Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
enemies of the cross DAVEH: I suspect you will disagree with me on this Kevin, but I do not consider myself to be an enemy of the cross. Quite the contrary, it is simply a device used by God's enemy to kill his Beloved Son. For that reason, I do not idolize the cross or adorn my body or edifices with the cross. Most other LDS folks feel much as I do about it. preaching of the cross DAVEH: Of course.it would be wrong in my opinion to hide the historical truth of what the cross is, or what it did to Jesus. That is precisely why I am having this discussion with TTers. I think the truth of what the cross represents is an important truth that is not appreciated by most Christians. Nor I am offended by seeing a picture of a cross, as it is a well recognized symbol of death. And in the context of theology, THAT is what THE cross did to Jesus.it killed him. Remembering and recognizing such an event is extremely important to my beliefs, as it should be to all Christians' beliefs. But I do not find myself attracted to the cross in such a way that it becomes an idol, or a memorial. Nor do I think it advantageous or in good taste to prominently display such a representation of a device of torture. Now I do realize that many Christians take comfort in seeing the cross, and closely identify with it's message as they perceive it. The problem is that much of the world recognizes the cross as a symbol of death. I wonder if Christians realize that when they adorn themselves and their houses of worship with a symbol that to many people might make them think that Christianity is a religion founded in death. I prefer not to think of the gospel of Jesus Christ that way. While that is certainly an event that happened to Jesus, and will happen to each mortal who walks this earth, I don't spend much time pondering its ramifications. Why?Because Jesus broke the bonds of death, and gave us life. As do many, I don't see life in the cross. If the mother of Jesus were to see a cross after the death of her Son by means of the cross, I suspect she would not see life there either. Nor do I think she would have been pleased at such a sight of remembrance. And if Jesus himself were to view a cross, I can only think the memories it would bring him would be less than pleasant ones. taketh not his cross DAVEH: I've seen guys walking along the highway, literally identifying with this passage. While I admire their fortitude and willingness to suffer in behalf of their beliefs, I do believe they take this passage out of context to satisfy their own needs. Kevin...I can only assume that you do not take this message to the literal extreme of carrying a cross around (whether it be a heavy wooden cross as those I've seen on the highway, or as jewelery) to give yourself psychological comfort? Instead, I believe this passage suggests that we are to bear the burdens of life in a Christian manner, following in the Lord's footsteps despite those burdens. Do you disagree, Kevin? But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. DAVEH: On the surface, that seems like a point in your favor, Kevin. But, do you find the tail end to be as interesting as I do?... by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. ..As I see it, Paul is saying that we should glory in that the Lord has literally sacrificed himself for our benefit, and we in turn should sacrifice (figuratively) ourselves to his will and the gospel. I don't see that Paul is saying that we should idolize the cross to bring glory to the Lord at all, but rather the cross represents the sacrifice Jesus made for us. In return, we should not be selfish in how we live our lives. An d that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross DAVEH: Yep.he's reaffirming that the cross killed Jesus. It is interesting that you would leave off the most important part of that verse, Kevin.. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: ..Wow...Point in my favor! Not only does Paul explain that the cross killed Jesus, but that Jesus overcame the pain, suffering and death caused by those who used the cross to torture him. In summary, if those are the passages most Christians use to justify their idolization and use of the device used to torture and kill our beloved Savior, I'd say you folks had better do some serious introspection of your theology. Why you would think the Catholics are screwed up for depicting Jesus' death on their crucifixes, and not recognize the perverse intent of the designers who used the cross to crucify our Lord, and then fail to understand true nature of the Protestant cross and how painfully it reflects the death of the One whose most elementary mission in life was to overcome death, defies my astonishment!
[TruthTalk] Perry's Sexually Suggestive Comments
If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! DAVEH: I wonder if Dean is going to rebuke you for making such sexually suggestive comments, Perry! If not, will we then have another example of hypocritical Christianity in TT? Charles Perry Locke wrote: Just be sure you remember your secret password and secret handshake so Joseph Smith will allow you entrance into heaven. If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off... Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:19:35 EST I guess I never got to know you, Christine--but hope to meet you in the great beyond--you may be required to testify at the Bar of God as to what you have seen and heard on TT-- Blainerb In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am signing off. I have gotten sucked into the world of TT, and I think it would be beneficial to my GPA to bid adeiu. Thanks for all the discussions. I have learned a great deal. May the Lord bless you and keep you all. It would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe not all in the same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-) -Christine Miller -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s)
Who specifically, are we talking about here? Kevin? :>) DAVEH: No...I don't think so, Blaine. If anybody is hung up on sexual stuff, it seems like Dean gets particularly excited (that may not be the best word to describe the situation) when the topic is broached. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who specifically, are we talking about here? Kevin? :>) Blainerb In a message dated 12/12/2005 8:14:09 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Very perceptive on your part, Dean. I have noticed this to be patently true. iz Satan led people are always accuses others of the very thing they are doing.. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
No doubt aboudit. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blainerb: Many Protestants seem to wear the cross as a way to make a statement of their Christian beliefs, but some, I think, wear it in much the same was as the Pharisees and Scribes wore phylacteries on their garments, and prayed in public--to be seen of men.
Re: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s)
Who specifically, are we talking about here? Kevin? :>) Blainerb In a message dated 12/12/2005 8:14:09 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Very perceptive on your part, Dean. I have noticed this to be patently true. iz Satan led people are always accuses others of the very thing they are doing..
Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off...
Just be sure you remember your secret password and secret handshake so Joseph Smith will allow you entrance into heaven. If lucky, you may become one of his many spirit wives! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off... Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:19:35 EST I guess I never got to know you, Christine--but hope to meet you in the great beyond--you may be required to testify at the Bar of God as to what you have seen and heard on TT-- Blainerb In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am signing off. I have gotten sucked into the world of TT, and I think it would be beneficial to my GPA to bid adeiu. Thanks for all the discussions. I have learned a great deal. May the Lord bless you and keep you all. It would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe not all in the same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-) -Christine Miller -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
In a message dated 12/12/2005 9:43:10 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kevin Deegan wrote: You note you see crosses on Tombs. I was wondering, do you ever see folks put the Inverted Star on their tombs? The one Satanists call the cloven hoof of Statan, which is on your Temples Blainerb: Oh , so now the inverted star represents a cloven hoof! What happened to the goat's head, Kevin? Getting confused in your old age? Oh, I get it! The stars on the American Flag are not inverted, so are cloven hoofs, but the ones on the Congressional Medal of Honor are inverted, so are goat's heads . Uh huh!!! What about the five-pointed stars on WW II fighter planes? Which are they, goats heads or cloven hooves?
Re: [TruthTalk] Congressional Medal of Honor--inverted pentagram
DAVEH: Blaine.it is not nice for you to point out the double standards of hypocritical Christians. That is my job! ;-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Three different United States Medals of Honor currently exist, one each for the Army, Navy, and Air Force. Blainerb: According to Kevin, the Medals of Honor shown here should be classified as symbols of Satanism, since they are inverted pentagrams!!! -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
Wrong Kevin, Satanic stars are ALL inverted. The ones on the temple are not all inverted, but scattered in different positions to give variety. In a message dated 12/12/2005 9:39:36 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic BibleDAVEH: I just googled images looking for that and did not see it, Kevin. Can you give me a URL (or post an image) for what you are talking about.Kevin Deegan wrote: Really don't you worry about it at all It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!!
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
do you ever see folks put the Inverted Star on their tombs DAVEH: No.stars are not the recognized symbol of death that the cross implies, Kevin. Sothere is no reason to see stars on tombs, unless the person buried there happened to be an astronomer, or perhaps liked stars from an artistic perspective. Kevin Deegan wrote: You note you see crosses on Tombs. I was wondering, do you ever see folks put the Inverted Star on their tombs? The one Satanists call the cloven hoof of Statan, which is on your Temples. >From: Dave Hansen >Subject: [TruthTalk] Cross >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:15:17 -0800 > >*/What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/* > >DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, >Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a >few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate >places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they >are buried... > > > > >..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized >the cross to depict the death of Jesus. > > > >...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some >Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their >abodes and places of worship. > > > >.As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring >not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device >that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument >was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to >punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always >amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a >devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many >who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it. > > I'm curious as to how you wou ld feel about something similar, Kevin. I >don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion >let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to >torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed >her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around >your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your >daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun & knife store, and >saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your >daughter..Would it bring back fond memories? > > LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. >But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think of >man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one who >did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cros s as do so many others. >Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not >the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son. > > FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years ago >put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at night >with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the >freeway > >http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm > >..This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the >cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a >distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road, >what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes >his death in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if he would wince at >such a sight. And..It bothers me to think that some would pain him in >such a callous way. > > >Kevin Deegan wrote: > >>Exactly they bought into the counterfeit. >>*How art thou _fallen from heaven_, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art >>thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast >>said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will _exalt my throne >>above the stars_ of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the >>congregation, in the sides of the north:...* >>*Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.* >> *North Star*, which represents *Jesus Christ. * >> */ >>What does the CROSS "REPRESENT" Blaine? >> /* > > >-- >~~~ >Dave Hansen >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://www.langlitz.com >~~~ >If you wish to receive >things I find interesting, >I maintain six emai l lists... >JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, >STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. > -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible DAVEH: I just googled images looking for that and did not see it, Kevin. Can you give me a URL (or post an image) for what you are talking about. Kevin Deegan wrote: Really don't you worry about it at all It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!! -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
he just winked as if to say I know DAVEH: I think I've winked at a few things you've said over years, Kevin. But if I were you, I wouldn't bet the farm on it meaning what you think my winks mean ;-) Kevin Deegan wrote: I learned about them at the Mormon temples. I pointed out multiple 666's at the nauvoo temple to one of the security guards, he just winked as if to say I know. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
[TruthTalk] Congressional Medal of Honor--inverted pentagram
Three different United States Medals of Honor currently exist, one each for the Army, Navy, and Air Force. Blainerb: According to Kevin, the Medals of Honor shown here should be classified as symbols of Satanism, since they are inverted pentagrams!!!
Re: [TruthTalk] Ursa Major and the North Star
DAVEH: FWIWAll constellations (and stars, for that matter) in the northern hemisphere appear to rotate around the North Star. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ursa Major, Dictionary definition: Ursa Major (The Big Dipper) n : a constellation outside the Zodiac that rotates around the North Star [syn: Great Bear, Ursa Major] -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
DAVEH: Yowe...taken a step furtheryou aren't suggesting Christians who consider the American medals below to be satanic symbols may not be that much different than Muslims who consider American military might to be satanic, are you Blaine? Even though they see Satan in everything they perceive about America's armed forces, I'm certain you are mistaken on this one, Blaine. (BTW..I'm trying to read your mind on this.I know you didn't use the word Muslim in this post, but I bet you were thinking about that comparison, eh Blaine!) :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "Universally accepted symbol for Satan?" What about the Congressional Medal of Honor??? Please note the pentagrams, all pointing downward THE MEDAL OF HONOR The highest award for valor in action against an enemy force which can be bestowed upon an individual serving in the Armed Services of the United States... --> LEARN MORE -- NEWS In a message dated 12/12/2005 8:17:54 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don't let your mind accept what your eyes see. It may look like the satanic star, it may have the same proportions as the satanic Star. it may align with the satanic star in every way if we overlay them, But it can not be a Satanic star since you say so. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! look this way & repeat after me "I know the church is true" Avert your eyes look away that is not the universally accepted symbol for Satan. repeat after me. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:51:24 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Vampires despise the cross also! Read this and cringe, Blaine and DaveH:"The Blood of Christ, shed on the Cross, prevails." iz Blainerb: Vampires are, like Kevins 5-pointed stars, about fictionalized characters. Satan does not have a goat's head, and Vampires are products of someone's over-active imagination, probably both invented to scare kids!!
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:42:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One of the best songs I ever heard was titled, “He Loved Me with a Cross”. iz One of the weirdest songs I ever heard was The Old Rugged Cross. It seemed to glorify the cross in a negative way. I doubt the Lord even to this day is overly fond of that old rugged cross. :>) Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
DAVEH: I did not know that you believed in vampires, Izzy. I was under the impression that vampires were contrived by Hollywood in order to suck money (rather than blood) from the pockets of those who naively think vampires are at all bothered by the cross. Naturally, I'm anxious to see any Biblical evidence to support your belief in this matter. "The Blood of Christ, shed on the Cross, prevails." DAVEH: Is this a quote from a Hollywood vampire film, Izzy???.So why would either Blaine or I cringe? ShieldsFamily wrote: Vampires despise the cross also! Read this and cringe, Blaine and DaveH: "The Blood of Christ, shed on the Cross, prevails." iz -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Blainerb: Many Protestants seem to wear the cross as a way to make a statement of their Christian beliefs, but some, I think, wear it in much the same was as the Pharisees and Scribes wore phylacteries on their garments, and prayed in public--to be seen of men. In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:36:09 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't think I used the work "glorified", did I? Or "idolized", even. I don't think Christians glorify or idolize it. I have never seen any Christians pray to it, although RCC do have it on a string of beads and they hold it when they pray. But, I do not think they are praying to the cross. Christians do not depict Christ on the cross because He is risen. The RCC depict him as crucified every day.If you want references, just search the NT for "cross" and see how often it is used by the apostles and Jesus himself as a symbol.Perry
Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox
DAVEH: I'm not sure what you are suggesting, Izzy. Does Satan not tempt non-LDS Christians? Or, are they just reluctant to admit such? ShieldsFamily wrote: When we took a young mormon couple with us to a medical meeting a few years ago I was talking with the newlywed wife while we were shopping together. I was shocked when she told me that she struggled with temptation towards another man that she worked with. Her husband was a precious young man, and they were newlyweds! izzy -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
[TruthTalk] Ursa Major and the North Star
Ursa Major, Dictionary definition: Ursa Major (The Big Dipper) n : a constellation outside the Zodiac that rotates around the North Star [syn: Great Bear, Ursa Major]
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
"Universally accepted symbol for Satan?" What about the Congressional Medal of Honor??? Please note the pentagrams, all pointing downward THE MEDAL OF HONOR The highest award for valor in action against an enemy force which can be bestowed upon an individual serving in the Armed Services of the United States... --> LEARN MORE-- NEWS In a message dated 12/12/2005 8:17:54 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don't let your mind accept what your eyes see. It may look like the satanic star, it may have the same proportions as the satanic Star. it may align with the satanic star in every way if we overlay them, But it can not be a Satanic star since you say so. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! look this way & repeat after me "I know the church is true" Avert your eyes look away that is not the universally accepted symbol for Satan. repeat after me.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point
[TruthTalk] Inverted stars on LDS Temples
One-Minute Answers by Stephen R. GibsonContents of One-Minute Answers Does the Temple Display Pentagrams?Question: Doesn't the Salt Lake Temple display satanic pentagrams on its exterior walls? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is viewed by some extremists among its critics to be a satanic cult. Those who view the Church in this light think they have discovered pentagrams on the Salt Lake Temple's exterior which they conclude are of the occult, and therefore, satanic in origin. Pentagrams are, by definition, any five-pointed, star-shaped figure. It is no secret that there are five-pointed stars on the outside walls of the Salt Lake Temple; they are there for all to see and admire. However, only those with a jaundiced eye to Mormonism would declare such symbols to be pagan and occult upon viewing them in person. James E. Talmage gives this description of these star stones: There are in the walls several series of stones of emblematical design and significance, such as those representing the earth, moon, sun, and stars, and in addition are cloud stones, and stones bearing inscriptions Star-Stones are numerous; each bears in relief the figure of a five-pointed star. On the east center-tower immediately below the battlements are sixteen of these, four on each face, and on each of the east comer towers are twelve such stones, making forty on these towers alone. The Keystones of the doorways and those of the window arches belong to this class, each bearing a single star. Star-Stones of another kind appear on the face of the center tower at the west. Here, above the highest window and extending to the base of the battlement course, are seen the seven stars of the northern constellation Ursa Major or Great Bear, otherwise known as the Dipper. The group is so placed that the two stars called Pointers are practically in line with the North Star itself (The House of the Lord, pp. 148-50). Five-sided stars have occasionally been used by Church members in various artistic expressions since the time of Joseph Smith. Some have noted their connection with Church newspapers, Nauvoo legion uniforms, with the concept of deseret, and with the genealogical society of the Church. These stars, for the most part, have been pentagrams only in the sense that they are five-sided stars. Extremist critics, however, lead unwitting readers to untrue assumptions. They first explain that inverted stars are known as "goat heads" and depict a goat's head within a star that has two points facing up, and then say that the stars on the temple also have two points facing up. What they do not mention is that the five-sided stars can be found placed at various angles, only occasionally having two points up. There are no goat's heads carved on these temple stars. Mormonism is vehemently opposed to anything satanic, and critics' allegations are therefore a distortion of the Church's position. No one argues that a certain type of pentagram is significant to members of the occult. But to imply that any use of any five-sided star constitutes allegiance to Satan flies in the face of reason. Numerous secular organizations, not least among them the Boy Scouts of America and the U.S. Government, have utilized five-pointed stars as part of their symbolism. Does that make them satanic as well? Are Americans who salute the flag and its fifty pentagrams unwittingly pledging their allegiance to Satan? Of course not. For most of today's Church members, the stars on the Salt Lake Temple are mainly decorative nuances around the windows and cornices of the temple. That some of them happen to be pointing downward has no significance other than to add variety to the arrangement. Among today's Church members there are those who interpret the stars as representing light and knowledge. Others see them as referring to the Telestial Kingdom. No other temple is similarly decorated. In his own time, Jesus also had to contend with those who allege his ministry was inspired and directed by Satan: "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils" (Matt. 12:24). Perhaps Jesus' response to this allegation is applicable for today's critics of his temple: Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? (Matt. 12:25-26)It is no secret that the LDS Church is opposed to Satan and his plan to enslave mankind. Why then, on the exterior of their temple, would they place symbols promoting this enslavement? The clear answer is that they did not do so. This allegation by extremist anti-Mormon critics is clearly without factual basis, and it typifies their penchant for maliciously attempting to portray the Church in
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
yo--leaving jt speechless for a spell, how many doctrinal demands do you detect in your own mind set? tell us how you decide/d this: is it none? one? more than one? On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:45:51 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:27:35 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: jt met a bear. The bear met jt The bear was bulgy. The bulge was jt[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: while there's (partic jts) doctrinal demandS, then there's more than one requirement for meaning (even in her own mind) On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: || No but, people will continue to do so. jt Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands?
