AW: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling?
Thanks for the detailed explanations! Tiemo -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Waddingham Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Oktober 2015 20:23 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? On 2015-10-27 14:56, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Thanks Mark for jumping in! > If I understood you correct, things even get crisper and not blurred > with Hi-DPI enabled on a Hi-DPI monitor and keep as they are on a > standard monitor. So my conclusion would be to enable it always by > standard (since it is anyway standard on OS X) Yes - this is the ideal situation :) > What could be a reason not to enable Hi-DPI scaling on Windows or with > other words, why is it an option? Ah - well - the APIs we currently use on Windows are a bit of a dinosaur in terms text rendering. We still use 'GDI' which has the unfortunate problem that text does not linearly scale. What this means is that the size of a piece of text rendered with GDI at scale factor 1.0 is not necessarily the same as the same text rendered at scale factor 2.0. This is down to the TrueType hinting and other methods it employs which you cannot actually turn off (this hinting can be quite aggressive - its goal was to ensure text rendered at low screen resolutions was still highly readable without anti-aliasing - and tends to alter the horizontal width to varying degrees for different fonts). We've not actually managed to find a way to solve this problem 'well' yet - particularly as we still have to support XP (given its market share is still quite considerable!). So, you do need to check your app in Hi-DPI mode on windows (by adjusting the text scale factor in settings, as previously mentioned) and make sure it still looks the way you need it to. You *can* try and set the 'useIdealLayout' property of the stack if there are visual problems - this will make the text render in the appropriately 'linearly scalable' way. However, it does have a performance and visual difference impact - the text will be slightly fuzzier, and will take a little longer to render. Hope this helps! Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling?
On 10/27/2015 2:58 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: It causes text (on Windows) to be rendered as a path internally, and then painted to the target - this means that it doesn't suffer the 'changing metrics' problem. It is actually what 'formatForPrinting' now sits on (on Windows) - meaning you can actually show a nice accurate print preview of layout of a stack without the drawbacks of that mode which used to exist (many versions ago). Of course, I think I just noticed it never made it into the dictionary... I didn't even have to think, I looked it up and it wasn't there. :) But since you're (presumably) about to add the term, is there a better word for it? Something indicating "text" somehow? Anyone looking for a property like that would probably do a search for "text". -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling?
On 2015-10-27 20:50, Scott Rossi wrote: Hold on -- "useIdealLayout" is a real property? When l think of all the years I wasted fiddling with the design of projects... on clientRequest create stack put it into theStack set the useIdealLayout of theStack to true save theStack deliver theStack send "vacation" to me in 5 seconds end clientRequest Haha - unfortunately it is nowhere near as impressive as that! It causes text (on Windows) to be rendered as a path internally, and then painted to the target - this means that it doesn't suffer the 'changing metrics' problem. It is actually what 'formatForPrinting' now sits on (on Windows) - meaning you can actually show a nice accurate print preview of layout of a stack without the drawbacks of that mode which used to exist (many versions ago). Of course, I think I just noticed it never made it into the dictionary... Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling?
Hold on -- "useIdealLayout" is a real property? When l think of all the years I wasted fiddling with the design of projects... on clientRequest create stack put it into theStack set the useIdealLayout of theStack to true save theStack deliver theStack send "vacation" to me in 5 seconds end clientRequest Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 10/27/15, 12:22 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham" wrote: >You *can* try and set the 'useIdealLayout' property of the stack if >there are visual problems ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling?
On 2015-10-27 14:56, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: Thanks Mark for jumping in! If I understood you correct, things even get crisper and not blurred with Hi-DPI enabled on a Hi-DPI monitor and keep as they are on a standard monitor. So my conclusion would be to enable it always by standard (since it is anyway standard on OS X) Yes - this is the ideal situation :) What could be a reason not to enable Hi-DPI scaling on Windows or with other words, why is it an option? Ah - well - the APIs we currently use on Windows are a bit of a dinosaur in terms text rendering. We still use 'GDI' which has the unfortunate problem that text does not linearly scale. What this means is that the size of a piece of text rendered with GDI at scale factor 1.0 is not necessarily the same as the same text rendered at scale factor 2.0. This is down to the TrueType hinting and other methods it employs which you cannot actually turn off (this hinting can be quite aggressive - its goal was to ensure text rendered at low screen resolutions was still highly readable without anti-aliasing - and tends to alter the horizontal width to varying degrees for different fonts). We've not actually managed to find a way to solve this problem 'well' yet - particularly as we still have to support XP (given its market share is still quite considerable!). So, you do need to check your app in Hi-DPI mode on windows (by adjusting the text scale factor in settings, as previously mentioned) and make sure it still looks the way you need it to. You *can* try and set the 'useIdealLayout' property of the stack if there are visual problems - this will make the text render in the appropriately 'linearly scalable' way. However, it does have a performance and visual difference impact - the text will be slightly fuzzier, and will take a little longer to render. Hope this helps! Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling?
Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > Do you enable "Hi-DPI scaling" in the standalone settings for windows since > 6.7.7 by standard or never? (I can't test the difference myself, not having > a Hi-DPI monitor) There's currently a bug relating to the Windows Hi-DPI status in the standalone settings window. It *is* enabled by default, but often incorrectly shows up as being disabled in the settings window. A temporary fix was provided by Panos at: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15694 Lyn ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling?
Thanks Mark for jumping in! If I understood you correct, things even get crisper and not blurred with Hi-DPI enabled on a Hi-DPI monitor and keep as they are on a standard monitor. So my conclusion would be to enable it always by standard (since it is anyway standard on OS X) What could be a reason not to enable Hi-DPI scaling on Windows or with other words, why is it an option? Thanks Tiemo -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Waddingham Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Oktober 2015 14:10 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: Re: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? On 2015-10-26 10:52, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > I don't have a Hi-DPI monitor and didn't found anything in the forum > about it, so I am unsure what happens with my stack if I would enable > this setting? What exactly happens when it says "if enabled, the stack > will be scaled to fit"? A Hi-Res monitor has a higher pixel density, > but my program windows and objects have fixed sizes in pixel. My > understanding is, if I don't enable this setting, my stacks will be > displayed smaller on a Hi-DPI monitor? Correct? And enabling this > setting, are they scaled to the "same appearance", as on a standard > monitor? Or what happens? If yes, probably images get blurred, when > being scaled, so you shouldn't enable this option when you use images, > correct? Hi-DPI scaling makes it so that if the systems 'pixel scale' (the mapping from virtual pixels to physical pixels) is not 1-1, the engine will appropriately render things to use the 'extra fidelity'. A stack which is 400x400 in LiveCode, will still appear to be 400x400 on a Retina display, say, except that it will actually be rendering at 800x800 - making things crisper. Depending on the version of Windows you are targetting, you can experiment with HiDPI by adjusting the 'text scaling' option in the system preferences. > Why is the Hi-DPI support for Windows a chooseable option and for OS X > it is standard since 6.7.6 (6.7.7)? Do images don't get blurred, when > the stack is resized on OS X? Why can't I disable this option on OS X? Windows does not allow the runtime configuration of Hi-DPI 'pixel scaling' - it has to be specified as part of the Applications 'manifest' which is integrated at standalone build time. Mac, however, does allow toggleing configuration of Hi-DPI 'pixel scaling' at runtime - see the 'usePixelScaling' option. By default, the Mac engine will use as many pixels as it can - so if you have a retina display, you will get pixel scaling (but you can turn it off - set the usePixelScaling to false). On Windows, by default pixel scaling is turned off, but you can choose to use it for your app by turning it on in the standalone builder. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling?
On 2015-10-26 10:52, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: I don't have a Hi-DPI monitor and didn't found anything in the forum about it, so I am unsure what happens with my stack if I would enable this setting? What exactly happens when it says "if enabled, the stack will be scaled to fit"? A Hi-Res monitor has a higher pixel density, but my program windows and objects have fixed sizes in pixel. My understanding is, if I don't enable this setting, my stacks will be displayed smaller on a Hi-DPI monitor? Correct? And enabling this setting, are they scaled to the "same appearance", as on a standard monitor? Or what happens? If yes, probably images get blurred, when being scaled, so you shouldn't enable this option when you use images, correct? Hi-DPI scaling makes it so that if the systems 'pixel scale' (the mapping from virtual pixels to physical pixels) is not 1-1, the engine will appropriately render things to use the 'extra fidelity'. A stack which is 400x400 in LiveCode, will still appear to be 400x400 on a Retina display, say, except that it will actually be rendering at 800x800 - making things crisper. Depending on the version of Windows you are targetting, you can experiment with HiDPI by adjusting the 'text scaling' option in the system preferences. Why is the Hi-DPI support for Windows a chooseable option and for OS X it is standard since 6.7.6 (6.7.7)? Do images don't get blurred, when the stack is resized on OS X? Why can't I disable this option on OS X? Windows does not allow the runtime configuration of Hi-DPI 'pixel scaling' - it has to be specified as part of the Applications 'manifest' which is integrated at standalone build time. Mac, however, does allow toggleing configuration of Hi-DPI 'pixel scaling' at runtime - see the 'usePixelScaling' option. By default, the Mac engine will use as many pixels as it can - so if you have a retina display, you will get pixel scaling (but you can turn it off - set the usePixelScaling to false). On Windows, by default pixel scaling is turned off, but you can choose to use it for your app by turning it on in the standalone builder. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
AW: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling?
Sometimes when I don't get any answers on a post, I wonder if the reason was, that the issue is so exotic, that nobody else has experienced it and can't help, or that the issue is just so basic, that it is too self-evident to answer. I try to ask a more simple question Do you enable "Hi-DPI scaling" in the standalone settings for windows since 6.7.7 by standard or never? (I can't test the difference myself, not having a Hi-DPI monitor) Thanks Tiemo -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB Gesendet: Montag, 26. Oktober 2015 10:52 An: LiveCode User Liste senden Betreff: What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling? Hello, since LC 6.7.6 or 6.7.7 you can enable Hi-DPI scaling in the standalone builder settings for windows. I don't have a Hi-DPI monitor and didn't found anything in the forum about it, so I am unsure what happens with my stack if I would enable this setting? What exactly happens when it says "if enabled, the stack will be scaled to fit"? A Hi-Res monitor has a higher pixel density, but my program windows and objects have fixed sizes in pixel. My understanding is, if I don't enable this setting, my stacks will be displayed smaller on a Hi-DPI monitor? Correct? And enabling this setting, are they scaled to the "same appearance", as on a standard monitor? Or what happens? If yes, probably images get blurred, when being scaled, so you shouldn't enable this option when you use images, correct? Why is the Hi-DPI support for Windows a chooseable option and for OS X it is standard since 6.7.6 (6.7.7)? Do images don't get blurred, when the stack is resized on OS X? Why can't I disable this option on OS X? How do you handle this option? Do you always enable it? Thanks for your experiences Tiemo ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
What happens when enabling Hi-DPI scaling?
Hello, since LC 6.7.6 or 6.7.7 you can enable Hi-DPI scaling in the standalone builder settings for windows. I don't have a Hi-DPI monitor and didn't found anything in the forum about it, so I am unsure what happens with my stack if I would enable this setting? What exactly happens when it says "if enabled, the stack will be scaled to fit"? A Hi-Res monitor has a higher pixel density, but my program windows and objects have fixed sizes in pixel. My understanding is, if I don't enable this setting, my stacks will be displayed smaller on a Hi-DPI monitor? Correct? And enabling this setting, are they scaled to the "same appearance", as on a standard monitor? Or what happens? If yes, probably images get blurred, when being scaled, so you shouldn't enable this option when you use images, correct? Why is the Hi-DPI support for Windows a chooseable option and for OS X it is standard since 6.7.6 (6.7.7)? Do images don't get blurred, when the stack is resized on OS X? Why can't I disable this option on OS X? How do you handle this option? Do you always enable it? Thanks for your experiences Tiemo ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode