[TMIC] thanks for recommendations of rehabs
Thank you all for the recommendations of the rehab centers.? My god-daughter will be picking up the emails off the list, if she hasn't already done so.? If anyone has anything in addition to add, please do so.? I think she is going to see the patient again today that is looking for this information. Isn't it great how we always come through for each other? Hugs, Barbara A
Fw: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
- Original Message - From: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net To: bgunny7...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) Gunny and Debbie, Thanks for the information which I did not mean to ignore. Sorry to imply all research is with aborted fetuses. My point still is that, adult stem cell research should not be looked upon as inferior to fetal stem cell research when, in fact, to my knowledge, adult stem cell research has been successful. As is often the case, politics often becomes a major issue. My point also was to defend President Bush's decision to not support the embryonic research with tax dollars since, in my opinion, it was morally questionable and, secondly, not necessary for stem cell research. I'll end my comments at this embryonic stage of the discussion before I get in deeper than my limited knowledge and intellect can go but I wanted to express what bit of the subject I am aware of and believe in. Gary - Original Message - From: bgunny7...@aol.com To: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) In a message dated 3/25/2009 11:06:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net writes: Our former president, George W. Bush, so direspectfully referred to on this list as dumdum, was simply against the use of our tax money for embryonic stem cell research in consideration for those opposed, on moral grounds, to the use of aborted fetuses. Stem cell research was not stopped. It has widely been proclaimed (even on this list) that adult stem cell research has actually been more successful than embryonic cell research Not necessarily aborted fetus's. Embryonic stem cells can be grown in a petri dish simply by marrying a male sperm with a female egg. It has nothing to do with an abortion at all. Adult stem cells have already been programmed, which are taken from an adult human, to make that persons body. When taken, they are cleaned by a process known as plasma pheresis, then reinjected into that same person. An embryonic stem cell has NOT been programmed to make anything yet. It can be coaxed to do so where an adult cannot. An embryo is considered just that because it does not become a fetus until it is infused with blood. That process doesn't happen until twenty eight days after conception, and, it has no brain. Taking that into consideration, it is not alive. It can become so if implanted into a female uterus, but not until. So, in all actuality, it just sits in that petri dish doing absolutely nothing. I hope this gives you better insight as to what an embryonic stem cell is. Gunny -- Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
Gary, thanks so much for this. I cringed, too, when I saw the former president characterized this way. I don't mind civil discussions of differences of opinions, but name-calling of anyone should not be a part of the process. There are many things I disagree with the current president about, but I would never call him names out of respect for his position. I appreciated Deb's clarifications. Nevertheless, there has been great, promising research using adult stem cells. One article is here: _http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080606102603.htm_ (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080606102603.htm) And another article about the man who began stem cell research (and who did use an embryo then) is here: _http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/22/science/22stem.html?_r=1_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/22/science/22stem.html?_r=1) Even he says in the article, 'If human embryonic stem cell research does not make you at least a little bit uncomfortable, you have not thought about it enough,” he said, and he has found ways to do it now without embryos. Barbara H. _http://barbarah.wordpress.com/_ (http://barbarah.wordpress.com/) In a message dated 3/25/2009 12:12:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dca...@earthlink.net writes: I will make just a short statement regarding this, as I do not wish to become involved in a debate. Dr. Kerr has stated in all of his talks that the BIGGEST mistake in the very beginning was to even give it the name embryonic stem cells. They are NOT embryos. They are NOT aborted fetuses. They are blastocysts - only two cells that could not ever survive outside of a petri dish on their own. Because the scientists made this mistake in the beginning of giving it the name embryonic stem cell, all of the right-to-life people came out and attacked this research from the git-go. If you view the talks from all of our symposia at _http://www.myelitis.org/events.htm_ (http://www.myelitis.org/events.htm) and listen carefully to Dr. Kerr's talks on stem cell research, you will have better knowledge of this. Regarding the idea of going out of the country to receive treatments, Dr. Kerr has also discussed this. The research is there, but the follow-up on the patients is lacking, so they have no record of how the patients did AFTER they left the country to go back home. Take care, Debbie - Original Message - From: _gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net_ (mailto:gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net) To: _Westgold_ (mailto:westg...