Re: Rant (very long)
Thanks, i stumbled over this page before, but unfortunately it does not solve my problem. With settings.xml as follows //winpc229/supply/Maven2/Repository true http proxy 81 true https proxy 81 i cannot access the https repository https://maven-repository.dev.java.net/repository If i reverse the order of the proxies (https first http second) i cannot access the central repository any more (this time http protocol). I opened MNG-2305 about this. Greetings Franz Trygve Laugstøl schrieb: Franz Fehringer wrote: I asked this before and now try again. Can Maven2 access https repositories from behind a proxy/firewall? 1) Browse to http://maven.apache.org 2) Press "documentation" 3) Seach for "prox" and click on: http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-proxies.html -- Trygve - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Rant (very long)
Franz Fehringer wrote: I asked this before and now try again. Can Maven2 access https repositories from behind a proxy/firewall? 1) Browse to http://maven.apache.org 2) Press "documentation" 3) Seach for "prox" and click on: http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-proxies.html -- Trygve - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Rant (very long)
Hello,
Your first two points proves that Chas is right. Maven 2 is not stable
(and lacks documentation), I agree with this. But it is still a great
tool and I hope it will be improved in the near future.
> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>
> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
> switch to
> a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not that
> hard ;-)
> check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free to
> ping us for help
>
> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
> post fix the version
> with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug fix
> in maven-assembly-plugin
> version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy to
> your
> internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>
> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
> project'poms.
> This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to go
> to maven-proxy to look
> for daily update.
>
> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
> have gone thru
--
Best regards,
Wojciech Gdela.
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Rant (very long)
On 2006-05-25 12:23:02 -0400, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I thought it was time to jump in. Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work. THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind description. After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret, but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out there is more documentation?). Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret. Yeah, that PDF book "Better Builds with Maven" is a must. The maven.org website does have information, a fair amount actually, but seems so disorganized. So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build applications. It would be neat if you could execute some maven command and it would "freeze" the plugins that you are using to the current versions when you run the command. So in other words, it would modify a pom to specify versions for plugins. Another idea would be for each maven release to specify the plugin versions used that are involved in the build lifecycle. (and that version must be fixed, not a range and not a snapshot). THE DESIGN PROBLEMS But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some serious consideration. MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH. Respectfully... I disagree with you Chas. I like that Maven hides stuff. It hides stuff that is boilerplate and is the same or at least *should* be the same across projects if you want a consistent build environment -- which I appreciate. It's annoying to go to an ant based project and then have to read the build script to know how it is built. With maven, it's uniform. If you want an ant based build to do something you didn't write in the build.xml... you have to write it. With maven, you get it for free (assuming defaults and an existing plugin that does what you want -- likely). Of course... I think that if a system like maven is going to hide boilerplate stuff from us developers and operate on defaults, then, it is very important that there is clear documentation on what is hidden. The documentation for maven isn't so hot, unfortunately. It would also be useful if the output of maven (perhaps with a command line flag) could more clearly indicate what it is doing and why. It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most of this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me. Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download and compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp plugin), but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file? You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target audience developers? I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is a bad thing. I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening to see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing. An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I simply search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5". No. I have to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets this value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet have any plugins configuration). THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM I think the second major design problem is the central repository. As evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a sing
Re: Rant (very long)
Hello Ben,
I can access https://jaxb.dev.java.net/jaxb-maven2-plugin with my
browsers (IE6 and Firefox 1.5) but not with Maven2.
My problem is described in detail in the mail below.
I also opened MNG-2305 for it.
Best regards
Franz
Only the first proxy is considered it seems.
If i exchange the two proxies (https first http second) the http
connects start to fail.
How do i configure i proxy for both http amd https?
Greetings
Franz
Franz Fehringer schrieb: Hello,
We use the same proxy host and port both for http and https.
With Maven 2.0.4 i am able to dynamically download plugins over http
but not over https.
In the latter case i get
Caused by: java.net.ConnectException: Connection timed out: connect
at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.socketConnect(Native Method)
at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.doConnect(PlainSocketImpl.java:333)
at
java.net.PlainSocketImpl.connectToAddress(PlainSocketImpl.java:195)
at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.connect(PlainSocketImpl.java:182)
at java.net.Socket.connect(Socket.java:507)
at java.net.Socket.connect(Socket.java:457)
at sun.net.NetworkClient.doConnect(NetworkClient.java:157)
at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.openServer(HttpClient.java:365)
at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.openServer(HttpClient.java:477)
at
sun.net.www.protocol.https.HttpsClient.(HttpsClient.java:278)
at
sun.net.www.protocol.https.HttpsClient.New(HttpsClient.java:335)
The file to be downloaded is
Downloading: https://maven-repository.dev.java.net/repository/com.sun.xml.bind/poms/jaxb-impl-2.0.pom
and my .m2/settings reads
//winpc229/supply/Maven2/Repository
true
http
proxy
81
true
https
proxy
81
What is the problem and how can it be resolved?
ben short schrieb:
Franz,
So you have a firewall between you and the internet. Assuming that you
can access the https repo's from your browser i see no reason why
Maven wont be able to.
Ben
On 5/26/06, Franz Fehringer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I asked this before and now try again.
Can Maven2 access https repositories from behind a proxy/firewall?
Greetings
Franz
Kathryn Huxtable schrieb:
Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't
have
control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to
have
this on 80/443).
I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited
the
WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
What now?
What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time
codehaus or
ibiblio is down I can get work done?
-K
On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
switch to
a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not that
hard ;-)
check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free to
ping us for help
2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
post fix the version
with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug fix
in maven-assembly-plugin
version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy to
your
internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
project'poms.
This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to go
to maven-proxy to look
for daily update.
This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and
I
have gone thru
Hope it helps
-D
On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me,
I
thought it was time to jump in.
Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
description.
After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
"secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
there is more documen
Re: Rant (very long)
Franz,
So you have a firewall between you and the internet. Assuming that you
can access the https repo's from your browser i see no reason why
Maven wont be able to.
Ben
On 5/26/06, Franz Fehringer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I asked this before and now try again.
Can Maven2 access https repositories from behind a proxy/firewall?
Greetings
Franz
Kathryn Huxtable schrieb:
Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to have
this on 80/443).
I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited the
WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
What now?
What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus or
ibiblio is down I can get work done?
-K
On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
switch to
a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not that
hard ;-)
check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free to
ping us for help
2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
post fix the version
with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug fix
in maven-assembly-plugin
version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy to
your
internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
project'poms.
This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to go
to maven-proxy to look
for daily update.
This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
have gone thru
Hope it helps
-D
On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I
thought it was time to jump in.
Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
description.
After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
"secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
there is more documentation?).
Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released
yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I
SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's
list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building
the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
applications.
THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
serious consideration.
MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds
this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY
that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most of
this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download and
compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp plugin),
but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to
make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it
does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target
audience developers?
I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is a
bad thing.
I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration
file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening to
see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing.
An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I simply
search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5". No. I have
to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets this
value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet have any
plugins configuration).
THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
I think
Re: Rant (very long)
On 5/26/06, Jorg Heymans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on > the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a > "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret, > but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out > there is more documentation?). +1, the book should be mentioned somewhere prominently on the maven website. +1 -- Jeff Mutonho GoogleTalk : ejbengine Skype: ejbengine Registered Linux user number 366042 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Rant (very long)
I asked this before and now try again.
Can Maven2 access https repositories from behind a proxy/firewall?
Greetings
Franz
Kathryn Huxtable schrieb:
Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to have
this on 80/443).
I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited the
WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
What now?
What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus or
ibiblio is down I can get work done?
-K
On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
switch to
a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not that
hard ;-)
check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free to
ping us for help
2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
post fix the version
with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug fix
in maven-assembly-plugin
version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy to
your
internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
project'poms.
This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to go
to maven-proxy to look
for daily update.
This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
have gone thru
Hope it helps
-D
On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I
thought it was time to jump in.
Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
description.
After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
"secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
there is more documentation?).
Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released
yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I
SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's
list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building
the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
applications.
THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
serious consideration.
MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds
this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY
that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most of
this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download and
compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp plugin),
but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to
make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it
does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target
audience developers?
I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is a
bad thing.
I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration
file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening to
see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing.
An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I simply
search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5". No. I have
to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets this
value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet have any
plugins configuration).
THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
I think the second major design problem is the central repository. As
evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, th
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Kevin Galligan wrote: Just had a crazy thought about the "external organization making secret changes" issue. If the issue is with snapshot builds I guess I don't have much for you there (other than the above, of course). However if the concern is simply that you don't know that what's in the repository hasn't changed, I had a wacky idea. Maybe we write a plugin that does the following. When you set up a new project or change an existing project's dependencies, you need to run that plugin. Something like: mvn depend-check:build It'll go through non-snapshot dependencies and build a datafile that keeps a hash of each of the artifacts. Keep that in the root directory next to the 'pom.xml' file, and more importantly, keep it in source control. Attach the plugin to the build, although the goal would be like 'depend-check:check'. This plugin would consult with the datafile built earlier and check that each local artifact matched what was used originally for the build. If something doesn't match, you'll get an error and an aborted build. This has been asked before and would be a very useful plugin for some. It should also be fairly easy to implement and I'm sure it would be accepted into the Mojo sandbox. -- Trygve - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Rant (very long)
Hi to all, I feel compelled to add my 50 cents advice to this thread :-) I could have written chas's mail some months ago, when I began switching my projects from maven1 to maven2 (2.0.1 at that time), feeling overwhelmed by the complexity of taming the beast and frustrated by the fragmentation and the scarcity of the documentation. The arrival of mergere's book is definitely a great move towards widespread adoption and clear understanding of maven2's features and I too am a bit surprised that advertisement about it should be quite "secretive". There may be unknown constraints but it would be really useful to include a link on maven's site first page. So the lack of documentation is becoming less of a problem than before. I now use maven for all my projects, whether small or big. I have setup an internal repository for my former employer, together with https access and private certificates, projects/customer specific repositories, a maven proxy and a continuum driven integrated build process. We used it to work on a large project (and with off-shore devlopment) and were very happy with some features of maven2 that would have been difficult to implement with m1 or ant: - the multi projects features are very easy to setup, - settings.xml and profiles are really great for cleanly customizing partr of a build acording to the environment, - creation of (simple) archetypes is easy, and this helps when you need to break a project into many similar small projects (features or screens), - the repository mechanism and the version mangement is tricky to understand (and I think there are things I do not yet fully master) but works fine and you have complete control over what is downloaded and how, - and most importantly, creating custom plugins is childplay when compared with maven1 and those stupid jelly scripts (forgive me if you happen to be a jelly contributor but I think the mere idea of creating a script language in XML is silly ;-) ). As for the problems, here is what I still find annoying: - the cobertura plugin, only alternative to clover plugin is still a bit difficult to use. And unit testing without code coverage is like shooting in the dark. This is the plugin I missed more, - central repository is an important issue, at least when new features are added to your build. May be a distributed scheme, something along the lines of ptp systems would be nice, - I did not use the releas plugin yet but it seems a bit "touchy". All in all, I find maven2 is a great project and an improvement over other build systems I am aware of (make, ant and maven1). I would find difficult now to undertake java projects without it (I would rather give up eclipse if given the choice !) although I miss good documentation. regards, -- OQube < software engineering \ génie logiciel > Arnaud Bailly, Dr. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Just had a crazy thought about the "external organization making secret changes" issue. If the issue is with snapshot builds I guess I don't have much for you there (other than the above, of course). However if the concern is simply that you don't know that what's in the repository hasn't changed, I had a wacky idea. Maybe we write a plugin that does the following. When you set up a new project or change an existing project's dependencies, you need to run that plugin. Something like: mvn depend-check:build It'll go through non-snapshot dependencies and build a datafile that keeps a hash of each of the artifacts. Keep that in the root directory next to the 'pom.xml' file, and more importantly, keep it in source control. Attach the plugin to the build, although the goal would be like 'depend-check:check'. This plugin would consult with the datafile built earlier and check that each local artifact matched what was used originally for the build. If something doesn't match, you'll get an error and an aborted build. I mean, personally, I'm not awake at night worried that struts 1.2.9 is different than it was 3 months ago, but I understand from where your concern comes. Of course, I'm exhausted, so maybe my idea is impratical or whatever, but I think it would serve as a decent sanity check. if just knowing that something is not right isn't enough, maybe as part of the release or deploy plugins you can optionally stuff a copy of all artifacts somewhere. As to maven being bleeding edge and being quirky, I'd agree. However, at this point I wouldn't start a new project without it. And, believe me, I'm the first guy to scream "Emporer's New Clothes" when people get overly excited about some hyped new thing. I'm sure I've convinced you ;) On 5/26/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Uh, I guess so. ;-) I did mean "he". Sorry, I was up late last night playing Civilization IV. (I really need to lock my Dell up in a drawer.) I shouldn't touch a keyboard lest I break something. -K, off to bed On 5/25/06 6:40 PM, "Lee Meador" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Uh .. when HE made an error. Is that another test? > > On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> I actually meant scpexe. "I was just testing you," as my ex-father in law >> would say when I made an error. >> >> -K >> >> >> On 5/25/06 5:45 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> Yes you use the maven-proxy to serve the internal repository. >>> >>> What do you mean my sshext? >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes, it helps, as does Daniel Kulp's message. You don't need to proxy >> your inhouse repo, but you can just to simplify things. My issue is that I'm at a university, where I don't have a developer intranet for my team, so my inhouse repo is accessed via sshext for >> access control reasons. If my VPN were smarter I could use Apache's access control mechanisms >> to restrict access to the team, but it's pretty limited. If access control were easier to delegate I maybe could use Shibboleth >> or something. (I manage Shibboleth for our campus.) -K On 5/25/06 5:11 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well you wouldnt. > > The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are > hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means > that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed, > after they have been downloaded by the proxy. > > Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store > all the jar that you produce and want to share between your > development team. > > Does that help? > > Ben > > On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-) >> >> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic >> there. >> >> -K >> >> >> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K >>> >>> >>> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Kathryn The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads >> it once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the >> next programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much >> faster. Ben On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks, that worked. > > Is the general opinion that each developer should set up >> maven-proxy on > their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If >> it's > on > my >>
Re: Rant (very long)
On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret, but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out there is more documentation?). +1, the book should be mentioned somewhere prominently on the maven website. So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build applications. As others mentioned you can specify the exact versions of plugins to be used, and if you are using snapshots you can configure the pluginRepository where it's retrieved from to __never__ search for updates. You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target audience developers? http://maven.apache.org/ref/current/maven-model/maven.html I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is a bad thing. I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening to see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing. This is called "configuration by exception". Some developers actually enjoy sifting through hundreds of properties to tweak, others don't. It's a matter of preference really. I for one expect things to initially work out of the box, and after things get more complicated i'll start looking where and how to tweak, not the other way around. THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM I think the second major design problem is the central repository. As evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a single-point-of-failure that is simply unacceptable in real world build situations. +1, many ppl got hosed during last week's outage of codehaus. CONCLUSION: I think Maven is just "not ready for prime time". I really want to like it. I think there are some great ideas, and clearly some really smart people working on it. -1. maven is ready, but it depends just how you define 'prime time'. You clearly have a very good understanding of how build tools should work in a project. I suggest you try to stick around a bit longer and learn how to bend maven2 to your advantage. HTH Jorg
Re: Rant (very long)
I'll add this one wrinkle -- I happen to use maven (and maven-proxy) at
two (soon to be three) different organizations, and as such, I configure
no mirrors in my settings.xml, but instead define my proxies in the
pom.xml files with the specific projects, as each project hits a proxy
at a completely different organization.
Brad
ben short wrote:
Kathryn.
You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
central
Internal Mirror
http://url.to.your.proxy
local-proxy
When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
other remote repositries.
Ben
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to
have
this on 80/443).
I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and
edited the
WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
What now?
What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time
codehaus or
ibiblio is down I can get work done?
-K
On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>
> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down,
you can
> switch to
>a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is
not that
> hard ;-)
>check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel
free to
> ping us for help
>
> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the
source and
> post fix the version
>with svn revision number. For example, if I need a
feature/bug fix
> in maven-assembly-plugin
>version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and
deploy to
> your
>internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>
> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
> project'poms.
>This get your team's build much faster since it does not
have to go
> to maven-proxy to look
>for daily update.
>
> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others
and I
> have gone thru
>
> Hope it helps
>
> -D
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for
me, I
>> thought it was time to jump in.
>>
>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
>>
>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
>> description.
>>
>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and
dead-ends on
>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there
is a
>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really
secret,
>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
>> there is more documentation?).
>>
>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't
released
>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
>>
>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release
where I
>> SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the
user's
>> list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are
building
>> the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
>> applications.
>>
>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
>> serious consideration.
>>
>>MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
>>
>> It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml
builds
>> this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do
EXACTLY
>> that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
>> world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
>> complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated.
Most of
>> this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
>>
>> Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to
download and
>> compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp
plugin),
>> but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
>>
>> You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to
>> make a pom.xml that a
Re: Rant (very long)
Chas, For what its worth, a couple of months ago I posted similar sentiments, and so I second your thoughts here. I didn't really go through a list of the issues I faced -- I focussed primarily on the documentation. The Megere documentation is a significant improvement, though I also recognize the curiousity of it seemingly existing separate from the project documentation. I am using Maven 2 successfully, with maven-proxy in place, and it works fairly well, but I do dread issues that come up in our work that require variations to pom.xml configuration, as there's never any telling how long it will take to resolve an issue. I appreciate you being brave enough to post your thoughts. I welcome them, and share your sentiments. But I've kind of backed off on any real discussion of this, as I realize that not everyone grasps or agrees with the irony of the requirement to dig into source code to merely use an OSS library. Once you cross that threshold and get involved directly with source code, it turns a major advantage of OSS (time/licensing cost) into merely a shell-game, where the development cost is shifted from coding and having complete architectural control to reading someone else's code and having no architectural control. I just think its a pity, because Maven is obviously the product of a lot of hard work, and such work shouldn't be marginalized. Without going into a diatribe here, it seems that everyone would tend to agree with the notion of "interface-based programming", the general tenant being that integration points in applications be defined via well-defined, clean interfaces. However, it seems that this principle is completely ignored from a customer/product standpoint -- the "interface" in this relationship is the clear definition of the use of the product, so leaving this interface unattended to basically obfuscates great functionality behind a convoluted interface. Its perfectly fine if others see it differently -- I'd guess most probably do. Its just as I reflect on the curve incurred to convert to maven, it was more steep and unexpected than originally thought, not because of complexity, but more because of the hunt for answers, and subsequent trial and error And additionally, I'm getting similar feedback from others I know who are attempting to use Maven. But again, the Megere book, though I haven't been able to read it all yet, it looks to be a really good resource. Brad Chas Douglass wrote: I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I thought it was time to jump in. Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work. THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind description. After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret, but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out there is more documentation?). Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret. So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build applications. THE DESIGN PROBLEMS But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some serious consideration. MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH. It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most of this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me. Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download and compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp plugin), but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file? You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Uh, I guess so. ;-) I did mean "he". Sorry, I was up late last night playing Civilization IV. (I really need to lock my Dell up in a drawer.) I shouldn't touch a keyboard lest I break something. -K, off to bed On 5/25/06 6:40 PM, "Lee Meador" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Uh .. when HE made an error. Is that another test? > > On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> I actually meant scpexe. "I was just testing you," as my ex-father in law >> would say when I made an error. >> >> -K >> >> >> On 5/25/06 5:45 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> Yes you use the maven-proxy to serve the internal repository. >>> >>> What do you mean my sshext? >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes, it helps, as does Daniel Kulp's message. You don't need to proxy >> your inhouse repo, but you can just to simplify things. My issue is that I'm at a university, where I don't have a developer intranet for my team, so my inhouse repo is accessed via sshext for >> access control reasons. If my VPN were smarter I could use Apache's access control mechanisms >> to restrict access to the team, but it's pretty limited. If access control were easier to delegate I maybe could use Shibboleth >> or something. (I manage Shibboleth for our campus.) -K On 5/25/06 5:11 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well you wouldnt. > > The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are > hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means > that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed, > after they have been downloaded by the proxy. > > Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store > all the jar that you produce and want to share between your > development team. > > Does that help? > > Ben > > On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-) >> >> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic >> there. >> >> -K >> >> >> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K >>> >>> >>> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Kathryn The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads >> it once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the >> next programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much >> faster. Ben On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks, that worked. > > Is the general opinion that each developer should set up >> maven-proxy on > their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If >> it's > on > my > local machine I can use standalone. > > -K > > > On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Kathryn. >> >> You need to add the following to your settings.xml. >> >> >> central >> Internal Mirror >> http://url.to.your.proxy >> local-proxy >> >> >> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy >> for >> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have >> the >> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or >> other remote repositries. >> >> Ben >> >> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team >> doesn't >>> have >>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I >> need to >>> have >>> this on 80/443). >>> >>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and >>> edited >>> the >>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations. >>> >>> What now? >>> >>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work? >>> >>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time >>> codehaus >>> or >>> ibiblio is down I can get work done? >>> >>> -K >>> >>> >>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own >> recommendations: 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central rep
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Uh .. when HE made an error. Is that another test? On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I actually meant scpexe. "I was just testing you," as my ex-father in law would say when I made an error. -K On 5/25/06 5:45 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes you use the maven-proxy to serve the internal repository. > > What do you mean my sshext? > > Ben > > On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Yes, it helps, as does Daniel Kulp's message. You don't need to proxy your >> inhouse repo, but you can just to simplify things. >> >> My issue is that I'm at a university, where I don't have a developer >> intranet for my team, so my inhouse repo is accessed via sshext for access >> control reasons. >> >> If my VPN were smarter I could use Apache's access control mechanisms to >> restrict access to the team, but it's pretty limited. >> >> If access control were easier to delegate I maybe could use Shibboleth or >> something. (I manage Shibboleth for our campus.) >> >> -K >> >> >> On 5/25/06 5:11 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> Well you wouldnt. >>> >>> The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are >>> hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means >>> that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed, >>> after they have been downloaded by the proxy. >>> >>> Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store >>> all the jar that you produce and want to share between your >>> development team. >>> >>> Does that help? >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-) Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there. -K On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K > > > On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Kathryn >> >> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the >> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it >> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next >> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster. >> >> Ben >> >> >> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Thanks, that worked. >>> >>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on >>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's >>> on >>> my >>> local machine I can use standalone. >>> >>> -K >>> >>> >>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Kathryn. You need to add the following to your settings.xml. central Internal Mirror http://url.to.your.proxy local-proxy When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or other remote repositries. Ben On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't > have > control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to > have > this on 80/443). > > I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and > edited > the > WEB_ROOT to be my local locations. > > What now? > > What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work? > > And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time > codehaus > or > ibiblio is down I can get work done? > > -K > > > On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations: >> >> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you >> can >> switch to >>a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is >> not >> that >> hard ;-) >>check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel >> free >> to >> ping us for help >> >> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source >> and >> post fix the version >>with svn revision number. For example, if I need a >> feature/bug >> fix >> in maven-assembly-plugin >>version 2.2-snapshot, then I
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
I actually meant scpexe. "I was just testing you," as my ex-father in law
would say when I made an error.
-K
On 5/25/06 5:45 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes you use the maven-proxy to serve the internal repository.
>
> What do you mean my sshext?
>
> Ben
>
> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Yes, it helps, as does Daniel Kulp's message. You don't need to proxy your
>> inhouse repo, but you can just to simplify things.
>>
>> My issue is that I'm at a university, where I don't have a developer
>> intranet for my team, so my inhouse repo is accessed via sshext for access
>> control reasons.
>>
>> If my VPN were smarter I could use Apache's access control mechanisms to
>> restrict access to the team, but it's pretty limited.
>>
>> If access control were easier to delegate I maybe could use Shibboleth or
>> something. (I manage Shibboleth for our campus.)
>>
>> -K
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06 5:11 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Well you wouldnt.
>>>
>>> The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are
>>> hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means
>>> that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed,
>>> after they have been downloaded by the proxy.
>>>
>>> Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store
>>> all the jar that you produce and want to share between your
>>> development team.
>>>
>>> Does that help?
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
-K
On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
>
>
> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Kathryn
>>
>> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
>> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
>> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next
>> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Thanks, that worked.
>>>
>>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
>>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's
>>> on
>>> my
>>> local machine I can use standalone.
>>>
>>> -K
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
Kathryn.
You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
central
Internal Mirror
http://url.to.your.proxy
local-proxy
When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
other remote repositries.
Ben
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't
> have
> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to
> have
> this on 80/443).
>
> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and
> edited
> the
> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
>
> What now?
>
> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
>
> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time
> codehaus
> or
> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
>
> -K
>
>
> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>>
>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you
>> can
>> switch to
>>a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is
>> not
>> that
>> hard ;-)
>>check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel
>> free
>> to
>> ping us for help
>>
>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source
>> and
>> post fix the version
>>with svn revision number. For example, if I need a
>> feature/bug
>> fix
>> in maven-assembly-plugin
>>version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and
>> deploy
>> to
>>
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Yes you use the maven-proxy to serve the internal repository.
What do you mean my sshext?
Ben
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yes, it helps, as does Daniel Kulp's message. You don't need to proxy your
inhouse repo, but you can just to simplify things.
My issue is that I'm at a university, where I don't have a developer
intranet for my team, so my inhouse repo is accessed via sshext for access
control reasons.
If my VPN were smarter I could use Apache's access control mechanisms to
restrict access to the team, but it's pretty limited.
If access control were easier to delegate I maybe could use Shibboleth or
something. (I manage Shibboleth for our campus.)
-K
On 5/25/06 5:11 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well you wouldnt.
>
> The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are
> hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means
> that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed,
> after they have been downloaded by the proxy.
>
> Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store
> all the jar that you produce and want to share between your
> development team.
>
> Does that help?
>
> Ben
>
> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
>>
>> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
>>
>> -K
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
Kathryn
The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next
programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster.
Ben
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks, that worked.
>
> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's on
> my
> local machine I can use standalone.
>
> -K
>
>
> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Kathryn.
>>
>> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
>>
>>
>> central
>> Internal Mirror
>> http://url.to.your.proxy
>> local-proxy
>>
>>
>> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
>> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
>> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
>> other remote repositries.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
>>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to
>>> have
>>> this on 80/443).
>>>
>>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited
>>> the
>>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
>>>
>>> What now?
>>>
>>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
>>>
>>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus
>>> or
>>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
>>>
>>> -K
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you
can
switch to
a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not
that
hard ;-)
check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel
free
to
ping us for help
2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source
and
post fix the version
with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug
fix
in maven-assembly-plugin
version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and
deploy
to
your
internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
project'poms.
This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to
go
to maven-proxy to look
for daily update.
This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and
I
have gone thru
Hope it helps
-D
>>>
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
I think it help. The good thing about two existing known maven-proxies (codehaus maven-proxy and Proximity) is that they're actually 2in1 solutions. They are NOT strictly a proxy as a HTTP proxy. The are just ABLE to behave like http proxy (or the logic that drives them is similar to HTTP proxy). They are also fully functional when it comes to repository hosting too. And you have extras: fast searching, access management, etc. My practice with Proximity is following: define proxied repo for central, codehaus, etc... define LOCAL (so not proxied reposes) like inhouse, etc. Proxy storages are handled ONLY BY Proximity. And PUBLISH local proxy storages using standard ways (ftp, sftp, sambe, nfs...) and make your developers DEPLOY onto them using Maven2 itself! In case of a commercial project, it should be right in the superpom where is the deployment area, etc... In our house, we use JDS2* with well defined paths and URLs. On POM creation a developer knowing the project ID of project (this ID is used in paths, URLs, mailing list names, etc something like SourceForge project id) can write complete POM almost out of his head. And it's easier to maintain (one application in company does proxying and hosting) - one backup - one thing less to worry. Some WIKI scratch that tries to define JDS2 and what it should be. https://is-micro.myip.hu/trac/ismicro-jds2 ~t~ On 5/26/06, ben short <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well you wouldnt. The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed, after they have been downloaded by the proxy. Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store all the jar that you produce and want to share between your development team. Does that help? Ben
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Yes, it helps, as does Daniel Kulp's message. You don't need to proxy your
inhouse repo, but you can just to simplify things.
My issue is that I'm at a university, where I don't have a developer
intranet for my team, so my inhouse repo is accessed via sshext for access
control reasons.
If my VPN were smarter I could use Apache's access control mechanisms to
restrict access to the team, but it's pretty limited.
If access control were easier to delegate I maybe could use Shibboleth or
something. (I manage Shibboleth for our campus.)
-K
On 5/25/06 5:11 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well you wouldnt.
>
> The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are
> hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means
> that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed,
> after they have been downloaded by the proxy.
>
> Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store
> all the jar that you produce and want to share between your
> development team.
>
> Does that help?
>
> Ben
>
> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
>>
>> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
>>
>> -K
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
Kathryn
The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next
programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster.
Ben
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks, that worked.
>
> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's on
> my
> local machine I can use standalone.
>
> -K
>
>
> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Kathryn.
>>
>> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
>>
>>
>> central
>> Internal Mirror
>> http://url.to.your.proxy
>> local-proxy
>>
>>
>> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
>> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
>> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
>> other remote repositries.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
>>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to
>>> have
>>> this on 80/443).
>>>
>>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited
>>> the
>>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
>>>
>>> What now?
>>>
>>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
>>>
>>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus
>>> or
>>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
>>>
>>> -K
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you
can
switch to
a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not
that
hard ;-)
check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel
free
to
ping us for help
2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source
and
post fix the version
with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug
fix
in maven-assembly-plugin
version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and
deploy
to
your
internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
project'poms.
This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to
go
to maven-proxy to look
for daily update.
This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and
I
have gone thru
Hope it helps
-D
On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I really liked the idea
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Well, we actually use maven-proxy to host the inhouse repository.
Basically, we have it configured with repo.local.store pointing to the
actual repository dir and repo.list empty. Thus, it just serves up
what's in the dir.
The main reason we did that was for the search capabilities. A developer
can point at the repository URL and execute a search. Works quite well
when it gets large.Keeps people from having to log into the machine
and running a "find". It also means the "UI" is exactly the same for
the proxied content as the non-proxied content.
That said, we DO use maven-proxies at our other remote sites to proxy the
inhouse repository. That's just a performance enhancement though. The
VPN between the sites isn't always very good.
Enjoy!
Dan
On Thursday 25 May 2006 18:01, Kathryn Huxtable wrote:
> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
>
> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
>
> -K
>
> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
> >
> > On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Kathryn
> >>
> >> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
> >> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
> >> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the
> >> next programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much
> >> faster.
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> Thanks, that worked.
> >>>
> >>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up
> >>> maven-proxy on their own machine, or have one proxy site for an
> >>> organization? If it's on my local machine I can use standalone.
> >>>
> >>> -K
> >>>
> >>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kathryn.
>
> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
>
>
> central
> Internal Mirror
> http://url.to.your.proxy
> local-proxy
>
>
> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy
> for the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt
> have the requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio,
> codehaus or other remote repositries.
>
> Ben
>
> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team
> > doesn't have control over the firewall settings for our web
> > servers, so I need to have this on 80/443).
> >
> > I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and
> > edited the
> > WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
> >
> > What now?
> >
> > What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
> >
> > And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time
> > codehaus or
> > ibiblio is down I can get work done?
> >
> > -K
> >
> > On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own
> >> recommendations:
> >>
> >> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is
> >> down, you can switch to
> >>a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy
> >> is not that
> >> hard ;-)
> >>check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion.
> >> Feel free to
> >> ping us for help
> >>
> >> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the
> >> source and post fix the version
> >>with svn revision number. For example, if I need a
> >> feature/bug fix
> >> in maven-assembly-plugin
> >>version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision}
> >> and deploy to
> >> your
> >>internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
> >>
> >> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by
> >> your project'poms.
> >>This get your team's build much faster since it does not
> >> have to go
> >> to maven-proxy to look
> >>for daily update.
> >>
> >> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that
> >> others and I have gone thru
> >>
> >> Hope it helps
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and
> >>> when a fellow developer used it successfully to build a small
> >>> library for me, I thought it was time to jump in.
> >>>
> >>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on
> >>> my project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into
> >>> 7 Maven pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
> >>>
> >>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
> >>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is,
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Well you wouldnt.
The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are
hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means
that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed,
after they have been downloaded by the proxy.
Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store
all the jar that you produce and want to share between your
development team.
Does that help?
Ben
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
-K
On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
>
>
> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Kathryn
>>
>> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
>> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
>> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next
>> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Thanks, that worked.
>>>
>>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
>>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's on my
>>> local machine I can use standalone.
>>>
>>> -K
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
Kathryn.
You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
central
Internal Mirror
http://url.to.your.proxy
local-proxy
When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
other remote repositries.
Ben
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to have
> this on 80/443).
>
> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited
> the
> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
>
> What now?
>
> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
>
> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus
> or
> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
>
> -K
>
>
> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>>
>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
>> switch to
>>a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not
>> that
>> hard ;-)
>>check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free
>> to
>> ping us for help
>>
>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
>> post fix the version
>>with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug
>> fix
>> in maven-assembly-plugin
>>version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy
>> to
>> your
>>internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>>
>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
>> project'poms.
>>This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to
>> go
>> to maven-proxy to look
>>for daily update.
>>
>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
>> have gone thru
>>
>> Hope it helps
>>
>> -D
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
>>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I
>>> thought it was time to jump in.
>>>
>>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
>>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
>>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
>>>
>>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
>>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
>>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
>>> description.
>>>
>>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
>>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
>>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
>>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
>>> there is more documentation?).
>>>
>>> Of course, the
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Inhouse repo, if you look at Proximity is very important to achieve stable and controlled build environment. If you have some company level (reaches through more separate projects) some-utility.jar, how will you spread it amongst developers? How will you achieve if some-utility.jar is updated, to update all developer environment too? Will everybody issue "maven install:install-file"? They could :) Publish it on the inhouse repo and done. Every developer will acess your artifact as they access for example log4j. See here https://is-micro.myip.hu/projects/ismicro-commons/proximity/ ~t~ On 5/26/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-) Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there. -K
Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
-K
On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
>
>
> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Kathryn
>>
>> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
>> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
>> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next
>> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Thanks, that worked.
>>>
>>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
>>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's on my
>>> local machine I can use standalone.
>>>
>>> -K
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
Kathryn.
You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
central
Internal Mirror
http://url.to.your.proxy
local-proxy
When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
other remote repositries.
Ben
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to have
> this on 80/443).
>
> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited
> the
> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
>
> What now?
>
> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
>
> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus
> or
> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
>
> -K
>
>
> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>>
>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
>> switch to
>>a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not
>> that
>> hard ;-)
>>check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free
>> to
>> ping us for help
>>
>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
>> post fix the version
>>with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug
>> fix
>> in maven-assembly-plugin
>>version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy
>> to
>> your
>>internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>>
>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
>> project'poms.
>>This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to
>> go
>> to maven-proxy to look
>>for daily update.
>>
>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
>> have gone thru
>>
>> Hope it helps
>>
>> -D
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
>>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I
>>> thought it was time to jump in.
>>>
>>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
>>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
>>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
>>>
>>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
>>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
>>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
>>> description.
>>>
>>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
>>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
>>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
>>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
>>> there is more documentation?).
>>>
>>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released
>>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
>>>
>>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
>>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
>>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
>>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I
>>> S
Re: Rant (very long)
In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kathryn
>
> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next
> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster.
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Thanks, that worked.
>>
>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's on my
>> local machine I can use standalone.
>>
>> -K
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Kathryn.
>>>
>>> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
>>>
>>>
>>> central
>>> Internal Mirror
>>> http://url.to.your.proxy
>>> local-proxy
>>>
>>>
>>> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
>>> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
>>> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
>>> other remote repositries.
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to have
this on 80/443).
I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited the
WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
What now?
What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus or
ibiblio is down I can get work done?
-K
On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>
> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
> switch to
>a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not
> that
> hard ;-)
>check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free
> to
> ping us for help
>
> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
> post fix the version
>with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug fix
> in maven-assembly-plugin
>version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy
> to
> your
>internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>
> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
> project'poms.
>This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to go
> to maven-proxy to look
>for daily update.
>
> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
> have gone thru
>
> Hope it helps
>
> -D
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I
>> thought it was time to jump in.
>>
>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
>>
>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
>> description.
>>
>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
>> there is more documentation?).
>>
>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released
>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
>>
>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I
>> SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's
>> list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building
>> the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
>> applications.
>>
>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
>>
Re: Rant (very long)
Kathryn
The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next
programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster.
Ben
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks, that worked.
Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's on my
local machine I can use standalone.
-K
On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kathryn.
>
> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
>
>
> central
> Internal Mirror
> http://url.to.your.proxy
> local-proxy
>
>
> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
> other remote repositries.
>
> Ben
>
> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to have
>> this on 80/443).
>>
>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited the
>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
>>
>> What now?
>>
>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
>>
>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus or
>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
>>
>> -K
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>>>
>>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
>>> switch to
>>>a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not that
>>> hard ;-)
>>>check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free to
>>> ping us for help
>>>
>>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
>>> post fix the version
>>>with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug fix
>>> in maven-assembly-plugin
>>>version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy to
>>> your
>>>internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>>>
>>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
>>> project'poms.
>>>This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to go
>>> to maven-proxy to look
>>>for daily update.
>>>
>>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
>>> have gone thru
>>>
>>> Hope it helps
>>>
>>> -D
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I
thought it was time to jump in.
Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
description.
After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
"secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
there is more documentation?).
Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released
yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I
SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's
list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building
the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
applications.
THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
serious consideration.
MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds
this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY
that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more com
Re: Rant (very long)
Thanks, that worked.
Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's on my
local machine I can use standalone.
-K
On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kathryn.
>
> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
>
>
> central
> Internal Mirror
> http://url.to.your.proxy
> local-proxy
>
>
> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
> other remote repositries.
>
> Ben
>
> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to have
>> this on 80/443).
>>
>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited the
>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
>>
>> What now?
>>
>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
>>
>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus or
>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
>>
>> -K
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>>>
>>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
>>> switch to
>>>a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not that
>>> hard ;-)
>>>check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free to
>>> ping us for help
>>>
>>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
>>> post fix the version
>>>with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug fix
>>> in maven-assembly-plugin
>>>version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy to
>>> your
>>>internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>>>
>>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
>>> project'poms.
>>>This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to go
>>> to maven-proxy to look
>>>for daily update.
>>>
>>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
>>> have gone thru
>>>
>>> Hope it helps
>>>
>>> -D
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I
thought it was time to jump in.
Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
description.
After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
"secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
there is more documentation?).
Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released
yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I
SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's
list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building
the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
applications.
THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
serious consideration.
MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds
this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY
that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most of
this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download and
compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp plugin),
but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
Re: Rant (very long)
Kathryn.
You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
central
Internal Mirror
http://url.to.your.proxy
local-proxy
When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
other remote repositries.
Ben
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to have
this on 80/443).
I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited the
WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
What now?
What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus or
ibiblio is down I can get work done?
-K
On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>
> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
> switch to
>a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not that
> hard ;-)
>check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free to
> ping us for help
>
> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
> post fix the version
>with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug fix
> in maven-assembly-plugin
>version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy to
> your
>internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>
> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
> project'poms.
>This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to go
> to maven-proxy to look
>for daily update.
>
> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
> have gone thru
>
> Hope it helps
>
> -D
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I
>> thought it was time to jump in.
>>
>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
>>
>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
>> description.
>>
>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
>> there is more documentation?).
>>
>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released
>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
>>
>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I
>> SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's
>> list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building
>> the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
>> applications.
>>
>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
>> serious consideration.
>>
>>MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
>>
>> It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds
>> this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY
>> that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
>> world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
>> complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most of
>> this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
>>
>> Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download and
>> compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp plugin),
>> but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
>>
>> You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to
>> make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it
>> does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target
>> audience developers?
>>
>> I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is a
>> bad thing.
>>
>> I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration
>> file is used to document
Re: Rant (very long)
Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to have
this on 80/443).
I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited the
WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
What now?
What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus or
ibiblio is down I can get work done?
-K
On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>
> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
> switch to
>a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not that
> hard ;-)
>check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free to
> ping us for help
>
> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
> post fix the version
>with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug fix
> in maven-assembly-plugin
>version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy to
> your
>internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>
> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
> project'poms.
>This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to go
> to maven-proxy to look
>for daily update.
>
> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
> have gone thru
>
> Hope it helps
>
> -D
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I
>> thought it was time to jump in.
>>
>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
>>
>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
>> description.
>>
>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
>> there is more documentation?).
>>
>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released
>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
>>
>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I
>> SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's
>> list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building
>> the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
>> applications.
>>
>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
>> serious consideration.
>>
>>MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
>>
>> It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds
>> this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY
>> that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
>> world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
>> complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most of
>> this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
>>
>> Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download and
>> compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp plugin),
>> but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
>>
>> You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to
>> make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it
>> does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target
>> audience developers?
>>
>> I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is a
>> bad thing.
>>
>> I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration
>> file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening to
>> see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing.
>>
>> An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I simply
>> search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5". No. I have
>> to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets this
>> value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet have any
>> plugins configuration).
>>
>> THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
>> I think the second major desig
Re: Rant (very long)
2. He means, download a given plugin's code from the public repo,
build it yourself, and deploy it into your own corporate repo with a
real version. Don't use snapshots.
3. Again (I believe) he is just talking about locking down versions.
Wayne
On 5/25/06, Adam Hardy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dan,
Can you elaborate a little on your point (2)? What do you specify as a
dependency or plugin version for a particular revision that you deployed
on your internal repo?
For (3), do you mean specifying a version number, or something more?
Regards
Adam
-Original Message-
From: dan tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 May 2006 17:51
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Re: Rant (very long)
2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source
and post fix the version with svn revision number. For example, if I
need a feature/bug fix in maven-assembly-plugin version 2.2-snapshot,
then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy to your internal repository
that can serve by maven-proxy.
3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
project'poms. This get your team's build much faster since it does not
have to go to maven-proxy to look for daily update.
-
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RE: Rant (very long)
Dan,
Can you elaborate a little on your point (2)? What do you specify as a
dependency or plugin version for a particular revision that you deployed
on your internal repo?
For (3), do you mean specifying a version number, or something more?
Regards
Adam
-Original Message-
From: dan tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 May 2006 17:51
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Re: Rant (very long)
2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source
and post fix the version with svn revision number. For example, if I
need a feature/bug fix in maven-assembly-plugin version 2.2-snapshot,
then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy to your internal repository
that can serve by maven-proxy.
3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
project'poms. This get your team's build much faster since it does not
have to go to maven-proxy to look for daily update.
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Re: Rant (very long)
Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
switch to
a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not that
hard ;-)
check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free to
ping us for help
2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
post fix the version
with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug fix
in maven-assembly-plugin
version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy to
your
internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
project'poms.
This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to go
to maven-proxy to look
for daily update.
This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
have gone thru
Hope it helps
-D
On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I
thought it was time to jump in.
Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
description.
After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
"secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
there is more documentation?).
Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released
yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I
SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's
list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building
the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
applications.
THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
serious consideration.
MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds
this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY
that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most of
this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download and
compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp plugin),
but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to
make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it
does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target
audience developers?
I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is a
bad thing.
I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration
file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening to
see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing.
An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I simply
search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5". No. I have
to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets this
value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet have any
plugins configuration).
THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
I think the second major design problem is the central repository. As
evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a
single-point-of-failure that is simply unacceptable in real world build
situations.
Not only does it represent a single-point-of-failure, it's not frozen.
I could never see my company using Maven unless we set up our own
version of the repository, and probably only if we used it exclusively,
since we require complete build reproducibility. Relying on an external
organization to not make "secret" updates (as has been recently
discussed) is simply unacceptable. I haven't tried to set up a
"central" repository, but from scanning messages on the user's list, it
sounds somewhat less than well defined.
Personally (for open-source projects), I can probably use it, but there
is going to be a nagging suspicion
Re: Rant (very long)
Your experience is not singular. Try Maven 1; many of us still use it while M2 is hardened and more plugins completed. Quoting Chas Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a > fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I > thought it was time to jump in. > > Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my > project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven > pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work. > > THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS > To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to > developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind > description. > > After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on > the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a > "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret, > but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out > there is more documentation?). > > Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released > yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret. > > So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased > and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a > number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a > release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I > SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's > list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building > the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build > applications. > > THE DESIGN PROBLEMS > But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some > serious consideration. > > MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH. > > It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds > this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY > that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real > world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more > complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most of > this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me. > > Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download and > compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp plugin), > but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file? > > You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to > make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it > does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target > audience developers? > > I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is a > bad thing. > > I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration > file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening to > see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing. > > An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I simply > search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5". No. I have > to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets this > value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet have any > plugins configuration). > > THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM > I think the second major design problem is the central repository. As > evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a > single-point-of-failure that is simply unacceptable in real world build > situations. > > Not only does it represent a single-point-of-failure, it's not frozen. > I could never see my company using Maven unless we set up our own > version of the repository, and probably only if we used it exclusively, > since we require complete build reproducibility. Relying on an external > organization to not make "secret" updates (as has been recently > discussed) is simply unacceptable. I haven't tried to set up a > "central" repository, but from scanning messages on the user's list, it > sounds somewhat less than well defined. > > Personally (for open-source projects), I can probably use it, but there > is going to be a nagging suspicion when something breaks. > > So, for small users it represents a roadblock when the repository is > unavailable, and for large users it represents a reproducibility problem. > > CONCLUSION: > I think Maven is just "not ready for prime time". I really want to like > it. I think there are some great ideas, and clearly some really smart > people working on it. > > I hope this rant can be taken constructively. I want projects like this > to succeed, I really do. > > And, please, I understand I'm one person. This is MY view of attempting > to use Maven to build MY projects. Perhaps I'm just not the target > audience. Perhaps I'm just out in left field. Perhaps I've just missed > the point completely. > > Ch
Rant (very long)
I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I thought it was time to jump in. Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work. THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind description. After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret, but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out there is more documentation?). Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret. So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build applications. THE DESIGN PROBLEMS But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some serious consideration. MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH. It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most of this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me. Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download and compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp plugin), but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file? You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target audience developers? I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is a bad thing. I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening to see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing. An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I simply search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5". No. I have to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets this value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet have any plugins configuration). THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM I think the second major design problem is the central repository. As evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a single-point-of-failure that is simply unacceptable in real world build situations. Not only does it represent a single-point-of-failure, it's not frozen. I could never see my company using Maven unless we set up our own version of the repository, and probably only if we used it exclusively, since we require complete build reproducibility. Relying on an external organization to not make "secret" updates (as has been recently discussed) is simply unacceptable. I haven't tried to set up a "central" repository, but from scanning messages on the user's list, it sounds somewhat less than well defined. Personally (for open-source projects), I can probably use it, but there is going to be a nagging suspicion when something breaks. So, for small users it represents a roadblock when the repository is unavailable, and for large users it represents a reproducibility problem. CONCLUSION: I think Maven is just "not ready for prime time". I really want to like it. I think there are some great ideas, and clearly some really smart people working on it. I hope this rant can be taken constructively. I want projects like this to succeed, I really do. And, please, I understand I'm one person. This is MY view of attempting to use Maven to build MY projects. Perhaps I'm just not the target audience. Perhaps I'm just out in left field. Perhaps I've just missed the point completely. Chas Douglass - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
