Re: [Tango-L] (no subject)
http://concept.olivermechanicalinc.com Dubravko Kakarigi ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Women's power in tango
Once a woman embraces a man to dance with, she is not helpless to just "obey" -- unless a leader is so bad to be totally insensitive, in which case she would likely never again dance with him. With a little effort she can let the leader know what she (dis)likes in a dance, starting with an embrace to musicality to embellishments, etc. On the other hand, there is a variety of reasons why we dance that are all individual and hardly debatable. So, what constitutes a good dance varies from situation to situation. What is most important is that there is a good communication between the partners so that they can adjust to each other's desires. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks === http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] heels on floor?
Now that the topic comes back again, let me add a few words. When I teach, I always emphasize, half in jest, that there is no Central Committee on tango (yet), so you do not go to a Gulag if in "error" of some sort. But then on a more serious note I state that I teach what I know, what works for me, and what I like. I also add, which bit of wisdom I inherited from another teacher (I think it was Jorge Torres) but agree with completely, that ultimately everyone must find their own dance since all bodies and minds and hearts are different. Of course, in pivot, the heel comes of the floor. As an advice, I claim that studying with one teacher, hopefully a good one, one that teaches elements, concepts, techniques, ideas, for a long time is better for a novice than switching. Then also, taking private lessons is always preferred to group classes, if one can afford them, of course. As a dancer I admire and welcome with great satisfaction when a lady/follower makes a deep forward step into the opening of my deep back step, usually in parallel feet system and usually with her left leg. I feel it as a complete trust and both a surrender and a strong opening as a partner dancer for whatever may come next. I never look, of course, but it feels like such a forward step is always made heel first. In most other cases, I feel that the heel is always slightly above the floor. However, I really do not care if it indeed is or is not, as long as the dance is good for both partners. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks === http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] shopping cart tango
The trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-629zssP21Y === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks === http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ - Original Message - > From: meaning of life > To: tango list > Cc: > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 2:19 AM > Subject: [Tango-L] shopping cart tango > > hello > > does anyone have a link to the original shopping cart tango? the one that > ends > in the parking lot > > thanx > > dan > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] shopping cart tango
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBWeyFML2Xc === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks === http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ > > From: meaning of life >To: tango list >Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 2:19 AM >Subject: [Tango-L] shopping cart tango > > >hello > >does anyone have a link to the original shopping cart tango? the one that ends >in the parking lot > >thanx > > > > >dan > >___ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] male/female dancers
Almost without an exception (I could probably come up with one or two), applause during a "demo" dance is given when a leader (most often a male) does something beautiful/new/creative/surprising. Is that your experience as well? When you look at dancers during an exhibition/demo dance, where is your focus? I contend that a beautiful form of one dancer is nearly impossible to display consistently without the adequately good technique of the other. I also contend that female dancers rarely get sufficient credit for their own expressed musicality and beautiful forms. Am I just revealing my own bias or do these assertions have merit? ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks === http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Gustavo and Giselle
Of course, it is an opinion as there is no objective way to make that judgment, and it should be so understood. Additionally, there are teachers who are great in teaching one particular aspect of the dance and others of another, etc... as well as, there are teachers who work well with some people and not so well with others. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks === http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ - Original Message - > From: Michael ... > "Gustavo and Giselle are the best living tango teachers in the> world today," > is an opinion that's not universally shared. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Gustavo and Giselle
I agree 100%. As I wrote in my tango blog recently, G&G are uniquely wonderful as dancers, as teachers, and as people. Any chance I have to be around them, taking classes or not or just chatting about things tango, if I were you I'd do it. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks === http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ > > From: "Nussbaum, Martin (Law)" ... Gustavo and Giselle are the best living tango teachers in the world today. Their dance is a masterwork of interpretation, phrasing, musicality, and theme. The intimacy and joy they share on the dance floor is the reason I started dancing and a continued source of inspiration today. >Best, >Martin ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] plaintext rule
There were several instances of my messages to Tango-L that never got posted. I had wondered about it, but it did not bother me too much. Then I remembered the "plaintext" requirement for the list (rule 3.a.) and, voila, there it is. Has that happened to you? Does that affect your participation? ...dubravko = seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks = http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L past and where we should be heading.
What's lacking is participation, the medium is fine as it is. For example, J.C. Cáceres passed away. Any thoughts? I, for one, love his jazz-murga-candombe-milonga connection. As a DJ I love to play some of his music (beyond "Tango Negro" and "Toca Tango"). ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks === http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ From: robert-b To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L past and where we should be heading. Concerning Reuven’s thoughts about a platform--what about something like Slashdot.org, which is a Web site that hosts various discussions organized into various independent discussion topics? I’m not sure what they’re using for software or how the site was designed, but it’s a nice option in that it provides the ease of access of a Web site and the ability to create and follow independent discussions. I’ve nothing against mailing lists per se, but there are options for more up-to-date interfaces that are less cumbersome and advertising heavy than Yahoo. Facebook is a non-starter as far as I’m concerned. It was never designed for extended discussion of any kind. Robert B. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] RIP Juan Carlos Cáceres | 1936-2015
A very nice write-up about Cáceres in Tangauta: Juan Carlos Cáceres | 1936-2015 (Español) | | | | | | | | | | | Juan Carlos Cáceres | 1936-2015 (Español)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAchvzkBrJ8 Músico, cantante, compositor, pintor (Buenos Aires, Argentina 4 SET 1936 – Périgny, Francia 5 ABR 2015)… | | | | View on www.tangauta.net | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks === http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ From: Christian Lüthen To: Tango L Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 2:48 AM Subject: [Tango-L] RIP Juan Carlos Cáceres | 1936-2015 RIP Juan Carlos Cáceres | 1936-2015 https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_C%C3%A1ceres . ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Should Tango-L continue?
I suspect I am not the only one on the list who is not a big fan of Facebook, but I do note that there are many people who rarely read email too. I responded to the survey and voted to keep Tango-L alive. It's all about priorities. ...dubravkoP.S. Now, there is something to discuss, eh? === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks === http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ From: robin tara To: Keith Elshaw Cc: Tango L Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Should Tango-L continue? Keith, Reflecting on things digital, after reading your message I immediately looked for the 'like' button. Guess that sums it up. Tango-L was great in its time, but I haven't read anything on it for years. Robin Tara http://www.taratangoshoes.com 1-207-505-5227 On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Keith Elshaw wrote: > Tango-L was undeniably Very Important for years. I am one of the many > who appreciates today the friendships I made through Tango-L. > > In a perfect world, would I like to see it find a new relevancy? Yes, of > course. > > Is that possible? I personally don’t see why not – although apparently a > fresh model would be key to any hopes. That time has passed it by > (through no fault of its own) is not an indictment of it’s original > goals and ways. But I think it would take people much smarter than me > to figure out how to bring it back, given the way the world has changed. > > Shahrukh blessed and was mid-wife to the community as it began life in > the digital age. I will always be grateful for his wisdom and > generosity. > > I rue the day Tango-L went away. > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Questions about the individual leader's dance...