[TruthTalk] Inverted Stars on LDS Temples
Blainerb: The following sites furnish the truth about Inverted stars on LDS Temples and what they mean: http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/Stars.pdf http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/pentagrams.htm Kevin, we will be awaiting your comments once your perfidy is uncovered.
Re: [TruthTalk] BLAINE/DAVE: PLEASE CONFIRM/DENY THIS ACCUSATION
Blainerb: "But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment" (Matt. 12:36). In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:41:04 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just like the "innocent" Satanic symbols all over the Temple, NO BIG THING.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/12/2005 5:05:19 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: IFF true then, will you explain the 'teaching' underlying this practice? IFF false then, tell us if this was EVER THE CASE? We usually try to avoid discussions of what is done in LDS Temples--not because there is anything wrong going on, but because those ignorant --totally ignorant--of what is done would welcome the opportunity to blow anything described in innocence waaay out of proportion. In my opinion, Dean and Perry and Kevin lay in wait for just such opportunities. The best thing I can tell you is, it is all considered sacred and therefore not open to discussion. Bad enough these guys support waving under clothing with sacred symbols on it in public view.
Re: [TruthTalk]
Probably no interest on this one, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Isreal claims ancestry through Abraham to God. But there was no Israel from the beginning of earth's history to around 1600 BC or so. The Egyptians had their own culture, religion and mythology. The Jews really had no national identity at all. If if if the Egyptians had incorporated these people into their society in the early years, there would have been no Israel of God --- or, at the very least, Egyptian mythology and culture would have survived in Israel. But, the very fact of continued bondage IMO created an "us versus them" psychology that prevented Israel from being lost in the sea of Egyptian nuance. Their escape from Egypt was that of a people needing Divine help at the most basic levels of national existence. . They had no law or national structure. Their God of the past 400 years (of bondage) was a God of tradition and little more. We are talking about 2 to 3 million people (so some assert) leaving Egypt with absolutely no where to go, no way to survive militarily , a culture of bondage and defeat as the National Story, And when they got to the Red Sea, reality hit them between the eyes. This defeatist attitude becomes a part of their tradition and , perhaps, is an aspect of their repeated rebellion. It is almost as if they are the Divine Stepchild and they really don't care for this identiy. Does this have anything to do with fact that do not approach God as "Father God" ?? And what is Moses doing with the writing of Genesis if not collecting the oral traditions in an effort at presenting Iseal (this brandnew nation) with a history that it can claim as its own??? Perhaps he begins with the Beginning because this was the perfect place to start. .. contrasting the Egyptian mythologies of the beginnings of man with an account of a sovereign God and His creation. These Jews, freah out of Egypt, most definitely knew of the Egyptian stories. The contrast would have been startling. Whatever. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
Blainerb: If Kevin were honest with TT'rs, he would tell you the truth--the stars "plastered all over" the Salt Lake Temple, altho all five-sided, are not all inverted. Some are, some are not. They were placed there for decorative purposes, as well as symbolizing the North Star, the Morning star, the Star of Bethlehem, the Telestial Kingdom, the creations of God, etc. In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:39:12 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Really don't you worry about it at all It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!!
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
That is one of the problems with Mormonism Don't let your mind accept what your eyes see. It may look like the satanic star, it may have the same proportions as the satanic Star. it may align with the satanic star in every way if we overlay them, But it can not be a Satanic star since you say so. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! look this way & repeat after me "I know the church is true" Avert your eyes look away that is not the universally accepted symbol for Satan. repeat after me.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point. In a message dated 12/11/2005 6:32:11 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:So the North star points DOWN and looks just like the SATANIC star What a coincidence![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Good picture of part of the recently completed Nauvoo Illinois Temple, Kevin. But the star on the wall of the Temple represents the North Star, which represents Jesus Christ. Kevin you need to remove the beam from your eye and then the LDS eye will appear perfectly clear. Blainerb Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
RIGHT, In an interview with Gordon Hinckley he reveals that the LDS Religion is Kabaalistic and hidden everywhere in plain sight is the clues to the deeper Truths that Mormonism actually Worships the "Angel of Light" You have to be initiated to a much higher level, after you progress to the correct level, then you will be allowed to see the "True" light. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Refocus for Kevin. But the star on the wall of the Temple represents the North Star, which represents Jesus Christ. Kevin, can you show me one authoritative statement made by any LDS person in the know which supports your assertion that the stars on temple walls represent Satanism? It seems there would be such if what you say is true. In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:39:12 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Really don't you worry about it at all It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
I learned about them at the Mormon temples. I pointed out multiple 666's at the nauvoo temple to one of the security guards, he just winked as if to say I know. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blainerb: You seem to know a lot more than I do about satanic pentagrams . . . where did you learn so much? :>) In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:43:24 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Thatâs different from a distored, upside down satantic pentagram. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:45 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
To postulate that it, just kind of happened, is rediculous. Everything about the temple has a reason for being. Everything has been carefully planed. Orienting the whole temple towards the east and aligning it to the heavens but without concern for the orientation of the stars? CMON! The Temple itself is "SQUARED to the STARS" but don't worry about those stars on the building,it is just a chance happening. The Temple provides "Orientation for our journey in mortality" but it does not matter what it's oreintation of stars is? CMON! Symbolic stones on the Temple's exterior represent the degrees of eternal glory and other gospel principles, but not what they are universally accepted as? (Inverted Pentagram is satanic) "In 1878, a plan of the Temples exterior walls was purposely drafted to plot the exact location of each of the fifty moon-stones according to lunar phase, month and year. This was determined by observations made that year in anticipation of the next seasons building program when the moon-stones were to be laid. The individual most capable of such an observation was Orson Pratt In 1869, an astronomical observatory of wood and adobe was constructed specifically for him on the southeast corner of the Temple Block " The Salt Lake Temple: A Monument to a People, University Services, Salt Lake City, 1983[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In a message dated 12/12/2005 6:39:20 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:They aligned the whole temple with the stars in the sky but when they adorned it with symbols they had no concern for orientation. Now that is a BIG WHIOPPER!The only WHOPPER here is the one you constantly try to manufacture from your imagination. Blainerb Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:27:35 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: jt met a bear. The bear met jt The bear was bulgy. The bulge was jt[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: while there's (partic jts) doctrinal demandS, then there's more than one requirement for meaning (even in her own mind) On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: || No but, people will continue to do so. jt Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands?
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Refocus for Kevin. But the star on the wall of the Temple represents the North Star, which represents Jesus Christ. Kevin, can you show me one authoritative statement made by any LDS person in the know which supports your assertion that the stars on temple walls represent Satanism? It seems there would be such if what you say is true. In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:39:12 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Really don't you worry about it at all It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a
Re: [TruthTalk] BLAINE/DAVE: PLEASE CONFIRM/DENY THIS ACCUSATION
Just like the "innocent" Satanic symbols all over the Temple, NO BIG THING.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In a message dated 12/12/2005 5:05:19 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: IFF true then, will you explain the 'teaching' underlying this practice? IFF false then, tell us if this was EVER THE CASE?We usually try to avoid discussions of what is done in LDS Temples--not because there is anything wrong going on, but because those ignorant --totally ignorant--of what is done would welcome the opportunity to blow anything described in innocence waaay out of proportion. In my opinion, Dean and Perry and Kevin lay in wait for just such opportunities. The best thing I can tell you is, it is all considered sacred and therefore not open to discussion. Bad enough these guys support waving under clothing with sacred symbols on it in public view. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
Really don't you worry about it at all It is probably not important that you have the same Star plastered ALL Over the Salt Lake temple as the one on the front cover of the Satanic Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!! Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of pap...
I watched a M. Moore interview in which he proudly proclaimed a willingness to lie to establish a political victory. -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark Twain used to say there were three kind of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. When it comes to Michael Moore there are five kind of lies. Kay S. Hymowitz wrote an excellent article, âMichael Moore, Humbugâ that digs deep down into the muck and deceit that is Michael Moore. Hymowitz wrote, âthe five Michael Moore lies are, bold-faced lies, lies of omission, artistic lies, slanted insinuating lies, and lies of exaggeration.â Michael Moore, is he an anti-Mormon? If he's not, he should be . . . Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
Blainerb: You seem to know a lot more than I do about satanic pentagrams . . . where did you learn so much? :>) In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:43:24 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That’s different from a distored, upside down satantic pentagram. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:45 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point.
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
In a message dated 12/12/2005 6:39:20 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They aligned the whole temple with the stars in the sky but when they adorned it with symbols they had no concern for orientation. Now that is a BIG WHIOPPER! The only WHOPPER here is the one you constantly try to manufacture from your imagination. Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
You would know--I would not. Blainerb In a message dated 12/12/2005 5:21:27 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about them? The stars all over your temples are exactly like the Satanic star of the CRAFT![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point.
truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Blainerb: As I have indicated before, the plates were finally delivered to him on September 22, 1827. He was born on December 23, 1805. In a message dated 12/12/2005 5:08:19 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: How old was J.Smith when he did these great feats? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 10:44:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-A&E Else how could joe have moved them According to Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon was “engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long and not quite so thick as common tin The volume was something near six inches in thickness”(Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, v3:9, March 1, 1842, 707.) They have been figured to be around 200lbs if gold. A block of solid tin measuring 7 x 8 x 6 inches, or 288 cubic inches, would weigh 74.67 pounds. If one allows for a 30 percent reduction due to the unevenness and space between the plates, the package would then weigh 52.27 pounds. Using the same calculations, plates of gold weigh 140.50 pounds; copper, 64.71 pounds; a mixture of gold and copper, between 65 and 140 pounds. (Vogel, The Making of a Prophet, 600) The plates were secreted about three miles from home. . . Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home. After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. He was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running (Lucy's Book, pp. 385-386, Biographical Sketches, by Lucy Smith, pp. 104-105). Amazing strength Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: gold platesDAVEH: I might add that it is my understanding that they had the appearance of gold. Whether or not the content was actually 100% gold is something that is debatable.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a set of gold plates by Joseph Smith Jr. The plates were an abridgement of more extensive records by a Nephite named Mormon, and his son, Moroni.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
In a message dated 12/12/2005 3:50:02 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The resurrection was the defeat of deathand Satan. Removing the guarded stone blocking the entrance, and rising from the tomb was the symbol of Satan's defeat, Perry. Perhaps you should consider hanging a millstone about your neck.. I love it!! Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] BLAINE/DAVE: PLEASE CONFIRM/DENY THIS ACCUSATION
In a message dated 12/12/2005 5:05:19 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: IFF true then, will you explain the 'teaching' underlying this practice? IFF false then, tell us if this was EVER THE CASE? We usually try to avoid discussions of what is done in LDS Temples--not because there is anything wrong going on, but because those ignorant --totally ignorant--of what is done would welcome the opportunity to blow anything described in innocence waaay out of proportion. In my opinion, Dean and Perry and Kevin lay in wait for just such opportunities. The best thing I can tell you is, it is all considered sacred and therefore not open to discussion. Bad enough these guys support waving under clothing with sacred symbols on it in public view.
Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off...
I guess I never got to know you, Christine--but hope to meet you in the great beyond--you may be required to testify at the Bar of God as to what you have seen and heard on TT-- Blainerb In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am signing off. I have gotten sucked into the world of TT, and I think it would be beneficial to my GPA to bid adeiu. Thanks for all the discussions. I have learned a great deal. May the Lord bless you and keep you all. It would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe not all in the same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-) -Christine Miller
Re: [TruthTalk] Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of pap...
Mark Twain used to say there were three kind of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. When it comes to Michael Moore there are five kind of lies. Kay S. Hymowitz wrote an excellent article, “Michael Moore, Humbug” that digs deep down into the muck and deceit that is Michael Moore. Hymowitz wrote, “the five Michael Moore lies are, bold-faced lies, lies of omission, artistic lies, slanted insinuating lies, and lies of exaggeration.” Michael Moore, is he an anti-Mormon? If he's not, he should be . . . Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
In a message dated 12/11/2005 11:24:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken It was never "taken" from Masonic symbols--you are attaching WAAAY too much significance to a star on a wall--what you come across as doing is Grabbing At Straws!!
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
Algy met a bear. The bear met Algy. The bear was bulgy. The bulge was Algy. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: while there's (partic jts) doctrinal demandS, then there's more than one requirement for meaning (even in her own mind) On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:|| No but, people will continue to do so.jt Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands? Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
RE: [TruthTalk] Cross
You note you see crosses on Tombs. I was wondering, do you ever see folks put the Inverted Star on their tombs? The one Satanists call the cloven hoof of Statan, which is on your Temples. >From: Dave Hansen >Subject: [TruthTalk] Cross>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:15:17 -0800>>*/What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/*>>DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, >Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a >few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate >places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they >are buried...>..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized >the cross to depict the death of Jesus....which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some >Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their >abodes and places of worship..As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring >not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device>that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument >was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to >punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always >amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a >devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many >who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it.>> I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I>don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion >let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to >torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed>her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around >your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your >daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun & knife store, and>saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your>daughter..Would it bring back fond memories?>> LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. >But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think of >man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one who>did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many others. >Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not >the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son.>> FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years ago >put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at night >with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the >freeway>>http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm>>..This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the >cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a >distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road, >what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes >his death in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if he would wince at >such a sight. And..It bothers me to think that some would pain him in>such a callous way.>>>Kevin Deegan wrote:>>>Exactly they bought into the counterfeit.>>*How art thou _fallen from heaven_, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art>>thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast>>said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will _exalt my throne >>above the stars_ of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the >>congregation, in the sides of the north:...*>>*Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.*>> *North Star*, which represents *Jesus Christ. *>> */>>What does the CROSS "REPRESENT" Blaine?>> /*>>>-->~~~>Dave Hansen>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://www.langlitz.com>~~~>If you wish to receive>things I find interesting,>I maintain six email lists...>JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,>STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.>--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may knowhow you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Sh
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the crossTerry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Christ did not tell us to take up a borrowed tomb, Dave. We are told to take up our cross. Those wearing one are sending a messsage that they follow Christ. Those with one marking their grave are saying the same thing. This, of course, is not always true, but that cannot be helped. Anything good will always be faked.To answer your other question, I criticize almost every thing about the Catholic religion. They are as screwed up as the Mormons. Don't even try to understand. It would be a waste of time. IMO, of course, and that is a shame.TerryDave Hansen wrote:> *The cross, like the tomb, is empty.*>> DAVEH: So why don't Christians hang a symbol of the tomb (stone) > around their neck or decorate their edifices with something less > representative of the tools of God's enemies? As I see it, the tomb > was at least a sacred place, where Jesus' friends were relatively > comfortable. It was also a place where they cared for Jesus' body, > and near where Mary first saw the resurrected Christ. To me, it > would be far more significant than the instrument that brought such > pain, misery and death to our Lord. I just don't understand why > anybody would glorify something that was glorified by the enemies of > Jesus.>> BTW.Do you criticize the RCC practice of > idolizing/memorializing the crucifix? I don't see much distinction > between what they do, and what most non Catholic Christians do in > their glorification of the cross. Just because one depicts the actual > usage of the cross to bring pain and death to our Savior isn't much > different to me than a cross that remained after Jesus was killed and > hauled off to the tomb.>> _* I think you are missing something important here*_>> DAVEH: No Terry.I don't think I'm missing anything, Terry. > Lest you forget, Christ arose from the tombnot the cross. Terry Clifton wrote:>>> _* I think you are missing something important here*_ Dave. *The >> cross, like the tomb, is empty.* Jesus won the victory (for us). >> The only people who still have Him on the cross are Catholics. We >> "Protestants" celebrate an empty cross. The one we deserved was >> occupied by another, but, Praise God, no more. The empty cross is a >> precious reminder of how much we are loved.>> Terry Dave Hansen wrote:> */What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/*>> DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with >>> Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've >>> seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite >>> often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case >>> of cemeteries.where they are buried...>>> ..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have >>> idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus. ...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. >>> Some Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying >>> crosses in their abodes and places of worship. .As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to >>> bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but >>> also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. >>> This inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's >>> children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a >>> humiliating and degrading way. It always amazes me that some >>> Christians would have such an affinity to such a devilish device >>> that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many who see >>> it, and especially to those who were victims of it.>> I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, >>> Kevin. I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of >>> this discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to >>> maliciously use a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days >>> to the point that the wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to >>> wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around your neck in the form of a >>> knife to remind you of what the guy did to your daughter? And, how >>> would you feel if you drove by a gun & knife store, and saw a sign >>> depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your >>> daughter..Would it bring back fond memories?>> LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our >>> behalf. But we don't
Re: [TruthTalk] Saving Faith -- what is it?
Is this fellow talking to himself or what? Maybe he and Gary are in cahoots. He asks the question and then he answers himself ... only Gary doesn't stop at one answer On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 02:59:14 +1100 "Andrew C. Bain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Question : "Who can declare what are the essential doctrines of soteriology?? All the doctrines are interconnected. The Scripture cannot be broken. So, anyone denying one doctrine, denies them all." My response: There are TWO issues here.
Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:05:10 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, you didn't answer the question. The gentile in Romans 2 IS NOT a regenerated individual. How do we know this? This is a person who has never heard the preaching of the law of God ( Paul contrasts hearing with doing in this context) AND his salvation is tenuous , at best, because it is based solely upon his ability to "naturally" obey the law apart from any spirit influence or knowledge of the law. You have changed the wording of Vs.14 from "When gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires" - to "naturally" obeying the law JD. Why? How do you know they never heard the preaching of the cross of Christ? The point of Romans 2 is the contrast between the have's and the have not's. The Gentiles are those who outside God's revelation and the Jews are those who are in. He is speaking to the Church in Rome JD; all believers are in and in Christ there is no separation between these ppl so why are you making one here? I am making one because Paul did. CAn't you read? He is the one who speaks of G-E-N-T-I-L-E-S and J-E-W and and contrasts them in terms of hearing the law and not having heard the law. You deny this? Only to make his larger point which is what he begins the 2nd chapter of Romans with, which is "therefore you have no excuse O man whoever you are for judging another - he then goes on to explain God's kindness which is meant to lead them to repentance and/or God's righteous judgment" His point is NOT racial differences. Paul begins with this scenario. Now I know that this is no longer true - but Paul is using this very distinction to teach that in Christ's economy, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is no longer important. Not only unimportant, it is no longer there unless the Jews are still practicing Judaism. Remember this is written in 57 AD 24yrs after the cross and in Rom 2:11 Paul announces that God shows NO partiality. "non-partiality" IS NOT the theme of this section of Romans 2, Judy ..inwardness verses the letter of the law is, hearing versus doing. In the passage THE GENTILE IS ONLY ONE DOING THE WUILL OF GOD BY NATURE..the Jew is not. He does go on in the rest of chapter 2 to contrast teaching the law to others while neglecting to obey it themselves dishonors God and makes them lawbreakers which is curious in the light of your teaching JD which is that following the cross the law is no more. The Gentile - typically speaking - is not God's chosen while the Jew is -- typically speaking . Using this stereotype, Paul makes the point that is most shocking to the Jewish Christian in Rome hearing is not the most important issue doing is. Why would Paul contradict (by what you see as a stereotype) what he had just said in Vs.11 JD? This makes no sense at all. The Jews had been trying to do God's Law since Moses came down from Mt. Sinai unsuccessfully. Judy, in Romans 2:23, who is NOT keeping the law -- the Jew or the Gentile? And who is doing the deeds of the law by "nature?" How did we get to Vs.23? I thought we were discussing Romans 2:14,15? Arn't you a bit ahead of yourself? Oh well! Let's just look at Paul's summary in Vs.29 which is "He is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal. His praise is not from men but from God. OK so the gentiles were able to do the law because they had circumcized hearts. IOW they were born of the Spirit so they were able to do "by nature" what is required by God's Law. The contrast of hearing and doing is unmistakable in 2:13-14. Hence, the Gentile has not heard the law. It is not there JD, you are reading this into the text. This is the perfect example of bias overwhelming reason. You are so convinced of the notion that unregenerated man cannot understand the will of God nor accomplish anything good that you cannot see what is being said here in Romans 2: 11ff. You don't see the words "Gentiles" and "Jew" in this text? You don't see the words "by nature" associated with the Gentiles only in this passage? You can't see this? Yes I can see the words JD - and I can understand them. There is nothing in the text about whether or not the gentiles who are by nature doing what is required in the law have or have not heard the preaching of the gospel. You have the old "us vs them" mentality that is accepted in many church circles. Think about it in light of the fall of man and the old sin nature How is an unregenerate gentile who has never heard of God's Law going to do what is required in it by their pagan nature? As far as unregenerated man not being able to do good -- wh
[TruthTalk] Saving Faith -- what is it?
Question : "Who can declare what are the essential doctrines of soteriology?? All the doctrines are interconnected. The Scripture cannot be broken. So, anyone denying one doctrine, denies them all." My response: There are TWO issues here. 1st -- as you said, anyone who repudiates any of the essential doctrines of the Scripture is actually repudiating God. This is my whole point about ASSURANCE of salvation. The Scripture says over and over again that ALL believers "ARE justified", "will NOT come into judgment", "ARE born of God", etc. Anyone praying to be justified/regenerated is admitting that they are NOT a believer. In fact, to say that you believe in the Resurrection of Christ, but to question your own salvation is to try to SEPARATE what God has joined together. God says, "if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that God raised Him from the dead, YOU SHALL BE SAVED." How could anyone possibly believe in the Resurrection and not be perfectly assured of their own salvation by Christ's finished work? Can someone believe God when He speaks about the Resurrection, but call Him a liar when He speaks about salvation for all who believe? The 2nd issue -- Clearly, there are some doctrines which believers can be confused about. For instance, the Corinthian believers for a while had a complete misunderstanding about the Lord's Supper. The rich were feasting and neglecting the poorer believers. Yet Paul calls these Corinthians "brothers" in Christ. Why? The Corinthians behaviour was sinful, but it did not prove that they were believing a false gospel. Contrast this, however, with those denying the Resurrection of the Dead. To deny this, is to deny Christ's Resurrection. 12 Now if Christ is being heralded that He has been roused from among the dead, how are some among you saying that there is no resurrection of the dead?13 Now if there is no resurrection of the dead, neither has Christ been roused.14 Now if Christ has not been roused, for naught, consequently, is our heralding, and for naught is your faith. 35 But someone will be protesting, "How are the dead being roused? Now with what body are they coming?"36 Imprudent one! What you are sowing is not being vivified if it should not be dying. This is not a major point of controversy with most Calvinists.The REAL debate surrounds the nature of saving faith. Most Calvinists are COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY IGNORANT about the simplicity of faith. They make faith emotional, mystical and into a work. It's impossible for them to have assurance of salvation. After all, how can they ever know they possess saving faith, if it is such an obscure, un-definable "act of the soul"??? If faith is intellectually un-definable and un-knowable, we cannot identify it in ourselves, and subsequently NEVER know whether or not we are justified. Then there are those who have not fallen into this snare of the devil. The know that faith is simply belief. And belief is to credit/assent/ be convicted / know a proposition. Therefore, saving faith is simply to believe the bare truth of the gospel, i.e. Christ has fulfilled the Law and been sacrificed for the Sheep. Faith is simple and definable. The gospel is simply and definable. This means that both can be IDENTIFIED in the mind easily. This is why Paul could say that ANYONE who cannot identify the doctrine of Christ in themselves, is lost. "Know not Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved?" Likewise, Christ said that believers will "NEVER thirst", but they have "a well of living water springing up to everlasting life." He says that not only does He know the Sheep, but He is "KNOWN OF MINE." For, even the faith of a mustard seed moves mountains, i.e., is without doubt. He that doubts is damned. For let not him that wavers/doubts expect anything from God !!! (James 1). Doubters are unbelievers.And this is why when Paul wrote to the Ephesians he addressed his epistle to "the saints and faithful" at Ephesus. The believers at Ephesus MUST have had a full assurance that they were saints. Otherwise, how would they have known the epistle was addressed to them?? Full assurance is the privilege of every believer.Andrew Bain Sydney, Australia http://www.xanga.com/andrew_c_bain
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
while there's (partic jts) doctrinal demandS, then there's more than one requirement for meaning (even in her own mind) On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: || No but, people will continue to do so. jt Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands?
Re: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s)
Haven't we all !!! -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:59:30 -0600Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s) Very perceptive on your part, Dean. I have noticed this to be patently true. iz Satan led people are always accuses others of the very thing they are doing..
Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit
-Original Message-From: Judy TaylorTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:25:25 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:42:37 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, you didn't answer the question. The gentile in Romans 2 IS NOT a regenerated individual. How do we know this? This is a person who has never heard the preaching of the law of God ( Paul contrasts hearing with doing in this context) AND his salvation is tenuous , at best, because it is based solely upon his ability to "naturally" obey the law apart from any spirit influence or knowledge of the law. How do you know he had never heard the preaching of the cross of Christ? He just didn't have the Law the way that the Jews did. The point of Romans 2 is the contrast between the have's and the have not's. The Gentiles are those who outside God's revelation and the Jews are those who are in. He is speaking to the Church in Rome JD; all believers are in and in Christ there is no separation between these ppl so why are you making one here? I am making one because Paul did. CAn't you read? He is the one who speaks of G-E-N-T-I-L-E-S and J-E-W and and contrasts them in terms of hearing the law and not having heard the law. You deny this? Paul begins with this scenario. Now I know that this is no longer true - but Paul is using this very distinction to teach that in Christ's economy, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is no longer important. Not only unimportant, it is no longer there unless the Jews are still practicing Judaism. Remember this is written in 57 AD 24yrs after the cross and in Rom 2:11 Paul announces that God shows NO partiality. "non-partiality" IS NOT the theme of this section of Romans 2, Judy ..inwardness verses the letter of the law is, hearing versus doing. In the passage THE GENTILE IS ONLY ONE DOING THE WUILL OF GOD BY NATURE..the Jew is not. T he Gentile - typically speaking - is not God's chosen while the Jew is -- typically speaking . Using this stereotype, Paul makes the point that is most shocking to the Jewish Christian in Rome.. hearing is not the most important issue doing is. Why would Paul contradict (by what you see as a stereotype) what he had just said in Vs.11 JD? This makes no sense at all. The Jews had been trying to do God's Law since Moses came down from Mt. Sinai unsuccessfully. Judy, in Romans 2:23, who is NOT keeping the law -- the Jew or the Gentile? And who is doing the deeds of the law by "nature?" The contrast of hearing and doing is unmistakable in 2:13-14. Hence, the Gentile has not heard the law. It is not there JD, you are reading this into the text. This is the perfect example of bias overwhelming reason. You are so convinced of the notion that unregenerated man cannot understand the will of God nor accomplish anything good that you cannot see what is being said here in Romans 2: 11ff. You don't see the words "Gentiles" and "Jew" in this text? You don't see the words "by nature" associated with the Gentiles only in this passage? You can't see this? It's the old "us vs them" mentality that is accepted in many church circles. Think about it in light of the fall of man and the old sin nature How is an unregenerate gentile who has never heard God's Law going to do it by nature? They would not even know what to do - never having been told. As far as unregenerated man not being able to do good -- why did Jonah go to Nineveh? Jonah was a prophet who had a ministry gift working in his life which he was trying to run from. Judy, you chuck and jive, giving no answers because your theology has no answers. It is empty. NEWS FLASH: NINEVEH REPENTED. The Roman believer (Jew or gentile) would have to be regenerated to 'DO BY NATURE' what is written in God's Law. Love is the fulfillment of the law and an unregenerated gentile would be unable to do this. Paul was speaking to the Church at Rome wasn't he? Not in Romans 2. He was addressing the Judaizing legalists of the Roman church in chapters 2, 3, 4. No he wasn't JD; the letter begins with an introduction and then in Vs.7 Paul writes "To all God's beloved in Rome, who are called to be saints ... this is who the letter is written to -the called out ones. Chapters 2,3,4 and 5 will have special import to the Jew. Romans 2:23 is a question of the Jewish Christian only, Judy. And , as often as not, he fails in this doing , by the way. If the phrase "by nature" means to include the indwelling of the Spirit, then the Jew in this passage DOES NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT, for he is clearly NOT doing the law "by nature." Your theology of Ro 2 has the Jew , in this passage lost and without the Spirit. But, of course, you do not believe that a nd so away you go. My so called theolog
RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox
When we took a young mormon couple with us to a medical meeting a few years ago I was talking with the newlywed wife while we were shopping together. I was shocked when she told me that she struggled with temptation towards another man that she worked with. Her husband was a precious young man, and they were newlyweds! izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Moore Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 5:56 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/12/2005 12:43:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox In a message dated 12/11/2005 4:05:23 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For instance??? Blainerb cd: Such as "depending on how tight the leather is"-and other sexual references-just showing your heart that is coming out of your mouth-the same as your prophet-defiled. Tch Tch, you were the one to draw a naughty conclusion, Dean, not me. Is this an example of the eye with the beam wanting to remove the mote? Let me see, weren't you also the guy who was certain women in the Mormon temples were getting all "oiled up.?" :>) cd: Actually that was Kevin who asked a high priests if he had put oil on any new brides lately-Case in point the Mormons get to put (with their hands) oil on the entire surface of the naked bodies on all young brides who get married in the temple. We tell them this is wrong. Correct me if I am wrong Kevin. Blaine is trying to find fault in me to cover his own sin of lusting after the flesh-usually Mormon things that I hate.
RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox
Please tell us your view of resting on the Saturday Sabbath. I hesitate to bring up the subject because of such stinking attitudes from some on TT. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Moore Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 5:44 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 3:42:17 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox Then theres the stuff that stinks.. cd: How can searching the deeper things of God ever do such? Have the almost(s) and the anti(s) Christians on this site cryied so loudly that we now can only discuss baby food (ie milk) so as to not stir the pot? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Moore Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:18 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 12:00:57 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox To let it lie there, I think. cd: But a pot of chile smells better when stirred-it releases wonder aroma into the air for all to enjoy. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Moore Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:41 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 10:19:34 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox I think we got it resolvedbetter not stir the pot. iz cd: Chicken? What was the conclusion? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Moore Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:07 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 8:43:36 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox Yes, welcome back Brother Dean. (Where were you when I was getting all beat up for loving the Saturday Sabbath?) iz cd: Thanks izzy. Care to send me a posting of this subject and I will be happy to take it up-with the rational minded. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Moore Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 4:57 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/10/2005 6:32:21 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox DAVEH: Welcome back, Dean! Despite your anti-Mormon bias, I am glad you have returnedeven if only temporarily cd: Taking you your anti-Christ bias in consideration I view your welcome as a spider speaking to a fly-He says:" Welcome to my dwelling place my friend ,nice to see you, come closer and sit by me and we will speak of older times and places far away". Dean Moore wrote: \Your author is nothing more than a cheap put-down artist bent on making Joseph Smith the true prophet look bad. cd:True prophet ? What makes him true? If one speaks wrongly can that one still hold the title of true Prophet-or is he just another hell bound unrepenting Mormon lusting after other women? Your actions of late also remove you own credibility as a man of God-and show us how Mormons really are-Yes a credit to your church. -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
RE: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s)
Very perceptive on your part, Dean. I have noticed this to be patently true. iz Satan led people are always accuses others of the very thing they are doing..
RE: [TruthTalk] Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of paper'
Again, I would fear spreading such smut against a Believer. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlin halverson Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 1:39 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of paper' Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of paper' http://contrarianistic.blogspot.com/ http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml
RE: [TruthTalk] CHRISTINE CLAIMS THAT I HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY
Good for you Christine. We need more Truth talkers like you on TT! It is sad to see professing Believers daring to speak against God’s anointed. It verges on blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I would fear to do such, which is why I’m careful about speaking against people I don’t know—I have to be VERY sure I know what I am talking about (such as JSmith.) I’d rather let it pass most of the time when claimed Believers are being dissected on TT. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christine Miller Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 12:13 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] CHRISTINE CLAIMS THAT I HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY You're right, Lance, I conceed that you do have some understanding of Christianity. I don't appreciate you equivocating my father to an Islamic jihadist. I take offense because I know my father very well, and your statement is false. He doesn't threaten to kill you over his viewpoints. He doesn't even dislike you if you disagree with him. He is not xenophobic. I got angry because you spoke against my father, yes. But because my father is also one of God's annointed, you have spoken not only against my father but against God's messenger. I know you will not like that I am saying this, but I wish to be frank on this matter because it is serious to me. The "hot" Christians, the Christians who chose not to be lukewarm, have almost nothing in common with the Islamic fundementalists. Light has no fellowship with the darkness. Please do not compare them: it shows your ignorance of the Light. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Why is that, Christine? Would it be due my believing that signs, t-shirts, and a variety of antics directed AT those one wishes to 'reach' with the love of Christ is somehow contradictory? Your recently expressed sentiments vis a vis feminists left me feeling sad; for you mostly. There is a contingent on TT, including our very own moderator, who bring dialogue to a level so low that...well...it's even lower than Lance's dialogue. NOW THAT'S LOW! Please take note that you didn't suggest that my UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY was, skewed, lacking, heretical, etc. ..You said that because of my remarks that i have NO understanding of Christianity. Is this an opinion, an inspired word for me, or just a bit of anger 'cause 'Dad' was included? - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 15:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas Lance wrote: their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred. Then you have no understanding of Christianity. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 'People get passionate about..traditions' Even on TT I noticed. Kevin, Dean and occasionally your Dad strike me as persons who are Christian counterparts to radicals that'd be found in Islam, Sikhism & militant Zionism where their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred. (IMO obviously). - Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 14:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-mas No, I have not read Bernard Lewis. Yes, my teacher calls herself a practicing Muslim, but she is a progressive Muslim, which are typically non-Arabic Muslims that don't take the Koran seriously and are vry Left in their political leanings. She is a crusading feminist. She converted to Islam from Christianity. She is African-American and born in the US. >From our discussions in class, she has almost no knowledge of traditional Islam. She could answer almost no questions. Fortunately, there were several Muslims in the class that could answer any inqueries. The issue of terrorism was only addressed on the last day of class, and it was not pretty. She is racist against the Jews, believes Israel is to be blamed for our troubles, and believes we are only in Iraq for the oil. She made it very clear that the terrorists do not hate America for irrational reasons, they hate America because we are Evil. Israel is evil. Our military strength is evil. Not that any culture is any better than another culture, of course. If we changed our foreign policies terrorism threats would cease. Because the terrorists are rational. Not irrational. Lance wrote: Do you see the similarities between a 'radical/fundamentalist' Muslim and a 'radical/fundamentalist' anything else? I see a difference between lukewarm religion and radical religion, yes. I call myself a radical Christian, full of passion for Jesus Christ. I believe that there are lukewarm Muslims just like there are lukewarm Christians, who practice their religion shrugingly, not too interested in truth or righteousness. But the catch is this: darkness is darkness. If you follow Allah, you are fighting for an untrut
truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Thanks for that, Iz. Very discerning! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 12, 2005 09:38 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-A&E JSmiths story is typical of the type of stories told by sociopaths. Ive had a bit of exposure to such types on more than one occasion, unfortunately. I once was part of a Christian writers group that was joined by a man who just didnt seem right to me. He gave me the creeps, and I felt uncomfortable around him. Everyone else was awed with his talent (which I couldnt see at all) and all the wonderful stories he told about himself doing good works, plus stories about how he had been mistreated and abused in his lifetime. He was so good at presenting himself as a fantastic Christian that a local Baptist church hired him as the youth minister. Meantime I continued to view him with suspicion, but couldnt figure out why I felt that way towards someone that everyone else thought was the perfect Christian. It wasnt until he started telling fantastic stories about how he had been alone at the church and men had broken in and assaulted him, etc., that the church started getting suspicious and fired him. He was exposed as a fraud, and shortly after that left town with his wife and two young sons. Years later this man was featured on a TV crime show as someone who had systematically, over the years, murdered his mother-in-law, his wife, and a couple of other people in his family. My friend who had befriended him and invited him into our group was very upset about it all. I get the same feeling about stories told by and about JSmith as I got from that fellow. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:42 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-A&E Sounds like a tough neighborhood. Joe must have been as full of grit as bad bad Leroy Brown.Kevin Deegan wrote: The plates were secreted about three miles from home. . . Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home. After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. He was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running (Lucy's Book, pp. 385-386, Biographical Sketches, by Lucy Smith, pp. 104-105). Amazing strength Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: gold platesDAVEH: I might add that it is my understanding that they had the appearance of gold. Whether or not the content was actually 100% gold is something that is debatable.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a set of gold plates by Joseph Smith Jr. The plates were an abridgement of more extensive records by a Nephite named Mormon, and his son, Moroni. In a message dated 12/10/2005 9:19:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: who are its authors? On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: .. The Book of Mormon is the word of God -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
RE: [TruthTalk] Cross
Vampires despise the cross also! Read this and cringe, Blaine and DaveH: "The Blood of Christ, shed on the Cross, prevails." iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 12:16 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Cross I hope you don't mind me intruding on your intrusion. I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat. Besides, Christ himself used the cross as a symbol, as did the Apostles. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me. And, it is a frequent reminder of the tremendous sacrifice Jesus paid for our sins. I just do not think of that when I see a beehive. Perry >From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >Subject: [TruthTalk] Cross >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:15:17 -0800 > >*/What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/* > >DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, >Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a >few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate >places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they >are buried... > > > > >..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized >the cross to depict the death of Jesus. > > > >...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some >Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their >abodes and places of worship. > > > >.As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring >not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device >that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument >was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to >punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always >amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a >devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many >who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it. > >I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I >don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion >let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to >torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed >her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around >your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your >daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun & knife store, and >saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your >daughter..Would it bring back fond memories? > >LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. >But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think of >man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one who >did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many others. >Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not >the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son. > >FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years ago >put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at night >with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the >freeway > >http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm > >.This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the >cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a >distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road, >what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes >his death in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if he would wince at >such a sight. And..It bothers me to think that some would pain him in >such a callous way. > > >Kevin Deegan wrote: > >>Exactly they bought into the counterfeit. >>*How art thou _fallen from heaven_, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art >>thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast >>said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will _exalt my throne >>above the stars_ of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the >>congregation, in the sides of the north:...* >>*Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.* >> *North Star*, which represents *Jesus Christ. * >> */ >>What does the CROSS "REPRESENT" Blaine? >> /* > > >-- >~~~ >Dave Hansen >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://www.langlitz.com >~~~ >If you wish to receive >things I find interesting, >I maintain six email lists... >JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, >STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. > -- "Let your speech be always with grace
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Christ did not tell us to take up a borrowed tomb, Dave. We are told to take up our cross. Those wearing one are sending a messsage that they follow Christ. Those with one marking their grave are saying the same thing. This, of course, is not always true, but that cannot be helped. Anything good will always be faked. To answer your other question, I criticize almost every thing about the Catholic religion. They are as screwed up as the Mormons. Don't even try to understand. It would be a waste of time. IMO, of course, and that is a shame. Terry Dave Hansen wrote: The cross, like the tomb, is empty. DAVEH: So why don't Christians hang a symbol of the tomb (stone) around their neck or decorate their edifices with something less representative of the tools of God's enemies? As I see it, the tomb was at least a sacred place, where Jesus' friends were relatively comfortable. It was also a place where they cared for Jesus' body, and near where Mary first saw the resurrected Christ. To me, it would be far more significant than the instrument that brought such pain, misery and death to our Lord. I just don't understand why anybody would glorify something that was glorified by the enemies of Jesus. BTW.Do you criticize the RCC practice of idolizing/memorializing the crucifix? I don't see much distinction between what they do, and what most non Catholic Christians do in their glorification of the cross. Just because one depicts the actual usage of the cross to bring pain and death to our Savior isn't much different to me than a cross that remained after Jesus was killed and hauled off to the tomb. I think you are missing something important here DAVEH: No Terry.I don't think I'm missing anything, Terry. Lest you forget, Christ arose from the tombnot the cross. Terry Clifton wrote: I think you are missing something important here Dave. The cross, like the tomb, is empty. Jesus won the victory (for us). The only people who still have Him on the cross are Catholics. We "Protestants" celebrate an empty cross. The one we deserved was occupied by another, but, Praise God, no more. The empty cross is a precious reminder of how much we are loved. Terry Dave Hansen wrote: What does the CROSS "REPRESENT" DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they are buried... ..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus. ...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their abodes and places of worship. .As I see it, those crosses depict the cruel tool used to bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it. I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun & knife store, and saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your daughter..Would it bring back fond memories? LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one who did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many others. Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son. FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years ago put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at night with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the freeway http://www.rollinghills.org/about_u
RE: [TruthTalk] Cross
One of the best songs I ever heard was titled, “He Loved Me with a Cross”. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:50 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross I think you are missing something important here Dave. The cross, like the tomb, is empty. Jesus won the victory (for us). The only people who still have Him on the cross are Catholics. We "Protestants" celebrate an empty cross. The one we deserved was occupied by another, but, Praise God, no more. The empty cross is a precious reminder of how much we are loved. Terry Dave Hansen wrote: What does the CROSS "REPRESENT" DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they are buried... ..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus. ...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their abodes and places of worship. .As I see it, those crosses depict the cruel tool used to bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it. I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun & knife store, and saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your daughter..Would it bring back fond memories? LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one who did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many others. Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son. FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years ago put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at night with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the freeway http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm .This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road, what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes his death in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if he would wince at such a sight. And..It bothers me to think that some would pain him in such a callous way. Kevin Deegan wrote: Exactly they bought into the counterfeit. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:... Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. North Star, which represents Jesus Christ. What does the CROSS "REPRESENT" Blaine? -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
RE: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
That’s different from a distored, upside down satantic pentagram. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:45 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point. In a message dated 12/11/2005 6:32:11 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So the North star points DOWN and looks just like the SATANIC star What a coincidence! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good picture of part of the recently completed Nauvoo Illinois Temple, Kevin. But the star on the wall of the Temple represents the North Star, which represents Jesus Christ. Kevin you need to remove the beam from your eye and then the LDS eye will appear perfectly clear. Blainerb
truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
How’d I guess? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:10 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-A&E I think the twelve tribes did each have one of the zodiac signs as its symbol-- Joseph was Taurus (each horn of the bull representing one of his sons--Ephraim and Mannasseh), Dan was Scorpio, Judah was Leo, Reuben was Aquarius, etc., but a book I own says there are more than twelve different personalities possible as symbolized by the zodiac--it was almost an infinite number, due to the 360 degrees in the zodiac circle, multiplied by the twelve signs, multiplied by 144 different sun-moon combinations, multiplied by the positions of the planets in the zodiac and their combinations with the sun and the moon and, etc.etc. etc. The number was 10 to the 332nd power! This would come a little closer to accounting for each unique personality than any personality theory I am aware of. In a message dated 12/10/2005 11:37:21 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Looks like you and I were born just a few days apart, Blaine. So wouldn’t that mean we are pretty much identical? (Disturbing thought!!!) Gee, there must only be 12 different kinds of folks in the world; kinda like the twelve tribes of Israel, huh? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 9:50 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-A&E Judy you're just too fixed on a one bible only theme. You would enjoy your life more if you would loosen up on that point a bit, huh? The Book of Mormon is the word of God, and see what you are missing? Tell me your birthday, maybe I can psych out your problem . . . :>) Blainerb
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JSmith’s story is typical of the type of stories told by sociopaths. I’ve had a bit of exposure to such types on more than one occasion, unfortunately. I once was part of a Christian writer’s group that was joined by a man who just didn’t seem right to me. He gave me the creeps, and I felt uncomfortable around him. Everyone else was awed with his “talent” (which I couldn’t see at all) and all the wonderful stories he told about himself doing good works, plus stories about how he had been mistreated and abused in his lifetime. He was so good at presenting himself as a fantastic Christian that a local Baptist church hired him as the youth minister. Meantime I continued to view him with suspicion, but couldn’t figure out why I felt that way towards someone that everyone else thought was the perfect Christian. It wasn’t until he started telling fantastic stories about how he had been alone at the church and men had broken in and assaulted him, etc., that the church started getting suspicious and fired him. He was exposed as a fraud, and shortly after that left town with his wife and two young sons. Years later this man was featured on a TV crime show as someone who had systematically, over the years, murdered his mother-in-law, his wife, and a couple of other people in his family. My friend who had befriended him and invited him into our group was very upset about it all. I get the same feeling about stories told by and about JSmith as I got from that fellow. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:42 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-A&E Sounds like a tough neighborhood. Joe must have been as full of grit as bad bad Leroy Brown. Kevin Deegan wrote: The plates were secreted about three miles from home. . . Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home. After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. He was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running (Lucy's Book, pp. 385-386, Biographical Sketches, by Lucy Smith, pp. 104-105). Amazing strength Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: gold plates DAVEH: I might add that it is my understanding that they had the appearance of gold. Whether or not the content was actually 100% gold is something that is debatable. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a set of gold plates by Joseph Smith Jr. The plates were an abridgement of more extensive records by a Nephite named Mormon, and his son, Moroni. In a message dated 12/10/2005 9:19:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: who are its authors? On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: .. The Book of Mormon is the word of God -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
I don't think I used the work "glorified", did I? Or "idolized", even. I don't think Christians glorify or idolize it. I have never seen any Christians pray to it, although RCC do have it on a string of beads and they hold it when they pray. But, I do not think they are praying to the cross. Christians do not depict Christ on the cross because He is risen. The RCC depict him as crucified every day. If you want references, just search the NT for "cross" and see how often it is used by the apostles and Jesus himself as a symbol. Perry From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:44:56 -0800 *I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat.* DAVEH: Really? As I see it, the cross was the most successful tool Satan could devise to torture and kill our beloved Lord. Everything else he tried failedbut, the cross did the job. The /*resurrection */was the defeat of deathand Satan. Removing the guarded stone blocking the entrance, and rising from the tomb was the symbol of Satan's defeat, Perry. Perhaps you should consider hanging a millstone about your neck.. How do you see it that Jesus and the Apostles glorified the cross? Did they idolize it, and turn it into jewelery? Was it displayed on their edifices? Or are those examples simply Christian traditions that lay no claim to Biblical validity? Biblical references would be appreciated. Charles Perry Locke wrote: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your intrusion. *I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat.* Besides, Christ himself used the cross as a symbol, as did the Apostles. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me. And, it is a frequent reminder of the tremendous sacrifice Jesus paid for our sins. I just do not think of that when I see a beehive. Perry */What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/* DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they are buried... ..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus. ...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their abodes and places of worship. .As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it. I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun & knife store, and saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your daughter..Would it bring back fond memories? LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one who did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many others. Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son. FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years ago put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at night with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the freeway http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm .This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road, what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes his death in such a
Re: [TruthTalk] PERRY DIRECTLY ACKNOWLEDGES ATTACKING ON THE FORUM HE MODERATES
As you like. From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] PERRY DIRECTLY ACKNOWLEDGES ATTACKING ON THE FORUM HE MODERATES Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:59:00 -0800 DAVEH: Does that mean I should reconsider thinking of you as a hypocritical Christian? :-) Charles Perry Locke wrote: I did and I do. But, with your aging selective memory, you probably would not recall that :-) Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] PERRY DIRECTLY ACKNOWLEDGES ATTACKING ON THE FORUM HE MODERATES Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:12:56 -0800 *There have been times when I have failed to make the distinction and used ad-hominem references* DAVEH:If you knew you did such Perry, then did you consider reprimanding yourself as you might reprimand another TTer for a similar transgression?IOWDo you hold yourself to the same standards as you would hold others? Charles Perry Locke wrote: As for my attacks on promoters of mormonism, I have explained that is is not the MESSENGER that I am attacking, but the ORIGINATOR of the messages. *There have been times when I have failed to make the distinction and used ad-hominem references*, but that certainly is not the rule with my anti-mormonism posts. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:42:37 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, you didn't answer the question. The gentile in Romans 2 IS NOT a regenerated individual. How do we know this? This is a person who has never heard the preaching of the law of God ( Paul contrasts hearing with doing in this context) AND his salvation is tenuous , at best, because it is based solely upon his ability to "naturally" obey the law apart from any spirit influence or knowledge of the law. How do you know he had never heard the preaching of the cross of Christ? He just didn't have the Law the way that the Jews did. The point of Romans 2 is the contrast between the have's and the have not's. The Gentiles are those who outside God's revelation and the Jews are those who are in. He is speaking to the Church in Rome JD; all believers are in and in Christ there is no separation between these ppl so why are you making one here? Paul begins with this scenario. Now I know that this is no longer true - but Paul is using this very distinction to teach that in Christ's economy, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is no longer important. Not only unimportant, it is no longer there unless the Jews are still practicing Judaism. Remember this is written in 57 AD 24yrs after the cross and in Rom 2:11 Paul announces that God shows NO partiality. T he Gentile - typically speaking - is not God's chosen while the Jew is -- typically speaking . Using this stereotype, Paul makes the point that is most shocking to the Jewish Christian in Rome.. hearing is not the most important issue doing is. Why would Paul contradict (by what you see as a stereotype) what he had just said in Vs.11 JD? This makes no sense at all. The Jews had been trying to do God's Law since Moses came down from Mt. Sinai unsuccessfully. The contrast of hearing and doing is unmistakable in 2:13-14. Hence, the Gentile has not heard the law. It is not there JD, you are reading this into the text. It's the old "us vs them" mentality that is accepted in many church circles. Think about it in light of the fall of man and the old sin nature How is an unregenerate gentile who has never heard God's Law going to do it by nature? They would not even know what to do - never having been told. As far as unregenerated man not being able to do good -- why did Jonah go to Nineveh? Jonah was a prophet who had a ministry gift working in his life which he was trying to run from. The Roman believer (Jew or gentile) would have to be regenerated to 'DO BY NATURE' what is written in God's Law. Love is the fulfillment of the law and an unregenerated gentile would be unable to do this. Paul was speaking to the Church at Rome wasn't he? Not in Romans 2. He was addressing the Judaizing legalists of the Roman church in chapters 2, 3, 4. No he wasn't JD; the letter begins with an introduction and then in Vs.7 Paul writes "To all God's beloved in Rome, who are called to be saints ... this is who the letter is written to -the called out ones. And , as often as not, he fails in this doing , by the way. If the phrase "by nature" means to include the indwelling of the Spirit, then the Jew in this passage DOES NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT, for he is clearly NOT doing the law "by nature." Your theology of Ro 2 has the Jew , in this passage lost and without the Spirit. But, of course, you do not believe that a nd so away you go. My so called theology is not judging any Jew one way or the other. I am not talking about judging the Jew, Judy. I am talking about your theology. First, you imply that "by nature" means the new nature, but then, in this passage only the Gentile has this "nature" thing going for him which means that the Jew does not. Paul is making a contrast between what is done "by nature" and what is not. You simply cannot sneak the Holy Spirit into any of this without serious contextual problems -- one of which I have mentioned. "By nature" simply cannot mean to include the "new nature." Why make this so complicated JD. The focus from Vs.6 on is "obeying the truth" vs judgment no matter which way one receives the truth as opposed to the wrath and fury that comes with disobedience - By Vs.12 Paul writes "All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law and all who have sinned under the law will be judged b
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
I, Judy, know 'the one who is' also. So do all, IMO, of the TT participants, with the possible exception of the Mormons. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 12, 2005 07:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 Is this the "summary of commentary" Lance? To begin with I have said over and over that I do not "interpret" God's Word; if He does not give understanding we are all flailing about in the dark. This is why there are so many theologians and theological differences. Secondly - Yes scripture has one meaning although ppl seem to get all kinds of moral teachings out of it. I wouldn't go so far as to say that DavidM or myself are in possession of ALL TRUTH but we know the one who is. On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Yes, Judy, IT IS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO THINK THEMSELVES MATURE. (think being the operative word). As I understand you both, you and David believe both your apprehension of and, your interpretation(s) of, Scripture to be 'Spirit-Inspired' (Does Scripture have ONE MEANING? Are both you and David always in possession of that ONE MEANING?) From: Judy Taylor My, my Lance, you've just run right off here into another subject entirely - Let's stick with the one at hand and see what God has to say about it ... Those prophets are messing with your head. 1 Cor 2:14 Juxtaposes the two kinds of wisdom - which are natural/worldly and spiritual or that from above. 1 Cor 1:20 "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased through the (incarnation)? ... foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe" There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44-46) There is wisdom from above and there is wisdom that is earthly, sensual and demonic (James 3:15) There are people who are spiritually minded and those who are worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit (Jude 19) Unless and until they repent the world can not receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17) God makes foolish the wisdom of the world (1 Cor 1:18-20) So lets stay on track and see what leads up to 1 Cor 2:14 .. Paul writes: 1 Cor 2:6 The wisdom we speak is not of this age nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away 1 Cor 2:7 We speak God's wisdom in a mystery . 1 Cor 2:8 The wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood ... 1 Cor 2:10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit for the Spirit searches all things even the depths of God 1 Cor 2:11 Who knows the thought of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him ... even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might know. 1 Cor 2:13 Which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom but in those taught by the Spirit combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words 1 Cor 2:14 But the natural (or worldly) man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. So how did "merely human" get into the conversation and where does the drug of sophistry come from? Paul is discussing two kinds of wisdom here - this is not about who the people think they are or mature/immature. On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:59:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: 'Someone who is merely human doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit. They are foolishness to such people, you see, and they can't understand them because they need to be discerned spiitually.' But spiritual people discern everything , while nobody else can discern the truth about them! For. 'Who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct him?' But we have the mind of the Messiah' Paul is now bringing his discussion of wisdom and folly, and spiritual maturity and immaturity, right down to where the Corinthians themselves are. They have been using the 'drug' of sophistry. supposing it makes them more 'spiritual'; and Paul declares that it has made them all the more human. The more they take the drug, the more
Re: [TruthTalk] CHRISTINE CLAIMS THAT I HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY
FUNDAMENTALIST J. Gresham Machen "the root of the movement (liberalism) is one; the many varieties of modern liberal religion are rooted in naturalism--that is, in the denial of any entrance of the creative power of God (as distinguished from the ordinary course of nature) in connection with the origin of Christianity...our principle concern...is to show that the liberal attempt at reconciling Christianity with modern science has really relinquished everything distinctive of Christianity, so that what remains is in essentials only that same indefinite type of religious aspiration which was in the world before Christianity came upon the scene. In trying to remove from Christianity everything that could possibly be objected to in the name of science, in trying to bribe off the enemy by those concessions which the enemy most desires, the apologist has really abandoned what he started out to defend...The plain fact is that liberalism, whether it be true of false, is no mere 'heresy'--no mere divergence at isolated points from Christian teaching. On the contrary it proceeds from a totally different root, and it constitutes, in essentials a unitary system of its own...It differs from Christianity in its view of God, of man, of the seat of authority and the way of salvation...Christianity is being attacked from within by a movement which is anti-Christian to the core." Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Lance has a DEEP Seated hatred of "Fundamentalists" AND you would be surprised as to who he sees as FUNDAMENTAL Your Dad & Judy have been called such. Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:You're right, Lance, I conceed that you do have some understanding of Christianity. I don't appreciate you equivocating my father to an Islamic jihadist. I take offense because I know my father very well, and your statement is false. He doesn't threaten to kill you over his viewpoints. He doesn't even dislike you if you disagree with him. He is not xenophobic. I got angry because you spoke against my father, yes. But because my father is also one of God's annointed, you have spoken not only against my father but against God's messenger. I know you will not like that I am saying this, but I wish to be frank on this matter because it is serious to me. The "hot" Christians, the Christians who chose not to be lukewarm, have almost nothing in common with the Islamic fundementalists. Light has no fellowship with the darkness. Please do not compare them: it shows your ignorance of the Light. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Why is that, Christine? Would it be due my believing that signs, t-shirts, and a variety of antics directed AT those one wishes to 'reach' with the love of Christ is somehow contradictory? Your recently expressed sentiments vis a vis feminists left me feeling sad; for you mostly. There is a contingent on TT, including our very own moderator, who bring dialogue to a level so low that...well...it's even lower than Lance's dialogue. NOW THAT'S LOW! Please take note that you didn't suggest that my UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY was, skewed, lacking, heretical, etc. ..You said that because of my remarks that i have NO understanding of Christianity. Is this an opinion, an inspired word for me, or just a bit of anger 'cause 'Dad' was included?- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 15:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masLance wrote:their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred.Then you have no understanding of Christianity. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 'People get passionate about..traditions' Even on TT I noticed. Kevin, Dean and occasionally your Dad strike me as persons who are Christian counterparts to radicals that'd be found in Islam, Sikhism & militant Zionism where their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred. (IMO obviously).- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 14:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masNo, I have not read Bernard Lewis.Yes, my teacher calls herself a practicing Muslim, but she is a progressive Muslim, which are typically non-Arabic Muslims that don't take the Koran seriously and are vry Left in their political leanings. She is a crusading feminist. She converted to Islam from Christianity. She is African-American and born in the US. From our discussions in class, she has almost no knowledge of traditional Islam. She could answer almost no questions. Fortunately, there were several Muslims in the class that could answer any inqueries. The issue of terrorism was only addressed on the last day of class, and it was not pretty. She is racist against the Jews, believes Israel is to be blamed for our troubles, and believes we are only in Iraq for the oil. She made it very clear that the terrorists do not hate America
truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Nobody knows since there are conflicting stories 14-19? when this fable occuredDean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: cd: How old was J.Smith when he did these great feats? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 10:44:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-A&EElse how could joe have moved them According to Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon was engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long and not quite so thick as common tin The volume was something near six inches in thickness(Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, v3:9, March 1, 1842, 707.) They have been figured to be around 200lbs if gold. A block of solid tin measuring 7 x 8 x 6 inches, or 288 cubic inches, would weigh 74.67 pounds. If one allows for a 30 percent reduction due to the unevenness and space between the plates, the package would then weigh 52.27 pounds. Using the same calculations, plates of gold weigh 140.50 pounds; copper, 64.71 pounds; a mixture of gold and copper, between 65 and 140 pounds. (Vogel, The Making of a Prophet, 600) The plates were secreted about three miles from home. . . Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home. After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. He was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running (Lucy's Book, pp. 385-386, Biographical Sketches, by Lucy Smith, pp. 104-105). Amazing strength Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: gold platesDAVEH: I might add that it is my understanding that they had the appearance of gold. Whether or not the content was actually 100% gold is something that is debatable.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a set of gold plates by Joseph Smith Jr. The plates were an abridgement of more extensive records by a Nephite named Mormon, and his son, Moroni. In a message dated 12/10/2005 9:19:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:who are its authors? On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: .. The Book of Mormon is the word of God -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s)
Lance stirs the pot calls Dean a BABY?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Such as these, Dean, do not determine what can/can't be said nor how it's to be said on TT! Did you not know this? Iz 'speaks' with a mature voice ('ceptin politically, of course), whereas I've never thought of you as anything other than a BABY. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 12, 2005 06:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 3:42:17 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox Then theres the stuff that stinks .. cd: How can searching the deeper things of God ever do such? Have the almost(s) and the anti(s) Christians on this site cryied so loudly that we now can only discuss baby food (ie milk) so as to not stir the pot? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 12/11/2005 12:00:57 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox To let it lie there, I think. cd: But a pot of chile smells better when stirred-it releases wonder aroma into the air for all to enjoy. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:41 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 12/11/2005 10:19:34 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox I think we got it resolvedbetter not stir the pot. iz cd: Chicken? What was the conclusion? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:07 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 12/11/2005 8:43:36 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox Yes, welcome back Brother Dean. (Where were you when I was getting all beat up for loving the Saturday Sabbath?) iz cd: Thanks izzy. Care to send me a posting of this subject and I will be happy to take it up-with the rational minded. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 4:57 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 12/10/2005 6:32:21 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox DAVEH: Welcome back, Dean! Despite your anti-Mormon bias, I am glad you have returnedeven if only temporarily cd: Taking you your anti-Christ bias in consideration I view your welcome as a spider speaking to a fly-He says:" Welcome to my dwelling place my friend ,nice to see you, come closer and sit by me and we will speak of older times and places far away".Dean Moore wrote: \Your author is nothing more than a cheap put-down artist bent on making Joseph Smith the true prophet look bad. cd:True prophet ? What makes him true? If one speaks wrongly can that one still hold the title of true Prophet-or is he just another hell bound unrepenting Mormon lusting after other women? Your actions of late also remove you own credibility as a man of God-and show us how Mormons really are-Yes a credit to your church. -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
The PEACE SYMBOL or Cross of Nero - Another sign that mocks the cross of Jesus. Also know as "The Dead Man Rune". It appears on the tombstones of some of Hitler's SS troops. Upside Down Cross - Symbolizes mockery and rejection of Jesus. Necklaces are worn by many satanist's. It can be seen on Rock singers and their album covers. Satanic Cross - Upside down question mark that questions the Deity of God. Within the occult it is the representation of the three crown princes; Satan, Belial and leviathan. Symbolizes complete power under Lucifer.Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat.DAVEH: Really? As I see it, the cross was the most successful tool Satan could devise to torture and kill our beloved Lord. Everything else he tried failedbut, the cross did the job. The resurrection was the defeat of deathand Satan. Removing the guarded stone blocking the entrance, and rising from the tomb was the symbol of Satan's defeat, Perry. Perhaps you should consider hanging a millstone about your neck.. How do you see it that Jesus and the Apostles glorified the cross? Did they idolize it, and turn it into jewelery? Was it displayed on their edifices? Or are those examples simply Christian traditions that lay no claim to Biblical validity? Biblical references would be appreciated.Charles Perry Locke wrote: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your intrusion. I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat. Besides, Christ himself used the cross as a symbol, as did the Apostles. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me. And, it is a frequent reminder of the tremendous sacrifice Jesus paid for our sins. I just do not think of that when I see a beehive. Perry */What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/* DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they are buried... ..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus. ...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their abodes and places of worship. .As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it. I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun & knife store, and saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your daughter..Would it bring back fond memories? LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one who did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many others. Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son. FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years ago put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at night with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the freeway http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm .This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road, what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes his death in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if he would wince at such a sight. And..It bothers me to think that some would pain him in such a callous way. Kevin Deegan wrote: Exactly they bought into the counterfeit. *How art
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
They aligned the whole temple with the stars in the sky but when they adorned it with symbols they had no concern for orientation. Now that is a BIG WHIOPPER!Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blaine, I'll bet you are dead wrong. Are you saying the temple designers just put it up randomly? No way. In symbolism, especially masonic symbolism, from which the mormon stuff was taken, every detail has meaning!Perry>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting >evil>Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:44:46 ESTWhat about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or>the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars >point.>>In a message dated 12/11/2005 6:32:11 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:>>So the North star points DOWN and looks just like the SATANIC star>What a coincidence!>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>>>Good picture of part of the recently completed Nauvoo Illinois Temple,>Kevin. But the star on the wall of the Temple represents the North Star, >which>represents Jesus Christ.>>Kevin you need to remove the beam from your eye and then the LDS eye will>appear perfectly clear.>Blainerb>>--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
RE: [TruthTalk] Cross
The COMPLETE absence of the Cross taken in consideration of the Plethora of ANTI Christian and Satanic SYMBOLS shows what this "Restoration" is really made of. Then of course there are the occult RITUALS that are performed inside. Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen [this], O son of man? turn thee yet again, [and] thou shalt see greater abominations than these. And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, [were] about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. Ezekiel 8:16-15 Most of the temples are carefully laid out & point to the east, including the "Angel Moroni" that stands at the top. Inverted Pentagram Symbolizes the morning star, a name Satan has taken. Used in witchcraft and occult rituals to conjure up evil spirits. Satanists use it 2 points up and pagans use it one point up. Any way it is used symbolizes evil. It matters not if two points are up or one. It matters not if it has a circle around it. It still is a symbol of Satan. Udjat - or all seeing eye. one of few symbols referring to Lucifer (king of hell), whom it is though will pass judgment. Below the eye is a tear because he mourns for those outside his influence. All seeing Eye - Believed to be the eye of Lucifer. Used in divination. Hexes, curses, psychic control and all corruption are worked through this emblem.The north visitors center has 18 Satanic stars 6 + 6 + 6 The Nauvoo temple has SIX columns of the star/SUN/moon so 6 stars 6 Suns 6 Moons "In symbolism, an inverted figure always signifies a perverted power. The average person does not even suspect the occult properties of emblematic pentacles A good instance of this practice is found in the pentagram, or five-pointed star, made of five connected lines. This figure is the time-honored symbol of the magical arts The pentagram is used extensively in black magicThe star may be broken at one point by not permitting the converging lines to touch; it may be inverted by having one point down and two up; or it may be distorted by having the points of varying lengths. When used in black magic, the pentagram is called the "sign of the cloven hoof," or the footprint of the Devil. The star with two points upward is also called the "Goat of Mendes*," because the inverted star is the same shape as a goats head. When the upright star turns and upper point falls to the bottom, it signifies the fall of the Morning Star." (Secret Teachings of All Ages, p. CIV. ) I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven Lk 10:18 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.Romans 1:25 Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your intrusion. I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat. Besides, Christ himself used the cross as a symbol, as did the Apostles. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me. And, it is a frequent reminder of the tremendous sacrifice Jesus paid for our sins. I just do not think of that when I see a beehive.Perry>From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>Subject: [TruthTalk] Cross>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:15:17 -0800>>*/What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/*>>DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, >Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a >few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate >places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they >are buried...>..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized >the cross to depict the death of Jesus....which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some >Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their >abodes and places of worship..As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring >not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device >that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument >was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to >punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always >amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a >devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many >who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it.>> I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I >don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion >let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife t
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
Is this the "summary of commentary" Lance? To begin with I have said over and over that I do not "interpret" God's Word; if He does not give understanding we are all flailing about in the dark. This is why there are so many theologians and theological differences. Secondly - Yes scripture has one meaning although ppl seem to get all kinds of moral teachings out of it. I wouldn't go so far as to say that DavidM or myself are in possession of ALL TRUTH but we know the one who is. On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Yes, Judy, IT IS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO THINK THEMSELVES MATURE. (think being the operative word). As I understand you both, you and David believe both your apprehension of and, your interpretation(s) of, Scripture to be 'Spirit-Inspired' (Does Scripture have ONE MEANING? Are both you and David always in possession of that ONE MEANING?) From: Judy Taylor My, my Lance, you've just run right off here into another subject entirely - Let's stick with the one at hand and see what God has to say about it ... Those prophets are messing with your head. 1 Cor 2:14 Juxtaposes the two kinds of wisdom - which are natural/worldly and spiritual or that from above. 1 Cor 1:20 "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased through the (incarnation)? ... foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe" There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44-46) There is wisdom from above and there is wisdom that is earthly, sensual and demonic (James 3:15) There are people who are spiritually minded and those who are worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit (Jude 19) Unless and until they repent the world can not receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17) God makes foolish the wisdom of the world (1 Cor 1:18-20) So lets stay on track and see what leads up to 1 Cor 2:14 .. Paul writes: 1 Cor 2:6 The wisdom we speak is not of this age nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away 1 Cor 2:7 We speak God's wisdom in a mystery . 1 Cor 2:8 The wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood ... 1 Cor 2:10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit for the Spirit searches all things even the depths of God 1 Cor 2:11 Who knows the thought of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him ... even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might know. 1 Cor 2:13 Which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom but in those taught by the Spirit combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words 1 Cor 2:14 But the natural (or worldly) man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. So how did "merely human" get into the conversation and where does the drug of sophistry come from? Paul is discussing two kinds of wisdom here - this is not about who the people think they are or mature/immature. On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:59:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: 'Someone who is merely human doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit. They are foolishness to such people, you see, and they can't understand them because they need to be discerned spiitually.' But spiritual people discern everything , while nobody else can discern the truth about them! For. 'Who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct him?' But we have the mind of the Messiah' Paul is now bringing his discussion of wisdom and folly, and spiritual maturity and immaturity, right down to where the Corinthians themselves are. They have been using the 'drug' of sophistry. supposing it makes them more 'spiritual'; and Paul declares that it has made them all the more human. The more they take the drug, the more immature they show themselves to be; and the proof of it all is -- their in-fighting about different Christian teachers! That is the main point Paul is making here, and it bears reflection in today's church as we so easily lapse from serious issues to personality clashes, and from personalities to mere gossip, while all the time pretending we are still dealing with important matters. Paul draws a distinction between 'spiritual' people (vs 13) and merely 'human people', those living on the ordin
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
I did not say that you are wrong. I said that you might be wrong. I submitted a summary of commentary on the above. Have a look. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 12, 2005 07:35 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 Can you show me by the Word how I am misusing same? What other ppl do is their business. We are responsible for what we do. Well at last - we can agree on this at least. On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: One but, not necessarily yours. No but, people will continue to do so. Yes unequivocally! From: Judy Taylor How many meanings do you think it has Lance? Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands? Or should we seek the Lord with our whole heart to actually know what HE is saying so we can be a doer of HIS WORD On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Yes, Judy, IT IS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO THINK THEMSELVES MATURE. (think being the operative word).As I understand you both, you and David believe both your apprehension of and, your interpretation(s) of, Scripture to be 'Spirit-Inspired' (Does Scripture have ONE MEANING? Are both you and David always in possession of that ONE MEANING?) From: Judy Taylor My, my Lance, you've just run right off here into another subject entirely - Let's stick with the one at hand and see what God has to say about it ... Those prophets are messing with your head. 1 Cor 2:14 Juxtaposes the two kinds of wisdom - which are natural/worldly and spiritual or that from above. 1 Cor 1:20 "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased through the (incarnation)? ... foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe" There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44-46) There is wisdom from above and there is wisdom that is earthly, sensual and demonic (James 3:15) There are people who are spiritually minded and those who are worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit (Jude 19) Unless and until they repent the world can not receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17) God makes foolish the wisdom of the world (1 Cor 1:18-20) So lets stay on track and see what leads up to 1 Cor 2:14 .. Paul writes: 1 Cor 2:6 The wisdom we speak is not of this age nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away 1 Cor 2:7 We speak God's wisdom in a mystery . 1 Cor 2:8 The wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood ... 1 Cor 2:10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit for the Spirit searches all things even the depths of God 1 Cor 2:11 Who knows the thought of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him ... even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might know. 1 Cor 2:13 Which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom but in those taught by the Spirit combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words 1 Cor 2:14 But the natural (or worldly) man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. So how did "merely human" get into the conversation and where does the drug of sophistry come from? Paul is discussing two kinds of wisdom here - this is not about who the people think they are or mature/immature. On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:59:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: 'Someone who is merely human doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit. They are foolishness to such people, you see, and they can't understand them because they need to be discerned spiitually.' But spiritual people discern everything , while n
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
Can you show me by the Word how I am misusing same? What other ppl do is their business. We are responsible for what we do. Well at last - we can agree on this at least. On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:14:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: One but, not necessarily yours. No but, people will continue to do so. Yes unequivocally! From: Judy Taylor How many meanings do you think it has Lance? Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands? Or should we seek the Lord with our whole heart to actually know what HE is saying so we can be a doer of HIS WORD On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Yes, Judy, IT IS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO THINK THEMSELVES MATURE. (think being the operative word).As I understand you both, you and David believe both your apprehension of and, your interpretation(s) of, Scripture to be 'Spirit-Inspired' (Does Scripture have ONE MEANING? Are both you and David always in possession of that ONE MEANING?) From: Judy Taylor My, my Lance, you've just run right off here into another subject entirely - Let's stick with the one at hand and see what God has to say about it ... Those prophets are messing with your head. 1 Cor 2:14 Juxtaposes the two kinds of wisdom - which are natural/worldly and spiritual or that from above. 1 Cor 1:20 "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased through the (incarnation)? ... foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe" There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44-46) There is wisdom from above and there is wisdom that is earthly, sensual and demonic (James 3:15) There are people who are spiritually minded and those who are worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit (Jude 19) Unless and until they repent the world can not receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17) God makes foolish the wisdom of the world (1 Cor 1:18-20) So lets stay on track and see what leads up to 1 Cor 2:14 .. Paul writes: 1 Cor 2:6 The wisdom we speak is not of this age nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away 1 Cor 2:7 We speak God's wisdom in a mystery . 1 Cor 2:8 The wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood ... 1 Cor 2:10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit for the Spirit searches all things even the depths of God 1 Cor 2:11 Who knows the thought of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him ... even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might know. 1 Cor 2:13 Which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom but in those taught by the Spirit combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words 1 Cor 2:14 But the natural (or worldly) man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. So how did "merely human" get into the conversation and where does the drug of sophistry come from? Paul is discussing two kinds of wisdom here - this is not about who the people think they are or mature/immature. On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:59:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: 'Someone who is merely human doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit. They are foolishness to such people, you see, and they can't understand them because they need to be discerned spiitually.' But spiritual people discern everything , while nobody else can discern the truth about them! For. 'Who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct him?' But we have the mind of the Messiah' Paul is now bringing his discussion of wisdom and folly, and spiritual maturity and immaturity, right down to where the Corinthians themselves are. They have been using the 'drug' of sophistry. supposing it makes them more 'spiritual'; and Paul declares that it has made them all the more human.
Re: [TruthTalk] LIBERAL FUNDAMENTALISTS
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/9963/106038 The Five Liberal Fundamentals 1. There are many paths to the same truth, so it does not matter what religion you are. 2. Truth is all relative. Every group sharing a culture has a socially constructed truth, which is true to members of the group. 3. There is no supernatural--only the natural that we dont know and understand yet. 4. If there is a heaven, all "good" people are going there. Nobody goes to hell (if there is a hell), unless they are just too mean to tolerate goodness. 5. Whether there is a heaven or hell doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is this life.Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:You're right, Lance, I conceed that you do have some understanding of Christianity. I don't appreciate you equivocating my father to an Islamic jihadist. I take offense because I know my father very well, and your statement is false. He doesn't threaten to kill you over his viewpoints. He doesn't even dislike you if you disagree with him. He is not xenophobic. I got angry because you spoke against my father, yes. But because my father is also one of God's annointed, you have spoken not only against my father but against God's messenger. I know you will not like that I am saying this, but I wish to be frank on this matter because it is serious to me. The "hot" Christians, the Christians who chose not to be lukewarm, have almost nothing in common with the Islamic fundementalists. Light has no fellowship with the darkness. Please do not compare them: it shows your ignorance of the Light. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Why is that, Christine? Would it be due my believing that signs, t-shirts, and a variety of antics directed AT those one wishes to 'reach' with the love of Christ is somehow contradictory? Your recently expressed sentiments vis a vis feminists left me feeling sad; for you mostly. There is a contingent on TT, including our very own moderator, who bring dialogue to a level so low that...well...it's even lower than Lance's dialogue. NOW THAT'S LOW! Please take note that you didn't suggest that my UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY was, skewed, lacking, heretical, etc. ..You said that because of my remarks that i have NO understanding of Christianity. Is this an opinion, an inspired word for me, or just a bit of anger 'cause 'Dad' was included?- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 15:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masLance wrote:their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred.Then you have no understanding of Christianity. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 'People get passionate about..traditions' Even on TT I noticed. Kevin, Dean and occasionally your Dad strike me as persons who are Christian counterparts to radicals that'd be found in Islam, Sikhism & militant Zionism where their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred. (IMO obviously).- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 14:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masNo, I have not read Bernard Lewis.Yes, my teacher calls herself a practicing Muslim, but she is a progressive Muslim, which are typically non-Arabic Muslims that don't take the Koran seriously and are vry Left in their political leanings. She is a crusading feminist. She converted to Islam from Christianity. She is African-American and born in the US. From our discussions in class, she has almost no knowledge of traditional Islam. She could answer almost no questions. Fortunately, there were several Muslims in the class that could answer any inqueries. The issue of terrorism was only addressed on the last day of class, and it was not pretty. She is racist against the Jews, believes Israel is to be blamed for our troubles, and believes we are only in Iraq for the oil. She made it very clear that the terrorists do not hate America for irrational reasons, they hate America because we are Evil. Israel is evil. Our military strength is evil. Not that any culture is any better than another culture, of course. If we changed our foreign policies terrorism threats would cease. Because the terrorists are rational. Not irrational. Lance wrote:Do you see the similarities between a 'radical/fundamentalist' Muslim and a 'radical/fundamentalist' anything else?I see a difference between lukewarm religion and radical religion, yes. I call myself a radical Christian, full of passion for Jesus Christ. I believe that there are lukewarm Muslims just like there are lukewarm Christians, who practice their religion shrugingly, not too interested in truth or righteousness.But the catch is this: darkness is darkness. If you follow Allah, you are fighting for an untruth. And passion without holiness or light is a murderous force. Any passion that is not focused on the Light of the Wo
Re: [TruthTalk] CHRISTINE CLAIMS THAT I HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY
Lance has a DEEP Seated hatred of "Fundamentalists" AND you would be surprised as to who he sees as FUNDAMENTAL Your Dad & Judy have been called such. Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:You're right, Lance, I conceed that you do have some understanding of Christianity. I don't appreciate you equivocating my father to an Islamic jihadist. I take offense because I know my father very well, and your statement is false. He doesn't threaten to kill you over his viewpoints. He doesn't even dislike you if you disagree with him. He is not xenophobic. I got angry because you spoke against my father, yes. But because my father is also one of God's annointed, you have spoken not only against my father but against God's messenger. I know you will not like that I am saying this, but I wish to be frank on this matter because it is serious to me. The "hot" Christians, the Christians who chose not to be lukewarm, have almost nothing in common with the Islamic fundementalists. Light has no fellowship with the darkness. Please do not compare them: it shows your ignorance of the Light. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Why is that, Christine? Would it be due my believing that signs, t-shirts, and a variety of antics directed AT those one wishes to 'reach' with the love of Christ is somehow contradictory? Your recently expressed sentiments vis a vis feminists left me feeling sad; for you mostly. There is a contingent on TT, including our very own moderator, who bring dialogue to a level so low that...well...it's even lower than Lance's dialogue. NOW THAT'S LOW! Please take note that you didn't suggest that my UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY was, skewed, lacking, heretical, etc. ..You said that because of my remarks that i have NO understanding of Christianity. Is this an opinion, an inspired word for me, or just a bit of anger 'cause 'Dad' was included?- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 15:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masLance wrote:their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred.Then you have no understanding of Christianity. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 'People get passionate about..traditions' Even on TT I noticed. Kevin, Dean and occasionally your Dad strike me as persons who are Christian counterparts to radicals that'd be found in Islam, Sikhism & militant Zionism where their 'faith _expression_' borders on hatred. (IMO obviously).- Original Message - From: Christine Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 11, 2005 14:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Happy holidays, seasons greetings, X-masNo, I have not read Bernard Lewis.Yes, my teacher calls herself a practicing Muslim, but she is a progressive Muslim, which are typically non-Arabic Muslims that don't take the Koran seriously and are vry Left in their political leanings. She is a crusading feminist. She converted to Islam from Christianity. She is African-American and born in the US. From our discussions in class, she has almost no knowledge of traditional Islam. She could answer almost no questions. Fortunately, there were several Muslims in the class that could answer any inqueries. The issue of terrorism was only addressed on the last day of class, and it was not pretty. She is racist against the Jews, believes Israel is to be blamed for our troubles, and believes we are only in Iraq for the oil. She made it very clear that the terrorists do not hate America for irrational reasons, they hate America because we are Evil. Israel is evil. Our military strength is evil. Not that any culture is any better than another culture, of course. If we changed our foreign policies terrorism threats would cease. Because the terrorists are rational. Not irrational. Lance wrote:Do you see the similarities between a 'radical/fundamentalist' Muslim and a 'radical/fundamentalist' anything else?I see a difference between lukewarm religion and radical religion, yes. I call myself a radical Christian, full of passion for Jesus Christ. I believe that there are lukewarm Muslims just like there are lukewarm Christians, who practice their religion shrugingly, not too interested in truth or righteousness.But the catch is this: darkness is darkness. If you follow Allah, you are fighting for an untruth. And passion without holiness or light is a murderous force. Any passion that is not focused on the Light of the World will end in murder. Man is full of evil things, and the Koran does not provide the answer to all of the evil in Man. That is the dangerousness of the Koran.People get passionate about its traditions, but their passion is channeled into hate and selfishness. That is the fruit of the Koran.Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No/yes Have you read Bernard Lewis on Islam? Was your teacher a Muslim? Was the issue of terrorism addressed? Do you see the similarities between a
Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil
What about them? The stars all over your temples are exactly like the Satanic star of the CRAFT![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about the stars on the American flag?? five points. I doubt they or the Mormon Temple builders even worry about what direction the stars point. In a message dated 12/11/2005 6:32:11 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:So the North star points DOWN and looks just like the SATANIC star What a coincidence![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Good picture of part of the recently completed Nauvoo Illinois Temple, Kevin. But the star on the wall of the Temple represents the North Star, which represents Jesus Christ. Kevin you need to remove the beam from your eye and then the LDS eye will appear perfectly clear. Blainerb Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
One but, not necessarily yours. No but, people will continue to do so. Yes unequivocally! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 12, 2005 07:02 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 How many meanings do you think it has Lance? Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands? Or should we seek the Lord with our whole heart to actually know what HE is saying so we can be a doer of HIS WORD On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Yes, Judy, IT IS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO THINK THEMSELVES MATURE. (think being the operative word).As I understand you both, you and David believe both your apprehension of and, your interpretation(s) of, Scripture to be 'Spirit-Inspired' (Does Scripture have ONE MEANING? Are both you and David always in possession of that ONE MEANING?) From: Judy Taylor My, my Lance, you've just run right off here into another subject entirely - Let's stick with the one at hand and see what God has to say about it ... Those prophets are messing with your head. 1 Cor 2:14 Juxtaposes the two kinds of wisdom - which are natural/worldly and spiritual or that from above. 1 Cor 1:20 "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased through the (incarnation)? ... foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe" There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44-46) There is wisdom from above and there is wisdom that is earthly, sensual and demonic (James 3:15) There are people who are spiritually minded and those who are worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit (Jude 19) Unless and until they repent the world can not receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17) God makes foolish the wisdom of the world (1 Cor 1:18-20) So lets stay on track and see what leads up to 1 Cor 2:14 .. Paul writes: 1 Cor 2:6 The wisdom we speak is not of this age nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away 1 Cor 2:7 We speak God's wisdom in a mystery . 1 Cor 2:8 The wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood ... 1 Cor 2:10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit for the Spirit searches all things even the depths of God 1 Cor 2:11 Who knows the thought of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him ... even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might know. 1 Cor 2:13 Which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom but in those taught by the Spirit combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words 1 Cor 2:14 But the natural (or worldly) man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. So how did "merely human" get into the conversation and where does the drug of sophistry come from? Paul is discussing two kinds of wisdom here - this is not about who the people think they are or mature/immature. On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:59:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: 'Someone who is merely human doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit. They are foolishness to such people, you see, and they can't understand them because they need to be discerned spiitually.' But spiritual people discern everything , while nobody else can discern the truth about them! For. 'Who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct him?' But we have the mind of the Messiah' Paul is now bringing his discussion of wisdom and folly, and spiritual maturity and immaturity, right down to where the Corinthians themselves are. They have been using the 'drug' of sophistry. supposing it makes them more 'spiritual'; and Paul declares that it has made them all the more human. The more they take the drug, the more immature they show themselves to be; and the proof of it all is -- their in-fighting about different Christian teachers! That is the main point Paul is making here, and it bears reflection in
truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
cd: How old was J.Smith when he did these great feats? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 10:44:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-A&E Else how could joe have moved them According to Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon was engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long and not quite so thick as common tin The volume was something near six inches in thickness(Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, v3:9, March 1, 1842, 707.) They have been figured to be around 200lbs if gold. A block of solid tin measuring 7 x 8 x 6 inches, or 288 cubic inches, would weigh 74.67 pounds. If one allows for a 30 percent reduction due to the unevenness and space between the plates, the package would then weigh 52.27 pounds. Using the same calculations, plates of gold weigh 140.50 pounds; copper, 64.71 pounds; a mixture of gold and copper, between 65 and 140 pounds. (Vogel, The Making of a Prophet, 600) The plates were secreted about three miles from home. . . Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home. After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. He was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running (Lucy's Book, pp. 385-386, Biographical Sketches, by Lucy Smith, pp. 104-105). Amazing strength Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: gold platesDAVEH: I might add that it is my understanding that they had the appearance of gold. Whether or not the content was actually 100% gold is something that is debatable.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a set of gold plates by Joseph Smith Jr. The plates were an abridgement of more extensive records by a Nephite named Mormon, and his son, Moroni. In a message dated 12/10/2005 9:19:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: who are its authors? On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: .. The Book of Mormon is the word of God -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
Re: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s)
I was neither saddened at your departure nor happy at your return. Carry on doing what you do and, PLEASE DON'T RESTRAIN YOURSELF ON MY BEHALF! Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 12, 2005 07:02 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s) - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/12/2005 6:50:40 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s) Such as these, Dean, do not determine what can/can't be said nor how it's to be said on TT! Did you not know this? Iz 'speaks' with a mature voice ('ceptin politically, of course), whereas I've never thought of you as anything other than a BABY. cd: Not sure what you as accreting Lance-If I answer without knowing you may cry to the Moderator that I am mean to you-this is after you told me to leave when I first can on this site-Satan led people are always accuses others of the very thing they are doing.. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 12, 2005 06:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 3:42:17 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox Then theres the stuff that stinks .. cd: How can searching the deeper things of God ever do such? Have the almost(s) and the anti(s) Christians on this site cryied so loudly that we now can only discuss baby food (ie milk) so as to not stir the pot? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 12:00:57 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox To let it lie there, I think. cd: But a pot of chile smells better when stirred-it releases wonder aroma into the air for all to enjoy. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:41 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 10:19:34 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox I think we got it resolvedbetter not stir the pot. iz cd: Chicken? What was the conclusion? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:07 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 8:43:36 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox Yes, welcome back Brother Dean. (Where were you when I was getting all beat up for loving the Saturday Sabbath?) iz cd: Thanks izzy. Care to send me a posting of this subject and I will
Re: [TruthTalk] 1 Corinthians 2:14-16
How many meanings do you think it has Lance? Do you think it should be chameleon like for ppl to form it into whatever shape fits their doctrinal demands? Or should we seek the Lord with our whole heart to actually know what HE is saying so we can be a doer of HIS WORD On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Yes, Judy, IT IS. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO THINK THEMSELVES MATURE. (think being the operative word).As I understand you both, you and David believe both your apprehension of and, your interpretation(s) of, Scripture to be 'Spirit-Inspired' (Does Scripture have ONE MEANING? Are both you and David always in possession of that ONE MEANING?) From: Judy Taylor My, my Lance, you've just run right off here into another subject entirely - Let's stick with the one at hand and see what God has to say about it ... Those prophets are messing with your head. 1 Cor 2:14 Juxtaposes the two kinds of wisdom - which are natural/worldly and spiritual or that from above. 1 Cor 1:20 "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased through the (incarnation)? ... foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe" There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44-46) There is wisdom from above and there is wisdom that is earthly, sensual and demonic (James 3:15) There are people who are spiritually minded and those who are worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit (Jude 19) Unless and until they repent the world can not receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17) God makes foolish the wisdom of the world (1 Cor 1:18-20) So lets stay on track and see what leads up to 1 Cor 2:14 .. Paul writes: 1 Cor 2:6 The wisdom we speak is not of this age nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away 1 Cor 2:7 We speak God's wisdom in a mystery . 1 Cor 2:8 The wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood ... 1 Cor 2:10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit for the Spirit searches all things even the depths of God 1 Cor 2:11 Who knows the thought of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him ... even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might know. 1 Cor 2:13 Which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom but in those taught by the Spirit combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words 1 Cor 2:14 But the natural (or worldly) man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. So how did "merely human" get into the conversation and where does the drug of sophistry come from? Paul is discussing two kinds of wisdom here - this is not about who the people think they are or mature/immature. On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:59:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: 'Someone who is merely human doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit. They are foolishness to such people, you see, and they can't understand them because they need to be discerned spiitually.' But spiritual people discern everything , while nobody else can discern the truth about them! For. 'Who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct him?' But we have the mind of the Messiah' Paul is now bringing his discussion of wisdom and folly, and spiritual maturity and immaturity, right down to where the Corinthians themselves are. They have been using the 'drug' of sophistry. supposing it makes them more 'spiritual'; and Paul declares that it has made them all the more human. The more they take the drug, the more immature they show themselves to be; and the proof of it all is -- their in-fighting about different Christian teachers! That is the main point Paul is making here, and it bears reflection in today's church as we so easily lapse from serious issues to personality clashes, and from personalities to mere gossip, while all the time pretending we are still dealing with important matters. Paul draws a distinction between 'spiritual' people (vs 13) and merely 'human people', those living on the ordinary level.The former are ones in whom God's Spirit has come to dwell, opening them up to new depths and dimensions of truth and experience. The latter may think themselves 'sophis
[TruthTalk] BLAINE/DAVE: PLEASE CONFIRM/DENY THIS ACCUSATION
IFF true then, will you explain the 'teaching' underlying this practice? IFF false then, tell us if this was EVER THE CASE? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 12, 2005 06:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/12/2005 12:43:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox In a message dated 12/11/2005 4:05:23 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For instance??? Blainerb cd: Such as "depending on how tight the leather is"-and other sexual references-just showing your heart that is coming out of your mouth-the same as your prophet-defiled. Tch Tch, you were the one to draw a naughty conclusion, Dean, not me. Is this an example of the eye with the beam wanting to remove the mote? Let me see, weren't you also the guy who was certain women in the Mormon temples were getting all "oiled up.?" :>) cd: Actually that was Kevin who asked a high priests if he had put oil on any new brides lately-Case in point the Mormons get to put (with their hands) oil on the entire surface of the naked bodies on all young brides who get married in the temple. We tell them this is wrong. Correct me if I am wrong Kevin. Blaine is trying to find fault in me to cover his own sin of lusting after the flesh-usually Mormon things that I hate.
RE: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s)
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/12/2005 6:50:40 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s) Such as these, Dean, do not determine what can/can't be said nor how it's to be said on TT! Did you not know this? Iz 'speaks' with a mature voice ('ceptin politically, of course), whereas I've never thought of you as anything other than a BABY. cd: Not sure what you as accreting Lance-If I answer without knowing you may cry to the Moderator that I am mean to you-this is after you told me to leave when I first can on this site-Satan led people are always accuses others of the very thing they are doing.. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 12, 2005 06:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 3:42:17 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox Then theres the stuff that stinks .. cd: How can searching the deeper things of God ever do such? Have the almost(s) and the anti(s) Christians on this site cryied so loudly that we now can only discuss baby food (ie milk) so as to not stir the pot? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 12:00:57 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox To let it lie there, I think. cd: But a pot of chile smells better when stirred-it releases wonder aroma into the air for all to enjoy. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:41 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 10:19:34 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox I think we got it resolvedbetter not stir the pot. iz cd: Chicken? What was the conclusion? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:07 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 8:43:36 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox Yes, welcome back Brother Dean. (Where were you when I was getting all beat up for loving the Saturday Sabbath?) iz cd: Thanks izzy. Care to send me a posting of this subject and I will be happy to take it up-with the rational minded. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 4:57 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/10/2005 6:32:21 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox DAVEH: Welcome back, Dean! Despite your anti-Mormon bias, I am glad you have returnedeven if only temporarily cd: Taking you your anti-Christ bias in consideration I view your welcome as a spider speaking to a fly-He says:" Welcome to my dwelling place my friend ,nice to see you, come closer and sit by me and we will speak of older times and places far away".Dean Moore wrote: \Your author is nothing more than a cheap put-down artist bent on making Joseph Smith the true prophet look bad. cd:True prophet ? What makes him true? If one speaks wrongly can that one still hold the title of true Prophet-or is he just another hell bound unrepenting Mormon lusting after other women? Your actions of late also remove you own credibility as a man of God-and show us how Mormons really are-Yes a credit to your church. -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/12/2005 12:43:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox In a message dated 12/11/2005 4:05:23 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For instance??? Blainerb cd: Such as "depending on how tight the leather is"-and other sexual references-just showing your heart that is coming out of your mouth-the same as your prophet-defiled. Tch Tch, you were the one to draw a naughty conclusion, Dean, not me. Is this an example of the eye with the beam wanting to remove the mote? Let me see, weren't you also the guy who was certain women in the Mormon temples were getting all "oiled up.?" :>) cd: Actually that was Kevin who asked a high priests if he had put oil on any new brides lately-Case in point the Mormons get to put (with their hands) oil on the entire surface of the naked bodies on all young brides who get married in the temple. We tell them this is wrong. Correct me if I am wrong Kevin. Blaine is trying to find fault in me to cover his own sin of lusting after the flesh-usually Mormon things that I hate.
Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/12/2005 12:58:18 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox In a message dated 12/11/2005 1:42:13 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then theres the stuff that stinks .. The more you stir it, the worse it stinks, too. Blainerb cd: See izzy point proven-should we be afraid to make the babys and the lost to cry out "this stinks".
[TruthTalk] Almost(s) & Anti(s)
Such as these, Dean, do not determine what can/can't be said nor how it's to be said on TT! Did you not know this? Iz 'speaks' with a mature voice ('ceptin politically, of course), whereas I've never thought of you as anything other than a BABY. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 12, 2005 06:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 3:42:17 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox Then theres the stuff that stinks .. cd: How can searching the deeper things of God ever do such? Have the almost(s) and the anti(s) Christians on this site cryied so loudly that we now can only discuss baby food (ie milk) so as to not stir the pot? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 12:00:57 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox To let it lie there, I think. cd: But a pot of chile smells better when stirred-it releases wonder aroma into the air for all to enjoy. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:41 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 10:19:34 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox I think we got it resolvedbetter not stir the pot. iz cd: Chicken? What was the conclusion? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:07 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 8:43:36 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox Yes, welcome back Brother Dean. (Where were you when I was getting all beat up for loving the Saturday Sabbath?) iz cd: Thanks izzy. Care to send me a posting of this subject and I will be happy to take it up-with the rational minded. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 4:57 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/10/2005 6:32:21 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox DAVEH: Welcome back, Dean! Despite your anti-Mormon bias, I am glad you have returnedeven if only temporarily cd: Taking you your anti-Christ bias in consideration I view your welcome as a spider speaking to a fly-He says:" Welcome to my dwelling place my friend ,nice to see you, come closer and sit by me and we will speak of older times and places far away".Dean Moore wrote: \Your author is nothing more than a
RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox
- Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 3:42:17 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox Then theres the stuff that stinks .. cd: How can searching the deeper things of God ever do such? Have the almost(s) and the anti(s) Christians on this site cryied so loudly that we now can only discuss baby food (ie milk) so as to not stir the pot? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 12:00:57 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox To let it lie there, I think. cd: But a pot of chile smells better when stirred-it releases wonder aroma into the air for all to enjoy. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:41 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 10:19:34 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox I think we got it resolvedbetter not stir the pot. iz cd: Chicken? What was the conclusion? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:07 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/11/2005 8:43:36 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox Yes, welcome back Brother Dean. (Where were you when I was getting all beat up for loving the Saturday Sabbath?) iz cd: Thanks izzy. Care to send me a posting of this subject and I will be happy to take it up-with the rational minded. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 4:57 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/10/2005 6:32:21 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blaine Autumn equinox DAVEH: Welcome back, Dean! Despite your anti-Mormon bias, I am glad you have returnedeven if only temporarily cd: Taking you your anti-Christ bias in consideration I view your welcome as a spider speaking to a fly-He says:" Welcome to my dwelling place my friend ,nice to see you, come closer and sit by me and we will speak of older times and places far away".Dean Moore wrote: \Your author is nothing more than a cheap put-down artist bent on making Joseph Smith the true prophet look bad. cd:True prophet ? What makes him true? If one speaks wrongly can that one still hold the title of true Prophet-or is he just another hell bound unrepenting Mormon lusting after other women? Your actions of late also remove you own credibility as a man of God-and show us how Mormons really are-Yes a credit to your church. -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:44:56 -0800 Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat.DAVEH: Really? As I see it, the cross was the most successful tool Satan could devise to torture and kill our beloved Lord. Everything else he tried failedbut, the cross did the job. Only because He willingly layed His life down. If He had not done that nothing could have killed Him, the Lord of Life. ad there would have been no resurrection without a death. Satan didn't know what he was doing - he acted in ignorance which must have been a blow to his pride (1 Cor 2:6-8) judyt The resurrection was the defeat of deathand Satan. Removing the guarded stone blocking the entrance, and rising from the tomb was the symbol of Satan's defeat, Perry. Perhaps you should consider hanging a millstone about your neck.. How do you see it that Jesus and the Apostles glorified the cross? Did they idolize it, and turn it into jewelery? Was it displayed on their edifices? Or are those examples simply Christian traditions that lay no claim to Biblical validity? Biblical references would be appreciated.Charles Perry Locke wrote: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your intrusion. I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat. Besides, Christ himself used the cross as a symbol, as did the Apostles. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me. And, it is a frequent reminder of the tremendous sacrifice Jesus paid for our sins. I just do not think of that when I see a beehive. Perry */What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/* DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they are buried... ..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus. ...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their abodes and places of worship. .As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it. I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun & knife store, and saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your daughter..Would it bring back fond memories? LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one who did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many others. Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son. FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years ago put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at night with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the freeway http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm .This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road, what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes his death in such a manner. I wouldn't be sur
Re: [TruthTalk] Strawmen
Dave scripture is understood in the light of other scripture and calling it the tree of death does not change anything What was the result of their partaking of it? God said "In the day you eat you shall surely die" They ate and they immediately lost fellowship with the source of life and light. That day they died spiritually and became mortal, that is, they began to die physically as well. So how is calling this tree a tree of death spinning anything? You think death and dying are a good thing - rather than an enemy that has caused mankind to live in fear from that time on? On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:27:30 -0800 Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: A&E rejected it in favor of the tree of deathDAVEH: I find it interesting that you changed the terminology of the Bible regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Judy. It seems like you are purposely spinning what the Bible said to promote your own bias by referring to it as a tree of death. Why would you call it a tree of death when the Lord called it a tree of knowledge? Do you have a particular reason for your aversion to the Lord's nomenclature regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil?Judy Taylor wrote: God's wisdom is a tree of life JD A&E rejected it in favor of the tree of death On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 09:38:42 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So, you decided to ignore my comment about the Tree of Life? Adam and Eve were not given any restrictions concerning eating from this tree. What do you suppose would be the result of eating from such fruit? I say "continued life." jd -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat. DAVEH: Really? As I see it, the cross was the most successful tool Satan could devise to torture and kill our beloved Lord. Everything else he tried failedbut, the cross did the job. The resurrection was the defeat of deathand Satan. Removing the guarded stone blocking the entrance, and rising from the tomb was the symbol of Satan's defeat, Perry. Perhaps you should consider hanging a millstone about your neck.. How do you see it that Jesus and the Apostles glorified the cross? Did they idolize it, and turn it into jewelery? Was it displayed on their edifices? Or are those examples simply Christian traditions that lay no claim to Biblical validity? Biblical references would be appreciated. Charles Perry Locke wrote: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your intrusion. I would expect Satan to teach his people to shun the cross...it is the very instrument of his defeat. Besides, Christ himself used the cross as a symbol, as did the Apostles. If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me. And, it is a frequent reminder of the tremendous sacrifice Jesus paid for our sins. I just do not think of that when I see a beehive. Perry */What does the CROSS "REPRESENT"/* DAVEH: I hope you don't mind me intruding on your discussion with Blaine, Kevin. This topic is of particular interest to me, as I've seen quite a few crosses at the sides of highways I travel. Quite often, they indicate places where people have died, or in the case of cemeteries.where they are buried... ..In the past couple thousand years, many Christians have idolized the cross to depict the death of Jesus. ...which to me seems rather bizarre to meif not macabre. Some Christians have taken to wearing jewelery, and displaying crosses in their abodes and places of worship. .As I see it, those crosses depict the *cruel tool* used to bring not only much pain and suffering to our beloved Savior, but also the device that was used by God's enemies to kill our Lord. This inhumane instrument was designed not only to kill God's children, but at the same time to punitively torture them in a humiliating and degrading way. It always amazes me that some Christians would have such an affinity to such a devilish device that brings pain, suffering and death to the minds of many who see it, and especially to those who were victims of it. I'm curious as to how you would feel about something similar, Kevin. I don't know if you have any children, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume you do. If your enemy were to maliciously use a knife to torture your daughter for a couple days to the point that the wounds killed her, would you be predisposed to wear a piece of jewelry on a chain around your neck in the form of a knife to remind you of what the guy did to your daughter? And, how would you feel if you drove by a gun & knife store, and saw a sign depicting knives that looked similar to the one that killed your daughter..Would it bring back fond memories? LDS folks appreciate the dying sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. But we don't glorify the tool that killed him. It sickens me to think of man's inhumanity that would bring such pain, suffering and death to one who did not deserve it. Nor do we idolize the cross as do so many others. Rather, we prefer to remember his sacrifice and glorify his Father---not the cross--- for the resurrection of his Son. FWIW.We have a large Christian church near us that a few years ago put 3 large prominent crosses on their building that are lit up at night with blue lights that are very noticeable to the cars passing by on the freeway http://www.rollinghills.org/about_us/campus/index.cfm .This picture really doesn't show them very well compared to the cars on the freeway, as it is taken from the wrong angle and at quite a distance. I have sometimes wondered if Jesus were to travel that road, what would he think if he were to pass such an edifice that memorializes his death in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if he would wince at such a sight. And..It bothers me to think that some would pain him in such a callous way. Kevin Deegan wrote: Exactly they bought into the counterfeit. *How art thou _fallen from heaven_, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will _exalt my throne above the stars_ of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:...* *Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.* *North Star*,
Re: [TruthTalk] PERRY DIRECTLY ACKNOWLEDGES ATTACKING ON THE FORUM HE MODERATES
DAVEH: Does that mean I should reconsider thinking of you as a hypocritical Christian? :-) Charles Perry Locke wrote: I did and I do. But, with your aging selective memory, you probably would not recall that :-) Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] PERRY DIRECTLY ACKNOWLEDGES ATTACKING ON THE FORUM HE MODERATES Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:12:56 -0800 *There have been times when I have failed to make the distinction and used ad-hominem references* DAVEH:If you knew you did such Perry, then did you consider reprimanding yourself as you might reprimand another TTer for a similar transgression?IOWDo you hold yourself to the same standards as you would hold others? Charles Perry Locke wrote: As for my attacks on promoters of mormonism, I have explained that is is not the MESSENGER that I am attacking, but the ORIGINATOR of the messages. *There have been times when I have failed to make the distinction and used ad-hominem references*, but that certainly is not the rule with my anti-mormonism posts. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Signing off...
I have gotten sucked into the world of TT DAVEH: Like Dean, you'll be back! ;-) It would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe not all in the same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-) DAVEH: As long as we don't invite Dean, it should turn out all right. :-D Christine Miller wrote: I am signing off. I have gotten sucked into the world of TT, and I think it would be beneficial to my GPA to bid adeiu. Thanks for all the discussions. I have learned a great deal. May the Lord bless you and keep you all. It would be cool to meet you all in real life some day. But maybe not all in the same room. I wonder how that would turn out... :-) -Christine Miller -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.