Re: [Therion] Updated Elevation grid labels
Both of these updates look very useful to me. Footleg On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 8:14 PM Владимир Георгиев via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote: > Hi > > Here are a couple of recent Therion updates I needed and added: > - I added 4 more symbol scales to the existing 5 ones: 2XS < XS < S < M < > L < XL < 2XL < 3XL < 4XL. Each is approximately 50% larger than the > previous. The 2 larger ones are a bit excessive, but might come in handy > occasionally. > > - Updated elevation grid to show both depth and altitude of cave, instead > of altitude only. Depth is in the left column, altitude in the right. They > are also aligned to match the 0 point, which is slightly different than the > old one. > You can see what I mean in the attached images. > > In a 2D map the depth is more important for me than the altitude. If > someone uses that type of grid, can you share your opinion? > I could add an additional layout option to control whether the grid is > labeled in the new way, but it doesn't seem to be worth it. > > The compiled apps and code are here > https://github.com/vldgeorgiev/therion/wiki > > Vladimir > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Stations coordinates
For converting Compass survey data files into metric, you can use my Cave Converter program. http://wscc.darkgem.com/caveconverter/ You can read Compass data into the program, and export it as Survex format. >From this it is straight forward to copy and paste the data sections into Therion files. I am working on adding direct Therion export (and import) next. Footleg On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:50 PM Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > Anyway, you may use Survex and .3d file exported from Therion: > > 3dtopos - name of utulity > > 3dtopos — produce a .pos file from a .3d file > > Synopsis > > 3dtopos [options] {.3d file} [.pos file] > > Description > > 3dtopos takes a .3d file and produces a .pos file which contains a list of > all the stations with coordinates (ordered x,y,z [East, North, Up]) and > complete names. > > The stations are sorted such that numbers occur in the correct order (so > “2” before “10”). 3dtopos even sorts numbers with a prefix and/or suffix, > so you’d get: > > 040.sv8 > 040.sv8a > 040.sv8b > 040.sv8c > 040.sv9 > 040.sv10 > 040.sv11 > 40_entrance_tag > 40b_entrance_tag > > Survex 1.2.30 Manual > > 11 > > You can also export .pos files from aven in versions 1.2.19 and later. > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Aven colour by loop error
Therion strips most of the data apart from staions and legs out of 3D files it generates. Colour by error and by date are not possible because that information is not in the 3D files generated from a Therion project. Entrances are lost too. One of the reasons I plan to add Therion to Survex conversion into my cave converter program (when time permits). Footleg On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 6:46 PM Bruce Mutton via Therion wrote: > I really need it! It seems the interface is and data there, just need the > two to be introduced to each other. > > Therion debug does not show the loop errors as far as I can tell, only the > single largest error, and scrap distortions. > > Therion.log lists all the errors, but what I need is this information in > graphical form. > > > > Bruce > > > > *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *Martin > Sluka via Therion > *Sent:* Wednesday, 22 February 2017 9:45 PM > *To:* List for Therion users > *Cc:* Martin Sluka > *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Aven colour by loop error > > > > > > 22. 2. 2017 v 9:05, Bruce Mutton via Therion : > > > > Is ‘colour by loop error’ something that could readily be added to the > Therion export? > > > > > > Do you really need it? There is „debug on“ option in thconfig, which will > produce very clear visualization of the biggest error in exported map. > > > > m.s. > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] xtherion: "Edit line" contextual menu for line points doesn't work
Same as Bruce (but on Windows 7). Edit line context menu items work for me (e.g. Convert to Curve when clicking on a line makes all the nodes smooth curves). Footleg On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 5:22 AM Bruce Mutton via Therion wrote: > I cannot duplicate this problem. > > At least Insert, Delete and Split line work just fine from the right-click > context menu. > > Using 5.3.16 Vlad’s version. > > Windows 10 > > > > Bruce > > > > *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *Rodrigo > Severo via Therion > *Sent:* Friday, 24 February 2017 3:27 PM > *To:* List for Therion users > *Cc:* Rodrigo Severo > *Subject:* Re: [Therion] xtherion: "Edit line" contextual menu for line > points doesn't work > > > > 2017-02-23 22:56 GMT-03:00 Bill Gee via Therion : > > I am unable to duplicate this problem. Therion version 5.3.16 compiled > from source, running on 64-bit Fedora 25. > > > > Just to understand, all options of the "Edit line" contextual menu for a > line point worked just the same as if you called these same options from > the button menu on the right panel? > >- Insert point >- Delete point >- Split line >- Trace line >- Convert to curve >- Simplify > > Is that it? > > > > Rodrigo > > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Projected Elevation Reprojection