Hello Mario: No repertoire; although, I do have certain relationships in the dance I like and on occasion may attempt to create an opportunity for. Notice I did not say "steps" but rather "relationships" as what happens depends on both dancers. What is sufficient depends on my partner. There may be those who are looking for excitement of the movement and novelty and then there are those who are looking for a trans (the two are not necessarily exclusive). I certainly prefer the latter in which case all that matters is the harmony I can help achieve with my partner where the music and the environment are the common vehicle for both of us. But, if you insist, I would say that my "repertoire" consists of feeling the music, sensing my partner's spirit, and offering mine in exchange--everything else just happens (or not). ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === > > From: Mario >To: TANGO-L >Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2013 10:09 AM >Subject: [Tango-L] Questions about the individual leader's dance... > > At what point in your dance do you take a 'risk'..? What comprises a >'risk' for you? > Do you have a repertoire that you dance each dance with? What does it >consist of ? > Can you make your repertoire suffice for every song that you dance to? >..How does that work? > Are your collection of figures/movements sufficient for your followers...? >..and when not, why not? > Have you seen seasoned dancers with a limited repertoire and have they >performed miracles with only four or five figures/movements ?? ..if not, >here is one: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIlSw-HNADQ >___ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] (no subject) - sorry - spam - I took precautions now
=== seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === > > From: Dubravko Kakarigi >To: susanverg...@hotmail.com; lbrfsu...@comcast.net; tango-l@mit.edu; >fne...@explorandes.com; codeblu...@hotmail.com; mizvt...@yahoo.com; >godfre...@earthlink.net; lindagreen...@gmail.com; cros...@figgbridge.com >Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:40 PM >Subject: [Tango-L] (no subject) > >http://www.caesarssf.com/wp-content/themes/caesars1.0/googles.html >___ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango Meccas (WAS Re: Seminar review)
Yes, Berlin is wonderful for tango lovers of all kinds - all the way from those who are strictly "golden age" to those who are experimenting. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === > >From: Siamak Tazari >To: tango-l@mit.edu >Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:06 PM >Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Meccas (WAS Re: Seminar review) > >As far as Tango meccas go, if there need be any place outside of BsAs, it >would be Berlin, Germany. I think there are a lot of arguments supporting >that. I have repeatedly heard that it has the biggest and most lively tango >scene outside of BsAs and also seen that there is a lot of exchange >happening constantly between those two cities. > >--Siamak >___ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Men's strategies (3)
Very nice write-up Steve. And, just in case anyone is questioning Steve's ability to remember all those details, I was sitting with him once or twice at a milonga - he was taking copious notes after every tanda and still managed to get the dances. Way to go Steve! === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === > >From: Steve Littler >To: Tango-L List >Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 9:44 AM >Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Men's strategies (3) > >One time I met a formerly famous model/dancer/TV/Film personality (now >starting to age and wrinkle but still quite fit and attractive to an >... > >Abrazos! > >El Stevito de Gainesville > > > >___ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Better? Worse? Just different
Well said, Jonathan. Incidentally, we just earlier today watched "Si Sos Brujo" in Cafe Pavadita, a forth Sunday of the month brunch/practice we hold in Gainesville, FL where we enjoy friendship through our love of Tango. Highly recommended. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === > >From: O Bardo >To: tango-l@mit.edu >Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:59 PM >Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Better? Worse? Just different > >On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 7:46 AM, wrote: >... > >There is currently another thread discussing tango music. In case there is > >anyone on the list who has not seen "Si Sos Brujo" I cannot recommend it >strongly enough. The documentary demonstrates the specialness of tango and >music like jazz that needs to personally transmit the music and techniques >from generation to generation. It is not enough to write in down. The >written music can only serve as a notational aid but doesn't capture the >music. > >I do hope that if you see yourself as a tango dancer you will come to see >yourself as a lover of tango music first and then a dancer. > >Jonathan Thornton >___ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Music: Beat, Energy, Emotion & the Embrace
Amazing and fantastic how different we are! In my experience, "affection and romanticism" can be wonderfully shared at the arm's-length distance, maybe even more so. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === > >From: RonTango >To: Charles Roques ; Tango-L >Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:02 PM >Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Music: Beat, Energy, Emotion & the Embrace > >- Original Message >> From: Charles Roques >> >> . one of the principal reasons that contributes to many dancers >> resorting >>to non-tango music for dancing: it ts easier to hear the beat in other >>music >>or modern "electro-pop" tango. > >That's interesting, especially since those who prefer non-tango music for >mimicking tango steps usually don't dance to the rhythm of the music. I think >what they get from the non-tango music is energy - energy for the large and >rapid movements that to them define tango. > >In contrast, milonguero dancers conserve energy, keeping it inside of the >embrace, using some for movement and some for sharing emotion with their >partner >in the embrace. This is hard to do at arm's length - at least sharing positive >energy. The only kind of energy that can be shared at arm's length is negative >- >dragging or pushing you partner. It takes an embrace to share positive energy >- >affection and romanticism. > >Ron >___ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] proportions
Yes, sherrie, I agree, the length of the tanda should be a consideration more than the number of songs in it, although, folks get used to certain number of songs/tanda and are surprised if you deviate from the "standard." I try to stay within 10 minutes/tangotanda when I DJ, which may be two, three, or four songs. There are many, many other consideration for creating tandas and sequencing them too, but that is a subject for a different e-mail list (TangoDJ). I do agree that being a dancer should be helpful for DJ-ing, although it may introduce a very strong bias, which in and of itself is not bad as long as the DJ is known for it and is consistent. I think dancers do not like too many surprises. A DJ should not be educating the dancers, but should play the music most people would want to dance to. ...dubravko P.S. The mail dancer in that Youtube clip I linked to before is Osvaldo Natucci who is also a very well known DJ. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] proportions
- Original Message > From: "sherp...@aol.com" ... > I don't think I have ever seen a DJ in BA danceIt is sort of like a Oh, but they do indeed dance -- not every one of them, but many do. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQtItjJyMfU, for example. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] A Training Scale
On the "leader/follower" issue. Would it be useful to think of the roles of the "leader" and "follower" (use any other substitute dichotomous terms you wish to describe the relationship) continuously and flawlessly changing between partners during the dance all the time? === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Using the social dance as THE model
This whole discussion about rules, social- vs show-dancing, etc. has lost meaning for me. I dance my inner dance that is inspired by the music, the partner, the occasion, my state of being, and the floor with or without other dancers on it. There is no way that I will dance twice the same way - I just do not think I could do it. Major breakthrough in my dancing started happening as I stopped thinking and let the internal dance come out. Of course, I will try my best not to disturb other dancers as a matter of common courtesy. I used to get aggravated by those who do disturb others, but then I realized that nothing is achieved and consequently I just try to get away from such folk as much as possible - end of story. As a milonga organizer, I will intervene if I see ppl continuously disturbing other dances. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cheryl Burke Forever Tango interviews
- Original Message > From: Nina Pesochinsky ... > Tango is exotic to all who don't understnad it. It is sacred to all who do. Well said, Nina! ...dubravko ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] The care and feeding of new leads.
Excellent questions Mario. Yes, I am a male. My first few months were really scary. During my first visit to Buenos Aires (by myself), year and a half after I started dancing it took me one hour to get enough guts to walk up to El Beso, etc. etc. Why did I continue? Because I had the dance inside myself. The problem was inadequate technique for basic elements, all aspects of it: walk, posture, embrace, connection - I always had the musicality, which carried me through - I just had to dance, the music makes me dance. Suggestion? Technique, technique, technique -- provided that there is a feeling for the music. Teach good walking and simple turns and you have the basics. Provide guided practice of technique. Get the "leads" to practice with each other - a lot. Do not show too many tango shows. Distinguish between those who dance just to "get the girls" (nothing particularly wrong with it in itself, but quite misplaced for tango) from those who just have to dance and focus on the latter. Have teachers who are enthusiastic and who love dancers. Teach how to treat the partner with care and respect. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Line of Dance
Thank you for pointing this out. When people know how to dance, strictly following line of dance rule is meaningless, because you end up dancing with other pairs on the floor co-creating a symbiotic dance of the whole group - that's when the whole new horizon of dancing opens up. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message > From: NANCY > To: tango-l@mit.edu; Phil Seyer > Sent: Tue, October 12, 2010 9:05:34 AM > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Line of Dance > > > > --- On Sat, 10/9/10, Phil Seyer wrote: > > From: Phil Seyer > > One instructor points out in one of his videos that it's safe for him > to dance backwards > into a certain space because he knows the space is available since he > has just been > there himself moments > > That might work in Buenos Aires where the milongueros study the dance floor, >sometimes for hours, before they set foot on the pista and where they can >count >on all the other dancers following the line of dance and staying in their own >lanes. I danced with a gentleman who took seven ( count 'em) quick steps >backward, on a diagonal, into the center of the room without disturbing >anyone. >Anywhere else or in a milonga full of tourists doing their own thing with no >regard for the flow of the room, it would be a disaster. > > JMHO > Nancy > > > > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] social ethical behavior
You may think of this what you wish, but here's an excerpt of my experience from a recent visit to Bs As dancing at a traditional afternoon milonga (3-10pm). My partner and I always set together and mostly danced with each other. On three occasions (out of four visits to that milonga), men (each older than 60, I estimate) signaled me from a distance to see if it is okay to invite my partner to dance; I affirmed, they then connected with my partner with a cabeceo and danced. On one occasion a young fellow stepped out in front of our table, which was at the edge of the floor so he was standing on the floor with no one else on the floor, and asked my partner to dance - she declined. BTW, my partner and I had an agreement that if she wanted to dance with someone else, she would let me know (sometimes I suggested a good dancer to her as well), and I would facilitate the exchange by giving the gentleman a chance to confer with me first. This all may seem quite anachronistic and chauvinistic but it worked well because it followed the unwritten rules of behavior and eliminated any embarrassment or discomfort. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message > From: "macfro...@aol.com" > To: tango-l@mit.edu > Sent: Tue, August 31, 2010 1:40:13 PM > Subject: [Tango-L] social ethical behavior > > > Vince, this is so inaccurate! > > > If the "porteno" is under 30, he probably goes to practicas where anything >goes. > > > As a dancer who has lived and taught tango with my milonguero parter in BsAs >for many years, let me assure you that the codigos are still respected and >observed in all of the traditional milongas. > > > In places like La Viruta, where the idea is to meet someone for >extracurricular activities after the milonga and not to dance beautiful >tangos, > >many men are aggressive and assault women at their tables (if they're lucky >enough at La Viruta to have a table) by grabbing their arms and taking them >to >the dance floor. This works particularly well with foreigners and young >people >who have not learned the codigos. > > But just try this at a traditional milonga! The guy will be laughed out the >door. > > Cherie > http://tangocherie.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > I have it on good authority from someone who has returned and experienced > > > *many* milongas in BsAs that most portenoes do not use the codes. In fact > > > they approach women as men do so in Australia. And yes, there are sleazes > > > amongst them. > > > > > > The notions of romantic codes have been lost I think upon the modern > > > generation. > > > > > > > > > BTW, it is Niki, not Nick > > > > > > Vince > > > In Melbourne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cultural Heritage
Speaking for myself, it is the culture that is so unique which makes my tango a richer experience than it can be anywhere else. Having an inkling of the culture when listening to the music is then magnified 10-fold with the first breath of air inhaled upon arrival. Hearing the noise of traffic on Corrientes and of small children going to school across the street on Ayacucho, consuming cafe con leche y medialunas for breakfast in a local eatery, hearing Castellano on the radio, all that and much more is part of tango which can not be felt in too many other places (I have not been to other cities in Rio de la Plata region). Small addition, Romero: men from around the world are drawn to Buenos Aires to dance as well, not only women. And there are lousy porteno dancers as well. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage
I do understand the feeling of emptiness, sadness, loss of something dear when you see things you love change. But, nothing, nothing ever remains the same. The fact that so many cry out in favor of preserving tango "as we know it" truly amazes me. That goal is truly impossible. Instead, let's just be constructive and contribute our own creativity into the river of energies causing tango to change. Change it will, whether we want it or not. The question is only whether we will passively see it happen and complain that it did not happen the way we want or actively affect the way it happens. The choice is ours. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage
Thanks Jack for this post. The (at least partial) answer to your question can be found here: What is Intangible Cultural Heritage? at http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/index.php?pg=2 ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message > From: Jack Dylan > To: Tango-L@mit.edu > Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 7:02:02 AM > Subject: [Tango-L] Tango's Cutural Heritage > > The Tango has been declared part of the 'World's Intangible Cultural Heritage > of > Humanity' by UNESCO, which aims to preserve a list of legacies under threat > from global change. An Argentine official said he was "very proud that the > music and dance of the Tango have now been safeguarded for humanity". > But has anyone wondered just what they intend to preserve and safeguard > and just how they intend to do this? The Tango that is danced in much of the > world is very different to what is danced in the traditional milongas of > Buenos Aires and, with the growth of tango tourists to Buenos Aires, is > there a danger that the traditional milongas will be unable to survive in > their present form? The Argentines themselves seem to understand that, > when they attend a traditional milonga, they adjust their behaviour and > dance and respect the codes and culture of those milongas. If they want to > behave differently and dance differently, they attend other venues such as > the nuevo practicas and places like La Viruta and others. From my own > experience, many non-Argentines just don't seem to understand > this. Will the situation get worse as time passes or do the milonga > organisers [or UNESCO] have some contingency plans to stop this from > happening? Does anyone have any thoughts or information on > this? Jack > ___ Tango-L mailing > list > href="mailto%3A%25e%25">Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] dreaded back step
From: Alexis Cousein ... > The Golden Rule: don't step where you don't know you have room, or adjust > the step length to make sure you do have the room. Whether the > "step" is sideways, to your back, to your front or turning doesn't change > that. That is only part of the story. What is much more important is to be able to predict with a reasonable degree of certainty that no one else also sees that space and try to get into it just as you do. Also, watching other people dance, if they are good dancers with good navigation skills, it is quite possible to see when they will vacate a spot allowing you to get into it if desirable. That is how the dance becomes highly social and you end up dancing with more than just your partner, offering a lot more possibilities. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Berlin for NYE
Any (public) AT New Year's Eve milongas/parties in Berlin, Germany? === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Time signatures in tango music?
A simple google search (or Tango-L search) would have, among others, yielded http://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/Tango-L/2001/msg02011.html Do take a look! === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === From: Zpetrovic To: tango-L@mit.edu Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 11:34:11 AM Subject: [Tango-L] Time signatures in tango music? Hello everyone, I was wondering could you help me understand time signatures in tango music? Is it 2/4, 4/4, 4/8 or...? ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] How do you create a connection?
This may sound a bit esoteric, but a deeply rooted and focused intent coupled with moving from the core gets transmitted to and organically understood by your partner who is sensitive and tuned in and vice versa. Tango does not allow fallacy and short cuts. Looking for all and only mechanistic aids for connecting in tango misses the point of tango. Physical connection is secondary to the mental/spiritual one. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message > From: Jack Dylan > To: Tango-L > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:40:40 AM > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] How do you create a connection? > > > From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) > > > > Funny, usually inhaling has the opposite effect of suspending the movements > ... > > ... When the man exhales, her knee softens and she can step. > > > > This is a good subject for a thread, but that's exactly what I was thinking. > 'Inhale to suspend a movement and exhale to lead the step' > > Inhaling deeply to lead a side step would kinda send a mixed message? > > Jack > > > > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] What is Tango? (Or Tango Categories) - Part 3 Final
Thank you Bettina for writing what I imagine many are thinking to themselves. I would only like to add that tango is musical, lyrical, and dance expression of the culture which gave it and continues to give it its essence and so it evolves as the culture does. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Dark milongas prevent Cabeceo (was Invitation and refusal)
This is probably not a secret to anyone -- there are milongas where lights are turned up at the end of the tanda and turned down after the first 30 seconds (or so) of the next tanda. It should not take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Refusing a dance...
From: Jack Dylan ... > You don't say what your response to the lady would be. In my case, I'd have > to be in real pain before I would turn down a lady's request to dance. Right! I didn't. Only once did I flat out decline an invitation to dance. But, I must admit that sometimes I do employ certain evasive techniques. For example, there is this one particular lady with whom I dance and like to dance, actually, but not every single tanda - there are other dancers I'd like to dance with. Many times she comes and parks herself near me, standing there behind me, or something, waiting for the cortina/tanda and I know what's up. If I really do not wish to dance with her, I get up and go to the bar or to the restroom or something like that in order to avoid the potentially unpleasant situation before it even starts playing itself out. So far, there has been no problems with that. I rationalize that that, somewhat sneaky behaviour, is like a cabeceo situation where I simply do not look at her. ...dubravko P.S. Hi "Jack" === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === From: Jack Dylan To: Tango-L Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 9:46:13 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Refusing a dance... > From: Dubravko Kakarigi > > In the absence of cabeceo, I find the situation even more complicated when a > lady comes to ask me to dance and I do not want to dance with her or just do > not > wish to dance at the moment (tired, want to watch, not inspired by the music, > whatever). > Hi Dubravko, You don't say what your response to the lady would be. In my case, I'd have to be in real pain before I would turn down a lady's request to dance. Jack ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Refusing a dance...
In the absence of cabeceo, I find the situation even more complicated when a lady comes to ask me to dance and I do not want to dance with her or just do not wish to dance at the moment (tired, want to watch, not inspired by the music, whatever). I am also always utterly puzzled when some ask folks to dance the next tanda before they ever heard the first bar of the music, many times at the very end of the previous tanda/beginning of the cortina. It's totally amazing. I would not do it even with my most favorite dancing partner. How in the world do you know you'd want to dance at all? To me, if I do not like the music being played it is not likely that I would "give" my partner a good dance. So, what's up with that? ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Is it Balls, or just a Heel?
I suppose the use of good old cabeceo has its advantages, no? === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] How many figures do you need?
Terminology I use when teaching, and I do this without claiming that it is correct or anything like that, purpose being just to be able identify and talk about things we do, is "molinete" for the case when the axis of rotation is in one partner's leg/side-of-the-body and "giro" when the axis of rotation is between the partners. Since we need terms to address things we discuss/teach, this terminology has served me well, right or wrong. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === From: Bertil Nestorius To: "tango-l@mit.edu" Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 4:10:26 AM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] How many figures do you need? For me a molinette is what the woman/follower dance when the couple is doing a Giro. That means molinette is short for back-side-front. Best regards, Bertil ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #4: Before you dance
I too always use an ATM. It may be a bit more expensive at times, perhaps, but is very convenient and a time-saver (24/7). ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message > From: Jack Dylan > To: tango-l > Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 11:47:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #4: Before you dance > > > > From: Michael tangoman...@cavtel.net > > > C) Currency Exchange > > Use Banco de Nacional Argentina at the airport and not kiosks. There > > is no commission charge at the bank. If possible, get all the pesos > > you´ll need. You´ll have to wait in line if you decide to do it in > > town. In fact waiting in line at the bank is the Argentine national > > pastime, not futbol. > > > > I've never stepped inside a bank in BaSa. I just use the El Banco ATMs > and withdrawals are deducted from my home account with no charges. > When I was there in February the limit was 600 pesos per day. > > Michael, > Sorry and surprised you had a bad time at Gricel. I always liked it. > > Jack > > > > > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] improving discussion in our forum -- sugestions
It just so happens that I was in that same class, Jack, when Susana shocked me too with her statement about the "myth." But, when you look at her leading, she does it with her whole frame, of course, not only the arms (someone else mentioned that on this list), unless she is exaggerating to illustrate something. Also, I took quite a few private lessons with Ana Maria and I never ever heard her say to lead with arms (only). On the other hand I followed a few milongueros in various classes to feel what their lead feels like and occasionally I did feel a strong hand lead - perhaps they felt that otherwise I would not get the lead, I don't know. In my view, there may be some very exceptional cases of dancing chest-to-chest when some more action of arms may be a bit helpful, but in general it should not be necessary at all. So, no big deal. Whatever works and is comfortable to both partners is fine with me. There is no Central Committee on tango, no? ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === From: Jack Dylan To: Tango-L Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:20:25 AM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] improving discussion in our forum -- sugestions Certainly not from Buenos Aires! I'm currently taking classes with Susanna Miller in Mlongueando 2009. Almost her first statement was that "the idea that milongueros lead from the chest is a myth - they use their hands and arms". For the last 2 days, after years of leading from the chest, I've been struggling to lead a lady's Back Ocho while keeping my chest perfectly still. I also take privates with Ana Maria Schapira. Same thing. She says to lead the Ocho Cortado, I need to use a strong inward pressure with my right forearm, otherwise the lady is likely to cross behind and not in front. And please don't flame me and tell me thing EVERYTHING can be led from chest only. I also believed that, but I'm not about to argue with Susanna Miller or Ana Maria Schapira. Jack > From: Myk Dowling > > And what on Earth is _wrong_ with using your arms to dance? Where did > this whole "no arms" schtick come from, and how has it become elevated > to such a high level of worthiness? > > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango music files..? anyone?
You probably already know these, but just in case you don't: zivals.com has large selection of CDs for sale and is a reliable shipper. www.todotango.com has huge selection of free music available for listening on line and/or for downloading. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === From: Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 2:14:24 PM Subject: [Tango-L] Tango music files..? anyone? Hi, the topic of music suddenly gave me the bright idea to ask if anyone would care to send me a file(s) of tango music?? It would be a great favor and much appreciated. M. I have some CD's of my own but having noticed the care in which most Milongas are put together, there must be oodles of great CD collections out there...I'd love to have a few. thks ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] what's going on here?