@interlog.com) ; _Amanda Diskey_ (mailto:adis...@yahoo.com) ; _tmic-l...@eskimo.com_ (mailto:tmic-list@eskimo.com) Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) Our former president, George W. Bush, so disrespectfully referred to on this list as dumdum, was simply against the use of our tax money for embryonic stem cell research in consideration for those opposed, on moral grounds, to the use of aborted fetuses. Stem cell research was not stopped. It has widely been proclaimed (even on this list) that adult stem cell research has actually been more successful than embryonic cell research. _http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/_ (http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/) What should be of concern is the attitude, manifest in the new presidential administration, of disregard for sanctity of life. Surely such thinking in our governmental leadership would tend to provoke questioning as to compassion for TM'ers, especially those in adult years. Rather an irony-- a claim to compassion to help the suffering yet being quick to reinstate tax money for research which gives a boost to the abortion industry! I am not, by far, as learned as I would like to be on this subject, but just wish to include the opposite side to those who seem to hear that fetal embryonic research is the only answer to finding relief for those suffering from conditions such as ours (and, of course, worse). Gary in Michigan - Original Message - From: _Westgold_ (mailto:westg...@interlog.com) To: _Amanda Diskey_ (mailto:adis...@yahoo.com) ; _tmic-l...@eskimo.com_ (mailto:tmic-list@eskimo.com) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell Hi -- there have been many success stories all over the world with stem cells, I am so glad our new president decided to let the researchers get back to it in a big way. You can google stem calls + various diseases, or stem cells + success, etc, and you'll get a lot of stuff. There were twin girls who went to China for stem cells a couple years ago, and they were helped tremendously. You used to be able to find their stories by googling stem cells + twins + Toronto -- try that. I personally believe that now that the research is back under way full steam, we will be seeing amazing things happening in just a year or two. Too bad those 8 years of
Re: [TMIC] going to DC
Hi Patti, We went to DC in Jan for my father-in-laws funeral at Arlington Natnl. Cemetery and decided it was now or never to show the kids DC. What ever your needs are I encourage you to take this tour bus: http://www.tourmobile.com/disability.phpand not the other ones. I believe it cost us $32 per adult a day and we could get on and off at will. I am walking wounded and would have been in agony if I had to walk from monument to monument. I gave you the disability page so you can discuss your needs with them. this is the only tour that has Natln. park service affiliation (and the monuments are a natnl. park) and be happy there are accommodations at all the monuments to allow full access regardless of your level of ability. So enjoy yourself and wear an Obama button (the workers will be friendlier) Mindy the Artist Jeanne What a story! You couldn't make that up if you tried and I think it's better (or worse) than anything I've seen on House. Your miracle is that you lived long enough to get to the right hospital and that they started you on steroids. Thanks for sharing the details. You brought up the subject of maneuverability and I need help dealing with it. I decided it was time to go to Washington DC - a long-time desire of my hubby and myself. I always use a cane and have a wheelchair that I loaned out a year ago, but could get back. I quit wearing my AFO after two years because my feet burn and I prefer to wear shoes that I can take off every time I sit down (even in public.) I looked pitiful sitting with my brace beside me letting my feet breathe. So, I will need to use a walker and/or be pushed in a wheelchair in Washington and am concerned about my hubby lifting the chair in and out of our car. I have looked at 3 wheeled walkers that would be easier to maneuver in crowds, 4 wheeled walkers of all kinds, a 4 wheeled that turns into a transport chair ($400), and just a simple transport chair itself A transport chair is a wheelchair for being pushed in, with (4) ten-inch wheels instead of the large wheels on the back for self-maneuvering. The transport chair ! is about 12 lbs. lighter than my wheelchair and would be easier to get into my small car. The 4 wheeled walker that turns into a wheelchair is $400 on-line. A transport wheelchair is $200 at Walmart. I can buy a 3-wheeled or a 4- wheeled walker for $50 each on Craigslist. What would YOU take to Washington DC? What will I need? How will I feel using one for the first time? I DON'T want to have to use any of them! I'm ANGRY! Patti - Michigan Need a job? Find employment help in your area.
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
Several weeks ago I went to a Meet the Scientist meeting for the Reeve Irvine Research Center held at the University of CA, Irvine. Both Dr. Oz Steward and Dr. Hans Keirstead of RIRC agree with Dr Kerr. The stem cells are blastocysts not embros. They are not aborted embros. That would have required the embros to be attached to the mothers womb. Not maintained in a dish, frozen. As far as going out of the country for care, both of these doctors also agree with Dr. Kerr. They highly advise against doing it. There are some pretty ugly things that have happened to people that did go out the country. These occurances also have a negative impact on how people view the research that is being done. Original Message - From: Deborah Nord Capen To: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net ; Westgold ; Amanda Diskey ; tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) I will make just a short statement regarding this, as I do not wish to become involved in a debate. Dr. Kerr has stated in all of his talks that the BIGGEST mistake in the very beginning was to even give it the name embryonic stem cells. They are NOT embryos. They are NOT aborted fetuses. They are blastocysts - only two cells that could not ever survive outside of a petri dish on their own. Because the scientists made this mistake in the beginning of giving it the name embryonic stem cell, all of the right-to-life people came out and attacked this research from the git-go. If you view the talks from all of our symposia at http://www.myelitis.org/events.htm and listen carefully to Dr. Kerr's talks on stem cell research, you will have better knowledge of this. Regarding the idea of going out of the country to receive treatments, Dr. Kerr has also discussed this. The research is there, but the follow-up on the patients is lacking, so they have no record of how the patients did AFTER they left the country to go back home. Take care, Debbie - Original Message - From: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net To: Westgold ; Amanda Diskey ; tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) Our former president, George W. Bush, so direspectfully referred to on this list as dumdum, was simply against the use of our tax money for embryonic stem cell research in consideration for those opposed, on moral grounds, to the use of aborted fetuses. Stem cell research was not stopped. It has widely been proclaimed (even on this list) that adult stem cell research has actually been more successful than embryonic cell research. http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/ What should be of concern is the attitude, manifest in the new presidential administration, of disregard for sanctity of life. Surely such thinking in our governmental leadership would tend to provoke questioning as to compassion for TM'ers, especially those in adult years. Rather an irony-- a claim to compassion to help the suffering yet being quick to reinstate tax money for research which gives a boost to the abortion industry! I am not, by far, as learned as I would like to be on this subject, but just wish to include the opposite side to those who seem to hear that fetal embryonic research is the only answer to finding relief for those suffering from conditions such as ours (and, of course, worse). Gary in Michigan - Original Message - From: Westgold To: Amanda Diskey ; tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell Hi -- there have been many success stories all over the world with stem cells, I am so glad our new president decided to let the researchers get back to it in a big way. You can google stem calls + various diseases, or stem cells + success, etc, and you'll get a lot of stuff. There were twin girls who went to China for stem cells a couple years ago, and they were helped tremendously. You used to be able to find their stories by googling stem cells + twins + Toronto -- try that. I personally believe that now that the research is back under way full steam, we will be seeing amazing things happening in just a year or two. Too bad those 8 years of research were lost because of dumdum. - Original Message - From: Amanda Diskey To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:12 PM Subject: [TMIC] stem cell I found a hospital in Panama City, Panama affiliated with Johns Hopkins, and they say they can treat me with stem cells. The lady I spoke with says they have treated one person with TM and got good results. The cost is $30,000. What do you all think? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG -
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
Good info going back and forth! You all realize that this is what this site is all about...helping each other in this very way, educating and getting educated, plus caring enough for each other to take the time to share our feelings and thoughts. Thank you all...Jeanne in Dayton ---Original Message--- From: Cindy McLeroy Date: 3/25/2009 1:58:23 PM To: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net; Westgold; Amanda Diskey; tmic-l...@eskimo com Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) Several weeks ago I went to a Meet the Scientist meeting for the Reeve Irvine Research Center held at the University of CA, Irvine. Both Dr. Oz Steward and Dr. Hans Keirstead of RIRC agree with Dr Kerr. The stem cells are blastocysts not embros. They are not aborted embros. That would have required the embros to be attached to the mothers womb. Not maintained in a dish, frozen. As far as going out of the country for care, both of these doctors also agree with Dr. Kerr. They highly advise against doing it. There are some pretty ugly things that have happened to people that did go out the country. These occurances also have a negative impact on how people view the research that is being done. Original Message - From: Deborah Nord Capen To: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net ; Westgold ; Amanda Diskey ; tmic-l...@eskimo com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) I will make just a short statement regarding this, as I do not wish to become involved in a debate. Dr. Kerr has stated in all of his talks that the BIGGEST mistake in the very beginning was to even give it the name embryonic stem cells. They are NOT embryos. They are NOT aborted fetuses. They are blastocysts - only two cells that could not ever survive outside of a petri dish on their own. Because the scientists made this mistake in the beginning of giving it the name embryonic stem cell, all of the right-to-life people came out and attacked this research from the git-go. If you view the talks from all of our symposia at http://www.myelitis org/events.htm and listen carefully to Dr. Kerr's talks on stem cell research, you will have better knowledge of this. Regarding the idea of going out of the country to receive treatments, Dr. Kerr has also discussed this. The research is there, but the follow-up on the patients is lacking, so they have no record of how the patients did AFTER they left the country to go back home. Take care, Debbie - Original Message - From: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net To: Westgold ; Amanda Diskey ; tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) Our former president, George W. Bush, so direspectfully referred to on this list as dumdum, was simply against the use of our tax money for embryonic stem cell research in consideration for those opposed, on moral grounds, to the use of aborted fetuses. Stem cell research was not stopped. It has widely been proclaimed (even on this list) that adult stem cell research has actually been more successful than embryonic cell research. http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/ What should be of concern is the attitude, manifest in the new presidential administration, of disregard for sanctity of life. Surely such thinking in our governmental leadership would tend to provoke questioning as to compassion for TM'ers, especially those in adult years. Rather an irony-- a claim to compassion to help the suffering yet being quick to reinstate tax money for research which gives a boost to the abortion industry! I am not, by far, as learned as I would like to be on this subject, but just wish to include the opposite side to those who seem to hear that fetal embryonic research is the only answer to finding relief for those suffering from conditions such as ours (and, of course, worse). Gary in Michigan - Original Message - From: Westgold To: Amanda Diskey ; tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell Hi -- there have been many success stories all over the world with stem cells, I am so glad our new president decided to let the researchers get back to it in a big way. You can google stem calls + various diseases, or stem cells + success, etc, and you'll get a lot of stuff. There were twin girls who went to China for stem cells a couple years ago, and they were helped tremendously. You used to be able to find their stories by googling stem cells + twins + Toronto -- try that. I personally believe that now that the research is back under way full steam, we will be seeing amazing things happening in just a year or two. Too bad those 8 years of research were lost because of dumdum. - Original Message - From: Amanda Diskey To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:12 PM Subject: [TMIC] stem cell I found a hospital in Panama City, Panama affiliated with Johns Hopkins, and they say they can treat me
Re: Fw: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
The problem I have with defining life as Gunny has as not beginning until 28 days after conception (the joining of the male sperm and the female egg) is that once conception occurs the zygote contains all of the genetic information (DNA) necessary to become a child. Half of the genetic information comes from the mother's egg and half from the father's sperm. The zygot continues to divide, creating an inner group of cells with an outer shell. This stage is called a blastocyst. The inner group of cells will become the embryo, while the outer group of cells will become the membranes that nourish and protect it. To me it makes sense the life begins at conception, as a single cell zygote, since at that point it contains everything to make a unique, individual and continues to divide on it's own. It happens without brain. Embryonic stem cell come from the blastocyst stage 45 days post fertilization, at which time they consist of 50150 cells. Every biology reference I have found talks about the beginning of life being the union of the two gametes, the male and female reproductive cells of any species. Jim I suggest reading, Declaration On The Production And The Scientific And Therapeutic Use Of Human Embryonic Stem Cells http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdlife/documents/rc_pa_acdlife_doc_2824_cellule-staminali_en.html - Original Message - From: mailto:bgunny7...@aol.combgunny7...@aol.com To: mailto:gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.netgbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) In a message dated 3/25/2009 11:06:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mailto:gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.netgbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net writes: Our former president, George W. Bush, so direspectfully referred to on this list as dumdum, was simply against the use of our tax money for embryonic stem cell research in consideration for those opposed, on moral grounds, to the use of aborted fetuses. Stem cell research was not stopped. It has widely been proclaimed (even on this list) that adult stem cell research has actually been more successful than embryonic cell research Not necessarily aborted fetus's. Embryonic stem cells can be grown in a petri dish simply by marrying a male sperm with a female egg. It has nothing to do with an abortion at all. Adult stem cells have already been programmed, which are taken from an adult human, to make that persons body. When taken, they are cleaned by a process known as plasma pheresis, then reinjected into that same person. An embryonic stem cell has NOT been programmed to make anything yet. It can be coaxed to do so where an adult cannot. An embryo is considered just that because it does not become a fetus until it is infused with blood. That process doesn't happen until twenty eight days after conception, and, it has no brain. Taking that into consideration, it is not alive. It can become so if implanted into a female uterus, but not until. So, in all actuality, it just sits in that petri dish doing absolutely nothing. I hope this gives you better insight as to what an embryonic stem cell is. Gunny Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
tAs a mother who conceived (the natural way) 6 times but only gave birth to 2 live infants I feel qualified to remind the greater community that every successful conception does not equal a child born even in natural circumstances, much less conceptions that occur in a dish. I mourned each one of those miscarriages as a child lost even after my 2nd child was born and I knew in my heart that my family was complete and that I was done with the baby stage of my life. My experience also led me to the conclusion that a life that cannot survive outside the mother is not entitled to citizenship rights equal to that of the mother until it is mature enough to survive once the umbilical cord is cut (or has turned 18, which ever comes first). When I got my drivers license I asked for an organ donor sticker and informed my parents of my wishes in the event of my death. As a parent I could be called upon to make a similar decision should a child of mine suffer a life ending tragedy... that the purpose of his or her short life can take on new meaning by giving life to others. whether you consider them blastocysts or babies, the couples who conceived them have already made the decision that they will never be born and have a meaningful purpose outside the petri dish. I truly believe the parents should have the right to decide the fate regarding the use of their unused fertilized egg's stem cells as well. Just as Jehovah's Witnesses refuse blood transfusions on the basis of their beliefs, each one of us has the right to refuse any treatment we are uncomfortable with. but as for me, I donate blood (4 gallons), gave a sample to the bone marrow registry and if Dr. Kerr can use my middle aged eggs to heal others then he is welcome to them. Mindy the Artist The problem I have with defining life as Gunny has as not beginning until 28 days after conception (the joining of the male sperm and the female egg) is that once conception occurs the zygote contains all of the genetic information (DNA) necessary to become a child. Half of the genetic information comes from the mother’s egg and half from the father’s sperm. The zygot continues to divide, creating an inner group of cells with an outer shell. This stage is called a blastocyst. The inner group of cells will become the embryo, while the outer group of cells will become the membranes that nourish and protect it. To me it makes sense the life begins at conception, as a single cell zygote, since at that point it contains everything to make a unique, individual and continues to divide on it's own. It happens without brain. Embryonic stem cell come from the blastocyst stage 4–5 days post fertilization, at which time they consist of 50–150 cells. Every biology reference I have found talks about the beginning of life being the union of the two gametes, the male and female reproductive cells of any species. Jim I suggest reading, Declaration On The Production And The Scientific And Therapeutic Use Of Human Embryonic Stem Cells http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdlife/ documents/rc_pa_acdlife_doc_2824_cellule-staminali_en.html - Original Message - From: bgunny7...@aol.com To: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) In a message dated 3/25/2009 11:06:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net writes: Our former president, George W. Bush, so direspectfully referred to on this list as dumdum, was simply against the use of our tax money for embryonic stem cell research in consideration for those opposed, on moral grounds, to the use of aborted fetuses. Stem cell research was not stopped. It has widely been proclaimed (even on this list) that adult stem cell research has actually been more successful than embryonic cell research Not necessarily aborted fetus's. Embryonic stem cells can be grown in a petri dish simply by marrying a male sperm with a female egg. It has nothing to do with an abortion at all. Adult stem cells have already been programmed, which are taken from an adult human, to make that persons body. When taken, they are cleaned by a process known as plasma pheresis, then reinjected into that same person. An embryonic stem cell has NOT been programmed to make anything yet. It can be coaxed to do so where an adult cannot. An embryo is considered just that because it does not become a fetus until it is infused with blood. That process doesn't happen until twenty eight days after conception, and, it has no brain. Taking that into consideration, it is not alive. It can become so if implanted into a female uterus, but not until. So, in all actuality, it just sits in that petri dish doing absolutely nothing. I hope this gives you better insight as to what an embryonic stem cell is. Gunny Jim Lubin
RE: [TMIC] blood, tissue, organ donation
I, too, donate blood through the Red Cross in Canada with no problems. Margaret From: gor...@earthlink.net [mailto:gor...@earthlink.net] Sent: March-25-09 6:59 PM To: Lawrence King; tmic-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [TMIC] blood, tissue, organ donation Re: I donate blood (4 gallons), gave a sample to the bone marrow registry. I am interested that you give blood and bone marrow. I was told I could no longer donate because, although my TM was considered idiopathic (don't know what caused it), the possibility that it was an autoimmune factor led them to nix me as a blood donor as well as concerns about tissue and organ donation - with the exception of the corneas I believe. I haven't explored it since then and it has been ten years. Maybe things have changed. Can you enlighten me to the discussions you may have had concerning allowed donation? Thanks. - Original Message - From: Lawrence King mailto:we4king...@verizon.net To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Cc: Lawrence mailto:we4king...@verizon.net King Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) Re: I donate blood (4 gallons), gave a sample to the bone marrow registry.
Re: [TMIC] travel for medical purposes
I misplaced the original email on this subject, so I don't know who to address here, I apologize. I happened on this article today and thought it might be of interest. Regarding travelling abroad for serious medical care, or any medical care I guess, here is an interesting article the washington Post published: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/health/21patient.html?em - I would consider Googling and then calling on the person identified in this article as follows before I spent any money: But there are no comprehensive data that adequately compare overseas surgical outcomes or other quality measures to those used in the United States, said Dr. Sharon Kleefield of the Harvard Medical School and a specialist in overseas health care quality measures. No matter how high your hospital is rated, there are issues with regard to quality and safety when you travel for medical treatment, she said. [my highlight and bold] This is referenced in the above article but thought it was important enough to highlight: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/31/medicaltourism.pdf New AMA Guidelines on Medical Tourism
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
I know I am in the minority in my believes, but I do not believe in IVF that creates embryos to begin with. If these embryos were not being created to then there would be no so called leftover embryos. Are you aware that President Obama signed H.R. 1105, the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, on March 11th (2 days after signing the executive order to lift the ban on federal funding of embryonic stem cells) that contained the following: The text of Section 509 of the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, reads as follows: SEC. 509. (a) None of the funds made available in this Act may be used for(1) the creation of a human embryo or embryos for research purposes; or (2) research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death greater than that allowed for research on fetuses in utero under 45 CFR 46.204(b) and section 498(b) of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 289g(b)). (b) For purposes of this section, the term ''human embryo or embryos'' includes any organism, not protected as a human subject under 45 CFR 46 as of the date of the enactment of this Act, that is derived by fertilization, parthenogenesis, cloning, or any other means from one or more human gametes or human diploid cells. Guess he should have READ the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009 before signing it into law... I followed the link on http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/FY2009OmnibusAppropriationsActPublicReview/http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/FY2009OmnibusAppropriationsActPu blicReview/ to see if it was true, sure enough, it's in there http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/2009_Con_Bill_DivF.pdfhttp://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/2009_Con_Bill_DivF.pdf If you want to read it yourself, pg 128, lines 9 - 24. there are 2 pages inserted so it is page 130 of the pdf. At 05:25 PM 3/25/2009, Lawrence King wrote: whether you consider them blastocysts or babies, the couples who conceived them have already made the decision that they will never be born and have a meaningful purpose outside the petri dish. I truly believe the parents should have the right to decide the fate regarding the use of their unused fertilized egg's stem cells as well. Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org