I am just starting to try and draw up my first projected elevations in Therion (only 5 years into the project!). I have found that you cannot reproject an elevation from one bearing onto another (Therion only includes elevation maps containing scraps of the exact same bearing as the export statement). e.g. In my thconfig: export map -projection [elevation 180] -layout local -o ElevEW.pdf My scrap type is set to: elevation 180 If I don't declare the projection in my map, then the map is only included in the export when the bearings match between the export and the scrap. (180 degrees meaning the elevation is a projection looking due South, so the drawing represents a slice through the cave from East to West across the page from left to right. I am drawing the scrap using an extended elevation sketch from PocketTopo which is from a passage which trends approximately due West going downslope. This works OK and the distortion is minimal my elevation comes out looking pretty much like my scrap drawing. [image: TherionElev180.png] But I want to draw my projected elevation sloping down from right to left, as that matches the plan drawing. If I just change the export to [elevation 000] then nothing is output (the map only contains scraps with elevation 180, so the map is not included. If I try to force the map to use -projection [elevation 000] so that it matches the export statement then Therion throws an error saying there is an incompatible projection in my map (because the scrap is elevation 180). Realising that the scrap gets distorted to match the bearing (i.e. I have drawn an extended elevation sketch, but side the scrap is projected at 180), I tried to set the scrap to 'elevation 000'. Afterall, Therion should just distort the drawing to align the stations along on the plane of the projection right? Well sort of. What could be expected to be a simple reversal of the scrap, actually makes quite a mess of it as you can see in the elevation [000] rendering: [image: TherionElev000.png] This looks like a bug in the distortion code. I think the ceiling and floor have been swapped (i.e. Therion has rotated the scrap along a horizontal axis going into the page rather than flipping it left-right. But it has also bent the ceiling and floor lines into some sort of geological folds as well.) Am I missing any tricks here? Do I need to manually try to reproject all my extended elevation sketches onto the projection I want to draw my scraps using, and scan them back in as background sketches? Does anyone know of any tricks to perform the sort of 'horizontal' distortion I need here (i.e. Only moving the pixels of the sketch in the horizontal dimension, not the vertical? I need to learn this inside out so I can write the projected elevations chapter of my tutorial! Footleg ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Projected Elevation Reprojection
Thank you Bruce and Martin for the replies and links to further reading. These were really helpful. Martin, I am not sure what -flip right, left in centreline is about. I cannot find any reference to using flip in centrelines in the Therion book. But the -flip horizontal scrap option which both of you pointed me to did the trick. In summary, I draw my scrap using the extended elevation sketch from PocketTopo (which was for a passage heading downslope almost due West). I set that scrap type to 'elevation [000]' which represents a 'West to East' slice through the cave model, but also add the '-flip horizontal' into the scrap options. This turns my scrap which was drawn using a sketch representing more or less along the elevation [180] view into a scrap projected onto elevation [000] with minimal distortion. The Rendering looks good. So this is a nice easy technique for easy linear passages along the same approximate bearing as the elevation view you want to present, and allows you to directly use the extended elevation sketch from PocketTopo as the background (so you get the features like auto numbering of survey stations in the sketch editor). For passages not conveniently all aligned with the plane of the elevation slice I will have to distort the drawings in the X dimension only to match the approximate station spacing in the projection, then load these as PNG background sketches and place the stations by hand. I'll report back on how I get on. Footleg ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Loch giving strange artifacts
Possibly your walls are inside out. Do the walls appear and vanish as you rotate the model? That is a sure sign some of your scrap boundaries are not right. Common causes are the insides of loops not flagged as outline in, or walls which cross other walls. Footleg On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 3:34 PM Benedikt Hallinger via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote: > Hello, > in my loch model i get some strange artefacts. > > It seems that the further-away objects are rendered in front of the > nearer-in-front objects. > I would expect that the passages far away would be covered by those in the > front of the camera (as is the case where i did not yet have scraps and > only > the centerline is present... look at the screenshot) > > What am i doing wrong?___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Question/Problem with customizing text labels
An alternative to setting smaller text size codes to 0 (to hide xs labels) is to put the labels in a different scrap to the drawing. I have done this with some success where I wanted more detailed text in large scale maps. I still draw it all in the editor on one th2 file, but just move the labels into a separate scrap. Then I can decide when I define my maps which ones to include the labels in. This works well where some maps use offsets too, as I can include labels in the white space per map depending on where the white space on the survey appears based on different use of offsets on each map. Footleg On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 6:04 PM Владимир Георгиев via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote: > There is also a "min-symbol-scale" option in layout, which hides smaller > symbols. It might work similar to what you are doing in the font_setup > metapost. > You can hide the smallest items, not the largest ones, but hiding the > larger ones is not that useful anyway. > > > On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 7:13 PM, Henry.Bennett--- via Therion < > therion@speleo.sk> wrote: > >> Hi Vladimir, >> >> >> >> “-scale” sounds interesting. One of the things I like about s,m,l,xl, >> etc was the ability in metapost to set xs to zero (0). >> >> >> >> Consider a system where you have a full size survey of a single cave. I >> can draw that cave with full detail using xs set to a x font size. When >> that cave intercepts the cave master I can simply draw the system by >> suppressing some of the detail by using >> >> >> >> code metapost >> >> #change the size of the default fonts >> >> >> #fonts_setup(); >> >> fonts_setup(0,18,40,64,80); >> >> endcode >> >> >> >> I will take a look at –scale and see how that works in such a case. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> *Henry Bennett* >> >> Solutions Consultant >> >> *Dell* *EMC* | Public Sector >> >> henry.benn...@dell.com +44 7717 157 193 <+44%207717%20157193> >> >> http://uk.linkedin.com/in/bennetthenry/ >> >> Planned absence: *19-23 June* >> >> >> >> *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of * >> via Therion >> *Sent:* 15 May 2017 16:34 >> *To:* Bennett, Henry >> *Cc:* Владимир Георгиев ; TherionList < >> therion@speleo.sk> >> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Question/Problem with customizing text labels >> >> >> >> Henry >> >> After a talk with Stacho, he thought that it would be better not to >> increase the list of sizes. They are restrictive, in a sense that you have >> a limited set and can not use anything larger or smaller or in-between >> sizes. >> >> There was a "scale" option that already existed, but was not enabled, so >> he enabled it. >> >> For point and line items you can use this option: >> >> "-scale ", where is the scale factor. The normal size >> corresponds to 1.0, but you can use any value >0. >> >> Vladimir >> >> >> >> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 3:48 PM, wrote: >> >> Hi, I see that more text size options didn’t make it into the 5.4.1 >> release. >> >> >> >> Would be great to see it in a future release. >> >> >> >> Thanks, Henry >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of * >> via Therion >> *Sent:* 13 December 2016 15:13 >> *To:* List for Therion users >> *Cc:* Владимир Георгиев >> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Question/Problem with customizing text labels >> >> >> >> Torsten >> >> I can't confirm or test the issue, but if the -xl size is too small, you >> can check out the beta version here >> https://github.com/vldgeorgiev/therion/wiki >> >> A few weeks ago I added three more large symbol sizes. E.g. 2XL, 3XL and >> 4XL. They might work in your case. >> >> >> If I have time next week I will see about the frame size and why it is >> drawn smaller. >> >> Vladimir >> >> >> >> Dell Corporation Limited is registered in England and Wales. Company >> Registration Number: 2081369 >> Registered address: Dell House, The Boulevard, Cain Road, Bracknell, >> Berkshire, RG12 1LF, UK. >> Company details for other Dell UK entities can be found on >> www.dell.co.uk. >> >> >> >> Dell Corporation Limited is registered in England and Wales. Company >> Registration Number: 2081369 >> Registered address: Dell House, The Boulevard, Cain Road, Bracknell, >> Berkshire, RG12 1LF, UK. >> Company details for other Dell UK entities can be found on >> www.dell.co.uk. >> >> ___ >> Therion mailing list >> Therion@speleo.sk >> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion >> >> > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Therion Theory - scrap and map definitions
Hi Bruce, An interesting read. I think the test of any model is how well it handles the exceptions. In the case of my own projects (where I use my recommended structure of course) I have cases where I have to draw up a section of cave which spans more than one trip in one drawing (typically difficult junctions where approach passages were surveyed on different trips). So here I have to add a .th2 file at a higher level than the trip and have to draw the scrap referencing the station names with more than just the number. The tip to specify the namespace in the scrap header is how I handle this where I can keep each scrap to an area belonging to a single trip (I still might want to draw multiple scraps in the same map editor file, hence the need to place the .th2 file outside the trip). But in some cases to get things to output how I want, there is no way to avoid having stations from multiple trips in the same scrap. So here each station name needs to include the namespace. So in reality the model I recommend only works in idea cases, and needs to be merged with parts of some of your other models to deal with these exceptions. The key thing I try to avoid