My way of seeing this: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo) One thing I like about this context for dancing is the backdrop character of the music. This music is not danced (tango music is danced) -- it provides a channel, a basis, an opportunity to amplify a mood. And then that mood is danced out in a very personal way, just as the amplified mood is a very personal matter. Another point about this music is that, for me, it has an equalizing effect on dancing partners in a sense that allows both partners to fully and simultaneously create. It presents an enormous playground for improvisation. In other words, when it is danced well (I have a long way to go, but desire to get there), it allows for a continuous change of traditional "roles" and thus the product, the whole spectrum of dance sensations, is co-creative. Very, very different from classic tango dancing. As a mater of fact, if you dance to this music in a classic way, you will almost certainly get bored quickly. But venture into co-creation and you will be amazed by the whole new set of sensations. Certainly, some of the "classic" sensations are "out the window" too. Hence, you gain some and you lose some. Of course, the classic tango is in a way co-creative as well, but with the "roles" very defined and maintained throughout the dance, with very few exceptions. I am sure there are those on this list who see this in a very different light. I hope we realize that we should not be seeking "the truth" about it, but are simply sharing our own attitude about it which can not be right or wrong - it is very personal. Finally, should this be called tango? I do not really care and do not wish to discuss at all. There is more to be said about it, but I am afraid the message size limit would then reject the post ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Milongueando 2009
I participated in Milongueando 2008 and have my flight and registration paid for for Milongueando 2009. I had a great time this past February and hope for the same this coming February. If' you'd like more info, let me know in personal e-mail. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === From: Jack Dylan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tango-L@mit.edu Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:29:10 PM Subject: [Tango-L] Milongueando 2009 Does anyone know anything about Milongueando 2009? It's quite expensive but is it worth attending since I could be in BsAs at that time? Their website says it's the 3rd International Encuentro of Tango Milonguero in Buenos Aires. Did anyone attend either of the first two? Their website is at: http://www.milongueandoenba.com/new/english/home.html Jack ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] (no subject)
- Original Message From: David Thorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... > Ernest: Thank you for your posting. I have very much enjoyed watching you > dance, both on youtube and in person. You do actually dance! It looks like > fun! I second the above notion. I too enjoyed very much Ernest and Maricela's dancing both on YouTube and in person. Plus they are both very nice and above all humble persons. Kudos! Now, I really got intrigued by what they and others call milonga candombera. Ernest, what would you say is the main few characteristics of milonga candombera? It does not quite follow the candombe as such, does it? given that candombe is not a couple's dance and the rhythms are different, aren't they? I read Jean-Pierre's on-line article where he talks, among other things, about 'the “floating” quarter of the beat ending the phrase,' but it did not help me much. I am familiar with and am actually an aficionado of milonga c/ traspie. But there is much more to it in Jean-Pierre's and Ernest/Maricela's dancing. I sort of get the feeling of it, but hesitate to let loose lest it become a caricature of a milonga c/ transpie. You might say - so what. I just don't know. Please help. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Robot dancing
Dear Sergio (and other members of this group): Thank you for your kind words -- no offense was taken, indeed. I fully support everything you said. Regardless of how proficient one is with anything, luckily, there is always more to learn. I really came to believe that "the more you know, the more you know you don't know" is not just an empty saying. Dear Nancy, I'd love to see you at a milonga. I cherish those few electrifying moments of slow connection, the eye contact, the smile as we approach each other to dance; the slow, give-and-take completion of the embrace; feeling my partner breathe. I am very grateful to any woman who dances with me, it is quite a gift. So, yes, when you dance with me, you are definitely very special, those moments with you as we dance never ever to be repeated. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] 30 second chit-chat an Argentine custom
If there were any ladies on this list who might have danced with me, they could testify that I do not "just start like a robot." There are way too many assumptions here about how and why I dance (I won't argue about that, not important what you may think of me personally) and why I do not care for the prolonged chatting (how long does it take for you to recognize a song, after all? 30 seconds? I don't think so. Robot? I don't think so). I must add, though, that I just can not see how I can focus on feeling the music while chatting. I must be deficient in that, multitasking, department. Oh well, different strokes for different folks. - Original Message From: Sergio Vandekier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... > It is not bad manners to dance in place, it is "different", a good follower may think she did not have time to immerse herself in the music. However, one good reason for the pause for (at least) the first song in a tanda was given above -- consideration for the partner's way for getting into the music. Thank you. That was a good and welcome insight (when applicable). Why not? If that is what it takes for the lady to feel comfortable, it is worth it. Especially if it is part of the alure of dancing in the first place. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] 30 seconds of chit-chat
This is all very interesting. And I am sure the 30 sec chat serves various intended purposes. However, all I need/want to know about my dance partner I learn through dancing with her, not through talking with her. Actually having any spoken conversation is very distracting for me. But, hey, my purpose for dancing is not to "meet people" but to dance and enjoy music ... so I go ahead and dance. Does anyone know if it is considered rude to dance (in place) during those 30 chat seconds? I never had anyone tell me so, but perhaps people might just be too polite to complain. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Labor Day Festival: a complaint
As bad as it all is, the only way to prevent it from happening is to not accept such rude "invitations." But then you are blacklisted. The dynamic "rules" of behaviour emerge from chaos of human relationships, not from any written decrees. We can lament or we can adjust to make the best of any given situation. For example, I very much dislike the 20-30 second standing around on the floor and talking as the music starts as it is common in many milongas in Buenos Aires. So, if possible, I dance in place and start moving along when everyone else starts moving. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cadencia y ritmo, an example
As an example of cadencias, one can take just about any clip of a dance by Tete (and Silvia, but not necessarily), especially when he (they) dance a vals. For example full of cadencias (at least as Tete teaches and explains and dances them) see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMgv5kSRWZo especially two short ones starting at about 2:11. Does that fit your understanding of cadencias? ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Very Interesting Video
You know, whenever I see a message like this, I wish there was some indication from the author as to what makes the clip whatever attribute the author of the post assigned to the clip. What makes this clip very interesting for you, "m i l e s?" === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: m i l e s <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:01:34 PM Subject: [Tango-L] Very Interesting Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us-MpnYgQac ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tangozone (was dull, dull, dull)
I suppose one needs to "(re)define" this thing referred to here as "tangozone." I bet it means different things to different people. I can tell you that I too have been there, but I am usually far from being "relaxed, etc ..." As a matter of fact there usually is (1) no thinking involved, (2) plenty of creative tension, (3) excitement, and most of all (4) heightened sensitivity to everybody and everything around me. So, "tangozone" for me really means being one with everything around and inside of me and all the senses being on the high end of the scale. I do not expect to hear anyone else's definition to coincide with mine. The art of tango dancing for me includes discovery of what that "tangozone" means for my partner and trying to collaborate. Many times it just does not work since we may seek vastly different and perhaps incompatible things to put us in the "tangozone." However, it may be possible that in such cases things other than the "tangozone" can be pursued and come out of the dance very satisfied. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] song's name?
Well, am I the only seeing the credits page on the clip which says that the first song is "La melodía del corazón?" And is todotango web site wrongly labeling the same song as such? http://www.todotango.com/audio/wax/3840.wax Or, did I misunderstand the question? ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: marquerito tjanos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Friday, August 8, 2008 11:06:51 PM Subject: [Tango-L] song's name? hi all would anyone be able to figure out what the name of the first song is in the following youtube clip? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22ZkO6fQJ2Y&feature=related i recognize the last two but not the first one. a little frustrating... M ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango
The way I understand what Trini is talking about is that every dancer eventually (the sooner the better) finds his or her own body which then, to a large extent, forms the basis for his or her own style -- unique in time and space. We all draw from the same bag of technical and choreographic concepts, but given our unique physique, psyche, and ways to feel and interpret the music and connect with our parters, we dance our unique dance. In very general terms now, every dance instance is in its own category. Why even worry about categorizing it? What is gained by that? It is almost guaranteed that I will dance the same music differently with a different partner and/or in different time. Flexibility in interpretation is a bonus. Normal equals boring equals death. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: Joe Grohens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-l@mit.edu Cc: Joe Grohens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 1:19:29 PM Subject: [Tango-L] Social Tango Trini, Thank you for the informative reply. You wrote: > IMHO, not recognizing that you have a particular style is like not > accepting a part of yourself. Style is not something that is forced > upon one, it's is more like something discovered about yourself. What style of tango do you dance? Joe ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Different feeling in tango
- Original Message From: Sergio Vandekier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tango-L List Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:52:21 AM Subject: [Tango-L] Different feeling in tango > > > Jack says: "Don't we talk a lot about the feeling of tango. > I know it's very important to me [understatement!] and the > feeling I have when I watch a man and a woman is completely > different to when I watch a man and a man. They can both > be fabulous and very enjoyable, but different." Here's perhaps another angle of looking at the questions of feeling in tango. I mentioned before that I have recently learned how to really enjoy dancing as a "follower." After some thinking about it (because all of this discussion has actually inspired me to do that) I have some clues as to what's going on. It seems to me that, in general, part of my attraction to tango is due to the fact that it allows me to express my sensuality safely. I think that in dancing as a follower I have allowed myself to let my feminine side express its own sensuality. I am rather enjoying the opportunities to express the feeling of beauty from a softer, warmer side of life. I am not sure I know how to explain this well, I am just exploring this whole idea as I write. I can tell that the man I often practice with (most often together with our female partners), when he follows, he does not allow himself that same feminine, expressive avenue. He still dances with masculine expressiveness being dominant which feels totally different to me then dancing with a woman -- it feels more like sparring. However, when we exchange roles, I let go of my masculine side and let the feminine flourish. Quite a nice feeling. And that has nothing to do with the fact I am dancing with a man. On the other hand, one of my female partners often likes to practice leading with me. I can tell that she does "all the right moves" but her energy is still predominantly feminine. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it is quite different. I am not a bisexual man by any means, but am a firm believer that each one of us has those two components in us and have learned to enjoy my own feminine in tango dance as much as I do my masculine. Does that make any sense? Is it still tango? I will let "the authorities" decide on that. I know that when there are opportunities for me to dance with women in traditional roles, I will take them. If there aren't, I will welcome an opportunity to dance as a follower with a good leader regardless of the gender of the leader. If there is masculine energy present so much the better because it is complementary to the feminine which makes the whole experience more complete and enjoyable. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] "Would you like to lead or follow?"
Since about a year ago I started venturing into the "follow role" and, as I got better at it, I discovered that it is another world, it is almost like a different dance altogether, equally fabulously enjoyable. Every man should experience a wonderful dance of tango as a "follower" -- highly recommended. Nowadays I regularly practice with a woman who also likes switching roles and we often switch between the "roles" during a single dance -- changing the embrace on the fly and all without any interruption. It is a great experience. ...dubravko P.S. I use quotes to signify the use of quoted terms only for the lack of a better term and not meant literally. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Changes of direction
The way I look at it and teach it is that the so-called ochos are fundamentally examples of change of direction themselves whereby a movement in one direction is interrupted and the movement in the more or less opposite direction is initiated. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:37:55 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Changes of direction My understanding of the so called "Change of Direction" in it's original and simplest form, was a way of going from a back ocho step directly to a front ocho step, as well as the other way around. Typically from a Back ocho, one might do things like another back ocho, a side step (molinette), or a boleo. Similiarly, from a fromt ocho, the typical next steps are another front ocho, a side step, a boleo, or even a parada. Going from a front ocho step directly to a back ocho, would be an example of the change (as is a back ocho directly to a front ocho step). David ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] fwiw my 2 cents
- Original Message From: Mario [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... > I've been told that posting a link to a youtube video and not saying much is >NOT adding content to Tango-L ... > What is 'content' anyway? ..are 'changing directions' full of content >because they are full of words? Content to me would be for you to tell us what it is that you got ouf of it specifically when you watched a particular video clip. (BTW, most of the videos you point out I have seen before and so have, I am sure, many others.) But, I am interested in what you find in those clips for yourself. What questions might come to your mind and such. Then, we can have a possibly constructive discussion, rather than pontification. Does that make sense? BTW, I have studied many a video of Julio and Corina (both on Youtube and on their instructional DVDs and other sources), have admired much and adopted ideas I liked. If you are interested, I can tell you what specifically I liked and disliked. For example, I like very much their flow of dance. Their giros flow is nothing short of spectacular. I do not like thier embrace and posture. I saw a video my friend took of them dancing in a milonga in Buenos Aires and it was truly spectacular the way they danced in such confined quarters. I would never want to dance the way they dance, it is not my dance, but many ideas in their dance are beautiful, very useful, and wiorth studying. One more thing about Julio and Corina. they seem to dance all different dances pretty much the same (spectacularly technically well done) way. It is my experience that every dancer must find his or her body which will lead them to dance the best they can. No amount of imitation will give them that. Ideas - yes; copying - no. Some time ago I found out that what I thought to be a drawback (my height) I was able to turn into advantage and now I take full advantage of it and can thus give my partner a unique experience of dancing - not better, but unique. I still use the following quote as a motto: http://dubravko.kakarigi.net/graham.htm (you might need to copy and paste the link into your browser's URL window) === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Milonga - inspiration for the weekend
- Original Message From: Joe Grohens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-l@mit.edu Cc: Joe Grohens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 6, 2008 11:47:07 AM Subject: [Tango-L] Milonga - inspiration for the weekend > > most instructors (usa) cannot dance the Milonga > > Interesting. I did not know that! I learn so much from tango-l. WHAT? I mean, you can't be serious! Are you not mocking the original "inspiration for the weekend" post? I mean, I like and encourage Mario's asking questions and such and apparently wanting to learn, but he displayed absolutely no substantial knowledge so far on any subject of tango to make him any sort of authority to pass judgment like "most instructors (usa) cannot dance the Milonga..this guy can." It is not so much that Mario's judgment is right or wrong but that someone fairly new to the subject should not volunteer his or her opinions before paying the proper dues. There are those on this list who, with even less knowledge, can not discard the misjudgments and, in this respect, Mario is doing them a disfavor. This whole Mario thing sounds like one big joke. Mario, please do continue to participate but resist the urge to pass general sort of judgements unless they are clearly just personal preferences to which you are certainly entitled. ...dubravko P.S. I have communicated with Igor in private about that milonga clip and our views on it coincide. Since it was a private communication, it will remain so. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango who needs it?
- Original Message From: Nina Pesochinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... > But there is one thing that shows up in tango more than in any other part of > life, in my experience, and it is betrayal. Many different kinds. Is there a story here? I am curious ... ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] What is the name of the song in the video
Tigre Viejo, Osvaldo Fresedo === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: uja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:47:34 PM Subject: [Tango-L] What is the name of the song in the video Hi, Does someone know the name of the FIRST song and orchestra that Miguel Angel Zotto & Daiana Guspero are dancing to in the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJwWnzODU20 Thank you. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Why YouTube alone, isn't enough.
- Original Message From: Mario [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... > when I see a dancer whose style I'd like to emulate..the bag of tricks is > right there on YouTube..not that that makes it easy, it's just that; OK, > maybe if I learn these five movements, I can have as much fun as he is.. it's > a start. And herein lies the trick, Mario. You will really start dancing only when you discover your own style. Eventually, your own body will tell you what it is capable of doing. Not everything you see (on YouTube or elsewhere) is appropriate for you (and any particular partner you may be dancing with). Do you think that those dancers you see on YouTube, if they are any good, actually emulate anyone? I don't think so. To evolve into a good dancer, focus on basic technique (walk/steps, posture/balance, embrace, connection, and musicality) and not on any of the "movements" you see. Add to these technical elements some concepts like change of direction, change of front, cadencia, arrepentida, ways to switch between "parralel/normal" and "cross" system, using and sharing "tracks" (thanks Oscar), pausing, etc. With time, and it does take time - years, you will find yourself dancing "movements" which come from within yourself and your partner and not from YouTube or anyewhere else. Some you will like, some you will not and so you evolve. You will really not be dancing tango unless it comes from within, unless the "movements" are generated by the music (taking into account conditions on the dance floor as well as your partner, of course). Watching video clips can serve as an inspiration, though, it can give you ideas, but do not try emulating them, you will most likely not be able to really do it and will waste your time and get frustrated. Be patient with yourself and dance, dance, dance, practice, practice, practice, listen to the music, listen, listen ... and have fun doing it. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Alberto Dassieu
- Original Message From: Mario [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... > Anytme that I can find a new video on this guy, I'm going to post it. Frankly Mario, I think that in this clip Alberto's posture and footwork are way below average. ... > Lots and lots of pauses in this slooo tango..would it be ok to dance like >this with most follows here in the US? He seems to wait and wait. His waiting is really not waiting, as in "doing nothing." There could be lots of dancing happening while it seems like "nothing going on" to those watching. > Would that be un nerving to some follows? I am sure it would be to some. At a recent Chicago mini tango festival. I had the overall best tanda with a woman who let me know at the very beginning with her body language that she preferred the slow and deliberate, very expressive movements filled with loads of emotional tension. From then on it was heaven. (And of course we moved to the middle in order not to disturb others and no, we did not dance the "nuevo" or show tango.) When the tanda was over, I told her that that was the best dance I had for the whole weekend -- she thanked me that I created the space for her to express herself in her own way. The whole thing was enormously satisfying for both of us. Every dancer is different, hopefully. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Middle of the floor
Have you ever seen Tete dance in "line of dance" How would you classify his dancing? I do not particularly care to classify it as anything at all, but it seems that there is a tendency to imply that those who dance in the middle of the floor are not good dancers. Not necessarily so. The only obvious thing is that they, for one reason or another, just do not follow line of dance. And that's just fine with me as long as they do not interfere with the line of dance where I like to be most of the time. A few weeks ago I was asked to dance at an afternoon milonga by someone I never saw dance before and I said sure - I just really wanted to dance. It turned out that for some readon she and I just could not fit well in the traditional, close embrace, line-of-dance sort of a dance. So, we drifted toward the middle where we could experiment a bit without bothering anyone. From then on I had a great dance with her. I am so happy I did not feel forced to fit into a line-of-dance where we did not belong. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] More Nuevo bashing. Why??
I am curious Mario (and others of like mind), what exactly is it that you do not like about the so-called Tango Nuevo? I know that many object to the apparent lack of musicality exhibited by tango-nuevo dancers (absolutely not inherently true in my mind), some object to many tango-nuevo dancers not observing dance floor etiquette (likewise, not special to tango nuevo). What else? There are many really bad dancers in all dancing and not that many good ones. However, we all have the right to our own expression, don't we? I know, I know, but that does not give us the right to disturb others in enjoying their own right, etc. etc. I have seen classic dancers and nuevo dancers co-existing on the same floor rather nicely, however. A beautifully danced "nuevo" -- to some of Libedinsky's music, for example -- can be very poetic, artistic. and romantic. And it can feel really wonderful -- the interplay between the partners, the whole expanded way of dance conversation. I believe that it takes quite a skill to dance tango-nuevo well. I also believe that many shift to it from the start mistakenly believing that it is easier to dance that way. etc. etc. There are many reasons why people drift to it or simply choose to dance it, including myself who is just scratching the surface in that area. Is it possible that those who "bash" tango nuevo never looked at it with open eyes and open heart and open mind? I think that this may be an age old dynamic where the followers of old, established forms have hard time accepting the legitimacy of the new explorations. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 3:54:39 PM Subject: [Tango-L] More Nuevo bashing. Why?? Hi David, you're right it is unseemly and unkind. I have to confess that I have a really strong negative feeling towards all that is Nuevo. I too am a close embrace dancer and if Nuevo takes over the Milongas ..I quit dancing. its as simple as that ...I would just as soon cha cha or salsa...and Tango is my passion.. so, what am I to do..pretend it's nice??? I hate it..I don't even like to look at it, let alone be on the same dance floor with it...why such an inability to 'understand' the negativity?? OK there it is and here I am..out there in all of my non nice ugliness..I started off wanting to make this a nicer post but why hide the truth..I hope others won't hate me and I hope Tango L.. won't punish me...hey, maybe I can be cured?? Maybe I need some mental adjustments?? sincerely but unkindly Mario - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Ladies Leading
I danced tango with my daughter a couple of years ago when I was 56 and she was 32 ( we live far apart and do not have a chance to dance together more frequently) and it was extremely emotional and beautiful for both of us. In many ways, it was even more beautiful than dancing with someone else because of that added dimension. The other day, during a practice, I danced as a follower with a male friend of mine. And that dance had its beautiful moments for me too. So, I suppose the bottom line for me is that tango dance is about beauty and ways to discover, create, and share beauty. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] "Hiding" weight changes
Agreed! It is certainly possible to change weight without the lady noticing it. It is also possible, alhough more difficult, to fake a weight change thus inviting the lady to change weight without the man doing it and thus change from/to cross to/from parallel system. Great fun! === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tango-L Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 4:20:17 PM Subject: [Tango-L] "Hiding" weight changes --- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've always believed that the man should change weight so that the lady doesn't even feel it. If she does feel it, she should follow it unless the man prevents that in some way, eg. 'suspension'. --- ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] tango music
Is there an e-mail list with the focus on tango music? Thank you. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Speak up if you are uncomfortable
Without seemingly trying to minimize the problem, let me point out that it is not only the male (teachers) who may be abusive. Please let us not lose sight of the fact that sexual harassment and abuse come from all directions. I am speaking out of personal experience both as a child and as an adult. Stay vigilant and do not tolerate it! ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] leading cruzada
I actually think that woman's cross with all the possiblities and variations is the most beautiful and sensual of "steps." I love to dance with a woman who lets me completely guide her cross, including the degree of tiwst (if any -- prior, during and after crossing) and especially the speed of it and the timing of the weight transfer, pausing and the cadence. It is indeed a very sexy step. It reflects total communication and unity in diversity. Just look at all those various cross situations which Gavito and Marcela used to create. I mean they all all so absolutely delicious, full of suspense, expectation, and passion! ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Apology
Mario: Yes, indeed. Your post was a real shocker. But, why would you stop posting? I personally welcome your probing questions, your enthusiasm, and yes, you naivete at times. Just leave out the foul language and we are okay. There is another point to be made about Astrid's observation, however. Not only is it that the feet are not "the only thing happening," but they are indeed happening (in social dancing) only to facilitate something else, which is the bodies which dance and move about - it is not the other way around. Consequently by focusing on the footwork, one who is not experienced can easily miss the whole dance. When I teach and demonstrate something, either with a group or individually, I insist on folks paying attention to my torso (including my embrace) and my hipwork (is there such a word? like footwork?) and only secondarily to my legs and feet ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Friday, April 4, 2008 10:51:47 AM Subject: [Tango-L] Apology Yes, Astrid's post reads differently this morning. What she is saying about the feet not being the only thing happening makes a lot of sense. And I wish that she hadn't kept introducing my name as an example of a dummie. It just was the wrong thing for me to be reading at that moment and I went ballistic. So, my apologies to the list and to Astrid. I won't be posting as I did in the past but I will check in from time to time. thanks - You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Are they having as much fun dancing this as I am watching????
- Original Message From: Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:01:47 PM Subject: [Tango-L] Are they having as much fun dancing this as I am watching > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KJN1UKfMgI O.K. this is my last post of the > day...but once again It is indeed a very nice dance and, in my opinion, it is not choreographed. And here is why I say that: all, or the great majority of it is "leadable," some sequences are messy, they know each other and have things in their own "bag of tricks" and so can quickly get into a practiced sequence on the spot. Incidentally, while I do like Javier generally (don't have an opinion about Andrea), for my taste, his upper body is too stiff at all times. He rarely turns his head in the direction of the step (as Gavito does -- or did, peace be upon him -- all the time, for example). This makes the dance robot-like - perfect in execution, but with very little expression. Again, just my own preference. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Where are her feet and where is her weight?
Okay Mario: First, dancing tango is not a cerebral activity. If you end up thinking what you are doing or what you will or want to do as you dance, it's already too late and you loose the impact of both the music and your partner. So, where is the magic trick? It is in dancing, dancing, dancing and experiencing the dance, number 1. I hope you do not expect to become a good dancer in six months or any predetermined amount of time. Everyone is different. Continuous dancing will let you start feeling where your partner is at all times without thinking about it. There are times when you will feel ambiguous about where she is with her balance so then you make one or two little mini steps or just change your own weight to (re)establish the balance or knowledge of where she is exactly. Never, ever rush into a step without being reasonably sure that your partner can actually participate in it. If you are not sure, do those mini steps or weight changes (btw, I consider those to be steps), so that if she is not on the foot you think she is on, you will feel it without crashing. It is of crucial importance to know both where your partner's axis and her "free" foot are (as someone else mentioned here). Perhaps you will feel a need to start dancing some more complicated sequences or advanced steps fearing that your parters will get bored. Don't! Make sure that you dance to the music from the get-go. Add bits to your dance as you improve, but do not rush. Just about any dancer worth dancing with will appreciate you dancing musically even if in a very simple way. If you dance to the music with pausing (by all means do pause when music asks for it, but pausing does not equal stopping) every dance will be different because every tango is different from the next. Even if you "just walk," there is plenty of possibilities in just walking (change of front, change of direction) to make it interesting. Number 2, do not "plan" a "sequence" as you dance. On a crowded floor you will almost never be able to dance it anyway. As a related notion, do not concern yourself with what you want to do, but rather what you'd like your partner to do. Then make it possible by placing yourself adequately.Remember that in tango, from the outside, it is the woman who shines and you support it. But, by all means make sure that she is comfortable in your arms--no surprises until you are sufficiently good to make novel steps so natural for you partner so that they are no longer surprises. Number 3, practice on your own, do over and over the exercises which improve your balance under various conditions (these are not steps but exercises). This is like doing scales for a musician. Those exercises are done daily regardless of your overall level of dancing. Muscles eventually learn what to do to put your body in a desired position. Perhaps some day I will videotape various exercises I do on my own whenever I have a chance--sometimes adding new ideas to them--and share with the list ... Number 4, listen to lots of tangos music all the time you can. This will help you build up, what I call, "tango attitude." And that "attitude" must be genuinely yours and will add to your appeal as a dance partner. It goes without saying that listening to music will also help you dance better to it. There is more but gotta stop at some point. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Not leading vs.leading the cross
Okay, now that this discussion is quite nice and respectful of different views, let me put in my two centavos... Here is how I see those and related things. In principle, we dance tango with our bodies/torsos -- not with our legs or other parts (I hope you do not understand this as me saying that we leave those other parts at the table :-). So a leg moves as a result of the torso moving (or sometimes in preparation for a torso movement, mostly true for men -- although, even then the beginning of the movement is done my torso). The foot is placed at the optimal place on the floor so that a dynamic balance is maintained. In chest-to-chest embrace sort of dancing, the two torsos move as one. The initiation of the move is usually done by the man. The consequence of this paradigm is that the woman will (or has a good opportunity to) cross (the kind where her left leg ends up in front of the right, her left foot to the right of her right foot--although, the same holds true for all other cross situations) because her torso is moving in such a direction that makes it, the cross, the most comfortable and natural step. In that context, ultimately the cross step happens as a result of the "invitation to cross" and is not made because it is some kind of a rule. Of course, there are many variations on this theme. There is also much to be said about the energy (not only the kinetic kind) that a movement projects and is felt that also hopefully affects where the leg/foot goes. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] heel / Toe