Re: [TMIC] blood, tissue, organ donation
I called the red cross and told them my history, listed my medications and asked them to investigate if I was still eligible and a few days later I was told I could resume donating. Mindy the Artist On Mar 25, 2009, at 8:58 PM, gor...@earthlink.net wrote: Re: I donate blood (4 gallons), gave a sample to the bone marrow registry. I am interested that you give blood and bone marrow. I was told I could no longer donate because, although my TM was considered idiopathic (don't know what caused it), the possibility that it was an autoimmune factor led them to nix me as a blood donor as well as concerns about tissue and organ donation - with the exception of the corneas I believe. I haven't explored it since then and it has been ten years. Maybe things have changed. Can you enlighten me to the discussions you may have had concerning allowed donation? Thanks. - Original Message - From: Lawrence King To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Cc: Lawrence King Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) Re: I donate blood (4 gallons), gave a sample to the bone marrow registry.
Re: [TMIC] travel for medical purposes
correction: NY Times Health section, not the Washington Post - Original Message - From: gor...@earthlink.net To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] travel for medical purposes I misplaced the original email on this subject, so I don't know who to address here, I apologize. I happened on this article today and thought it might be of interest. Regarding travelling abroad for serious medical care, or any medical care I guess, here is an interesting article the washington Post published: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/health/21patient.html?em - I would consider Googling and then calling on the person identified in this article as follows before I spent any money: But there are no comprehensive data that adequately compare overseas surgical outcomes or other quality measures to those used in the United States, said Dr. Sharon Kleefield of the Harvard Medical School and a specialist in overseas health care quality measures. No matter how high your hospital is rated, there are issues with regard to quality and safety when you travel for medical treatment, she said. [my highlight and bold] This is referenced in the above article but thought it was important enough to highlight: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/31/medicaltourism.pdf New AMA Guidelines on Medical Tourism
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
Jim, I do respect your beliefs and your extensive knowledge regarding stem cell research. I'm guessing you would consider treatment derived from adult lines but might decline so called embryonic lines. I'm sure we'd all be relieved if adult stem cells turned out to be the best solution after all. As for the Omnibus Appropriations act I admit my BFA degree doesn't help me understand the legal language used in such bills. Could you interpret it in common language? Mindy the Artist On Mar 25, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Jim Lubin wrote: I know I am in the minority in my believes, but I do not believe in IVF that creates embryos to begin with. If these embryos were not being created to then there would be no so called leftover embryos. Are you aware that President Obama signed H.R. 1105, the “Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009,” on March 11th (2 days after signing the executive order to lift the ban on federal funding of embryonic stem cells) that contained the following: The text of Section 509 of the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, reads as follows: SEC. 509. (a) None of the funds made available in this Act may be used for (1) the creation of a human embryo or embryos for research purposes; or (2) research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death greater than that allowed for research on fetuses in utero under 45 CFR 46.204(b) and section 498(b) of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 289g(b)). (b) For purposes of this section, the term ‘‘human embryo or embryos’’ includes any organism, not protected as a human subject under 45 CFR 46 as of the date of the enactment of this Act, that is derived by fertilization, parthenogenesis, cloning, or any other means from one or more human gametes or human diploid cells. Guess he should have READ the “Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009 before signing it into law... I followed the link on http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ FY2009OmnibusAppropriationsActPu blicReview/ to see if it was true, sure enough, it's in there http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/2009_Con_Bill_DivF.pdf If you want to read it yourself, pg 128, lines 9 - 24. there are 2 pages inserted so it is page 130 of the pdf. At 05:25 PM 3/25/2009, Lawrence King wrote: whether you consider them blastocysts or babies, the couples who conceived them have already made the decision that they will never be born and have a meaningful purpose outside the petri dish. I truly believe the parents should have the right to decide the fate regarding the use of their unused fertilized egg's stem cells as well. Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