as far as possible is having to add namespaces to each station (as it means you can no longer just click on the stations in a sketch imported from PocketTopo and have the station numbers set automatically). I usually end up clicking on all the station points to give them automatically assigned numbers, and then add the namespace using search and replace in a plain text editor. It would be good to add an analysis of the pros and cons of each structure to your document, covering how they handle the imperfect structure of real world data. Footleg On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 12:38 PM Vasily Vl. Suhachev via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote: > Hello Bruce and All > > I had to draw a few large caves and I want to share my experience: > > 1) I always keep scanned survey notebooks. This is an artifact obtained in > a cave and is the source of truth. > > 2) I store the entire centerline in a separate directory with a split into > files on a trip basis. I think this is more correct because the centerline > is a direct reflection of the survey notebooks. In the case of an error, > this allows you to quickly navigate to notebooks. Entire cave centerline > assembled in index file inside centerline directory. > > 3) I do not tie maps tightly to survey trips because it's usually more > convenient to draw a map that covers a cave part (passage, grotto) rather > than surveying trip. > > I call such dedicated part of the cave as `subsystem`. Subsystem maps are > stored in separate subsystem directories. In each directory there are files > `thconfig`, * .th2 and a file `maps.th` in which the definition of maps > and joins is stored. > > I store the definition of maps of the entire cave in the top directory in > the `maps.th` file in which I connect the` maps.th` files from the > subsystems' directories. I do not use therion namespaces for maps because > the number of maps are much smaller than the surveys. Uniqueness of names > of maps I support manually. > > Folder structure example: > cave > +-- survey# scanned notebooks > +-- trip1 > +-- 1.jpg > +-- 2.jpg > +-- 3.jpg > +-- trip2 > +-- trip3 > +-- trip4 > +-- cl# centerline > +-- cave.th # index file with equates > +-- trip1.th > +-- trip2.th > +-- trip3.th > +-- trip4.th > +-- model > +-- thconfig > +-- map > +-- p # plan > +-- subsystem1 > +-- 1.th2 > +-- 2.th2 > +-- maps.th > +-- thconfig > +-- subsystem2 > +-- 3.th2 > +-- maps.th > +-- thconfig > +-- maps.th > +-- thconfig > +-- rr # extended elevation > +-- r240 # elevation at 240 > > > 06.07.2017 03:08, Bruce Mutton via Therion пишет: > > A little while ago I explored the effects of different ways of relating > scraps and maps to surveys, and to the files that contain them. > > I came up with the attached text, which I might get around to turning into > a wiki page sometime. There are links to some examples already available > via the wiki. > > > > Before I wiki-ise it, I’d like some feedback, or criticism, as > appropriate! Is it helpful? (I think so) > > > > Footleg, I plagiarised your page, just a little. > > Also, if Danilo Magnani or Will Urbanski are still listening, or if > someone knows how to contact them, I’d like permission to put on the wiki > the project samples they posted to this forum some years ago. Those are > named Complesso - Buc di V, and DDC – Radio Collar Cave. > > > > Bruce > > > ___
Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs
Usually a Windows application installer offers the option to install to a location of the users choosing. If this was done then users wanting to install without admin privileges could choose a location they have write permissions for. Otherwise users can choose to just click through 'Next' on each page to accept the default install under Program Files. Footleg On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:28 AM Bruce Mutton via Therion wrote: > It is outside of my area of expertise, however: > >- No 1 seems dangerous, at the whim of future MS updates and there are >bound to be people with non-standard setups, or very old Windows versions, >any of which might break something that tries to be too clever. >- No 2 is OK by me. > > I don’t think I would use a ‘non-installed’ version. The installer is > compact, quick, easy and has proved versatile and reliable over at least 10 > years. I rely on file associations heavily, to tweak my system to make > Therion workflow ‘comfortable’. > > Bruce > > > > *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of * > via Therion > *Sent:* Monday, 17 July 2017 7:55 PM > > > *To:* List for Therion users > > *Cc:* Владимир Георгиев > *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer > incomplete installs > > > > About the installer problems... > > Since I did the installer changes, here is that comes to mind: > 1) I could try to make it more intelligent and to detect if there is an > existing install location (all users or current user) and to install in the > same one without the "All/Current user" prompt. This will probably not > prevent all possible problems though. > > 2) Another solution would be to revert those changes and keep only the > "All users" option, which requires admin privileges. This is how the older > installers worked and always installed in Program Files. > > In addition to that, there could be a portable edition of Therion, which > is distributed as a ZIP file and the user would only need to extract it in > a folder. There would be no association to the TH, TH2 and THCONFIG file > extensions of course. Currently the code reads the install location from > the Win registry, but it could be made to search for files in the current > folder. > > Does anyone have an opinion on what would be most useful? > > Would you use the portable option, or the "Current user" installer? > > Vladimir > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs
I have yet to meet a Therion user who knows another Therion user who they share a computer with. So I would be happy with install for Current user only. Footleg On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:15 PM Владимир Георгиев via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote: > Yes, the location is flexible. I think it was that way in the old > installer too. > But there are also global Start menu shortcuts and registry entries that > go into HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE. For those the installer needs admin rights. If > it doesn't have them, it comes down again to the All users vs Current user > problem. > > Vlad > > On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Footleg via Therion > wrote: > >> Usually a Windows application installer offers the option to install to a >> location of the users choosing. If this was done then users wanting to >> install without admin privileges could choose a location they have write >> permissions for. Otherwise users can choose to just click through 'Next' on >> each page to accept the default install under Program Files. >> >> Footleg >> >> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:28 AM Bruce Mutton via Therion < >> therion@speleo.sk> wrote: >> >>> It is outside of my area of expertise, however: >>> >>>- No 1 seems dangerous, at the whim of future MS updates and there >>>are bound to be people with non-standard setups, or very old Windows >>>versions, any of which might break something that tries to be too clever. >>>- No 2 is OK by me. >>> >>> I don’t think I would use a ‘non-installed’ version. The installer is >>> compact, quick, easy and has proved versatile and reliable over at least 10 >>> years. I rely on file associations heavily, to tweak my system to make >>> Therion workflow ‘comfortable’. >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of * >>> via Therion >>> *Sent:* Monday, 17 July 2017 7:55 PM >>> >>> >>> *To:* List for Therion users >>> >>> *Cc:* Владимир Георгиев >>> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer >>> incomplete installs >>> >>> >>> >>> About the installer problems... >>> >>> Since I did the installer changes, here is that comes to mind: >>> 1) I could try to make it more intelligent and to detect if there is an >>> existing install location (all users or current user) and to install in the >>> same one without the "All/Current user" prompt. This will probably not >>> prevent all possible problems though. >>> >>> 2) Another solution would be to revert those changes and keep only the >>> "All users" option, which requires admin privileges. This is how the older >>> installers worked and always installed in Program Files. >>> >>> In addition to that, there could be a portable edition of Therion, which >>> is distributed as a ZIP file and the user would only need to extract it in >>> a folder. There would be no association to the TH, TH2 and THCONFIG file >>> extensions of course. Currently the code reads the install location from >>> the Win registry, but it could be made to search for files in the current >>> folder. >>> >>> Does anyone have an opinion on what would be most useful? >>> >>> Would you use the portable option, or the "Current user" installer? >>> >>> Vladimir >>> ___ >>> Therion mailing list >>> Therion@speleo.sk >>> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion >>> >> >> ___ >> Therion mailing list >> Therion@speleo.sk >> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion >> >> > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Line Colours in Map Editor with 5.4.1
Having finally got around to updating my install to 5.4.1 I was trying to work out how the line colours had appeared in the official builds (I'm on Windows). I see the ini file entries in both xtherion.ini and xtherion.new.ini, all commented out in both files. So I am assuming the colours are set by some hard coded defaults unless over ridden in the ini file? Why are there two ini files? Are they both used by the application? When this feature was first provided (via the email list) for testing, I commented that some of the default colours were not ideal from my experience. In particular the use of 'brown' for unselected walls in the active scrap is not so easy to tell from the red selected item. As users are already accustomed to the blue wall lines in the active scrap, I changed this one to blue. Rock borders look the same colour as survey legs and splays in background sketches brought in from PocketTopo, so I changed these to purple. So the only two changes I have to add into my ini file are: set xth(gui,me,wallcolor) blue set xth(gui,me,rockcolor) purple The blue walls work well with the blue controlfill because the control points only appear on selected lines, where the line is turned red. So this is not confused with blue wall lines which are not selected. I would like to propose these colours be made the defaults as I think it makes the editor easier to use, and I would like to reflect the default colours in the screenshots in my tutorial documents when I update them to reflect the latest release. Footleg ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] mud!