I was waiting and waiting for this subject to go away, but it wouldn't. So, I've got to say my piece. It'salmost as if those who are preoccupied with this so-called "toe/heel"dilemma really do not wish to dance but only to make that perfect step.Too many rules, folks! Whenever I hear "you should always dosuch and such" and a step or a part of a step or a foot position istalked about I cringe. The only "always" I can stand is "always let themusic, connection with your partner, and your heart guide you." I knowthis sounds so esoteric but is very real and you can't get it byimitating anyone, teacher or dancer alike. So, do not worry about is itthe toe or is it the heel first. For the time being do whatever isnatural or easier, but never ever loose the music and the partnerconnection. With time you will find out what works best for you andnurture it and polish it. Sure, there are reasons why in someinstances you will step toe first, or heel first, or with the fullsurface of your foot, for that matter. But, the best is if you discoverthose for yourself. Experiment, practice and you will find them in duetime if you look for them. Someone posted a link to tangoandchaos.org- great site. One of the dancers discussed there is Tete. Some of hissteps are really terrible, in my mind, if you focus on the "toe/heel"first thing (and many other things, as a matter of fact, like posture,embrace and all), but his dancing is superb. Why? He really dances themusical phrases and knows at any time exactly where his partner is andmakes her movements almost inevitable and easy. He dances candenciasand pausas like no one else I know. To be sure, not every woman likes to dance with him -- so I was told by some notable milongueras and given the reasons. So what? So,I suggest - music, your heart, and your partner first! Everything elsewill follow. No partner will refuse to dance with you because you gotoe/heel first, but those who like to dance to the music will not dancewith you if you do not (or at least I hope they won't so that you canlearn and focus on the right thing). The choice is yours. Boy, I did get carried away with this. I hope the list-gods will let it through. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
It seems like most people (including myself) stayed together for at least 4-5 songs. It was really hard to get further dancing after your "first set" - you just could not see accross the hall long enough to spot someone you'd want to dance with and establish a visual contact. So, at one point, I ended up asking a lady sitting next to me to dance just becuase I wanted to dance. That was a mistake!! and I couldn't get out of it gracefully and quickly enough. So long live tandas! What a great invention for social dancing. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Dubravko Kakarigi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; tango-l list Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 8:33:25 AM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas Dubravko - as far as you could tell, what were the dancers doing when Los Reyes del Tango were playing continuously? Did they stay together for (say) two dances and then split up, or what? John Ward Bristol, UK __ Find the answer to your questions - www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
This may be of interest. I recently attended two milongas in Buenos Aires with "Los Reyes del Tango" playing live - not the whole evening but they played for about two hours in total (it was great, by the way - their live performance is much, much better than their CDs). And while they played, there were no tandas, they just played streight through with one large break during which two or three CD-powered tandas were danced. While I loved dancing to (good) live music, I prefer tanda system especially where I am new and do no know the dancers in which case I usually ask to dance the last song of the tanda whereby we both do not have to suffer through more than one song if things just do not work for us. BTW, Los Reyes played just one milonga in the whole set, from what I can remember. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] tall men in close embrace
- Original Message From: Carol Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... > It is very difficult for many women to dance comfortably while being held in > the small of the back, particularly if the lead pulls his arm in towards > himself. When dancing with any woman in chest-to-chest embrace, it is very important for me to have full contact with my right arm, not to control but to sense my partner's movement better (there are those miniature muscle movements in your back which indicate even more what is happening than what the frontal contact can do on its own). I desire to envelope my partner's upper back as much as it is comfortable and possible given our relative body configurations. When there is a big height difference (I am taller), it is not physically possible for me to achieve that contact with my right hand high up in the immediate vicinity of my partner's right shoulder blade or on it, so, out of necessity I move it lower to wherever it needs to go to achieve as much comfortable contact as possible. But, I still do not apply any pressure, so I really do not "hold" my partner, but rather follow her back with my arm in order to achieve a full contact sensation. Also, if a woman is very slender, another necessity dictates me to lower my hand and arm -- lest I violate, what is usually considered an area reserved for personal, intimate hand contact only, I am sure you know what I mean. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Practice Practice Practice
One strategy which has helped me in more ways than one has been to have multiple practice partners - one for each practice day in the week, preferably. That way "she does not get bored" plus I had experience with a variety ot responses given different body types, etc. I still do about 15 minutes of various "walking" practice variations every time I practice regardless of how advanced the rest of the practice may be - it's like doing scales. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Weight change [was Pointers Please]
What I find full of additional interesting possiblities is to invite weight change and not do it myself. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Why Tango?
Music makes me dance and the dance allows me to improvisationally co-create beauty with another human being and be "in the moment" - which seems to last forever when it happens. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] bad Nuevo and the future
Some of the discussion on this subject has been quite interesting. Let me add that, in my view, there are bad and good "classic" tango dancers as well as bad and good "nuevo" tango dancers. I think that those who come down so hard on one or the other have not really experienced it when it is great. I love to see all styles when danced well and when I can tell that the dance is not mechanical (this can and does happen with the "classic" as well as with the "nuevo"). I think that to dance "nuevo" well and to feel its power takes enormous amount of skill and musicality not any less than the "classic." For the time being, my focus is on the "chest-to-chest embrace" due to circumstances, but am eying and learning other styles as well (including the "canyengue" of the old).There is no doubt that the feeling is different in different styles, but that is a plus, in my view? ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] The basic 8 count
Right! and why not introduce very early on "change of front," which allows moving ahead in the line of dance without senselessly walking forward/back? This way you introduce early on a useful technique/concept which can be used over and over in all sorts of situations. It also introduces many other concepts with it. I stay away from any patterns, especially those which are not really usable on the dance floor. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: lenl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... > Why bother teaching a bad move if your going to have the student stop using > it? You can get the same effect by a side step holding a beat and continuing. > It's hard enough on the new student just trying to learn a move that he/she > willwant to keep. To me the basic 8 makes no sense. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Osvaldo Centeno -- his exhibition in El Beso during Encuentro Tango Milonguero
Original Message From: Janis Kenyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... > Osvaldo was overwhelmed by the response to his dancing on Monday night in El > Beso. He has never done an exhibition because he dances for himself, not an > audience. That explains it to some extent. He did not look to be in a mood to dance at all. He looked busy, tired, working hard. I mean the dance was good, but the impression was that something was wrong. Plus he left Ana Maria in the middle of the floor, both times, returning to his table quickly and leaving Ana Maria to go to her table by herself. Not a very good example for many of us attending Milongueando 2008. The high point for me was the dance of the elderly couple toward the end of the demo set who danced several dances including a milonga. I think they danced to "El Acomodo" which was absolutely fabulous. I wish I could remember their names. Perhaps Janis would know. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Osvaldo Centeno -- his exhibition in El Beso during Encuentro Tango Milonguero
Original Message From: Janis Kenyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... > Osvaldo was overwhelmed by the response to his dancing on Monday night in El > Beso. He has never done an exhibition because he dances for himself, not an > audience. That explains it to some extent. He did not look to be in a mood to dance at all. He looked busy, tired, working hard. I mean the dance was good, but the impression was that something was wrong. Plus he left Ana Maria in the middle of the floor, both times, returning to his table quickly and leaving Ana Maria to go to her table by herself. Not a very good example for many of us attending Milongueando 2008. The high point for me was the dance of the elderly couple toward the end of the demo set who danced several dances including a milonga. I think they danced to "El Acomodo" which was absolutely fabulous. I wish I could remember their names. Perhaps Janis would know. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Marcela
Does anyone know what Marcela Duran is doing these days? === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Villa Urquiza style
I just realized that Tango-L only lets simple text through. Sorry about that. Here are the links: Origins of Villa Urquiza Style - Finito, Portalea, Balmaceda http://youtube.com/watch?v=D7HmCGjYRYE Tango Villa Urquiza http://youtube.com/watch?v=LGTQ6pBYRsk Ramiro Gigliotti Villa Urquiza Style Tango http://youtube.com/watch?v=aXU9nojcFQo === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: Dubravko Kakarigi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Monday, February 4, 2008 5:45:06 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Villa Urquiza style Take a look at: Origins of Villa Urquiza Style - Finito, Portalea, Balmaceda Also: Tango Villa Urquiza Ramiro Gigliotti Villa Urquiza Style Tango and make of it what you can and/or wish. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Villa Urquiza style
Take a look at: Origins of Villa Urquiza Style - Finito, Portalea, Balmaceda Also: Tango Villa Urquiza Ramiro Gigliotti Villa Urquiza Style Tango and make of it what you can and/or wish. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Belle Epoque apartments for temporary rental in Buenos Aires
- Original Message From: Tom Stermitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... > It is quite centrally located. Easy to walk downtown or to several > milongas. Not easy to walk to Nino Bien, but you probably want > to use a taxi to that neighborhood. Corrientes is one block over. Talking about milongas in the neighborhood - El Arranque, an excellent afternoon milonga, is just three blocks away on the other side of Corrientes. Also, there are several places within easy walking distance of Ayachucho y Lavalle where various good teachers teach group classes. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Apts?...Belle Epoque
If you are talking about the ones on Ayacucho and Lavalle owned by Elizabeth, apart from occasional unforeseen snag which can happen anywhere, I have had nothing but the best experience. As a matter of fact I am returning there in two weeks. Location is perfect - I love it. ...dubravko P.S. This advert paid in full by . just kidding :-) === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: Jerry Combs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:27:57 AM Subject: [Tango-L] Apts?...Belle Epoque Does anybody know anything about these apartments? I've heard several unhappy stories that they are not what they seem. I'm curious because a tanguera friend from Minnesota is planning her first trip to BA and saw the ads for these places on Tango-A. Good deal, bad deal -any feedback would be much appreciated. saludos, Jerry Yahoo! Encuentros. Ahora encontrar pareja es mucho más fácil, probá el nuevo Yahoo! Encuentros http://yahoo.cupidovirtual.com/servlet/NewRegistration ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] 'Milonga is a guy thing?'
