What a very special note, Mindy...Thank you for sharing with us..Jeanne -------Original Message------- From: Lawrence King Date: 3/25/2009 7:27:14 PM To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Cc: Lawrence King Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) tAs a mother who conceived (the natural way) 6 times but only gave birth to 2 live infants I feel qualified to remind the greater community that every successful conception does not equal a child born even in natural circumstances, much less conceptions that occur in a dish.
I mourned each one of those miscarriages as a child lost even after my 2nd child was born and I knew in my heart that my family was complete and that I was done with the baby stage of my life. My experience also led me to the conclusion that a life that cannot survive outside the mother is not entitled to citizenship rights equal to that of the mother until it is mature enough to survive once the umbilical cord is cut (or has turned 18, which ever comes first). When I got my drivers license I asked for an organ donor sticker and informed my parents of my wishes in the event of my death. As a parent I could be called upon to make a similar decision should a child of mine suffer a life ending tragedy... that the purpose of his or her short life can take on new meaning by giving life to others. whether you consider them blastocysts or babies, the couples who conceived them have already made the decision that they will never be born and have a meaningful purpose outside the petri dish. I truly believe the "parents" should have the right to decide the fate regarding the use of their unused fertilized egg's stem cells as well. Just as Jehovah's Witnesses refuse blood transfusions on the basis of their beliefs, each one of us has the right to refuse any treatment we are uncomfortable with. but as for me, I donate blood (4 gallons), gave a sample to the bone marrow registry and if Dr. Kerr can use my middle aged eggs to heal others then he is welcome to them. Mindy the Artist The problem I have with defining "life" as Gunny has as not beginning until 28 days after conception (the joining of the male sperm and the female egg) is that once conception occurs the zygote contains all of the genetic information (DNA) necessary to become a child. Half of the genetic information comes from the mothers egg and half from the fathers sperm. The zygot continues to divide, creating an inner group of cells with an outer shell. This stage is called a blastocyst. The inner group of cells will become the embryo, while the outer group of cells will become the membranes that nourish and protect it. To me it makes sense the "life" begins at conception, as a single cell zygote, since at that point it contains everything to make a unique, individual and continues to divide on it's own. It happens without "brain". Embryonic stem cell come from the blastocyst stage 45 days post fertilization, at which time they consist of 50150 cells. Every biology reference I have found talks about the beginning of life being the union of the two gametes, the male and female reproductive cells of any species. Jim I suggest reading, Declaration On The Production And The Scientific And Therapeutic Use Of Human Embryonic Stem Cells http://www.vatican va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdlife/documents/rc_pa_acdlife_doc_20000 24_cellule-staminali_en.html ----- Original Message ----- From: bgunny7...@aol.com To: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) In a message dated 3/25/2009 11:06:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net writes: Our former president, George W. Bush, so direspectfully referred to on this list as "dumdum," was simply against the use of our tax money for embryonic stem cell research in consideration for those opposed, on moral grounds, to the use of aborted fetuses. Stem cell research was not stopped. It has widely been proclaimed (even on this "list") that adult stem cell research has actually been more successful than embryonic cell research Not necessarily aborted fetus's. Embryonic stem cells can be grown in a petri dish simply by marrying a male sperm with a female egg. It has nothing to do with an abortion at all. Adult stem cells have already been programmed which are taken from an adult human, to make that persons body. When taken, they are cleaned by a process known as plasma pheresis, then reinjected into that same person. An embryonic stem cell has NOT been programmed to make anything yet. It can be coaxed to do so where an adult cannot. An embryo is considered just that because it does not become a fetus until it is infused with blood. That process doesn't happen until twenty eight days after conception, and, it has no brain. Taking that into consideration, it is not alive. It can become so if implanted into a female uterus, but not until. So in all actuality, it just sits in that petri dish doing absolutely nothing. I hope this gives you better insight as to what an embryonic stem cell is. Gunny ---- Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org
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