Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Nico Escamilla via Texascavers]

the fence right by the resurgence is actually the state line, the cave is
in Coahuila

El oct. 10, 2016 4:28 PM, "David via Texascavers" <
texascavers@texascavers.com> escribió:

> I am just curious if the cave really is inside the boundary of the State
> of Nuevo Leon then how is it controlled by an ejido in the state of
> Coahuila.
>
> I can't picture that happening in the USA.
>
> David Locklear
>
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>
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

Where you live, your occupation, caving experience, close caving friends, any 
other facts that might be important to you. I had only seen your name recently. 
Fritz Holt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2016, at 5:46 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> So Fritz what would you like to know about me?
> Karen
> 
> 
> From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
> Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
> 
> I don't know Karen Perry but would like to read a short bio on who and where 
> she is.
> Fritz Holt
> fritz...@gmail.com
> An old 50's and 60's spelunker. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers 
>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The entire incident is recorded in detailed time log, complete with 
>> newspaper articles in the November 1971 Texas Caver.The boys that drowned 
>> were Chris Cleveland 18, and Bruce Stone 17, both from Houston, Texas.
>> 
>> Yep, I still have some caving stuff like early Texas Cavers. By the way, 
>> does anyone have a copy of the Paleo inventory from Inner Space cavers pre 
>> 1974 that list the Homo Sapien tooth? By 1974 it hafd been removed due to 
>> religious outcry so to avoid controversy the owners/ board decided to simply 
>> remove the tooth from the inventory log.
>> 
>> Later,
>> Karen Perry
>> 
>> 
>> From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
>> To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
>> 
>> A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and 
>> drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon 
>> with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The 
>> flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb.
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers 
>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>> I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.
>> I have heard they are under water.
>> 
>> __ _
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ 
>> texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/ listinfo/texascavers
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Charlie Loving
>> 
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología AC . via Texascavers]

Thank you very much. friends..
:)

2016-09-01 17:46 GMT-05:00 Karen Perry via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com>:

> So Fritz what would you like to know about me?
> Karen
>
>
> --
> *From:* Fritz Holt via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:12 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
>
> I don't know Karen Perry but would like to read a short bio on who and
> where she is.
> Fritz Holt
> fritz...@gmail.com
> An old 50's and 60's spelunker.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 31, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers <
> texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>
> The entire incident is recorded in detailed time log, complete with
> newspaper articles in the November 1971 Texas Caver.The boys that drowned
> were Chris Cleveland 18, and Bruce Stone 17, both from Houston, Texas.
>
> Yep, I still have some caving stuff like early Texas Cavers. By the way,
> does anyone have a copy of the Paleo inventory from Inner Space cavers pre
> 1974 that list the Homo Sapien tooth? By 1974 it hafd been removed due to
> religious outcry so to avoid controversy the owners/ board decided to
> simply remove the tooth from the inventory log.
>
> Later,
> Karen Perry
>
>
> --
> *From:* Charles Loving via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> *To:* Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:57 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
>
> A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and
> drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon
> with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The
> flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb.
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers <
> texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>
> I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.
> I have heard they are under water.
>
> __ _
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> texascavers@texascavers.com/
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/>
> http://lists.texascavers.com/ listinfo/texascavers
> <http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
>
> ___
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>
>
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>
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>
>
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>
>


-- 

LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ

Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la UIS

Instructor Nacional Certificado de Espeleología por la FMAS

Directora de MP- Mex Caving

Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología, A.C. (Fundadora)

Asociación Italiana Geográfica La Venta (Socia)

Centro de Estudios Kársticos La Venta (Socia)

Grupo Espeleológico Vaxakmen, A.C. (Socia)

Grupo Espeleológico EspeleoZots en Chetumal (Asesora)

Grupo Pionero de Espeleología en Sonora  (Asesora)

Association for Mexican Cave Studies (Colaboradora)

Texas Speleological Association (Socia)

Unión Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleológicas (Socia)
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Karen Perry via Texascavers]

So Fritz what would you like to know about me?Karen


  From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
 Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:12 PM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
   
I don't know Karen Perry but would like to read a short bio on who and where 
she is.Fritz Holtfritztcr@gmail.comAn old 50's and 60's spelunker. 

Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 31, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:


The entire incident is recorded in detailed time log, complete with newspaper 
articles in the November 1971 Texas Caver.The boys that drowned were Chris 
Cleveland 18, and Bruce Stone 17, both from Houston, Texas.
Yep, I still have some caving stuff like early Texas Cavers. By the way, does 
anyone have a copy of the Paleo inventory from Inner Space cavers pre 1974 that 
list the Homo Sapien tooth? By 1974 it hafd been removed due to religious 
outcry so to avoid controversy the owners/ board decided to simply remove the 
tooth from the inventory log.

Later,
Karen Perry


  From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
 To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:57 AM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
  
A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and 
drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon with 
a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The flashlight 
lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb.
On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.I have heard they are 
under water.
__ _
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-- 
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Fritz Holt via Texascavers]

I don't know Karen Perry but would like to read a short bio on who and where 
she is.
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
An old 50's and 60's spelunker. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> The entire incident is recorded in detailed time log, complete with newspaper 
> articles in the November 1971 Texas Caver.The boys that drowned were Chris 
> Cleveland 18, and Bruce Stone 17, both from Houston, Texas.
> 
> Yep, I still have some caving stuff like early Texas Cavers. By the way, does 
> anyone have a copy of the Paleo inventory from Inner Space cavers pre 1974 
> that list the Homo Sapien tooth? By 1974 it hafd been removed due to 
> religious outcry so to avoid controversy the owners/ board decided to simply 
> remove the tooth from the inventory log.
> 
> Later,
> Karen Perry
> 
> 
> From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
> To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
> 
> A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and 
> drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon 
> with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The 
> flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.
> I have heard they are under water.
> 
> __ _
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ 
> texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/ listinfo/texascavers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charlie Loving
> 
> ___
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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> 
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Pete Lindsley via Texascavers]

On Aug 31, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología AC. via 
Texascavers wrote:

Do you have the dates of that accident?
do you know is someone write an article about it? could you please share with me

Mónica Ponce

2016-08-31 11:57 GMT-05:00 Charles Loving via Texascavers 
:
A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and 
drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon with 
a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The flashlight 
lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb.

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers 
 wrote:
I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.

I have heard they are under water.


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-- 
Charlie Loving

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-- 
LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ
Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la UIS
Instructor Nacional Certificado de Espeleología por la FMAS
Directora de MP- Mex Caving
Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología, A.C. (Fundadora)
Asociación Italiana Geográfica La Venta (Socia)
Centro de Estudios Kársticos La Venta (Socia)
Grupo Espeleológico Vaxakmen, A.C. (Socia)
Grupo Espeleológico EspeleoZots en Chetumal (Asesora)
Grupo Pionero de Espeleología en Sonora  (Asesora)
Association for Mexican Cave Studies (Colaboradora)
Texas Speleological Association (Socia)
Unión Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleológicas (Socia)

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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Karen Perry via Texascavers]

The entire incident is recorded in detailed time log, complete with newspaper 
articles in the November 1971 Texas Caver.The boys that drowned were Chris 
Cleveland 18, and Bruce Stone 17, both from Houston, Texas.
Yep, I still have some caving stuff like early Texas Cavers. By the way, does 
anyone have a copy of the Paleo inventory from Inner Space cavers pre 1974 that 
list the Homo Sapien tooth? By 1974 it hafd been removed due to religious 
outcry so to avoid controversy the owners/ board decided to simply remove the 
tooth from the inventory log.

