[Texascavers] Karst Information Portal
George, According to the Karst Information Portal home page, grotto newsletters are soon to be withdrawn from open access. That seems like addressing the potential problem of location information with a sledgehammer. What's the point of having things on KIP if no one can get to them? Maybe they should be put into a special members only area where NSS members can log in with their NSS number and some other credentials to see the newsletters. I've been actively promoting editors to make their newsletters available through KIP and many have agreed. Now that all looks like it might have been for naught. :-( Mark ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Honey Creek Cave Tank Hauls, Jan 2015
Cavers, The Honey Creek Cave Tank Haul is almost here and I only have 15 people committed for both weekends combined. We need tons more than that. If you are committed to come, I need you to please contact me by email or fb message with the dates you will be there. We need as much help as we can get and I need to know we can count on you to be there. Please contact me asap if you are coming! Spread the word. Hope everyone is getting their gear ready. You will want to have your best shoes, best lights, and best gear for this long haul. WETSUIT...its not too late to shop around for a good deal and everyone going into the cave must wear a wetsuit. You can buy them used from a dive shop, craigslist, or Play it Again Sports. You can buy them new from many places, good deals at Sierra Trading Post. You may also rent a wetsuit from a dive shop but you will want to wear clothes on the outside because if you ruin it, you pay full price. The water temperature is about 68 degrees. I recommend a full body wetsuit if you get cold and a farmer john if you run hot. Please don't hesitate to contact me for more information, Ellie 509-899-0007 Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/events/695975567146293/ On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Ellie Watson ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote: Attention Cavers The dates are set for the next Honey Creek Cave Tank Haul and we need your help to haul dive/cave camp gear on January 24th and January 31st. I am recruiting volunteers so please contact me off list with what dates you would like to participate. It's been less than a year since the last major exploration effort in Honey Creek and now the divers are back for more, this time with two extra divers. In 2015, Dr. Jean Krejca, James Brown, David Moore and Matt Turner will embark upon their journey to explore the furthest reaches of the cave and we will need even more help than before, like 50-60 people! We can use all types of skill and fitness levels if you are up to the challenge. At no point will you be underwater, diving or cave camping. Honey Creek Cave is the longest cave in Texas at over 20 miles long. The legendary Tank Haul trip includes walking, salamandering, crawling, and The Mud and The Crud. The trip is challenging but very fun. Some people have done the trip in and out in as few as 4 hours, others take their time and take up to 12 hours. Average pace takes 8-10 hours round trip. GEAR: Honey Creek Cave is a water cave and you will need a wetsuit and harness with d-ring to be lowered on cable down a 145ft man-made shaft. Bring a helmet and small pack for storing personal gear like lights, batteries plenty of water and snacks. I recommend wearing sturdy lace-up shoes, knee pads, elbow pads, and gloves. I also recommend storing supplies in a watertight container like a nalgene bottle. The packs of group gear shouldn't weigh more than 30 pounds. Come one weekend or both! Please don't hesitate to contact me for more information, Ellie 509-899-0007 Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/events/695975567146293/ ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal
Mark, My understanding is that the KIP is an international repository, so the member's only access limitation you suggest would have to be extended to all nation's National Speleological Association in order to be fair. Perhaps the NSS Archives Committee could be encouraged to set up a similar service but only for US cave-related organization's publications. Since the scanned newsletters are already in place on KIP, transferring those to that new local portal would seem to be a pretty simple process, and the collection could reside behind the NSS member paywall. RD From: Mark Minton via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:03 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal George, According to the Karst Information Portal home page, grotto newsletters are soon to be withdrawn from open access. That seems like addressing the potential problem of location information with a sledgehammer. What's the point of having things on KIP if no one can get to them? Maybe they should be put into a special members only area where NSS members can log in with their NSS number and some other credentials to see the newsletters. I've been actively promoting editors to make their newsletters available through KIP and many have agreed. Now that all looks like it might have been for naught. :-( Mark ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] [greater_houston_grotto] Support Texas Caves when Xmas shopping!
The link from the website provides a larger percentage donation, up to .05% I think. Smile is .005% but can also be used at same time as link from TCMA page. Thanks to all using these methods of donation. Linda Palit On Tuesday, December 2, 2014, Chris Lafferty via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Great info, Mallory. Is the relative donation to TCMA different if we use the Amazon link found on the TCMA website rather than Amazon Smile? I heard somewhere that SCCi encouraged shoppers to use their website link instead of Smile because they received a larger donation. Can anyone confirm? Chris Lafferty chris.laffer...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','chris.laffer...@gmail.com'); On Dec 2, 2014 12:59 PM, Mallory Mayeux mmay...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mmay...@gmail.com'); [greater_houston_grotto] greater_houston_gro...@yahoogroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','greater_houston_gro...@yahoogroups.com'); wrote: GAH! I just forgot to do this so it reminded me to tell everyone to do this. Some of you may use Amazon.com liberally when Xmas shopping. (I do). Did you know you can also shop at smile.amazon.com and help Texas caves? The following is a direct explanation of Smile from their website. When you shop at smile.amazon.com, you’ll find the exact same low prices, vast selection and convenient shopping experience as Amazon.com, with the added bonus that Amazon will donate a portion of the purchase price to your favorite charitable organization. You can choose from nearly one million organizations to support. The AmazonSmile Foundation will donate 0.5% of the purchase price from your eligible AmazonSmile purchases. The Texas Cave Management Association is a listed Amazon charitable organization. TCMA, as you know, owns Robber Baron, Whirlpool, Deep/Punkin and manages O9you know, the majority of the caves we've enjoyed this year. I recently ordered an LSU-themed dress and it came in exactly the same as if I'd ordered it on Amazon.com. It's totally legit and I strongly encourage all of you Amazon shoppers to support TCMA using the site! Just go to smile.amazon.com and it will ask you to pick a charity. Search Texas Cave Management Association and click on it. Have a great day! Mallory __._,_.___ -- Posted by: Mallory Mayeux mmay...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mmay...@gmail.com'); -- Reply via web post https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/greater_houston_grotto/conversations/messages/13480;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZm82YW9iBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMzMTI3NTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI1NDA1BG1zZ0lkAzEzNDgwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQxNzU0Njc1Mg--?act=replymessageNum=13480 • Reply to sender javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mmay...@gmail.com?subject%5Cx3dRe:+Support+Texas+Caves+when+Xmas+shopping!'); • Reply to group javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','greater_houston_gro...@yahoogroups.com?subject%5Cx3dRe:+Support+Texas+Caves+when+Xmas+shopping!'); • Start a New Topic https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/greater_houston_grotto/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMTl1MzFrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMzMTI3NTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI1NDA1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQxNzU0Njc1Mg-- • Messages in this topic https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/greater_houston_grotto/conversations/topics/13480;_ylc=X3oDMTM2cXVxMDl1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMzMTI3NTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI1NDA1BG1zZ0lkAzEzNDgwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQxNzU0Njc1MgR0cGNJZAMxMzQ4MA-- (1) Visit Your Group https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/greater_houston_grotto/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbGlrMXRhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMzMTI3NTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI1NDA1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQxNzU0Njc1Mg-- [image: Yahoo! Groups] https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYXM0YmJvBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzMzMTI3NTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI1NDA1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDE3NTQ2NzUy • Privacy https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html • Unsubscribe javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','greater_houston_grotto-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject%5Cx3dUnsubscribe'); • Terms of Use https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/ . __,_._,___ ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal
RD, It would be fine with me if any organization that wanted one could have a private members area. Once KIP got set up for that, it should be pretty simple to offer it to anyone. Still sort of defeats the purpose of open access, though. Generally speaking, cave location information is not considered particularly sensitive in most parts of the world. The U. S. seems to be especially concerned, perhaps occasionally justifiably so, but mostly I think it's just paranoia. Mark On Wed, December 10, 2014 10:19 am, R D Milhollin via Texascavers wrote: Mark, My understanding is that the KIP is an international repository, so the member's only access limitation you suggest would have to be extended to all nation's National Speleological Association in order to be fair. Perhaps the NSS Archives Committee could be encouraged to set up a similar service but only for US cave-related organization's publications. Since the scanned newsletters are already in place on KIP, transferring those to that new local portal would seem to be a pretty simple process, and the collection could reside behind the NSS member paywall. RD From: Mark Minton via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:03 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal George, According to the Karst Information Portal home page, grotto newsletters are soon to be withdrawn from open access. That seems like addressing the potential problem of location information with a sledgehammer. What's the point of having things on KIP if no one can get to them? Maybe they should be put into a special members only area where NSS members can log in with their NSS number and some other credentials to see the newsletters. I've been actively promoting editors to make their newsletters available through KIP and many have agreed. Now that all looks like it might have been for naught. :-( Mark ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal
I discovered that posting this morning, too. I think it's KIP that is overreacting by removing ALL grotto newsletters; the issue was just raised in the past few days by Huntsville, based on a member who discovered the KIP trove and worried about sensitive info in older issues. I'm not aware of any other recent complaints. I'm in their Yahoo group, and responded that they should instead redact any sensitive info (which I suspect is very little). It's a large chore, but easy enough to do. Most, if not all, of the 351 HG issues online were sent in by Windy City (Bill Mixon) and not HG, which may be the cause of the kerfuffle. I've written to KIP Liaison Todd Chavez, urging him to drag his feet on the removal until we can calm the waters. Hopefully we can preempt this, and your efforts (and Bill's and mine) will not have been in vain. On 10 Dec 2014 at 10:03, Mark Minton via Texascavers wrote: From: Mark Minton via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Date sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 10:03:45 -0500 Send reply to: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject:[Texascavers] Karst Information Portal George, According to the Karst Information Portal home page, grotto newsletters are soon to be withdrawn from open access. That seems like addressing the potential problem of location information with a sledgehammer. What's the point of having things on KIP if no one can get to them? Maybe they should be put into a special members only area where NSS members can log in with their NSS number and some other credentials to see the newsletters. I've been actively promoting editors to make their newsletters available through KIP and many have agreed. Now that all looks like it might have been for naught. :-( Mark -- Alex Sproul NSS 8086RL/FE Acting NSS Webmaster www.caves.org ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal
For whatever it's worth, I had nothing to do with sending Huntsville Grotto News issues to KIP. Haven't been in Windy City for 34 years. Does seem like a bit presumptuous for one grotto to submit another grotto's newsletters unless in cooperation with the other grotto. I've never been a secrecy type, but I can imagine that many people are worried about KIP in general. It does have a lot of publications containing cave locations, and will no doubt get more. For example, I have published lists (albeit pretty obsolete by now) of cave locations in Missouri and Alabama. Data like that are not protected by copyright. It is a great boon that these days one can find, say, the atomic weight of lanthanum in about 15 seconds without pulling a book from the shelf. But that also works for just about everything else. Get over it.-- Mixon Certainly the game is rigged: If you don't bet, you can't win. You may reply to the address this message (unless it's a TexasCavers list post) came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal
Mark and everyone, I've been traveling and haven't had the chance to check the KIP website. I called the KIP team to get the latest details but haven't been able to connect yet, so here is what I know so far. KIP does not post anything unless it is described as open access (available freely to all) or it has explicit permission, as it does from TSA to post the Texas Caver. As I understand, NSS gave permission for KIP to post many of its materials, which included some Pennsylvania newsletters in its library. Some Pennsylvania cavers saw their newsletters and complained. Word quickly spread. KIP immediately withdrew those materials and others provided by NSS. Currently the KIP team is verifying what material provided by NSS the NSS had authority to post and which needs permission of grottos, regions, etc. It is professionally and legally vital for KIP to have proper permission, so removing those publications is necessary until clear permission is in place. I encourage everyone who has legal access to publications to continue posting them to KIP. If there is information in a publication you consider sensitive, just specify it and it can be redacted. Some organizations post their materials immediately to KIP while others ask it not be posted for a specified period. Some want certain information redacted and some don't. The KIP team will work to meet the needs of the publishers. The idea of creating password-protection for the materials isn't practical. First, it is contrary to KIP's open access purpose. Second, KIP hosts publications from over 20 countries and even more organizations. Setting up password protection for their members isn't practical and best left to each organization to set up on its own on its own website if it wants such protection. In the worst case and some of the material does not reappear on KIP, first, don't blame KIP. Complain to the person or organization that published the material for not giving KIP permission to post it. Second, keep in mind that KIP has a private archive with scanned publications that it does not have permission to post. The KIP team is seeking permission for this material. Even where permission has been refused, KIP is designed for the long-term. KIP retains those digital files (which it can legally do as long as it doesn't distribute them) should the situation change some day. This has happened as organizations change priorities and publications go out of print (or the last copy is lost in a fire) and the publisher no longer sees any benefit in not freely posting their materials. If I learn anything more of relevance, I'll be sure to post it to this list. Anyone wishing to distribute this message to others is welcome to do so. George Sent from my mobile phone George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org Original message From: Mark Minton via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com Date: 2014/12/10 08:04 (GMT-07:00) To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal George, According to the Karst Information Portal home page, grotto newsletters are soon to be withdrawn from open access. That seems like addressing the potential problem of location information with a sledgehammer. What's the point of having things on KIP if no one can get to them? Maybe they should be put into a special members only area where NSS members can log in with their NSS number and some other credentials to see the newsletters. I've been actively promoting editors to make their newsletters available through KIP and many have agreed. Now that all looks like it might have been for naught. :-( Mark ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal
(Now at home and able to perhaps reply) Speaking on behalf of the NSS Board we agree with everything George Veni has posted below concerning KIP, its purpose, and how they handle their material. I must make one clarification though: the NSS did not sent any Grotto newsletters to KIP. The collections that are in question were donated by a Grotto and included their exchange newsletters. The did not and will not send our archive of newsletters (every Grotto is required to send copies to the NSS for our own library archive, so we have a lot) to KIP. We do not own the copyright to those publications, and as such will not distribute them for digital archiving. We did send our own publications for archiving, and due to the vast majority of it being performed from a large donation (it is a destructive process, and the donor understood the pages would be separated), we have found that there are a few, at most, that may have locations imbedded in the article. Since it is NSS policy, until we catch up with the rest of the world, to conceal locations we will mark over the relevant words/sentences and submit those for substitution. We too would encourage Grottos to submit their reviewed (and if necessary, redacted) archives to KIP. Archives of NSS Publications that have not been redacted may be found in our Members section: www.caves.org. Cave softly, Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of George Veni via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:38 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal Mark and everyone, I've been traveling and haven't had the chance to check the KIP website. I called the KIP team to get the latest details but haven't been able to connect yet, so here is what I know so far. KIP does not post anything unless it is described as open access (available freely to all) or it has explicit permission, as it does from TSA to post the Texas Caver. As I understand, NSS gave permission for KIP to post many of its materials, which included some Pennsylvania newsletters in its library. Some Pennsylvania cavers saw their newsletters and complained. Word quickly spread. KIP immediately withdrew those materials and others provided by NSS. Currently the KIP team is verifying what material provided by NSS the NSS had authority to post and which needs permission of grottos, regions, etc. It is professionally and legally vital for KIP to have proper permission, so removing those publications is necessary until clear permission is in place. I encourage everyone who has legal access to publications to continue posting them to KIP. If there is information in a publication you consider sensitive, just specify it and it can be redacted. Some organizations post their materials immediately to KIP while others ask it not be posted for a specified period. Some want certain information redacted and some don't. The KIP team will work to meet the needs of the publishers. The idea of creating password-protection for the materials isn't practical. First, it is contrary to KIP's open access purpose. Second, KIP hosts publications from over 20 countries and even more organizations. Setting up password protection for their members isn't practical and best left to each organization to set up on its own on its own website if it wants such protection. In the worst case and some of the material does not reappear on KIP, first, don't blame KIP. Complain to the person or organization that published the material for not giving KIP permission to post it. Second, keep in mind that KIP has a private archive with scanned publications that it does not have permission to post. The KIP team is seeking permission for this material. Even where permission has been refused, KIP is designed for the long-term. KIP retains those digital files (which it can legally do as long as it doesn't distribute them) should the situation change some day. This has happened as organizations change priorities and publications go out of print (or the last copy is lost in a fire) and the publisher no longer sees any benefit in not freely posting their materials. If I learn anything more of relevance, I'll be sure to post it to this list. Anyone wishing to distribute this message to others is welcome to do so. George Sent from my mobile phone George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org Original message From: Mark Minton via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com Date: 2014/12/10 08:04 (GMT-07:00) To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal George, According to the Karst
Re: [Texascavers] [greater_houston_grotto] Support Texas Caves when Xmas shopping!
Linda, does the TCMA have any numbers as to how this has helped? Donations last year vs YTD this year? Thanks! Charles On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Linda Palit via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: The link from the website provides a larger percentage donation, up to .05% I think. Smile is .005% but can also be used at same time as link from TCMA page. Thanks to all using these methods of donation. Linda Palit On Tuesday, December 2, 2014, Chris Lafferty via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com wrote: Great info, Mallory. Is the relative donation to TCMA different if we use the Amazon link found on the TCMA website rather than Amazon Smile? I heard somewhere that SCCi encouraged shoppers to use their website link instead of Smile because they received a larger donation. Can anyone confirm? Chris Lafferty chris.laffer...@gmail.com On Dec 2, 2014 12:59 PM, Mallory Mayeux mmay...@gmail.com [greater_houston_grotto] greater_houston_gro...@yahoogroups.com wrote: GAH! I just forgot to do this so it reminded me to tell everyone to do this. Some of you may use Amazon.com liberally when Xmas shopping. (I do). Did you know you can also shop at smile.amazon.com and help Texas caves? The following is a direct explanation of Smile from their website. When you shop at smile.amazon.com, you’ll find the exact same low prices, vast selection and convenient shopping experience as Amazon.com, with the added bonus that Amazon will donate a portion of the purchase price to your favorite charitable organization. You can choose from nearly one million organizations to support. The AmazonSmile Foundation will donate 0.5% of the purchase price from your eligible AmazonSmile purchases. The Texas Cave Management Association is a listed Amazon charitable organization. TCMA, as you know, owns Robber Baron, Whirlpool, Deep/Punkin and manages O9you know, the majority of the caves we've enjoyed this year. I recently ordered an LSU-themed dress and it came in exactly the same as if I'd ordered it on Amazon.com. It's totally legit and I strongly encourage all of you Amazon shoppers to support TCMA using the site! Just go to smile.amazon.com and it will ask you to pick a charity. Search Texas Cave Management Association and click on it. Have a great day! Mallory __._,_.___ -- Posted by: Mallory Mayeux mmay...@gmail.com -- Reply via web post https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/greater_houston_grotto/conversations/messages/13480;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZm82YW9iBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMzMTI3NTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI1NDA1BG1zZ0lkAzEzNDgwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQxNzU0Njc1Mg--?act=replymessageNum=13480 • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/greater_houston_grotto/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMTl1MzFrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMzMTI3NTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI1NDA1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQxNzU0Njc1Mg-- • Messages in this topic https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/greater_houston_grotto/conversations/topics/13480;_ylc=X3oDMTM2cXVxMDl1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMzMTI3NTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI1NDA1BG1zZ0lkAzEzNDgwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQxNzU0Njc1MgR0cGNJZAMxMzQ4MA-- (1) Visit Your Group https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/greater_houston_grotto/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbGlrMXRhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMzMTI3NTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI1NDA1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQxNzU0Njc1Mg-- [image: Yahoo! Groups] https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYXM0YmJvBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzMzMTI3NTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI1NDA1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDE3NTQ2NzUy • Privacy https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/ . __,_._,___ ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal
Wm, Thanks for the correction, elaboration, and support. George Sent from my mobile phone George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org Original message From: Wm Shrewsbury via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com Date: 2014/12/10 16:09 (GMT-07:00) To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal (Now at home and able to perhaps reply) Speaking on behalf of the NSS Board we agree with everything George Veni has posted below concerning KIP, its purpose, and how they handle their material. I must make one clarification though: the NSS did not sent any Grotto newsletters to KIP. The collections that are in question were donated by a Grotto and included their exchange newsletters. The did not and will not send our archive of newsletters (every Grotto is required to send copies to the NSS for our own library archive, so we have a lot) to KIP. We do not own the copyright to those publications, and as such will not distribute them for digital archiving. We did send our own publications for archiving, and due to the vast majority of it being performed from a large donation (it is a destructive process, and the donor understood the pages would be separated), we have found that there are a few, at most, that may have locations imbedded in the article. Since it is NSS policy, until we catch up with the rest of the world, to conceal locations we will mark over the relevant words/sentences and submit those for substitution. We too would encourage Grottos to submit their reviewed (and if necessary, redacted) archives to KIP. Archives of NSS Publications that have not been redacted may be found in our Members section: www.caves.orghttp://www.caves.org. Cave softly, Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of George Veni via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:38 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Karst Information Portal Mark and everyone, I've been traveling and haven't had the chance to check the KIP website. I called the KIP team to get the latest details but haven't been able to connect yet, so here is what I know so far. KIP does not post anything unless it is described as open access (available freely to all) or it has explicit permission, as it does from TSA to post the Texas Caver. As I understand, NSS gave permission for KIP to post many of its materials, which included some Pennsylvania newsletters in its library. Some Pennsylvania cavers saw their newsletters and complained. Word quickly spread. KIP immediately withdrew those materials and others provided by NSS. Currently the KIP team is verifying what material provided by NSS the NSS had authority to post and which needs permission of grottos, regions, etc. It is professionally and legally vital for KIP to have proper permission, so removing those publications is necessary until clear permission is in place. I encourage everyone who has legal access to publications to continue posting them to KIP. If there is information in a publication you consider sensitive, just specify it and it can be redacted. Some organizations post their materials immediately to KIP while others ask it not be posted for a specified period. Some want certain information redacted and some don't. The KIP team will work to meet the needs of the publishers. The idea of creating password-protection for the materials isn't practical. First, it is contrary to KIP's open access purpose. Second, KIP hosts publications from over 20 countries and even more organizations. Setting up password protection for their members isn't practical and best left to each organization to set up on its own on its own website if it wants such protection. In the worst case and some of the material does not reappear on KIP, first, don't blame KIP. Complain to the person or organization that published the material for not giving KIP permission to post it. Second, keep in mind that KIP has a private archive with scanned publications that it does not have permission to post. The KIP team is seeking permission for this material. Even where permission has been refused, KIP is designed for the long-term. KIP retains those digital files (which it can legally do as long as it doesn't distribute them) should the situation change some day. This has happened as organizations change priorities and publications go out of print (or the last copy is lost in a fire) and the publisher no longer sees any benefit in not freely posting their materials. If I learn anything more of relevance, I'll be sure to post it to this list. Anyone wishing to distribute this