I designed a UK symbol set for just this purpose. You can pull a copy from the British Caving Association registry where I (and many other UK cavers) publish and share our data. See the gb_layout.thc file in the Wookey Catchment repo: http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/WookeyCatchment/ My project in that catchment is Swildons. So if you want to see how I include it in a Therion project just download the data set and process the thconfig-swildons_ent Therion project file in the Swildons folder. Footleg On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 11:36 PM Wookey via Therion wrote: > On 2017-08-14 11:51 -0700, Rob Countess via Therion wrote: > > > It would seem like a break in tradition to use a different symbol for > mud. I've > > been surveying caves for 20 years with this symbol. As far as I > understood, we > > were using British mapping symbols because of the large number of British > > cavers like Mike Boon and Tich Morris, and others who came over because > of > > Derek Ford at McMaster University. I used to have a huge list of symbols > with > > this mud symbol included, I can't find anything to back this up several > pages > > deep on google. You will notice that the UIS calcite symbol is exactly > the mud > > symbol in Canada whereas our calcite symbol is connected scallops. Not > sure if > > this is based of some now defunct british symbols set. > > You don't have to draw your caves with the UIS sysmbol set. You can > choose a different symbol-set if you prefer. As you say, the lack of a > 'mud' sysmbol is a bit difficult for cavers of a UK mindset, but the > UIS logic in just defining sediments by particle size does make some > sense. > > Therion is quite happy for you to specify any sysmbol set you like, or > to add a few extra sysmbols. (Most UK surveyors can't really get by > without the 'slope arrow' symbol for example) > > Wookey > -- > Principal hats: Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM > http://wookware.org/ > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Joining scraps and PDF layouts
More of a problem at scrap joins where both scraps have water area fills adjoining is that the hash lines indicating the fill type do not align. I work around this by drawing the entire water fill area on just one of the scraps so that it overlaps on top of the adjoining scrap (they must be in the same 'block' of the map; without a 'break' between them). Turn 'clip off' for the area fill so it extends outside the scrap border, overlapping the other scrap and appears as one area fill on the PDF. I often use this deliberately to hide colour differences at scrap joins where I am colouring my scrap backgrounds by altitude. The water area fill is always blue in my layout so it hides the contrast between adjoining scrap colours (circled in red in attached graphic). Footleg [image: ScrapJoinHiddenByWater.png] On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 8:22 PM Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > There is one possibility to play with invisible walls and define borders > of scraps not as straight lines but as puzzle. > > In such case one scrap may include all water area. > > The problem is with contact of scraps, but if both scraps are on the same > background image you may copy line from one scrap to another with plain > text editor. Coordinates are the same. > > m.s. > > > > 14. 8. 2017 v 19:45, Torsten Schnitter via Therion : > > > Hi > As I was told by a grafic designer problem 1 is just visible on the > screen/monitor. > When printing to a plotter there are no white lines anymore. > I do have the same problem on the screen. But when plotting there are > really no white lines anymore. > Cheers, > Torsten > > Am 14.08.2017 um 19:04 schrieb Henry Bennett via Therion < > therion@speleo.sk>: > > Problem 2 can be addressed by working with some custom Tex. > > Take a look at this > https://github.com/speleo/SpeleoPhilippines/blob/master/CodeLibrary/_layouts.tex > > You’ll then need to inject the code into your thconfig file using the > “input” command. > > > https://github.com/speleo/SpeleoPhilippines/blob/master/Region-2/Baggao/thconfig-BlueWater-System > > or you could just cut and paste it in. > > Hope this helps. Should at least get you in the right direction. > > Problem 1 has been discussed before and I agree, it is a pain. > > Henry > > > *From:* Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk > ] *On Behalf Of *Steven Tucker via Therion > *Sent:* 14 August 2017 17:29 > *To:* therion@speleo.sk > *Cc:* Steven Tucker > *Subject:* [Therion] Joining scraps and PDF layouts > > > Hello, > > I am busy completing a survey of a cave and I am running into two problems > with the final PDF > First problem. > There are water areas that cross over two scraps and the water is coloured > blue. In the PDF file, the line where the two scraps join show a thin white > line. The kml and loch files don't show any split between the joint scraps. > > > Any idea how to fix this? > Second problem. > > I would like to display the cave name, scalebar etc in one area of the PDF > and have my legend in a seperate area of the PDF, but I can't figure out > how to do this. > > Any help will be much appreciated! > > Thanks in advance, > Steven > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Fwd: Aven in stereoscopic 3D