Later,
Karen Perry


  From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
 To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:57 AM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
   
A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and 
drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon with 
a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The flashlight 
lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb.
On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.I have heard they are 
under water.
__ _
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-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología AC . via Texascavers]

Do you have the dates of that accident?
do you know is someone write an article about it? could you please share
with me

Mónica Ponce

2016-08-31 11:57 GMT-05:00 Charles Loving via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com>:

> A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and
> drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon
> with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The
> flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb.
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers <
> texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>
>> I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.
>>
>> I have heard they are under water.
>>
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/te
>> xascav...@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
>
> ___
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>
>


-- 

LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ

Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la UIS

Instructor Nacional Certificado de Espeleología por la FMAS

Directora de MP- Mex Caving

Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología, A.C. (Fundadora)

Asociación Italiana Geográfica La Venta (Socia)

Centro de Estudios Kársticos La Venta (Socia)

Grupo Espeleológico Vaxakmen, A.C. (Socia)

Grupo Espeleológico EspeleoZots en Chetumal (Asesora)

Grupo Pionero de Espeleología en Sonora  (Asesora)

Association for Mexican Cave Studies (Colaboradora)

Texas Speleological Association (Socia)

Unión Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleológicas (Socia)
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Charles Loving via Texascavers]

A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and
drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon
with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The
flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb.

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.
>
> I have heard they are under water.
>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
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> texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Stefan Creaser via Texascavers]

Snork :-)

Stefan Creaser
Staff Design Engineer; Physical Design Group; ARM
5707 Southwest Parkway, Bldg 1, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78735, USA.
Direct: +1-512-314-1012, Internal: 11012.
Email: stefan.crea...@arm.com. Skype: 
stefan_creaser

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
David via Texascavers
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 8:53 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Carrizal


I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.

I have heard they are under water.

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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Charles Loving via Texascavers]

Carizal as a tourist cave is a terrible idea. It isn't very pretty at any
of the levels.

On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Espeleo Coahuila via Texascavers 
texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:


 Currently the Caves of Carrizal, are considered of the state of Coahuila
 and the Secretary of Tourism, has a project to make this cave a place for
 tourism.
 Despite knowing that the cave has histoplasmosis.

 LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ

 Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la
 UIS

 Instructor Nacional Certificado de Espeleología por la FMAS

 Directora de MP- Mex Caving

 Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología, A.C. (Fundadora)

 Asociación Italiana Geográfica La Venta (Socia)

 Centro de Estudios Kársticos La Venta (Socia)

 Grupo Espeleológico Vaxakmen, A.C. (Socia)

 Grupo Espeleológico EspeleoZots en Chetumal (Asesora)

 Grupo Pionero de Espeleología en Sonora  (Asesora)

 Association for Mexican Cave Studies (Colaboradora)

 Texas Speleological Association (Socia)

 Unión Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleológicas (Socia)


 2014-11-11 19:11 GMT-06:00 via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com:

 The last time I went to Grutas de Carrizal was 2008. We didn't go to
 the dry upper level passage, because we knew there was Histoplasmosis
 there, but three new cavers got histo anyway, (two seriously). It was May,
 and there were bats in the big passage with the stream. maybe it was always
 winter when we went in the 70s. Maybe there are now more bats, but I
 wouldn't try it without histo masks.

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-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[David via Texascavers]

Charles, you have to imagine a gas-powered choo-choo train and giant LCD
tv's mounted on the walls showing you what stalamgasites  are, and how
they are formed.

