Commerce ("CIBC"), 
it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products 
recommended, purchased, or sold in 
any client accounts 
(i) will not be insured by the FDIC, 
(ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, 
(iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and 
(iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested.

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

2004-01-20 Thread Lee K. Seitz

Edward Franks stated:
>
>   It is going to get even worse.  My current motherboard doesn't even 
>support a B: drive!  As I need the 3.5 inch drive as my A: drive this 
>means I'll need to keep an older PC around just to deal with 5.25 
>floppies.  But how many people have room or even want an older PC 
>around just for a few odd games?

On this list or in the general population? 8)  I think you'll find
most of this list has some older hardware tucked away for just such
occasions.

However, you have me wondering now if my current computer supports a
B: drive.  I wanted to move my 5.25"/3.5" combo drive (footnote) to
my new computer, but both 5.25" bays are filled (one CD-R, one
DVD-ROM), so I never tried it.

I'm curious, though.  How many people here with older hardware keep it
set up all the time, network it with their current systems, and/or use
KVM switches to reduce the clutter?


Footnote: I was probably one of the last people to actually order one
of these drives from Gateway.  I know they didn't offer them any more
when I was shopping for a replacement computer a few years later.

-- 
Lee K. Seitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

2004-01-20 Thread Lee K. Seitz

Feldhamer, Stuart stated:
>
>Did I do something wrong here? More generally, what is
>the opinion of the people on this list regarding a game that came in two
>versions: one on 5.25 inch disks and one on 3.5 inch disks? Are the 3.5 inch
>disks more valuable?

I don't know that one is more valuable than the other.  With today's
gamers, no doubt the 3.5" is more *useful*.  I haven't used the Game
Trading Zone yet, but I always state the type of media in my eBay
auctions.  For example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=182&item=3655077647
(plug).  I usually offer a backup copy on another media for the winner
as well, if needed.

I would hope anyone interested in vintage games would be knowledgable
enough about the item(s) they want to know what format(s) it was
available on and ask if they knew it came on more than one.  It was
very rude for them to give you negative feedback without e-mailing you
first.  

-- 
Lee K. Seitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

I have been trying to find an external 5.25 drive for use on my laptop for
some time. If anyone has a lead on one of these things, please let me know.

Thanks,

Stuart

-Original Message-
From: Per-Olof Karlsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

There used to be floppy drives you could connect to the parallel port.. Try
looking for one of these, I'm sure they'll work just fine even today. :)

There are also quite recent thingies that let you connect a 3.5" drive via
USB, could be an alternative too (having a 5.25" internally and a 3.5" via
USB)

Cheers,
Peo

-Original Message-
From: Edward Franks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: den 20 januari 2004 19:51
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

On Jan 20, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Feldhamer, Stuart wrote:
[Snip]
> I got no response. Did I do something wrong here? More generally, what 
> is
> the opinion of the people on this list regarding a game that came in 
> two
> versions: one on 5.25 inch disks and one on 3.5 inch disks? Are the 
> 3.5 inch
> disks more valuable?

I don't think you did anything wrong.  The problem is that the 5.25 
inch drives are not very common these days among the casual gamer.  For 
them 3.5 inch disks are more valuable simply because they don't have 
that type of drive.  You might want to describe the media in the 
future.  I've gotten questions on eBay auctions about the Ultima 
Collection even though the image of the game clearly shows "CD-ROM 
Classics".  ;-)

It is going to get even worse.  My current motherboard doesn't even 
support a B: drive!  As I need the 3.5 inch drive as my A: drive this 
means I'll need to keep an older PC around just to deal with 5.25 
floppies.  But how many people have room or even want an older PC 
around just for a few odd games?

-- 

Edward Franks

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Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to 
change without notice. 
It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. 
Details provided do 
not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to 
prior sale. 
CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, 
may have a position 
in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment 
banker or advisor to such.  
Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian 
Imperial Bank of Commerce ("CIBC"), 
it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products 
recommended, purchased, or sold in 
any client accounts 
(i) will not be insured by the FDIC, 
(ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, 
(iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and 
(iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested.

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RE: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

2004-01-20 Thread Per-Olof Karlsson

There used to be floppy drives you could connect to the parallel port.. Try
looking for one of these, I'm sure they'll work just fine even today. :)

There are also quite recent thingies that let you connect a 3.5" drive via
USB, could be an alternative too (having a 5.25" internally and a 3.5" via
USB)

Cheers,
Peo

-Original Message-
From: Edward Franks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: den 20 januari 2004 19:51
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

On Jan 20, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Feldhamer, Stuart wrote:
[Snip]
> I got no response. Did I do something wrong here? More generally, what 
> is
> the opinion of the people on this list regarding a game that came in 
> two
> versions: one on 5.25 inch disks and one on 3.5 inch disks? Are the 
> 3.5 inch
> disks more valuable?

I don't think you did anything wrong.  The problem is that the 5.25 
inch drives are not very common these days among the casual gamer.  For 
them 3.5 inch disks are more valuable simply because they don't have 
that type of drive.  You might want to describe the media in the 
future.  I've gotten questions on eBay auctions about the Ultima 
Collection even though the image of the game clearly shows "CD-ROM 
Classics".  ;-)

It is going to get even worse.  My current motherboard doesn't even 
support a B: drive!  As I need the 3.5 inch drive as my A: drive this 
means I'll need to keep an older PC around just to deal with 5.25 
floppies.  But how many people have room or even want an older PC 
around just for a few odd games?

-- 

Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s

On Jan 20, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Feldhamer, Stuart wrote:
[Snip]
I got no response. Did I do something wrong here? More generally, what 
is
the opinion of the people on this list regarding a game that came in 
two
versions: one on 5.25 inch disks and one on 3.5 inch disks? Are the 
3.5 inch
disks more valuable?
	I don't think you did anything wrong.  The problem is that the 5.25 
inch drives are not very common these days among the casual gamer.  For 
them 3.5 inch disks are more valuable simply because they don't have 
that type of drive.  You might want to describe the media in the 
future.  I've gotten questions on eBay auctions about the Ultima 
Collection even though the image of the game clearly shows "CD-ROM 
Classics".  ;-)

	It is going to get even worse.  My current motherboard doesn't even 
support a B: drive!  As I need the 3.5 inch drive as my A: drive this 
means I'll need to keep an older PC around just to deal with 5.25 
floppies.  But how many people have room or even want an older PC 
around just for a few odd games?

--

Edward Franks

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[SWCollect] 5.25s vs. 3.5s


What do you all think of this:

I made a trade with someone on the game trading zone for a particular game.
I won't tell you which one so you won't try to figure out who it was.
Anyway, I described the condition of the game I was sending in some detail.
We made the trade, and then noticed that the person had left me negative
feedback. The comment was something to the effect of "fool me once, shame on
you. fool me twice, shame on me!". I emailed the person the following:

"I just saw your rating of me on the gametz. I didn't realize that you were
unhappy with our trade. What exactly is/was the problem?"

They responded:

"What would I possibly want with 5.25s.  You went into great detail
describing the condition but never informed me that the disks were 5.25s.  I
have nothing to play this game on or to copy it to.  The value of a 5.25 set
is considerably less than 3.5s.

To your credit though I do appreciate your response."

I then responded:

"I certainly was not trying to deceive you, and I disagree with you on your
estimation of the value. If you want to play the game and don't have a 5.25
inch drive I'm sure you know that you can download it off the 'net. If you
had asked I certainly would have told you, but to tell you the truth, the
disk size did not even occur to me. My personal copy also has 5.25 inch
disks, as do many of the other games in my collection. If I only collected
3.5 inch disks and CDs, I would miss out on many great games.
 
That being the case, if you were not satisfied, I don't understand why you
didn't email me and let me know instead of posting a cryptic message to
gametz. Is this the first time you think I've fooled you, or the second?"

I got no response. Did I do something wrong here? More generally, what is
the opinion of the people on this list regarding a game that came in two
versions: one on 5.25 inch disks and one on 3.5 inch disks? Are the 3.5 inch
disks more valuable?

Stuart

Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to 
change without notice. 
It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. 
Details provided do 
not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to 
prior sale. 
CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, 
may have a position 
in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment 
banker or advisor to such.  
Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian 
Imperial Bank of Commerce ("CIBC"), 
it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products 
recommended, purchased, or sold in 
any client accounts 
(i) will not be insured by the FDIC, 
(ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, 
(iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and 
(iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested.

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RE: [SWCollect] Only opened slightly for pictures...


A lot of times when they say that they are lying. I've bought items where it
supposedly was just opened to look inside or whatever, and stuff turned out
to be missing.

Stuart

-Original Message-
From: Edward Franks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 12:26 PM
To: Software Collectibles Mailing List
Subject: [SWCollect] Only opened slightly for pictures...



Even I cringed when I read this description:  
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
ViewItem&item=3069631145&category=11030

Given the seller's handle, I was amused by the graded mint scale
('gem  
mint'), too.  Perhaps MobyScale 2.0 could add precious stones as  
qualifiers for each grade.  Diamond Mint.  Emerald Good.  Cubic  
Zirconium Poor.  ^_^

-- 

Edward Franks


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Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to 
change without notice. 
It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. 
Details provided do 
not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to 
prior sale. 
CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, 
may have a position 
in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment 
banker or advisor to such.  
Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian 
Imperial Bank of Commerce ("CIBC"), 
it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products 
recommended, purchased, or sold in 
any client accounts 
(i) will not be insured by the FDIC, 
(ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, 
(iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and 
(iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested.

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[SWCollect] Only opened slightly for pictures...

	Even I cringed when I read this description:  
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
ViewItem&item=3069631145&category=11030

	Given the seller's handle, I was amused by the graded mint scale ('gem  
mint'), too.  Perhaps MobyScale 2.0 could add precious stones as  
qualifiers for each grade.  Diamond Mint.  Emerald Good.  Cubic  
Zirconium Poor.  ^_^

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Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] ZorkQuest #2