Apologies for cross posting, but I think this is of general interest to Therion users too. I had not heard of this route to view 3D cave models in a stereoscopic viewer before. If Loch could export models in a standard 3D model format including the landscape overlays it would open up 3D viewing options. E.g. A side-by-side image pair video signal can be viewed in full colour 3D on many 3D TV sets and projectors. Loch does not provide a side by side option currently. If it could export models to a format another viewer can show then it gives a quick route to display models in this sort of way. Footleg -- Forwarded message - From: Jarvist Moore Frost Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 00:07 Subject: Re: Aven in stereoscopic 3D To: Pedro Silva Pinto Cc: sur...@survex.com Perhaps easiest is to extract the data & use with a more mainstream viewer. I had a lot of luck with Pymol (designed for biological molecules / molecular dynamics), and Thomas Holder's python library for directly importing .3d data: https://github.com/jarvist/migovecsurveydata/tree/master/scripts/pymol Example video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s68V9EsRvmE Pymol is open source, but a lot of the web links direct you to the pay version. Pymol supports all kinds of weird and wonderful 3D outputs, including shutter glasses. Mainly I've just used the 'cross eyed' stereo and anaglyph (coloured 3D specs). Back in ~2011 I wrote a C program that linked to Survex and exported the .3d file to a '.CGO' set of graphics primitives. This was a bit more clunky, but also worked fine. Best, Jarv On 30 January 2018 at 20:50, Pedro Silva Pinto wrote: > Hi, > > Is there any way I could take advantage of the OpenGL 3D capabilities of my > Nvidia Quadro graphics card and see my surveys in Aven in Stereoscopic 3D? > > Regards > > Pedro > > > -- ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] How to combine two maps
Hi Bill, I generally put just one .th file in my thconfig file, and that .th file represents all the caves I want to process with that config. My master .th file then includes the different .th files for different caves, and also contains the equates to link them together (where they are joined by survey data). Footleg On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 2:27 PM Bill Gee via Therion wrote: > Hello everyone - > > > > Well, that turned out to be easy! I was fearing a huge conglomerated mess > of entries in a thconfig and *.th file. It turned out to be some relatively > simple mods to thconfig. > > > > As noted by several people - I put each cave survey in its own directory. > Each directory contains a master .th file and a thconfig file. For bigger > projects I create a subdirectory for each survey trip which contains the > centerline data and all scanned sketches from that trip. It also contains > the .th2 files. > > > > One of the centerline data files (usually the first one) contains the GPS > coordinates of the cave and also specifies the entrance station. > > > > To create the combined map, I created a new survey directory. It contains > only a thconfig file. The thconfig file names the three cave surveys like > this: > > > > # Name the three input caves > > source ../AllieSpringCaveSurvey/AllieSpringCave.th > > source ../MillCreekCaveSurvey/MillCreekCave.th > > source ../ShiftyRockPit/ShiftyRockPit.th > > > > The layout sections are exactly the same as in the thconfig files for each > cave. The TeX code that I have for changing the size of the legend is also > identical, as is the MetaPost code for drawing my custom symbols. > > > > At the bottom of the thconfig file I listed the exports. The only thing I > changed was the export file names. Everything else is the same as in the > thconfig files for each cave. > > > > # The main plan map > > export map -proj plan -layout mainmapnocolor -o CaveRanch.pdf > > > > # The main map for printing > > export map -proj plan -layout mainmapprint -o CaveRanchPrint.pdf > > (continue for kml, lox and 3d files) > > > > When I ran therion with this thconfig file, it Just Worked! The first > time! I was astounded. The output files contain all three cave maps and > they are properly located relative to each other. WooHoo! That was easy! > > > > The next adventure will happen when the link between two of the caves is > finally surveyed. The use of an "equate" statement has been mentioned. That > needs to go in a .th file - right? Which means, in the end, there will be > four .th files mentioned in the thconfig. Is that right? > > > > Thanks for all the help and suggestions. > > -- > > Bill Gee > > > > > > > On Friday, February 16, 2018 10:57:27 PM CST Bruce Mutton via Therion > wrote: > > > Hi Bill > > > > > > I think you have the answers you need already, but I’ll add my two bits > > > anyway. > > > > > > I do almost the same as Ladislav. > > > > > > Sounds like your caves are or should be part of one Therion project > (simply > > > because they are in the same general locality). No need to change > anything > > > other than to make sure all of the existing cave folders are collected > > > together in a single project folder (as in the image below). > > > > > > In the example below, my project folder is th_TakakaValley/trunk (the > > > /trunk is just an artefact of the version control system we use) and > there > > > are 7 caves. > > > > > > The other folders are for outputs and standardised layout files. > > > > > > I use a flat structure these days, ie each individual cave has its own > > > folder, with INDEX*.th and thconfig files, which is entirely > self-contained > > > (except for the output and standard files folders) so an individual cave > > > can be easily moved to any other folder location and still compile with > > > little fuss. > > > > > > > > > > > > Below, the INDEXTakakaValley.thc ties together all of the caves in the > > > project, and puts them on the same map. If two or more of the caves were > > > joined, then I would just create another INDEX file in the top level > > > project folder, eg INDEXBaigentsBreweryCaves.thc, and possibly matching > > > thconfg and layout files. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you download the latest development version of Therion, you can use a > > > lookup to specify particular colours for each of the caves, as described > > > > https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/examples?s[]=lookup#colour_scales_-_lookups > > > < > https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/examples?s%5b%5d=lookup#colour_scales_-_loo > > > kups> (half way down the page). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Wrong average calculation from compass/backcompass data
The correct way to average bearings is to the treat them as vectors, then average the x and y components separately before converting the resulting vector back to a bearing. It is likely this is what the trig functions mentioned in this thread are doing. Footleg On Fri, 18 May 2018 at 12:57, Bruce Mutton via Therion wrote: > I agree to some extent with both sentiments below, however the software > should not abort just because of backsight discrepancies. > > What about adding one more line to the Therion and or Survex log file; > either > > “There are no backsights in the centreline”, or > > “Maximum backsight discrepancy is xx [degrees|grads]”, as approprite > > That way the user can be fully informed and make their own decision about > whether to investigate further if the information is not what they expect. > > Bruce > > > > 17. 5. 2018 v 9:25, Evaristo Quiroga via Therion : > > > > In this case is not a problem with my formula, is a serious magnetic > anomaly (100 degrees difference) and the program should to stop and to > send a warning. > > > > Evaristo, > > > > Therion is a program to interprete your data, not to solve problems with > your data. > > > > It is your responsibility what the data you import into Therion. > > > > Martin S. > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] SDs for distoX surveys
In my own experience, the most common blunder which the 'measure 3 times' method with DistoX2 catches is mis-read distance. The Disto tends to be used in the same orientation for all 3 shots, so the compass and clino tend to be well aligned in all 3 (regardless of how well calibrated the DistoX is, or is there are local magnetic fields throwing the compass). But the laser does sometimes miss the target and overshoot, resulting in one of the 3 shots being out of tolerance for PocketTopo to count them as a valid leg. Of course catching blunders so they never make it into the data (we would reshoot when it happens) is not the same as the SD in the measured data. The way we catch bad calibration problems or local magnetic interference is to take backshots (3 of them). This has saved serious errors on multiple occasions which would not have been detected taking shots in one direction alone. Footleg ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Compass (.dat) to Therion (.th) converter?
You might also find the Cave Converter tool I wrote of some use. It doesn't convert to Therion, but it can read Compass.dat and convert to Survex. The survex files are not too difficult to then convert into Therion in a text editor: http://wscc.darkgem.com/caveconverter/ Footleg On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 11:18, Marco Menchise via Therion wrote: > Wow, I didn't know about that page, thanks... > > Maybe I missed it because I googled in English and Marco wrote it in > Italian (quite unusual for him :-) ) > > Thanks, > Marco > > > Il giorno lun 7 gen 2019 alle ore 12:09 Tom via Therion > ha scritto: > >> Hi, >> >> in handling compass data I use the procedures described in this wiki >> page, written by Marco Corvi, which unfortunately I have found it only in >> italian language. >> In it is linked also a very nice perl script to convert dat files in >> therion. >> >> Tom >> >> Il giorno lun 7 gen 2019, 12:02 Torsten Schnitter via Therion < >> therion@speleo.sk> ha scritto: >> >>> Hi Marco >>> >>> I have an excel macro tool which I use for such tasks. >>> >>> I have done this for my own and I'm using this Excel tool as my >>> "database" for survey data. >>> You can import different formats like compass, walls, therion, mnemo, >>> pockettopo into Excel. >>> And you can export to formats for Therion, Walls and Compass. >>> This tool is still under progress but may be a help for your task. >>> >>> Unfortunately you can use it only with Windows and Excel. >>> Let me know if you are interested. >>> >>> cheers, >>> Torsten >>> >>> Marco Menchise via Therion hat am 7. Januar 2019 um >>> 11:35 geschrieben: >>> >>> Hello, >>> does anybody know if such a converter is available? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Marco >>> >>> ___ >>> Therion mailing list >>> Therion@speleo.sk >>> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion >>> >>> ___ >>> Therion mailing list >>> Therion@speleo.sk >>> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion >>> >> ___ >> Therion mailing list >> Therion@speleo.sk >> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion >> > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion