Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Koen Bok]

Versions 1.0.4 Beta

Hey everyone,

A lot of people have been eager to get their hands on Versions with
the Subversion libraries 1.6. We've been building and testing this
over the last month, but we discovered some issues that kept us back
from releasing it to the public. The biggest one is the leaking of
processes when using Subversion over SSH (1). So we decided to do a
public beta in the group, both to let the people who know what they
are doing get their hands on it, and to determine whether it's ready
for the big public.

If you run into any problems, particularly when you use this build
with the Subversion 1.6 libraries, please post about it here and we
can figure out any remaining issues together.

Thanks!

Koen Bok - madebysofa.com

Get it here: http://cdn.versionsapp.com/Versions_1.0.4b_63.zip

(1) http://lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2009/Mar/msg00443.html

Note: Enabling Subversion 1.6 will upgrade your working copies. To
downgrade again you will have to make a new checkout.

Release Notes:

Versions 1.0.4b (Build 62) - April 27 2009

- Added Subversion 1.6 support (version 1.6.1)
- Upgraded Subversion 1.5 libraries to version 1.5.6
- Added support for authentication using SASL
- Fixed diffing with BBEdit
- Sorting files by name in the Browse view now works like it does in
the Finder
- Bookmarks are now also sorted correctly when accented characters are
present in their names
- Fixed a crash that occurred when the subversion config file contains
errors that prevent it from being parsed correctly
- Added an option to start Versions in “Verbose mode” to log all
errors to the Console
- An alert is now shown when there are problems retrieving or saving
passwords from the Keychain. When it's not convenient to show an
alert, the error is logged to the Console instead
- Fixed an issue that was causing crash report windows to show up when
Versions had not crashed
- Added a “Quit Now” button to the “Waiting for transactions to
finish...” window
- Fixed bugs in registration that occured in very specific scenarios
- Updated the Help documentation with an FAQ page
- Made the column for revision numbers wider
- Various other small improvements
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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[TheDO]

Exciting development, but should I assume this is only a stop-gap
measure to keep the v1.6 people at bay? It's been a long time for what
seems to be a minor upgrade for those of us not yet using 1.6. I'm
happy with Versions in its current state, but would like to see some
improvements to the interface, which you've stated you're working on
(ie. the Commit sheet).

Using Subversion 1.5.6, I did a commit of some changed files, and got
an error that I've never seen before.

[Apr 27, 13:22:58] Commit failed (details follow): No such transaction

When I returned to Versions v1.0.3 and tried the same commit, I
couldn't do the commit, but rather had to do an Update, at which point
it merged the changes into my local files. Weird.

~Ted



On Apr 27, 1:08 pm, Koen Bok  wrote:
> Versions 1.0.4 Beta
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> A lot of people have been eager to get their hands on Versions with
> the Subversion libraries 1.6. We've been building and testing this
> over the last month, but we discovered some issues that kept us back
> from releasing it to the public. The biggest one is the leaking of
> processes when using Subversion over SSH (1). So we decided to do a
> public beta in the group, both to let the people who know what they
> are doing get their hands on it, and to determine whether it's ready
> for the big public.
>
> If you run into any problems, particularly when you use this build
> with the Subversion 1.6 libraries, please post about it here and we
> can figure out any remaining issues together.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Koen Bok - madebysofa.com
>
> Get it here:http://cdn.versionsapp.com/Versions_1.0.4b_63.zip
>
> (1)http://lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2009/Mar/msg00443.html
>
> Note: Enabling Subversion 1.6 will upgrade your working copies. To
> downgrade again you will have to make a new checkout.
>
> Release Notes:
>
> Versions 1.0.4b (Build 62) - April 27 2009
>
> - Added Subversion 1.6 support (version 1.6.1)
> - Upgraded Subversion 1.5 libraries to version 1.5.6
> - Added support for authentication using SASL
> - Fixed diffing with BBEdit
> - Sorting files by name in the Browse view now works like it does in
> the Finder
> - Bookmarks are now also sorted correctly when accented characters are
> present in their names
> - Fixed a crash that occurred when the subversion config file contains
> errors that prevent it from being parsed correctly
> - Added an option to start Versions in “Verbose mode” to log all
> errors to the Console
> - An alert is now shown when there are problems retrieving or saving
> passwords from the Keychain. When it's not convenient to show an
> alert, the error is logged to the Console instead
> - Fixed an issue that was causing crash report windows to show up when
> Versions had not crashed
> - Added a “Quit Now” button to the “Waiting for transactions to
> finish...” window
> - Fixed bugs in registration that occured in very specific scenarios
> - Updated the Help documentation with an FAQ page
> - Made the column for revision numbers wider
> - Various other small improvements
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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Koen Bok]

Hey Ted,

Exactly. Although these 1.6 issues are eating more time then we would
like :-/

- Koen

On Apr 27, 10:30 pm, TheDO  wrote:
> Exciting development, but should I assume this is only a stop-gap
> measure to keep the v1.6 people at bay? It's been a long time for what
> seems to be a minor upgrade for those of us not yet using 1.6. I'm
> happy with Versions in its current state, but would like to see some
> improvements to the interface, which you've stated you're working on
> (ie. the Commit sheet).
>
> Using Subversion 1.5.6, I did a commit of some changed files, and got
> an error that I've never seen before.
>
> [Apr 27, 13:22:58] Commit failed (details follow): No such transaction
>
> When I returned to Versions v1.0.3 and tried the same commit, I
> couldn't do the commit, but rather had to do an Update, at which point
> it merged the changes into my local files. Weird.
>
> ~Ted
>
> On Apr 27, 1:08 pm, Koen Bok  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Versions 1.0.4 Beta
>
> > Hey everyone,
>
> > A lot of people have been eager to get their hands on Versions with
> > the Subversion libraries 1.6. We've been building and testing this
> > over the last month, but we discovered some issues that kept us back
> > from releasing it to the public. The biggest one is the leaking of
> > processes when using Subversion over SSH (1). So we decided to do a
> > public beta in the group, both to let the people who know what they
> > are doing get their hands on it, and to determine whether it's ready
> > for the big public.
>
> > If you run into any problems, particularly when you use this build
> > with the Subversion 1.6 libraries, please post about it here and we
> > can figure out any remaining issues together.
>
> > Thanks!
>
> > Koen Bok - madebysofa.com
>
> > Get it here:http://cdn.versionsapp.com/Versions_1.0.4b_63.zip
>
> > (1)http://lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2009/Mar/msg00443.html
>
> > Note: Enabling Subversion 1.6 will upgrade your working copies. To
> > downgrade again you will have to make a new checkout.
>
> > Release Notes:
>
> > Versions 1.0.4b (Build 62) - April 27 2009
>
> > - Added Subversion 1.6 support (version 1.6.1)
> > - Upgraded Subversion 1.5 libraries to version 1.5.6
> > - Added support for authentication using SASL
> > - Fixed diffing with BBEdit
> > - Sorting files by name in the Browse view now works like it does in
> > the Finder
> > - Bookmarks are now also sorted correctly when accented characters are
> > present in their names
> > - Fixed a crash that occurred when the subversion config file contains
> > errors that prevent it from being parsed correctly
> > - Added an option to start Versions in “Verbose mode” to log all
> > errors to the Console
> > - An alert is now shown when there are problems retrieving or saving
> > passwords from the Keychain. When it's not convenient to show an
> > alert, the error is logged to the Console instead
> > - Fixed an issue that was causing crash report windows to show up when
> > Versions had not crashed
> > - Added a “Quit Now” button to the “Waiting for transactions to
> > finish...” window
> > - Fixed bugs in registration that occured in very specific scenarios
> > - Updated the Help documentation with an FAQ page
> > - Made the column for revision numbers wider
> > - Various other small improvements
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[WalleniuM]

hi :)
is it possible to translate versionapp? i could translate it to
german...

On 27 Apr., 22:36, Koen Bok  wrote:
> Hey Ted,
>
> Exactly. Although these 1.6 issues are eating more time then we would
> like :-/
>
> - Koen
>
> On Apr 27, 10:30 pm, TheDO  wrote:
>
> > Exciting development, but should I assume this is only a stop-gap
> > measure to keep the v1.6 people at bay? It's been a long time for what
> > seems to be a minor upgrade for those of us not yet using 1.6. I'm
> > happy with Versions in its current state, but would like to see some
> > improvements to the interface, which you've stated you're working on
> > (ie. the Commit sheet).
>
> > Using Subversion 1.5.6, I did a commit of some changed files, and got
> > an error that I've never seen before.
>
> > [Apr 27, 13:22:58] Commit failed (details follow): No such transaction
>
> > When I returned to Versions v1.0.3 and tried the same commit, I
> > couldn't do the commit, but rather had to do an Update, at which point
> > it merged the changes into my local files. Weird.
>
> > ~Ted
>
> > On Apr 27, 1:08 pm, Koen Bok  wrote:
>
> > > Versions 1.0.4 Beta
>
> > > Hey everyone,
>
> > > A lot of people have been eager to get their hands on Versions with
> > > the Subversion libraries 1.6. We've been building and testing this
> > > over the last month, but we discovered some issues that kept us back
> > > from releasing it to the public. The biggest one is the leaking of
> > > processes when using Subversion over SSH (1). So we decided to do a
> > > public beta in the group, both to let the people who know what they
> > > are doing get their hands on it, and to determine whether it's ready
> > > for the big public.
>
> > > If you run into any problems, particularly when you use this build
> > > with the Subversion 1.6 libraries, please post about it here and we
> > > can figure out any remaining issues together.
>
> > > Thanks!
>
> > > Koen Bok - madebysofa.com
>
> > > Get it here:http://cdn.versionsapp.com/Versions_1.0.4b_63.zip
>
> > > (1)http://lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2009/Mar/msg00443.html
>
> > > Note: Enabling Subversion 1.6 will upgrade your working copies. To
> > > downgrade again you will have to make a new checkout.
>
> > > Release Notes:
>
> > > Versions 1.0.4b (Build 62) - April 27 2009
>
> > > - Added Subversion 1.6 support (version 1.6.1)
> > > - Upgraded Subversion 1.5 libraries to version 1.5.6
> > > - Added support for authentication using SASL
> > > - Fixed diffing with BBEdit
> > > - Sorting files by name in the Browse view now works like it does in
> > > the Finder
> > > - Bookmarks are now also sorted correctly when accented characters are
> > > present in their names
> > > - Fixed a crash that occurred when the subversion config file contains
> > > errors that prevent it from being parsed correctly
> > > - Added an option to start Versions in “Verbose mode” to log all
> > > errors to the Console
> > > - An alert is now shown when there are problems retrieving or saving
> > > passwords from the Keychain. When it's not convenient to show an
> > > alert, the error is logged to the Console instead
> > > - Fixed an issue that was causing crash report windows to show up when
> > > Versions had not crashed
> > > - Added a “Quit Now” button to the “Waiting for transactions to
> > > finish...” window
> > > - Fixed bugs in registration that occured in very specific scenarios
> > > - Updated the Help documentation with an FAQ page
> > > - Made the column for revision numbers wider
> > > - Various other small improvements
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Quinn Taylor]

The devs seem to have done a pretty decent job of breaking the app  
into a number of .nib files, and there is a resource for localized  
strings, but my first impression is that a bit more behind-the-scenes  
work remains to be done before localization can take place in earnest.  
Not only does everything in the app have to use localized strings, but  
it generally makes synchronizing changes much easier when the UI has  
settled down sufficiently. From the way the devs are describing their  
pending changes, my guess is that localization will come, but it will  
be much better if it comes after the major changes as yet in store.  :-)


 - Quinn

PS — João, I'd offer my services at Portuguese translation when the  
time comes, but you're much more adept than I. Perhaps if you do a pt- 
br localization I can help get the minor details right?  Not that  
Portugal Portuguese is "wrong", just different like English in the UK  
and USA.  :-)



On Apr 27, 2009, at 3:09 PM, WalleniuM wrote:



hi :)
is it possible to translate versionapp? i could translate it to
german...

On 27 Apr., 22:36, Koen Bok  wrote:

Hey Ted,

Exactly. Although these 1.6 issues are eating more time then we would
like :-/

- Koen

On Apr 27, 10:30 pm, TheDO  wrote:


Exciting development, but should I assume this is only a stop-gap
measure to keep the v1.6 people at bay? It's been a long time for  
what

seems to be a minor upgrade for those of us not yet using 1.6. I'm
happy with Versions in its current state, but would like to see some
improvements to the interface, which you've stated you're working on
(ie. the Commit sheet).


Using Subversion 1.5.6, I did a commit of some changed files, and  
got

an error that I've never seen before.


[Apr 27, 13:22:58] Commit failed (details follow): No such  
transaction



When I returned to Versions v1.0.3 and tried the same commit, I
couldn't do the commit, but rather had to do an Update, at which  
point

it merged the changes into my local files. Weird.



~Ted



On Apr 27, 1:08 pm, Koen Bok  wrote:



Versions 1.0.4 Beta



Hey everyone,



A lot of people have been eager to get their hands on Versions with
the Subversion libraries 1.6. We've been building and testing this
over the last month, but we discovered some issues that kept us  
back

from releasing it to the public. The biggest one is the leaking of
processes when using Subversion over SSH (1). So we decided to do a
public beta in the group, both to let the people who know what they
are doing get their hands on it, and to determine whether it's  
ready

for the big public.



If you run into any problems, particularly when you use this build
with the Subversion 1.6 libraries, please post about it here and we
can figure out any remaining issues together.



Thanks!



Koen Bok - madebysofa.com



Get it here:http://cdn.versionsapp.com/Versions_1.0.4b_63.zip



(1)http://lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2009/Mar/msg00443.html



Note: Enabling Subversion 1.6 will upgrade your working copies. To
downgrade again you will have to make a new checkout.



Release Notes:



Versions 1.0.4b (Build 62) - April 27 2009



- Added Subversion 1.6 support (version 1.6.1)
- Upgraded Subversion 1.5 libraries to version 1.5.6
- Added support for authentication using SASL
- Fixed diffing with BBEdit
- Sorting files by name in the Browse view now works like it does  
in

the Finder
- Bookmarks are now also sorted correctly when accented  
characters are

present in their names
- Fixed a crash that occurred when the subversion config file  
contains

errors that prevent it from being parsed correctly
- Added an option to start Versions in “Verbose mode” to log all
errors to the Console
- An alert is now shown when there are problems retrieving or  
saving

passwords from the Keychain. When it's not convenient to show an
alert, the error is logged to the Console instead
- Fixed an issue that was causing crash report windows to show up  
when

Versions had not crashed
- Added a “Quit Now” button to the “Waiting for transactions to
finish...” window
- Fixed bugs in registration that occured in very specific  
scenarios

- Updated the Help documentation with an FAQ page
- Made the column for revision numbers wider
- Various other small improvements

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smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[CodeWarrior]

To PT-BR, i'm here too!

Obrigado.

--
The Future Begins Today




Em 27/04/2009, às 19:41, Quinn Taylor escreveu:

> The devs seem to have done a pretty decent job of breaking the app  
> into a number of .nib files, and there is a resource for localized  
> strings, but my first impression is that a bit more behind-the- 
> scenes work remains to be done before localization can take place in  
> earnest. Not only does everything in the app have to use localized  
> strings, but it generally makes synchronizing changes much easier  
> when the UI has settled down sufficiently. From the way the devs are  
> describing their pending changes, my guess is that localization will  
> come, but it will be much better if it comes after the major changes  
> as yet in store.  :-)
>
> - Quinn
>
> PS — João, I'd offer my services at Portuguese translation when the  
> time comes, but you're much more adept than I. Perhaps if you do a  
> pt-br localization I can help get the minor details right?  Not that  
> Portugal Portuguese is "wrong", just different like English in the  
> UK and USA.  :-)
>
>
> On Apr 27, 2009, at 3:09 PM, WalleniuM wrote:
>
>>
>> hi :)
>> is it possible to translate versionapp? i could translate it to
>> german...
>>
>> On 27 Apr., 22:36, Koen Bok  wrote:
>>> Hey Ted,
>>>
>>> Exactly. Although these 1.6 issues are eating more time then we  
>>> would
>>> like :-/
>>>
>>> - Koen
>>>
>>> On Apr 27, 10:30 pm, TheDO  wrote:
>>>
 Exciting development, but should I assume this is only a stop-gap
 measure to keep the v1.6 people at bay? It's been a long time for  
 what
 seems to be a minor upgrade for those of us not yet using 1.6. I'm
 happy with Versions in its current state, but would like to see  
 some
 improvements to the interface, which you've stated you're working  
 on
 (ie. the Commit sheet).
>>>
 Using Subversion 1.5.6, I did a commit of some changed files, and  
 got
 an error that I've never seen before.
>>>
 [Apr 27, 13:22:58] Commit failed (details follow): No such  
 transaction
>>>
 When I returned to Versions v1.0.3 and tried the same commit, I
 couldn't do the commit, but rather had to do an Update, at which  
 point
 it merged the changes into my local files. Weird.
>>>
 ~Ted
>>>
 On Apr 27, 1:08 pm, Koen Bok  wrote:
>>>
> Versions 1.0.4 Beta
>>>
> Hey everyone,
>>>
> A lot of people have been eager to get their hands on Versions  
> with
> the Subversion libraries 1.6. We've been building and testing this
> over the last month, but we discovered some issues that kept us  
> back
> from releasing it to the public. The biggest one is the leaking of
> processes when using Subversion over SSH (1). So we decided to  
> do a
> public beta in the group, both to let the people who know what  
> they
> are doing get their hands on it, and to determine whether it's  
> ready
> for the big public.
>>>
> If you run into any problems, particularly when you use this build
> with the Subversion 1.6 libraries, please post about it here and  
> we
> can figure out any remaining issues together.
>>>
> Thanks!
>>>
> Koen Bok - madebysofa.com
>>>
> Get it here:http://cdn.versionsapp.com/Versions_1.0.4b_63.zip
>>>
> (1)http://lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2009/Mar/msg00443.html
>>>
> Note: Enabling Subversion 1.6 will upgrade your working copies. To
> downgrade again you will have to make a new checkout.
>>>
> Release Notes:
>>>
> Versions 1.0.4b (Build 62) - April 27 2009
>>>
> - Added Subversion 1.6 support (version 1.6.1)
> - Upgraded Subversion 1.5 libraries to version 1.5.6
> - Added support for authentication using SASL
> - Fixed diffing with BBEdit
> - Sorting files by name in the Browse view now works like it  
> does in
> the Finder
> - Bookmarks are now also sorted correctly when accented  
> characters are
> present in their names
> - Fixed a crash that occurred when the subversion config file  
> contains
> errors that prevent it from being parsed correctly
> - Added an option to start Versions in “Verbose mode” to log all
> errors to the Console
> - An alert is now shown when there are problems retrieving or  
> saving
> passwords from the Keychain. When it's not convenient to show an
> alert, the error is logged to the Console instead
> - Fixed an issue that was causing crash report windows to show  
> up when
> Versions had not crashed
> - Added a “Quit Now” button to the “Waiting for transactions to
> finish...” window
> - Fixed bugs in registration that occured in very specific  
> scenarios
> - Updated the Help documentation with an FAQ page
> - Made the column for revision numbers wider
> - Various other small improvements
>> >>
>


--~--~-~--~~~---

Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Alberto Ganesh Barbati]

On 27 Apr, 22:36, Koen Bok  wrote:
>
> Exactly. Although these 1.6 issues are eating more time then we would
> like :-/
>

Up to version 1.0.3 you always released at least one version a month.
Now almost five months have passed since then and you come out with a
beta with a very unimpressive list of changes. You are blaming SVN 1.6
about that, while you apparently started to work on it reluctantly and
only after significant pressure from the user base in the last month.
With all due respect, I am a bit worried. I am happy with Versions,
but I am starting to wonder whether significant development is still
ongoing or it has already reached "maintenance mode".

Ganesh

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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Dirk Stoop]

Dear Ganesh,

I understand that we might send out mixed signals by engaging in some
conversations, but not openly discussing all of our plans.  The below
is not meant as an attack on what you just posted, but as a
clarification of our point of view to whomever is interested in it.
I've tried to keep this concise, sorry in advance for failing at
that. ;)

The purpose of this google group, from our perspective, is to provide
a forum for people who use Versions to have an open dialogue with each
other and with us.

People in our development team will primarily post to this group when
they feel they are most suited to address a question or concern posted
here.  The community of Versions users is immensely important to us,
but Versions is not an open source project.  Our primary
responsibility – one we take very seriously – is to provide you all
with an application that is *and continues to be* a pleasure to use.
Listening to concerns, engaging in dialogue about where Versions is
headed, and continuously improving the app are all part of that
responsibility.  Providing a detailed account of what we are working
on and when exactly we plan to ship the fruits of our labor is not.

It is understandable when someone mistakes our silence about what
exactly we are working on for an indication that we are not working on
anything, but it is kind of a stretch.  Remember Versions 1.0?  We
added a bunch of new features in that release (Auto-refresh, change
badges, Info pane, etc.) that we had not discussed anywhere in public
before.  That's more or less indicative of how we, and a bunch of
other commercial software companies work:  We listen to feedback,
engage in conversation, then lock ourselves up in our offices to come
up with the best way to mix a variety of feature requests with the
direction we want to take the application into, and when we have
something to show for that work, we show it.

Work on SVN 1.6 support started as soon as 1.6 was – in our opinion –
stable enough to actually start work on integrating it, quite a while
before people started asking about it over here.  There was no
reluctancy in working out how to integrate 1.6 in Versions, only
reluctancy in knowingly releasing a new build of Versions that
introduced significant new problems – the ones Koen described in his
post that started this thread – all of which are directly due to
issues in SVN 1.6.  Releasing an update to Versions that includes SVN
1.6 will result in a lot of people who don't necessarily need 1.6
right now to switch from 1.5 to 1.6, simply because it's the "latest
and greatest" and it's just a click away.

We prefer not to release broken things, hence the reluctancy to just
ship it and the 'solution' of posting a beta here.  There's no such
thing as "for people to use at their own risk" when your business
relies to a large extent on people recommending your products to
others, but by only posting the build here, at least people who get it
will know where to come to learn more about any problems they might
run into.

I don't agree with, but respect your opinion that the changes in
1.0.4b are underwhelming.  It's a 1.0.x update, not a 1.x update, so
yes, it is intended as a maintenance release, one that focusses on
fixing bugs.  Like we mentioned before on several occasions in this
group, we are working on new features and bigger improvements too.
For this release, taking care of a bunch of annoying bugs was more
important to us, because those prevent people from using the
application for its advertised purpose and feature set.  Of the two
ways we could make Versions more useful, we chose to prioritize on
reliability first, new features are great too, but they had to wait.

Please keep telling us what you expect from us, especially when you
feel that we're not living up to it.

I hope I've given a bit more insight in how we work.

Thanks and sorry again for the rant :)
- Dirk

On Apr 28, 8:41 am, Alberto Ganesh Barbati 
wrote:
> On 27 Apr, 22:36, Koen Bok  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Exactly. Although these 1.6 issues are eating more time then we would
> > like :-/
>
> Up to version 1.0.3 you always released at least one version a month.
> Now almost five months have passed since then and you come out with a
> beta with a very unimpressive list of changes. You are blaming SVN 1.6
> about that, while you apparently started to work on it reluctantly and
> only after significant pressure from the user base in the last month.
> With all due respect, I am a bit worried. I am happy with Versions,
> but I am starting to wonder whether significant development is still
> ongoing or it has already reached "maintenance mode".
>
> Ganesh
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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Robert Kosara]

TL;DR
;)

But seriously, that was interesting. I understand that you don't want to
discuss what you're working on, but it can still be frustrating not to hear
anything for a long time. Look at it this way: we care enough about this
product that we want to know what's going to happen next, to the point that
some of us start complaining ;)

Some other developers have a blog where they don't directly discuss what
they're working on, but what kinds of issues they encounter, etc. So if you
write about "problems you might encounter when trying to interoperate with
svn 1.6" (or even issues when switching using the command-line tools),
that's not directly saying "it's coming" or "we'll release it on April 29th
at 5pm EDT" - it just means you're looking into it, and it feeds people's
hunger for information.

Same with new features. Maybe you have a cryptic sketch, or you tried
something that turned out not to work so well; when you post those, you give
people something to look at without giving away what's really coming.


Robert

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Dirk Stoop  wrote:

>
> Dear Ganesh,
>
> I understand that we might send out mixed signals by engaging in some
> conversations, but not openly discussing all of our plans.  The below
> is not meant as an attack on what you just posted, but as a
> clarification of our point of view to whomever is interested in it.
> I've tried to keep this concise, sorry in advance for failing at
> that. ;)
>
> The purpose of this google group, from our perspective, is to provide
> a forum for people who use Versions to have an open dialogue with each
> other and with us.
>
> People in our development team will primarily post to this group when
> they feel they are most suited to address a question or concern posted
> here.  The community of Versions users is immensely important to us,
> but Versions is not an open source project.  Our primary
> responsibility – one we take very seriously – is to provide you all
> with an application that is *and continues to be* a pleasure to use.
> Listening to concerns, engaging in dialogue about where Versions is
> headed, and continuously improving the app are all part of that
> responsibility.  Providing a detailed account of what we are working
> on and when exactly we plan to ship the fruits of our labor is not.
>
> It is understandable when someone mistakes our silence about what
> exactly we are working on for an indication that we are not working on
> anything, but it is kind of a stretch.  Remember Versions 1.0?  We
> added a bunch of new features in that release (Auto-refresh, change
> badges, Info pane, etc.) that we had not discussed anywhere in public
> before.  That's more or less indicative of how we, and a bunch of
> other commercial software companies work:  We listen to feedback,
> engage in conversation, then lock ourselves up in our offices to come
> up with the best way to mix a variety of feature requests with the
> direction we want to take the application into, and when we have
> something to show for that work, we show it.
>
> Work on SVN 1.6 support started as soon as 1.6 was – in our opinion –
> stable enough to actually start work on integrating it, quite a while
> before people started asking about it over here.  There was no
> reluctancy in working out how to integrate 1.6 in Versions, only
> reluctancy in knowingly releasing a new build of Versions that
> introduced significant new problems – the ones Koen described in his
> post that started this thread – all of which are directly due to
> issues in SVN 1.6.  Releasing an update to Versions that includes SVN
> 1.6 will result in a lot of people who don't necessarily need 1.6
> right now to switch from 1.5 to 1.6, simply because it's the "latest
> and greatest" and it's just a click away.
>
> We prefer not to release broken things, hence the reluctancy to just
> ship it and the 'solution' of posting a beta here.  There's no such
> thing as "for people to use at their own risk" when your business
> relies to a large extent on people recommending your products to
> others, but by only posting the build here, at least people who get it
> will know where to come to learn more about any problems they might
> run into.
>
> I don't agree with, but respect your opinion that the changes in
> 1.0.4b are underwhelming.  It's a 1.0.x update, not a 1.x update, so
> yes, it is intended as a maintenance release, one that focusses on
> fixing bugs.  Like we mentioned before on several occasions in this
> group, we are working on new features and bigger improvements too.
> For this release, taking care of a bunch of annoying bugs was more
> important to us, because those prevent people from using the
> application for its advertised purpose and feature set.  Of the two
> ways we could make Versions more useful, we chose to prioritize on
> reliability first, new features are great too, but they had to wait.
>
> Please keep telling us what you expect from us, especially when 

Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Alberto Ganesh Barbati]

Dirk,

I bought Versions in December, around the time 1.0.3 has been
released, so I didn't follow what happened before. One thing I know is
that one of the reasons I chosed Versions was that there had been
several significant updates in the six previous months, showing that
the software was very alive and actively maintained. But since I
bought it, no more updates. Even if you started working on SVN 1.6 as
soon as it was released, it's still four months (from December to
March) without updates. That's why I'm worried.

Just my opinion,

Ganesh

PS: and I just had to do a merge from the command line...

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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Dirk Stoop]

Hey Robert,

We'd love to blog about stuff like that; there are plenty of good
reasons to do so: it satisfies people's curiosity, it sends out a
clear signal that you care about your products and the people who use
them, and on top of that, it's good marketing by doing both the above
and driving traffic to your product website.

The only downside is that it takes a lot of time to author good
content.  I'd love to publish more, and we probably should.  We've had
good intentions to do so ever since we started Sofa, but somehow
there's almost always something on the to-do list that seems more
important.  We've been pushing ourselves recently to write more on the
Sofa blog, and I'm sure Versions-related stuff will come up every now
and then over there.

So, aside from saying that you're completely right and that we'll try
to write more about what's going on: no promises. ;)

- Dirk

On Apr 28, 2:42 pm, Robert Kosara  wrote:
> TL;DR
> ;)
>
> But seriously, that was interesting. I understand that you don't want to
> discuss what you're working on, but it can still be frustrating not to hear
> anything for a long time. Look at it this way: we care enough about this
> product that we want to know what's going to happen next, to the point that
> some of us start complaining ;)
>
> Some other developers have a blog where they don't directly discuss what
> they're working on, but what kinds of issues they encounter, etc. So if you
> write about "problems you might encounter when trying to interoperate with
> svn 1.6" (or even issues when switching using the command-line tools),
> that's not directly saying "it's coming" or "we'll release it on April 29th
> at 5pm EDT" - it just means you're looking into it, and it feeds people's
> hunger for information.
>
> Same with new features. Maybe you have a cryptic sketch, or you tried
> something that turned out not to work so well; when you post those, you give
> people something to look at without giving away what's really coming.
>
> Robert
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Dirk Stoop  wrote:
>
> > Dear Ganesh,
>
> > I understand that we might send out mixed signals by engaging in some
> > conversations, but not openly discussing all of our plans.  The below
> > is not meant as an attack on what you just posted, but as a
> > clarification of our point of view to whomever is interested in it.
> > I've tried to keep this concise, sorry in advance for failing at
> > that. ;)
>
> > The purpose of this google group, from our perspective, is to provide
> > a forum for people who use Versions to have an open dialogue with each
> > other and with us.
>
> > People in our development team will primarily post to this group when
> > they feel they are most suited to address a question or concern posted
> > here.  The community of Versions users is immensely important to us,
> > but Versions is not an open source project.  Our primary
> > responsibility – one we take very seriously – is to provide you all
> > with an application that is *and continues to be* a pleasure to use.
> > Listening to concerns, engaging in dialogue about where Versions is
> > headed, and continuously improving the app are all part of that
> > responsibility.  Providing a detailed account of what we are working
> > on and when exactly we plan to ship the fruits of our labor is not.
>
> > It is understandable when someone mistakes our silence about what
> > exactly we are working on for an indication that we are not working on
> > anything, but it is kind of a stretch.  Remember Versions 1.0?  We
> > added a bunch of new features in that release (Auto-refresh, change
> > badges, Info pane, etc.) that we had not discussed anywhere in public
> > before.  That's more or less indicative of how we, and a bunch of
> > other commercial software companies work:  We listen to feedback,
> > engage in conversation, then lock ourselves up in our offices to come
> > up with the best way to mix a variety of feature requests with the
> > direction we want to take the application into, and when we have
> > something to show for that work, we show it.
>
> > Work on SVN 1.6 support started as soon as 1.6 was – in our opinion –
> > stable enough to actually start work on integrating it, quite a while
> > before people started asking about it over here.  There was no
> > reluctancy in working out how to integrate 1.6 in Versions, only
> > reluctancy in knowingly releasing a new build of Versions that
> > introduced significant new problems – the ones Koen described in his
> > post that started this thread – all of which are directly due to
> > issues in SVN 1.6.  Releasing an update to Versions that includes SVN
> > 1.6 will result in a lot of people who don't necessarily need 1.6
> > right now to switch from 1.5 to 1.6, simply because it's the "latest
> > and greatest" and it's just a click away.
>
> > We prefer not to release broken things, hence the reluctancy to just
> > ship it and the 'solution' of posting a beta here.  

Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Dirk Stoop]

Hi Ganesh,

I understand, and appreciate that you're taking the time to express
your worries. :)

All I can really add to what I said before is: don't worry, Versions
is being developed very actively.

Cheers,
- Dirk

On Apr 28, 3:49 pm, Alberto Ganesh Barbati 
wrote:
> Dirk,
>
> I bought Versions in December, around the time 1.0.3 has been
> released, so I didn't follow what happened before. One thing I know is
> that one of the reasons I chosed Versions was that there had been
> several significant updates in the six previous months, showing that
> the software was very alive and actively maintained. But since I
> bought it, no more updates. Even if you started working on SVN 1.6 as
> soon as it was released, it's still four months (from December to
> March) without updates. That's why I'm worried.
>
> Just my opinion,
>
> Ganesh
>
> PS: and I just had to do a merge from the command line...
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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[eggli]

I haven't tried the beta yet, but the release notes looks like a bit
vague, did you guys fixed the CJKS bug I reported in March 24?

Here's the link:

http://groups.google.com/group/versions/browse_thread/thread/53002594777e2660/2f887b3dbe28272c?lnk=gst&q=CJKS#2f887b3dbe28272c
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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Cristobal Dabed]

Haven't experienced any bugs yet, works fine on my machine running
svn, version 1.6.0 (r36650).
Commited and Checked out several projects without any issue, will post
bugs in case i run into any.

Thanks for the beta version :)

On Apr 27, 10:08 pm, Koen Bok  wrote:
> Versions 1.0.4 Beta
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> A lot of people have been eager to get their hands on Versions with
> the Subversion libraries 1.6. We've been building and testing this
> over the last month, but we discovered some issues that kept us back
> from releasing it to the public. The biggest one is the leaking of
> processes when using Subversion over SSH (1). So we decided to do a
> public beta in the group, both to let the people who know what they
> are doing get their hands on it, and to determine whether it's ready
> for the big public.
>
> If you run into any problems, particularly when you use this build
> with the Subversion 1.6 libraries, please post about it here and we
> can figure out any remaining issues together.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Koen Bok - madebysofa.com
>
> Get it here:http://cdn.versionsapp.com/Versions_1.0.4b_63.zip
>
> (1)http://lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2009/Mar/msg00443.html
>
> Note: Enabling Subversion 1.6 will upgrade your working copies. To
> downgrade again you will have to make a new checkout.
>
> Release Notes:
>
> Versions 1.0.4b (Build 62) - April 27 2009
>
> - Added Subversion 1.6 support (version 1.6.1)
> - Upgraded Subversion 1.5 libraries to version 1.5.6
> - Added support for authentication using SASL
> - Fixed diffing with BBEdit
> - Sorting files by name in the Browse view now works like it does in
> the Finder
> - Bookmarks are now also sorted correctly when accented characters are
> present in their names
> - Fixed a crash that occurred when the subversion config file contains
> errors that prevent it from being parsed correctly
> - Added an option to start Versions in “Verbose mode” to log all
> errors to the Console
> - An alert is now shown when there are problems retrieving or saving
> passwords from the Keychain. When it's not convenient to show an
> alert, the error is logged to the Console instead
> - Fixed an issue that was causing crash report windows to show up when
> Versions had not crashed
> - Added a “Quit Now” button to the “Waiting for transactions to
> finish...” window
> - Fixed bugs in registration that occured in very specific scenarios
> - Updated the Help documentation with an FAQ page
> - Made the column for revision numbers wider
> - Various other small improvements
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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[mzch]

+1 @WalleniuM

I'm waiting for Japanese localization of Versions. I tried translation
into japanese by myself.
But I cannot absolutely translate some words and strings because there
are not those strings
in language nibs. if the developer relocate such words and strings in
language nibs,
I can start to translate Versions in Japanese right now!

Is it possible for the developer to be localizable Versions after
releasing 1.0.4?

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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[João Pavão]

Hey guys,

We're releasing the second beta of Versions 1.0.4 today. It includes a
fix for the process starvation issue caused by zombie ssh processes
being left behind by subversion. Please report any new or persisting
problems to this thread.

Versions 1.0.4b2 (Build 64) - May 4 2009

Release Notes:
- Patched subversion 1.6.1 to avoid leaving zombie ssh processes
behind when accessing svn+ssh repositories.

Download from 

Thanks!
--
João
the Versions team

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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Stableboy]

Not sure where you want the beta feedback to go, but the 1.0.4b2_64
build is working just fine for me, I'm using 1.6 repositories.

On May 4, 12:50 pm, João Pavão  wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> We're releasing the second beta of Versions 1.0.4 today. It includes a
> fix for the process starvation issue caused by zombie ssh processes
> being left behind by subversion. Please report any new or persisting
> problems to this thread.
>
> Versions 1.0.4b2 (Build 64) - May 4 2009
>
> Release Notes:
> - Patched subversion 1.6.1 to avoid leaving zombie ssh processes
> behind when accessing svn+ssh repositories.
>
> Download from 
>
> Thanks!
> --
> João
> the Versions team

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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Cristobal Dabed]

Been using beta2 with subversion 1.6.1 since the without any issues.
Thanks for development and the availability of this beta.

- Cristobal

On May 4, 9:50 pm, João Pavão  wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> We're releasing the second beta of Versions 1.0.4 today. It includes a
> fix for the process starvation issue caused by zombie ssh processes
> being left behind by subversion. Please report any new or persisting
> problems to this thread.
>
> Versions 1.0.4b2 (Build 64) - May 4 2009
>
> Release Notes:
> - Patched subversion 1.6.1 to avoid leaving zombie ssh processes
> behind when accessing svn+ssh repositories.
>
> Download from 
>
> Thanks!
> --
> João
> the Versions team
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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[Shmaff]

Hi Versions Team,

I'm very interested in your product. I've tried it as a Trial in the
past and it seemed to work great! I've been away from subversion for
some time now and I've realized that beanstalkapp.com is upgrading to
subversion 1.5.5 across all repositories on May 20th. I'm just curious
to know which release of Versions is most suitable to that
environment. I ask this only because I'm having difficulty finding the
specific date as to when subversion 1.5.5 was released. Somewhere
between Dec. 22 2008 and Jan 2009? I see that the latest public
release of Versions was "VERSION 1.0.3 (BUILD 56) - DECEMBER 2 2008"
as published on your website. Should I press on with 1.04b2?

Regards,
Alex

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Re: Versions 1.0.4 Beta (Subversion 1.6 support)

[TheDO]

Generally, the version on the server is not crucially important,
unless you want to take advantage of features in a particular version.
If the server is running v1.5.5, you can still use a client in v1.4.6
mode, for example. The latest version of Subversion is v1.6 and only
the beta version of Versions supports that. The current stable release
gives you v1.4.6 or v1.5.4.

/TheDO/



On May 16, 2:49 pm, Shmaff  wrote:
> Hi Versions Team,
>
> I'm very interested in your product. I've tried it as a Trial in the
> past and it seemed to work great! I've been away from subversion for
> some time now and I've realized that beanstalkapp.com is upgrading to
> subversion 1.5.5 across all repositories on May 20th. I'm just curious
> to know which release of Versions is most suitable to that
> environment. I ask this only because I'm having difficulty finding the
> specific date as to when subversion 1.5.5 was released. Somewhere
> between Dec. 22 2008 and Jan 2009? I see that the latest public
> release of Versions was "VERSION 1.0.3 (BUILD 56) - DECEMBER 2 2008"
> as published on your website. Should I press on with 1.04b2?
>
> Regards,
> Alex

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