Re: [Talk-in] [OSM-talk] tags for autorickshaw
On Friday 27 Nov 2009 12:43:17 pm you wrote: > I would suggest > > amenity=taxi > taxi=autorick > > for consistency with highway=service, service=* and others. > how do we fit in 'prepaid', 'metered', 'unmetered'? actually these things are generic to all forms of taxi. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
On Friday 27 Nov 2009 12:36:45 pm Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote: > Agreed.It would still be nice to have this part atleast. > > "Users may note that since this map is editably by anyone, at times there > will be inaccuracies caused by spammers and other anti-social elements." > Irrespective of borders, we can still have spammers cause damage. Preparing > for digital wars :P > but not for boundaries - that will be sitting firmly on my hard disk and no one can mess with them. And the map is not editable - OSM is, and a link is given, so their disclaimer suffices. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Friday 27 Nov 2009 11:51:39 am Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote: > > *-- XLQUEST team / OSM Contributors in India and link to OSM page? > > *(Clarifies We, Things where a foundation will help) > > > > *[1] location to OSM database * > > > > > > Thats good. added few updates to it. > > > > please see my other post regarding boundaries in this thread - if we show > the > official boundaries, we do not need a disclaimer Agreed.It would still be nice to have this part atleast. "Users may note that since this map is editably by anyone, at times there will be inaccuracies caused by spammers and other anti-social elements." Irrespective of borders, we can still have spammers cause damage. Preparing for digital wars :P -- Regards Srikanth.L http://www.google.com/profiles/srik.lak ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
On Friday 27 Nov 2009 11:51:39 am Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote: > *-- XLQUEST team / OSM Contributors in India and link to OSM page? > *(Clarifies We, Things where a foundation will help) > > *[1] location to OSM database * > > > Thats good. added few updates to it. > please see my other post regarding boundaries in this thread - if we show the official boundaries, we do not need a disclaimer -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > hows this: > > The frontiers depicted on this map come from the OSM database*[1]* and > differ > from the official government map of India. We are making efforts to depict > the official boundaries. Until such time please consult the authorities > before > using those parts of the map which vary from the official boundaries. > Users > may > note that since this map is editabl*e* by anyone, at times there will be > inaccuracies > caused by spammers and other anti-social elements. > *-- XLQUEST team / OSM Contributors in India and link to OSM page? *(Clarifies We, Things where a foundation will help) *[1] location to OSM database * Thats good. added few updates to it. -- Regards Srikanth.L http://www.google.com/profiles/srik.lak ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:43:19 am PlaneMad wrote: > i guess you got me wrong, i suggested adding the historical borders of > kashmir kingdom after consulting the pakistani editors into osm. but this > would be rendered only on the indian server as a dotted line or whatever. > for indian use its important to indicate that border without which you cant > publish the map here. > anyway I found a solution - although I need help. The boundaries are *not* in the OSM database. They are in a separate set of files called 'world_boundaries' which is used by osm2pgsql to populate the database. Those files are available here: $ wget http://tile.openstreetmap.org/world_boundaries-spherical.tgz (50M) we need someone to open these files in grass or qgis and edit the Indian boundaries to reflect the official position. Of course we will still have 'Azad Kashmir', but it will be shown as inside India. Or we can add some xml rule not to render it. So can someone with GIS expertise please do the needful? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
i guess you got me wrong, i suggested adding the historical borders of kashmir kingdom after consulting the pakistani editors into osm. but this would be rendered only on the indian server as a dotted line or whatever. for indian use its important to indicate that border without which you cant publish the map here. On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:20:13 am PlaneMad wrote: > > i personally feel that the indian server should show the claimed boundary > > of entire j&k in addition to the present line of control (which btw is > not > > yet an official boundary). maybe this can be added to the osm db as a > > historical border? we would need to discuss this with the folks across > the > > border as well. > > all data on the Indian server is taken from OSM. The idea of separate data > is > too scary to contemplate. However the boundaries are from a separate file, > I > will take a look at that and see what can be done. > > > > kenneth, the disclaimer is below the license: > > "The frontiers depicted on the Indian maps in Wikipedia are from a > neutral > > point of view and may differ from official government maps of India, > > Pakistan and China. Please consult local laws governing publication of > maps > > before usage." > > > > ok - will put this up > > -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > Senior Project Officer > NRC-FOSS > http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ > > ___ > Talk-in mailing list > Talk-in@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in > -- http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:24:00 am Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote: > > "The frontiers depicted on the Indian maps in *Wikipedia* OSM are > > from a neutral point of view and may differ from official government map > > of India, *Pakistan and China.* Please consult local laws > > governing publication of maps before usage." > > On a slightly related note, Since the map is editable by anyone and we may > not have the time to look at OSM data day in and day out, we must put some > additional disclaimers "about editable map" so disclaimer will be complete > covering an act of editing by some chinese guy / govt editing OSM to claim > arunachal pradesh. > hows this: The frontiers depicted on this map come from the OSM database and differ from the official government map of India. We are making efforts to depict the official boundaries. Until such time please consult the authorities before using those parts of the map which vary from the official boundaries. Users may note that since this map is editably by anyone, at times there will be inaccuracies caused by spammers and other anti-social elements. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:20:13 am PlaneMad wrote: > i personally feel that the indian server should show the claimed boundary > of entire j&k in addition to the present line of control (which btw is not > yet an official boundary). maybe this can be added to the osm db as a > historical border? we would need to discuss this with the folks across the > border as well. all data on the Indian server is taken from OSM. The idea of separate data is too scary to contemplate. However the boundaries are from a separate file, I will take a look at that and see what can be done. > > kenneth, the disclaimer is below the license: > "The frontiers depicted on the Indian maps in Wikipedia are from a neutral > point of view and may differ from official government maps of India, > Pakistan and China. Please consult local laws governing publication of maps > before usage." > ok - will put this up -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote: > > > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > >> On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:06:01 am Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: >> > On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:00:36 am Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote: >> > > Can we have a link to detailed disclaimer page on http://xlquest.net >> >> > > Personally, I would like to have the map in present form with a >> > > disclaimer. Thoughts please. >> > >> > I will put a disclaimer - I just saw 'Azad Kashmir' on the map. >> > >> >> btw - where is the disclaimer? or do you have the text for a disclaimer? >> > > Sorry the disclaimer is on the Template box and additional notes below. Put > it out on your source control. We can work it out and put one. You must be > able to get a better one being a lawyer. > > "The frontiers depicted on the Indian maps in *Wikipedia* OSM are > from a neutral point of view and may differ from official government map of > India, *Pakistan and China.* Please consult local laws governing > publication of maps before usage." > On a slightly related note, Since the map is editable by anyone and we may not have the time to look at OSM data day in and day out, we must put some additional disclaimers "about editable map" so disclaimer will be complete covering an act of editing by some chinese guy / govt editing OSM to claim arunachal pradesh. -- Regards Srikanth.L http://j.mp/SrikanthL ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
i personally feel that the indian server should show the claimed boundary of entire j&k in addition to the present line of control (which btw is not yet an official boundary). maybe this can be added to the osm db as a historical border? we would need to discuss this with the folks across the border as well. kenneth, the disclaimer is below the license: "The frontiers depicted on the Indian maps in Wikipedia are from a neutral point of view and may differ from official government maps of India, Pakistan and China. Please consult local laws governing publication of maps before usage." On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:06:01 am Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:00:36 am Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote: > > > Can we have a link to detailed disclaimer page on http://xlquest.net > > > about the borders used. Since we are calling it Indian OSM Server > running > > > out of NRC-FOSS money, We should put up something to avoid any noises > > > against OSM in general.There has been quite a few noises in wikipedia > > > against Arun's map and more people(govt officials) getting caught for > > > using them. > > > > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:India_roadway_map.svg Notes > > > included in this has a detailed disclaimer. > > > > > > OR > > > > > > To be inline with "patriotic folks" without NPOV, Indian Server should > > > reflect legal borders mentioned by Survey of India,GoI. > > > > > > Personally, I would like to have the map in present form with a > > > disclaimer. Thoughts please. > > > > I will put a disclaimer - I just saw 'Azad Kashmir' on the map. > > > > btw - where is the disclaimer? or do you have the text for a disclaimer? > -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > Senior Project Officer > NRC-FOSS > http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ > > ___ > Talk-in mailing list > Talk-in@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in > -- http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:06:01 am Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:00:36 am Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote: > > > Can we have a link to detailed disclaimer page on http://xlquest.net > > > > Personally, I would like to have the map in present form with a > > > disclaimer. Thoughts please. > > > > I will put a disclaimer - I just saw 'Azad Kashmir' on the map. > > > > btw - where is the disclaimer? or do you have the text for a disclaimer? > Sorry the disclaimer is on the Template box and additional notes below. Put it out on your source control. We can work it out and put one. You must be able to get a better one being a lawyer. "The frontiers depicted on the Indian maps in *Wikipedia* OSM are from a neutral point of view and may differ from official government map of India, *Pakistan and China.* Please consult local laws governing publication of maps before usage." -- Regards Srikanth.L http://j.mp/SrikanthL ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:06:01 am Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:00:36 am Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote: > > Can we have a link to detailed disclaimer page on http://xlquest.net > > about the borders used. Since we are calling it Indian OSM Server running > > out of NRC-FOSS money, We should put up something to avoid any noises > > against OSM in general.There has been quite a few noises in wikipedia > > against Arun's map and more people(govt officials) getting caught for > > using them. > > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:India_roadway_map.svg Notes > > included in this has a detailed disclaimer. > > > > OR > > > > To be inline with "patriotic folks" without NPOV, Indian Server should > > reflect legal borders mentioned by Survey of India,GoI. > > > > Personally, I would like to have the map in present form with a > > disclaimer. Thoughts please. > > I will put a disclaimer - I just saw 'Azad Kashmir' on the map. > btw - where is the disclaimer? or do you have the text for a disclaimer? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
On Friday 27 Nov 2009 10:00:36 am Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote: > Can we have a link to detailed disclaimer page on http://xlquest.net about > the borders used. Since we are calling it Indian OSM Server running out of > NRC-FOSS money, We should put up something to avoid any noises against OSM > in general.There has been quite a few noises in wikipedia against Arun's > map and more people(govt officials) getting caught for using them. > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:India_roadway_map.svg Notes included > in this has a detailed disclaimer. > > OR > > To be inline with "patriotic folks" without NPOV, Indian Server should > reflect legal borders mentioned by Survey of India,GoI. > > Personally, I would like to have the map in present form with a disclaimer. > Thoughts please. > I will put a disclaimer - I just saw 'Azad Kashmir' on the map. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
[Talk-in] Border Disclaimer
Can we have a link to detailed disclaimer page on http://xlquest.net about the borders used. Since we are calling it Indian OSM Server running out of NRC-FOSS money, We should put up something to avoid any noises against OSM in general.There has been quite a few noises in wikipedia against Arun's map and more people(govt officials) getting caught for using them. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:India_roadway_map.svg Notes included in this has a detailed disclaimer. OR To be inline with "patriotic folks" without NPOV, Indian Server should reflect legal borders mentioned by Survey of India,GoI. Personally, I would like to have the map in present form with a disclaimer. Thoughts please. -- Regards Srikanth.L http://www.google.com/profiles/srik.lak ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
[Talk-in] symbols
hi, I put a list of India specific symbols being used on the main page of the Indian server. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Rendering of Shops
On Thursday 26 Nov 2009 11:28:45 pm PlaneMad wrote: > thats been on my mind for a long time. i think we need to make a priority > list first of the different kinds of shops in india > tea shops, dhabas, marriage halls, roadside shrines, crematoriums, burning ghats, huts (in villages and slums) -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] new tag for auto stand
will do. hexagon and circle will be indistinguishable at that size, a square should help. i always thought that pure red/green are safe complementary colors for the color blind. also, other ideas on differentiating meter/non metered and prepaid are appreciated. On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: > Please, oh please, do not use the same shape between red and green at small > sizes. They will look the same to about 10% of all males. Use a green circle > and a red hexagon or square. > > -- > Kiran Jonnalagadda > http://jace.zaiki.in/ > > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:30 PM, PlaneMad wrote: > >> how about this with a green indicator. >> >> so green=prepaid, no problems >> blue=meter >> red=non metered, prepare to fight :) >> >> kenneth can you post a link if it shows up on the map, id like to know how >> it looks >> > > ___ > Talk-in mailing list > Talk-in@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in > > -- http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] India is not in list
its a comparison of only these countries http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/asia_countries.html On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:12 PM, H.S.Rai wrote: > Pakistan is doing well. > > http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/asia_countries_toplist.html > > -- > H.S.Rai > > ___ > Talk-in mailing list > Talk-in@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in > -- http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Rendering of Shops
thats been on my mind for a long time. i think we need to make a priority list first of the different kinds of shops in india On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:46 PM, H.S.Rai wrote: > On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves > wrote: > > > > you have commit rights to the xml file > > But, before I do that I need to know opinion of others. > > -- > H.S.Rai > > ___ > Talk-in mailing list > Talk-in@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in > -- http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Trees
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > actually osmi has marker=tree - osm has landuse=wood which will render 2 > trees. If you put marker=tree, it will get rendered in osmi. I used natural=tree from JOSM. -- H.S.Rai ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Rendering of Shops
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > you have commit rights to the xml file But, before I do that I need to know opinion of others. -- H.S.Rai ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Trees
On Thursday 26 Nov 2009 10:04:08 pm H.S.Rai wrote: > On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > we have - it is marker=tree (needs to be corrected) > > Do I need to change tag, or style sheet will be corrected? > actually osmi has marker=tree - osm has landuse=wood which will render 2 trees. If you put marker=tree, it will get rendered in osmi. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Rendering of Shops
On Thursday 26 Nov 2009 10:23:46 pm H.S.Rai wrote: > gillMaping team entered data related to different shops. Very few are > being rendered. Should we have a generic symbol for shop? > > shop=foo > > If foo matched with something for which specific symbol (icon) is > there, it should be rendered with that symbol, otherwise with generic > symbol, instead of not rendering. > > Is this scheme workable? > you have commit rights to the xml file -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
[Talk-in] Rendering of Shops
gillMaping team entered data related to different shops. Very few are being rendered. Should we have a generic symbol for shop? shop=foo If foo matched with something for which specific symbol (icon) is there, it should be rendered with that symbol, otherwise with generic symbol, instead of not rendering. Is this scheme workable? -- H.S.Rai ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
[Talk-in] India is not in list
Pakistan is doing well. http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/asia_countries_toplist.html -- H.S.Rai ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Trees
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > we have - it is marker=tree (needs to be corrected) Do I need to change tag, or style sheet will be corrected? -- H.S.Rai ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Trees
On Thursday 26 Nov 2009 9:08:01 pm Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Thursday 26 Nov 2009 1:32:08 pm H.S.Rai wrote: > > I found tree is not being rendered on Indian OSM > > > > See green dot near post office. > > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=30.845832&lon=75.862414& > >;zoom=18&a mp;layers=B000FTF > > > > Should we have "tree" on IOSM? > > > > we have - it is marker=tree (needs to be corrected) > and now I see an auto stand in Chromepet: http://xlquest.net/?zoom=19&lat=13.08193&lon=80.27482&layers=B -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Trees
On Thursday 26 Nov 2009 1:32:08 pm H.S.Rai wrote: > I found tree is not being rendered on Indian OSM > > See green dot near post office. > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=30.845832&lon=75.862414&zoom=18&a > mp;layers=B000FTF > > Should we have "tree" on IOSM? > we have - it is marker=tree (needs to be corrected) -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
[Talk-in] Trees
I found tree is not being rendered on Indian OSM See green dot near post office. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=30.845832&lon=75.862414&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF Should we have "tree" on IOSM? -- H.S.Rai ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