Milonga is a very different dance from tango, not only in speed/tempo, emphasis, "steps", figures, etc. but also, and more importantly, in the nature of the embrace and the overall body movement and general attitude. Many currently recognized male milonga dancers (like Casas, El Flaco, Rodriguez) while all displaying superb technique, are too smooth for my liking. Good thing there is no "central committee" on milonga (or on tango, for that matter), but milonga dancing is different from tango dancing in some fundamental ways. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] 'Milonga is a guy thing?'
Milonga is a very different dance from tango, not only in speed/tempo, emphasis, "steps", figures, etc. but also, and more importantly, in the nature of the embrace and the overall body movement and general attitude. Many currently recognized male milonga dancers (like Casas, El Flaco, Rodriguez) while all displaying superb technique, are too smooth for my liking. Good thing there is no "central committee" on milonga (or on tango, for that matter), but milonga dancing is different from tango dancing in some fundamental ways. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Leaving the floor
I almost exclusively use three-song tandas, sometimes even two songs per tanda if they are longer songs. I try not have a tanda last more than 9 minutes max. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tango-L@mit.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2008 3:16:37 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Leaving the floor Deby Novitz wrote: >>Keeping this in mind, we still dance all 4 songs in a tanda. Men do not walk off the floor after the second song because "followers are waiting." They dance the whole tanda with the woman they invited.<< Some of the djs in the United States have begun reducing the length of tandas to three songs to promote/enable more rotation between partners. I'm interested in opinions about the desirablity of such an approach. With best regards, Steve ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] any advice for bad shoulders?
Here's what I do while dancing to help resolve the problem, for whatever it's worth. When I feel my partner consistently pushing off of my left arm (especially during giros to the right or back ochos), I first need to make sure I am not consistently throwing my partner off balance and then if I am not, I will just let my left hand go momentarily limp in non-critical moments in order to deny that unnecessary support. Most get the message. When teaching or practicing I will often practice open embrace my left arm and my partner's right arm down and behind or connecting in a open-palm-to-open-palm fashion with fingers extending straight up. The latter is a good exercise in its own right illustrating and practicing joint responsibility for maintaining the frame and hands connecting in the middle as much as possible. A more difficult problem to solve for me while dancing is my partner's "hanging" on my right shoulder. What I would do, is first make sure I am not lifting my right shoulder causing the imbalance and the "hanging" that way and, if not, "straighten out" my shirt (of whatever garment I may be wearing) on my right shoulder between dances. That works many times. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tango List Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 6:41:45 AM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] any advice for bad shoulders? Thanks Carol that's what I always say if a new partner pushes too hard. Often the girl is quite relieved and says that someone told her to do that. I've now identified an individual in our Tango community who is telling girls to do this. But he's not a teacher and he's not one of my students so I don't see what I can do about it. Anybody have any ideas? Keith, HK On Mon Dec 24 12:41 , Carol Shepherd sent: >How about saying to the follow, "I have an injured shoulder, please try >not to use too much resistance with your right arm?" Not everyone can >make this adjustment but some can/will. > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> I have had prolonged bouts with bursitis in both shoulders, as well as >> small tears in my rotator cuff. I work with a trainer to strengthen >> and protect my shoulders as much as possible - but sometimes, esp. >> after a long night of leading or dancing with a follower who pushes too >> hard - my left shoulder really hurts. I was wondering if any other >> leaders have this problem and/or any suggestions? >> >> thanks >> b ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] A comparison that works - was Re: tell me why someone can not stand comparison of a dancer to a musical instrument
If I wanted to compare, I would compare certain aspects of tango to going to a park and throwing a frisbee back and forth with a friend. If you think about it, I am sure you'll find many similarities. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] tell me why someone can not stand comparison of a dancer to a musical instrument
This is getting to be really amazing to me. Why is it so hard to accept the following: 1. If someone says to me, I do not like being called or compared to such-and-such for whatever reason or no reason at all but just pure dislike, I just should not do it, if for no other reason, for the respect of someone's wishes, regardless of your original motivation - I could find another term/comparison that works, if I really need one, 2. I do not care how one couches it, but an instrument is an object manipulated or operated by an agent for a purpose. In this process, the instrument has no voice. The agent is designing and applying the process, the same agent may be also designing the instrument, the agent is moreover selecting the goals for the process - instrument has no say whatsoever but to behave according to the agent's designs. Wow! Apply that to tango now. Why not dance with a rubber doll or something instead? No doubt that a musician needs to understand the instrument and play it the way it needs to be played, but that's besides the point - the instrument is still an object - no wishes, no desires, no soul, no creativity, nothing, just beauty, either in and of itself or in the hands of a skillful player. Wow! You know, years back I dated this lady who used to call me a "stud." I resented that and after she repeated that a few times and I explained to her why that was really not a compliment to me. She had no problems accepting my wishes and, while she certainly did not mean anything bad by attaching that term to me, and meant is a compliment, she never ever used it again. She was sensitive and non-judgmental enough to just accept my wishes. Am I making this clear? I would love to engage in discussing men's-women's ways in general, but that is not subject of this interest group. I suppose I wrote those lines above in order to share my amazement with some of the views which differ so much from mine that they deserve comments. I do not mean to change anyone's mind or to prove what is "right" or what is "wrong." ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: Igor Polk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: tango-L@mit.edu Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 1:00:09 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] tell me why someone can not stand comparison of a dancer to a musical instrument Dear Anna. If you think that: " We realize men like to use well-known, often cited, worn-out metaphors like the one with the violin. This might be linked with their drive to play (with toys, brushes, violins, whatever), "homo ludens"." If you think that a violin and a brush is the same, and if you think that a comparison of a dancer to a violin or to a brush has the same meaning, And if you think that a musician is the same like a boy or like a yard-keeper, I have a conclusion that you have no idea 1. What music is about, 2. What it make to be a good musician ( all musicians are good, otherwise they are not ) 3. You dance tango rather like a broom than a violin. Buy, Where is my guitar... Igor Polk PS. I do not know guys. You are talking here about Feelings... Creativity, ...Freedom... bla-bla-bla. And can not see behind the obvious. Do not understand a poeting comparison, Do not see meaing in abstract. That tells me way more about your abilities as dancers than all your postings combined. Gosh, why did I get to this list ! - Girls, you are violins ( or berimbau ) in tango either you want it or not ! Just pray to get in the hands of a talented musician. Otherwise you will squeak, scream and cry like you do it now. God save you and Merry Christmas ! ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] tell me why someone can not stand comparison of a dancer to a musical instrument
In addition to all the reasons already stated (I especially concur with the statements essentially saying that feelings can not be argued away as in "you should not feel that way"), using the violin comparison is inadequate because it does not even apply to tango (or dancing in general). In any dance that I know, and especially so in tango, there are two creative subjects, two actors interacting through dance, which involves body, mind, and soul. In playing any instrument that I know, there is a subject using body, mind, and soul and an object which only has body - no mind and no soul. We do not desire one of the partners in tango to have and to use no mind and no soul, do we? (Some may argue that some instruments, like perhaps a Stradivarius violin, have a soul - certainly not a mind - but I believe that to be a fallacy. Another subject for a different interest group.) ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Igor Polk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tango-L@mit.edu Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 11:50:32 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] tell me why someone can not stand comparison of a dancer to a musical instrument Igor, The main issue wasn't comparing a person to an instrument so much as it was the relationship between two people. In the violin thread, it was about the man using the woman. Trini de Pittsburgh --- Igor Polk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Please, tell me why someone can not stand comparison of a > dancer to a > musical instrument. > > I think, technically and educationally it is a perfect > association. > > It should be something cultural, which I miss. What is > going on? > Please, help me to understand. > > Privately if you want. > > Please, it is important for me. > > Igor Polk > > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh’s most popular social dance! http://patangos.home.comcast.net/ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Juan D'Arienzo -- Still the King
Thanks for the post, Janis (and for others as well). Here's a direct link for Pedro Ochoa's article: http://www.10tango.com/interior/detalle_nota.php?idx=161&seccion=4 ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === - Original Message From: Janis Kenyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tango-L Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:15:04 PM Subject: [Tango-L] Juan D'Arienzo -- Still the King Article by Pedro Ochoa http://www.10tango.com/interior/detalle_nota.php Nobody likes to follow rules. It is much better to break them. But there is one thing that tops breaking rules: making them. D'Arienzo was a rule maker. In 1935 he invented the orchestra for tango dancing. Just at a time when it was needed. And he kept his success for forty years. The details of what Juancito's process of discovery of his identity was like are lost in the mists of time. It is certain that D'Arienzo would have preferred this loss of memories of this transition, so that his orchestra would be forever remembered as an expression of an eternal essence that does not change or evolve. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks
I find men not dancing at the milongas after a while when they realize that they do not know how to dance and the expectations are high. Many men try practicas but usually better women dancers do not go to practicas (they may think they do not need them - wrong) to help develop those men who really want to learn to dance so they do not grow and eventually drop off. Mind you, given comparable backgrounds it takes much longer to develop a good male dancer than does a female, in my view. So, go to practicas, dance generously with those men who want to learn, give them constructive feedback, and soon you will have more men to dance with at the milongas. I think it is way more difficult to become a good male tango dancer than female one, given their traditional tango roles; although, when both dancers are good, it is the female usually who shines, which is just fine with me. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] To lead or not to lead
A cross, which can happen in many, many situations and in many ways, is for me, as a man, the most beautiful and sensual moment in tango if done well. I absolutely love it when a woman allows me to co-design it, because then I can play with it, with its many elements. It is a moment of absolute unification of the two dancers - it is a bliss of tango for me, the most magical moment in its simple and yet so extraordinary beauty. Yes, you guessed it, I could go on and on talking about it, but I'd rather dance it. Anyone? === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