David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Gill Ediger via Texascavers]

I first went to Carrizal in 1967 and there was already a sign on the building 
there between the 2 entrances warning of the histo danger. I was raised with 
chickens so have a high histo resistance. We went caving there a dozen or more 
times with small and large groups and I don't recall that anybody in any of our 
groups ever reported getting histo--or even feeling bad--though there could 
have been some cases that were never diagnosed or reported that  I never heard 
about. We explored (and usually entered the cave through) the upper, dry 
passage (generally considered to be the histo infected area) and also explored 
the 2 lower water passages--to include diving them both with and without scuba. 
I recall that soon after (or during?) that time there were reports of people 
from other groups getting histo after visiting the cave. I don't feel qualified 
to give any advice on going to explore Carrizal anymore but would suggest that 
anyone without a proven
 resistance to any of the several lung fungi who decides to go to Carrizal 
consider wearing a millipore dust filter mask. A reasonable history of close 
contact with yard birds (chickens, for instance) during their lives should give 
people an excuse to be less careful--but why?  
--Ediger


On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 10:36 PM, Fofo via Texascavers 
texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 


Hey Pete!

Oh, I can't remember, but it was probably during the summer since we had 
no newer cavers with us (and if we had gone during the time of eithe the 
spring or fall semester we would have had more people tagging along).

- Fofo



On 12/11/14 20:28, via Texascavers wrote:
   Sorry, that first Carrizal post was Pete Strickland, (I forgot I had to 
 sign now). Fofo- What time of year did the Monterrey nubies get Histo?
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Espeleo Coahuila via Texascavers]

Currently the Caves of Carrizal, are considered of the state of Coahuila
and the Secretary of Tourism, has a project to make this cave a place for
tourism.
Despite knowing that the cave has histoplasmosis.

LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ

Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la UIS

Instructor Nacional Certificado de Espeleología por la FMAS

Directora de MP- Mex Caving

Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología, A.C. (Fundadora)

Asociación Italiana Geográfica La Venta (Socia)

Centro de Estudios Kársticos La Venta (Socia)

Grupo Espeleológico Vaxakmen, A.C. (Socia)

Grupo Espeleológico EspeleoZots en Chetumal (Asesora)

Grupo Pionero de Espeleología en Sonora  (Asesora)

Association for Mexican Cave Studies (Colaboradora)

Texas Speleological Association (Socia)

Unión Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleológicas (Socia)


2014-11-11 19:11 GMT-06:00 via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com:

 The last time I went to Grutas de Carrizal was 2008. We didn't go to
 the dry upper level passage, because we knew there was Histoplasmosis
 there, but three new cavers got histo anyway, (two seriously). It was May,
 and there were bats in the big passage with the stream. maybe it was always
 winter when we went in the 70s. Maybe there are now more bats, but I
 wouldn't try it without histo masks.

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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Fofo via Texascavers]

Thanks Stefan! I was wondering the same. 

A few years ago we went with the Monterrey Tec caving group to Carrizal, 
checked both the water and dry levels and had a blast. 

We figured it would be an awesome cave to bring newer cavers since it was so 
cool to have a both hot and cold streams in a cave. 

In our first trip it was all experienced cavers (with probably higher 
resistance to histoplasmosis), we didn't know that Carrizal had a high risk of 
histo, and no one got sick. 

When we came back with a group of newer and more experienced cavers, all the 
newer cavers got histo, one of them badly. 

Too bad, because it's such a cool cave!

- Fofo



 On 11/11/2014, at 17:26, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
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 -Original Message-
 From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
 via Texascavers
 Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 7:12 PM
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: [Texascavers] Carrizal
 
The last time I went to Grutas de Carrizal was 2008. We didn't go to the 
 dry upper level passage, because we knew there was Histoplasmosis there, but 
 three new cavers got histo anyway, (two seriously). It was May, and there 
 were bats in the big passage with the stream. maybe it was always winter when 
 we went in the 70s. Maybe there are now more bats, but I wouldn't try it 
 without histo masks.
 
 
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal

[Fofo via Texascavers]

Hey Pete!

Oh, I can't remember, but it was probably during the summer since we had 
no newer cavers with us (and if we had gone during the time of eithe the 
spring or fall semester we would have had more people tagging along).


- Fofo



On 12/11/14 20:28, via Texascavers wrote:

  Sorry, that first Carrizal post was Pete Strickland, (I forgot I had to 
sign now). Fofo- What time of year did the Monterrey nubies get Histo?
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