What a very special note, Mindy...Thank you for sharing with us..Jeanne ---Original Message--- From: Lawrence King Date: 3/25/2009 7:27:14 PM To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Cc: Lawrence King Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) tAs a mother who conceived (the natural way) 6 times but only gave birth to 2 live infants I feel qualified to remind the greater community that every successful conception does not equal a child born even in natural circumstances, much less conceptions that occur in a dish. I mourned each one of those miscarriages as a child lost even after my 2nd child was born and I knew in my heart that my family was complete and that I was done with the baby stage of my life. My experience also led me to the conclusion that a life that cannot survive outside the mother is not entitled to citizenship rights equal to that of the mother until it is mature enough to survive once the umbilical cord is cut (or has turned 18, which ever comes first). When I got my drivers license I asked for an organ donor sticker and informed my parents of my wishes in the event of my death. As a parent I could be called upon to make a similar decision should a child of mine suffer a life ending tragedy... that the purpose of his or her short life can take on new meaning by giving life to others. whether you consider them blastocysts or babies, the couples who conceived them have already made the decision that they will never be born and have a meaningful purpose outside the petri dish. I truly believe the parents should have the right to decide the fate regarding the use of their unused fertilized egg's stem cells as well. Just as Jehovah's Witnesses refuse blood transfusions on the basis of their beliefs, each one of us has the right to refuse any treatment we are uncomfortable with. but as for me, I donate blood (4 gallons), gave a sample to the bone marrow registry and if Dr. Kerr can use my middle aged eggs to heal others then he is welcome to them. Mindy the Artist The problem I have with defining life as Gunny has as not beginning until 28 days after conception (the joining of the male sperm and the female egg) is that once conception occurs the zygote contains all of the genetic information (DNA) necessary to become a child. Half of the genetic information comes from the mothers egg and half from the fathers sperm. The zygot continues to divide, creating an inner group of cells with an outer shell. This stage is called a blastocyst. The inner group of cells will become the embryo, while the outer group of cells will become the membranes that nourish and protect it. To me it makes sense the life begins at conception, as a single cell zygote, since at that point it contains everything to make a unique, individual and continues to divide on it's own. It happens without brain. Embryonic stem cell come from the blastocyst stage 45 days post fertilization, at which time they consist of 50150 cells. Every biology reference I have found talks about the beginning of life being the union of the two gametes, the male and female reproductive cells of any species. Jim I suggest reading, Declaration On The Production And The Scientific And Therapeutic Use Of Human Embryonic Stem Cells http://www.vatican va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdlife/documents/rc_pa_acdlife_doc_2 24_cellule-staminali_en.html - Original Message - From: bgunny7...@aol.com To: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) In a message dated 3/25/2009 11:06:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net writes: Our former president, George W. Bush, so direspectfully referred to on this list as dumdum, was simply against the use of our tax money for embryonic stem cell research in consideration for those opposed, on moral grounds, to the use of aborted fetuses. Stem cell research was not stopped. It has widely been proclaimed (even on this list) that adult stem cell research has actually been more successful than embryonic cell research Not necessarily aborted fetus's. Embryonic stem cells can be grown in a petri dish simply by marrying a male sperm with a female egg. It has nothing to do with an abortion at all. Adult stem cells have already been programmed which are taken from an adult human, to make that persons body. When taken, they are cleaned by a process known as plasma pheresis, then reinjected into that same person. An embryonic stem cell has NOT been programmed to make anything yet. It can be coaxed to do so where an adult cannot. An embryo is considered just that because it does not become a fetus until it is infused with blood. That process doesn't happen until twenty eight days after conception, and, it has no brain. Taking that into consideration, it is not alive. It can become so if implanted into a female uterus, but not until. So in all actuality, it just sits in that petri dish doing
